What influences our reactions to sexual abuse/exploitation of children?

[Kobi]

News stories about the sexual abuse/exploitation of children never fail to evoke reactions. Yet it seems sometimes, to me at least, the intensity of the reaction to these stories seems to differ. Some stories enrage people while others just piss them off. Some stories quickly die out while others linger and are easily reignited.

For example, on the eve of the Super Bowl last year, the sex slave trade which abounds during sporting events rendered some pretty intense reactions that lasted a good long time.

Jerry Sandusky/Penn State allegations were hotly greeted as well. And the death of Joe Paterno ripped open the scars and controversy again.

Quarterback Mark Sanchez's alleged tryst with a teenager of legal age garnered a lot of attention but died fairly quickly.

Pedophile priests also cause some pretty strong reactions and generate a lot of talk whenever a story is aired.

Yet, this week, 2 LA elementary school teachers were charged with some pretty disgusting crimes against their students. The "lollipop" game of oral sex with a second grade student by one teacher who also took photos/videos of the abuse on his cell phone.

Another LA teacher was charged after over 400 alarming pictures of blindfolded and gagged children were discovered by a CVS photo technician. This man is alleged to have spoonfed his semen to his unsuspecting students. Story (Story)

The media stories of these teachers didnt seem to garner much reaction/attention except in the immediate area.

So, it made me start thinking, what kinds of things influence our reactions to these stories.

Is it the type of coverage the stories get i.e. stories involving sports stuff gets more hype nationwide thus reaches a wider audience? It is the repetitive and prolonged exposure to these stories that impact us as more and more info is released over time? Is it easier to "dismiss", in our own heads, a story that airs for just one day?

Or is it something in the actual circumstances i.e. a well known sports figures vs an unknown teachers, or an unknown elementary school vs a well known university or a school vs an entire religious institution etc.

Or, might it be something in us i.e. our own personal histories, or our own feelings about sports figures, or our own feelings/experiences in religious "do as I say not as I do" rhetoric etc.

Or, are there other factors I am not thinking of at the moment?

I am curious as to what people might think/feel about what types of things influence their own reactions to these stories.

Various things affect my reactions. The amount of media coverage, the more inundated I am, the more likely I am to react. The closer to home something occurs, the more likely I am to react.

Specific circumstances color my reactions as well. Direct responsibilty for an action is likely to piss me off more so than someones indirect accountabilty for anothers persons behavior. Attempts at "trial by media" always makes me see red - to me an allegation is an allegation until a trial says it isnt.

So, what kinds of things influence your reactions to this?

[Liam]

Being sexually molested at the age of four by my dentist, influences my reaction to the exploitation and sexual abuse of children. Regardless of how it is presented, or the details given, my reaction is one of anger and sadness.

[Rockinonahigh]

I have my own reasone to be highly angered and totaly P.O.'d about his situation,I have many times wished I was in the position to leagly do something about people who abuse children or anyone else for any reason.I would see it done in an expedient amount of time,you can bet the guilty would burn in hell carcking rocks with a sledgs hammer.

[Gemme]

I think if I relate to the story on a personal level, it strikes me stronger than others, even though they are all horrible.

For example, the spoon feeding semen guy. That made me gag a little as I'm not a fan of the flavor of semen in general. It's wrong and I think the guy should do time, but it didn't hit me as hard as some of the other stories.

I, too, am a childhood abuse survivor. Stories that mimic or somehow form a connection to my own personal story make me livid. I literally seeth on the inside and, if the perp was in front of me, I wouldn't trust myself to not do them bodily harm.

[TimilDeeps]

For me, any story regarding any form of child abuse, regardless of the amount of coverage, makes me want to vomit. Then I will like to torture those that are responsible for said abuse.

To answer the question; I respond this way because of my moral character, my ethics, my sense of right and wrong etc. etc. I have absolutely no history of abuse or trauma. I've had an amazingly boring, blessed life.

[The_Lady_Snow]

I'm the guilty thread starer on the eve of the Superbowl, I did another thread this year. My reaction comes from the constant abuse, neglect, and oppression of children.

