What you may not know about Chick-fil-A

[OS Butch]

I was sent this story about anti-gay stance of Chick-fil-A. I was surprised, but I guess I should have known, since they are closed on Sundays.
So, I thought I would pass it on here. I will not support this establishment. Kinda reminds me of the boycott of orange juice and Anita Bryant. The difference for me is she, Anita Bryant, was just a spokesperson, this is a corporate view.

Link to Chick-fli-A (http://news.change.org/stories/yes-chick-fil-a-says-we-explicitly-do-not-like-same-sex-couples)

Jo

[durrrrrrrr]

I didnt know about this until Oiler41 told me about it this past summer. I hardly ever went to Chick-fil-a before I was told about this. but i dont go at all since I heard about it.

[Apocalipstic]

I knew they were ultra religious. Just one more reason not to go there. UGH.

[SmoothButch]

I've known about this for awhile now. Ever since I found out several months ago I stopped patronizing their business 100%.

I'll take my gay money elsewhere when I want fast food.

[Greyson]

I have never heard of this business until today. I don't think they have any out here on the West Coast.

[PinkieLee]

NOooooooo... don't take away my chicken minis or my waffle fries! :blink:

I saw that people have been posting about this on facebook for awhile now. I kinda figured with them being closed on Sundays that their views were pretty conservative/religious anyway... so their anti gay stance doesn't shock me at all.

I know a few people that have worked for Chick fil A here locally for 10+ years now. They've always said it's been the best fast food company to work for. Then again, they aren't gay....

[MsTinkerbelly]

I have never heard of this business until today. I don't think they have any out here on the West Coast.

I'm in Southern California and they have them all over here. They just built a new one smack dab in the middle of Lakewood. We haven't patronized the stores since we found out about the views of the owner and the places to which he gives his monetary support. His choice to do as he pleases, our choice to take our gay dollars elsewhere.

[OS Butch]

This company is opening new places here in Northern Virginia and in Maryland. A friend of mine posted on her wall. I shared it on my wall. I knew they were closed on Sundays and since I remember back in the day when blue laws in Virginia existed, I didn't really pay attention to it. Needless to say, I am paying attention now and will spend my dollars elsewhere.

[lyric]

Well, that sucks. And I never did think that chicken patties and pickles went together very well.

[Vlasta]

I very seldom eat in a fast food places , but my son does . I need to let him know since he was raised by two mothers . Thanks for posting this info .

[Dude]

A gay man I met in Texas was hired there.
They told him after working 3 hours that
he was bad for buisness and his kind was not a good fit.

This man had a decade of waiter experience.
He was very hurt by them and desperately needed a job.
They are fucked up and wrong.

[atomiczombie]

I have known this about Chick-fil-A for a long time. I have never been to one because I don't eat fast food, but my cousin take her kids there to eat all the time and I have tried to talk to her about it. I think she is uncomfortable because she supports gay rights, but still likes Chick-fil-A for her picky kids. :/

[Strappie]

I never heard of the joint till last week when some dude got pissed cause the Chick was stealing his shirts....

I found out we have one here by the University.

I had to read a little more here to figure out why they would be closed on Sunday 's cause they don't like the gays... ahhh I quickly found out "it's a Religious" thing.

Personally I think more businesses should be closed on Sunday. We really do need a day of "rest".... (I don't need a day of praying)

Well they are getting the free publicity out of all the chatter every where you turn...


I guess we can't get everyone to like us because of our color, our looks, our sexual preferences and so on....

People will chose to go or not go!

[BBinNYC]

I know that you can find fault with many different companies. Some treat women badly or have horrible working conditions, etc.

But I really think Chick-fil-A is in a different category. The profits from the business get funneled directly to far Right Wing organizations that are actively working to stop the advancement of LGBT rights. It's almost like the business exists so it can make money for this purpose.

Why contribute to your own oppression by eating there?

[Strappie]

I know that you can find fault with many different companies. Some treat women badly or have horrible working conditions, etc.

But I really think Chick-fil-A is in a different category. The profits from the business get funneled directly to far Right Wing organizations that are actively working to stop the advancement of LGBT rights. It's almost like the business exists so it can make money for this purpose.

Why contribute to your own oppression by eating there?



See now that is some powerful news!!! Now it's totally different..

Good info BB

[MissItalianDiva]

Retouching on what BB has already said here. It is shocking to see the amount this company has actually contributed towards anti gay movements. Numbers don't lie and while I can't locate 2010's stats here is 2009. I can't stand the place even before this came out but this has me sickened. 2 million dollars is more than just a random amount given to any cause. If you read the article it is even more disturbing to see their choices of right wing groups they fund

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/01/chick-fil-a-donated-anti-gay-groups-2009_n_1069429.html

[DapperButch]

I was sent this story about anti-gay stance of Chick-fil-A. I was surprised, but I guess I should have known, since they are closed on Sundays.
So, I thought I would pass it on here. I will not support this establishment. Kinda reminds me of the boycott of orange juice and Anita Bryant. The difference for me is she, Anita Bryant, was just a spokesperson, this is a corporate view.

Link to Chick-fli-A (http://news.change.org/stories/yes-chick-fil-a-says-we-explicitly-do-not-like-same-sex-couples)

Jo

Yes, I knew about this...and damn do I miss those chicken sandwiches....:cluck:

[Zimmeh]

I must say, that I applied at Chik-Fil-A and was actually giving an interview. I decided not to persue the position because it was part time and I was looking for a full time job. I love the fact that they are closed on Sundays, and allow all of their employees a day to be with their family. I would rather go to Chik-Fil-A and pick up lunch, than McDonalds. I worked for a McDonalds while in college, and the place was very dirty and would promote a man over a woman, whether they were gay or straight and would not pay more than what minimum wage was. To this day, McDonalds is the same way and here is an article to prove my point: http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/lifestyle/news/mcdonalds-under-fire-for-anti-gay-sex-discrimination-slur/story-e6frf00r-1225710430656.

Everyone has their own opinion and I am voicing mine. I love to shop at Target and I also love the chicken sandwiches from Chik-Fil-A. I am also, a very proud lesbian and I have learned when to choose to fight and when to walk away with my mouth shut. I worked for Godiva back in 2008 and I had to call the ACLU on my old boss. To me, it was my boss who had the issue with me being gay, not the company.

Zimmeh

[Jett]

Chik-N-Shit-A... oh yeah, those guys

Uh uh....

[BBinNYC]

I must say, that I applied at Chik-Fil-A and was actually giving an interview. I decided not to persue the position because it was part time and I was looking for a full time job. I love the fact that they are closed on Sundays, and allow all of their employees a day to be with their family. I would rather go to Chik-Fil-A and pick up lunch, than McDonalds. I worked for a McDonalds while in college, and the place was very dirty and would promote a man over a woman, whether they were gay or straight and would not pay more than what minimum wage was. To this day, McDonalds is the same way and here is an article to prove my point: http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/lifestyle/news/mcdonalds-under-fire-for-anti-gay-sex-discrimination-slur/story-e6frf00r-1225710430656.

Everyone has their own opinion and I am voicing mine. I love to shop at Target and I also love the chicken sandwiches from Chik-Fil-A. I am also, a very proud lesbian and I have learned when to choose to fight and when to walk away with my mouth shut. I worked for Godiva back in 2008 and I had to call the ACLU on my old boss. To me, it was my boss who had the issue with me being gay, not the company.

Zimmeh

There is a difference between being a shitty employer (too many are) and using a high percentage of the profits from your growing business to fund extremist organizations that exist to block the rights of other people. Hard to feel good about patronizing this business when they've got your rights in their crosshairs. You might as well donate directly to Focus on the Family and eliminate the chik in the middle.

[BBinNYC]

One more point, and I'll come down off the soapbox....

In the article cited above about McDonald's, the anti-gay behavior was that of employees and not the corporation. In fact, the corporation agreed to provide diversity training to 30 Louisville area store managers as a means of settling the matter, implying that the fair treatment of LGBT customers was something they were committed to.

The comparison with Chick Fil A would only be helpful if McDonalds was donating millions of dollars to anti-gay organizations, which it is not.

Let me know, please, when Chick Fil A commits to LGBT diversity training. I won't hold my breath.

[Zimmeh]

Here is an article from January of this year in regards to Chik-Fil-A:

http://www.qsrweb.com/article/179061/Chick-fil-A-states-position-in-anti-gay-snafu

Zimmeh

[BugsAndKisses]

Chick fil a is so so sososososoososos Gross but I love their calendars!

[nycfem]

Not sure why you posted this article. Do you agree with what seems to be a defense of their position or disagree?

Here is an article from January of this year in regards to Chik-Fil-A:

http://www.qsrweb.com/article/179061/Chick-fil-A-states-position-in-anti-gay-snafu

Zimmeh

[Chancie]

Chick fil a is so so sososososoososos Gross but I love their calendars!

Did you read the thread before you posted?

[Queerasfck]

I'm really surprised more people haven't heard of Chick-fil-A and their policies. I thought both the company and their stance were more widely known.
There is only one location that I know of in San Diego and it's fairly new. I have never been there and would never give them my business.

[OS Butch]

Life filled with choices. I am not the most politically active person. I rarely watch the news, when they start airing the good news I might change. When someone takes time to show me that a company is on the anti gay side of things, I stop spending my dollars there, my choice. To this day I don't usually buy orange juice unless I have company over for breakfast.

My niece loves Chick-fil-A, I don't expect her to give it up, I probably won't even point it out to her. I know she supports gay rights and loves me just as I am....Really, I am unsure of why I feel that way, that it is OK for her to go but it isn't OK for me.....How odd...I will have to think on that for a bit

[OS Butch]

I love it when you get on a soapbox, dude! Thanks for pointing out that it should be shared here.

Jo

Btw BB, I have moved a bit away from my more conservative base...evolution happens, slow, but happens:)

One more point, and I'll come down off the soapbox....

In the article cited above about McDonald's, the anti-gay behavior was that of employees and not the corporation. In fact, the corporation agreed to provide diversity training to 30 Louisville area store managers as a means of settling the matter, implying that the fair treatment of LGBT customers was something they were committed to.

The comparison with Chick Fil A would only be helpful if McDonalds was donating millions of dollars to anti-gay organizations, which it is not.

Let me know, please, when Chick Fil A commits to LGBT diversity training. I won't hold my breath.

[QueenofSmirks]

I never heard of the joint till last week when some dude got pissed cause the Chick was stealing his shirts....

I found out we have one here by the University.

I had to read a little more here to figure out why they would be closed on Sunday 's cause they don't like the gays... ahhh I quickly found out "it's a Religious" thing.

Personally I think more businesses should be closed on Sunday. We really do need a day of "rest".... (I don't need a day of praying)

Well they are getting the free publicity out of all the chatter every where you turn...


I guess we can't get everyone to like us because of our color, our looks, our sexual preferences and so on....

People will chose to go or not go!


I don't want or need to them to "like" me. I just want them to stop spending millions of dollars to promote an anti-GLBT agenda.

[QueenofSmirks]

Everyone has their own opinion and I am voicing mine. I love to shop at Target and I also love the chicken sandwiches from Chik-Fil-A. I am also, a very proud lesbian and I have learned when to choose to fight and when to walk away with my mouth shut.


Zimmeh


I agree everyone has a right to their opinion, but I'm not sure how eating a chicken sandwich plays into choosing to fight or choosing to keep your mouth shut. Really? Giving up chicken sandwiches at Chik-fil-A is that much of a hardship that you'd rather support their business, which in turn supports an agenda against equal rights for you and anyone you know who is GLBT? I don't get it. I'm not trying to be shitty, I'm just trying to understand it.

[ruby_woo]

I've known about Chik-fil-a for awhile. I hate it, I freakin' love their sandwiches and used to always get one when I went back to visit family in Ohio. I've stopped going, and have been trying to recreate the recipe at home.

[Zimmeh]

I can honestly say, that I havent eat fast food in general since 2007. I only frequent a fast food restaurant, whether it's McDonald's or Chik Fil A when I forget my lunch at home. This equals to about once a month. I haven't had a Chik Fil A sandwich in over two months and I haven't had any form of meat in nearly two weeks. I have lost two jobs for being gay and I do believe we should have equal rights. As of November 21st, 2011; I am giving up meat products. I no longer will be patronizing any fast food restaurant. I am not trying to upset anyone and I apologize if I did.

Zimmeh

I agree everyone has a right to their opinion, but I'm not sure how eating a chicken sandwich plays into choosing to fight or choosing to keep your mouth shut. Really? Giving up chicken sandwiches at Chik-fil-A is that much of a hardship that you'd rather support their business, which in turn supports an agenda against equal rights for you and anyone you know who is GLBT? I don't get it. I'm not trying to be shitty, I'm just trying to understand it.

[Zimmeh]

I do not agree with what their private business matters. Again, if my posts have upset anyone, I apologize and I will not mention any place I shop at.

Zimmeh

Not sure why you posted this article. Do you agree with what seems to be a defense of their position or disagree?

[LesboNascarFan]

My niece posted this story on her facebook this morning.

I have never eaten at Chick Fil A and now because of this I won't be eating there.

[DapperButch]

I've known about Chik-fil-a for awhile. I hate it, I freakin' love their sandwiches and used to always get one when I went back to visit family in Ohio. I've stopped going, and have been trying to recreate the recipe at home.

Same here. Reminds me of going to my grandmother's house. They didn't have a restaurant in my area until the last couple of years. Which thrilled me. PLEASE let me know if you recreate the recipe. I miss those sandwiches! Bastards.

[MissItalianDiva]

Here is an article from January of this year in regards to Chik-Fil-A:

http://www.qsrweb.com/article/179061/Chick-fil-A-states-position-in-anti-gay-snafu

Zimmeh


I am having a hard time understanding the reason for this post. Do we really expect them to come out and say that they are anti gay marriage and equality...never going to happen. Actions speak louder than words. This is like expecting Herman Cain to admit he has engaged in the solicitation of prostitution and exploitation of marriage.

[ruby_woo]

Same here. Reminds me of going to my grandmother's house. They didn't have a restaurant in my area until the last couple of years. Which thrilled me. PLEASE let me know if you recreate the recipe. I miss those sandwiches! Bastards.

This recipe (http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/food-network-kitchens/almost-famous-chicken-sandwiches-recipe/index.html) is what I tried, although I didn't use the malted milk powder. It wasn't bad. Reading the comments, apparently some people marinated the chicken in pickle juice and it was really good, I might try that next time.

Also, not to sing the praises of McDonalds, but the Southern Fried Chicken Sandwich they have is a good knock off.

[DapperButch]

This recipe (http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/food-network-kitchens/almost-famous-chicken-sandwiches-recipe/index.html) is what I tried, although I didn't use the malted milk powder. It wasn't bad. Reading the comments, apparently some people marinated the chicken in pickle juice and it was really good, I might try that next time.

Also, not to sing the praises of McDonalds, but the Southern Fried Chicken Sandwich they have is a good knock off.

Thank you. I eat vegan most of the time for health reasons but sometimes cheat. I will be trying this recipe!

[MsTinkerbelly]

By msnbc.com staff
Chick-fil-A is apologizing for the “unthinking behavior” of an employee at a Southern California location who issued receipts labeled "Ching" and "Chong" to two customers of Asian descent.

The Georgia-based fast-food chicken restaurant chain says the employee was immediately fired after the customers complained to management.

"Honestly, it was just a young person doing something stupid," company spokesman Jerry Johnston told msnbc.com on Wednesday.

Two Asian-American students at University of California, Irvine, who ordered meals at a Chick-fil-A in Irvine said the cashier who took their order didn’t ask for their names. Instead, she typed “Ching” and “Chong,” respectively, on their receipts, according to Kelvin Lee, another UC Irvine student who said he is a friend of the customers. Lee posted a photo of the receipts on his Tumblr account.

In a statement published on Grub Street Los Angeles, the company said the manager quickly dealt with the complaint by firing the employee.

Here is the company’s statement:

Please understand and accept our confirmation that the inappropriate, and unthinking behavior of a young team member at one of our restaurants does not support any claim or even suggestion of racism at our restaurant. The individual clearly violated our operating standards; the matter was addressed and discussed immediately with the guests on the spot; and a confirmation was provided that the employee was immediately dismissed for the individual behavior.

Our Chick-fil-A restaurant Operators and their employees try very hard every day to actually go the extra mile in serving ALL of our customers with honor, dignity and respect. The circumstances here are a simply case of immaturity, failed judgment, and human error….it has nothing to do with the service and operational standards of our Chick-fil-A restaurants which are consistently rated at the highest level of service in the foodservice industry.”

Johnston said the incident is in no way a reflection of Chick-fil-A's views or valuies.

"Someone had a definite lack of judgment and did something very silly, very stupid. We immediately acted on it and took action," he said.

[Rockinonahigh]

We have a chick-fil-A in the big mall hear,I ate ther once but never again in thses many years,I love chicken but the food is awfull...so is subway.

[SmoothButch]

http://www.noh8campaign.com/article/boycott-chick-fil-a

On SATURDAY, JANUARY 21ST the NOH8 Campaign will set up our mobile studio at STUDIO 1444 in LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA -- once again offering LOS ANGELES supporters a chance to BE HEARD!

The photo shoot on SATURDAY is scheduled to begin at 11:00AM and end at 3:00PM.

[nycfem]

NEW RECORD: Chick-Fil-A Donated Almost $2 Million To Anti-Gay Groups In 2010

http://joemygod.blogspot.com/2012/07/new-record-chick-fil-donated-almost-2.html

[Soon]

"Well, guilty as charged. We are very much supportive of the family -- the biblical definition of the family unit. We are a family-owned business, a family-led business, and we are married to our first wives. We give God thanks for that. We intend to stay the course. We know that it might not be popular with everyone, but thank the Lord, we live in a country where we can share our values and operate on biblical principles." - Dan Cathy, CEO of Chick-Fil-A, when asked about the millions his company has donated to "family ministries." (Via Good As You)

[skeeter_01]

http://www.advocate.com/business/2012/07/17/chick-fil-coo-dan-cathy-officially-comes-out-antigay

on today's yahoo!pride...

[Soon]

"Well, guilty as charged. We are very much supportive of the family -- the biblical definition of the family unit. We are a family-owned business, a family-led business, and we are married to our first wives. We give God thanks for that. We intend to stay the course. We know that it might not be popular with everyone, but thank the Lord, we live in a country where we can share our values and operate on biblical principles." - Dan Cathy, CEO of Chick-Fil-A, when asked about the millions his company has donated to "family ministries." (Via Good As You)

The "biblical definition" of family also included incest and polygamy, so I guess that's cool too.

[DapperButch]

I work in a an outpatient office which is part of a large medical system, which is private, non-profit.

Their nondiscrimination policies for staff and patients includes seuxal orientation.

However, until now, we had a receptionist who accepted chick-fil-a sandwiches and coupons for free sandwiches from the chick-fil-a representatives who made the rounds of the outpatient services. Well, two weeks ago a new receptionist asked me about the coupon that she got from a rep, saying that she didn't know what to do with it. I grabbed it out of her hand, and tore it in half in short order. I launched into how we don't accept their coupons/sandwiches b/c they are an anti-gay organization and after all we have non discrimination policies at our company for sexual orientation.

I put the poor woman into a tizzy who said that she didn't know that about chick-fil-a and that she doesn't like chicken anyway. She also said she would make sure she didn't accept them.

I was pretty rabid about it. She was fine with it though and actually wasn't a new employee to our health system, just a new employee too our department. I will have to email our old receptionist (who is still a part of our health system, just left our department), to how if she is enjoying the sandwiches guilt free since I am not bitching at her for accepting them.:angry:

ETA: I think I am going to contact our HR department what I can do about this, company wide. They recently added gender identity to their non-discrimination company, so perhaps they will listen (or just don't want an irritated employee on this issue).

[Nadeest]

It might be a good idea to ask that any chic-fil-a representatives be banned from the medical system's properties.

[DapperButch]

It might be a good idea to ask that any chic-fil-a representatives be banned from the medical system's properties.

Exactly, that is my plan. And really, I don't think it is appropriate for them to be coming through anyway. We are doctor's offices (I doubt they go into our hospitals), not a place to hand out food/coupons for food.

However, for all I know, they are making deliveries and just stop by our office to give us the extras? I don't know. I do know that a chick-fil-a is not close to our site, so I would be quite surprised to think that any offices would order from them.

[Beloved]

http://boycottchickfila.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/chickfila-graphic.jpg

[nycfem]

The Muppets Dump chick-fil-a

http://joemygod.blogspot.com/2012/07/the-muppets-dump-chick-fil-a.html

[Kobi]

Mayor Thomas M. Menino has sworn that the franchise will have to fight city hall to bring its fast-food empire to Boston after Chick-fil-A’s president, Dan Cathy, said gay marriage is “inviting God’s judgment on our nation.” The Atlanta-based chain is hoping to open a restaurant in a popular tourist spot near the Freedom Trail — a rather ironic choice in Menino’s eyes.

“Chick-fil-A doesn’t belong in Boston,” Menino told the Boston Herald on Thursday. “You can’t have a business in the city of Boston that discriminates against the population. We’re an open city, we’re a city that’s at the forefront of inclusion. That’s the Freedom Trail. That’s where it all started right here. And we’re not going to have a company, Chick-fil-A or whatever the hell the name is, on our Freedom Trail.”

Menino just may succeed in effectively banning the chain from Boston: The mayor blocked the development of a Walmart in Roxbury last year, citing the retail empire’s negative impact on neighborhood business and lower-wage workers as his motivation. Now, he plans to offer Chick-fil-A a similar hurdle-laden policy. “If they need licenses in the city, it will be very difficult,” Menino said. “Unless they open up their policies.”

At the very least, Menino will be able to count on the support of Boston’s Northeastern University students in this fight. Chick-fil-A already had to cancel its plans to build a restaurant on that campus when students protested that the chain had donated millions of dollars to anti-gay groups. Administrators heeded the student’s wishes and told Chick-fil-A to fly the coop.

Read more: http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/07/23/boston-mayor-blocks-chick-fil-a-franchise-from-city-over-homophobic-attitude/#ixzz21TB479mK

[Kent]

I stopped going there a couple of years ago when I heard about Chick Fil A's contributing to causes against the glbtq community. This company will NEVER receive my business again. I can make a better healthier chicken sandwich at home. If I'm out and can't cook it myself, then there's always a McDonalds or Wendys just down the street from chick fil a. It's all about choices.

[The_Lady_Snow]

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/557118_365915623479486_122862545_n.jpg

[girl_dee]

WOOOOHOOoo


Thank you for posting that!

[lusciouskiwi]

My ex used to sing "Rainbow Connection" to me

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/557118_365915623479486_122862545_n.jpg

[lusciouskiwi]

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/23942881.jpg

[princessbelle]

I guess i live in a bubble but i didn't know a thing about this until i saw the stuff on facebook the past couple of weeks.

Normally, on Fridays when i'm working, i zip through the drive through and get a grilled chicken salad. No more.

Not that they will miss my 6 bucks a week, but at least i know i don't contribute to a homophobic family that needs to learn the real truth to God's love.

[dark_crystal]

So Christlike!!!!


http://halfninja.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/chickphoto.jpg?w=543&h=339

[weatherboi]

http://thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/eat-mor-chikin.jpg

[Kobi]

Alderman Joe Moreno, who represents Chicago's Logan Square neighborhood, plans to use his aldermanic privilege, a Chicago tradition in which City Council members defer to aldermen on local matters, to block the restaurant's permit.

"It's a very diverse ward-- economically, racially, and diverse in sexual orientation," Moreno told ABCNews.com. "We've got thriving businesses and we want more but at the very least don't discriminate against our LGBTQ folks."

Moreno does have the support of Mayor Rahm Emmanuel. "Chick-fil-A values are not Chicago values. They disrespect our fellow neighbors and residents. This would be a bad investment, since it would be empty," Emmanuel said in a statement to the Chicago Tribune.

Moreno said he had been working with "Chick-fil-A" for nine months to address traffic issues the restaurant could create. During that time, he said he also worked "behind the scenes" to address the company's alleged support of anti-gay organizations and brought in the Civil Rights Agenda, an LGBTQ group, to help create a dialogue.

"We were making, I thought, some progress, until [Dan Cathy] comes out swinging. That basically sunk our discussions," he said.



----------------------

Former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee organized a "Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day" for Aug. 1.

"The goal is simple: Let's affirm a business that operates on Christian principles and whose executives are willing to take a stand for the godly values we espouse by simply showing up and eating at Chick Fil-A on Wednesday, August 1," Huckabee wrote on Facebook.

As of this afternoon, more than 117,000 people had indicated they'd participate in the event.

Sen. Rick Santorum said on Twitter today that he was eating lunch at Chick-fil-A with five of his children.

"Enjoying chick-in-strips and an awesome peach shake at Chick-fil-A. See you here next Wednesday!" he tweeted.

------------------------------


Atlanta-based Chick-fil-A does about $4 billion in annual sales, according to its website, which states that the purpose of the chain is to "glorify God by being a faithful steward of all that is entrusted to us. To have a positive influence on all who come in contact with Chick-fil-A."

http://gma.yahoo.com/chicago-politician-ban-chick-fil-opening-restaurant-anti-165605333--abc-news-topstories.html;_ylt=AjEVqAkDLhaFke151_ENHuq0n.R_; _ylu=X3oDMTQzZjR0dTZvBG1pdANBcnRpY2xlIFRvcFN0b3JpZ XMEcGtnA2I0YmU2Y2U0LTdlNTMtM2YxOS1iOTJhLWYwMjI5ZmY zNzY4OQRwb3MDMQRzZWMDTWVkaWFTZWN0aW9uTGlzdAR2ZXIDO DhkNWQ2MzctZDcyNi0xMWUxLWJmZjctYjM5YzM3NTZmMjY0;_y lg=X3oDMTM2MHNwOWtzBGludGwDdXMEbGFuZwNlbi11cwRwc3R haWQDYTJkMWJiZTgtZjdiNS0zMmJlLTgyOWQtYzhkZTllOGY4M jViBHBzdGNhdANlbnRlcnRhaW5tZW50fG11c2ljBHB0A3N0b3J 5cGFnZQ--;_ylv=3

[LaneyDoll]

For anyone who loves the food but not the stance, try the copycat recipe for the "Chick-Fil-Gay" sandwich...

http://www.buzzfeed.com/wedontgiveafrak/chick-fil-gay-sandwich-chick-fil-a-copycat-recipe-2t1y

Oh, and I have to give props to some of our youth for taking their own stands...

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/eagle-scouts-return-medals-over-organization-anti-gay-184508093.html

:sparklyheart:

[Kobi]

Mayor Thomas M. Menino withdrew his threat to ban Chick-fil-A from Boston over the chicken chain president’s anti-gay marriage stance — but the Hub Democrat remained in the crosshairs of national conservatives, including former GOP presidential hopefuls Rick Santorum and Mike Huckabee.

“When I heard of the vicious hate speech and economic bullying being directed toward the (CEO Dan) Cathy family and their Chick-fil-A company, it was stunning. In the name of ‘tolerance’ a group was exercising extreme intolerance and trying to censor a citizen by threatening their business,” Huckabee told the Herald last night.

The former Arkansas governor also teed off on Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel, who echoed Menino in slamming the Atlanta-based chain over Cathy’s anti-gay-marriage statements.

“When mayors of major cities like Boston and Chicago actually became ‘wannabe tyrants’ and went on the record to say they would stop a business from opening in their city because they didn’t agree with the fact that the CEO of the company supported Biblical marriage, it was time to take a stand,” Huckabee’s statement read.

Huckabee, now a Fox News Channel host, also railed against Menino on his Facebook page and trumpeted support for an Aug. 1 nationwide “I Support Chick-Fil-A” rally. Huckabee’s page got so many hits yesterday it crashed briefly as thousands of Facebook users “liked” the posting.

“I’m thrilled that there have been over 250,000 people so far join with me to support Chick-fil-A but more importantly they are supporting the rights of all Americans to have freedom of speech and freedom of Faith,” Huckabee said in the statement.

Santorum, a former Pennsylvania senator who dropped out of the GOP race earlier this year, also backed Chick-fil-A.

“With two of my boys, enjoying chick-in-strips and an awesome peach shake at Chick-fil-A. See you here next Wednesday!” Santorum tweeted.

Exiled Boston Bruins goaltender Tim Thomas, who sparked controversy for skipping the team’s White House visit, also weighed in, writing on his Facebook page: “I stand with Chick-fil-A.”

Menino kicked up the coast-to-coast ruckus when he told the Herald last week “it will be very difficult” for Chick-fil-A to get licenses for a restaurant in Boston. The chain has been eyeing a pair of Hub sites.

The mayor yesterday backed off that threat, calling his quote a “mistake” and a “Menino-ism.”

“I sent (the landlord) a letter, but that’s all. There’s no pressure by me,” he said.

But in the letter — first obtained by the Herald — Menino blasted Cathy for “discrimination” against gays, and wrote, “I urge you to back out of your plans to locate in Boston.”

Civil rights experts say Menino’s hints of City Hall chicanery crossed a line — and could reap a lawsuit.

“It’s clearly unconstitutional for the city to deny permits based on a person’s opinions,” UCLA law professor Eugene Volokh said. “It opens the city up to criticism and even litigation.”

Local civil rights attorney Chester Darling said he’d “love to represent Chick-fil-A. I’d be in federal court in a New York minute.”



http://www.bostonherald.com/news/regional/view.bg?&articleid=1061148850&format=&page=2&listingType=Loc#articleFull

[always2late]

Just throwing this out there because I'm interested in opinions about this particular event. On Friday, gay activists are staging "national same-sex kiss day" at Chick-fil-a. Your thoughts? Do you think this is an effective form of protest for this particular issue? Do you think it will contribute to advancing the message/boycott? If not, why not?

I am, personally, not really sure how I feel about this. The media and right-wingnuts have turned this into a freedom of speech/religion issue..which is clouding the true purpose of the LGBT boycott of this particular chain. I think it would be more pro-active to get the REAL message out...that this boycott is NOT about free speech. Dan Kathy has a right to his beliefs and opinions, misguided though they may be. The point is that he is contributing a portion of his profits to groups that are actively working to deny/prohibit equal rights (not to mention that at least one of the organizations is working in Uganda to put forth the death penalty for homosexuality). THAT is why he is being boycotted...because to contribute to his earnings is to contribute to hate groups working to undermine equality. That is the message that needs to be spread. That is what the public needs to be informed about. I really don't see how staging a "kiss-in" is going to accomplish that.

[DapperButch]

Just throwing this out there because I'm interested in opinions about this particular event. On Friday, gay activists are staging "national same-sex kiss day" at Chick-fil-a. Your thoughts? Do you think this is an effective form of protest for this particular issue? Do you think it will contribute to advancing the message/boycott? If not, why not?

I am, personally, not really sure how I feel about this. The media and right-wingnuts have turned this into a freedom of speech/religion issue..which is clouding the true purpose of the LGBT boycott of this particular chain. I think it would be more pro-active to get the REAL message out...that this boycott is NOT about free speech. Dan Kathy has a right to his beliefs and opinions, misguided though they may be. The point is that he is contributing a portion of his profits to groups that are actively working to deny/prohibit equal rights (not to mention that at least one of the organizations is working in Uganda to put forth the death penalty for homosexuality). THAT is why he is being boycotted...because to contribute to his earnings is to contribute to hate groups working to undermine equality. That is the message that needs to be spread. That is what the public needs to be informed about. I really don't see how staging a "kiss-in" is going to accomplish that.

I would prefer the LGBTQ community and our allies just turn at this point and take our queer dollars with us. Staging a kiss in will only add fuel to the fire, pissing anti-gays to keep spending their money there, and will continue to give Chik-fil-a free advertising. Plus, yes, it will take away from what is supposed to be highlighted in all of this.

Most/many in the USA don't have strong feelings about this....they just get reminded every day that they really like the sandwiches at Chik-fil-a so they pick a up on few on their way home.

[Soon]

I say give them no more publicity (or money...they can't just sit there w/o buying something) but let their brand fester and become permanently associated with bigotry. I also think that the kissing may just, once again, reinforce that our relationships are solely about the physical and that our struggle for equality is about behavior as opposed to rights.

Watching the videos and support for them has been really depressing. It seems that many of us didn't even realize how many of those around us are willing to support this asshole business which has given money to damaging anti-gay causes (reparative therapy! uganda!) besides being against marriage equality.

I do think we lost this round--they framed it as freedom of speech, which we know it isn't--and rallied their "freedom loving Americans" by the hundreds of thousands.

Really sickening.

[Sachita]

I say give them no more publicity (or money...they can't just sit there w/o buying something) but let their brand fester and become permanently associated with bigotry. I also think that the kissing may just, once again, reinforce that our relationships are solely about the physical and that our struggle for equality is about behavior as opposed to rights.

Watching the videos and support for them has been really depressing. It seems that many of us didn't even realize how many of those around us are willing to support this asshole business which has given money to damaging anti-gay causes (reparative therapy! uganda!) besides being against marriage equality.

I do think we lost this round--they framed it as freedom of speech, which we know it isn't--and rallied their "freedom loving Americans" by the hundreds of thousands.

Really sickening.

exactly. Why give them more free advertising? I drove by the location by my house and there were more cars then I ever seen before. All we are doing is keep their brand in the public's face. I think that a "Kiss In" will only fuel the fire and accomplish nothing. The sooner we stop spending money there and keeping them in the public eye the better.

[princessbelle]

I wouldn't go to that place for anything...ever again.

Was wondering, however, when KFC or another Chicken or perhaps Burger place is going to come out with a "Support the LGBTQ Community Day". Just for us to show support.

I think they should. I think we would get just as much, if not more support, than Chick Fil-A-holes

[Soon]

exactly. Why give them more free advertising? I drove by the location by my house and there were more cars then I ever seen before. All we are doing is keep their brand in the public's face. I think that a "Kiss In" will only fuel the fire and accomplish nothing. The sooner we stop spending money there and keeping them in the public eye the better.

Yeah.

I can look at an upside--I do think their brand has been now permanently scarred with its fundamentalist and bigoted associations, and I am glad for that. Their brand approval ratings have already dropped and, despite the large turnouts in some areas of the USA, I think that many will not consume their product any longer.

I think those mayors/politicians did a disservice by speaking out as they did. It seemed more of a political manoeuvre than anything and most (all?) have backtracked or softened their original comments. There was a way to handle owner S. Truett Cathy's comments and have this all played out differently. Also, the media was no help or we didn't do a good job exposing the awful types of organizations this business owner supports. As we know, it is not a matter of free speech but an active support of organizations that harm and deny people their humanity and rights.

[BullDog]

Instead of national kiss day how about queers go out and volunteer at soup kitchens or something useful- something the haters would never do.

I agree with Soon and say let the brand fester. The best thing to do is to stay aware of corporations using their profits to fund anti-queer causes and to take our queer dollars elsewhere.

[Sachita]

Yeah.

I can look at an upside--I do think their brand has been now permanently scarred with its fundamentalist and bigoted associations, and I am glad for that. Their brand approval ratings have already dropped and, despite the large turnouts in some areas of the USA, I think that many will not consume their product any longer.



Yes and no. That's the funny thing about controversy and marketing. Sure they will lose a sector of the market but if you think about it that may not have even been a strong market for them in the first place. You have a HUGE fundamentalist sector that will now go out of their way to show support not because of the gay agenda but them standing their religious ground. Trust me, they have more money coming through then they did prior to all of this. Like I said I drove by the store in my small southern town and it was slammed packed. If we keep shoving our sexuality down their throat do you really think it will make a difference or get people out of the churches and heavily supporting these companies.

But perhaps it will have a ripple effect and only time will tell.

[starryeyes]

Instead of national kiss day how about queers go out and volunteer at soup kitchens or something useful- something the haters would never do.

I agree with Soon and say let the brand fester. The best thing to do is to stay aware of corporations using their profits to fund anti-queer causes and to take our queer dollars elsewhere.

Yes!!! I would love to organize something like this in my area. It made me sick to my stomach with chick fil a announced record breaking profits yesterday. I KNOW we could do the same.

[Nadeest]

I agree with Soon and Bulldog, let's let them fester, while we go spend our money elsewhere. Still, it definitely got people's attention, at least.

[Quintease]

This (http://www.dailydot.com/society/chick-fil-a-gay-yelp-reviews/) is funny.

[girl_dee]

This (http://www.dailydot.com/society/chick-fil-a-gay-yelp-reviews/) is funny.

:rofl:........omg@ the comments.....

[DapperButch]

I wouldn't go to that place for anything...ever again.

Was wondering, however, when KFC or another Chicken or perhaps Burger place is going to come out with a "Support the LGBTQ Community Day". Just for us to show support.

I think they should. I think we would get just as much, if not more support, than Chick Fil-A-holes



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/01/kfc-loves-gays-john-goodman-funny-or-die_n_1728258.html?ref=topbar

[Mrs Arcstriker]

The thing about Chick-fil-a is that each individual store is a privately owned franchise, and boycotting just on the basis of the founder's opinion only stands to hurt the private franchise owner first.

We don't have these franchises here in CT in any great abundance, and the only time I was ever a "patron" was one night when I got horribly stuck in the airport in Atlanta. Once I was resigned to the fact that they were the only restaurant willing to stay open for those of us forced to sleep in the airport, they were kind enough to give out free food until the food ran out.

I wholeheartedly agree that as consumers we all have to follow our conscience when we spent our hard-earned dollars and they may lose some customers and gain some others. That said, I am far more concerned about the fact that some major cities are now going to block the opening of new Chick-fil-a franchises because of the anti-same-sex-marriage stance of the founder. IMHO, this is NOT a time for any city to block new small business with potential for creating new jobs.

As a sidebar, recently J C Penney lost the support of the One Million Moms when JCP chose Ellen Degeneres as the spokeswoman...I didn't agree with that boycott movement. Thusly, if I didn't agree with that one then I don't agree with the Chik-fil-a boycott either.

[not2shygrrl]

I gotta say, Dan Cathy has every right to give/donate money to where and whom ever he chooses. It is his money, and if a person does not approve of those donations then don't purchase from Chic fil a. It's that simple. I spend my money where I choose and my donations go where I choose, it is my money and my beliefs that lead me to select who gets my donations or where I spend money. I don't think there is a person here in BFP that would welcome being bashed because of what you believe in. As a matter of fact....we all here experience that now! (or have experienced it)

I am not of the school of being right or wrong. I am however of the school that what matters is the thoughts of people (and opinions to a point) . Knowledge is empowering, if the words and beliefs are said out of fear (religious) and the unknown, that is reactionary. To educate, without forcing something down a persons throat is an approach more civilized and intelligent.

They have gained notoriety, free press, support from haters and more from all this hullaballoo. The money it would have taken to get this advertising they now have for free is invaluable. Now I know mine is not the popular view, but it is how I feel. I am not angered by Dan Cathy, or his beliefs....I am upset that the press grabbbed onto this story and blew it across the globe, and we all.....reacted. Well it's been a day or so with my thoughts. I have no discontent for anyone, I own my thoughts not the freakin press who trys to gain my support by dramatizing and inflating stories to assert their control and attempt directional power. I only wish I had been able to ignore it out of the gate.

[Martina]

I think that we should be out and present. It intimidates. The Mormons were so shocked that that many people thought it was wrong that their church donated toward passing Prop 8.

I find that more and more people are afraid of the backlash against them for their positions against lgbtq rights. I am glad that they are afraid. Those who have not or will not change their minds should hesitate before they take action against us. They should consider what it might cost them.

We need to shame them and cost them money.

[Corkey]

It has never been about his right to say or believe what ever he chooses. It is and has been about his funding and promoting of hate groups who support killing gay Ugandans, Exodus Int'l, and Tony Perkins group Focus on the Family who equate pedophillia to gay men. He is well within his right to say what ever he wishes, he is not within his right to promote murder. And it is my right to say truth to hate and not to buy and contribute to those who, given the chance, would kill me or any of *you*. It isn't about religion or free speech, it is about hate. Food is love, not hate.

[EnderD_503]

Instead of national kiss day how about queers go out and volunteer at soup kitchens or something useful- something the haters would never do.

I agree with Soon and say let the brand fester. The best thing to do is to stay aware of corporations using their profits to fund anti-queer causes and to take our queer dollars elsewhere.

I don't know too much about this Chick-fil-a thing (Do we even have them in Canada? Never heard of it before), but I think going to volunteer in disadvantaged communities would be a better reaction than continuing to support corporate greed.

The other thing to, is, yeah, be aware of anti-queer corporations using their profits to fund anti-queer causes...but also be aware of how corporations in general have been trying to use the queer community lately to try to make more money. For example, up here RBC may claim to be supporting queer communities through supporting Pride, but how exactly is that helping queer communities that need the most support? 40% of homeless youth here is queer-identified. That's a pretty big statistic. Is supporting corporate greed going to help anything? Not likely. People need to be aware of corporations and how they work in general. Because no matter what their real beliefs are, they will always go where the money is. If Chick-fil-a can make more money or the same profit by advertising their anti-lgbt stance, then they'll have no problems spending their money for anti-lgbt causes. If 10 years down the road that really starts to fuck with their profits, they'll change their "official" stance for the sake of profit. It's just the nature of the beast.

I just think we shouldn't be paying so much attention to corporations...and more attention to real social issues. Don't sign a petition to bring down a bigot corporation (cause at the end of the day, they're all bigots in one way or other), go out and help queer folks that need it in whatever way you can. I think that's more productive, imo.

[morningstar55]

I am NOT ... 4 the Kiss thng either... thnk the bull dog idea is great.
Ya knw i do believe Hobby Lobby is a Christian based store 2 ..... and closed on Sundays never hear anythng frm thm.

[arcstriker]

Last friday when LL and I were driving to our romantic get-a-way, we were listening to one of the many talk shows on the radio with this whole Chicken thing.

All that talk of chicken made me so hungry we had to pull off the nearest exit to find something to eat. We settled for the golden arches, and I just had to have the 10 piece Chicken Mcnuggets with BBQ sauce!

In all honesty Cathy is the owner of a private company and the last time I check we still have the right to free speech as long as you don't scream fire when there isn't one. People will or will not chose to eat there based on his statement.

I am not so sure about whole towns and city's saying that they will not allow Chic-flilets stores to open in there area. Right now the economy and jobs are a huge issue and I hate to see opportunities drop by the way side.

Its just my opinion. Now I am going to check out the refrig and see if there is any left over chicken from last night to have for lunch! :praying:

[Soon]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-xtxmBZYZS84/UBvYuaLHUmI/AAAAAAABixs/LRNBLgl22F0/s400/Cartografia.png

[Soon]

well-known activist and blogger Pam Spaulding:

IMHO, I’m not keen on this as an effective protest tool — it’s not about our right to love (ostensibly why gay couples will be there kissing), it’s about Chick-fil-As record of anti-gay discrimination and funding of groups that want us DEAD, endorse “ex-gay” therapy, and to deny LGBTs basic civil rights. The kiss-in seems more like a stunt for shock value that the fundies will try capitalize on by tying the action to sex acts that they abhor. The “ick” factor has been one of the major issues these folks cling to, like it or not. [snip]

I’m not saying that direct actions are useless; I just don’t think this particular one focuses on the vile business practices that are counter to equality under the law — and they are draped in religious bigotry that is funded by Chick-fil-A. It allows the framing of the issue to remain in the court of the fundamentalists. Gay=sex. Sex=icky. Remember, Chick-fil-A doesn’t mind firing adulterers, or non-Christians (the latter cost them a pretty penny for firing a Muslim that didn’t want to pray to Jesus at a corporate event). The world view is extremely narrow and discriminatory.

[BullDog]

It's about corporate profits funding anti-equality and anti-gay groups.

Oh and "free speech"- no I don't believe people have the right to publicly state just anything they want. They don't have a right to promote hate.

[LeftWriteFemme]

5 Reasons Why the Church Failed Yesterday


http://matthewpaulturner.net/blog/5-reasons-why-the-church-failed-yesterday/

[ruffryder]

Never been to Chick Fil Hate and never will. It sucked to see all the support the other day. People are so ignorant to think it's based on free speech. A kiss in day? How stupid i say! People think it's gonna be a full make out go at it day and probably some idiots will. I don't think it solves anything. I would agree more with a bunch of gays holding hands around the Chick Fil Hate places, buying some deli chicken or KFC and handing it out for free to those that came to Chick Fil Hate.

Starbucks is having an appreciation day, Aug 7. So be sure and go! Starbucks not only treats customers and employees with respect and dignity, but for the last 20 years, it also has offered domestic partner benefits in the U.S. to part-time and full-time employees. Drink for marriage equality (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kirsten-palladino/starbucks-appreciation-day_b_1731600.html?utm_hp_ref=gay-voices)

http://www.hrc.org/files/images/blog/NSAD_interior.jpg

[BullDog]

5 Reasons Why the Church Failed Yesterday


http://matthewpaulturner.net/blog/5-reasons-why-the-church-failed-yesterday/

Great article. Thank you for posting it LeftWriteFemme.

Christianity is supposed to be about love. There are some so-called Christians who spend way too much time judging others and "hating the sin." I grew up in a Christian household and have read the Bible many times. Not once do I recall there being anything about telling people to go out and judge people and to determine what sin is. I don't think Jesus even had that right. Only God got to decide what sin is.

I am not a Christian but the two people who love me the most in this world are- my partner and my mother.

I wouldn't support a queer business owner sending corporate profits to "cure" people of Christianity any more than I would so-called Christians sending money to "cure" homosexuality. I wouldn't support gay people standing up and promoting hate against Christians. I don't support hate and people can spin it all they want and try to call it "free speech."

[The_Lady_Snow]

I'm not spending $5.00 on chicken just so I can kiss Grant, that's not protesting. I'll take the streets, occupy, feed the endless of homeless that are in Jacksonville's streets. I'll be damned if that company EVER gets my $$..

[ruffryder]

Who said anything about spending money on kiss in day? I say walk in, look around and say loudly, "Babe, this isn't KFC! Oh yea this is that hate place. What brought us here? Oh yea, we are here just to voice our opinion and freedeom of speech that we do not agree with what the owner of Chick Fil A says and his values about marriage. Have a nice day everybody. We are going to KFC now where the chicken and company is finer!" *give your partner a smooch and walk out* LOL! Can you imagine !

[Miss Scarlett]

i wasn't planning on posting in this thread but...

i don't agree with what Mr Cathy believes but he has the right to his beliefs just like we do. The First Amendment allows freedom of speech and religion to everyone in this country not just those who say what i agree with or want to hear...

i used to be very active in the fight for our rights but grew tired of the lack of support within our own community...if we would take all of this energy and opposition and actually put it to work perhaps we will make some progress...nothing happens overnight or by magic...it takes time, a lot of hard work, patience and perserverance...but we CAN do it!

BTW - i noticed the map above shows that gay employees can be legally fired in NC...true there is no protection but this is an employment at will state with few protections beyond the standards of age, race, religion, disability, etc.

[Martina]

Unfortunately, with activism, a lot of the time you don't get to choose your fights. I sure would not have chosen gay marriage as the central issue of the fight for lgbtq rights. Look at that map that Howsoonisnow posted showing all the states where we can be fired for being gay. That's an issue I could get behind with more enthusiasm. But inevitably, because my enemies were coming after me on the gay marriage issue, I stood behind it too.

I think that whenever we are attacked, we should stand up. I don't care if people like us. They don't have to. What they need to know is that every time they try to hurt us, we are going to stand up to them using every resource at our disposal: protests, lawsuits, boycotts, art, and so on.

I don't care about the corporation itself. But all those people out there supporting them -- I want some of us out there looking them in the eyes letting them know that we see them for the bigots they are.

[BullDog]

If Jesus was here on planet Earth right now would he be supporting Chick-fil-a with the thumbs up sign or would he be out feeding the poor and standing up against hypocrisy like he did in the Bible? If people are going to call themselves Christians they should follow Christ's example.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Who said anything about spending money on kiss in day? I say walk in, look around and say loudly, "Babe, this isn't KFC! Oh yea this is that hate place. What brought us here? Oh yea, we are here just to voice our opinion and freedeom of speech that we do not agree with what the owner of Chick Fil A says and his values about marriage. Have a nice day everybody. We are going to KFC now where the chicken and company is finer!" *give your partner a smooch and walk out* LOL! Can you imagine !

I don't roll this way when it comes to my politics, I haven't been able to in the past without the fear of being handcuffed. I will be honest and admit your example for me brings up a sense of fear. Fear of some good ol boy getting up doing something to either myself or Grant, for me that kind of passive aggressive walk in only fuels their "the gays are evil".

As a group we are going to have to go at this in a civil rights approach, we are being singled out by Corperate goons, they are marketing fear. We need to smarter, calmer, and lawful it's not going to be easy but no movement ever is..

[Martina]

If people are going to call themselves Christians they should follow Christ's example.

And lots of Christians do all that.

But if you are talking to the Christian right, you are wasting your time. They are fundamentalists in the way that Al-Qaida members are. They are not going to respond to arguments like that. They are about preserving power and privilege that they think they have lost. They are not Christian in the sense that you would like. And they aren't American if to be American means to support the freedoms guaranteed by the constitution.

A little shaming, saying wwjd, is not going to have an effect. These people are our enemies. I take them seriously.

[BullDog]

I take them seriously too Martina. And there are Christians that practice what they preach. It doesn't hurt to point out the hypocrisy for those that don't. They aren't practicing Christianity, they are promoting hate.

[weatherboi]

i think my biggest problem is the space to hate that has been created due to the founders stance on equality and marriage. even if i was gonna choose to go there it probably wouldn't be safe for me to do so for any number of reasons.one reason would be my overall fear that there is one petty hater that is gonna be making my sandwich and know i am a queer and decide to do something unthinkable to my meal. the second reason is that as a trans person my bathroom space will never be respected with the attitudes the company has set in place. they would probably call the cops on me for using the mens bathroom. thirdly if there is an incident ever involving me or anybody i love on any chik a fil a site we/ i will probably be seen as the bad guys because we all look like and are queers.

As a business owner it is never a good idea to support anything oppressive what so ever. The only reason chik a fil a can do so is because they are a billion dollar company and can do whatever they want because our religious influenced oppressive government has set it up so they can also oppress and i think that is now pretty obvious the influence big money has on our social policies. Chik Fil A is big money. They have people attempting to sue them all the time for their hiring and firing practices.

I think the same thoughts can be applied to a city or state. It is not in any city, state, or country's best interest to bring in companies that have oppressive policies and philosophies. It is not in any cities, states, country's best interest to have any equality issues what so ever. They lose good companies that are progressive. They lose talented young people to other progressive cities in other more open minded areas. We see it here all the time where I live. No protections for LGBT so we lose companies, we lose opportunities to have big companies here, and we lose talented young people.

Anti equality anything is hurtful anywhere to our economy, our people and the world as a whole. It does not create jobs when companies don't want to be in the same city as a company like chik a fil a. It doesn't create jobs when a city doesn't have protections in place for lgbt people. So if a city has a supportive LGBT policy and practice it makes perfect sense to me not to welcome chik a fil a in.

[Miss Scarlett]

And they aren't American if to be American means to support the freedoms guaranteed by the constitution.

Martina, an interesting comment...can you please expand on this a bit more so i can better understand what you are saying?

[BullDog]

Yes exactly Weatherboi. People promoting hate makes it unsafe for us. Anti equality of anything has nothing to do with free speech.

[Martina]

Well, they are challenging the separation of church and state at every turn. Not just legally, but as pseudo-historians. They actually believe there was no intention to separate church and state by the founders.

They would like to refound the country as a Christian nation based on what they understand as Christian values, forcing us all to adhere to them by law.

That is as un-American as it is possible to be, in my opinion.

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/06/constitutional-myth-4-the-constitution-doesnt-separate-church-and-state/240481/

[BullDog]

Here is what some of the gay employees are going through right now. It doesn't sound like they are hearing much about love and peace from recent patrons.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/01/chick-fil-a-anti-gay-controversy-employees-speak-out_n_1729968.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular

[weatherboi]

This whole chik fil a thing has brought me to feel if I am spending my queer dollars with a company that gives to super pacs and their officers give to the GOP party I am probably giving money indirectly to anti lgbt organizations. The list of businesses to support could get long including small businesses that still fall under the mom and pop spectrum that are local.
:brainexplosion:

[Miss Scarlett]

Well, they are challenging the separation of church and state at every turn. Not just legally, but as pseudo-historians. They actually believe there was no intention to separate church and state by the founders.

They would like to refound the country as a Christian nation based on what they understand as Christian values, forcing us all to adhere to them by law.

That is as un-American as it is possible to be, in my opinion.

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/06/constitutional-myth-4-the-constitution-doesnt-separate-church-and-state/240481/

Thanks Martina... i see your point...the article is very interesting and shows that the argument and challenges as to separation of church and state have been going on almost 200 years...but i don't believe those folks are not Americans or un-American...i don't agree with them at all but it is very American to stand up and challenge things or to fight for what you believe in...that's what led to the founding of this Country and also to social change...

i don't think they will be successful in refounding the Country according to their values but at the same time we absolutely cannot be complacent when it comes to social issues, our rights or our leaders...we must vote for the candidates and issues we believe in and not leave it up to everyone else to fight to fight for us...

If the passage of Amendment One (NC marriage amendment) taught us (i'm referring to the LGBT community here in NC) anything i hope it taught us to get out and vote against these things rather than merely paying them lipservice or believing that your (speaking in general terms not addressing any one person) vote will not make a difference...

Can you imagine what would happen if we turned out to vote with the same dogged passion and in the proportionate numbers as the Chick-fil-a supporters the other day?

[Miss Scarlett]

This whole chik fil a thing has brought me to feel if I am spending my queer dollars with a company that gives to super pacs and their officers give to the GOP party I am probably giving money indirectly to anti lgbt organizations. The list of businesses to support could get long including small businesses that still fall under the mom and pop spectrum that are local.
:brainexplosion:

True...all we can do is keep our eyes & ears open and decide accordingly...HRC publishes an annual guide or rating...a good indicator (in my small town anyway) with regard to the mom & pop places are what political signs do they allow on their property...

[EnderD_503]

Unfortunately, with activism, a lot of the time you don't get to choose your fights. I sure would not have chosen gay marriage as the central issue of the fight for lgbtq rights. Look at that map that Howsoonisnow posted showing all the states where we can be fired for being gay. That's an issue I could get behind with more enthusiasm. But inevitably, because my enemies were coming after me on the gay marriage issue, I stood behind it too.

I think that whenever we are attacked, we should stand up. I don't care if people like us. They don't have to. What they need to know is that every time they try to hurt us, we are going to stand up to them using every resource at our disposal: protests, lawsuits, boycotts, art, and so on.

I don't care about the corporation itself. But all those people out there supporting them -- I want some of us out there looking them in the eyes letting them know that we see them for the bigots they are.

I disagree with this. There are plenty of examples of ways in which communal activism does not mean single-issue "activism." Most protests (at least here) are like that. For example, at Slut Walk most of us were not simply protesting the words of the police officer who inspired the inception of Slut Walk. As Slut Walk moved past its first annual march, you saw people protesting a multitude of issues, and speeches that moved beyond that one event and touched many experiences and many issues. The same thing goes with many of the queer marches here, that are not single-issue, but give people the avenue to voice all forms of oppression that touch our community.

I think the methods of the mainstream lgbt community in the States isn't all that great. Basically, right now its seems their tactic is to just react to every little thing the religious right throws at them. Someone expresses anti-same-sex marriage beliefs and they react. Someone calls homosexuality a sin and they react.

Activism needs to be more than just a series of isolated reactions to individual celebrity opinions. That doesn't cover the whole problem, and often what ends up happening is that less and less attention is given to portions of the queer community that are living in totally inhumane situations...and yes! In North America! It diverts attention away from serious social issues, and let's be frank...most mainstream lgbt folk think the same as most of the rest of society when it comes to the disadvantaged: "homeless people are just lazy," "sex workers don't deserve rights," "more border security to keep 'illegal aliens' out," "bdsmers just make us look like crazy perverts at Pride," "racism doesn't exist, people are just lazy" etc. etc. That is the very real reason why the lgbt rights movement has become largely single-issue...because the average person just doesn't give a shit about people who didn't have the same social privileges as they did.

To me, trying to make even small changes mean helping not for profit organisations that make differences in the lives of disadvantaged queer folks. Volunteering. Marches that allow people to voice all the ways in which queer rights are being violated. And that means people are gonna have a lot to say about misogyny, aboriginal rights, poverty, anti-sex worker and anti-immigrant sentiments and many more. That is activism...not kiss-ins and single-issue reactionaries.

Also, I don't get why people are making this into an issue of Chick-fil-a being "unAmerican" or "unChristian." I mean, really, people? Neither of these things are of any consequence. This whole "unAmerican" thing seems to be an insult that Americans throw at each other when they don't agree with one another about something. In that case, its failing to see the damage that patriotism and this whole notion of "Americanness" does. I don't think I've seen many Germans outside of the far right fringe cry out that something is "unGerman" (and usually that hails back to Nazism and the idea of "the folk," and Germans are pretty conscious about using that kind of language) or a Swede about a policy being "UnSwedish." Americans seem to have this obsession with patriotism that actually causes problems and second class citizens. Its this whole competition of "Americanness" that often allows fundamentalists to rave against the queer community (and many other communities for that matter...historically and in the present), because their idea of "Americanness" is traditional family values. Then the queer community screams back that such and such a thing is "unAmerican" because it violates "such and such amendment" (which apparently is serious business in the good ol' US of A). Such arguments are pointless. It has nothing to do with a who's "more American" than whomever pissing contest. It has to do with allowing people to have their basic human rights and allowing every citizen of a nation to have the same rights. That is something that people fight for in most nations, and is generally the hallmark of most progressive nations.

As for the christian part...are we really going to sit here and argue over what is essentially mythology? Its so silly. We have our share of fundies here in Canada as well, with the REAL Women of Canada and whatnot...people just accept that they're nutjobs and go on to more important things. We don't argue with them as to whether or not they're "good christians." I really don't give a shit if a fundie is practicing "good christianity" (whatever the hell that is) or not by being a bigot. I'm more concerned with the fact that they're a bigot who thinks that their personal opinions about another group of people makes them think that they have the "freedom" to promote hatred. Luckily, they don't have that right legally, and for that I'm at least partially grateful. For example, recently here a gay couple was denied an apartment because of the landlord's "personal beliefs." The court barely took a second to side with the couple. You don't get an arena to affect others' lives just because you decide to hate on them...that should never be a right.

And yeah, I agree with what some others have written here...that essentially, freedom of speech does not mean having the right to spout hatred in public and to stomp on others' rights to a safe environment. Its always christians who seem to think they do have that right. I've never seen a group so disrespectful of others' safe spaces and rights to total equality.

[BullDog]

Hey the reason I call these haters out as not practicing Christianity is because they try to wrap their hate up into "religious freedom."

I agree with Martina that just calling it out won't stop them, but I am not going to defend people the right to practice religion when they aren't practicing what they supposedly preach.

People can hold whatever religious, spiritual, whatever beliefs they want, but when it infringes on others rights and promotes hatred and violence it doesn't have any place in public discourse. I'm not going to defend that as religious freedom or freedom of speech.

[EnderD_503]

While I agree that "religious freedom" doesn't include promoting hatred against others, I still don't see the point of discussing with them about whether or not they're being "good christians." The Bible is so full of contradictions its extremely easy to make an argument one way or another...as it should be, considering it was a text written by numerous men over 1500 years ago, that's taken influence from numerous other religions. There are plenty of biblical passages that promote hatred...but, to me, that's not the issue. I'm not going to condemn all christians because of it, but at the same time, I think its just pointless to argue with them.

Instead, its better to talk about human rights in the modern age and freedom from discrimination under the law, regardless of sexual orientation, race/ethnicity/skin colour, nationality, sex, religion, gender identity, ability etc. That removes religion from the arena entirely and they don't have a leg to stand on. Eventually, the more secular American society becomes, they become more obsolete...and especially if people simply refuse to argue with them over issues of religion that don't affect people who don't follow that religion.

[BullDog]

Well if I ever get into a face to face conversation with one of these haters I have just one question for them: what would Jesus do? Their hypocrisy is obvious whether you take the teachings of Christ into account or not.

[Martina]

Then the queer community screams back that such and such a thing is "unAmerican" because it violates "such and such amendment" (which apparently is serious business in the good ol' US of A).

It sure as fuck is serious business in the 'good ole USA.' It's something -- the constitution -- that I'd actually fight for. It's other Americans, sadly, who are the most serious threat to it. I have a problem with the two party system, but the rights guaranteed by our constitution, no. I am grateful and proud of the constitution. I love it. As in partriotic LOVE.

I am not a believer in American exceptionalism, and I see the damage it causes. But we did something special with that constitution and that revolution. And it HAS been formative. It has made us a people who are different for more reasons than our language or how we prepare our food.

I love what Sandra Day O'Connor is doing with her retirement. She is working on improving civics education. What we have in the U.S. is a form of government set up to fight people like the religious right. It was specifically DESIGNED to protect us from extremists. It amazingly also was designed to protect most unpopular minorities, and we have amended it to broaden those categoris. And -- most importantly -- it allows for change. Change without destruction. It is a great document, the first of its kind. And I CARE about. I also believe that growing up in a culture that has taught and applied that document, however partially, is part of what makes me who I am. It does not make me better than anyone else. But it is part of who I AM. As a person.

Yes, calling something un-American has usually come from the right. My point was to turn that around on them. Just a rhetorical strategy. Nothing I care about. But I do care about my identity as an American, and I believe it means something. And not what those fucking right wing zealots say it does. I will take them on about that because it means something to ME, as an American.

[Miss Scarlett]

Awesome post Martina...i love our Constitution too...it's a living, breathing document and has stood in place for over 200 years withstanding crises such as the Civil War and Watergate...it is what protects us from governmental oppression here in the US...i cannot and do not want to imagine what life in this Country of ours would be like without it...

Also i am a big fan of Sandra Day O'Connor and love that she is trying to bring civics education back...it never should have left our schools in the first place...

[aishah]

While I agree that "religious freedom" doesn't include promoting hatred against others, I still don't see the point of discussing with them about whether or not they're being "good christians." The Bible is so full of contradictions its extremely easy to make an argument one way or another...as it should be, considering it was a text written by numerous men over 1500 years ago, that's taken influence from numerous other religions. There are plenty of biblical passages that promote hatred...but, to me, that's not the issue. I'm not going to condemn all christians because of it, but at the same time, I think its just pointless to argue with them.

i'm part of a church community (that is progressive) and from within the christian community i see a huge movement towards doing this (confronting hateful christians by pointing out the problems with their theology) only because of the need that some folks see to actually practice what jesus preached. and within the ecumenical movement, it can be a starting point of dialogue - okay, we may not agree on everything politically but we agree that jesus preached this one thing, so let's start the conversation from there.

from without the christian community, it usually ends up being a self-congratulatory way of pointing out other people's hypocrisy. i mean, i see why people do it, and i do think it's important to stand up against bigotry. but i don't understand the constructive value of it, because it's rarely phrased in a way that will actually make people stop and think or consider changing their minds. it's also usually done with a heaping side of self-righteousness...which...you know...i've been guilty of that myself. but i don't necessarily think that self-righteously judging someone, even someone who is saying terrible things, will really change anything.

[Corkey]

I have a saying I'm rather fond of and anyone is free to grab it.

"Your rights end at the beginning of my nose".

[DMW]

So many good comments here. The separation of church and state is a very critical part of our constitution. People should be granted equality, civil liberties, human rights and justice...regardless of all religion's ideals. Period.


Something i am grateful for, because i now know that this company is my enemy, i will act accordingly. It is a gift that they have come out of the closet...Now, anyone and everyone, that knows me...will never spend another dollar there.

And that probably goes for everyone here...hooooorrraaaaahhh

And now, i would like for the others to come out of the closet too..... I love it when corporations show their true colors. Cause then, i can show mine.




Wow Corkey, i just got done with this and then saw your post....exactly! Right on target!
The nose Knows...

[The_Lady_Snow]

I'll take the chance and be honest that it's hard to have these conversations with Christians/Zealots when half the stuff they ate throwing in my direction is based on a book of lies. You can't have a constructive rational conversation with someone who keeps on saying or mentioning Sodom & Gomorrah. It's a lost cause there is zero critical thinking going on and it's totally like arguing with a toddler mid hissy fit.


I don't believe believe ALL Christians behave in this manner. I'm speaking of all the hoards that showed up for a free hate filled sammich. It is one of the most vile things I have seen in my adult life, people had their children in there as they sang God Bless America. These adults are having hate filled conversations regarding LGBTQI people speaking about us as if we're pariah's, as if we we're infesting their "space". It's scary what kind of hate is brewing out there all in the name of "God".


It's hard getting past all the biblical muck just so that the OBVIOUS (which is our rights as citizens) can be discussed.

[BullDog]

I am not sure who is being self-righteous but to me there is a world of difference between people with religious/spiritual beliefs who act from a place of love and conviction and those who use their "faith" as a cover for hate. The differences can be spotted a mile away and should be duly noted.

[BullDog]

So many good comments here. The separation of church and state is a very critical part of our constitution. People should be granted equality, civil liberties, human rights and justice...regardless of all religion's ideals. Period.

Yes I agree. If we didn't have such a messy line between the two things would be much better.

[aishah]

I am not sure who is being self-righteous but to me there is a world of difference between people with religious/spiritual beliefs who act from a place of love and conviction and those who use their "faith" as a cover for hate. The differences can be spotted a mile away and should be duly noted.

i agree wholeheartedly.

i think for me i'm critical of my own judgment of other people as hypocritical when it's coming from a place of self-righteousness, because i do that (out of justifiable anger and frustration), but usually when i do that it doesn't leave the potential for changing anything. it just makes me feel like a better person. and for me at least that makes me wonder if i'm any better with my self-righteous judging than they are with theirs. just because i'm right and i have good intentions doesn't necessarily mean that it's a loving act for me to be judgmental and to be up on a high horse about it.

so i'm trying to learn to engage - when i do choose to engage - in ways that are more constructive and have the possibility of changing people's minds - while still maintaining my principles. one way of doing this is to emphasize rights and protections guaranteed under the law, although this doesn't usually make any impact on folks who are spewing biblical hate. another way that has worked somewhat for me is to emphasize how much their ideas and hatred are actually endangering and killing human beings. this sometimes has an impact on the more moderate folks. another way that i'm exploring is to open up ecumenical dialogue and actually confront the theological issues with faith leaders in moderate and conservative christian communities. the jury's still out on that.

the difficulty i have is that i view things in a pretty black and white fashion. i tend to take the james cone view of god and oppression - god is on the side of the oppressed, period, end of story, and any argument with that, whether overt or implied, is justifying and upholding oppression. so my patience with dialogue only goes so far. and i cave to anger and frustration a lot because, let's face it, the barrage of hateful bullshit is neverending.

[Mrs Arcstriker]

The more that I hear about this debate, the more that I think we have bigger fish (or chickens) to fry...

IMHO, I am a lesbian, and legally married in the GREAT STATE OF CONNECTICUT...and that said, I do not think that a kiss-in will help our cause a fig.

To me, this whole Chick-fil-a thing is nothing more than a herring in the path and I for one will not jump on the bandwagon...any moresoe than I did when it was J C Penney under fire by the Million Moms after Ellen Degeneres was appointed the spokeswoman.

Spend your money there or don't...You all have to choose with your own conscience...A kiss-in though will prove nothing more to the right than what they already know to be true...They think that the sum-total of homosexuality is about sex, and to thrust it into their faces in the forum of a kiss-in might only to foster that point...

[BullDog]

I have mixed emotions because in some ways I feel fil-a-hate is getting way too much air time and in other ways I feel we need the awareness to spread about where their money is going.

I watched a video a while ago posted on the Advocate website. They were filming at a fil-a-hate in Hollywood, just blocks from where I once worked. Pat Boone even showed up. The people they interviewed were all ignorant and hateful but they certainly didn't see themselves that way. It was pretty grim.

They have a right to spend their dollars where they want to, just like we do. The difference is they are supporting a company that funds anti-equality causes and hate groups. It's quite clear there is plenty of homophobia and anti-gay rhetoric springing up over this and not about just someone's personal beliefs about marriage.

[weatherboi]

There are already reports of other companies taking their stand and supporting chik fil a. i would hate to see a trend with big money companies taking "stands" against LGBT people but it is something that i could see happening after what happened Thursday. It is alarming at best!

[The_Lady_Snow]

Chic Fil A's profits are going to support Uganda's "Kill The Gays" bill. Each one of those "ignorant" Christians/Zealots provided more income for that cause and a few other anti gay groups.

Murder, the legalization of allowing the hunting down of a human being. It's not just a civil right we are fighting for it's human rights.

I'm pretty convinced that if "some" people could have it their way, we'd be hunted down with party music playing in the background.

I hope every queer wakes the fuck up and votes, as a woman I feel I have double the target on my back since these people think they own my rights to my vagina as well.


Not one queer dollar should be spent at this particular business.

[EnderD_503]

The more that I hear about this debate, the more that I think we have bigger fish (or chickens) to fry...

IMHO, I am a lesbian, and legally married in the GREAT STATE OF CONNECTICUT...and that said, I do not think that a kiss-in will help our cause a fig.

To me, this whole Chick-fil-a thing is nothing more than a herring in the path and I for one will not jump on the bandwagon...any moresoe than I did when it was J C Penney under fire by the Million Moms after Ellen Degeneres was appointed the spokeswoman.

Spend your money there or don't...You all have to choose with your own conscience...A kiss-in though will prove nothing more to the right than what they already know to be true...They think that the sum-total of homosexuality is about sex, and to thrust it into their faces in the forum of a kiss-in might only to foster that point...

I largely agree until your last paragraph. I guess I don't see the issue about sex. Society really needs to stop being so alarmist about it and sex needs to stop being seen as this thing to be kept out of the public eye.

But I certainly do think there are bigger fish to fry. Corporate scandals = least of lgbt/queer community's worries, imo. Edit: Do I think it sucks that these buffoons are funding the murder of the lgbt community in Uganda...yes. But I don't think that boycotting a restaurant is going to help the lgbt community Uganda, either. There are better ways, and the international community has managed to put pressure on the Ugandan government. Like its been mentioned earlier in the thread, movements take time and change takes time.

[BullDog]

Ender I don't understand why you say "Corporate scandals = least of lgbt/queer community's worries." Big corporations make lots of money and that money can be used to fund lots of hateful things. It can do a lot of damage.

[EnderD_503]

Ender I don't understand why you say "Corporate scandals = least of lgbt/queer community's worries." Big corporations make lots of money and that money can be used to fund lots of hateful things. It can do a lot of damage.

They do lots of damage every day by merely existing. These sorts of scandals detract from real social issues and basically allow people who don't care to be politically active an avenue to think they're doing some kind of good without actually doing any good. What this restaurant does with its money changes nothing for someone who doesn't have anything to eat to begin with. Whether this restaurant funds anti-lgbt orgs or not, they already promote the continued maltreatment of homeless/low income and other disadvantaged people (including queers) by their very existence. The damage exists with or without their money. Its the entire damned system that is the problem and continues to allow these organisations to exist. Its not going to change anything for the plight of Ugandan lgbt folks or of disadvantaged queer folks in the US.

[BullDog]

Well Ender I think capitalism as an economic system sucks but it's what we have. There's lots and lots of problems in this world.

[aishah]

the issue that i see is that capitalism, at least in the u.s., is built on exploitation and inequality. the capitalist system that we have cannot exist without exploitation and inequality. so personally i have a hard time separating the two. i mean - in an immediate sense - don't spend money at chik-fil-a, spend your queer dollars elsewhere. in a long-term sense - if one is serious about ending poverty, which disproportionately affects women and queer people, and upending the systems of oppression that exist, we are going to have to dismantle the corporate system.

[Kobi]

Many valid and thought provoking points have been made here. Some reactionary, emotion fueled ones have surfaced as well. All are understandable.

This is tricky and very annoying stuff. And everytime it rears its ugly head, I find myself grappling with the same issues:

1. I liked it better when I thought there were simple right and wrong answers to every dilemma. Today, I am pretty sure, there is no absolute right/wrong that fits every person and every situation. There are many points of view and beliefs and it behooves humans to find common ground on which to compromise so that a peaceful coexistence can emerge. It's possible but it removes the drama factor people seem to thrive on.

2. Diversity does not mean only that stuff that is acceptable. Diversity means differences, unlikeness, variety. As such the republicans and religious nutcases have as much right to their beliefs (as idiotic and contradictory as we might find them to be) as we do. If we cannot allow them their diversity, we are hard pressed to demand them to respect ours. I hate this cuz it causes me much grief but I believe it cuz of what I said in #1.

3. Groups that feel threatened act/react much like petulant 2 year olds. If we want to work toward a positive result, someone has to have the balls to put down the shovel, get out of the sandbox, and act like a freakin adult. Be nice if we could trade off on this now and then so all parties can practice being both kids and adults.

4. Ghandi, Martin Luther King......great leaders and thinkers knew hatred wasnt cured with hatred. This is fucking annoying yet true. We cannot fix republican religious hatred by making a mockery of their beliefs. Making a mockery of their beliefs adds to them feeling threatened AND it makes them look like they are being persecuted for their beliefs. This, in turn, makes them more ripe for a sympathetic following by people who ordinarily could care less.

5. Einstein said, insanity is doing the same things over and over and expecting a different result. Yet, we humans, try to solve things by employing the same strategies over and over again. Then we are perplexed when it doesnt work. I dont know what the answer is. But, I am pretty sure it is not going to be found in rehashing the same no-win shit/arguments/stances/strategies over and over and over again.

[BullDog]

Being an informed citizen and consumer is something I can control and do something about. It may not change the world but it is something tangible. And I do think that less money going to hate groups is a very good thing. Anti equality causes and hate groups do cause lots and lots of damage. If I can play a small part in slowing that machine down and not supporting it with my dollars I will.

I will keep an eye on corporations and other entities that help to fund anti equality and hate groups and I will not spend my money with them. That is something tangible that I can do.

[Ciaran]

By a quick calculation, I've spent almost 2 years of my adult life in the United States and, until this controversy, I'd never heard of Chick-fil-a. Not sure why that is but a quick scan at their website indicates that their food is absolute rubbish. Therefore, I don't need to boycott Chick-fil-a as, whether homophobic or not, I wouldn't have been a patron. Similarly, I won't be kissing on Chick-fil-a premises as I'm not really one for public displays of affection, especially in cheap plastic booths (last time I did that, I was 15 or so).



However, just a few observations. The issue of religious views and the purposefulness of engaging with those who have dogmatic "old light" Christian faith. It's already been pointed out by some on this thread that there's little point in trying to use reason to convince someone who believes the bible's Old Testament (or, rather, selected extracts from it) in a literal sense.


That's undoubtedly the case but, furthermore, it's not the religious fanatics that need to be convinced as regards LGBT rights. Rather, it's the middle ground, some of whom hold less repressive religious views and some who are atheist. It's the battle to win the hearts and minds of the middle ground that's key - that's an evolutionary process that is happening through positive representation of LGBT peoples in mainstream society.


Secondly, as much as I admire the attachment that many Americans have to the US Constitution, don't forget that irrespective of whatever freedoms it offers and protection from Government interference, LGBT rights for US citizens are less than those in most other western countries.


Added to that, the US Constitution effectively provides considerable power to the judiciary and, as most of us know, the judiciary can be as personally and politically motivated as any legislature or, for that matter, any human body.


The US Constitution was framed at a time when protection from Government was important. Today, however, it is generally recognised (outside the US) that one of Government's roles is to protect its people (for example, from discriminatory labour practices) i.e. that the framework for a successful society is the Government to protect its people, not for people to need to be protected from Government.


This continued US rhetoric about personal freedoms, in my view, hinders the progression of a society that offers basic protective rights - I was amazed at the chart, assuming it is accurate, that was posted in this thread showing the US states in which it is legal to dismiss employees for being LGBT. Great that the US has a constitution but, me, I prefer substantive rights.

[QueenofSmirks]

The thing about Chick-fil-a is that each individual store is a privately owned franchise, and boycotting just on the basis of the founder's opinion only stands to hurt the private franchise owner first.

<snip>
.


So, your opinion is that it's okay to support a hate-based corporation and put money into the founder's pockets as long as you're only indirectly doing so by owning or supporting one of his franchises?

I can guarantee you if I wanted to open a Dunkin Donuts, and it was owned by Focus on the Family, I would find another franchise to spend my money on.

[QueenofSmirks]

Who said anything about spending money on kiss in day? I say walk in, look around and say loudly, "Babe, this isn't KFC! Oh yea this is that hate place. What brought us here? Oh yea, we are here just to voice our opinion and freedeom of speech that we do not agree with what the owner of Chick Fil A says and his values about marriage. Have a nice day everybody. We are going to KFC now where the chicken and company is finer!" *give your partner a smooch and walk out* LOL! Can you imagine !

I actually don't think this type of behavior does anything positive, in my opinion it's borderline obnoxious. I don't like obnoxious behavior from anyone in public, I don't care who they are or what their problem is. And that type of behavior doesn't get taken seriously, it's only further damages what is already damaged.

I feel pretty much the same way about a "kiss in". What good does that really do? Does anyone really believe a "kiss in" is going to suddenly open people's eyes or change their opinion?

[QueenofSmirks]

Being an informed citizen and consumer is something I can control and do something about. It may not change the world but it is something tangible. And I do think that less money going to hate groups is a very good thing. Anti equality causes and hate groups do cause lots and lots of damage. If I can play a small part in slowing that machine down and not supporting it with my dollars I will.

I will keep an eye on corporations and other entities that help to fund anti equality and hate groups and I will not spend my money with them. That is something tangible that I can do.

I wholeheartedly agree - and I've been doing exactly that for more than 20 years. I have boycotted Dominos, Walmart, Cracker Barrel, and a slew of other companies for as long as I can remember. ChikFilA has been on that list for a couple of years.

Anyone can spend their money however they see fit, including the people associated with ChikFilA, but I'll be damned if one penny of MY money is going to support their bullshit agenda.

[Martina]

I think we should go have sex in front of every one of their businesses. Dirty kinky scary sex. Let's show up in drag. Let's show up naked. Let's show up mad as hell. Let's practice martial arts moves. Let's sing and dance and be our most outrageous selves. And look them in the eye and let them know that nothing they can ever do will make us change or go away.

[not2shygrrl]

I'll take the chance and be honest that it's hard to have these conversations with Christians/Zealots when half the stuff they ate throwing in my direction is based on a book of lies. You can't have a constructive rational conversation with someone who keeps on saying or mentioning Sodom & Gomorrah. It's a lost cause there is zero critical thinking going on and it's totally like arguing with a toddler mid hissy fit.


I don't believe believe ALL Christians behave in this manner. I'm speaking of all the hoards that showed up for a free hate filled sammich. It is one of the most vile things I have seen in my adult life, people had their children in there as they sang God Bless America. These adults are having hate filled conversations regarding LGBTQI people speaking about us as if we're pariah's, as if we we're infesting their "space". It's scary what kind of hate is brewing out there all in the name of "God".


It's hard getting past all the biblical muck just so that the OBVIOUS (which is our rights as citizens) can be discussed.


Some very good points for me in your post, well said.
Their children are the same ones who statistically will become homosexuals one day. Then what? the damage will have started at such a young age complicating matters beyond what already exists.

[girl_dee]

So, your opinion is that it's okay to support a hate-based corporation and put money into the founder's pockets as long as you're only indirectly doing so by owning or supporting one of his franchises?

I can guarantee you if I wanted to open a Dunkin Donuts, and it was owned by Focus on the Family, I would find another franchise to spend my money on.



Me too, i don't want to hear about franchises because the franchise lines the pockets of the hate groups.

[Martina]

Added to that, the US Constitution effectively provides considerable power to the judiciary and, as most of us know, the judiciary can be as personally and politically motivated as any legislature or, for that matter, any human body.

So? As you said, that is true of any institution. The judiciary in the U.S. has a history of protecting minority rights.


The US Constitution was framed at a time when protection from Government was important. Today, however, it is generally recognised (outside the US) that one of Government's roles is to protect its people (for example, from discriminatory labour practices) i.e. that the framework for a successful society is the Government to protect its people, not for people to need to be protected from Government.

Excellent point, but, as you say, not recognized or accepted in the U.S. We sadly have an exaggerated fear of government. You can't get even a liberal to praise government in the U.S. There has been no vision of government as a force for good since Reagan. I watch old episodes of West Wing and pretend they really happened and cry. (just kidding) Anyway, that's lost for now.

This continued US rhetoric about personal freedoms, in my view, hinders the progression of a society that offers basic protective rights - I was amazed at the chart, assuming it is accurate, that was posted in this thread showing the US states in which it is legal to dismiss employees for being LGBT. Great that the US has a constitution but, me, I prefer substantive rights.

Very true. But we are also LOSING these personal freedoms. It would seem like at least a few people care. I am thinking of Ron Paul's youthful followers. (not a supporter of Paul, but there are some hopeful elements in his popularity.) Anyway, during the Bush era, I wondered if anyone did care. And talking about personal freedoms is one way to reach out to people. My students sure care about whether they can be arrested and held without cause. Most people care about how their personal information is used.

And there is no "either or" between the US constitution and substantive rights. In fact, that constitution has helped us guarantee substantive rights, any number of times. VOTING rights, for example. Freedom of the press. You can argue that the market means that we do not get much of a choice when we vote or that the Press has been reduced to cheap entertainment. How little coverage the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have gotten is a national shame.

But these freedoms still mean something. Republicans as we speak are working hard to restrict the franchise (requiring voters to show ID). They have a healthy fear of voters, especially minority voters. That is an encouraging sign.

[girl_dee]

my feelings.......

i would have never had a problem if CFA or anyone else gave every penny of their profit to their own church, or belief organization. What i have an issue with is them giving their money to "ANTI" groups. Anti this and anti that is IMO trying to stop others from doing what they believe in. i feel funneling money and energy into anti groups defeats the whole purpose, what i fear is the gays ending up looking as ridiculous as the people lining up to buy a hate sandwich.

Do what you want, promote your own beliefs all you want but leave everyone else the hell alone.

It's kinda like what Mother Teresa said when they asked her to go to an Anti-War rally, she declined and said "if you have a Pro-Peace rally, i'll be there. "

[MissItalianDiva]

My feelings in a nutshell.....

To each their own on their personal beliefs but we do need to respect one another. Yes Dan Kathy has a right to free speech but what he does not have a right to do is use money to breed hate.

Great article with some great eye opening facts on just where your money is going when you choose to support Chik Fil A....Is this really something we as a society should be agreeing with. These are the organizations Dan Kathy is choosing to support with the public dollar. I wonder if Dan Kathy was donating to organizations such as the Ku Klux Klan would folks still feel Dan Kathy has a right to do so...not likely!

Excerpt

"In 2010 The Family Research Center spent $25,000 lobbying congress to NOT condemn Uganda’s “Kill the Gays” bill. They compare homosexuals to pedophiles and the mentally ill, and claim that they abuse drugs and that they are not discriminated against."
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/08/04/1116743/-Leave-Free-or-Die

Now what really ticks me off is what is now happening to add insult to injury. If the 2 million wasn't enough to anti gay groups now it is being announced that profits from the "appreciation day" up to 30 million are going to be donated to these groups...smh good job at supporting his so called free speech. This is beyond free speech if it was then why does society not feel it is appropriate to support anti black businesses...same concept in my opinion.

http://thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/herman-cain-chick-fil-a-donating-up-to-30-million-to-anti-gay-groups/politics/2012/08/03/45543

Let me add also I do not feel this is a "Christian" issue but an issue of religion and religious zealots. The two are entirely different in my eyes. By definition Christianity is to emulate the thoughts,ideas,and actions of Jesus which if you read the bible Jesus chose to associate and befriend those who others consider lower than others such as the thieves and prostitutes. His actions were those of love,compassion and acceptance unconditionally. Here is the part I do not get with these religious folk...they claim Jesus died on the cross for our sins and that he knew our sins before we ever committed them since he knows the end from the begining. Funny part is about this whole religion thing is that even in the bible it warns about religion and according to the bible the ones who persecuted Jesus were the religious folks. Christian=Christ like...not seeing much of that in all this.

[Nomad]

Yes I agree. If we didn't have such a messy line between the two things would be much better.

one of the messiest of those messy lines is the one written on government issue paper money - "in G*d we trust". cant separate a state from its supposed church when the money that state uses references said church, yanno?

Article - US Treasury Archive (http://www.treasury.gov/about/education/Pages/in-god-we-trust.aspx)

[Soon]

one of the messiest of those messy lines is the one written on government issue paper money - "in G*d we trust". cant separate a state from its supposed church when the money that state uses references said church, yanno?

Article - US Treasury Archive (http://www.treasury.gov/about/education/Pages/in-god-we-trust.aspx)

Canada also has references to God on their money and national anthem, and we seem to have a very clear separation b/w religion and politics as opposed to the USA. Politicians here do not need to profess a certain religious affiliation or belief in god in order to make office; in fact, we get a bit squeamish if one is too public with their faith.

[starryeyes]

OutQ on SirusXM was talking about the Kiss in and Chick-Fil-A, so I called, and got on the radio. I talked about the community service and KFC ideas and stuff and they were *not* very receptive... lol. I think they even cut me off. As is! :-(

Soldiering on....

[LeftWriteFemme]

Jane Lynch Says ‘Fuck Chick-Fil-A'



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/05/jane-lynch-fuck-chick-fil-a_n_1744665.html?utm_hp_ref=gay-voices&ir=Gay%20Voices

[morningstar55]

I think we should go have sex in front of every one of their businesses. Dirty kinky scary sex. Let's show up in drag. Let's show up naked. Let's show up mad as hell. Let's practice martial arts moves. Let's sing and dance and be our most outrageous selves. And look them in the eye and let them know that nothing they can ever do will make us change or go away.

Ok call me a stick in the mud..... but i would subject myself or my partner 4 a demostration, for a public display like that. What would it prove?? Is that what we all want them 2 think?? That we are all about sex !?

[morningstar55]

I think we should go have sex in front of every one of their businesses. Dirty kinky scary sex. Let's show up in drag. Let's show up naked. Let's show up mad as hell. Let's practice martial arts moves. Let's sing and dance and be our most outrageous selves. And look them in the eye and let them know that nothing they can ever do will make us change or go away.

Ok call me a stick in the mud..... but i would not subject myself or my partner 4 a demostration, for a public display like that. What would it prove?? Is that what we all want them 2 think?? That we are all about sex !?

[DMW]

Ok call me a stick in the mud..... but i would not subject myself or my partner 4 a demostration, for a public display like that. What would it prove?? Is that what we all want them 2 think?? That we are all about sex !?


Seriously! Right:|....they might just stop and stare way too much and then film cause they would enjoy it and learn something too...gross. Not on my watch. Gross. Not gonna see me or my girl doin the hippiddy dippitty...

[morningstar55]

Seriously! Right:|....they might just stop and stare way too much and then film cause they would enjoy it and learn something too...gross. Not on my watch. Gross. Not gonna see me or my girl doin the hippiddy dippitty...

Haha ..
hipptiy what??? ... lol

[BullDog]

Now this kiss in front of Chick-fil-a I think is cool. :)

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/600087_505172686174830_421393551_n.jpg

[dreadgeek]

Ok call me a stick in the mud..... but i would subject myself or my partner 4 a demostration, for a public display like that. What would it prove?? Is that what we all want them 2 think?? That we are all about sex !?

I had a very similar thought when I first heard about the kiss-in. One of my axioms for activism is that if possible, never hand the other side the weapon they'll bludgeon you with. It might be a genuinely better world if we *weren't* up against an opposition that was so hung up about sex but since we *are* up against one, we should take that into account when determining what tactics we plan on using. Since we *know* that not just the 'loyal opposition' but many ignorant but otherwise neutral people say things like "what two people do in bed is no concern of mine" what we probably shouldn't do is hand them more ammunition by having a kiss-in which can then be filmed and used in a video against us.

Since we are, rightly in my opinion, claiming the moral mantle of the civil rights movement and since we like to wrap ourselves up in the noble words of Martin Luther King, Jr., we should take lessons from them. One of the most powerful images from that era is a picture of a march where there are a number of marchers carrying a sign that simply reads, "I AM a Man". Simple. Dignified. What could the other side say about it? "No, negro, you aren't a man?" Certainly that was what the segregationists thought but saying that in front of Walter Cronkite, God and Everybody would only make them look worse than they already did. One of the brilliant tactics that my parent's generation adopted was to *not* hand the other side the rhetorical weapon with which to be beaten up with. The counter sit-in protestors didn't have kiss ins, they went to Woolworth's, they sat with dignity and let themselves be dragged away from the counter when their only offense was wanting a sandwich and a Coke which they were willing to pay for if they could get service.

I understand that this statement isn't going to be popular because it appears to concede to much to the other side but I don't think that it does concede that much. I'm not even going so far as to suggest we shouldn't be as queer-as-we-wanna-be as a matter of going about our daily lives. I am saying that since we *know* the other side wants to paint us as sex obsessed and out of control, what we shouldn't do is hand them the opportunity to say "see! Look what the queer people did, they came into the lobby of this company that *clearly* doesn't want their business and started making out in the lobby!" We would do much better boycotting Chik-fil-a than trying to go for shock value which the kiss-in is designed to do; frighten the horses and shock the mundanes.

Cheers
Aj

[Corkey]

We buy from shops and products who support our rights, we do not buy from or support those who don't. Money sends a better message, no matter how one feels about marriage rights.

[ruffryder]

Chick-Fil-A vows to stop donating to groups that oppose gay marriage including Focus on the Family and National Organization for Marriage. They said of their employees, "Discrimination will not be tolerated."


http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-chick-fil-a-gay-20120920,0,4334485.story

[Corkey]

That whole apology thing...wrong!

http://www.advocate.com/business/2012/09/20/chick-fil-raising-money-very-week-anti-marriage-equality-group