SOPA/PIPA: What and why

[Linus]

So today you may have noticed some weird things going on. Google has a black bar doodle, some sites have gone dark and so on. These two bills, Stop Online Piracy Act (SOPA) and Protect Intellectual Property Act (PIPA), are supposed to be bills that stop individuals from posting copyrighted material (e.g., music, TV shows, movies) and that if they do post it and someone reports them as posting it, that all search engines and advertising partners must stop providing links and/or payments to those sites.

Here's the catches: the site that hosts them and the ad sites will also be held liable. And, those actions have to occur BEFORE any verification and without warrant issued that a site is indeed doing "bad things".

Now, personally, I don't give two shits about copyright violation. In the grander scheme of things, most of the music and video that has been "shared" out there is crap. Pure and simple and an utter waste of time. I will buy legit DVDs of good TV shows and movies; and spend a near fortune on decent music from iTunes.

But I have a serious issue with these two proposed laws. As someone who remembers that the Internet wasn't meant to be an advertising platform but rather a place to share ideas and learn (why I remember when the internet was only in text and didn't have any of these fancy fangled pictures). This ideal of sharing ideas and learning is actually still the core of internet behaviour. This site is a good example.

And this site is a prime example of a site that could be shut down because someone didn't like what a member posted. It could kill us, to be very honest. We don't take advertising and we're more word of mouth but our provider would be required to shut us down if someone posted something (intentionally or otherwise) that is copyrighted **OR** someone reports us as doing that (whether true or not).

And to add to this (for those of you who live elsewhere and think it won't apply.. err.. it will). Part of what makes these bills challenging is the way that they define "domestic" and "foreign": it goes based on the name of the site. For example, my personal site is hosted in Canada (I was too lazy to move it to the US) but the domain name (syrlinus.com) was created here in the US (SOPA defines all ".com" names as "domestic", regardless of which DNS server hosts it). That means if I "violated" copyright (maybe I post up a picture or words to a song) then my site could be shut down. So how can I voice my opinions and views if I'm shut down and have no avenue to address?

So take a few minutes and write your Senatorcritter or Congresscritter and tell them that you don't want these bills as they are written. They are too vague and too broad in their attempt to address the issue they want to. I've provided some more links below, including Google's link to a petition you can sign.

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/200/488/SOPAinfographic.png


Wikipedia's Entry on SOPA/PIPA
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_Online_Piracy_Act)
Google's Entry on SOPA/PIPA (petition here) (https://www.google.com/landing/takeaction/)

Reddit's breakdown of SOPA/PIPA (http://blog.reddit.com/2012/01/technical-examination-of-sopa-and.html)

[ScandalAndy]

Thanks for the links!!!

I went to wikipedia this morning and used their search to locate my representatives and have already sent my letters via email (fitting, yes?). I'm printing out hard copies to snail mail this afternoon.

Didn't know about the google petition, headed over there now.

Thanks again!

[Sachita]

They are always presenting these fucking witch hunt bills. I think its more about censorship then anything else. People scream copyright violation but don't realize that they cut their own nose to spite their face.

[theoddz]

They are always presenting these fucking witch hunt bills. I think its more about censorship then anything else. People scream copyright violation but don't realize that they cut their own nose to spite their face.

Yes, indeed they are.

But it is a reminder of just how fragile our perceived freedoms are.

Apparently, freedom is "freedom", but only as long as it doesn't step on someone else's toes?? I, personally, see the world changing....profoundly so. I always want to look at the bigger picture, so to speak, and recognize that things like this are part of a larger grand plan to subjugate others and control the masses, ultimately.

So, put on your tin foil caps and let me throw this two words out there.....mind control.

~Theo~ :bouquet:

[Sachita]

Yes, indeed they are.

But it is a reminder of just how fragile our perceived freedoms are.

Apparently, freedom is "freedom", but only as long as it doesn't step on someone else's toes?? I, personally, see the world changing....profoundly so. I always want to look at the bigger picture, so to speak, and recognize that things like this are part of a larger grand plan to subjugate others and control the masses, ultimately.

So, put on your tin foil caps and let me throw this two words out there.....mind control.

~Theo~ :bouquet:

OMG don't get me started! lol I am so over the US! Our government does nothing but engage in organized crime. I see an acceleration of control especially lately as the rush to the next election. Obama has sold out and it make me ill to think who will step in next.

[UofMfan]

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j269/translator08/SOPA.jpg

[Medusa]

This bill is super scary.

To think that I could wake up one morning to a message from our hosting company that our content has been blocked because of someone's complaint (that hasn't been investigated) makes me sick.

