"She Makes Fitness Look Lke Fashion"

[Ginger]

I read this in the Times this morning and was just wondering what people thought. It's a profile of a butch executive for Equinox.


http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/30/fashion/bianca-kosoy-adds-her-creative-touch-to-equinox-up-close.html

[girl_dee]

very interesting article!

will come back when i have a moment to read it properly.

[Kobi]

It made me twitch and not in a good way.

I can get passed the stereotypical, bad ass, butch lesbian with her irrevelant attitude, tattoos, male attire, alcohol/party hearty mentality, who bears an uncanny resemblence to KD Lang. I can see a cult icon in the making here.

What I can not get passed is a woman promoting this kind of exploitative advertising of other women:

Much of the credit goes to Ms. Kosoy, who leads a team of 10 designers in Equinox’s headquarters in the Flatiron district, where they create a brand image that marries sex and sweat, wellness and bad behavior. “It’s not fitness,” the tagline reads, “it’s life.”

To that end, she has hired provocative photographers like Terry Richardson to shoot Equinox’s ad campaigns. The most recent campaign features a young blonde in a schoolgirl uniform (shirt, tie, knee socks, yes; skirt, no) pinned under a muscular young man in nothing but boxers, glasses and leather loafers. Judging from the Chesterfield sofa and leather-bound volumes, they are in some sort of library. “Brainpower by Equinox,” the tagline reads.


To me, it is an example of internalized sexism. Just as offensive and derogatory to women as if it was done by a male.

I'm disappointed.

[Ginger]

It made me twitch and not in a good way.

I can get passed the stereotypical, bad ass, butch lesbian with her irrevelant attitude, tattoos, male attire, alcohol/party hearty mentality, who bears an uncanny resemblence to KD Lang. I can see a cult icon in the making here.

What I can not get passed is a woman promoting this kind of exploitative advertising of other women:

Much of the credit goes to Ms. Kosoy, who leads a team of 10 designers in Equinox’s headquarters in the Flatiron district, where they create a brand image that marries sex and sweat, wellness and bad behavior. “It’s not fitness,” the tagline reads, “it’s life.”

To that end, she has hired provocative photographers like Terry Richardson to shoot Equinox’s ad campaigns. The most recent campaign features a young blonde in a schoolgirl uniform (shirt, tie, knee socks, yes; skirt, no) pinned under a muscular young man in nothing but boxers, glasses and leather loafers. Judging from the Chesterfield sofa and leather-bound volumes, they are in some sort of library. “Brainpower by Equinox,” the tagline reads.


To me, it is an example of internalized sexism. Just as offensive and derogatory to women as if it was done by a male.

I'm disappointed.




I had the same reaction. I used to buy the "it's different when a butch does it" cultural justification for behavior that demeans women, but I'm over that. I wouldn't trust this person.

[princessbelle]

She may be laughing all the way to the bank, but, it appears she is being used as nothing more than a pawn, an advertising "in your face" circus act to draw attention.

I think it's actually kinda sad really.

[Daywalker]

This one makes me sick:


2WD3QrhqyY0


Target Audience?
:|

:daywalker:

[BullDog]

She does look a lot like KD Lang. Other than that she just seems gross. To say I am a pig and ogle after women is just as sexist as any man doing it.

[Ginger]

This one makes me sick:


2WD3QrhqyY0


Target Audience?
:|

:daywalker:


I think the subtext is about "meat."

And it promotes the idea that the purpose of women getting hot for each other is to arouse men.

I still feel icky, when I get the "can I watch?" response, when straight men learn I'm gay.

The culture of male role models supporting this ad is abundant.

I love butches who look beyond that, and create something that is truly their own.

Example: Butch "A" made a demeaning blond joke around me at the Center in NYC once, and Butch "B" said to her, That's not okay.

I didn't need rescuing, but it felt good to have support.

Butch "B" wasn't emulating a stereotype. Butch "B" got my attention.