Children for me are something we ALL should be safeguarding, protecting, always looking out for, (I could say this about women to but that is a whole other thread). Children don't have a voice like we adults do, children aren't given a choice, children are vulnerable..

"For example, on the eve of the Super Bowl last year, the sex slave trade which abounds during sporting events rendered some pretty intense reactions that lasted a good long time"

This statement is not entirely correct, you see children are being literally *specially* ordered the 4 to 10 year olds are requested because their tiny bodies are prepubescent and queer kids are even a bigger market because these men and women who are purchasing them are requesting children like they are fucking Big Mac's. That's what the Superbowl brings, a bunch of sick mother fuckers ordering babies up like they were hashbrowns, FIFA same thing, the Superbowl still being the biggest sex marketing event to happen but you never ever hear about it.

I am one of those people who reacts *strongly* when it comes to the abuse of children, and when I have decided to share it with this particular online venue I have read the reactions of people and I am shocked because frankly to me and this is from my view point.

Sports matter more, quarter backs matter more, children, eh they are just simply children and they don't have entertainment value.

That's what gripes my ass, the lack of value we place on the children.

I have always, will always have that reaction when it comes to any stories regarding children, after last years fiasco with the thread I learned one thing. I can share my anger, rage about it with people who are close to me and get it.

This venue I can't simply because it drives me batty crazy to see someone like that POS Paterno glorified, why?

Football is more important, that is the message I got with that matter and with the Superbowl matter.


I hope that one day all that money the NFL makes, the Catholic church has, or any other organization with that kind of power will take it upon themselves and start doing some right with that power and that our children are no longer victims.

I have no love or empathy for ANYONE that dares harm a human in vile ways, I can't even express the thoughts I have for people who harm children because for me it's unthinkable.

That's where my reaction comes from, I see children and I see innocence not profit.


As for the other sick fucks who do harm to kids, I feel the same and though we may hear about their crimes, their crimes aren't gonna affect someones big fat paycheck and rep (Paterno) so the message is clear, fuck the kids, there's plenty out there but Football (or any other high money making organization run by a bunch of sexist, opressing, disgusting people) no that HAS to be saved..

After all where would one place million dollar commercial at?

OH wait we could give that to the kids or women, or schools..

That will never happen though....


I could go on for HOURS about the Catholic Church and their heinous crimes against children but if I did I would offend A LOT of Catholics because in my eyes they are choosing to ignore that that church is FILLED with CRIMINALS...

No one likes to hear that either...

[RockOn]

First off, I've never been molested or sexually abused. I do not have children.

I feel tremendous rage when I hear of a child having been sexually molested. It makes me want to get physically violent at the sick f*ck.

I remember back ... seems like around 2000 or 2001. It was when Elizabeth Smart's disappeance was on national news. Then a five year old in California, Samantha Runion, was taken from her yard in broad daylight while playing with a friend. As the perve was dragging her into his car, she screamed to her friend to go tell her mother. I read that on the news and was pure sick, couldn't sleep for thinking about that little baby. She was found dead a few days later by a jogger. Her killer had sexually postured her so people driving by could see her. Five minutes ...five minutes alone in a locked room with her attacker was what I wanted. He not only stole her innocence but took her life too.

That is where I am with this topic. It won't change.

[aishah]

i'm with the_lady_snow, re the lack of value placed on children.

what really kills me about this topic, aside from the fact that i have a hard time not relating personally to stories of abuse, is the lack of value we place on children. and i think the fact that we place more value on some children than others is a huge problem. and that, for example, older children are frequently blamed for abuse (not that younger children aren't too but the newspapers are more likely to treat an older child, especially a child of color, as a grown woman who brought it on herself rather than a white child or a younger child, if that makes any sense). as a disabled native woman and a survivor, the fact that some communities, like indigenous and disabled women and children, have horrendously high rates of victimization due to sexual violence. in both cases with a higher likelihood of getting victimized by white and able-bodied folks - so it's not like it's a 'reservation problem' or something like that. the fact that no one talks about it really frustrates me. it feels like certain populations are just invisible and no one cares when it comes to sexual violence and child abuse.

generally speaking, even outside of sexual violence, children aren't really seen as fully human or deserving of full rights as adults are. i think that has a lot to do with how horribly sexual violence against children is handled. and when it happens within the family, a lot of courts and families are more concerned with forgiving the abuser, sweeping it under the rug, and making things go back to normal.

