Is Marriage for you?

[MsTinkerbelly]

As some of you know I post a whole lot of updates regarding equal marriage in our country and elsewhere in the world. So if tomorrow you were told that you could get married, would you want to? Why or why not?

All I ask is that you (collective you) be respectful to each other and our points of view.

I'll be back later...

[clay]

hi MsTinker:
Thanks for this thread...great idea!


If I was told tomorrow I could get married, would I want to? Why or why not?
Having that same privilege/right as all others in society would be awesome in and of itself...for a number of reasons. All I have ever wanted was for everyone to be treated equally!
I would love to be married with equal rights/privileges....and to be recognized as such! Being able to live life without discretion, phobias, anger, and hate would be ideal!
However, on the opposite side of the coin, "marriage" doesn't "guarantee" us anything. By that I mean, when I am coupled, I want our hearts to bind one another with the strings of love, committment, fidelity, honesty, and such..NOT a "piece of paper". The freedom to be individuals yet remaining committed, one to the other.....by love..by choice...am I making sense...lol..
Looking forward to all the posts. Have an awesome day! Clay
PS I would love to be able to enjoy all the perks and privileges that come with marriage (as stated by Tawse) in so far as marriage in that respect.
I also agree with Novela's post as well. My deceased partner & I had 15 wonderful years, and would have been married had our state recognized the union! But we were so much more committed in our hearts and bound for life...except death took her away from me. Ahh but I digress.

[Tawse]

We got married in Canada in 2007 and I can't wait for it to become legal across the states.

Why?

Strictly Financial and Legal reasons. Hospital visitations, Next of Kin rights, Tax deductions, Insurance benefits, Pension benefits, SSI benefits, etc... My wife and I deserve them just as much as Joe Blow Straight Guy in the office next door.

[Novelafemme]

My partner and I are getting married in March...eep, only 5 weeks left! We had originally planned to get legally married in NYC but we weren't there long enough...there needs to be 24 hours in between your license application and the ceremony. Now that Prop 8 has been overturned in CA we will most likely take a road trip to Long Beach and go the the justice of the peace there. It is very important to her to be legally married in the eyes of the law somewhere, me...not so much since I feel the commitment is in one's mind and heart. We are having a commitment ceremony here in Tucson at our home and her father will be the one marrying us, which makes my heart melt to even think about.

Clay is exactly right. Marriage is never a guarantee of life long happiness and companionship. Look at the lesbian couple who was the first same sex couple in CA to be legally wed. They just filed for divorce after being together for 15 years! People grow and change and move in different directions. That's just life. But when you meet your soul mate and you know it is meant to be, the path you travel together just makes sense and you feel blessed to be on it with your chosen partner. At least that's how I feel. :)

[Tawse]

for some people.. they can stay with someone forever as long as they don't feel legally tied to that person. As soon as you have the legal bonds - they feel suffocated.


It's cool watching the way different people react to different things.

[Gráinne]

I don't see myself getting married again, as I love having a (close to) empty nest and don't really want to merge my living quarters with a partner. I recognize that that's an unusual arrangement in this community, as most partners do seem to move towards living together/marriage. I am more tempermentally built to live alone, though. Still, I can't say "never"!

Having said all that, of course it should be an option for any couple, providing both are consenting adults of age. I really see all the controversy as much like the fighting over interracial marriage before 1967. I'd like to see America go to an England or Canada-like system. As I understand it, ALL marriages have to be carried out in a civil court (not just as an option, as it is here). Then, the religious church service is optional, but you are married by the civil authorities. That way, churches that don't want gay marriage don't have to do it. It's really a human rights issue more than a moral one.

[Novelafemme]

for some people.. they can stay with someone forever as long as they don't feel legally tied to that person. As soon as you have the legal bonds - they feel suffocated.


It's cool watching the way different people react to different things.

Exactly, Tawse. I had this conversation with my sister when we were in NYC a few weeks back. She has been with her partner for 26 years and they are getting legally married tomorrow at their town hall. She was explaining that marriage was just never really an option for her. It felt too conventional, traditional, confining, doomed, lol. Since she has had cancer her outlook has done a 360. She wrote me this morning and said she thinks tomorrow is going to take she and Michael to a whole different level emotionally and spiritually and she is super excited about that.

I will say that the entire 15+ years I was married it never felt quite "right". And while I couldn't put my finger on what was identifiably wrong, it actually made me heart sick to think that the reality I was living then was all it would ever be in terms of intimacy and partnership. But, I felt like I had made a deal with the devil and I was in it forever. Thank goodness I finally realized I had options and that the world wouldn't end if I spoke up and made my unhappiness known.

[starryeyes]

I was in a hetero marriage for 2 years. I know being married to a woman who I felt that complete connection with would be different, but it gonna take me a while to get to that point, if ever. My whole idea of marriage is kinda spoiled with my experience, the media, the controversy, ect. I would want to have a ceremony of some sort, somethig special that was meaningful to us if I ever find a partner who would want to go there with me (lol). Now, when it gets to the point of kids, mortgages, insurance, etc I can totally see why a marriage that would be legally binding would be important.

To each their own, and congrats to the folks who are and will be getting legally married. It's amazing to see how far we have come.

Love!
Starry

[Rockinonahigh]

I beleave marriage is great,but its not a garentee of happyness nor being a life time commitment to some people.That being said I also think that to many folks rush into marriage with out takeing the time to really get to know the person they are commiting a lifetime to,so time should be taken t really get to know who you are contemplateing marriage with.Lets face it when the blush falls from the bloom there is the real life of the ebb and flow of of a long term relationship should be built over time by also being each thers best friends before anything else so a solid foundation is there,I am always wary of a fast pace relationship that leads to the alter,its not to say it cant be good and do work out,but imho its not a everyday thing.MY grand parrents courted for several years and thay had a long term loveing marriage built on love,trust,compatablity and realiseing how to just live life with humor.I would like that kind of relationship but it has not happened...yet.

[LaneyDoll]

I got married when I was 24. Now, I am 38 and have been fighting for a divorce for much longer than I care to admit. It is exhausting to both my time and energy.

Hopefully I will be single again soon. And I am in a relationship with someone. But do I want to get married? Not at this time. It is easy to fall in love & get married-much harder to fall out of love & get divorced.

Do I see the benefits of marriage? Yes. But they do not apply/affect me to the extent that they do others. My children have a father so they are "ok" if I am gone. My partner & I each have health insurance. I don't have much of monetary value (ie home etc) so that is not an issue. The other issues might be a concern but not at this point in my life.

My partner is twelve years younger than me (38 to 26). So, I am barely thinking of the long-term financial benefits. And I am fairly certain that he is not either-right now, he is focused on school ;) Additionally, we have a D/s relationship that, in our eyes, is far more committed that marriage.

I absolutely support the right to marriage for everyone but for me, marriage is not a concern at this time.

:sparklyheart:

[LaneyDoll]

To each their own, and congrats to the folks who are and will be getting legally married. It's amazing to see how far we have come.



Love this!!!

:sparklyheart:

[genghisfawn]

I find that a lot of people say, "I don't care if they pass same-sex marriage or not. I don't need a piece of paper."

The thing is, whether you want to be married or not, it's a good thing for those who value marriage to be able to have what they want and need for their relationship. I like to encourage people to think of those they love and see equal rights as a necessity, not a privilege.

I am also the marrying kind.

[SweetJane]

Having been in a 36 year marriage and then a divorce, I can say that marriage does have its protections. And that's why I see same-sex marriage as a must for the whole country. It protects children, deals with medical and end-of-life issues, and property ownership and division. Not all of that is protected by the federal government, though some is protected by state civil union laws and some state same sex marriage laws.

I will also say that any marriage should not be a quick decision because it's hard to get out of legally and can get messy.

Marriage, like any long-term commitment, should be based on knowing someone really well and not just what they like to do in bed. It's about all of the little things that can bless or curse your life together if you decided to share a home. It's everything. So a strong friendship (that may be hot) is essential.

Would I marry again? I don't think so. Would I commit to a long-term relationship? Someday perhaps with the right person. But my standards are high and I really don't know if that's in my future.

[Sachita]

If I was with someone and I knew it was going to be forever then yes. When in a committed relationship you work hard to build a life together. You want to know that you're both safe to make investments, purchase a home, etc. When I was in a relationship we did have provisions and paperwork to protect us. Getting married makes it easier and perhaps more affordable.

I think we deserve the same rights, however if I got married it would be based on my feelings and love for my life partner.

[MsTinkerbelly]

As some of you know I post a whole lot of updates regarding equal marriage in our country and elsewhere in the world. So if tomorrow you were told that you could get married, would you want to? Why or why not?

All I ask is that you (collective you) be respectful to each other and our points of view.

I'll be back later...

I am in my 2nd Marriage; the first one was to my daughter's father, and (the last one I will ever be in) now with my Kasey. When I say the last one I mean it 100%. Should Kasey leave me, or should she pass before me, I will not marry again.

I hear people (general people) say that it is just a piece of paper...in my opinion if they get married believing that statement they have no business being married. For "me" marriage is HUGE! You tell another person that for better or for worse, bedhead, bad breath, blah, blah, blah, that you are going to work it out day after day, week after week, year after year, because you have chosen to be here in this reality with them. There are days when I wish my Kasey would go to ....well I'm sure you get it. I'm sure there are days that if I wandered into traffic there would be no tears for her either. The thing is, I have sworn before my diety, my family and friends, and before my Kasey, that when the going gets rough it will still be the two of us standing there side by side against the world. That MEANS something.

Marriage also affords the greatest protections for a family...no notarized documents, power of attorney's, or wills are going to stop someone truely determined from taking everything your partner has left you when you go. Marriage changes that...no one has EVER asked me to see my marriage certificate when I have to do something legal for Kasey, but they did when it was a Domestic Partnership.

I don't want to just ramble here...I am truely interested in what everyone has to say, and I enjoy reading your posts and hearing where you are coming from.

[macele]

She wrote me this morning and said she thinks tomorrow is going to take she and Michael to a whole different level emotionally and spiritually and she is super excited about that. -- Novelafemme


Surely this is what marriage is all about! love this.

[princessbelle]

IMO....If i'm committed and *you* are committed and *we* have a ceremony whether legal or not with friends, or alone, we are married. If *we exchange vows, to our God, to the world, to each other, we are married.

I've been both legally married and married to a woman that wasn't legal. I did not feel "less married" with the one that was not legal.

It's papers. However, sometimes those papers are important. Most of them can be worked around. In the situation regarding insurance coverage things like that, sometimes they cannot be worked around and that sucks. Most of the time though as with power of attorney, medical power of attorney, beneficiary to life insurance, ect. things can be done to assure your partner's rights.

I still want our legal rights to marry, but until then at least we have a clearer path with knowing what we need to do to secure our partner and ourselves for the future.

Besides the paperwork part of it, whether it is legal or not, it is the same for me in my heart. Give me a ring, a white dress and your heart, promise me it is forever, and i'll give you all that back and more. Well, maybe you wouldn't want the white dress, but you get the picture. ;)

[Greyson]

Tink, thank you for keeping us posted on much of the same sex marriage news. I read it, always.

I know it has been argued that the LGBTQ Community has spent far too many resources on this particular human rights issue. I disagree with that it is too much. Yes, much of the collective resources are focused on same sex marriage and I believe this is also opening doors in general for the entire gambit of human rights for LGBTQ.

My own personal situation is that I now can get legally married in the USA because I have transitioned and legally I am now male. I consider this to be a clear cut example of hypocrisy. I have known all of my life I am a queer which is primarily expressed as masculine and born into a female body. Why does undergoing surgery, taking hormones, acquiring the "proper and needed documents" to transition change how the law now sees me? I am still the same on the inside. I still put my pants on one leg at a time. My resume is the same, my passions and hopes, unchanged.

Now I can get married legally, and I know on some level I hedge because it just does not seem right, that I can get married while others in my community cannot. This really annoys me. I am sure at some point I will get married for the first time in my life, and I hope it will be the last.

P.S. I know, I am such a romantic.

[twist of lime]

wow! I really, really, SUPER REALLY, wanted to click on the choice of "I wouldn't get married if you paid me", but my overwhelming desire for diplomacy with a side-car of optimism dictated that I just declare that I'm not married.

*still kinda' grittin' my teeth

[JAGG]

Marriage is for me. When I find that femme who understands what love and trust and loyalty and devotion mean , that 1 special girl who lives her life with integrity morals and standards, I will put a ring on her finger , and share a beautiful life , full of love and adventures.

[MsTinkerbelly]

Tink, thank you for keeping us posted on much of the same sex marriage news. I read it, always.

I know it has been argued that the LGBTQ Community has spent far too many resources on this particular human rights issue. I disagree with that it is too much. Yes, much of the collective resources are focused on same sex marriage and I believe this is also opening doors in general for the entire gambit of human rights for LGBTQ.

If we don't strike in the places that make them uncomfortable, that make them feel, then we can go back to being ignored and discriminated against...we have tried to get the same basic human rights as non queers for years, and what has that gotten us? IN most states we can lose our jobs, lose our homes, lose our KIDS!!! Fuck that! If we can't get our Civil rights by being nice, then we need to get in their faces where it makes them feel.

My own personal situation is that I now can get legally married in the USA because I have transitioned and legally I am now male. I consider this to be a clear cut example of hypocrisy. I have known all of my life I am a queer which is primarily expressed as masculine and born into a female body. Why does undergoing surgery, taking hormones, acquiring the "proper and needed documents" to transition change how the law now sees me? I am still the same on the inside. I still put my pants on one leg at a time. My resume is the same, my passions and hopes, unchanged.

I almost didn't marry my Kasey for some of the same reasons...if we can't all get married, then I shouldn't get married. BUT...if no one gets married then they think we don't want it after all!! they have to see that my marriage in no way impacts their marriage for minds to be changed.

Now I can get married legally, and I know on some level I hedge because it just does not seem right, that I can get married while others in my community cannot. This really annoys me. I am sure at some point I will get married for the first time in my life, and I hope it will be the last.

P.S. I know, I am such a romantic.

This! Me in Blue

[CABud]

You can say that it's the same - having the piece of paper and not having the piece of paper - but you won't know how different it is until you actually get to have the piece of paper. I used to say it was the same. It's not. And I have the piece of paper to prove it.