[CherylNYC]

Wow. Where to begin? She's certainly an asshole, and she probably has a drinking problem. She obviously gets plenty of positive reinforcement for her irritating behaviours, so she has no reason to behave differently. I'm actually grateful for the photo so I won't even bother oggling her if/when I see her around town.

I oggle women. ALL the time. I oggle beautiful/handsome women of every age, size, race, and gender presentation. It's partly because I'm a sculptor, but it's mostly for the same reasons that the abovementioned asshole oggles them. I love to look at women. ESPECIALLY handsome butch women. I will oggle them more blatantly than I oggle feminine women because that's where the heat is for me. Why is that bad?

[Ginger]

Wow. Where to begin? She's certainly an asshole, and she probably has a drinking problem. She obviously gets plenty of positive reinforcement for her irritating behaviours, so she has no reason to behave differently. I'm actually grateful for the photo so I won't even bother oggling her if/when I see her around town.

I oggle women. ALL the time. I oggle beautiful/handsome women of every age, size, race, and gender presentation. It's partly because I'm a sculptor, but it's mostly for the same reasons that the abovementioned asshole oggles them. I love to look at women. ESPECIALLY handsome butch women. I will oggle them more blatantly than I oggle feminine women because that's where the heat is for me. Why is that bad?


I'm really glad you responded, Cheryl, I always appreciate your honesty and smarts.

I've been thinking about that second part, too. The "ogle" part. I "ogle" too, in my way. But something about bragging to an observer, "I'm a pig," after ogling, seems, I don't know. Different. But different is okay. I have to think about this and I have to go out to dinner now. I will check back later!!

[BullDog]

She's ogling after a woman who is a waitress (working at her job) who is dressed in a certain way which seems to be for the entertainment of the clientele, then tops it off by saying I'm a pig. To me that's gross.

[Ginger]

She's ogling after a woman who is a waitress (working at her job) who is dressed in a certain way which seems to be for the entertainment of the clientele, then tops it off by saying I'm a pig. To me that's gross.

yeah, what Bulldog said.

It's the power thing, the aping of a straight male who wants to make sure his buddies knows he has a penis and knows where to insert it.

I work in a sexist environment the likes of which I haven't had to deal with in a long long time. I worked in literacy and social justice settings for 15 years but now I'm in it for the nice (-ish) salary and the pension and perks and pleasant easy fun work. But it's a trade off. I am on guard an awful lot and while I am admired and liked, I also have to protect myself.

Don't want to go into specifics, not sure why I went there.

[Gráinne]

To me, there's a way to acknowledge that a woman is beautiful or handsome in a way that is safe and affirming. We do it all the time on this forum, and it feels good to the recipient to be appreciated. It's consenting, and it's welcomed. Gads, is it welcome!

But then there's leering, blatantly sexual. Don't get me wrong, in some contexts (such as with your partner and when it's consensual and even mutual), that's great! I've been there ;). This, however, was just objectifying.

There's nothing about being a lesbian that makes you automatically woman-loving and appreciating. That incident with the waitress was just Porky's with a vagina.

[Novelafemme]

Gross.

Anyone who refers to themselves as a "pig" gets no attention in my world.

[SimpleAlaskanBoy]

She's a frat boy butch, just with a better bank account than say, most of the ones I know but less of the manners.

~SAB

[Martina]

I didn't read the article till after I read all your comments, which were fun to read.

So I reacted differently. She didn't seem so bad. Sort of a typical creative marketing type. There's some there there, and the rest is her responding to the whatever part of society she takes the pulse of.

The ad is unethical if it does promote body dysmorphia. It makes sense that it would. Wouldn't that cause people to run to a gym? And the sex scene is something that would appeal to a lot of young women and gay men, I imagine, in the 50 Shades of Gray soft-core sense. I haven't seen it, but I "get" it. People want to not feel bad about their bodies, and a lot of them want a hot boy to pin them to the ground. AND they think of themselves as smart and bookish or whatever. Not deep. Contrived even though I bet it works.