[Lady Pamela]

Having gone through sexual abuse during my childhood, being raped at an early age and watching my other family memebers endure such. The entire subject sets me off horribly.
I have had much help in this area but it has been a cause of mine througout my life to help.

For me personally it effects me in anger and Discust. Being the adult me that is.

But pertaining to those in direct danger.. It sets me into go mode. I act if possible. I do whatever it takes to bring that person to stop and be arrested.

I had an oppertunity as a young teen to sit amoungst many men in prison. All being molesters or rapists by the way.
The purpose for this was to help me understand the reason why they do what they do. A therapy of sorts.
These were all men who wanted to help others not endure what they had given out before.
Yes is was horribly scarey for me at first. But is was one of the most helpful things ever done for me too.

It has taught me as an advocate how to help others get through it. And without taking it on as a personal attack. Most these people do not see a person, they see an object to controle.

I personally do not believe the prison time or punishment is near what it should be. And personally "if it were legal that is" would like them all to be released into public population..but that is never going to happen.

So the best way to arm against such is knowledge. And to take action. And do whatever it takes to get those safe in harms way.

Learn where to go to report. Find advocates that deal with this incase you need them or those you know might.

[Kobi]

Thanks to everyone who chose to respond so far.

What I am hearing so far is the intensity of a response to stories of sexual abuse/exploitation of children has some roots in a personal history of abuse; values i.e. right vs wrong, protecting the innocence and vulnerabilty of children, the value of children; and particular acts we find distasteful.

Snow raised an interesting issue i.e. money and the power it gives, the power it takes, who has it, and the influence it wields.

This makes me start mulling over how "class" factors into the intensity of reactions. Looking at something from the standpoint of how money trumps and triumps over human beings makes my reactions intensify a lot.

Interesting food for more thought.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Thanks to everyone who chose to respond so far.

What I am hearing so far is the intensity of a response to stories of sexual abuse/exploitation of children has some roots in a personal history of abuse; values i.e. right vs wrong, protecting the innocence and vulnerabilty of children, the value of children; and particular acts we find distasteful.

Snow raised an interesting issue i.e. money and the power it gives, the power it takes, who has it, and the influence it wields.

This makes me start mulling over how "class" factors into the intensity of reactions. Looking at something from the standpoint of how money trumps and triumps over human beings makes my reactions intensify a lot.

Interesting food for more thought.




DING DING!

Why of course money trumps over most things, last year a victim of sex trafficking went to the NFL and asked if they would do a PSA to let people know what was happening during this event.

They denied her, here was a chance for SOMEONE with power, and money to DO something for the better.

But no, no no no we can't have our Superbowl tainted with anything that is going to cause a buzz kill, cause that is what it would do it would ruin everyone's good glutenous time and children AREN'T worth that.

That's the message they sent out with their denial

Money

Children

which has more value?


Money won...


here's part of the article

""I’ll never forget my first trip to Dallas/Fort Worth several years ago. It was 2006 when I was dragged there against my will by a pimp. I was forced to dance, strip and sell sex (along with five other young girls) for over a month while he pocketed the cash ($1,000-$3,000/night from each girl) and planned our next gig. I was trapped in a life I never wanted without any hope of escape."

She goes on to say that she's taken the courageous step of sharing her story publicly to help prevent other young girls from experiencing the same thing. A.H. knows the Super Bowl Host Committee and NFL can be instrumental in helping stop this systematic exploitation by endorsing Traffick911's "I'm Not Buying It" campaign and sharing campaign materials during the game. It's easy, it's painless, and it could make a huge difference for the many girls like A.H. who are trafficked for sex at the Super Bowl every year. But so far, both the NFL and the Host Committee are ignoring the request made by A.H., several anti-trafficking organizations, and over 68,000 Change.org members."


Big money, big commercials, big game and children go unheard, honestly I think we ALL should be outraged at the NFL Committee and that this is happening to kids.......


Here's (http://vimeo.com/18445593) the video the NFL could of run....

[AtLast]

I'm the guilty thread starer on the eve of the Superbowl, I did another thread this year. My reaction comes from the constant abuse, neglect, and oppression of children.

Children for me are something we ALL should be safeguarding, protecting, always looking out for, (I could say this about women to but that is a whole other thread). Children don't have a voice like we adults do, children aren't given a choice, children are vulnerable..

"For example, on the eve of the Super Bowl last year, the sex slave trade which abounds during sporting events rendered some pretty intense reactions that lasted a good long time"

This statement is not entirely correct, you see children are being literally *specially* ordered the 4 to 10 year olds are requested because their tiny bodies are prepubescent and queer kids are even a bigger market because these men and women who are purchasing them are requesting children like they are fucking Big Mac's. That's what the Superbowl brings, a bunch of sick mother fuckers ordering babies up like they were hashbrowns, FIFA same thing, the Superbowl still being the biggest sex marketing event to happen but you never ever hear about it.

I am one of those people who reacts *strongly* when it comes to the abuse of children, and when I have decided to share it with this particular online venue I have read the reactions of people and I am shocked because frankly to me and this is from my view point.

Sports matter more, quarter backs matter more, children, eh they are just simply children and they don't have entertainment value.

That's what gripes my ass, the lack of value we place on the children.

I have always, will always have that reaction when it comes to any stories regarding children, after last years fiasco with the thread I learned one thing. I can share my anger, rage about it with people who are close to me and get it.

This venue I can't simply because it drives me batty crazy to see someone like that POS Paterno glorified, why?

Football is more important, that is the message I got with that matter and with the Superbowl matter.


I hope that one day all that money the NFL makes, the Catholic church has, or any other organization with that kind of power will take it upon themselves and start doing some right with that power and that our children are no longer victims.

I have no love or empathy for ANYONE that dares harm a human in vile ways, I can't even express the thoughts I have for people who harm children because for me it's unthinkable.

That's where my reaction comes from, I see children and I see innocence not profit.


As for the other sick fucks who do harm to kids, I feel the same and though we may hear about their crimes, their crimes aren't gonna affect someones big fat paycheck and rep (Paterno) so the message is clear, fuck the kids, there's plenty out there but Football (or any other high money making organization run by a bunch of sexist, opressing, disgusting people) no that HAS to be saved..

After all where would one place million dollar commercial at?

OH wait we could give that to the kids or women, or schools..

That will never happen though....


I could go on for HOURS about the Catholic Church and their heinous crimes against children but if I did I would offend A LOT of Catholics because in my eyes they are choosing to ignore that that church is FILLED with CRIMINALS...

No one likes to hear that either...

Damn right we ALL have a responsibility to children! This is where the social democrat in me goes viral. True for the elder abuse- any abuse of a defenseless person. In all of my years working with children of sexual abuse, those that turned their eyes away that could have done something had as much wrath from me as the offenders. It is just not hard to pick up the damn phone and make a call. You can remain anonymous.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Damn right we ALL have a responsibility to children! This is where the social democrat in me goes viral. True for the elder abuse- any abuse of a defenseless person. In all of my years working with children of sexual abuse, those that turned their eyes away that could have done something had as much wrath from me as the offenders. It is just not hard to pick up the damn phone and make a call. You can remain anonymous.



Latest example:

Joe Paterno and all The Cronies who knew that were in a position of power at Penn State.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by Kobi :

So, what kinds of things influence your reactions to this?


__________________________________________________ ________



I thought about this thread before going to sleep, and I guess my answer to this particular question would be..

How could we not have reactions?

These are children.... We SHOULD be reacting..... A damn fucking shame we don't, yet if it's a dog being abused well then it's got your (general) attention...

That's pretty fucked up in my book...

[Kobi]

Originally Posted by Kobi :

So, what kinds of things influence your reactions to this?