[aishah]

there wasn't an option that fully represented my situation but i chose "alternate joining" (i wasn't certain if you meant an alternate legal joining, like a domestic partnership or common law situation, or a non-legally-binding commitment).

i have two partners. i am married-but-not-legally to both, which means for us that we've taken vows and committed to each other. i've exchanged rings with my butch (this week!) and been collared by my other partner (and given him a ring, several years ago), who i'm in a d/s relationship with. i have a queer spousal relationship with both partners in addition to our butch/femme and dominant/submissive dynamics. i haven't had an elaborate ceremony with either, though i would like to. rick and i are planning an actual collaring ceremony at some point in the future. chris and i have gone back and forth on whether we'd like to have some sort of wedding ceremony once we are all living together. in both cases, at this point, the ceremonies themselves are just formalities for us.

as far as legal realities, chris and i cannot get legally married because we don't live in a state with same-sex marriage and he isn't far enough into his transition to change his gender on his id (and greyson's post listed well all the reasons why even if he could the whole situation is just fucked up and hypocritical). rick and i could get legally married. i won't marry one of my partners legally and not the other because i am committed to both and i'm frankly just really fed up and angry with the fact that marriage for queer/trans and poly couples and families is really not an option. the whole anti-poly and anti-queer/trans marriage culture is really upsetting to me.

on a practical level, there would be some benefits to legal marriage - sharing health insurance (which i don't have but could get if i were married to one or both of them), tax benefits, veterans and social security benefits (both my partners are veterans and one is close to retirement) and potentially disability benefits if i ever end up getting them, work benefits, and medical benefits if one of us is sick or dying. there would also be some drawbacks - chris and i have a lot of student loan debt, rick has credit card debt, we all maintain mostly separate finances and like it that way.

IF everything else was equal - the finances weren't a huge barrier, polyamorous and queer marriages were legal everywhere, etc. - i'd marry them both legally tomorrow if i could. but even if queer marriage becomes legal in kansas in my lifetime, i seriously doubt polygamy will. rick, who has been married before, is not really interested in getting legally married again; chris is definitely interested in getting legally married but happy to keep things the way they are now because of the lack of equality for queer and polyamorous relationships.

that said - i'm happy with the way things are now. where i am from most people don't get married because there is a horribly high rate of domestic violence (along with virtually everyone living under the poverty line and a lot of substance abuse) so i didn't grow up in a culture where legal marriage was normal. it's much easier to leave an abusive relationship and get your kids out of it if you're not legally married. i never saw a happily married couple til i met my friends anna and dawn, who are lesbian and have been married 13 years (non-legally because they live in a state where it's illegal). when i was little my mom made me promise i would never get married, or at least wait til i was 40 and had a career and my own life and then i could if i really really really really felt i had to. so i've always felt pressured NOT to marry which is the opposite of a lot of my friends (especially other muslims i know and folks around my age - mid-twenties).

[aishah]

another issue for us is religious - i'm a muslim who goes to a ucc church and i'm married to a secular jew and a buddhist. they would be willing to have religious marriage ceremonies with me, and i'm good friends with an imam who does same-sex nikahs (muslim marriage ceremonies) in the u.s. and canada (he is one of only a handful of imams in the world who will do this - i witnessed him perform a nikah for a lesbian couple and it was a very powerful experience). but he does not approve of polyandry. likewise, the church i attend is pretty accepting and my pastor knows me pretty well but i seriously doubt he'd be willing to perform a ceremony for me, knowing that i am poly - the ucc is queer-friendly and doesn't exclude poly folks in the congregation but they are very monogamy-centered officially (though a friend of mine who is a poly ucc minister and i are trying to get together to find out more about the church hierarchy where ceremonies are concerned). so if we were to do a ceremony i would probably have a pagan or buddhist friend perform a ceremony i design myself, and it would be in the community but outside of my places of worship.

[princessbelle]

You can say that it's the same - having the piece of paper and not having the piece of paper - but you won't know how different it is until you actually get to have the piece of paper. I used to say it was the same. It's not. And I have the piece of paper to prove it.

I respectful disagree. I understand how you may feel that way and others may. But, at least in my situation, and from my *me* space, it was the same feeling of marriage whether i had the certificate or i didn't. The only differences was getting all the legal stuff in order and missing out on company plan health insurance. It is more of an effort to get the legal stuff in order, but it can be done. For example, a Medical Power of Attorney. Whereas if you are married it automatically defaults to your spouse. But, a lot of these things can all be accomplished with the right lawyer. Again i say "almost all".

There are many ways to make sure you and your spouse are protected even down to the ownership of mutual belongings. You can have papers drawn up that if you ever split, everything is divided equally. Just about everything can be done legally...just takes a lot more time and effort and money.

IMO...that piece of paper only meant most of that stuff mentioned above was already done for me. Without that piece of paper it was on me to make sure everything was done that could be done legally. It's neater and tightier with the paper...that was the only diff for me.

A note of the heart: A piece of paper did not "make" me more married in my soul, it was the commitment.

With that said....i strongly STILL believe we all have the right to be married. It is way easier legally. BUT, IMO that is the only difference.

[MysticOceansFL]

When the right femme comes along. But no sooner!

[Mr Nice Guy]

If I met the right girl. Then maybe.

[CABud]

Sorry. Didn't realize I needed to add the part about my me place. *For me* it was very different. Much more different than I ever thought it would be and I had no idea how different it would be until I had the piece of paper in my hand.

*For me* it's not about health insurance or inheritance or any of those things you mentioned. Yes, all of those can be handled in some other way. But there is no other way to be legally married other than to be legally married. I didn't think it would matter to me. I didn't think I would feel different. But it did. *To me*.

I respectful disagree. I understand how you may feel that way and others may. But, at least in my situation, and from my *me* space, it was the same feeling of marriage whether i had the certificate or i didn't. The only differences was getting all the legal stuff in order and missing out on company plan health insurance. It is more of an effort to get the legal stuff in order, but it can be done. For example, a Medical Power of Attorney. Whereas if you are married it automatically defaults to your spouse. But, a lot of these things can all be accomplished with the right lawyer. Again i say "almost all".

There are many ways to make sure you and your spouse are protected even down to the ownership of mutual belongings. You can have papers drawn up that if you ever split, everything is divided equally. Just about everything can be done legally...just takes a lot more time and effort and money.

IMO...that piece of paper only meant most of that stuff mentioned above was already done for me. Without that piece of paper it was on me to make sure everything was done that could be done legally. It's neater and tightier with the paper...that was the only diff for me.

A note of the heart: A piece of paper did not "make" me more married in my soul, it was the commitment.

With that said....i strongly STILL believe we all have the right to be married. It is way easier legally. BUT, IMO that is the only difference.

[MsTinkerbelly]

I respectful disagree. I understand how you may feel that way and others may. But, at least in my situation, and from my *me* space, it was the same feeling of marriage whether i had the certificate or i didn't. The only differences was getting all the legal stuff in order and missing out on company plan health insurance. It is more of an effort to get the legal stuff in order, but it can be done. For example, a Medical Power of Attorney. Whereas if you are married it automatically defaults to your spouse. But, a lot of these things can all be accomplished with the right lawyer. Again i say "almost all".

There are many ways to make sure you and your spouse are protected even down to the ownership of mutual belongings. You can have papers drawn up that if you ever split, everything is divided equally. Just about everything can be done legally...just takes a lot more time and effort and money.

IMO...that piece of paper only meant most of that stuff mentioned above was already done for me. Without that piece of paper it was on me to make sure everything was done that could be done legally. It's neater and tightier with the paper...that was the only diff for me.

A note of the heart: A piece of paper did not "make" me more married in my soul, it was the commitment.

With that said....i strongly STILL believe we all have the right to be married. It is way easier legally. BUT, IMO that is the only difference.



You are right when you say it is the commitment that matters..."most" people that are "married" whether legally by the State, or in another way, put that commitment behind their "vows". Maybe I would have felt the same with my Kasey if we had gone a different route...something to ponder!

[princessbelle]

Sorry. Didn't realize I needed to add the part about my me place. *For me* it was very different. Much more different than I ever thought it would be and I had no idea how different it would be until I had the piece of paper in my hand.

*For me* it's not about health insurance or inheritance or any of those things you mentioned. Yes, all of those can be handled in some other way. But there is no other way to be legally married other than to be legally married. I didn't think it would matter to me. I didn't think I would feel different. But it did. *To me*.

I hear you. We all have our own journeys for sure. I am glad that paper made a difference for you and yours. We all deserve that opportunity if we so desire for sure.

You are right when you say it is the commitment that matters..."most" people that are "married" whether legally by the State, or in another way, put that commitment behind their "vows". Maybe I would have felt the same with my Kasey if we had gone a different route...something to ponder!

Everyone is different. I just know for my two marriages, one legal and one was not, there was no difference in how i "felt" meaning felt "married". Nothing is gonna work, legal or otherwise, if the relationship goes south. That little piece of 10cent paper isn't gonna make it all better...IMO. Still hoping we have the right to have it though someday, when and if we (collective we) ever want it.

Great thread btw.

[Sassy]

My experiences have been dismal.

These days, I take each day as it comes. I wake up and say "this is where I want to be" and that's good enough for now.

Could I, would I, want more from a relationship in the future? Could I, would I, ever again consider promising a lifetime commitment? ...

Perhaps.

After a very long engagement. And a rock solid prenup.

Not very romantic, I know. :blink:

[Quintease]

My husband and I got engaged after only 3 months together, so clearly marriage is for me :D

I can only hope that if we ever separate, that I'll remember how happy I was the day we said our vows.

[MsTinkerbelly]

I am home on the iPad which won't let me quote so I'll try to make sense when I mention someone else's post.

I am not a fan of "Marriage" in particular, although for "me" I have never felt that sense of deep commitment, even in the Domestic Partnership that my Kasey and I had, without legal binding marriage. Novelafemme said that her partner needed to have the legal ceremony...I also needed that to make my union feel as valid as any other.

I am a firm believer that marriage should be civil joinings and Church marriage (two separate entities) as in some other countries. Those that want a legal equal partnership could just be joined for that purpose, and those that wanted to take it a step further could do so...does that make sense?

[Kobi]

It still boggles my mind to know in my lifetime, homosexuality has grown from illegal/criminal/mental illness to legal gay marriage.

I remember how thrilled I was when the company I worked for instituted same sex benefits. I remember how dismayed I was when gay marriage became legal in this state and same sex benefits required putting a ring on it.

I am a traditionalist. Marriage and committment ceremonies/civil unions are not the same to me. I can be committed yet have no desire to marry. I suspect the person who actually brings me to the point of entertaining marriage would be one heck of a person. :)

[Glenn]

[QUOTE=Sassy;523742]



After a very long engagement. And a rock solid prenup.

^^^^
THIS!

[clay]

I have been reading all the posts...and some excellent posts....again, TY MsTinker...excellent thread!!!
Just some FYI....I was with my "wife" for 15 years. When she was diagnosed with stage IV terminal cancer in 2007, we made all our legal papers and had them signed, and notarized!
Upon her death in 2009, I took said will and Five Wishes, that were also signed, and notarized, to Probate Court, paid my $10 fee, and was told..."that is all you need to do" and "this is legal".
Imagine MY surprise when 6 months later, I find out quite by accident that the sister had gotten ALL 3 buildings of our belongings...and the life insurance monies. HOW did she do this? My state does NOT recognize same sex relationships and we had never had any sort of ceremony, being bound by our hearts and our committment to one another!
MY POINT: do not depend on POA's, DM POA's, and Wills....I was told, much after the fact, if we had done things in a TRUST..it would have been unbreakable..by anyone. This is what I was told..and I am in NO WAY dispensing any sort of "legal advice" JUST MY own experience! I had no money to hire a lawyer, and things were already done and over with...sooo

[Gemme]

As some of you know I post a whole lot of updates regarding equal marriage in our country and elsewhere in the world. So if tomorrow you were told that you could get married, would you want to? Why or why not?

All I ask is that you (collective you) be respectful to each other and our points of view.

I'll be back later...

I don't think that I would. I've been married twice already. On one hand, you have the whole 'three times is the charm' mentality. On the other is that a piece of paper doesn't change anything. If it's broke to begin with, marriage won't fix it.

I no longer have the attachment to the fantasy associated with weddings and all the entrapments that come with it. I think, for me, the fantasy was part of the initial attraction to marriage.

In the end, though, it's nothing more than dedication and hard work dressed up in tulle and silk. I can do dedication and hard work without the fancy bits just fine.

[DapperButch]

My experiences have been dismal. These days, I take each day as it comes. I wake up and say "this is where I want to be" and that's good enough for now.

Could I, would I, want more from a relationship in the future? Could I, would I, ever again consider promising a lifetime commitment? ...

Perhaps.

After a very long engagement. And a rock solid prenup.

Not very romantic, I know. :blink:

Hey, no worries. I feel the exact same way and I haven't even had any marriages and/or combining of finances experiences, good or bad. :D

[Martina]

i am not responding to the do i believe in love or longterm partnerships for me or others part of this. In fact, i do.

Legal marriage has never appealed to me. If i were straight, i would not marry. i'd have to desperately need the insurance or something like that.

[Glenn]

Sometimes a prenup won't work. Example: Say your partner signs a prenup and legally marries you, and a few years later you open the business of your dreams and over the next several years you work your ASS off to make lots of $$$$...You put your heart and soul into the business. You're making money, you're giving them the best things in life---cars, clothes,,etc., but then they complain your spending too much time working, so they divorce you for aleiniation of affection or something. Folks, even if the business is not in their name, they can still get 50% of it's earnings because a defense attorney may be able to convince a judge they helped you succeed and they can still continue to earn money from their own career! So, if you're a person that works hard and has money, if you get married, you're gonna lose out to some degree if your partner asks for a divorce. You may not lose 50%, but you'll certainly not MAKE any money from a divorce. Now, just because you signed a pre nup, your still trusting your partner not to put up a fight and just walk away. At the very least, they can still take you to court and that costs time and money.

[Glenn]

i am not responding to the do i believe in love or longterm partnerships for me or others part of this. In fact, i do.

Legal marriage has never appealed to me. If i were straight, i would not marry. i'd have to desperately need the insurance or something like that.

You can still protect your assets by going to an attorney and signing a non marital co habitation agreement. It's a legal document that protects both of your assets.

[Nadeest]

Given that I am mostly attracted to women, and my 'preop' status, I could get married if I wished. In fact, given that I am living in Texas, it might be rather fun to walk into the Clerk of the Court's office with my partner and request a marriage licence.
At the moment, however, I don't have a partner, and none seems to be appearing over the horizon, either. Still, if it was with the right person, I think that I'd get married again.

[AtLast]

Yes. No reason to explain why it is for me other than to someone I want to marry and shares the same sentiments about marriage.

[tazz]

simply put; i'm not wired for marriage.

[chai~]

Here in Canada, we are free to marry if we choose.

I have never wanted that for myself.

I wasn't one of those girls who made sure my barbies married, never sketched dresses or cut pictures out of magazines for the "big day."