That she thinks she is succeeding on her own terms is sort of silly. But that would be true of thousands of creative types selling themselves to corporations.

Doesn't she seem like a character in a lesbian romance novel?

[Ginger]

To me, there's a way to acknowledge that a woman is beautiful or handsome in a way that is safe and affirming. We do it all the time on this forum, and it feels good to the recipient to be appreciated. It's consenting, and it's welcomed. Gads, is it welcome!

But then there's leering, blatantly sexual. Don't get me wrong, in some contexts (such as with your partner and when it's consensual and even mutual), that's great! I've been there ;). This, however, was just objectifying.

There's nothing about being a lesbian that makes you automatically woman-loving and appreciating. That incident with the waitress was just Porky's with a vagina.


LOL "Porky's with a vagina"!

[tantalizingfemme]

She's ogling after a woman who is a waitress (working at her job) who is dressed in a certain way which seems to be for the entertainment of the clientele, then tops it off by saying I'm a pig. To me that's gross.

This is after she talks about the new girl she is madly in love with..... awesome.

[Ginger]

This is after she talks about the new girl she is madly in love with..... awesome.


LOL! Lucky gal...

[aishah]

on the one hand, i do think the ads and the kinds of things people are mentioning from the article are pretty upsetting in terms of the glorified sexism, good old boy behavior, etc.

on the other hand...i think it could be more complex than this for a few reasons that are running through my head and i'm having a hard time forming them into a coherent whole so i'll just list them -
there are so few representations of butch women in high powered positions that i think maybe there's a sense of wanting/expectation that people would act in ways that are less offensive.
there is a streak of overtly lewd/misogynistic behavior that runs through our communities and is often glorified.
this woman is probably working among straight men who glorify sexism and misogyny. i've never worked in an upscale corporate environment but my impression is that this is more or less the norm, particularly in male-driven industries.
because of the dynamics of oppression in our society, i'm guessing she might have to work to present a certain image in order to keep her job and career. i'm not saying that makes it right, and we always have choices about how we act within those confines, but that does make it more understandable (to me at least).
the news publishes the most sensational and extreme aspects of every story. it's possible this woman does a lot of awesome stuff that never made it to print because the news doesn't believe in printing a lot of awesome, especially about our communities. while i think the stuff in the article is pretty gross and offensive, i also wonder what we would see if her life wasn't distilled down to this one anecdote.

i'm all for calling out offensive shit. i prefer to do it to people's faces but i don't think it always has to be that way. i think in some ways public figures open themselves up to criticism from all corners, but usually with other situations (like with politicians who absolutely deserve to be called out and criticized), we at least have a bigger picture or more access to information about who they are, what their actions are, and how they live. here we have a pretty small amount of information, probably with a bias (by the reporter) towards confirming certain stereotypes and making things more sensational and sexy, so i guess that makes me want to at least question things a bit before jumping to conclusions.

(and by conclusions i mean - yes, i can conclude that if this is an accurate representation of one incident, i'm pretty grossed out and offended. but i could not even begin to speculate that she has a drinking problem or is really a terrible person or any of that.)

[Kobi]

I didn't read the article till after I read all your comments, which were fun to read.

So I reacted differently. She didn't seem so bad. Sort of a typical creative marketing type. There's some there there, and the rest is her responding to the whatever part of society she takes the pulse of.

The ad is unethical if it does promote body dysmorphia. It makes sense that it would. Wouldn't that cause people to run to a gym? And the sex scene is something that would appeal to a lot of young women and gay men, I imagine, in the 50 Shades of Gray soft-core sense. I haven't seen it, but I "get" it. People want to not feel bad about their bodies, and a lot of them want a hot boy to pin them to the ground. AND they think of themselves as smart and bookish or whatever. Not deep. Contrived even though I bet it works.

That she thinks she is succeeding on her own terms is sort of silly. But that would be true of thousands of creative types selling themselves to corporations.

Doesn't she seem like a character in a lesbian romance novel?


