The Debates

[Martina]

The Presidential and VP Debates.

Well, number one was a bust for Obama. Romney was on fire and ignored the ancient Jim Lehrer, who seemed only to monitor President Obama's time.

But I am shocked that Obama was so poorly prepared. God, Mitt was good. Scary.

[txdoc]

The Presidential and VP Debates.

Well, number one was a bust for Obama. Romney was on fire and ignored the ancient Jim Lehrer, who seemed only to monitor President Obama's time.

But I am shocked that Obama was so poorly prepared. God, Mitt was good. Scary.

Obama did seem shaken...

[Corkey]

Obama blew it, Leiher needs to retire.
The Pres needs to stalk the MSNBC blogs for a few weeks.
No spine, no fire, no guts. I'm not going to say Robme won but damn it was a slaughter.

[Greyson]

The Presidential and VP Debates.

Well, number one was a bust for Obama. Romney was on fire and ignored the ancient Jim Lehrer, who seemed only to monitor President Obama's time.

But I am shocked that Obama was so poorly prepared. God, Mitt was good. Scary.

I think your words pretty well sum it up. I was disappointed in the President's debate performance. The debate has not changed my mind about my vote.

[Martina]

Ed Schultz and Chris Matthews are tearing their hair out tonight on MSNBC. I agree with them. It's about winning, and Romney stepped up and fought to win. Obama stood there and dithered. He did not attack. What a wasted opportunity. I had no idea that it mattered so much to me that this thing not be close. But it's going to be.

There are a lot of points to be scored off the President's record, and Romney got some good ones in. Some were crap, like blaming the President for gridlock. The big mistake Obama made was courting the Republicans too long when he needed to be grabbing them by the balls and twisting.

Romney may be lying his ass off, but people who have not been following this closely will not know.

[Corkey]

I have to wonder if Obama can't seem like the angry one in these debates. I wanted to see some fire from him and got bubkiss.

[RNguy]

Lord is all I can say.
As an independent voter who is very left wing liberal and just so happens to have voted for a democratic candidate every single time , I am a little concerned after tonight that Romney was the better prepared one .
With all that said: Hells bells I'm voting for the best man for the job , Mr president Obama :)
He will pull it off no worries

[Semantics]

Obama did seem shaken...

He didn't seem shaken to me. He seemed bored.
He also said, several times, things like "I agree with the governor" and "the governor and I agree."

I wonder what his deal is.

[Martina]

They said that the President actually had more time. Hard to believe. Romney just punched punched punched while the President ummed. I may be overreacting because I am disappointed -- it's fresh. But it looked to me like a blood bath. The President didn't fall on his face, but he just stood there and took it. I don't understand.

[Toughy]

I say it's their 20th wedding anniversary and he was thinking about 20 years special nookie night..........:|

It certainly has been a while since anybody argued with him. I did not like the personal attacks Romney made, but Romney was in rare form. Romney certainly figured out how to avoid being penned down on anything........."I'm like Reagan...certain principles applied state by state" yeah and the principles are 'a stronger economy, fostering business yadda yadda yadda'.........

a big disappointment I hope those few swing voters will not decide based on tonight's performance...........I soooooooooooo hope Biden is on his game in a week or so

[Corkey]

They said that the President actually had more time. Hard to believe. Romney just punched punched punched while the President ummed. I may be overreacting because I am disappointed -- it's fresh. But it looked to me like a blood bath. The President didn't fall on his face, but he just stood there and took it. I don't understand.

Lawrence said Robme had 4 more minutes more than Obama.

[princessbelle]

I said this on facebook, but, you learn early in school that the only way to win a debate is to be on the offensive, not defensive. Once you start there, you just dig in deeper and deeper.

There were so many chances for the President to rip Romney to shreds, from heath care reform to the 47% he has admitted that he doesn't give a shyt about.

What we heard tonight was a disappointment. I believe our President will learn and do better in the next two debates. It has been 4 years since the President last debated. It showed.

There is a time to be aggressive. When you are standing in front of the nation debating with a man that is lying continually, it is not being "angry" to call him out.

IMO The President should have mopped the floor up with Romney's lies.

I can only hope he does that next time.

[grenade]

I have to wonder if Obama can't seem like the angry one in these debates. I wanted to see some fire from him and got bubkiss.

That's one of the things I love about Obama, no theatrics.

[Corkey]

That's one of the things I love about Obama, no theatrics.

I didn't say theatrics, but fire, there wasn't any he was flat as a pancake. I don't do drama, but damn I'd like to know he actually wants another term.

[Martina]

Why didn't he have anything inspiring to say about the role of government, the last question? I don't get it. Why would you let that pass? How could a Democrat let that pass?

OH god, I've got to let it go. Romney was on the ropes. I am not sure he could have been put away tonight. He was prepared. But it WAS a mugging. Anyway . . . deep breaths.

[Medusa]

Jim Lerher SUCKED ASS and let Mitt Romney run over him time and time again as if Romney was BOTH the moderator and a debater.

Obama better buff up.

p.s. Gwen Ifill would have shut that shit down so quick it wouldn't have been funny.

[princessbelle]

That's an important part to bring up really.

Theatrical...i can only say it was true of Romney. To me, Romney was a text book politician tonight. He is not going to do this and is going to do that and blah blah, everything that he thinks *we* want to hear.

Typical. Politician. With nothing backing it up and not only is it illogical, most of what Romney said, it was full of holes and lies. So many things that he said he would do is not realistic with his actual plans, or hints of plans.

He can just go out there and say anything and get away with it?

So disappointing.

[Martina]

Romney was clear and cogent. He made sense. It's crap, but if you don't know better. . . .

I thought his gestures were good. They helped him illustrate his points. The President stepped on his own lines a couple of times. Romney was on. He was ready. Out for blood.

[BullDog]

Romney had a great performance- all based on lies. The big question is will it matter that he lied over and over again. I'm not confident that it will. Hopefully Obama's leads in the swing states will be enough. Thank god there is the 47% tape. Yep Obama blew it.

[Corkey]

Mitt was talking so fast I couldn't follow a train of thought. He talks a good lie but it's still a lie.

[Toughy]

does anyone know why Obama said he agreed with Romney on Social Security???????????????????? huh?????

going to go smoke a bowl and watch something entirely mindless on the TV or I will 'splode along side Martina...............:fastdraq:

[Novelafemme]

I've only watched a little bit, but so far I am disappointed :(

[Medusa]

Romney had a great performance- all based on lies. The big question is will it matter that he lied over and over again. I'm not confident that it will. Hopefully Obama's leads in the swing states will be enough. Thank god there is the 47% tape. Yep Obama blew it.

I kept waiting for that! Like, if Obama wanted to sink Mitt's ship, all he had to do was bring up the 47%!

He needed to illuminate Mitt as an out-of-touch millionaire who is lying his ass off about giving a shit about the middle class and one who is willing to say anything to get elected so he can keep lining his pockets. Instead, Mitt comes out looking forceful, prepared, in charge, and Presidential while Obama looked shaken.

I am disappointed and unnerved like you wouldn't believe.