My one and only long term relationship was as married as I cared to be.
Her friends would ask me, "When are you going to change your last name?"
She was butch and I am femme, and all I could think was, "wow, what an assumption! I"M the one expected to change, I'M the one expected to give myself up!!!!"

I was expected to be absorbed by the relationship.

Makes me cringe just to think about it.

This past year I thought I had a change of heart.
Over the summer, in the span of 6 weeks, there were 3 weddings to go to. I thought, "Yeah...maybe I should get married someday."
I seemed to have wedding fever.
The more I thought about it though, I figured out it was only the party I wanted, I wanted to be queen for the day, have all my friends and family in one place to celebrate me and my partner.
I wanted the hoopla and festivities, a romantic beach wedding, barefoot and.....

Then the fever soon passed !

In a way, I guess I'm old fashioned, and I would want to be the perfect do everything super wife and mother.

And I'm afraid that I would eventually allow myself to be absorbed.

I do not believe that 2 people come together to make a whole, or that my partner would be my better/other half.

I do believe that people come together and "accessorize" each other.

Side by side, not one in front of or above the other.

I just want to be happy and balanced, with or without a partner.

Being able to choose as opposed to being told "I am not allowed," is a powerful thing, and I do wish everyone had the choice. Obviously I forgot to mention any accidents that require hospital stays. Being powerless as a person watches their partner slowly wither away and die is devastating.

[Dude]

my state just legalized it this week (55-43)

largely due to this woman's devastating story and what she did with it.

http://www.snagfilms.com/films/search?q=for+my+wife <==

yes, I hope to someday get married and have the right to be with my wife
in the ambulance, hospital or visa versa. definately and without slowing down to show anyone a flippin piece of paper.

[chai~]

my state just legalized it this week (55-43)

largely due to this woman's devastating story and what she did with it.

http://www.snagfilms.com/films/search?q=for+my+wife <==

yes, I hope to someday get married and have the right to be with my wife
in the ambulance, hospital or visa versa. definately and without slowing down to show anyone a flippin piece of paper.

I do understand and appreciate the need for these things to change. It breaks my heart to hear this, and what a devastating loss. In the instances such as this, I can absolutely see how equality is needed and it's about damn time. ~bless~

[VintageFemme]

Absolutely.

[Sparx1_1]

I've been married twice.
Once to the wrong person and once to the right person.

Getting married is not that big a deal ... it's finding the right person to get married to - then it's just something you can't not do.

[Ciaran]

I wouldn't rule out marriage per se but what I would rule out, from a personal perspective is a "conventional" marriage, whether straight or gay. By this comment, I mean that I never want to live 24/7 with a partner as I value time alone i.e. I could do 24/5 or something along those lines or live in separate condos in the same building or in nearby homes .... just not 24/7.

I'm certainly not alone in my thinking on this and the more"unconventional" is gradually becoming the conventional.

[Ciaran]

If I was told tomorrow I could get married, would I want to? Why or why not?
Having that same privilege/right as all others in society would be awesome in and of itself...for a number of reasons.


Understand what you are saying Clay but I don't think awesome is the right word in the context - same rights as others should be expected / normal.

[DapperButch]

Sometimes a prenup won't work. Example: Say your partner signs a prenup and legally marries you, and a few years later you open the business of your dreams and over the next several years you work your ASS off to make lots of $$$$...You put your heart and soul into the business. You're making money, you're giving them the best things in life---cars, clothes,,etc., but then they complain your spending too much time working, so they divorce you for aleiniation of affection or something. Folks, even if the business is not in their name, they can still get 50% of it's earnings because a defense attorney may be able to convince a judge they helped you succeed and they can still continue to earn money from their own career! So, if you're a person that works hard and has money, if you get married, you're gonna lose out to some degree if your partner asks for a divorce. You may not lose 50%, but you'll certainly not MAKE any money from a divorce. Now, just because you signed a pre nup, your still trusting your partner not to put up a fight and just walk away. At the very least, they can still take you to court and that costs time and money.

I guess my thinking about a prenups is being able to protect the assets you have coming into the marriage, rather than protecting the assests you accumulate while in the marriage. This is what I would be most conscious of. Is it really fair for me to get half of the 50K of my partner's inheritance that she came into the relationship with? I say, no. Do we each deserve half of the 50K we have put into one or the other's 401K (retirement plan) while married? Yes, I think so.

[ScandalAndy]

I love the thought of marriage as I interpret it: A public, ceremonial, legal bond between two (or more) individuals who love and respect each other, and wish not to be parted. It seems very romantic to care for someone so much that you give them the gift of yourself, and accept the gift of themselves to you in return.

That being said, I am never going to find anyone who can put up with my ass from now until eternity, so I'm just content with the thought of it. :)

[aishah]

I have been reading all the posts...and some excellent posts....again, TY MsTinker...excellent thread!!!
Just some FYI....I was with my "wife" for 15 years. When she was diagnosed with stage IV terminal cancer in 2007, we made all our legal papers and had them signed, and notarized!
Upon her death in 2009, I took said will and Five Wishes, that were also signed, and notarized, to Probate Court, paid my $10 fee, and was told..."that is all you need to do" and "this is legal".
Imagine MY surprise when 6 months later, I find out quite by accident that the sister had gotten ALL 3 buildings of our belongings...and the life insurance monies. HOW did she do this? My state does NOT recognize same sex relationships and we had never had any sort of ceremony, being bound by our hearts and our committment to one another!
MY POINT: do not depend on POA's, DM POA's, and Wills....I was told, much after the fact, if we had done things in a TRUST..it would have been unbreakable..by anyone. This is what I was told..and I am in NO WAY dispensing any sort of "legal advice" JUST MY own experience! I had no money to hire a lawyer, and things were already done and over with...sooo

THANK YOU so much for posting this.

i haven't been through this situation with a partner, but i lost both of my parents when i was 17 and neither had a will. my step-parents took EVERYTHING - the life insurance, my parents' houses, my mother's car, all of my possessions that were still in my parents' houses. even though they had acted as though everything was fine before my parents died and made promises to my parents as to how things would be handled (spending life insurance to pay off the house so my stepdad, my older sister and her kids, and i could live there if needed; splitting the remaining life insurance to help me with medical bills and my sister with getting through school with kids; etc.). my father and i had worked on a troop carrier wwii history project together for years and my stepmother and father's family had no part of it, but they stole all of the materials we worked on together and i had no access to anything (which included a library of priceless primary source material). my extended family on both sides basically abandoned me, my sister, and my nieces right after, and we were destitute. i don't care how much you trust your family or your partners - people go fucking nuts when somebody dies. TAKE CARE OF YOUR LEGAL STUFF. write your will, put it in a trust, whatever you have to do. if you want your assets to go to your partner(s) or kids when you die, do whatever you have to do to make ABSOLUTELY certain that that will happen, because if you don't, those people (including your children) have NO RIGHTS whatsoever. this is one case where trust (even in a decades-long relationship) is NOT enough.

[Okiebug61]

As long as any form of the Government has a legal foot in marriage Red and I are out. We are suppose to be guaranteed the separation of church and state. Seeing as marriage is considered to be a religious ceremony the states the feds need to back off.

[girl_dee]

As long as any form of the Government has a legal foot in marriage Red and I are out. We are suppose to be guaranteed the separation of church and state. Seeing as marriage is considered to be a religious ceremony the states the feds need to back off.

i agree, what does the government care who we sleep with/marry?

BUT that ceremony gives us rights to things we want and need.

[aishah]

i agree, what does the government care who we sleep with/marry?

BUT that ceremony gives us rights to things we want and need.


it upsets me that it's either/or. there are plenty of other ways the government can provide those rights without taking such a religious, moralizing stance on who deserves to receive them and who doesn't. imho it would be better to reform the way those benefits are allotted altogether and separate them from the romantic commitment or religious aspects of marriage - i.e. provide civil unions/domestic partnership benefits to people in committed relationships regardless of gender, sexual orientation, or monogamy/nonmonogamy - then leave it up to individual churches, temples, and other religious institutions or people who perform civil ceremonies as to whether they choose to perform the ceremony for a certain couple.

[Dude]

I have read the opening post again and simmered down a bit.
No , I would not get married tomorrow just because I could as
I am single and would need a long ( a few years) engagement prior.

It would require a lot of thought and the right person for me of course.
I dont believe in the complete each other crap and know how much
work long term relationships can be.
If it was based in reality and not the fantasy of it , yes , I would.

[MsTinkerbelly]

I have been reading all the posts...and some excellent posts....again, TY MsTinker...excellent thread!!!
Just some FYI....I was with my "wife" for 15 years. When she was diagnosed with stage IV terminal cancer in 2007, we made all our legal papers and had them signed, and notarized!
Upon her death in 2009, I took said will and Five Wishes, that were also signed, and notarized, to Probate Court, paid my $10 fee, and was told..."that is all you need to do" and "this is legal".
Imagine MY surprise when 6 months later, I find out quite by accident that the sister had gotten ALL 3 buildings of our belongings...and the life insurance monies. HOW did she do this? My state does NOT recognize same sex relationships and we had never had any sort of ceremony, being bound by our hearts and our committment to one another!
MY POINT: do not depend on POA's, DM POA's, and Wills....I was told, much after the fact, if we had done things in a TRUST..it would have been unbreakable..by anyone. This is what I was told..and I am in NO WAY dispensing any sort of "legal advice" JUST MY own experience! I had no money to hire a lawyer, and things were already done and over with...sooo

I inherited a great deal of liquid assests upon my Mother's death, and even with our "legal" marriage we have a trust. You never know who or what is going to happen.

[MsTinkerbelly]

As long as any form of the Government has a legal foot in marriage Red and I are out. We are suppose to be guaranteed the separation of church and state. Seeing as marriage is considered to be a religious ceremony the states the feds need to back off.

There are many people who feel the same way:bunchflowers:

[theoddz]

This from the script of one of my most favorite scenes in one of my most absolute favorite movies, "Out of Africa" (1985). I'm posting it because it deals with marriage and hits the nail on the head with how I feel about marriage.

Scene5

Karen: When you go away on safari, are you ever with someone else?

Denys: I'd be with you if I wanted to be with anyone.

Karen: Do you ever get lonely?

Denys: Sometimes.

Karen: Do you ever wonder if I am lonely?

Denys: No, I don't.

Karen: Do you think about me at all?

Denys: Often.

Karen: But not enough to come back.

Denys: I do come back all the time. What is it?

Karen: Nothing. Bror has asked me for a divorce. He found someone that he wants to marry. I just thought we might do that someday.

Denys: Divorce? How... How would a wedding change things?

Karen: I would have someone of my own.

Denys: You wouldn't.

Karen: What's wrong with marriage, anyway?

Denys: Have you ever seen one you admire?

Karen: Yes, I have. Many. Belfields, for one.

Denys: He sent her home for the rains in 1910. Didn't tell her they were over till 1913.

Karen: It's not a joke. People marry. It's not revolutionary. There are animals that mate for life.

Denys: Geese.

Karen: You use the damn animals for your own argument. You won't let me use them for mine.

Denys: I'd mate for life. One day at a time.

Karen: I'd just like someone to ask me once, that's all. Promise me you'll do that, if I promise to say no?

Denys: Just trust you, eh?

Karen: When you go away, you don't always go on safari, do you just want to be away.

Denys: It's not meant to hurt you.

Karen: It does.

Denys: I'm with you because I choose to be with you. I don't want to live someone else's idea of how to live. Don't ask me to do that. I don't want to find out one day that I'm at the end of someone else's life. I'm willing to pay for mine. To be lonely sometimes. To die alone, if I have to. I think that's fair.

Karen: Not quite. You want me to pay for it as well.

Denys: No, you have a choice, and you're not willing to do the same for me. I won't be closer to you and I won't love you more because of a piece of paper.

Good thread. :)

~Theo~ :bouquet:

[1QuirkyKiwi]

Yes, marriage is for me; or at the very least a commitment ceremony. Love, loyalty, devotion and commitment come from the heart to each other, yet, I want to celebrate that with my friends and family as well as my partner; whom ever she/hy maybe (K and I are no where near this stage).

The only thing I will insist on is keeping my name and hyphenating it with hers/hys. Maori women keep their maiden names and take their husbands’ as well; hyphenating the two.

[chai~]

I wouldn't rule out marriage per se but what I would rule out, from a personal perspective is a "conventional" marriage, whether straight or gay. By this comment, I mean that I never want to live 24/7 with a partner as I value time alone i.e. I could do 24/5 or something along those lines or live in separate condos in the same building or in nearby homes .... just not 24/7.

I'm certainly not alone in my thinking on this and the more"unconventional" is gradually becoming the conventional.


I feel this way also, the 24/7 thing.
I used to work with a guy who's wife lived a 1 hour plane ride away, in a neighboring province.
He was in his 50's and I was 17, so I was fascinated by this concept.
He told me it works because he likes to take work home with him, eat cereal for dinner, sit in the dark with only a lamp on, and pace the room and think. He liked having his space to ponder his life. He also liked being able to "miss" his wife, and knew he could be flying to see her for the weekend, or she would be flying in. They took turns.

I thought it was the best idea EVER!!!!
The drag of the everyday can get to be just that, a drag.
On the weekend, I tend to be more relaxed and wanting to play.
Let's do a movie, go out to dinner, visit friends etc.
Not, It's your turn to take out the garbage, I cleaned the litter box...why do you leave your socks on the floor when the basket is right there!!!! Blah blah blah!!!!

To me, it would be always date night!!!

I guess the immediate idea of marriage, living together, eating together, groceries together, being with someone ALL the time, is just too much for me.

I am luckier than I know, being able to have a partner on my health care insurance, on my emergency call list, etc. I am SO lucky.

Come to Canada everyone, we might have some cookies, but we do have a lot of other things!

[LaneyDoll]

I thought it was the best idea EVER!!!!
The drag of the everyday can get to be just that, a drag.
On the weekend, I tend to be more relaxed and wanting to play.
Let's do a movie, go out to dinner, visit friends etc.
Not, It's your turn to take out the garbage, I cleaned the litter box...why do you leave your socks on the floor when the basket is right there!!!! Blah blah blah!!!!

To me, it would be always date night!!!



I like the way you stated this. Sun-Thurs, I am in full-blown, kid-wrangling mode. I leave work, pick up kids, run necessary errands, go home, do homework, do housework, make sure showers are taken & clothes laid out for the next day. And, at some point in the day, I try to have a little "me" time.

Honestly, I think that my life can be a circus.

I understand that there are people out there who would gladly be part of that in exchange for an always quiet house, always eating alone, going to bed alone. But I would never want anyone to think I was looking for a maid, a parent, a tutor, a fellow ringleader etc when what I really wanted was a partner.

:sparklyheart:

[tantalizingfemme]

Had I been asked if I believed in marriage twenty years ago, I would have answered with a resounding "hell no"; but I have come to realize that my perception was tainted by my parents bad marriage and very ugly divorce.

Today, my answer is absolutely. For me, it is the deepest level of commitment, trust and love.

Now, to stray off for a minute, I wanted to say something about this:

Sometimes a prenup won't work. Example: Say your partner signs a prenup and legally marries you, and a few years later you open the business of your dreams and over the next several years you work your ASS off to make lots of $$$$...You put your heart and soul into the business. You're making money, you're giving them the best things in life---cars, clothes,,etc., but then they complain your spending too much time working, so they divorce you for aleiniation of affection or something. Folks, even if the business is not in their name, they can still get 50% of it's earnings because a defense attorney may be able to convince a judge they helped you succeed and they can still continue to earn money from their own career! So, if you're a person that works hard and has money, if you get married, you're gonna lose out to some degree if your partner asks for a divorce. You may not lose 50%, but you'll certainly not MAKE any money from a divorce. Now, just because you signed a pre nup, your still trusting your partner not to put up a fight and just walk away. At the very least, they can still take you to court and that costs time and money.

I guess the way I look at this is:

Let's say that Dapperbutch and I were married and hy started a business that helped people learn how to ask the right million questions to clarify whatever they needed clarification for, in life.

So imagine 10 years down the line, when hys business is successful...when hy is world renowned and featured every Wednesday night at 8:00pm on OWN TV for hys expertise on the Art of Questioning, I decide I want a divorce. Is it hys success and hys success only? No. Because 10 years earlier, hy wanted to start a business and he needed support. For hym to start this business, hy needed to rent space to be able to work (because I don't think the marriage would have lasted that long had it been run out of the house) and that costs money, as did all necessary equipment, services, business license, insurance etc...

Now, as we all know, businesses normally do not make money for the first few years, and most of hys time would be at the site. Well, I imagine it would have been my salary that would cover the loan payments, and bills for a while, along with my having to cover hys medical and dental insurance through my agency. Not just the money I paid out, but I would have managed the household, the household bills and any issues that come up at home so that hy was able be able to concentrate on building hys business.

And let's not forget emotional support. I was the one that was there for hym, during the ups and downs all these years, cheerleading him on. (imagine the pom pom smiley here)

Would it seem reasonable that when we divorced that I don't get anything from the business? To me it doesn't. And for most people I know who own their own businesses, the spouse is the person that does everything outside of the business to make it possible for that person to focus on the business and not have to worry about household/child issues. So I believe that I would be entitled to a percentage of the business, as I did help to build it.

I hope that all made sense. :)

Thanks for letting me ramble.

[Trey339]

A Definite 'Yes'

[MsTinkerbelly]

I wouldn't rule out marriage per se but what I would rule out, from a personal perspective is a "conventional" marriage, whether straight or gay. By this comment, I mean that I never want to live 24/7 with a partner as I value time alone i.e. I could do 24/5 or something along those lines or live in separate condos in the same building or in nearby homes .... just not 24/7.

I'm certainly not alone in my thinking on this and the more"unconventional" is gradually becoming the conventional.

I think this would be the ideal situation...I love living with Kasey and the family we have made...I love coming home to her, and watching her sleep...but I would LOVE to have a couple of days a week, month, whatever to myself. I crave alone time, and now that she works from home I get very little.

[Greyson]

I think this would be the ideal situation...I love living with Kasey and the family we have made...I love coming home to her, and watching her sleep...but I would LOVE to have a couple of days a week, month, whatever to myself. I crave alone time, and now that she works from home I get very little.

Although I am not married, I am in a 3 year monogomous relationship with my girlfriend. I spent many years living alone. Either I was "dating" or in a serious long distance relationhip. I discovered the joys of alone time.

Logistically I have the best scenario going, for me. I live next door to my girlfriend. Our schedules allow the two of us some alone time at least once a week. My gf has joint custody of her 9 year old daughter and finding alone time can be a challenge.

I am not complaining. What I am saying is that I have found that the "traditional" set up may not always work in the best interest of my relationship and maybe for others.

[Cin]

For me, there has always been marriage between myself and those I love, whether it was legally sanctioned by the state or not. Marriage means a commitment of my heart. And I wouldn’t be with you if I were not committed to you. Well, it happened once. However, I prefer to believe that was an anomaly brought about in response to a unique set of circumstances and not likely to reoccur. So when I partner it has always been a marriage to me. However the benefit of a legal marriage is another matter and one I had not considered important until recently.

Truly Scrumptious and I lived in different countries and when we first began our relationship neither country recognized same sex marriage. However, Canada recognized common law or conjugal relationships between same sex partners for purposes of immigration. The U.S. has no provision for same sex partner immigration, so there didn’t need to be a lot of conversation about what we were going to do.

It was right around the time of my moving to Quebec, that Canada decided to recognize gay marriage federally. It would be another six years before we would get married.

I married Truly because I love her, of course, but also for legal purposes and in the hopes that someday I might be able to bring my wife home to be near the other love of my life, the Cape Cod National Seashore. I married for the ease and convenience that marriage affords. Although I had a hard time figuring out what those conveniences were living here. In Canada one need not be married to claim one another for income tax purposes. In Quebec, if they offer health insurance, employers are required by law to insure the partners of employees including same sex partners, or any common law/conjugal partner of any sex. Also in Quebec when you marry no names are changed. If you want your name changed you need to go and do it legally and pay for it. It is not an automatic thing. So really I was hard pressed to imagine what the difference a piece of paper could possibly make. I did figure it would make things easier in the event of illness or death. Although a friend who gives financial advice for a living recommends a will for ease and speed. Yet, I could not help but think if we were married it would appear more of a commitment.

Although we could have gotten married in Montreal, we chose to marry in Vermont in order to keep a foothold in the U.S. On the off chance that the U.S. would recognize gay marriage on a federal level, we thought it would look good if we could say we had been married in the U.S. It is a way of keeping the possibility of coming back there to live with my wife a viable option should anything change. I did not choose to leave my country. My country pushed me away when it refused to allow me to sponsor the woman I loved for immigration. When it would not let me bring her home, the U.S. gave me no choice but to change my home so that my heart could stay in my chest rather than follow Truly to Canada alone. It is more difficult than I imagined to love two countries. Canada has earned my loyalty but the United States holds my history. I thought I would walk away from the U.S. and never look back, especially considering how pissed off I was about how things ended between us. But it is not that easy to turn one’s back on one’s roots. Besides I may have been forced to leave if I wanted to be with the woman I love, but I’m not letting them take any more away from me. It’s not that easy to get rid of me. So I still vote in U.S. elections and stay involved in U.S. politics. For me, legalizing marriage on the federal level in the U.S. means moving back there with my wife becomes an option. That is one benefit gay marriage affords us. The residing country for those in binational relationships becomes one of choice. Instead of a hmmm, what country will have us, then let’s move there, kind of thing. Not that we might not have chosen Canada anyway given socialized medicine, which is awesome by the way. As well as how the heart of the distinct society called Quebec matches mine so well. But it would have been our decision. And the pain of missing my ocean would feel different if I had chosen it.

When we decided to get married, I never imagined it would feel any differently. I knew I could not love T.S. more because of a piece of paper. I believed it would have no effect whatsoever. I was wrong. It deeply moved me. The ceremony itself and the reality of being married, of being legally required to be here, has been profoundly affecting.

I’m not a fan of prenups. I get why they are important but it feels like I’m betting against myself.

The idea of keeping separate condos or houses is an interesting one, but it is unlikely that the average couple could afford to maintain two homes, regardless of how independent they would like to remain. I guess it’s a good option if you have the finances for it. It is difficult enough for most people I know to live with roommates or partners sharing expenses. A singular existence is becoming more and more economically difficult in these hard times. I guess one could keep the apartment one has with one’s roommate or roommates. But I would imagine for many, if they have to live with someone, pool finances and share expenses it might as well be their spouse. Most will likely have to settle for reading a book in another room, or if they only have one room, they will have to take long walks alone, wander through a bookstore, take in a soft ball game at a neighborhood park or find some other affordable way to get the valued time alone they crave.

[Chancie]

For me, these are two different questions, whether I would get married, if full equal legal marriage were available to same sex couples, and whether I believe in serious lifelong commitment.

I can't imagine being with anyone but Pete, and maybe we'll make a public commitment in front of our familes and close friends, but even in Massachusetts, there are only limited legal protections. I miss her like crazy when we are apart during the week, but sometimes I think, What the hell would I do if she were here when I got home from work and all I want to do is drink seltzer and watch The Big Bang Theory. Next door sounds great to me.

My ex and I used to say that we wanted to be together forever, one day at a time, but by the time she fell out of love with me, she wasn't much interested in working towards a healthy loving end to our ten year relationship. Our commitment ceremony predated same sex marriage in Massachusetts, and I was put in the position of having to hire a lawyer to protect my financial interests in the home we bought and lived in together.

I know it's not a popular idea, but I see same sex marriage as offering legal and contractual protection and as a civil rights issue, but not a measure of true commitment to a relationship.

[Bella~Vita]

A while back I would of said yes to marriage, but now I love my alone time. My partner has hys own place down the road from me. Actually, it works out quite well. When we want to be together we can. And also enjoy own independence. I feel I have the best of both worlds. It's not about being able to be with someone else because we have an understanding that we are partners .... this is the happiest I been in quite awhile. We decided in the beginning that we would not rush it. So we took months of just getting to know one another without the sex, it was the best decision for me and hym.


It works for us so far. :koolaid:

[MsTinkerbelly]

For me, these are two different questions, whether I would get married, if full equal legal marriage were available to same sex couples, and whether I believe in serious lifelong commitment.

I can't imagine being with anyone but Pete, and maybe we'll make a public commitment in front of our familes and close friends, but even in Massachusetts, there are only limited legal protections. I miss her like crazy when we are apart during the week, but sometimes I think, What the hell would I do if she were here when I got home from work and all I want to do is drink seltzer and watch The Big Bang Theory. Next door sounds great to me.

My ex and I used to say that we wanted to be together forever, one day at a time, but by the time she fell out of love with me, she wasn't much interested in working towards a healthy loving end to our ten year relationship. Our commitment ceremony predated same sex marriage in Massachusetts, and I was put in the position of having to hire a lawyer to protect my financial interests in the home we bought and lived in together.

I know it's not a popular idea, but I see same sex marriage as offering legal and contractual protection and as a civil rights issue, but not a measure of true commitment to a relationship.

A lot of very good points.

If someone no longer wants to work and make the marriage a living thing, no piece of paper is going to keep them there.

I really wish that we as a whole were better at fighting for our basic civil rights so that "marriage" would not be the focus of the struggle to earn an equal playing field in jobs/housing/basic human dignity.

[Ciaran]

I think this would be the ideal situation...I love living with Kasey and the family we have made...I love coming home to her, and watching her sleep...but I would LOVE to have a couple of days a week, month, whatever to myself. I crave alone time, and now that she works from home I get very little.

The difficulty that I sometimes have is one of societal expectations and many of those expectations are the same whether we are straight, gay or somewhere in between.

One of those expectations is that, if you're in love with someone you want to spend 24 / 7 with them. I've no doubt that works for many, probably most, folk but it just doesn't for me. Part of the reason may be that I've spent most of my adult life either single or in what would be termed reasonably casual relationships.

As a result, I've become accustomed to my own space and feel very claustrophic if I feel it's under threat and, furthermore, for right or wrong, whilst I've craved love and intimacy, I've not craved it in a 24 / 7 sense.

I just cannot do 24 / 7 in that "normal way" .... closest I could get to this would be separate bedrooms / living spaces in the same h.ouse.

The difficultly I often have is that, in the past, when articulating these feelings to partners, many have felt slighted or have questioned my commitment when, from my perspective, it wasn't about love or commitment ... but about preserving my sanity and preserving and actually strengthening a relationship.

[MsTinkerbelly]

For those of you choosing "alternate joining" rather than marriage as your status, would you mind explaining your arrangements and why not "marriage", and for those choosing no marriage ever, what led you to this point?

[Gráinne]

I think I'm harder to live with as I get older. I get "peopled out" easily at work, and love to come home to a shower and a bowl of Raisin Bran for dinner. I like keeping my home as I like it, and not picking up all the time after someone else. If I want to decorate it a certain way, it can be mine, all mine :).

Ciaran's posts ring a bell for me. I'm so much better when I have about 2x "me time" for 1x "couple time", if that makes sense. It's not a reflection on my partner, but what I need to be happiest.

[Kobi]

I think I'm harder to live with as I get older. I get "peopled out" easily at work, and love to come home to a shower and a bowl of Raisin Bran for dinner. I like keeping my home as I like it, and not picking up all the time after someone else. If I want to decorate it a certain way, it can be mine, all mine :).

Ciaran's posts ring a bell for me. I'm so much better when I have about 2x "me time" for 1x "couple time", if that makes sense. It's not a reflection on my partner, but what I need to be happiest.



I am soooo glad to hear you and Ciaran address this. I feel similar. I have a life filled with things that make me who I am and make me happy. Being part of a couple isnt a substitute for this, it is an adjunct.

Finding the right mix of "me" time and "we" time can be tricky to say the least.

[Ginger]

It's been pointed out to me that if my partner and I married, my taxes would likely go through the roof, and I would be liable for her debt (not that she's a gambler or anything; I just mean, in general).

[DapperButch]

It's been pointed out to me that if my partner and I married, my taxes would likely go through the roof, and I would be liable for her debt (not that she's a gambler or anything; I just mean, in general).

I don't believe that is for the debt that he/she comes in with, but it probably would be for any debt she creates while in the marriage, if you divorce. To be sure, check where you live.

With that said, certainly we are held hostage to our new spouse's debt in one way or another. If I have 50K in debt, it surely would impact how many vacations I could go on with Tantalizing. Thus, my debt would be impacting her life if she is debt free and wants to go away every other month.

[Ginger]

I don't believe that is for the debt that he/she comes in with, but it probably would be for any debt she creates while in the marriage, if you divorce. To be sure, check where you live.

With that said, certainly we are held hostage to our new spouse's debt in one way or another. If I have 50K in debt, it surely would impact how many vacations I could go on with Tantalizing. Thus, my debt would be impacting her life if she is debt free and wants to go away every other month.

The person who pointed that out to me is my partner herself, LOL.

[Christy51274]

Being married is fun, so long as it's with the right person. Been married twice and they say the third time's a charm. Of course, it's not for everyone, but I kinda like it.

:blueheels:

[wetfromashower]

I would love to marry... But when and if I do... I'm only doing it once... I'm a forever kind of person... I want that kind of love... It's why I've been single for so long... I'm looking for Ms. Right not for Ms Right now...

[StrongButch]

I would only marry after several years of dating. I would marry traditionally the way my ancestors have married for hundreds of years. I am native and believe our ways need to be kept alive and passed on from generation to generation.

[*Anya*]

Yes I would marry and yes I want to marry again (once to a bio man long, long ago).

Underneath it all, I am an old-fashioned traditionalist.

I still believe in what marriage stands for.

To me, it is a real commitment, with all the legal benefits and protections, a confirmation of our love, sticking around through thick and thin, good times and bad and working through the hard times. Not quite as easy to just walk away.

This is how I feel.

Other posts reflect different perspectives.

[G Snap!]

I was married in '92 to a bio-male. We dated for over 6 years before we got married, but the one thing he refused to do was live together.
Big mistake. He was a momma's boy and after doing ALL the housework for two years I had enough. There is more I was unhappy about, I will not list them.

I swore for years I would never get married. I was so eager to get out of the marriage I forgot to request I could resume using my maiden name. Filing the legal request, and all of the time and expense of changing my name back - on everything, driver's license, ss card, etc. - was a pain in the arse.

I swore left right up and down I would never do it again. Besides, I think a relationship takes more commitment when you are not legally obligated.

But here I am now, two + years later and I am considering it, heck I even asked him to marry me. I LOVE living with chefhmboyrd. I am in no rush, and we can't be legally married in TN anyways. TN would be last on that policy, for sure, since legal marriage (according to the state) is a union between a male and a female in front of a priest. I have already been married once before god, and it failed. So I won't do that again.

We have a domestic partnership, notarized per his employer's policies, so I am on his health insurance and such. I would like to file for marriage in Massachusetts, but we haven't found the time or resources for that yet. We were both born there, so it seems fitting, and I feel if same-sex marriage is ever recognized federally, our MA union would hold.

My divorce left me with the opinion that marriage is a legal union between two people, sort of like a corporation, a contract binding the two. I do believe in commitment /marriage ceremonies and what they stand for, look up "marry" in the dictionary. However, I feel if two people take legal steps to form a union, they should be recognized by the law and not be invalidated because the union was between two parties of the same gender.

I step down from the soapbox. Carry on, my fellow love bunnies.

[Okiebug61]

Red and I will celebrate 9yrs in December. We fall into the 24/7 box however. Here is a typical day.

5:45 -I get up and turn on the coffee maker, let 2 of the 5 dogs out. I then sit at the computer and have my cup of coffee reading the news.

6:15-I take a shower and get ready for work.

6:45-Red gets up which is usually a major chore she is not a morning person. I make her a cup of coffee and sit it on her makeup desk. I spend the next 20mins trying to get the 3 amigos to get out of bed and go outside.

7:15-Red is heading out for work. She is a school teacher and works 8:00-5:30. Her commute is 45mins. Two nights a week she does after school daycare which means she gets home around 7-7:30. Then there are those days where there are unscheduled parent teacher meetings and various other last minute things that commonly happen in a school enviroment.

8:00-I work on commission only so I do not have a set time table. If I have a lead I schedule the time myself. My days vary so much that I can not even think of what a real schedule looks like.

6:00-7:00 pm Red usually wonders in around this time. I am here sometimes and sometimes I am on a sales lead. We aren't very good about planning dinner so we usually just figure something out when we both get home.

10:00pm-It's pretty much bed time for the both of us. So during the last 3 hours we haven't really done much but cook dinner, sit down for a few minutes and work on what's happening the next day.

So If we sleep 8 hours and we work 12 hour days that leaves 4 hours a day that we may have time to do something together during the week. Weekends are usually filled with getting ready for the next week.

Red travels alot during the summer and I usually have 2-3 weeks alone time. I have things I do that she doesn't partake in so we feel we have the me time.

To sum it up 24/7 works for us, if we were apart anymore we'd not know much about each other.

[Tony]

Marriage is very definatly for me. Hell, I've done it twice. Lol
I believe in the sanctity of marriage & feel it's the ultimate commitment. Will I marry again? Absolutely. My first marriage was convenient; she was pregnant, needed a father for the baby & I wanted to be a dad. The second, years later, was unadulterated pure love. I learned a lot from my second wife & marriage & continue to grow & evolve. Hopefully 3 will be the charm.
Just my experience & .02.

[Two-spirit]

Hello,

Im all in favor for anyone to get married..They should get everything hetersexuals gets..plainand simple..

I never saw myself getting married, even thou I have been asked a few times.I would feel trapped,but I do like living with someone and going that route..

yes for equal marriage !!

[Leigh]

I want very much to get married someday :)

[Hominid]

I can't believe I'm saying this after being financially and emotionally devastated by a divorce 3 years ago, but I loved being married. And dammit, I'd do it again. Always tilting at a windmill ...

[SleepyButch]

I would get married if I found the right person.

[girl_dee]

Red and I will celebrate 9yrs in December. We fall into the 24/7 box however. Here is a typical day.

5:45 -I get up and turn on the coffee maker, let 2 of the 5 dogs out. I then sit at the computer and have my cup of coffee reading the news.

6:15-I take a shower and get ready for work.

6:45-Red gets up which is usually a major chore she is not a morning person. I make her a cup of coffee and sit it on her makeup desk. I spend the next 20mins trying to get the 3 amigos to get out of bed and go outside.

7:15-Red is heading out for work. She is a school teacher and works 8:00-5:30. Her commute is 45mins. Two nights a week she does after school daycare which means she gets home around 7-7:30. Then there are those days where there are unscheduled parent teacher meetings and various other last minute things that commonly happen in a school enviroment.

8:00-I work on commission only so I do not have a set time table. If I have a lead I schedule the time myself. My days vary so much that I can not even think of what a real schedule looks like.

6:00-7:00 pm Red usually wonders in around this time. I am here sometimes and sometimes I am on a sales lead. We aren't very good about planning dinner so we usually just figure something out when we both get home.

10:00pm-It's pretty much bed time for the both of us. So during the last 3 hours we haven't really done much but cook dinner, sit down for a few minutes and work on what's happening the next day.

So If we sleep 8 hours and we work 12 hour days that leaves 4 hours a day that we may have time to do something together during the week. Weekends are usually filled with getting ready for the next week.

Red travels alot during the summer and I usually have 2-3 weeks alone time. I have things I do that she doesn't partake in so we feel we have the me time.

To sum it up 24/7 works for us, if we were apart anymore we'd not know much about each other.


You two are so awesome! Loved meeting you !

[Mtn]

We are engaged! First time ever for me, and I am very excited about it. We will marry "legally" in Canada, so she can take my name, then we will have another celebration of our commitment here. When we can legally marry in Oregon, we will do that too. I'm a fan. WE are blessed in so many ways. I look forward to the rest of my life with my BEAUTIFUL wife-to-be.

[MsTinkerbelly]

We are engaged! First time ever for me, and I am very excited about it. We will marry "legally" in Canada, so she can take my name, then we will have another celebration of our commitment here. When we can legally marry in Oregon, we will do that too. I'm a fan. WE are blessed in so many ways. I look forward to the rest of my life with my BEAUTIFUL wife-to-be.

Fantastic news!

I wish the very best in life for the both of you.:rrose:

[Prudence]

Nope. . . .

[twinkletoes]

I personally don't believe in marriage as an institution - I don't feel a piece of paper and a legal recognition of a partnership has anything to do with nor should have anything to do with the love two people share in whatever way or for as long as they choose. However, I do agree with what other people on this thread have said, I feel blessed that should my opinions change at some point in the future I will be able to enjoy the same right as hetereosexual couples have in marrying the woman I love.

[Bard]

I always said I would never ever BUT I met the lovely lady I call my wife and we dated for 3 years before we wed. I can't even think of being with out her we match each other so very well. I wanted to give her everything and the thing that most precious to me ... my last name living in NY we were able to legally marry she was on my benefits even before we got hitched to sum it up I married my best friend and it was the happiest day of my life

[imperfect_cupcake]

Other: Divorced in your country/state. (have been married)

I was always against marriage for myself. Then when I did it, the validation I got from exchanging vows in front of 40 witnessness and having a justice of the peace tell us we were now a part of Amsterdam history archives... I dunno... just felt emmense. And the level of betrayal I felt for my wife going against the vows she made in front of 40 witnesses... the outrage those witnesses felt as well... was one of the most agonising things I had ever felt.

I now "get" the impact of marraige ceremony, for me.

[MsTinkerbelly]

Other: Divorced in your country/state. (have been married)

I was always against marriage for myself. Then when I did it, the validation I got from exchanging vows in front of 40 witnessness and having a justice of the peace tell us we were now a part of Amsterdam history archives... I dunno... just felt emmense. And the level of betrayal I felt for my wife going against the vows she made in front of 40 witnesses... the outrage those witnesses felt as well... was one of the most agonising things I had ever felt.

I now "get" the impact of marraige ceremony, for me.

Marriage for me changes everything, it changes the level of commitment I bring to the relationship. For me, living together, dating, long distance...none of those things made me want to get up day after day and tell myself I choose to be here; good, bad, ugly, wonderful...and do the work needed to make that forever a reality.

Something changes in me when I stand before family, friends, my God...I am human and I have human failings, but at the end of the day I would never do anything to harm my marriage or my wife.

[Kent]

Absolutely!

[Fatale]

I recently received an invitation to a lesbian wedding in the mail and found myself hosting dichotomous emotions. On the one hand, of course I was happy for my friends. They've found someone with whom they want to share their lives, come what may. On the other, I myself thinking, "Ugh, really? Do we have to be so fucking assimilationistic? (I doubt that's an actual word, but it works for me contextually) Of course I'm all for everyone having equal rights, blah, blah, but do we always have to resort to heteronormative paradigms? I think that's my biggest issue with the whole marriage "thing". I want the benefits, should I choose to embrace them, but I so strongly wish it didn't mirror nonqueer society in order to grant me said rights. Is that just having cake and wanting to eat it, too?

[Rockinonahigh]

I once said never again would I ever take the trip down the isle,I did it twice both were for all the wrong reasons at diffrent times of my life.The first to young and wanting to get away from home..didnt happen then divorce and two kids later turned me upside down like I never thought I would be dealing with.The second he was a friend from my past who my kids loved like a dad..he loved them as well so it became a conveniance thing evn tho he knew I didnt do bio guys ever again.As with things it came to an end and we are still friends tho with a lot of distance.
At this point in my life i'm free,that sounds great but it dose get to be a lonly road to walk.If I ever do tale the plunge again I will spend time makeing shure its what we both want and what we both can handle the ebb and flow of the life.I'm older,I hope wiser.The future,well we will see.

[imperfect_cupcake]

marriage, for me, was aping no hettie. The rules of our marriage was between me and my wife. two wives.

Our marriage aped heterosexuals about as much as our sex life does. we have sex at night in a bed most of the time, just like hetties. We eat three meals a day, just like hetties. we go to work, go to the park, roller skate, ride a bike, have kids, have cats, travel, stay in B&B's ( and want the same rights about staying in a B&B in the same bed as a hettie) but all of these things aren't "aping" hetties. So why would the choice to get married and be self sovreign over your own relationship be aping a hettie any more than all the other things we do in a day/lifetime that's the same at hetties?

I didn't own my wife. she didn't own me. Just like the original meaning of the term "queer" wasn't very nice but it's been reclaimed. I reclaimed marriage for myself and my wife. Our rules. Our love. Our decisions. I get really pissed off about people saying my marraige aped some hetties marriage. How the hell would they know?

I also get pissed off with people saying my partners using a strap on apes heterosexual sex too.

[RockOn]

If my partner picker wasn't broken, I would say "yes." But since that is not the case, my answer is "no".

[WolfyOne]

I didn't answer your poll because the question is different from the poll you actually have up.
You seem to want a status rather than a yes or no to is it for me.

As for marriage being for me, I never say never.
I guess it just depends on the one that I give my heart to the next. time

[Beloved]

I'm divorced.

I would get married again one day if I felt it was the right person, place and circumstance. If it doesn't happen I am ok with that, too. It's not a goal, but if it happens, it happens. And I plan on making a MUCH better decision next time than I did the first! I didn't get married for the right reasons the first time.

[MsTinkerbelly]

I didn't answer your poll because the question is different from the poll you actually have up.
You seem to want a status rather than a yes or no to is it for me.

As for marriage being for me, I never say never.
I guess it just depends on the one that I give my heart to the next. time

Things morph and change (like marriage or not marriage), and I was really hoping for some discussion...your answer is perfect!

[Rope]

I believe in open marriage. It has worked for me for years. In my current situation, I have been in an open marriage for 10 years (maybe longer, she's the one that keeps track).

Do I believe we, LGBT people deserve the right to get married? Absolutely. However, is this our only rallying cry in the LGBT community, because it kind of seems like it is.

Housing discrimination, job discrimination, bullying of LGBT kids or perceived LGBT kids, hate crimes---seem to me MUCH bigger issues in which to rally our community around.

Rope--

[MsTinkerbelly]

I believe in open marriage. It has worked for me for years. In my current situation, I have been in an open marriage for 10 years (maybe longer, she's the one that keeps track).

Do I believe we, LGBT people deserve the right to get married? Absolutely. However, is this our only rallying cry in the LGBT community, because it kind of seems like it is.

Housing discrimination, job discrimination, bullying of LGBT kids or perceived LGBT kids, hate crimes---seem to me MUCH bigger issues in which to rally our community around.

Rope--

I completely agree that there are much more important issues for our community...however this one seems to wake up everyone and suceed in bringing visability to our struggles.

Equality is important, human dignity is imperative, but what other issue has brought our struggles to this point? We have to fight the battles as they come (in my opinion), and after marriage we go for something else...because we are seen as "equal" in one way, it will be harder to justify continued inequality in housing, jobs, etc....

[TenderDaddy]

If I met the right girl, I would absoulutly ask her to marry me. I love the idea of it. Are there other issues affecting our community, yes there are. But marriage is an issue of the heart and of love and for me a very important issue. I want to be able to marry the person I love just like any other person on the planet. We are all human, gay, straight and everyone in between. If I want to marry my fellow human no matter what the gender or orientation, I should be able to do it without judgement. So yes marriage is for me. And wherever you are girl of my dreams....look out cause I'm coming for ya and I'm gonna ask you to marry me ;)

[Angeltoes]

No, but being in love and monogamous is. I just don't like contracts with the government.

[lusciouskiwi]

Seeing as we now have equal marriage in Aotearoa/New Zealand, I'm a hell yeah! I'm never been married, but want to some day.

[NorCalStud]

I am unconventional about marriage besides the obvious. Marriage is a heart place. I am monogomous about that set of feelings. I have the one place there for her. I love living alone. I dont mind not being in the same town. I would like two houses tho. I dont have to have our lives intertwine. Im not sure I am capable of intertwining. Marriage means you are my priority along with your children and my family. Marriage means sharing.

Marriage is a feeling that doesnt go away. It is something I feel I cannot change and that I cannot control. I have tried. It is like wifefi. It is always there except when service gets interrupted.

[wahya]

Been married twice for 11 yrs each time.. I hear third times a charm! So Yes. I do & would again.

[Sweetfeme]

If I met the right girl, I would absoulutly ask her to marry me. I love the idea of it. Are there other issues affecting our community, yes there are. But marriage is an issue of the heart and of love and for me a very important issue. I want to be able to marry the person I love just like any other person on the planet. We are all human, gay, straight and everyone in between. If I want to marry my fellow human no matter what the gender or orientation, I should be able to do it without judgement. So yes marriage is for me. And wherever you are girl of my dreams....look out cause I'm coming for ya and I'm gonna ask you to marry me ;)


Very adorable !! :)

[MysticOceansFL]

I was married for six years and been single longer than that. But yes marriage is for me I'm just selective of who I marry.

[kittygrrl]

is just a word some people take seriously and others just pretend to take seriously. If I need a piece of paper to convince me, where I belong who my heart belongs to or I need to feel safe I need therapy not a license.

[Velvetkitten]

is just a word some people take seriously and others just pretend to take seriously. If I need a piece of paper to convince me, where I belong who my heart belongs to or I need to feel safe I need therapy not a license.

With all do respect IMHO it is more then just a piece of paper. It could mean the difference between someone having admittance to their partner in a hospital or being allowed to make decisions for said partner. Then there's tax breaks and I could go on.
As for the question. I've been married twice.The first time I was way to young and not for the right reasons as we were pressured by family.The second one was to my partner of 11 years we are divorced but on good terms. So would I marry again, absolutely I love the commitment and love that surrounds it.

[kittygrrl]

With all do respect IMHO it is more then just a piece of paper. It could mean the difference between someone having admittance to their partner in a hospital or being allowed to make decisions for said partner. Then there's tax breaks and I could go on.
As for the question. I've been married twice.The first time I was way to young and not for the right reasons as we were pressured by family.The second one was to my partner of 11 years we are divorced but on good terms. So would I marry again, absolutely I love the commitment and love that surrounds it.

I see, well it depends how you look at it. A power of attorney is effective, actually more powerful than a license. And why do I need a license to show love and commitment? It's a personal choice.

[Tuff Stuff]

:knitgirl:

I Never was,so i'm somewhat curious about being married..
but like..curiousity killed the cat.
:knit:

[JDeere]

I have never been married so IDK.

Now that it is legal in the US, I still don't know if I want to be married

My choice of partners hasn't been good or the relationships don't last long.

I really do not want to deal with all that entails a failed marriage either.

[TruTexan]

Marriage? Is it for me? I would say YES. I want to be married to the love of my life. Right now, I'm single, I just haven't met the right woman YET.
Maybe one day I will find the Right woman for me.

[betruetoyoursoul]

I realize marriage is not for everyone....In the future I would love to be married to my forever love*S

[Jane Bond]

I was married to a woman and she cheated and ...never again unless the pre-nup is 100 pages long, my lawyer wrote it, and if anyone cheats they get dropped into the Pacific by helicopter. At night. With sardines in her pockets.
Please, no PC lectures--I am still a bit agitated at the ex wife :seeingstars:

[cinnamongrrl]

I tried it. Didnt like it. Never.Again.

[VintageFemme]

Absolutely.

It's the stuff my dreams are made of.

[Glenn]

Yes. I have been faithfully married for 35 years. But it is very hard. Sh*it happens. I probably would have still been married if my wife hadn't become incurably ill with schizophrenia. You'll need a lot of patience, discipline, and control, along with genuine respect and love, to make it last a life-time.

[imperfect_cupcake]

Got married once. Loved the bond and loved being called wife. My error was with what happend between us and in not understanding certain aspects of character with my exwife.

So yes, I would do it again. I think I'd be even more cautious about it, and yes a prenup (even though I never had any problems that way between my ex and I), and I wouldn't want us to live together. I feel much, much more open to getting married again than to living with someone again.

Besides, where I live, if we live together for two years, we are domestic partners and all the same legal stuff kicks in anyway. Might as well have a big party, be able to be called a wife, and NOT live together!

I'm not raising kids or dogs, I have my own money, my own career and soon my own place. Id like to share the good stuff with someone, not become jointly locked in debt and domestic chores. Wow. Sexy.

[Shystonefem]

I don't know.

My license plate clearly reads "nvr*agn". Lol

There would have to be a prenup and we would have to agree on everything to do with finances, chores, etc before we got married.

I was cheated on and, although we split the houses, the cheat and cheater live in the house I used to live in.

I guess the answer is no unless someone blows my mind.

[Orema]

I'm not getting married again. I was married to a man for a very long time and lived with a woman for a number of years and I don't want those kinds of relationships again.

Living on opposite sides of the park, lake or city is what I want, or even different cities would work for me. Spend a few days at her place, a few at mine, then off on our own. I like exclusive and monogamous relationships, but I need my own space and want time on my own.

[RockOn]

Is marriage for me?
Never!!

[CherylNYC]

Marriage? Perhaps... well, maybe. Not really sure.

I've never been married although I was handfasted to my long-ago ex. We also got domestic partnership, which was the only government sponsored relationship validation available to us at the time. My ex regarded our relationship as a marriage, but I did not. She was narcissistic and very difficult. I would not have gotten married to her had that been available to us, but we had all the trappings of marriage except shared bank accounts, thank the Goddess.

I very likely could have eventually gotten married to my late partner, but it wasn't available and we were only together four years before her accident. Four years just isn't long enough for me to make that choice. I would have to know and trust a person for a very, very long time before I took such a drastic step.

Now I just don't feel as if there's a life partner for me somewhere out in our small world. If I were to meet her... oh, I don't know.

Maybe.

[imperfect_cupcake]

Of course I would only marry someone who blew my socks off and I knew for years, we travelled well together, we were sexually great together, had similar goals and values, and both of us fit the not living together dynamic I mentioned.

I didn't get married to six out of seven of my long term relationships. Of course they would have to be someone I wanted to be with through thick and thin.

I'm baffled that anyone would get married for anything less than someone who blew them out of the water and to someone who fit extremely well within your life. Isn't that why you wait at least five years before marrying someone? I know people who have waited 12 years.

Who is running off and getting married less than three years with someone? That's not the fault of marriage. That's the fault of letting romance get in the way of being well matched. Most of the reasons I see for people not wanting to get married (aside from political reasons) have to do with an asshole or bizarre expectations being involved, not that they found the practice of ritual public bonding to be at fault.

I understand political reasons.

But really, it's your marriage. You can make it into any form you want.

It can be open or group or monogamous or living together or living in different suites in the same house or across town or in a different country. You can have kids, no kids, fur babies or foster. Have separate vacations, travel together as a way to live and be nomads. Have a marriage be polyandrous (many husbands). Be circus performers together.

Marriage is really individual. I'm not going to be living with someone. And although I want to take some of my vacations with them, there will be long weekends I take on my own. My space is *mine* and their space is theirs and I would love to be an adored guest in their space and them an adored guest in mine. I lived in a group vegan house with 7 other queers and genderqueers who were mostly poly when my exwife and I were first married.
Just make it up as you go along. Fuck convention.

[Stone-Butch]

I have never been married but after 10 yrs with my ex we had a union. No laws involved, just wanted to commit to each other. After 22 yrs I was committed to work and earn good money and she was lonely and fed up. I left her the house (not sell it to her), she got the trailer, the kids (two dogs and a cat) and all the furniture. These things mean nothing when your life falls apart, not to me anyway. Marriage? She would have to be super special and only after being together at least 5 yrs to even think about it.

[MsTinkerbelly]

My kasey and I were together for 2 months before she asked me to marry her...we were engaged on Christmas Eve 2002.

We had a Domestic partnership, as that was all that was available to us at the time...and I have to say we had our ups and downs (and even a brief break-up), but we have worked hard to make a very happy life together. We were married in July 2008 during the "summer of love", when marriage was legal for a short time here in California.

My Grandparents knew each other around 6 weeks before they married, had 5 children, and were married for 60 years when he passed away. I have friends that are a same-sex couple, have been together 22 years, will NOT get married, and have a committed relationship that is a joy to watch.

Married, unmarried, know you 12 years, met you two days ago....the only common thing that successful couples have, is the stubborn determination to stick it out no matter what.

Some people need the paper, but a lot of people don't. Whatever makes everyone happy. (f)

[JDeere]

Probably no, I have come to the conclusion that I don't want to be married.

I come from a long line of bad relationships and the family curse has hit me already.

[kittygrrl]

yes, (someday)

[job]

Nope. I don't like traditions or ceremonies.
They make me nervous. Even other people's weddings creep me out. 😧 😁

[imperfect_cupcake]

Not a huge fan of traditional weddings. Or religious ones.

But small civic weddings with people dressed in whatever the hell they want with a party after? Fab.
I was still terrified at mine because I hate public speaking. But the party was great :D three DJs from great clubs, people dressed up as goth faeries and other fun costumes with a home made buffet in a friends 17th century house. Nothing formal. Just fun.

Not a traditionalist. So we didn't have a traditional wedding. Amsterdam in the snow was fantastic.

[Rockinonahigh]

Burned twice, ten times shy. Once I though I would change my mind when I met someone who I really thought after all these years, ended up she was hooking up with someone I knew out of the blue.

[homoe]

I really don't see it in my future! I'm not opposed to it but the longer I'm alone the more I become set in my ways! I doubt at this stage I'd have the ability to compromise, and relationships take a lot of compromising as most of us know!

[Jane Bond]

Marriage? Is it for me? I would say YES. I want to be married to the love of my life. Right now, I'm single, I just haven't met the right woman YET.
Maybe one day I will find the Right woman for me.
Get a prenup, and best wishes.

[MsTinkerbelly]

I'm curious about something....

Of the 18 people who said in the poll that they had an alternate joining, will any of you now be getting married as it is legal everywhere here in the States?

Has anyone that said no they never would, gotten married since?

If you were married at the time of the poll, have you since divorced?

One of the arguments always used against us to deny equal marriage, was that we jumped from relationship to relationship, and didn't want/need marriage...have you found yourselves taking relationships more seriously since marriage equality passed?

[Tuff Stuff]

Shit,i'm thinking too fucking hard right now...let me sleep on it!

Fuck,I really need it...SLEEP!,I SAID SLEEP!!!

[JDeere]

I'm curious about something....

Of the 18 people who said in the poll that they had an alternate joining, will any of you now be getting married as it is legal everywhere here in the States?

Has anyone that said no they never would, gotten married since?

If you were married at the time of the poll, have you since divorced?

One of the arguments always used against us to deny equal marriage, was that we jumped from relationship to relationship, and didn't want/need marriage...have you found yourselves taking relationships more seriously since marriage equality passed?

Interesting questions, I hope someone steps up and answers!

[imperfect_cupcake]

Me. I said I would NEVER get married. I didn't see the point of it. I said that right from the age of 14, up until I was 40. I didn't know that one day I would be in the UK getting married to a dutch woman in Amsterdam. Try jumping through the paperwork for that. It took us one and half years of solid admin chasing to be able to get the paperwork done for it. The dutch are some of the most officious people on the planet and they want 16 types of proof for everything signed and stamped in five copies from the highest government official possible. Canada doesn't do that kind of thing. They are more shrug your shoulders and say sure, whatever. Try getting those two systems to talk to each other.

But after I got married I totally "got" it. It's not two people living some prescribed life as other think they should, adhering to rules set out for them. It's not chaining yourself to something.

I didn't marry inks because it was expected of me as a normative. If fact, most of my friends "don't belive in marriage" and therefore didn't want to come. I had three friends at my wedding. That's it. No family. They couldn't afford to get there.

The dutch were great though. They helped me celebrate with no preconceived ideas about how inks and should do anything. I realised that married, my marriage, was up to ME to define. To have in any bloody way I and my partner fucking felt like.

Maybe it's because I've studied anthropology so I understand that marraige has meant vastly different things to different groups of people. People always think marriage is actually the way the gentry in Western Europe did it, the values and such around it. Poor people didn't get married that way. They just said "you wanna be my wife?" She said "yes" and that was it, you were married. And you *could* get a divorce. But the gentry couldnt. Rich people married for business transactions. So it was a contract you couldn't get out of. It wasn't about love. It was about money.

I've studied the history of Western European marriage as well. When it all started, in the UK anyway, round the 1600s. The actual ceremony I mean. It's because of the fear of catholosim and a way for the churches to make a bit of dosh.

Anyway, people have been changing and redefining marriage for thousands of years. So I get to make the rules for my own relationship.

So we did. We had our own agreements, our own ceremony and our own desires of what kind of life each of us wanted.

I didn't understand that you could have that kind of independence in marraige as long as that's what you both wanted. It's finding someone that wants the same thing. And that *is* the whole point of any commitment, regardless of civil marraige or not.

When my mom got partnered again, domestic partnership from living together for two years, he and she both went to lawyers and drew up documents that kept absolutely everything seperate. My step dad was never a dad to me, more like an uncle. Mom was the boss of her home. He was the boss of his. He never interfered with her decisions around money, kids or health. They still had a legal and biding relationship in the eyes of the law. They declared they were living together on their taxes for two years (even though it was just part time).

So no ceremony, but still a legal and binding contract. Dissolvable by declaring separation of one year. Which was no different than my divorce. The only difference was I called my partner "wife" and she called her partner "domestic partner" on forms.

[Jane Bond]

I'm not getting married again. I was married to a man for a very long time and lived with a woman for a number of years and I don't want those kinds of relationships again.

Living on opposite sides of the park, lake or city is what I want, or even different cities would work for me. Spend a few days at her place, a few at mine, then off on our own. I like exclusive and monogamous relationships, but I need my own space and want time on my own.

I always thought a duplex with a shared back yard would be a great solution.

[fever]

I always thought a duplex with a shared back yard would be a great solution.

This is a particularly good idea if your partner doesn't care much for children, and you have 4 grandchildren. Yes, I am about to become a grandma again and loving it!!!!!

[Jesse]

Part of me would like to get married, but the other part of me would like to have a solid relationship with us each having our own home near one another. Seeing as I am single, I don't have to listen to either part! Lol!

[imperfect_cupcake]

Why couldn't you get married *and* live in different places?

[CherryWine]

I honestly don't know if marriage is for me or not. It's never really been a long-term goal. Not that it's out of the question, but I feel like I will know when I meet the right woman. That hasn't happened yet, but I'm still elated by the fact that we can get married in Mississippi or anywhere else in the country should we so choose. :)

[Jesse]

Why couldn't you get married *and* live in different places?

If you are asking me, I could do both. Of course, mine would not be the only vote and I have not met many women who feel this same way. I would not have wanted to do this 10 years ago, but now it seems like the most sane way of being in a relationship, for me at least.

[ProfPacker]

I am beginning to think that having separate places might be the way to go for me. I was in a ltr (civil union) for 34 years. It doesn't hold the same allure for me anymore. I like having my own space and people and interests and then have a companion (with sex) to have special times with.

[Angeltoes]

I don't have any interest in a legal marriage. I don't care if the state approves or not. It's just a bunch of paperwork to me. Commitment ceremonies are nice. If I ever got that serious with someone, then I'd probably want to live together. I need space and alone time too, but it' nice to have your partner in the same house, I guess.

[imperfect_cupcake]

Oh I dunno, I think there are lots of us out there that don't m see sharing household drudgery as something romantic or condusive to having a meaningful connection to others.
Frankly, I find it *hinders* intimacy. And the more I feel like someone's house maid or mother, the less sexual attraction I have for them. I find domesticity *kills* my high sex drive. Dead.
I find that when I actually talk to someone about this, they tend to provisionally agree. And if someone whines that they want a woman to look after them, I am NOT the girl for them anyway. I love spoiling someone. As a divine and wonderful guest. Not as a responsibility and job. And I want the same back. I would be very happy with a marriage that respected my independence. I would fall even more madly and deeply with a person who did.
So I think there with people out there that it could work with. If they are looking to raise a family of kids or dogs or farm animals with, I'm just never going to be that girl anyway. So... Let's go traveling to Sarawak on Borneo instead. You know?

[C0LLETTE]

I've seen a lot of this world but somehow missed Sarawak. You're on.

[BullDog]

When I was younger I was in a 13 year relationship. We never had a commitment ceremony and didn't believe in marriage. I thought it was just something for heterosexuals. The fact that it could be legal someday was such a remote possibility back then, so it just didn't seem like anything I would ever experience in my lifetime.

I certainly have changed my views because now I absolutely want to get married and have that special bond and also the legal protections that go along with it for myself and partner. I absolutely want to live together. Living apart and married would definitely not be something for me. I want to share our daily lives together and I really love doing little things like going to the grocery store together or putting clean sheets on the bed and things like that. I'm not very domestic on my own, but I do enjoy sharing those things with a partner. So yes I absolutely want to get married and share our day to day lives side by side.

[gotoseagrl]

Much like having children, which I don't have, I think marriage is beautifully symbolic of the deep, multifaceted connection a relationship can have. There are many ways you can belong to someone, but I've always viewed marriage as the ultimate intimacy. Something to be earned. So sacred that I've been saving it for the right person, because I've always known it would only happen once in my lifetime.

[Nattih]

Yes it is. I want your regular, average, traditional, get married, live together forever, have kids, get on each others nerves but deal with it, crazy about one another marriage.

Its never something I even considered being "non traditional" about just because I'm gay.

[MsTinkerbelly]

Marriage definitely means different things to different people...I watched my own parents drift slowly apart until there was no longer a core of "we" in my family, and they divorced when I was 15 years old.

I work HARD every single day at making my marriage a living and breathing thing...if someone tells you they don't argue and things are lovely, then when the really horrible things happen, how do they suddenly do hard and crappy? I have seen my Kasey at her rock bottom worst, and she has seen the same in me...but the little things like waiting out in the parking lot at the grocery store so she can load the groceries, or my putting a blanket around her shoulders when she is too busy at work to get one herself...those intimate things we do because we love and support one and other, (for us) those things can't be done from 2 separate houses across town from each other.

When she shows me some stupid FB picture of a hedgehog in a tux while we sit and watch a game show, just to see me smile...I know I wouldn't want to miss any part of her life for a few moments of alone time.

But then, I'm a sap:bunchflowers:

[JDeere]

Never rush into a marriage either. Take your time to get to truly know one another.

As for me, right now, no to marriage. I'm not ready to truly settle down.

[imperfect_cupcake]

When I was younger I was in a 13 year relationship. We never had a commitment ceremony and didn't believe in marriage. I thought it was just something for heterosexuals. The fact that it could be legal someday was such a remote possibility back then, so it just didn't seem like anything I would ever experience in my lifetime.

I certainly have changed my views because now I absolutely want to get married and have that special bond and also the legal protections that go along with it for myself and partner. I absolutely want to live together. Living apart and married would definitely not be something for me. I want to share our daily lives together and I really love doing little things like going to the grocery store together or putting clean sheets on the bed and things like that. I'm not very domestic on my own, but I do enjoy sharing those things with a partner. So yes I absolutely want to get married and share our day to day lives side by side.

See I see someone helping me make a bed thats mine or me helping make theirs as somehow less suffocating than "ours". I love holding hands in the grocery store and doing shopping together. I still have daily life with living apart. Just not EVERY day. I get a couple days off a week. In my own space.
And we don't argue about bills, or chores. Because I'm not doing their laundry or hoovering their carpets. Thats their job. Cleaning.ng out the hallway closet is not quality date time to me. Its not fun.
But cooking together, spending nights on the couch cuddling, grocery shopping together,, doing some of their mending for them while we watch a docu... I get to pick which domestic things to share I stead of having it thrust at me and loaded down with it and not have my own space to retreat to, with my own rules and just my stuff.

I still like doing daily stuff with them. I just don't want it to be every single day. I don't want to have to nag about the garbage or feel resentful I'm cleaning the bathroom again and its thier turn. Or why didn't you pay the phone bill on time?? Those are the things I never ever want to deal with again :)

[imperfect_cupcake]

It's not that I'm not romantic. It's that I get sick and depressed if I don't get my own space and alone time. Some of us don't need it. I do for my mental health. Even from my most favorite people.

[BullDog]

See I see someone helping me make a bed thats mine or me helping make theirs as somehow less suffocating than "ours". I love holding hands in the grocery store and doing shopping together. I still have daily life with living apart. Just not EVERY day. I get a couple days off a week. In my own space.
And we don't argue about bills, or chores. Because I'm not doing their laundry or hoovering their carpets. Thats their job. Cleaning.ng out the hallway closet is not quality date time to me. Its not fun.
But cooking together, spending nights on the couch cuddling, grocery shopping together,, doing some of their mending for them while we watch a docu... I get to pick which domestic things to share I stead of having it thrust at me and loaded down with it and not have my own space to retreat to, with my own rules and just my stuff.

I still like doing daily stuff with them. I just don't want it to be every single day. I don't want to have to nag about the garbage or feel resentful I'm cleaning the bathroom again and its thier turn. Or why didn't you pay the phone bill on time?? Those are the things I never ever want to deal with again :)

Yes, that's cool we just have different preferences. For me, getting groceries for Our house has a different meaning than getting them for my house or hers, but it could still be enjoyable doing it together and it would still be contributing to us as a couple in some way even we didn't live together.

I have spent at least half of my adult life single and do fine on my own and like to have some personal space, but living with a partner in the past has been very special for me. It doesn't feel suffocating to me and I love the routine parts too. Actually I find most people to be draining after a while and can only take them in small doses before I crawl back into my hermit cave, so it definitely needs to be the right person.

I have never been married but definitely want to and my partner feels the same. I wouldn't want to marry someone or have a long term partner where we lived in separate places. It is just not my preference, and thankfully it isn't my partner's preference either. But if you have two people who would prefer to live apart and it works for them then that's great.

[theoddz]

It's not that I'm not romantic. It's that I get sick and depressed if I don't get my own space and alone time. Some of us don't need it. I do for my mental health. Even from my most favorite people.

And here I thought I was the only one like this!!! :twitch:

Is there a name for this thing, perhaps??? :thinking:

Don't worry, CC, you don't bear this burden alone. We shall name it and call it "ours". :winky:

~Theo~ :bouquet:

[Liam]

It's not that I'm not romantic. It's that I get sick and depressed if I don't get my own space and alone time. Some of us don't need it. I do for my mental health. Even from my most favorite people.


And here I thought I was the only one like this!!! :twitch:

Is there a name for this thing, perhaps??? :thinking:

Don't worry, CC, you don't bear this burden alone. We shall name it and call it "ours". :winky:

~Theo~ :bouquet:

I think the name is introvert, which simply means someone who recharges their energy, by being alone.

[gotoseagrl]

I don't think living together and being married means you have to be around your partner 24/7. Personal space and alone time can still be achieved & honored. So can agreeing on what's fair for each person to do for the household. I don't think living apart completely eliminates the "burden" of having to agree on how things are done or having to care about each other's personal needs. You're still sharing your life with someone. And I definitely prefer to do it within the same household where sharing talks, laughs, meals, and reassuring hugs & kisses don't have to be penciled in. Though I wasn't aware that wanting separate arrangements was so popular these days. Interesting ... and it is understandable, especially for those with certain health requirements.

Though living together in marriage should still allow separate hobbies, interests, preferences, going out and times people should be able to be alone and do whatever they want or need. To me, the idea of being married doesn't mean independence or personal space has to fly out the window or that we start becoming suffocated.

On the contrary, it's a union that makes all the time and things shared even more enjoyable & meaningful - such as one place to sleep together, one home crafted together over time and much more. I guess that glass is half full in my eyes. While I can see how sharing the same space can be overwhelming for others, being as close as possible to my partner provides me with a sense of freedom, comfort, peace and extra cushion for the blows that life can bring unexpectedly, especially when you are apart.

[C0LLETTE]

I have a rather undeveloped theory about the advantages of marriage/civil unions/contractual partnerships...I see them as a financial, medical, retirement plan...from the perspective of an "old" woman.

I also accept that there is lots of anecdotal evidence to contradict me and many anomalies.

Nevertheless, here are some random thoughts, in no particular order:

1. "Love/Romance" plays a very small part in my theory. It's actually a very recent concept and amongst the least reliable predictors of success.

2. I understand that unless there is remarkable coincidence or co-suicide, one partner will eventually be left alone. That is a given that you just can't get around.

3. As you age it's really better to have someone there to notice you've fallen and broken your hip than trying to crawl around the kitchen floor looking for your "$25per month emergency call button.

4. Many people, particularly "single" women just won't have the individual resources to avoid a slide in their living conditions as they age.

5.Not too many people are tough enough to get old "alone"

6. Having friends, family, extended family, is wonderful but none of it comes close to having a shared interconnected relationship where multiplatform mutual security is primary.

7. Risk-taking is great for the young where there is plenty of time to correct mistakes. When you're older, you better have a plan and that plan will likely serve you much better if it's a closely shared plan.

8. Sure there are lots of trade-offs but there are no free lunches and I'd still rather share a grocery bill and sit across from my partner having some lunch.

Warning: No rigorous thought went into these opinions.

[gotoseagrl]

I am as introverted as one can be and still need my partner as close as possible, while most other people I do not want close. Maybe "distantly attached" is a way to describe that type of arrangement. Who knows? lol

I think the name is introvert, which simply means someone who recharges their energy, by being alone.

[imperfect_cupcake]

Thanks bulldog, I hear you.

To the other responses - this where I feel like I live in another universe. I have been in seven different long term relationships from the age of 15 until now, at age 46. I have lived with two out of seven as a shared household and one out of shared "her" house because I needed to find a place after I moved, which took a year.

So four out of seven I never lived with someone. And the assumptions I am hearing seem really odd. I didn't have to pencil anyone in. We still had lunches and breakfasts etc together. They would come over on a thurs eve and leave on Monday morning. Or come on a Friday and leave Sunday night and I'd visit them over night on a wed.

Or something like that. They have a drawer in my dresser, some space in the closet, a shelf in the bathroom, one of the night stands, and some of their favourite stuff in the cupboard and the fridge. We shop for the dinners we share together. We have daily relaxed spontaneous free time together. Hang out for three days or four days in a row.

The difference is: my space is *my* space. Their space is *their* space. They are responsible for theirs. I don't look after it. Or their two dogs. We don't discuss if I want dogs or not. They get to make that decision all on their own. If they house is dirty, they clean it, not me. I do the dishes or make the bed with them. I don't scrub their place down. They do that stuff. I'm responsible for my place.

I don't want a house. I want a tiny wee flat in a big urban city. With a little balcony, no yard. They can live wherever best pleases them. And I can visit and stay for a few days a week.

But I share households with flat mates. I don't mind that. Because I look for a flatmate I can live with, who has the same habits as me. Falling in love with someone does not mean they have the same living habits as me. And I

HATE

Not having that easy living situation and arguing about bills, housework, where we live, pets etc... Because that's needless if we have our own space and you get your own rules and stuff and I get my own rules and stuff.

I just don't see the point when I can spend four days a week if I want, at their place and go home where they can't knock on my door and say " babe... Can you walk the dog?" Or "where is the ketchup?" Or "why is there a stain on the counter?"I also know that it's not just for three hours of precious me time, I get three whole days of doing whatever I want and having friends over without asking.

I can't do that when I live with someone. And I need it. I need more than a few hours here and there. Of course we have our own hobbies and friends. But I need to know that I can make decisions about *my* space that are entirely *mine*. As in you don't get a say what colour I paint my walls. Or how many cats I have.

I need it.

I'm actually an extrovert. And I have lived with introverts and yet they still seem to be far more intense and limpet like (lol) about personal space than me. What I find smothering will not be smothering to others. I don't need daily contact with my parter. I just don't. I carry a little part of them inside myself with intense love. I'm also not a word person. I don't need a lot of reassurance. I like contact with lots of people, daily, relaxed, without obligation.

I live in a building with three of my closest friends in other apartments. My job is touching people all day. I have a highly social job and lots of touch. I can crawl into bed and have morning coffee with my neighbour and close friend since I was 15 and is like a cousin. I can couch cuddle my friends watching a movie. I don't get all of those things off *one* person in my life. I can only be in love with one person, but I'm fed by many people in my day. On a daily basis. And I need my down times in my own space or I get sick. Without interruption. Without arguing about the recycling or what not. I want to live in a little place in a city. Not in the burbs or in the country. And I don't see that as a problem if a I stay at theirs sometimes and they stay at mine with a 2 or three day break in between.

I still get grocery shopping with them, and all the other good stuff. But what I also get is being able to say "my house, my decision." About things that are important to me. And being able to leave their place if I want to. And have my best mate over at 10pm (if my partner isn't staying over that night) after she went to the pub without asking if that's ok.

I love them, I want to be with them, but I don't need us to be roommate compatible.

[Nattih]

I think its just personality differences, which is great. Variety is the spice of life.

I am a major introvert, but I enjoy being in the company of those that I like and love. I can just sit quietly and enjoy their company. I'm happy to participate in the give and take that will accompany integrating my partner into my living space for good. Its something I feel I need for a complete relationship. I admire those who do not need that, though.

[BullDog]

Yes, variety is good. It would drive me crazy going back and forth between two different places as a long-term proposition. When first getting to know someone while dating, then yes it would be fine. But no I wouldn't want to do that with someone I was married to or had a long term commitment with. I would never know whether I was coming or going. Yes, I could have a toothbrush at two places and things like that, but I like being grounded to one spot.

I don't need to feel like a living space is all mine. I get a lot more satisfaction in sharing it with a partner, and those that I have lived with in the past there hasn't been a lot of arguing- about household things or anything else for that matter. Well 1 out of 3 there was some fighting, but I should have never lived with her to begin with (not anyone from this site). My partner would have to be someone I was compatible living with, which yeah would rule out a lot of women I could potentially be attracted to in other ways, but fortunately that is not something I have to worry about.

I also feel I can still have plenty of independence, enjoy my own interests, have friends, and still live with my partner and spend lots of time with her. That works for me.

[Angeltoes]

I just think that people who haven't been married before sometimes underestimate the legal repercussions that can happen if by chance it doesn't work out. Marriage is something that's easy to get into and can be incredibly difficult to get out of. That's not always true, but if your ex-partner is inclined they can make your life a living hell.

[gotoseagrl]

I think the people who haven't been married, especially after so long, have waited for a reason and are well aware of the risks. On the other hand, people who jump into marriage might be the ones underestimating the consequences, or ignoring them. Situations gone wrong is why people should be careful who they choose to go all that way with. I think it's as simple as that, being careful.

[JDeere]

I just think that people who haven't been married before sometimes underestimate the legal repercussions that can happen if by chance it doesn't work out. Marriage is something that's easy to get into and can be incredibly difficult to get out of. That's not always true, but if your ex-partner is inclined they can make your life a living hell.

This is one of the exact reasons I won't get married, if it breaks up for some reason you have to get an attorney, go through all the crap, pay a ton of money, etc. So therefore, no marriage for me, I ain't paying for some divorce just because my partner gets pissed off over something petty and decides its over, instead of working it out, which I see ALOT of married couples not do.

[Nattih]

I'm happy it's hard to get out of and that there are major repercussions. To me that's one of the excellent points of it all.

[imperfect_cupcake]

My divorce was very clean, cost very little (about 300 euros, as much as the wedding licence) and easy with one solicitor between us. We didn't fight. There was no point. I was due seven years of alimony due to the circumstances and what my ex did. I refused it. I can make my own money.

I know if three people who moved in with their beloved but not married - they didn't believe in it. Only to have their partners clean out the account and do a midnight move. Or steal very valuable items and move fuck off with a close mate.

You don't need to be married to have someone wreck your life. It's very easy to have someone remove everything from your home while you are at work if you have a key.

In BC, if you live with someone two years less one day, they are entitled to everything a spouse would be entitled to in a divorce or death. The civil ceremony doesn't give you more rights or obligations.

You move in with someone for two years? You are as legally responsible as if you were married.

[C0LLETTE]

It's a business deal so write up a good contract ( legally binding co-habitation agreement ), read the fine print, make sure the children like you more.

[JDeere]

My divorce was very clean, cost very little (about 300 euros, as much as the wedding licence) and easy with one solicitor between us. We didn't fight. There was no point. I was due seven years of alimony due to the circumstances and what my ex did. I refused it. I can make my own money.

I know if three people who moved in with their beloved but not married - they didn't believe in it. Only to have their partners clean out the account and do a midnight move. Or steal very valuable items and move fuck off with a close mate.

You don't need to be married to have someone wreck your life. It's very easy to have someone remove everything from your home while you are at work if you have a key.

In BC, if you live with someone two years less one day, they are entitled to everything a spouse would be entitled to in a divorce or death. The civil ceremony doesn't give you more rights or obligations.

You move in with someone for two years? You are as legally responsible as if you were married.

Its different in the states. Divorces are not generally as cheap as yours and can carry on for years.

[JDeere]

It's a business deal so write up a good contract ( legally binding co-habitation agreement ), read the fine print, make sure the children like you more.

Lol, you crack me up but this sounds wonderful. Especially the children liking you more.:seeingstars:

[Angeltoes]

I wasn't only thinking in terms of money, but there's that too. Consider that divorce can impact your social security benefits and you can be required to continue paying on bills you never asked for. Sometimes a spouse can lay claim to things that have sentimental value to you even if they have no real monetary value.

I'm not totally down on marriage. It's just that, at this stage, I'm interested in (someday) finding the right relationship. I don't even have that part figured out. I have been married and in a few committed relationships, but not one of those relationships was worthy of the vows. I don't believe you can get married and then force things to work out. Couples shouldn't ignore the little problems that arise now and then, because once you're married they may turn into big problems. You need to have enough compatibility to carry you through a lifetime and that's not easy to see when you're in the middle of a relationship. I agree with the comment above about taking your time. Marriage works for some people. It's just not a goal for me. I just want someone to cuddle up and watch Netflix with. I'd rather spend the money on a vacation than a wedding.

[DapperButch]

Its different in the states. Divorces are not generally as cheap as yours and can carry on for years.

To be fair, it really depends on the people involved. I know of people who did it by just filing papers online for a few hundred dollars. They went their separate ways cleanly the way ICC did.

Others, who even had money, child support, and property involved may have used lawyers, but still did it quick and easy. A meeting or two between their lawyers and that was it. People have the option to make their own agreement, or simply follow the monetary "formula" (alimony, child support, etc), stated by the State that you live in (for my state you can find it on our government web site).

I don't profess to know how different it is state to state and maybe it is a longer process in some states (including yours, JDeere), but I really think it is only if people don't agree. Yes, it CAN carry on for years with lots and lots of heartbreak, but it depends on the people and if they do not want to follow what your state suggests or can't come up with their own agreement of terms.

ICC, that is scary as hell that people just co-habitating can have legally binding issues. No wonder living with someone is not an option for you! Hell!

(Also, ICC, how about you give us initials to use for your name? I don't know what you like and I still want to call you HB!)

[MsTinkerbelly]

I was divorced from my daughter's father after 10 years of marriage, 8 living together and 2 more so he could claim 1/2 my social security should he not remarry. In California, if there are children involved you have to go to a class on the effect your divorce will have on the family...I picked him up and we went together. We both had Lawyers do our paperwork, because we wanted it done right...neither one of us asked for spousal support, and I refused child support with the exception of he kept her on his medical insurance until she was 15 and he could no longer work.

NEVER in the time we have been apart did I ever say one negative word about her father, and to his credit I never heard anything bad from him...heck, I even used to send money with her for food and activities when she spent her visitation time with him. I still have a deep respect and love for the man who fathered my child, but he wasn't female and I couldn't live that lie any longer.

Even with all of this sunshine and roses, I grieved the end of a marriage I swore I would be in until death do us part. Marriage is not a decision to be made lightly, and if it takes years to make sure you are doing the right thing, then take years...no judging here.

[Tuff Stuff]

I believe we were ready..so we did it.Nothing changes,we both know our boundaries...it's just that we fucking did it!.The thing is "I" "Me" "Mine" is now "We" "Us" "Ours"...yep,nothing changed.*snort*

[imperfect_cupcake]

To be fair, it really depends on the people involved. I know of people who did it by just filing papers online for a few hundred dollars. They went their separate ways cleanly the way ICC did.

Others, who even had money, child support, and property involved may have used lawyers, but still did it quick and easy. A meeting or two between their lawyers and that was it. People have the option to make their own agreement, or simply follow the monetary "formula" (alimony, child support, etc), stated by the State that you live in (for my state you can find it on our government web site).

I don't profess to know how different it is state to state and maybe it is a longer process in some states (including yours, JDeere), but I really think it is only if people don't agree. Yes, it CAN carry on for years with lots and lots of heartbreak, but it depends on the people and if they do not want to follow what your state suggests or can't come up with their own agreement of terms.

ICC, that is scary as hell that people just co-habitating can have legally binding issues. No wonder living with someone is not an option for you! Hell!

(Also, ICC, how about you give us initials to use for your name? I don't know what you like and I still want to call you HB!)

Imp is fine. Or IC. Or ICC. Or titsalina. Lol I don't care, I know who you are referring to.

And yes, I could have made our divorce last years. That was my point. So thanks. You can be quick and easy or it can be costly, hurtful (more hurtful than it already is. I didn't believe in divorce for myself so it felt like getting a layer of skin peeled off. I'm of the same opinion as Tinkerbelly). And it depends on if the people involved are angry, self-righteous, other blaming, vindictive arses. Yes, my exwife did something cruel and broke her promises. But she also wasn't mentally healthy and I believed her decisions were made in a depressive spiral. Hurting her more wouldn't have "taught" her anything. She is her own chaos, her own storm. And I certainly wasn't innocent. I wasn't peaches and cream to live with.


And I think the legally binding thing with cohabitation is good. So many people don't believe in civil marriage but shack up and have kids and spend money together on places, it's the easiest way to make it fair. A long time ago, back in the 1500s, in many places in Europe, that's how marriage worked anyway. You said "you wanna be my wife?" They said "yup" and they moved in. No ceremony needed. That was for the farmers and land workers and lower guilds. If you had money/title, then the person got chosen for you and there were witnesses and probably a church person there.

Modern marriage didn't happen till mid 16th century. When Henry had his fit, along wth John Calvin and Luther and invented prodestantism and the whole anti Catholic thing started.

Then *everyone* had to have a ceremony, it had to be by the prodistant church or a church official, and you had to pay for it. So prodestant ministers that liked a bit of tipple married poor people in pubs for much less money and still signed the paper for you.

Anyway. Yeah, personally think those that live together, have kids and make investments together should be recognized equal to married and with equal obligations. Seen too many of my friends get screwed with long term cohabitation and no rights, someone just empties the house and fucks off and leaves a kid. Or kicks them out. They aren't married. You paid into their mortgage for six years.

I think it's a good idea.

When my mom had a domestic partnership through cohabitation, they both drew up legal documents stating neither one had rights to the others house or accounts - so basically a cohabitation prenup. Which was very good idea because when he died, his kids wanted half my mom's house as well as his.

So. It's always good to put it on paper. Your partner may not be an arse, but if there is no will , maybe their kin are.

[DapperButch]

I think titsalina fits you perfectly, so I will go with that one (speaking of tits....well, your tits, specifically... we need them back in the photo gallery. Please and thank you.).

I agree that if people live together for a long period of time, and of course if they combine accounts, there should be a legal piece to the breakup.

However, I have a problem with the two year mark. That's nutso. I say 5 years for your Canadian approach.

I think that people need to protect themselves when it comes to co-habitating, like your mother did. I know that the plan for myself and the lovely TF was to at some point after she moved in to get the house appraised. Then, at the time of break up/purchase of a home together, we would do another apraisal. At that point she would get half the equity that had grown over the time we lived in my house together.

If you don't do something like that the person moving into the other person's home gets screwed if there is a break up. If they weren't with you, they would have been building equity in their own home instead of living with your stupid ass for years. :D

[MsTinkerbelly]

I believe we were ready..so we did it.Nothing changes,we both know our boundaries...it's just that we fucking did it!.The thing is "I" "Me" "Mine" is now "We" "Us" "Ours"...yep,nothing changed.*snort*

Congratulations on your marriage! May you always have enough of everything to make living and loving together worthwhile.

[imperfect_cupcake]

I think titsalina fits you perfectly, so I will go with that one (speaking of tits....well, your tits, specifically... we need them back in the photo gallery. Please and thank you.)
Heh. I would but my face is attached to them!

I agree that if people live together for a long period of time, and of course if they combine accounts, there should be a legal piece to the breakup.

However, I have a problem with the two year mark. That's nutso. I say 5 years for your Canadian approach.

I think that people need to protect themselves when it comes to co-habitating, like your mother did. I know that the plan for myself and the lovely TF was to at some point after she moved in to get the house appraised. Then, at the time of break up/purchase of a home together, we would do another apraisal. At that point she would get half the equity that had grown over the time we lived in my house together.

If you don't do something like that the person moving into the other person's home gets screwed if there is a break up. If they weren't with you, they would have been building equity in their own home instead of living with your stupid ass for years. :D

I think I'd put it at 3 years. Mainly because heterosexual couples tend to have kids much faster than we do. Our five is more like their 2.5 or less. Much less.
And when kids come into it, game change. I think the 2 year decision was based around the average amount of time kids entered the picture from first moving together. I could be wrong but I thought I read that somewhere.

Anyway first marriages/long term cohabitations tend to fail at the 5-6 year mark (that I read) so I'd put the starter mark at three, unless a child is registered to the couple at any point after cohabitation/domestic partnership starts.

[JDeere]

I've heard that in some states if you are living with someone for over a year and claim them as your spouse, you are common law married.

I have never understood this, why not just get married but I can see how some folks can feel that an actual marriage on paper can affect things, it's one thing calling them your spouse and another being married by law.

< insert strange look on face here

[MsTinkerbelly]

I've heard that in some states if you are living with someone for over a year and claim them as your spouse, you are common law married.

I have never understood this, why not just get married but I can see how some folks can feel that an actual marriage on paper can affect things, it's one thing calling them your spouse and another being married by law.

< insert strange look on face here

There are 16 states that create common law marriage in some form or another. Some only recognize those from before certain dates (meaning you may no longer create one) and New Hampshire, which only recognizes them for inheritance purposes.

You must present yourselves as married to the community(I'm John and this is my wife Mary) pay joint taxes and get a legal divorce should you split. It is a myth that it automatically happens just by living together, but in those states you should have something signed and notarized that you are living together as two free and independent people (should you not want a common law marriage) if you don't want any issues down the road.

[JDeere]

There are 16 states that create common law marriage in some form or another. Some only recognize those from before certain dates (meaning you may no longer create one) and New Hampshire, which only recognizes them for inheritance purposes.

You must present yourselves as married to the community(I'm John and this is my wife Mary) pay joint taxes and get a legal divorce should you split. It is a myth that it automatically happens just by living together, but in those states you should have something signed and notarized that you are living together as two free and independent people (should you not want a common law marriage) if you don't want any issues down the road.

That's what I thought! All I've ever heard was about presenting to others as spouses deal.