__________________________________________________ ________



I thought about this thread before going to sleep, and I guess my answer to this particular question would be..

How could we not have reactions?

These are children.... We SHOULD be reacting..... A damn fucking shame we don't, yet if it's a dog being abused well then it's got your (general) attention...

That's pretty fucked up in my book...



I dont think I have ever encountered another human who doesnt have a reaction to this. The intensity of the reactions I do see varies which is why I was curious as to how others see their own personal reactions.

Snowy, your passion for this topic is impressive. I wish I had that freedom. As someone who worked in this field for decades, I had to learn to mute my reactions for the sake of what I was doing. It is a hard lesson to unlearn.

The closest I might come to being as passionate as you is when talking about the ways in which the laws and systems to help these kids often fail to do the job in ways that actual help kids. The laws are good, the systems need work, more viable options are needed, and better judges are imperative.

[The_Lady_Snow]

I dont think I have ever encountered another human who doesnt have a reaction to this. The intensity of the reactions I do see varies which is why I was curious as to how others see their own personal reactions.

Snowy, your passion for this topic is impressive. I wish I had that freedom. As someone who worked in this field for decades, I had to learn to mute my reactions for the sake of what I was doing. It is a hard lesson to unlearn.

The closest I might come to being as passionate as you is when talking about the ways in which the laws and systems to help these kids often fail to do the job in ways that actual help kids. The laws are good, the systems need work, more viable options are needed, and better judges are imperative.



Seeing you don't work in that field no more, I see no reason why you can't be just as passionate. I was surprised at your Paterno thoughts in your RIP thread, as much as you are about not being oppressed seeing you excuse Paterno was rather shocking.


The laws regarding our children SUCK, animals have more protection in this country than a poor child.... The outcry over dogs in comparison to a childs life amazes me..

[aishah]

in my experience, most people will say they give a shit or act shocked and appalled, but when push comes to shove, meaning whenever it pushes them out of their comfortable little bubble, they usually don't. (not talking about anyone here, but this has been my experience offline with this topic.) when it means talking about child abuse and sexual violence as though it actually exists and impacts people, in order to bring real awareness to the issues, most people are too uncomfortable. when it means actually taking action for the sake of a situation in their community or family, most people would rather gossip about it and share their opinion (which in my experience often involves a lot of excusing the abuser) rather than actually do something that might help. i get that there are all sorts of social and psychological justifications for why people go out of their way to NOT give a fuck, but i don't think that ever excuses it.

[Martina]

It's a weird question, finally. i think it is normal to react. It's a function of our innate empathy for the pain of others and our innate anxiety regarding the vulnerability of the weak and small.

Lots of things could get people to react less intensely:

being taught that children and women are property
working in a field exposing one to victims and their stories
being victimized oneself
being a predator oneself

i think that people who can't handle it and turn away are sometimes the people who respond most strongly. To actually NOT respond, i imagine, takes some training, some desensitization.

i sometimes think i have heard it all when something like that LA teacher story comes out and i am overwhelmed with disgust, pity and anger. The same thing happened when the story of the pediatrician in Delaware made the papers.

i still think it's a weird question. It is normal to respond. It doesn't take outside influences. It's a basic human response. What is abnormal is to have that response muffled in some way by culture or individual life experience.

[apretty]

So, what kinds of things influence your reactions to this?


I'm influenced by a story about abuse because I find abuse to be probably the worst kind of criminal behavior.

Which is to say, it doesn't really make a difference for me, what is going on in popular culture around the time that I am learning about a new/not so new instance of abuse.

I do think that I will occasionally be dismayed at the people that care for just a few weeks at a stretch and seem to forget about a story--Only to be (act?) completely dismayed afresh when the next popular abuse 'scandal' breaks...But never long enough or with any kind of direction to actually, you know, take some action, if only in evolving thought.

Also, I am leery of those that would try to capitalize on child abuse (any victimization of others)--So, chances are I may react internally to an issue (as opposed to outwardly) while relying heavily on my inner lady-bullshit meter.

[Kobi]

Seeing you don't work in that field no more, I see no reason why you can't be just as passionate. I was surprised at your Paterno thoughts in your RIP thread, as much as you are about not being oppressed seeing you excuse Paterno was rather shocking.


The laws regarding our children SUCK, animals have more protection in this country than a poor child.... The outcry over dogs in comparison to a childs life amazes me..



I dont know if I can explain why I reacted to the stuff with Paterno in a way that will help you to understand. But, I will try.

I learned early in my career, that my passion for doing the right thing and the law did not always jive. People are innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt by a jury of their peers. My gut, my feelings, even my evidence was suspect until it could be proven and even then, there was no guarantee the result would be what I wanted or expected.

Feelings are not proof. Passion is not proof. Allegations are not proof. Sometimes even proof isnt proof enough- it was a hard lesson to learn.

This stuff in the ideal world is a black and white issue. In the real world it is full of gray areas and that what makes it so difficult and complicated and frustrating.

I dont know what happened at Penn State. I know what the media said but is that irrefutable fact? Is a football coach a mandated reporter of something he didnt see or is he just ethically and legally obligated to report what was reported to him to his superiors? What is the Penn States policy and procedure on this? What is the state law on this? From what I read on the story, if Penn is anything like Massachustts, I could poke holds in every story I read.

Regardless, these are all allegations until proven to be truth in a court of law. The media is not a court of law. The media sometimes reports things later found to be untrue or half truths. But, the damage is already done. Reputations are ruined, careers are ruined, familys are ruined. And then what....say oops sorry, we made a boo boo?

Even getting a conviction doesnt mean the evidence was always correct. Think of the number of men who have spent decades in jail for rapes they were later found not to be guilty of via DNA testing.

Judging and pronouncing judgement on other people is a tricky thing. It is evaluating and weighing stuff and taking the appropriate action based on what you hope, in your heart, is the right thing.

People want it to be simple and clearcut. It isnt. People want someone to blame, someone to hold accountable. Sometimes people are willing to invoke viligante justice cuz it makes us feel better. It makes us feel like we have done something. It makes us not feel helpless. But is it the right thing to do?

I wont judge Paterno because I dont know what happened and I dont believe in vigilante justice. I cant judge a dead guy who cant even defend himself. It irks me that he will most likely be dragged thru the mud while people are clamoring to cover their collective asses. He is dead. He is the perfect scapegoat for those left living who are facing jailtime and massive law suits from victims. But, I still dont and doubt I ever will know what happened there.

And I wont judge Paterno, because I have been there. I am a mandated reporter. I know the system. I know how it works and how to use it. I have sat in courtrooms with my i's dotted, my t's crossed, with everything any normal human being would need short of a video of a kid getting sodomized, to get a conviction or at least an order of protection. And, I failed to get it. Want to know how I was blamed for not doing enough or not doing the right thing? Want to know how much I blamed myself?

People want it to be easy, need it to be easy. It isnt. And, to me, until we deal with the stuff that makes this not easy, the problem will continue. And that makes me livid. But I'm not sure even my livid would match your passion. :)

Maybe this will help you understand better. I dont know.

[Martina]

By the way, i think you should have been less graphic in the OP or given more of a warning. Some of these details are extreme. The title is clearly about sexual abuse, but it does not warn of graphic details.

[Martina]

Let me just call it as i see it. There is something creepy and prurient about this thread. i can't get what the Original Poster does not understand and wants explored.

Getting someone to get intense about their reactions, even perhaps triggering some of it with the details. What's that for? What is the question really?

[The_Lady_Snow]

Thanks for your post, and no it doesn't help me understand but thanks for trying.

There's really nothing that can get me to understand after reading the grand jury report, this man was gross (Sandusky) from being caught the first time with a young boy on a wrestling mat to he himself admitting showering with a child.

Who showers with a child?

Who ignores that some dude, some old dude is showering with kids.

Let me tell ya Kobi, there is nothing *normal* or *right* about a grown ass man showering with a young child.

That's just not what we do as adults with other peoples kids it's not right, it's creepy and it should not be done.


Paterno was told, he should of kept *SCREAMING* at the top of his lungs that something was not right with his right hand man.

He could of been a big hero, and though we don't really know how that went down I do know one thing.

Men love to cover shit up, look at the Powell case..


Men love their money, their fame, their football, their reputations more than they value, or love women and children.

So it's not really hard to imagine that Paterno knew, talked to his buddy and told him to get his shit under control and then *hoped* it would go away.

10 alleged victims and you being in the field you were know that serial pedophiles aren't gonna just stop Sandusky had access to hundreds of children Lord knows how many young men he fucked up.


Wanna know why no one cares to much about those boys, they are boys who come from low economic backgrounds, single mom homes they were prime targets for someone as sick as him.

Anyways until *WE* that means all of us see our women and children with value, (cause cars, dogs, suits, Football, etc etc have more value than them) nothing will change and because of that WE should ALL be outraged, angry, upset, passionate and speak out against it and try to change it.


That's all I really have to say about this particular subject because now I feel I am going in circles trying to *give* the right answer to a very peculiar question.

[Kobi]

Thanks for your post, and no it doesn't help me understand but thanks for trying.

There's really nothing that can get me to understand after reading the grand jury report, this man was gross (Sandusky) from being caught the first time with a young boy on a wrestling mat to he himself admitting showering with a child.

Who showers with a child?

Who ignores that some dude, some old dude is showering with kids.

Let me tell ya Kobi, there is nothing *normal* or *right* about a grown ass man showering with a young child.

That's just not what we do as adults with other peoples kids it's not right, it's creepy and it should not be done.


Paterno was told, he should of kept *SCREAMING* at the top of his lungs that something was not right with his right hand man.

He could of been a big hero, and though we don't really know how that went down I do know one thing.

Men love to cover shit up, look at the Powell case..


Men love their money, their fame, their football, their reputations more than they value, or love women and children.

So it's not really hard to imagine that Paterno knew, talked to his buddy and told him to get his shit under control and then *hoped* it would go away.

10 alleged victims and you being in the field you were know that serial pedophiles aren't gonna just stop Sandusky had access to hundreds of children Lord knows how many young men he fucked up.


Wanna know why no one cares to much about those boys, they are boys who come from low economic backgrounds, single mom homes they were prime targets for someone as sick as him.

Anyways until *WE* that means all of us see our women and children with value, (cause cars, dogs, suits, Football, etc etc have more value than them) nothing will change and because of that WE should ALL be outraged, angry, upset, passionate and speak out against it and try to change it.


That's all I really have to say about this particular subject because now I feel I am going in circles trying to *give* the right answer to a very peculiar question.


Snow, we agree on more than you think.

We agree that Sandusky is a "piece of work". "Piece of work" is my way of saying he is probably a freakin slimeball who makes my stomach turn. I look forward to a trial where efforts will be made to prove the sick and despictable acts of which he is accused. And, I hope that trial will result in a punishment worthy of the crimes of which he is accused.

However, he is still allowed due process under the law. It doesnt matter, in the scheme of things, whether I like that part or not. It is how our legal system of accountability works.

I think we agree, grand jury testimony is very compelling. How can it not be? It is someone telling their side of the story without being challenged. It is an avenue to see if there is enough credible evidence from a credible witness to bring charges. It is not ultimate truth or a trial. It is an unchallenged account of one persons side of the story.

I dont know about you but if I was accused of some crime I would prefer to be innocent until proven guilty rather than being seen as guilty until I can prove I am not. It is a philosophical difference with far reaching implications.

We agree, pedophiles are a huge, untreatable problem for our society. They are perpetual offenders. They do prey on those they see as vulnerable.

We agree, we need to find a way to deal with them being in the midst of other people and children in particular. 15 years ago, in my mind, pedophiles were a good reason to rethink using the death penalty. Today not so much. Today, maybe, pedophiles make me think funding Gringrich's quest to colonize the moon is a good idea. We could export them :)

We agree, that a patriarchal society puts women and children in a not so nice place. But, I suspect, we agree, there are still some nice men in there. :)

I suspect we agree, both men and women like to cover shit up, each individual for their own reasons. But, usually to cover their own asses in some way.

We agree, people need to speak up and demand something be done. Where we disagree, I think, is how best to do this. What tactic makes people listen and think and act more so than another in every situation? I dont have an answer to that. Its just a question I ask myself a lot.

The Powell case is another example of something that infuriates me. But what infuriated me might not be what infuriated you. And how I express that infuriation might not be the same way as you do.

A lot of effort was put into protecting the Powell children by a lot of people. It didnt stop them from being killed.

I want to know who made the decision that a father, who has said "they are turning my children against me" was allowed a supervised visit in an environment where Josh Powell had the control to be able to harm those kids.

In the scheme of things and given the result, it was an incredibly stupid decision. I am willing to bet someone, at the time this decision was made, said hey thats a stupid decision. And they were told to shut the f*** up.

I asked the question I did for a reason. I didnt ask - do media stories of sexual abuse make you react or not. Some folks seemed to have thought that is what I asked. I didnt.

What I asked is, regardless of how you react to media stories i.e. they make you mad or sad or uncomfortable or whatever, what factors play into how you feel or why you might have a stronger reaction to one story over another.

This means, for example, does a story that is headline news for a month provoke a bigger or different reaction than one that plays for just a day? The crimes in each are the same and equally hideous but does longer exposure to the story affect your reaction? Do you (generic you) feel the same passion about those kids in California who were news for a day as you do for all the Sandusky stories? etc. Other examples are in the OP.

Thats what I was trying to get at.

This has been bugging me because of a story that ran in our local paper, a week ago Sunday, about a mother who had been fighting to protect her child for years from sexual abuse by his father. It was a very graphic story that traced the timeline and court/legal/social service process along the way. The link to the article is in the Violence Against Women thread if you are interested. But, be warned, the article is graphic and it is disturbing.

It bothered me A LOT. The "outrage" lasted for a few days here. Now we are back to dolphin strandings.

But, that kid and his mother have been with me ever since I read the article. And, it made me wonder why is this particular case bugging me so much. I am still not sure I know the answer but this thread is taking my mind in a lot of different directions while I search for an answer.

I asked the question I did because I wanted to know how this stuff affected others and why it affected them the way it did. And was this different from the way it seems to work in my head. In hindsight, I might have needed to word it differently.

It was supposed to be a way to learn from one another and to stimulate a dialogue on "thinking harder" about something. I'm not sure it was taken that way tho.

BTW, there is no right answer. But, every post did give me food for thought.

[Kätzchen]

I go from zero to rage in micro-seconds when it comes down to any human being hurt by another human being.

People do a ton of face work when they've got something to hide
(as illustrated in my personal account below):


Years ago, I came home early from work to pick up my two sons from a place of so-called safety (a married couple in the neighborhood who had street cred's backed up by the school, police agency, etc) only to find out that the husband was 'doing my oldest son' because he wouldn't mind him, etc. I was so fucking upset to walk in on what he was doing to my son that I couldn't say anything; but I gathered up my two sons, cried while I was walking home with my youngest in my arms and my oldest sitting on my shoulders (I wanted them near me and not to walk after all they had been through), called an officer who knew me personally, pressed charges, and made sure everyone in the community knew that this well respected family was not safe at all.

[Greyson]

I think most have some level of reaction when hearing about children being abused, molested, harmed. I also think there are many variables that do influence how we react to this.

Something that stuck out for me in this recent case of the Los Angeles City School was that most of the children were children of a very disenfranchised group of people, undocumented people primarily from Mexico and Cental America. How could something like this be going on for years and no one knows? I think people do know or suspect and look the other way. They may not "look the other way" conciously but somewhere inside of their mind, world view there is life experience, societal conciousness,informing their decisions.

Power in this country translates into Money and Authority, real or perceived. I am not saying it is okay for a child of privlege to be harmed. What I am saying is that children that come from the fringes of our "acceptable" circumstances seem to get overlooked more frequently and for longer periods of time.