[DapperButch]

Did anyone else hear the way Romney uses the term "poor" as odd sounding? "The poor" in places it seemed to make sense that one would say lower economic class or something similar? He also seemed uncomfortable referencing that group, as well. I don't know how to explain it, or how to put my finger on it, but it felt creepy.

[Corkey]

Did anyone else hear the way Romney uses the term "poor" as odd sounding? "The poor" in places it seemed to make sense that one would say lower economic class or something similar? He also seemed uncomfortable referencing that group, as well. I don't know how to explain it, or how to put my finger on it, but it felt creepy.

Yea, I'm one of the pooooooor.

[~ocean]

romeny back peddeled ... he is for big oil co. and against the US becomming mor e independent .. he did not create teh health care for massachusetts it was already to go inplace .. he shouldnt be taking credit for that .. it was all democtaric designed. b4 he got here in massachusetts .. u cant go on state worth in college tution .. students need fed gov help .. period. thats not improving education when u have highly intelligent ppl in thsi world who deserve to go to college on their own and NOT ask mom and dad .. who usualy cant afford college .. i agree obama didnt seem comfotable in teh debate .. I would assume it didnt change the minds of the american public at all about Obama if theyhave been FOLLOWING Romeny to begin with ,, ** wipes both sides of Romeny's mouth **

[Martina]

Politico already has Chris Matthew's tearing his hair out comments (http://www.politico.com/blogs/media/2012/10/msnbcs-chris-matthews-rants-where-was-obama-tonight-137447.html?hp=l1) up online --

By MACKENZIE WEINGER |
10/3/12 11:12 PM EDT

MSNBC’s Chris Matthews on Wednesday had one major question after the debate: “Where was Obama tonight?”

Matthews — who said Wednesday night's showdown “wasn’t an MSNBC debate, was it?” because it didn’t mention the “key fighting points of this campaign" — blasted Obama’s debate performance, saying he went into the night “disarmed.” What Romney was doing tonight, unlike Obama, was "winning," Matthews said.

“Where was Obama tonight?” Matthews asked. “He should watch — well, not just ‘Hardball,’ Rachel [Maddow], he should watch you, he should watch the Reverend Al [Sharpton], he should watch Lawrence [O'Donnell], he would learn something about this debate. There's a hot debate going on in this country. Do you know where it’s being held? Here on this network is where we're having the debate. We have our knives out. We go after the people and the facts. What was he doing tonight? He went in there disarmed.”

Matthews described Obama’s debate performance as “like, ‘I’ll wait an hour and a half, I think I can get through this thing. I don’t even look at this guy.' Whereas Romney — I loved the split screen, staring at Obama, addressing him, like the prey. He did it just right. I'm coming at an incumbent. I've got to beat him. You gotta beat the champ, and I’m gonna beat him tonight. And I don't care what this guy moderator, whatever he thinks he is, because I'm going to ignore him. What was Romney doing? He was winning.”

Matthews said he didn’t know what Obama “was doing out there — he had his head down. He was enduring the debate rather than fighting it.”

Romney, though, went out there with a “plan” to dominate the evening, and he succeeded, Matthews said.

“He was going to dominate the time. He was going to be aggressive. He was going to push the moderator around, which he did effectively. He was going to relish the evening, enjoying it. Nothing to do with the words he spoke. Here's my question for Obama. I know he likes to say he doesn't watch cable television, but maybe he should start. Maybe he should start. I don't know how he let Romney get away with the crap he threw out tonight about social security,” Matthews said.

Matthews also criticized the president for not invoking Romney’s history at Bain Capital and his “47 percent” comments that were secretly filmed during a private fundraiser.

“Why didn't Obama say that? Why didn’t he say that?” Matthews asked.

[Martina]

According to Politico, there's a twitter thread called #SilentJimLehrer.

Okay, I am going to try to chill too. Sigh.

[Corkey]

My BP can't take another "debate" like this one.

[Rockinonahigh]

I am stuned that Obama wasnt the same speaker he was in 08,I thought tonight he would be stronger than he was.I still will vote for himcause I never thought Romney was a man of the people cause he is an ovr rich loud mouth who is in it for even more for him and his like.

[Allison W]

Be as disappointed as you please with the President's performance in the debate, but he did keep the pressure on Romney. I rather appreciate that he kept bringing up Romney's clusterfuck of a deficit plan and the extreme vagueness of his policies--a running theme was that Obama was willing to reveal his policies and admit to their costs, whereas Romney kept playing a sad and bizarre shell game, presumably on the assumption that if he just pretends the costs of his un-policies aren't there, voters will imagine him to shit sunshine and rainbows.

That said, Romney was very well-prepared and well-spoken for a night of arguing. It's just that he's such a vapid excuse for a candidate that his performance was just that--a slick song-and-dance routine, and nothing more. His lying may or may not have won him the debate, but it is doubtful that it will win him the election--Romney simply wasn't thinking about the long-term consequences as opposed to the short-term ones. Obama, on the other hand, now has a whole mess of Romney lies that he can throw back in his face with poison added, in addition to the light shined on the magical faerie dust hole in his deficit policy.

Sure, if taken entirely in a vacuum, Romney did very well. The thing is... this isn't a vacuum. For all the unpleasant shit that can be said about the American voting public, they have been paying an unusual amount of attention this election cycle, and Romney was thus setting himself up for a long-term failure.

So when I was watching the debates, I was worried. But in retrospect, I think Obama was allowing Romney to tie the noose around his own neck. And I don't have any particular doubt as to whether Obama will hang him by it.

[Corkey]

Yea but we're not the voters he needed to convince. I got his back, but there are too many independent and frankly ignorant folks who bought Robme's lies. He missed some prime opportunities, and it showed.

[Allison W]

And it's we libs who are complaining about Obama's performance not having been good enough. Outside of MSNBC he's been getting a more favourable review, or so I heard.

[Corkey]

Where? 'Cause FB is not so forgiving.

[princessbelle]

Yea but we're not the voters he needed to convince. I got his back, but there are too many independent and frankly ignorant folks who bought Robme's lies. He missed some prime opportunities, and it showed.

I agree.

And those that are independents do not watch MSNBC, they watch Fox or mainstream and they don't hear the lies.

They only hear them if they are called out in a nonpartisan situation as in the debates.

The debates are the only realistic way to call out the ridiculous hypothetical, hypocritical, no real plan, ass-kissing, political mumbo jumbo that Romney spews.

We can only hope/pray/believe that this will be done in the next debates.

[Allison W]

Where? 'Cause FB is not so forgiving.

I was actually speaking of a local channel, but after checking CNN (which might be a better indicator), well, shit.

It's not like Obama to just let himself get walked on for no reason, though. So I'm going to hold onto the hypothesis that Obama was letting Romney walk into a trap--Obama plays a long-term game, and if he somehow calculated that letting Romney run his mouth tonight would give him a prime opportunity to deal a killing blow later, it wouldn't surprise me if he chose to do exactly that. The debate may yet turn out to be a pyrrhic victory for Romney.

...Orrrrr perhaps it's just Obama's overconfidence getting ahead of him and he wasn't expecting Romney to be that on the ball. If that's the case, we can expect Obama to be far better-prepared in round two.

[Corkey]

Salon.com has the debate debunk if anyone is interested.