The fact of the matter is that this bill will put a lot of power into the hands of malicious trolls and people with with axes to grind. This site has already been the target of at least 2 trolls who contacted our hosting company with ridiculous bogus claims of "internet bullying" (which our host investigated and found that both people had zeros basis for their claims except for butthurt feelings over getting banned).

This bill means that anyone on this site making reference to a movie by posting a link to a trailer, or quoting a song or part of a book would essentially put the site in jeopardy of being shut down.

In the grand scheme of things, it will stifle our freedom of speech.

This bill means that our internet will become very similar to how the internet operates in China, where the government has most of the control over the content of what people see.

It is imperative that we sign this petition.

[Amber2010]

Thanks so much for the links.
This bill is so very Scary for all of us. :(

[Sachita]

Medusa have you thought about a mailing list for members that elect to join? Names, addresses and even phone numbers (for phone blast updates) ?
I would want my name on it. In the event anything happens we network like they did in the old days- remember mail? lol

Does anyone remember BBS systems? I owned a few back in the early 90's. 32 phone lines coming into my house, all accessing the same PC. I honestly have my doubts that this will get passed but seeing what is happening in the GMO and food safety front (doesnt matter how many people petition) it could. I think we should be prepared to keep our community together.

[Linus]

Medusa have you thought about a mailing list for members that elect to join? Names, addresses and even phone numbers (for phone blast updates) ?
I would want my name on it. In the event anything happens we network like they did in the old days- remember mail? lol

Does anyone remember BBS systems? I owned a few back in the early 90's. 32 phone lines coming into my house, all accessing the same PC. I honestly have my doubts that this will get passed but seeing what is happening in the GMO and food safety front (doesnt matter how many people petition) it could. I think we should be prepared to keep our community together.

I think we can. We'll have to look at email providers outside of the US with an alternate domain (e.g., butchfemmeplanet.ca) so that SOPA cannot reach the list and shut it down. One of the bigger challenges that I see is that while the current White House has said no to it, if Obama is turfed out and a Rep president comes in, they'll likely bring it in since they were one of the main advocates of the changes to the 4th Amendment..

[Quintease]

http://www.geekculture.com/joyoftech/joyimages/1641dark.gifhttp://www.geekculture.com/joyoftech/joyarchives/1641.html

[Sachita]

No Linus I mean REAL MAIL- the kind you put a stamp on? lol I know its a distant memory but its going on!

an email list is fine but snail mail at least is a back up for networking, events, socials etc. A

also you could, if it came down to it, set up a computer BBS with forums, chat, etc. Today with the voice over internet phone services, allow people to dial in. Have you ever been in a BBS system before? Most are ansi but pretty much the same- forums, newsgroups, chat, etc.

hmmm I wonder by using a VOIP phone dialed direct into a one computer means it part of the internet? Hmmmm not if you had a bank of number and people called in using their own voip service. My brain is hurting now, I'll stop. lol

[Sachita]

I use to operate worldgroup which was called glacticom way back then. I'm sure you can still get bbs software. The key is making it independent of internet.

People could play games, upload pics, pretty much everything you see without all the GUI interface. Users purchased credits to become members.

[Softhearted]

As someone who has worked in the world of music for about 20 years, I'm very sensitive to issues concerning copyright and intellectual property.

I hear a lot of uproar against SOPA and how bad it is but what would be your solution to stop piracy then?

People who work in the music, artistic industries should not work for free... and I'm not talking only about the artists per say... Many people are involved, from the guy who work in the CD packaging to the seller in a store...

Just my .02 cents

[SuddenlyWestFemme]

I sent my emails this morning. Grrrrrrr... the irony to me is how many republicans are for these bills. Isn't their whole platform supposed to be LESS government??!! Grrrrrrr....

Okay, I do understand that these bills have democrat and republican support and in fact are being sponsored by representatives of BOTH parties - but I never understand why republicans care so much about the government getting involved in these types of things (I include gay marriage in my wondering, but that's another issue) when their whole platform is 'LESS government'. Grrrrrrr....

[Linus]

As someone who has worked in the world of music for about 20 years, I'm very sensitive to issues concerning copyright and intellectual property.

I hear a lot of uproar against SOPA and how bad it is but what would be your solution to stop piracy then?

People who work in the music, artistic industries should not work for free... and I'm not talking only about the artists per say... Many people are involved, from the guy who work in the CD packaging to the seller in a store...

Just my .02 cents


The reality is that copyright infringement/piracy will never stop. The internet really caused this to explode and be more visible but it was done before the internet and will continue well beyond the current way the way the internet is. Part of it is cultural and part of it is technological. The reality is that this law is too broad.

I think that perhaps things aren't being address accurately. It has to be addressed two ways:

1. With things stored locally
2. Things stored outside of borders.

Locally (federally) can be address in regards to local laws. If the law had a mechanism where verification was done to ensure that reports were valid and that even the whistle blower wasn't a target (which under SOPA they could be). The realm of the FBI's white collar task force would be an appropriate law enforcement arm to work on this (since it would cross statelines due to the nature of the internet).

Internationally, treaties and in-state police task forces would be a better way to deal with those outside the border. Each state needs to create laws to address this and it should match what is agreed to on the treaty and should have similar minimum sentencing rules. Again, it should be based on verifiable information and not just because someone blows the whistle.

A bad law to address an issue is not better than no law to address it. If anything, it makes things worse.

[SuddenlyWestFemme]

I hear a lot of uproar against SOPA and how bad it is but what would be your solution to stop piracy then?

People who work in the music, artistic industries should not work for free... and I'm not talking only about the artists per say... Many people are involved, from the guy who work in the CD packaging to the seller in a store...

Just my .02 cents

I also worked in the arts industry for a long time.

I don't really have an answer except to say that theft has always been a part of the industry. Many movies have been piloted through the ages. I can't tell you how many friends of mine made tapes for me off of records and other tapes. And at the time, I never even thought of it as theft. Listen to Lady Gaga and then Madonna (especially the "Express Yourself" song) and you can see how much 'borrowing' is going on. It used to be if someone shoplifted a CD, the people hurt were the storeowners and employees. With the internet that hurt has gone directly to artists more often.

I don't have an answer, but most artists I know wouldn't want the internet to shut down sites - without thorough and proper investigation - to protect them. It is very hard to be a successful artist without free speech and not being able to speak on this 'site' is a form of sensorship.

And one more side note. Pricing is based on expected theft. The reason everything is so expensive is because the industry now understands that there will be theft and they make up for it. I doubt that things will become cheaper for us to buy once we can't get onto our favorite websites.

[Kätzchen]

I signed the petition.

[Softhearted]

So basically, there is no real solutions.... Good thing I left the music world... that was the main reason actually, sick and tired of seeing people not respect intellectual property and so on... in order to save a few dollars...

I switched to science, being the naive person I am, but no difference. I was looking today at sites and people writing about a specific subject... citing studies but with no actual sources

Hopefully, people will learn at least to cite their sources on internet sites... For me, it is a way to show some respect to intellectual property.

Again my 0.02 cents

[Linus]

So basically, there is no real solutions.... Good thing I left the music world... that was the main reason actually, sick and tired of seeing people not respect intellectual property and so on... in order to save a few dollars...

I switched to science, being the naive person I am, but no difference. I was looking today at sites and people writing about a specific subject... citing studies but with no actual sources

Hopefully, people will learn at least to cite their sources on internet sites... For me, it is a way to show some respect to intellectual property.

Again my 0.02 cents

Laws that exist about not killing others hasn't stopped people from doing it. Even extreme solutions to those actions hasn't stopped them. While I wish that people were more respectful of each other, human nature is what prevents this.

We could try to control a person's life from start to finish to ensure that they are perfectly made so that they do not do the things we like but that isn't a solution either as that will stifle the creative spirit as well. When I was a professor I was insist on citing sources but few do that. I actually had to educate 3yr and 4th yr students. In college. :blink: I knew that in grade 9 so I wasn't sure what happened to education since when I graduated to current times other than information being even more freer.

The suggestions I put forward as ways to address this are potential solutions but there is no perfect solution. That is unrealistic. But I still stand by the fact that these laws do not help and, in fact, hinder -- particularly smaller entities who could effectively be shut down and not have any mechanism to recover. How is that better than what exists now?

ETA: and, I realized I should have asked one more question: in your opinion, how would this be better addressed? Do you think that SOPA/PIPA are sufficient or do you have a better solution on how to protect IP/copyright?

[Sachita]

I also worked in the arts industry for a long time.

I don't really have an answer except to say that theft has always been a part of the industry. Many movies have been piloted through the ages. I can't tell you how many friends of mine made tapes for me off of records and other tapes. And at the time, I never even thought of it as theft. Listen to Lady Gaga and then Madonna (especially the "Express Yourself" song) and you can see how much 'borrowing' is going on. It used to be if someone shoplifted a CD, the people hurt were the storeowners and employees. With the internet that hurt has gone directly to artists more often.

I don't have an answer, but most artists I know wouldn't want the internet to shut down sites - without thorough and proper investigation - to protect them. It is very hard to be a successful artist without free speech and not being able to speak on this 'site' is a form of sensorship.

And one more side note. Pricing is based on expected theft. The reason everything is so expensive is because the industry now understands that there will be theft and they make up for it. I doubt that things will become cheaper for us to buy once we can't get onto our favorite websites.

This is true but that pirating also contributes to traffic and exposure. Any successful marketing plan needs to allow for a percentage of this. I also feel the music industry raped the public prior to charging 20 bucks for a CD? But this thread is not about that. But I do get your point.

[Cin]

The thing is piracy is more a service issue than one of censorship. Thieves will find ways to steal and peddle their wares no matter the restrictions. The way to win the war against piracy is to provide better service than you will get by illegally viewing or using copyrighted material. SOPA is about censorship and is akin to closing down a bookstore or a library because an author may or may not have practiced plagiarism. And at it’s core it is about controlling the flow of information on the internet and controlling it globally. The US has been applying pressure on other countries to join in using economic sanctions. This is one of those tricks the corporate controlled government is so good at confusing us with by using smoke and mirrors combined with the street hustler’s old game of 3 card monte. SOPA is not what it professes to be. It's about curtailing freedom, like so many laws being passed by the government. The internet should be protected. It needs to remain free. It is the greatest equalizer I have ever seen in this world. Information is available equally to anyone who can find a computer to use. To be coerced or hoodwinked into giving that up would be catastrophic.

[UofMfan]

Obama Says So Long SOPA, Killing Controversial Internet Piracy Legislation ~ Forbes (http://www.forbes.com/sites/johngaudiosi/2012/01/16/obama-says-so-long-sopa-killing-controversial-internet-piracy-legislation/)

[Cin]

Interesting info in regards to piracy:

Numbers Cited By SOPA Supporters May Be Fictitious
Sacrilege's picture
Submitted by Sacrilege on 01/18/2012 18:16 -0500

Ignoring, momentarily, that the U.S. has already adopted international law which seeks to curtail online piracy (see, e.g., DMCA), and that these new bills seek to do little more than enact what amounts to police powers over foreign companies, it looks like the studies cited in support of piracy-gone-rampant may have never have existed. Julian Sanchez, a researcher at the Cato Institute, did his level best at tracking down the research behind the near-absurd numbers (the industry claims nearly $250B lost in revenues a year, and 750,000 lost jobs), but instead found only circular references.

So then, you may be asking yourself: how much does piracy actually cost the entertainment industry? $89MM. What’s the U.S. Taxpayer cost to enact new legislation (SOPA)? $47MM, by Sanchez’s estimates. That's 52.8 cents of U.S. Taxpayer money spent for every dollar in private enterprise saved, if the system works (which it won't), when there already likely exists a private remedy (private action in the host country).

From the GAO:

“First, a number of industry, media, and government publications have cited an FBI estimate that U.S. businesses lose $200-$250 billion to counterfeiting on an annual basis. This estimate was contained in a 2002 FBI press release, but FBI officials told us that it has no record of source data or methodology for generating the estimate and that it cannot be corroborated.

Second, a 2002 CBP press release contained an estimate that U.S. businesses and industries lose $200 billion a year in revenue and 750,000 jobs due to counterfeits of merchandise. However, a CBP official stated that these figures are of uncertain origin, have been discredited, and are no longer used by CBP. A March 2009 CBP internal memo was circulated to inform staff not to use the figures. However, another entity within DHS continues to use them.”

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/numbers-cited-sopa-supporters-may-be-fictitious

[Kobi]

Yesterday's internet-wide protest may not have killed Congress's anti-piracy efforts completely, but a lot of legislators (including some co-sponsors) suddenly can't run away from the bills fast enough. According to Ars Technica's count, 18 Senators, mostly Republican, have withdrawn their support for the Protect IP Act in the last 24 hours, including seven former co-sponsors. Roy Blunt of Missouri (pictured), is another one of the co-sponsors who turned on the bill, following Marco Rubio's lead. Most are now calling PIPA "flawed" or "not ready for prime time," but since they didn't seem to feel that way on Tuesday, it's pretty clear that Wednesday's public protests have had at least some of their desired effect.

Oddly enough, the defectors are skewing heavily Republican, though perhaps it shouldn't be that surprising since the architects of the bill are mostly media corporations that tend to be more left leaning. (As is Christopher Dodd, the current head of the Motion Picture Association of American, who used to be a Democratic Senator.) The truth is that the legislation is one of the few movements to not be divided evenly along party lines, but anti-SOPA opposition did get key endorsements from the Heritage Foundation and RedState.com.

The bills have not been completely taken off the table yet, but support is definitely waning and we may soon see a bipartisan effort to put them down for good. At the very least, they're both going to need some script doctoring before they find their way to the House and Senate floors.

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/national/2012/01/republicans-bail-sopapipa-after-yesterdays-internet-blackout/47592/

[Linus]

What was interesting was that 3 of the sponsors were found to have copyrighted material on their websites --- without approval from the artist (as per the Rachel Maddow clip I saw last night). While their levels would not be enough to violate SOPA, the principle, IMO, is what they violated.