Thank you for posting this.

I suspect there are a number of different criteria we use when we are evaluating something and what we choose to focus on, at any different time, varies.

For example, I could wonder why the author of this article choose to present Ms. Kosoy in the manner in which she did. After all, what the author chooses to focus on, slants the gist of what I am seeing.

The author choose to focus on certain things about her manner of dress, her demeanor, her lifestyle, and not as much on her job or philosophy behind it in anything but was, to me, a superficial way.

So what was the point of the article? Was it about Ms. Kosoy being a different breed of executive because she is a butch woman with an unapologetic edge? Was it about her as a persona or her as a businesswoman? Was it about the business and its success?

Its pretty clear that companies need to find and present an image, even in their personnel, that will sell a product. Sex sells. Image sells. Selling sex and images sells. I dont find anything out of the ordinary in what Ms. Kosoy is doing within the context of being a businesswoman doing her job using what has proven to work.

As I had been dealing with some very visible, to me, examples of sexism within our community lately, that was the part I choose to focus on.

I was surprised there wasnt more of a different reaction. The reason I say this is that in a lot of ways, Ms Kosoy was presented in such a way that I could actually feel her swagger. Her look, her demeanor is something many in our community find sexually attractive/appealing and what fantasies are made from.

Take the ad image they presented of a young blonde in a schoolgirl uniform
(shirt, tie, knee socks, yes; skirt, no) pinned under a muscular young man in nothing but boxers, glasses and leather loafers. Personally, I always object to sexualized schoolgirl images because of the sex with underaged connotations.

But, if the ad replaced the muscular young man with a muscular butch, transman, transgendered person in nothing but boxers, glasses, and leather loafers pinning someone to the ground would it feel different? Can one envision fantasies of a woman enjoying be pinned by a hot hunk whether they be hetero or queer?

I bring this up cuz sexism and feminism is not always clear cut or easy to navigate. What might be obvious and accepted on a macro scale is not quite as obvious and accepted on a micro scale.

By that I mean, many people can relate to violence against women whether it be rape or other forms of domestic violence. Many can relate to sexual harrassment, job discrimination, glass ceilings, wage discrimination, the poverty of single mothers etc.

Yet, on a micro scale, especially when hormones, mating rituals, and sexual prolicivities are involved, things get murky. What might appear as sexist or oppressive to one may be the stuff that makes fantasies and adventures for another. Context and attitude can make it a little easier but even that can be debated.

Sometimes I wonder if this murkiness is a deliberate design of the theoretical patriarchial construct or an unintended but very useful consequence.

Sometimes, I wish I could just shut my brain off for a little while.

[Talon]

I didn't read the article till after I read all your comments, which were fun to read.

So I reacted differently. She didn't seem so bad. Sort of a typical creative marketing type. There's some there there, and the rest is her responding to the whatever part of society she takes the pulse of.

The ad is unethical if it does promote body dysmorphia. It makes sense that it would. Wouldn't that cause people to run to a gym? And the sex scene is something that would appeal to a lot of young women and gay men, I imagine, in the 50 Shades of Gray soft-core sense. I haven't seen it, but I "get" it. People want to not feel bad about their bodies, and a lot of them want a hot boy to pin them to the ground. AND they think of themselves as smart and bookish or whatever. Not deep. Contrived even though I bet it works.

That she thinks she is succeeding on her own terms is sort of silly. But that would be true of thousands of creative types selling themselves to corporations.

Doesn't she seem like a character in a lesbian romance novel?

>This is how it struck me, also.
I didn't feel offended, personally. She just comes across as trying way too hard and seems quite transparent because of that.

[Daktari]

Yer judging a person on the strength of a 'news'paper article? :|

[Talon]

Yer judging a person on the strength of a 'news'paper article? :|


*chuckle*

Touche..Daktari.

[Daktari]

uh oh doubling up.

[Daktari]

*chuckle*

Touche..Daktari.

It's a hard job, but someone's gotta do it! :hamactor: