Modern Manners - Facebook et al

[genghisfawn]

So I was going on dates with someone recently - just dates. I was clear that I am enjoying being single and just dating but that I am open to taking things slow, etc. Hy seemed fine with this and said hy was enjoying the same.

Fast forward. Seems hy's carrying on a rather intense romance with someone via Facebook. This is someone hy's never met and never will meet (too far, too expensive, etc.) I ask hym to please let her know hy's also dating other people, just to be fair to her.

Hy starts getting a little on the odd side. I'm not saying mean or weird, but definitely starting to crowd my space too much. I redraw my boundaries in the nicest way possible, and ask hym to please give me a little time. The next day hy's changed hys relationship status to reflect that hy and this girl are in a relationship.

So the question is:

Are modern manners so bad nowadays that it's no longer just the height of rudeness to have to find out via e-mail that one is no longer eligible for dates, but indirectly via social media? Is this okay? I'm actually so stymied by the rudeness of it all - rather, the rudeness I perceive - that I'm really not sure if it's okay at all.

[Passionaria]

I think your feelings are spot on. I think rude is a mild word. Its inconsiderate, and emotionally immature. Lack of moral fiber in my opinion.

I think that it is easy to be cold, behave badly, or callously when you don't have to look someone in the eye. It's like breaking up with someone you have been intimate with over the phone, or text. Really? It's cowardly, in my opinion. Sometimes I think all this quick media can breed shallowness.

The upshot? Thank goodness you learned about this persons lack of communication skills before letting your heart get too involved. Sometimes a long distance, I've never met you but "love you" situation is perfect for someone with intimacy issues, because it never gets too "real".

[pajama]

I agree with what Passionaria says. But I do believe it is the new norm. Doesn't make it right, or tasteful. But there have been MANY changes over the years that don't feel are right or tasteful to me. It's just the way alot of society seems to be heading.

[Ciaran]

Fast forward. Seems hy's carrying on a rather intense romance with someone via Facebook. This is someone hy's never met and never will meet (too far, too expensive, etc.) I ask hym to please let her know hy's also dating other people, just to be fair to her.


The next day hy's changed hys relationship status to reflect that hy and this girl are in a relationship.



I must be out of touch with modern reality but how can people have any sort of romance, esp. at an intense level, via facebook or other online media?

In my rather simple, socially conservative mind, you can flirt online, you can even crush a bit online ..... but I'm not sure how you can become romantically involved "online" unless it also includes some form of real-time, real-life contact with the online aspect being an additional channel but not the only channel through which the romance is played out.

As for this individual now being in a "relationship" with someone he has never met and never will meet ..... that's just too bizarre for my comprehension.

[Daktari]

I must be out of touch with modern reality but how can people have any sort of romance, esp. at an intense level, via facebook or other online media?

In my rather simple, socially conservative mind, you can flirt online, you can even crush a bit online ..... but I'm not sure how you can become romantically involved "online" unless it also includes some form of real-time, real-life contact with the online aspect being an additional channel but not the only channel through which the romance is played out.

As for this individual now being in a "relationship" with someone he has never met and never will meet ..... that's just too bizarre for my comprehension.



Ditto.....

[Hollylane]

I am beginning to think that some become addicted to relationships that are online, via email, chat, Skype, phone, etc. Kind of like porn addiction. Some watch porn and become so enamored of porn type sex, that they cannot perform actual sex, or at least can't have actual sex without porn as the catalyst.

I am not speaking of anyone I have interacted with on this site or the dash site. Just on things I hear from friends about "the meeting" that is promised and retracted again and again, and when it appears there is no other way out of "the meeting", the relationship comes to a screeching halt via well aimed arguments, leaving the person who is actually wanting to meet, feeling responsible.

Edited to add...I do think it is possible to fall in love via electronic communication, in the same way it was possible to fall in love in the days of yore via romantic handwritten letters.

[genghisfawn]

I must be out of touch with modern reality but how can people have any sort of romance, esp. at an intense level, via facebook or other online media?

In my rather simple, socially conservative mind, you can flirt online, you can even crush a bit online ..... but I'm not sure how you can become romantically involved "online" unless it also includes some form of real-time, real-life contact with the online aspect being an additional channel but not the only channel through which the romance is played out.

As for this individual now being in a "relationship" with someone he has never met and never will meet ..... that's just too bizarre for my comprehension.

I find it bizarre. Like you, I find it possible to flirt online and to get crushes on people online, but if you want to take it to the relationship level you really have to meet and get to know each other properly before you do that.

I guess I was just disappointed because it seems all hy really wanted was a local warm body. :(

[Quintease]

Perhaps hy did tell her that he was dating other people and that spurred on their commitment?

It's hard to sit on the fence when you know your beloved has other options.

[genghisfawn]

Perhaps hy did tell her that he was dating other people and that spurred on their commitment?

It's hard to sit on the fence when you know your beloved has other options.

Yes, I can see that. I'm not objecting to their being together - they're perfectly welcome to live their lives. What I was objecting to was that I had to find out about it via hys changed relationship status on Facebook. No phone call, no e-mail, nothing. Just assuming that I shouldn't even be told.

[The_Lady_Snow]

I say good riddance, and NEXT!!!! That's the fun thing about dating you can move on to the next dating experience!!!

[genghisfawn]

No big loss, indeed! Best to find out now. :)

I was only stymied by the sudden plunge in dating etiquette since I last dated.

[Sachita]

I am quickly turned off by game players and can normally spot this right away. One of my new rules, within the past few years, is that I won't interact with someone who has no history or isn't visible to some degree. I ask for their facebook account because I want to know that they are a real person, have friends, family and not hiding a bunch of shit. I've actually given my number to someone who called me and blocked their caller ID. lol I didn't bother answering. I knew who it was and told them I don't play those games.

I don't have a lot of free time for dabbling. I want to know that if I'm investing time that I at least end up with a great friend. I'll carefully watch someone and if it seems like they are emotionally immature, constantly changing their relationship status, always complaining, negative , etc. I file them under acquaintance. If you're on the fence about wanting to ge close with me then it means you ain't working hard enough to get and keep my attention, therefore you'll most likely lose my interest.

[1QuirkyKiwi]

These head-games online are one of the reasons I don’t have Facebook and Twitter. Emails are just a small part of dating for me; real time is where I’m comfortable. I can’t and won’t fall in love with a woman I’ve never met in person, nor spent time with face to face.

Anyone who doesn’t have any manners, respect or understanding of boundaries is not going to be a part of my life.

[MysticOceansFL]

These head-games online are one of the reasons I don’t have Facebook and Twitter. Emails are just a small part of dating for me; real time is where I’m comfortable. I can’t and won’t fall in love with a woman I’ve never met in person, nor spent time with face to face.

Anyone who doesn’t have any manners, respect or understanding of boundaries is not going to be a part of my life.





Ms Kiwigal, I so agree with you 100% I'm very much the same way also.:glasses:

[atomiczombie]

I am someone who firmly believes that you can't really genuinely fall for someone or love them until you really know them, and you can't really know someone until you spend time with them and in person. And not just a couple dates, it takes time to get to know someone. Someone who falls fast for me or falls in love just from a few emails, chats, etc, that is a red flag for me because they don't really know me. They are falling in love with some image they have of me, and not the real me, since they don't really know me.

It sounds like this person you were dating, genghisfaw, is really immature and you dodged a bullet. Good luck on your dating adventures! :)

[adorable]

I’m going to take some liberties and answer this entire post. Of course, I am basing this entirely on your post and may not have all the information I need to actually figure it out. I rarely do. And my answers are from the perspective of someone who owns the The Complete Shakespeare and has memorized entire sonnets. In the responses to posts like this it's easy for me to "spot the scientist" lol, rarely will you find a poet that uses the words logic and love in the same stanza.

So...my take for what it's worth.

So I was going on dates with someone recently - just dates. I was clear that I am enjoying being single and just dating but that I am open to taking things slow, etc. Hy seemed fine with this and said hy was enjoying the same. – This is fairly standard I think.
Fast forward. Seems hy's carrying on a rather intense romance with someone via Facebook. – No hy’s not, hy just wants you to think he is.
This is someone hy's never met and never will meet (too far, too expensive, etc.) –Here is the proof.
I ask hym to please let her know hy's also dating other people, just to be fair to her. - Hy was hoping you’d say that.
Hy starts getting a little on the odd side. –Again, fairly standard.
I'm not saying mean or weird, but definitely starting to crowd my space too much. – Further proof that the other girl probably doesn’t exist.
I redraw my boundaries in the nicest way possible, and ask hym to please give me a little time. –This likely hurt hys feelings, so to seem like hy didn’t care…The next day hy's changed hys relationship status to reflect that hy and this girl are in a relationship.
-because you responded before and hy is hoping for the same. Hey, jealousy. (Also a great song by the Cranberries btw)

So the question is:

Are modern manners so bad nowadays that it's no longer just the height of rudeness to have to find out via e-mail that one is no longer eligible for dates, but indirectly via social media? Yes.
Is this okay? People don’t stop being people online. Even if it’s all true and there is some girl in South Beach, or wherever, this is no different than the guy that suddenly stopped calling when you thought it was going so well. Back in the dark ages, (you know, back before Al Gore invented the internet,) the only way we knew why they stopped calling was if we happened to see them out with another girl.
I'm actually so stymied by the rudeness of it all - rather, the rudeness I perceive - that I'm really not sure if it's okay at all. –Well, no it’s not technically ok. Dating, love, relationships, people are all so complicated, most of it’s not ok. It does serve as a delicious distraction though from the repetitive tasks people have to accomplish every day. (And serve to create great works of literature.) Hollylane is very right, I think. How we fall in love or when or why has no bearing on the circumstances we found ourselves in when it happened. Why do you care if “she” knows that hy is dating other people since you told him you were happy being single? I think you showed your hand when hys online “relationship” bothered you. So now (it seems to me) you have two choices. It depends on how much you actually like hym. If playing games really bothers you, and some people it really does, then it sounds like your decision will be easy. If playing games doesn’t bother you...it would be fairly easy to sink his Battleship. The game (when speaking of love or baseball or Scrabble), when played well (or even badly) by two people of like minds, is one of the most thrilling experiences of all time. (imo)

[chai~]

Edited to add...I do think it is possible to fall in love via electronic communication, in the same way it was possible to fall in love in the days of yore via romantic handwritten letters.


I agree with this in the sense of the mind being a powerful sexual organ, and for me, it all starts in my brain.

Words chosen carefully, inuendo, intrigue. Deep conversations, idea's and opinions discussed. To me, all important stuff.

Physical attraction can be just that, superficial and shallow.

I would rather be someone's friend first with stuff to talk about, then to jump into some relationship with a person who doesn't tweek my mind.

What I would NOT do is, let the talking get too racy, because eventually if people choose to meet, and the physical connection isn't there, well, it's just disappointing and embarrasing!!!

Now as for the bad manners...I also agree with the changing of the times....but how do we get manners back? Or do we just suck it up and become those old geezers who complain about the "good ole days", when people would say please and thank you, and I don't want to see you anymore, to your face!!!!

A text or relationship status change is so nice and tidy and drama free.

Blah blah blah, go ahead, dump me by text, show me what you're really made of!

[Vlasta]

I must be out of touch with modern reality but how can people have any sort of romance, esp. at an intense level, via facebook or other online media?

In my rather simple, socially conservative mind, you can flirt online, you can even crush a bit online ..... but I'm not sure how you can become romantically involved "online" unless it also includes some form of real-time, real-life contact with the online aspect being an additional channel but not the only channel through which the romance is played out.

As for this individual now being in a "relationship" with someone he has never met and never will meet ..... that's just too bizarre for my comprehension.

thanks for saying since I feel the same way . Too bizarre for me !

[Sachita]

I agree with this in the sense of the mind being a powerful sexual organ, and for me, it all starts in my brain.

Words chosen carefully, inuendo, intrigue. Deep conversations, idea's and opinions discussed. To me, all important stuff.

Physical attraction can be just that, superficial and shallow.

I would rather be someone's friend first with stuff to talk about, then to jump into some relationship with a person who doesn't tweek my mind.

What I would NOT do is, let the talking get too racy, because eventually if people choose to meet, and the physical connection isn't there, well, it's just disappointing and embarrasing!!!

Now as for the bad manners...I also agree with the changing of the times....but how do we get manners back? Or do we just suck it up and become those old geezers who complain about the "good ole days", when people would say please and thank you, and I don't want to see you anymore, to your face!!!!

A text or relationship status change is so nice and tidy and drama free.

Blah blah blah, go ahead, dump me by text, show me what you're really made of!

I'm glad you brought this up because too often you meet someone and although I'm ok with with some casual flirting I find it offensive when someone engages in sexual innuendos or phone sex. wow thats a long sentence! lol

I understand that you want to make sure that you're compatible sexually but there's no way we'll even get to all that unless I like & respect you. You've got to stimulate my mind before my panties come off. lol

A lot can happen in cyber world especially among lonely people. It's easy to dream and create false emotions and lustful intentions only to have reality come crashing down. I need so much more before I can go there sexually. Trust me, I'm pretty open minded but just not casual when it comes to sex. For me sex is a sacred and intimate act I preserve for those I find worthy.

If someone really wants me they will make me their direct focus and they won't be all over the place. If not I won't give you the time of day.

[Sachita]

Oh one more thing about facebook....

I don't use it for dating. I use it for my business, to stay connected with family and friends. I'm extremely busy. I invite someone to have a look at my world. I have nothing to hide. Look at my beautiful family, study what is important to me, etc. Ultimately my choice to find a partner will be based on many factors and its nice to see how they interact with the rest of the world. OMG I wish I had this soooo many times in the past. If someone doesnt have pics of themselves, family and friends then what are they really hiding? I don't even want to invest in friendships with people I can't get to know other then email. Although I would not carry on a relationship online or facebook I find it a wonderful venue for getting to know someone.

[adorable]

Facebook simply doesn't work at any level for dating. I'm not even so sure it's great for relationships. There are lots of reasons I don't like it. The picture you get of someone, that's real of course, (I have plenty of gaming friends on there who have accounts for their dog or cat) can be exciting or you can start to see things. You see thier world, but you can't interpret it. There isn't enough of the right information that dating gives you. I would also say that with someone that you're dating, that it's way too much accessibility to your life. (imo) At least from a romantic standpoint. Not old fashioned dating for sure. Dating, or relational development, is difficult with so many means of communication. The idea that you should have access like that is a newer one, I think. Romance in found the mysterious and in surprise. In longing. Not in knowing they just bought a blender.

[genghisfawn]

[COLOR="Magenta"]Why do you care if “she” knows that hy is dating other people since you told him you were happy being single? I think you showed your hand when hys online “relationship” bothered you.

Thanks for your reply!

I wish I could explain what I was actually feeling... when I asked hym to be fair and tell her that hy was seeing other people, it was because hy was complaining to me about her clinginess but also hadn't told her about me or anyone else. So, because I was unimpressed by this disingenuity, I asked hym to at least talk to her and clarify that hy was seeing other people. I was rather upset - I even excused myself very nicely and went home to think.

I started the thread mainly because I wanted to know if this Facebook passive-aggression was common. It's never happened to me because I've been in relationships while Facebook was gaining popularity, and I'm just stymied by how much importance people lend it in everyday life.

[girl_dee]

modern day Dear Jane/John letters...

People either have it in their character to be respectful or they don't.

[adorable]

Thanks for your reply!

I wish I could explain what I was actually feeling... when I asked hym to be fair and tell her that hy was seeing other people, it was because hy was complaining to me about her clinginess but also hadn't told her about me or anyone else. So, because I was unimpressed by this disingenuity, I asked hym to at least talk to her and clarify that hy was seeing other people. I was rather upset - I even excused myself very nicely and went home to think.

I started the thread mainly because I wanted to know if this Facebook passive-aggression was common. It's never happened to me because I've been in relationships while Facebook was gaining popularity, and I'm just stymied by how much importance people lend it in everyday life.


Oh, I think most of us have been there with not being able to explain what we are feeling. I think what I have tried to embrace is exactly that. Fighting it seems, well, pointless. It really is ok if I can't explain it. More will be revealed. :) Always.

I can be guilty of outsmarting myself sometimes. This is why facebook is not so great when you are into someone. The risk is in revealing too much or wanting to know more. Passive-aggressiveness when it comes to dating is common because it's very much a cat and mouse game. Outright aggression is frowned upon, that is why we refer to it as "the dance." Yet, unless we are aggressive somehow, or have some sort of strategy, we will never get what we really want. The trick is in knowing when to risk and what. Being good at poker, or chess, (or a war historian) comes in handy.

Having conversations like the one you described is more like baiting, or hym trying to force your hand. Kind of a high school tactic on hys part, but everyone isn't working at the same skill level. lol.

[JustJo]

Edited to add...I do think it is possible to fall in love via electronic communication, in the same way it was possible to fall in love in the days of yore via romantic handwritten letters.


I agree with this in the sense of the mind being a powerful sexual organ, and for me, it all starts in my brain.

Words chosen carefully, inuendo, intrigue. Deep conversations, idea's and opinions discussed. To me, all important stuff.

Physical attraction can be just that, superficial and shallow.

I would rather be someone's friend first with stuff to talk about, then to jump into some relationship with a person who doesn't tweek my mind.



I agree. For me, my brain needs to be engaged...and I need that mental connection as much as I need the emotional and physical one....possibly more.

If I feel like you (general you) don't understand me, or I don't understand you, or we can't talk....no amount of physical connection or attraction is going to override that. The times when I have let the physical connection override my brain have ultimately ended badly...because a vital connection is missing.

So yes.....it's possible to be emotionally engaged, and fall in love, without having seen that person in the flesh. Then, the physical meeting and connection is a confirmation (or not) of where my brain already is.

Having a complete relationship with no physical contact at all? No, not for me. I would not be satisfied with a purely virtual relationship.

For me, a relationship needs all three....mind, body, and spirit/emotion.


Now....on the subject of manners....pffftttt.....I deleted my Facebook page entirely. I found it to be a source of unneeded drama in my life.

[SweetJane]

Having a complete relationship with no physical contact at all? No, not for me. I would not be satisfied with a purely virtual relationship.

Absolutely, JustJo. You have to meet in real time. You can be played, lied to, or misrepresented to in the virtual world. Even with Skype and other video chats, you can still miss something vital that you will not see in real time.

Yes, the brain engages first for me. Intelligence, genuine interest in me (and vice versa), and some spark of attraction has to be there. But even the best romances on paper or cyber space can't hold up to that first physical meeting. And even then, you have to do the dance. You have to ask questions, listen, and reply honestly.