[Martina]

feeling less intensely about it -- but did you see the video of andrew sullivan's reaction?

http://www.thedailybeast.com/videos.html

[Kätzchen]

Loved it that Medusa used the "sink your ship" metaphor: I found an early press release on last night's debate published by US News and toward the end of the article, I found a similar gem:
"Second, while the Romney campaign seems to bank on distinct moments in time to turn the race—first the vice presidential rollout was going to restart the campaign, then the Republican National Convention was going to spark a Romney surge—the fact is that elections are akin to aircraft carriers. They generally don't turn on a dime," (Robert Schlesinger; Oct. 3, 2012)

You can find the full article >>> HERE (http://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2012/10/03/sorry-romney-presidential-debates-are-rarely-game-changers_print.html) <<<

[Scorp]

Well, I for one purposely didn't watch The Debate. I didn't want to see bullshit going back and forth like kids slinging mud at one another and who can outdo who, especially with that rich, lying, imbecile Romney...

This type of crap gets on my nerves and why waste my energy and evening on that shit. I'm an Obama fan and hope he wins. And either fortunately or unfortunately whatever is going to happen, is going to happen no matter what.

I wanted to enjoy my evening watching my DVR shows. Which, by the way, I did watch a few episodes of "Long Island Medium"

All I know is if Romney does win...We're all fucked...And, I didn't need to watch the debate to know that.

P.S. I saw a bit of recap while watching the news while getting ready for work and saw you had to throw in Big Bird, really Romney, really? That's what came to your head:wtf:(rolls eyes) Uh, yeah, Ok...Dimwit...

[Kobi]

I dont know that I agree on the pundits assessment of the debate. I guess it depends on what factors one is using to determine a winner.

Wardrobe - Romney. Red power tie vs purple subdued tie.

Energy - Obama. Frenetic energy is Romneys forte. Frenetic energy tends to be contagious but it is also used to obscure a message. Frenetic energy makes one appear to be dynamic but it is also indicative of desperation and anxiety.

Obama was his usual controlled, low key self. I dont know about anyone else but I would rather the White House be occupied by someone who exudes stability, constancy, and consistency rather than a whirling dervish of contradictions.

Credibility - Obama. The man inhereted a mess. Yet his message has never waivered. It is the hallmark of an incumbent. Romney has always tailors his message to the audience du jour. It is the hallmark of a contender. Obama has always been true to himself. Romney has always been willing to be whatever anyone needs him to be.

Message - Obama. I may not always agree with him but the man has a vision of the bigger picture, the global picture, which is running the world today. He is the pioneer President who has to deal with the never before known hazards of a meltdown of a global economy. He has had to deal with the USA becoming a partner in rather than the leader of the world. Yet, his humanity and his values have never waivered.

Romney, on the other hand, is stuck on a USA only vision. He is stuck spouting policies and ideals which are outdated; economics which have failed miserably in the past and are the antithesis of what is needed for a global economy; and he is panderer.

Personality - Obama. A global economy and global world require thought, cooperation, negotiation, compromise, and a willingness to tackle the hard stuff that challenges ones own values, beliefs and principles.

Romney, no matter how hard he tries, still comes across as a bull in a china shop, a bully, an intimidator, a steamroller, and a control freak. This will not bode well in a global picture. The USA doesnt have the clout or the money to operate this way.

Humor - Obama. Obama is a master of understated irony and he got his digs in. Made me laugh at his cleverness a few times. I dont think Romney even has a humerus.

Ideas - Obama. The man is very reality based. Is a tough world out there. There are no easy answers. There is no Superman or Superwoman who is going to swoop in with a magical elixir and fix all that ails us and the world.

Romney, as a contender, is still relying on selling the fantasy of what he can and will do. It might sound good to some, it might sound like the right thing cuz he is making it seem so simple and easy. If it was that easy, dont you think someone would have done it by now?

He is stuck in Friedman economics which is famous for making 2 classes of people - the obscenely rich and the obscenely poor; and for requiring the exertion of a great deal of control over the masses.

Not exactly the way the pundits called it.

[Gráinne]

I think I disagree with most of the pundits myself, especially after a good night's sleep. I was very upset with Obama, but today I think I'm coming around.

I thought Romney acted as if he'd had several pots of strong coffee and an entire bottle of No-Doz. He jumped in and interrupted the moderator and the President. I thought he was rude and condescending there.

What some are calling listless and tired, I thought was calm and professional. Obama is never going to be Christie, Mr. Fire. He always has been, and always will be, wonky and subdued. He really hadn't changed that much.

I actually thought Obama was smart not to dig with the 47% or Bain. He was sticking to the big picture, not the sideshows (even those that show Romney's character).

Romney also contradicted himself, and I hope the Obama campaign makes use of his statements.

However, I am afraid that voters not familiar with Romney's record watched last night and liked what they saw; more energy, almost a bullyish attitude that some might want to see in foreign policy.

Romney might have "won", but fortunately this was only the first debate, and that news cycle will probably be long gone two weeks from now, or even by next week. I cannot envision how Ryan will make a better impression than Biden.

[~ocean]

I totaty agree w. u Kobi !! also, Romney's constant interuptions. Romeny had to do something to save his campaign , even if it meant to change his stand lol... Obama looked a tad surprised w. Romeny agreeing w. a few things .. like i said b4 ..

**wipes Romneys mouth on both sides**

[princessbelle]

I am a little calmer today as well. But, i still think that Bain and the 47% should have been addressed as well as many other points about Medicare and SS.

Afterall, Medicare is going to change one way or another and many, many of *us* will be the ones that it changes on. Romney was just a yes man last night IMO.

Being a yes man gets many politicians elected. That has been proven over and over. With no real substance, just saying the right things at the right time.

That's what bothers me more than anything. It was a chance to call him out and let the American people know that he has nothing and no plan to back most everything he spewed out.

Again, i believe the debate was not really what it was meant to be. It was more of a "Romney is saying the right things and Obama is standing there looking down and distracted and letting him".

I do believe the next one will be better. I believe that. I have to believe that.

please oh please :praying:

[Reader]

Bam is a brilliant strategist. I am hoping he planned this all to give Mitt a false sense of security and also to give him confidence to shoot his mouth off some more.

Maybe he also wanted to make sure everyone who supported him last time, comes out in big numbers for him again like we did last time.

[Martina]

The strategy was for him to look Presidential. And it backfired, especially as Mitt lied and made him look befuddled.

Strategists (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1012/82037.html?hp=t1) admitted as much to Politico. It was a big mistake.

In fact, the debate made the President look vulnerable, the opposite of the intention of the strategy.

The President looks beatable. His base is frustrated and demoralized (I am sure temporarily) while Romney's folks are energized.

[Reader]

The strategy was for him to look Presidential. And it backfired, especially as Mitt lied and made him look befuddled.

Strategists (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1012/82037.html?hp=t1) admitted as much to Politico. It was a big mistake.

In fact, the debate made the President look vulnerable, the opposite of the intention of the strategy.

The President looks beatable. His base is frustrated and demoralized (I am sure temporarily) while Romney's folks are energized.

I appreciate what you are saying. I was ripping angry last night.

But, I meant more of a medium-range strategy. I think, if it WAS an actual strategic move, we won't see its result for a week or so, until the next 2 debates.

[Reader]

Incidentally, Big Bird has now been replaced by Tweety Bird as Tweety is willing to work for chicken scratch.

[Corkey]

Today there has been a backlash like Obama finally gets it. Robme was being bullish and it showed. Unfortunately most voters don't get the nuances of body language or can tell a lie from spin. I do like what Obama has done today with his speeches.
The President can't do what he did, head down, not look at Robme, not look up from his notes in the next debate. He has to take Robme head on look him directly in the eye and tell him he's a lier.

[Blade]

I wasn't very happy with Obama's debate performance. I didn't think he seemed bored I thought he seemed preoccupied. I mean think about it the Pres. is a busy man with much more on his mind than a debate. Who knows what may have happened yesterday to have caused him to be off his game.

I know many others have mentioned the 47%. If I had that ammunition in my bag of arsenal, I wouldn't use it in the first debate. However I would use it in my last debate. Placement is important. Hopefully in the last debate Obama will toss out a reminder about the 47% comment that Shitty Mitty made and that will be fresh on the minds of voters when they go to the polls. I'll bet the 47% can keep Shitty Mitty out of office. If Obama had mentioned the 47% during this debate...it would give the Romney Camp time to make new commercials to take voters minds off of that comment.

I agree that mediator needs to go back to the rest home.

[BullDog]

Obama gave a good stump speech in Denver today. The frustrating part is why didn't he say a lot of those things last night during the debate.

I expected him to take the presidential route, but not being so passive. To me he appears to be disgusted with Romney and the Republicans with all of their lies and distortions. However, he still has to make his case as to why he should be president for the next four years. Also a big part of being presidential is being in command and appearing strong and decisive.

I watch the electoral college because that is what matters. If Obama's lead in Ohio starts to evaporate I will start sweating bullets. If not, I think he will win. It will be very difficult for Romney to win without Ohio. If Obama wins Ohio and one of the other remaining swing states like Iowa, New Hampshire etc. he is almost certain to win unless something really dramatic happens.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Obama kept calm, perhaps to subdued. He's in a no win situation as a President who isn't white. If he's to confrontational he's the rabid black man if he's to soft he's weak. In my opinion Mittens looked, acted, spoke like he was on a 60oz can of Monster drink, he was pushy, inconsiderate, slobbery and imposing. He danced around, waffled, repeated himself and LIED.

Obama could of been more aggressive but I feel it would of made Mittens more foamy at the mouth. The Moderator SUCKED and it made me cringe when he corrected Obama about his time being up. Mittens Interruptous wasn't spoken to in that manner and that felt icky.

I personally won't expect for Obama to be overly aggressive, it would hurt him since the kooka nuts already paint him as the hateful black Muslim guy.

[The_Lady_Snow]

PS...

We need women Moderators not just ancient white guys, that needs to change as well.

[Reader]

Romney: "The rich are just fine". The one line from last night that sums up his whole platform's reason for being: keeping the rich fine and getting finer.

[Kätzchen]

I wish I could distill into simple sets of information what is on my mind concerning serious debates of this nature, but I am not that skilled yet in doing so. I process information in relatively very slow ways and one of the reasons I am not so good at that yet is because I largely think in abstract terms and ways and it takes me a while to narrow items of consideration down to a point where I can make sense of these sorts of things.

I know who I will be casting my vote for in the upcoming election but aside from that, to me the larger part of the story rests upon extended and ongoing national and international unrest. Not only is it terribly important that the US have a leader who is capable of making reliable executive decision, that takes into consideration the health of our own society, but there needs to be a concentrated effort in demonstrating a capacity to take into consideration the health of other societies and social issues of extreme paramount of importance: For example, the recent markers of global unrest in Libya, Egypt, Syria (Middle East participant societies) and items of unrest residing on the global stage of economic unrest (the Euro affair, etc) - all to say that our own Presidential election issues affect not only us, but others who work cooperatively on a global stage. In my mind, leadership is not a singular act - it is cooperative by design.

To me, this is why - as an observer to the debates or other issues recieving wide media attention - we (the general 'we') may not see items publicly addressed, or items that we feel need public redress, in timely ways; as there might be more at stake than can be given a public accounting for.

(eta: Where was Gwen Eiffel? Does anyone know why she was not appointed to facilitate the debate? I like her style as a facilitator, moderator.)

[Toughy]

Obama must win because of 3 words: The Supreme Court The next President could appoint up to 4 Supreme Court Justices.....Scalia and Kennedy are both 76yrs old and could well step down in the next 4 years. Scalia is the most conservative Justice along with Clarence Thomas (age 64). Kennedy is sometimes a swing vote, but really is a staunch conservative. Ginsberg is 79 and Breyer is 74 and are both staunch progressives and could step down in the next 4 years. We could be fucked big time for at least a generation.

Jim Leher is old and needs to be replaced by Gwen Eiffel. However Gwen is not moderating any of the debates. Website for the debates: http://www.debates.org/

I also have to say it sooooooooooooo sucks that absolutely none of the 3rd party candidates were part of the debate. We need them to hold people's feet to the fire. KPFA and Democracy Now actually had the alternative debate with 3rd party candidates Jill Stein of the Green Party and Rocky Anderson of the Justice Party. After Romney and Obama gave their answers Stein and Anderson answered the same questions. You can listen here: http://www.kpfa.org/archive/id/84853

I think Romney should be called on all his lies from last night and he is being called on it by some papers today....such as Business Week and the Wall Street Journal. It's pretty amazing he just ignored what he has been saying for a year and made up a whole bunch of new stuff. And Obama certainly is taking on ALL the lies today and cracking some pretty good jokes in the process..........

I'm also thinking Obama had his head down because he was talking to himself and saying....don't get mad, don't look at him or you will punch him in his lying face, don't get made, don't get mad........I kinda figure that is his self talk last night.........shrug.............

sleeping on it always gives me perspective.........

[Ciaran]

I don't have a horse in this race (I'm not US so won't be voting) but managed to catch much of the debate in an airport.


From my outside perspective, there's no doubt that Romney came across more impressively than Obama. Obama was too impassive and, for much of it, appeared to lack focus. In addition, his approach seemed slightly more academic which isn't what wins this type of debate. Maybe it comes across as Presidential, I don't know. However, I would want a leader, not a President. Obama didn't come across as a leader.


That said, IMO, it actually worked out well for Obama. Why? Because, in practice, the importance of these debates can be blown out of proportion. Those most interested in the specifics and who watch and take-in these debates from start to finish have typically made up their minds beforehand. The debate doesn't sway them.


Therefore, for someone such as Obama who, despite some US media coverage suggesting that this is a tight race (the international media coverage is very different, recognising Obama's significant lead in key swing states and that's what this election will come down to), is in an extremely strong position, the key objective from last night's debate was to avoid any significant gaffs that could get all of the USA excited and talking about today, outside of the normal election coverage. He avoided any such gaffs so, in my opinion, it worked for him in that nothing significant occurred so as to impact on his lead in the swing states.


That said, if I were American and unemployed / underemployed, I would be worried about both his responses and those of his challenger yesterday evening. Neither would have filled me with any confidence or hope.

[Slater]

I know many others have mentioned the 47%. If I had that ammunition in my bag of arsenal, I wouldn't use it in the first debate. However I would use it in my last debate. Placement is important. Hopefully in the last debate Obama will toss out a reminder about the 47% comment that Shitty Mitty made and that will be fresh on the minds of voters when they go to the polls. I'll bet the 47% can keep Shitty Mitty out of office. If Obama had mentioned the 47% during this debate...it would give the Romney Camp time to make new commercials to take voters minds off of that comment.

I agree that mediator needs to go back to the rest home.

He can't really use it in the 3rd debate because that one is about foreign policy not domestic policy. And the middle debate isn't so much a debate as it is a joint town hall meeting. Now he might be hoping that things like the 47% and the tax returns will come up in the town hall debate--and likely they will. Then he can run with it without being the one who brought it up.

[DMW]

If it wasn't clear before, it's clear after watching last night's debates:
fact checkers are critical for future presidential and vice presidential debates.

Please add your name to my SignOn.org petition asking for
unbiased fact checkers at the presidential and vice presidential debates,
so that voters can base their decisions on facts rather than rhetoric.

Sign the Petition!

Dear MoveOn member,

Whenever I see a political ad or hear a politician speak,
I'm (1) angry because I know it is a lie,
(2) confused because I am not sure, or
(3) pleased because I assume that my preferred
candidates are speaking the truth.

Voters must be given the truth before
they can make decisions that are in their own best
interests and that of our country. That's why I
created a petition on SignOn.org to
the Commission on Presidential Debates and
the major TV networks, which says:

Have unbiased fact checkers at the presidential and vice presidential debates so that voters can base their decisions on facts rather than rhetoric.

Click here to sign the petition

http://signon.org/sign/have-fact-checkers-at?source=mo&id=53802-22254741-ULa1YLx

Catch romney in the lies...rehatch the flip floppers words...

[Martina]

This race could be very close. Close elections in the U.S. mean that fraud can make the difference, and we have fraud. Rachel Maddow today had a segment today on Idaho's voter guide, which says, "Bring Your ID and Vote" when there is no voter ID requirement in Idaho. A firm employed by the RNC just got caught turning in fraudulant registration forms in Florida. This is a firm which had destroyed Democratic registration cards in swing states in 04.

In 2000, Gore lost a lot of traction after the debates, and in 04 Kerry got within striking distance after a good showing. They can narrow the race significantly.

I think Romney will get a bounce from this, the bounce he didn't get after the Convention. It will make the race a close one, and that is dangerous in this country because the Republicans are willing to break the law to win elections.

One great quote I heard - can't recall who said it -- went something like Obama's campaign has been doing the work for him while Romney has been doing the work for his campaign. Romney is in there fighting with everything he has. Obama spent last Sunday watching football. It's not encouraging.

[PapiChino]

The Presidential and VP Debates.

Well, number one was a bust for Obama. Romney was on fire and ignored the ancient Jim Lehrer, who seemed only to monitor President Obama's time.

But I am shocked that Obama was so poorly prepared. God, Mitt was good. Scary.

Maybe Romney's lies shocked him. But the President DID look tired and he stuttered often. Oh well....on to the next debate..

[DMW]

watch this...http://www.bradblog.com/?p=1050

ohhh i didn't see this...and someone that Curtis worked with was murdered also.. i forget all of the details...awhile ago...http://www.votinglies.com/


Diebold and sequoia... 2 companies and 2 states just for starters
OHIO in 2004 and then florida in 2000. there were more of course..but, those were the kickers

Diebold todayhttp://kaystreet.wordpress.com/2012/10/01/diebold-voting-machines-can-be-hacked-by-remote-control-2/

one of the greatest...i will never forget...Senators like Hillary were demanding paper receipts of ballots for her state and the nation. so that the voter at least had a paper print out from these
backward machines. I will always pull a straight ticket no matter what now.

and now redistricting fraud... ugh


and some more voter fraud info...from old. haven't visited it in awhile
http://www.bbvforums.org/cgi-bin/forums/discus.cgi?pg=topics

[DMW]

Nice, bev has kept the states updated...http://www.bbvforums.org/cgi-bin/forums/discus.cgi?pg=topics

ES&S is another screwed up fraud machine company. http://www.blackboxvoting.org/ I cannot recall, at the moment, if they merged or were bought out by diebold or sequoia or visa versa...doesn't matter really.

The only good thing is to get a paper receipt. some machines are better than others. point is...can't trust it and it is even more of a reason to vote.


and bain...http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/09/1985-romney-bain-harvest-firms-profits-video


and redistricting and karl rove and the koch brothers...this is just basic information. there is a shit storm of redistricting across the nation.
http://www.democracynow.org/2011/10/4/a_war_of_voting_could_redistricting

[Martina]

Politico (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1012/82053.html?hp=t1) was saying that this is going to get donor money flowing again. He has had some fundraising woes lately -- Romney has.

Also, they have not had effective ads. The clips from this -- again, according to that article -- will provide a lot of good material for future ads.

Plus, the increase in credibility will mean that more voters will be willing to actually listen to his message. For a few the message will resonate.

Unless there are some great Obama ads focusing on Romney's lying, I think it's a net good for Romney.

[Slater]

Romney is now saying that he was completely wrong about the 47% so it's going to be harder for Obama to leverage that. He still can, with something along the lines of how out of touch he must be to have thought that in the first place AND taken so long to realize he was wrong.

In the end, Obama saving the auto industry might be the difference in the election because the industrial Midwest is where this election will hinge.

[Corkey]

Obama is polling at 54%, so he got a bump out of the debates as well. I think folks are starting to see the real Mitt, and are not liking what they see.

[Rockinonahigh]

Obama is polling at 54%, so he got a bump out of the debates as well. I think folks are starting to see the real Mitt, and are not liking what they see.

Ya know, I've been thinking this is just what the president wanted people to see.The more Romney blows and goes the worst he gets,a snake oil peddler chant, sooner or later it will get him.

[Martina]

CNN reports that the President himself is not pleased with his performance. We'll see how it goes in two weeks. Here's hoping that Romney doesn't get much of a bump and that Obama's ad guys do some genius work.

[Kätzchen]

While sleepless tonight and reading political blogs, I came across an article in the UK Telegragh (How a broker spent $520m in a drunken stupor and moved the global oil price) about a 34 yr. old oil trader who, in an alcohol induced blackout, traded "huge volumes of oil with very little cash up front and no position limit" (see article, HERE (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/oilandgas/7862246/How-a-broker-spent-520m-in-a-drunken-stupor-and-moved-the-global-oil-price.html)).

After the intial shock of reading how this happened, I noticed in the lower right-hand corner of their blog, a link to an The National Memo's article about Mitt Romney and the political head-spinning twist of saying that he was going to "end public finance of America's largest classroom - PBS;" which PBS fired back saying that they're going to announce the shows' newest member "Big Oil" and that if "this works out, next season we'll meet Big Oil's imaginary friend, Clean Coal" (see article, HERE (http://www.nationalmemo.com/sesame-street-to-introduce-a-new-character-in-honor-of-mitt-romney-big-oil/)).



Which, in turn, led me to another article at The National Memo, which spoke to 5 reasons why Romney is a worse candidate than John McCain was, last time we had a presidential election (see article, HERE (http://www.nationalmemo.com/five-reasons-mitt-romney-is-a-much-worse-candidate-than-john-mccain-was-2/)). Short form from the article:
A draft-avoiding, private equity maven with a record conforming his views with the orthodoxy of his party. Romney's one great accomplishment -- health care reform -- almost cost him his party's nomination.
When Mitt Romney picked Paul Ryan, he may have picked someone who is more experienced on the public stage than Sarah Palin, but he also picked a candidate many voters will vote against for his plans to slash Medicare, Medicaid and education.
(The race card) Mitt Romney's relentless repetition of a debunked charge about welfare reform reeks of racial innuendo.
Who quits a winning campaign six weeks before election day? No one. But Romney's national co-chair Tim Pawlenty did just that on Thursday.
(Statistic proof provided by The Pew) Romney has the worst favorable to unfavorable ratings of any candidate (http://www.people-press.org/files/2012/09/9-19-12-22.png) for president since Pew started measuring such things.
In addition, I thought some of you might find this article fascinating (I know I did). I have excerpted the opening article lines from Highly Debatable: The Big Liar’s Biggest Lies:
“It’s not easy to debate a liar,” complained an email from one observer of the first presidential debate – and there was no question about which candidate he meant. Prevarication, falsification, fabrication are all familiar tactics that have been employed by Mitt Romney without much consequence to him ever since he entered public life, thanks to the inviolable taboo in the mainstream media against calling out a liar (unless, of course, he lies about sex)" (Link provided, HERE (http://www.nationalmemo.com/highly-debatable-the-big-liars-biggest-lies/)).

[~ocean]

can u just picture leaders of other countrys laughing at ROMNEY holding BIG BIRD accountable for the deficit !! lol .. how embarassing ~~

[DapperButch]

Maybe Romney's lies shocked him. But the President DID look tired and he stuttered often. Oh well....on to the next debate..

Yes, I thought to myself that Romney lying/changing up might have thrown Obama off. Obama's mind must have been a bit blown at that moment. Since Obama can be good at hiding emotions we may not have seen this on his face.

[Martina]

Rasmussen and WeAskAmerica have Romney getting bumps in Florida and Virginia. Rasmussen always sorta favors Romney, but if they detect a change, then I imagine there was one. I don't know much about the WeAskAmerica folks.

Gallup's national poll gave Obama a one point bump. Go figure.

Anyway, here's hoping the job numbers make up some of the difference. Obama is lucky, and luck is part of the equation.

[Kätzchen]

This race could be very close. Close elections in the U.S. mean that fraud can make the difference, and we have fraud. Rachel Maddow today had a segment today on Idaho's voter guide, which says, "Bring Your ID and Vote" when there is no voter ID requirement in Idaho. A firm employed by the RNC just got caught turning in fraudulant registration forms in Florida. This is a firm which had destroyed Democratic registration cards in swing states in 04.

In 2000, Gore lost a lot of traction after the debates, and in 04 Kerry got within striking distance after a good showing. They can narrow the race significantly.

I think Romney will get a bounce from this, the bounce he didn't get after the Convention. It will make the race a close one, and that is dangerous in this country because the Republicans are willing to break the law to win elections.

One great quote I heard - can't recall who said it -- went something like Obama's campaign has been doing the work for him while Romney has been doing the work for his campaign. Romney is in there fighting with everything he has. Obama spent last Sunday watching football. It's not encouraging.

Heh. I wonder if the Republican party in Idaho is being investigated for tampering with voting processes. I'm a former Idahoan and my homestate has been held in a Republican stranglehold-gridlock for years. I wish I knew someone in the Democratic offices over there, so I could find out what is going on. I see that Lawrence G. Wasden is Idaho's current Attorney General and he appears to be two years younger than me. He also got his education at Brigham Young University in Utah. If Wasden cares about his governmental seat of power, I would think he would issue and expedite an independent investigation of his own political party's culpability in having anything to do with the voting process in Idaho; and find out who is behind this and swiftly prosecute non-partisanly the people who are behind tampering with voter rights and processes.

Racism and Religious politics are twin governing forces in my homestate and the exact reason I left there, years ago.

[Martina]

Laughing at Jon Stewart's line: "Mr. President, you broke Chris Matthews!"

And WTF is wrong with Jack Welch? Seriously crazy.

[macele]

maddow also talked about the pennsylvania voters website telling voters to bring photo ID when it's not a have-to there. could make a difference in voting.

[Okiebug61]

Obama may have not looked good but I'm taking the high road on this one. Romney spewed so much bs that now he has nowhere to go but down. We get to vote 30 days from tomorrow and I am going to believe that the real Amerian People will know what to do. :-)

[Martina]

From Politico (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1012/82091.html):

Nobody had to tell President Barack Obama he had whiffed when he walked off the stage in Denver Wednesday night — nor was he in the mood for a lot of advice.

“You could tell he was pissed,” said a person close to the president, “But it wasn’t like the end of the world. It was like, ‘That wasn’t good. The next one has to better.’ No apologies. No hand-wringing.”

That night, after a brief, terse chat with his advisers backstage at the University of Denver arena — “He had real clarity about what had happened,” one of them told POLITICO with a chuckle — Obama hopped in his limo, “The Beast,” and sped off to a nearby DoubleTree with wife Michelle.

He had had enough of politics for the night.
. . . .

At first, Obama didn’t think his performance was a complete disaster. But he began Thursday morning by watching excerpts of his own performance and was especially struck by his own tentative, grim demeanor — especially when he and a more relaxed Mitt Romney were broadcast in split-screen. It was worse than he thought, according to one person close to the situation. He was subdued but positive on a conference call with staff.
. . . .

Hours after arguably the worst debate performance of his career, Obama charged that Romney is a different man than the guy he faced Wednesday. But it was the president who seemed to be a totally different guy on Thursday. Gone was the distracted, deer-in-headlights mumbler. In his place, suddenly, was someone doing a pretty good impersonation of Obama ’08.

His mood was radically different Thursday — not just calm but buoyant, loose, focused. It reminded several aides close to the president of his response to Hillary Clinton’s stunning comeback win in the New Hampshire primary in 2008. It’s a cliché in his camp that Obama only feels really motivated when his own destruction is in sight, but the magnitude of his lousy performance clearly motivated him as he plunged back into campaigning.
. . . .
With Obama, it’s not just about will — it’s always about mood, too. For all that’s been written about his flop in front of roughly 67 million viewers, the reality, according to the people who know him best, is that he just wasn’t in the right headspace. The president had too many conflicting thoughts bouncing around his head and could never quite reconcile his desire to attack Romney with his fear of alienating voters by appearing angry or unpresidential. The result was a muddle that has given Romney new life.

Obama had always planned to play it pretty safe, but his advisers expected him to be more aggressive, peppering Romney with requests for specifics on his deficit and tax plans. They also figured on him smiling a whole lot more, a key part of winning the body-language battle.

And, to the puzzlement of Democrats, he didn’t mention two of the most effective attack lines — Bain Capital and Romney’s “47 percent” video.

On Thursday, Plouffe told reporters on Air Force One that the omissions weren’t deliberate.
. . . .

“Thank God somebody is finally getting tough on Big Bird,” he said. “We didn’t know that Big Bird was driving the federal deficit. … Elmo, too?” But it wasn’t the joke that struck a top Obama adviser watching from stage right, it was the way the boss was gripping the lectern — left hand grabbing the front, right hand in his pocket.

“Look,” the person said, “That’s what he does when he’s really into it.”
. . . .

“It’s not a positive by any means,” an Obama aide said. “But for our supporters, the debate was sort of helpful because they have assumed the race was locked up. It isn’t. But that message hasn’t been getting through. This might scare them.”

[Martina]

I know he's human and entitled to preferences (doesn't love campaigning) and moods, but, as I am sure he is aware of, a lot depends on his re-election, and as others have pointed out, his supporters are working their hearts out. Preferences and moods are just not relevant for the next thirty-two days.

-- still annoyed

[Martina]

Another article (http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2012/10/obamas-old-friends-react-to-the-debate.html)about the Obama performance. :|

Anyway, enough chewing over this (for me), but it is an interesting article.


“The reason I hate campaigns,” Edley continued, “is that being right on the substance isn’t good enough. That’s why I’m an academic. Of course, Obama knows that, but it’s also a question of what he cares about. I admire him for caring more about the substance than the tactics even if it makes me grimace when I watch him. Why does he do it? Look, we all do things in the short term that are not consistent with a long-term goal, whether it’s failing to save for retirement or watching TV instead of doing your homework. It’s called being human rather than being the ideal client of your handlers. It makes it harder to achieve his goal, which is to get reëlected. But if you wanted authenticity you got it [on Wednesday] night. And, really, you got it in an unsurprising way. We know that Obama skews cerebral and that he has never liked debates as a way to engage issues. He has said that many times.”


With Romney working his ass off, I don't care about Obama's preferences. His acceptance speech at the Convention was lackluster too.

I also read that Obama has had fewer press conferences than any President in recent times and many fewer impromptu Q&A sessions. I recall us bitching about how few W. had, how he would duck the press. Obama has done soft interviews on shows like "The View." I am totally not impressed with any President -- or any politician -- who does not frequently answer un-vetted questions from the serious press. Obama is criticizing Romney for elitism. Sorry, but staying above the fray like an academic and refusing to take on the rough and tumble of a White House press conference -- that's pretty elitist.

I am honked off with the big man.

[JustJo]

The President certainly wasn't at his best in the first debate, even he knows that, but I don't think it's a problem at all.

Romney spewed so much bs, and the fact-checkers have been having a party ever since, that all he's actually accomplished is to play out plenty of rope for Obama to hang him with.

Pathological liars, and sorry but I do believe Romney is one, lie so frequently and so often that eventually they can't even keep their own lies straight. He's shown us what he really thinks when he believes he's only with his rich, white cohorts in that 47% video. I don't care what he says about it afterwards....that kind of crap sticks in the backs of people's minds and gnaws.

For me, for the first time in my life, I'm voting straight Democratic ticket. Period.

[Martina]

The President certainly wasn't at his best in the first debate, even he knows that, but I don't think it's a problem at all.. . .

For me, for the first time in my life, I'm voting straight Democratic ticket. Period.

It's not affecting my vote. But I wondered what happened and wasn't pleased with what I learned.

They only have eight years in the job at the most. They can sleep when they're out of office. I know they need to recharge, etc. But I am not impressed. Or with the press conference infrequency. I am going to vote for the man, but I hope that Michelle or someone kicked his ass.

I understand that Eisenhower was depressed. We all know that W. slept half his life away. But, unless you ARE depressed -- and then, get treatment -- it's not too much to expect full engagement at the BIG events. Good god. No damned excuse for phoning it in. I do wonder if his speech writers/prep staff are partly to blame. I don't know. But he wasn't on fire for the Democratic Convention either. Get over it. There's just a little bit at stake here.

[BullDog]

I thought President Obama would play it conservative but also expected him to do much better than he did. It makes me nervous because of the high stakes of the election, as Martina said. He seems to be back on track, at least on his stump speeches. There may be some people who tuned in and got what they needed from Romney to decide to vote for him, but is it enough to win the election for him? I don't think so, but yes it makes me nervous.

Romney lied through his teeth and yep I think he got short-term gain out of it, but the lies will come back to bite him.

I am also wondering about the Big Bird effect. The conservatives have been trying to get rid of public television since the days of Nixon. I think that was Romney throwing the far right a bone. But it isn't going to play too well with parents and others who care about children. I have read in several places that where his 47% remarks hurt him the most in swing states was among working class/lower income women. I think his Big Bird remarks just reinforces how out of touch he is and doesn't understand regular people.

The conservative meltdown over the unemployment rate yesterday was fun to watch. Seriously, how the Republican party has any shred of credibility left is beyond me. Mitt now says what he said about the 47% was completely wrong. Yeah 17 days after the tape is released the new Moderate Mitt admits he was wrong. Ho hum. Anyway, I am not seeing much out of the Romney camp following the debate that shows further momentum to me. I will be watching the polls that come out next week.

I don't know if it will have a lot of impact on the election, but I am looking forward to the Biden-Ryan debate. I don't think Biden will let Ryan hide from his budget or continue to give lame excuses why he can't give details on the Romney tax plan because he doesn't have time or the math is too complicated or that people will be bored. It should be interesting. Biden does make gaffes from time to time, but he knows his stuff and is extremely loyal to the President. I am not so sure Ryan is that loyal to Romney. He is young and hoping for a long successful career. His views are quite extreme, and I don't know if he is as good at dancing around the issues and flat out lying the way Romney is.

[Martina]

I have read in several places that where his 47% remarks hurt him the most in swing states was among working class/lower income women.

So far the debates haven't given Romney much of a bump in the polls except on the specific issue of caring about the middle class. He got a huge bump on that issue. :|

Totally agree re Big Bird and interesting point re Ryan's loyalty. I am looking forward to Biden on fire. Even if he fumbles a time or two, he's going to be FUN to watch.

[Martina]

Obama is on the tail end of the baby boomer generation and beginning of Gen X. God knows boomers are self-indulgent and whiny (*points to self*). But I am sorry. You get over that in extremis. On the battlefield. On call for three nights in a row in a surgical rotation. You get tough. I am sure that the President has toughened up. But I can't imagine Hillary succumbing to a mood when a big event was coming up. I can imagine her being irritable, but she would rise to the fucking occasion.

[Kätzchen]

I am so appreciative of the commentary that members here make about issues arising from the Democratic and Republican campaigns for US presidency. I especially appreciate Bulldog and Martina’s perspective and often find myself utilizing the way they filter the political process via their own unique system of filtering the latest and ongoing political events.

I came across Martina’s post in another forum thread on the 2012 election. Martina found three articles and of those three, the article published in The New Yorker – “Transaction Man: Mormonism, private equity, and the making of a candidate” – was very interesting read in that author, Nicholas Lemann, epitomized Mormon culture to a T. Lemann’s October 1st literary pièce de résistance was framed as a 4-part orchestral arrangement to the tune of: Church, Business, Politics, and The Rescuer (Link to article found, here (http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2012/10/01/121001fa_fact_lemann?currentPage=all))


As I read that article, I sat nodding my head in agreement with most of thematic tone and intent conveyed throughout the entire essay. When I got to the three final paragraphs, which describe in MBA lexicon how Romnean synaptic cells seem to not bond with the pubic in cerebral ways, the first thing I thought of was this: What is missing from this essay? Why did Lemann end his article with the synaptic allegory? Was he hoping to facilitate a synaptic hookup for Romney? And, at least 20 more questions came to mind that I cannot even give public utterance to except, do any of you remember that The New Yorker in the 2008 election coverage pressed political hot-buttons with their brand of satire (the front cover image of Obama dressed as a Muslim)??? Yeah, I doubt if they pull a stunt like that again, in light of what happened recently that cost a US ambassador his life and the lives of those caught in the cross-fire of the latest political upheaval in the Middle East.

This election is even more personal for me than the last one was. I grew up in a rural community where, at the time, Mormons comprised at least 90% of the population. The other 10% were comprised of German, Dutch, English and a small sampling of Irish and Scottish based households. The single most relative connection shared among all households was the idea that most familial structures were patrilineal by design; however, my family seemed to be the statistical troublemaker in that my mother’s lineage was of matrilineal design which often competed against the patrilineal structure internally as well as externally – a ‘Molotav cocktail’ (conflict of authority), as seen rather frequently in our household. Although my family was not Mormon, the school district that serviced my rural community was heavily proselytized by Mormons, so I totally get the socio-political cultural piece of Mormonism and what it means in terms of deep political connections to small and big business across the American landscape.

Since the first debate (and there’s one tonight, yes?) and ongoing press coverage of the presidential race, I find myself holding my breath and fine tuning my own filters by calling upon my large cache of life experience and academic achievements. One thing seems for certain, in the sea of political uncertainty over the past few weeks: There is a lot at stake in this presidential election. I appreciate the tremendous investment of time and energy Obama expends not only in his presidential campaign, but also in his brand of leadership.

[Martina]

this is the god's truth -- and it is funny too

Daily Show "You Broke Chris Matthews" segment

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-october-4-2012/democalypse-2012---o-bama--where-art-thou--pt--2

[DanieClarke]

hey romney is sucking more money from the conservatives so let him pretend to be back in the game so the other senators etc etc don't get any $

[ruffryder]

Obama was so poorly prepared or was that what he wanted everyone to see and think? Could it have helped him by letting Romney talk and talk and spew his spiel. Could it be Obama hasn't debated in 4 years and he actually wasn't prepared?

Perhaps Romney may have initially, with this first debate, won some of the independent votes and the votes of those sitting on the fence wondering where the hell to cast their vote with this torn up economy and who to put their faith in for the next 4 - 8 years.

While watching the debate and at first I thought, "Wow! Romney dude, you won that debate. You gave the American people what they wanted to hear and you were quite poised and confident." He came across well versed, prepared, and confident. What he is saying, I agree with and like. But now I'm thinking maybe Obama's campaign and those that assisted him with his debate wanted it to look that way. . Too good to be true for what Romney promises? Let's leave America wondering about this Romney character. Maybe that's why Obama tended to look like a deer in headlights or bored or like, "Shit, I may just hand over the Presidency and walk away like an animal with it's tail between it's legs." This worried me to see this in our Commanding Chief Officer. Both candidates wrote notes. Romney seemed to use his at the first debate and the President, well he seemed to tuck them away to discuss with his team later and perhaps save for another debate.

I believe all politicians tell people what they want to hear. I don't like the numbers of unemployment, the numbers of high prices and gasoline, the numbers of low wages, etc.. I do agree with Romney and that the main concern is getting people back to work, and not just minimum wage and part time jobs but real careers where there is training, incentives, and being able to live the American dream and not just paycheck to paycheck. I want to hear more about specifics on their plans.. I want to hear how they plan on creating new jobs. I want to hear how all this funding not used on war now will be used. I actually look forward to the next debates and seeing Romney spew more and Obama gaining confidence back with the American people. Some one on Face The Nation this morning said something in relation to that it didn't matter who won the debate, America wins! I think we are all ready for something to change in this economy and these candidates see that.

[Martina]

Looks like he got a bump. It still might go up another point or two, I heard. So it's a horse race.

[Medusa]

Biden is in full bulldog mode and is burning this motherfucker up right now.

Y'all watching?

[DMW]

Tell em the truth Joe. Don't let me down dammit. Say it and don't back down.
Stand Up JOE> Go Joe

[*Anya*]

Biden is wiping the floor with Ryan.

[julieisafemme]

Bill Maher tweeted "Hello 9-1-1? There's an old man beating a child on my tv."

[Medusa]

Ryan is making himself look like a snivelling, snorting asshole young kid who doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground.

Biden is busting his ass. Wholly.

[*Anya*]

Ryan is making himself look like a snivelling, snorting asshole young kid who doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground.

Biden is busting his ass. Wholly.

Uh, that's because Ryan doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground!

[DapperButch]

Yeehaw to the Delaware boy! Show them how it's done!

[Medusa]

Damn. I need a huge fucking cigarette after watching that.

Biden was succinct, passionate, smart and let none of that bullshit fly by. THAT is the kind of shit I want to see coming out of our Presidential team.

Now, let's sit back and wait for the left to holler that the debate was "fixed" and that the moderator was on Biden's side.

[princessbelle]

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh I loved it!!!! I'm so glad that Vice President Biden is on our team.

Medusa...i smoked enough cigarettes for both of us. I was walking the floor with a pom pom in one hand and a cigarette, or two, in the other.

I don't think that the republicans will admit defeat, though. Just because Ryan kept talking. Even though it was a load of bullshyt.

I do believe Biden won for sure. He did make Ryan look silly at times. Especially with Afghanistan. I don't think Ryan has a clue. He's a politician though. A good one. He talks in circles.

I just hope and pray the undecided see through the rhetoric of what Ryan said which was full of holes and lies and ridiculous no-plan ideas.

*fingers crossed.

Extra prayer sent out there for the next Presidential debate. Come on President Obama, we need you to keep this energy going..... WE NEED YOU TO SHINE!!!!!!

[BullDog]

Malarkey

Word!

Way to go Joe!

[*Anya*]

Now, let's sit back and wait for the left to holler that the debate was "fixed" and that the moderator was on Biden's side.

I believe you meant the right will be whining about a fix.

I can just hear Fox News right now.

If I could actually stomach listening to Fox, that is.

[~ocean]

Ryan got lucky .. he just got a crash course in foreign affairs by Biden .. ** wipes Ryan behinde his ears ** ..enough said... ~

[julieisafemme]

My favorite part was when Joe Biden said he would not legislate my womb because he is a practicing Catholic. That is the kind of politician I want in the White House.

[DMW]

Dear GOP...don't tell me that you care about the economy...and don't mention 8% unemployment or Greece....
The GOP house blocking the debt ceiling...refusing to raise it..caused the gridlock that destroyed our credit rating and hurt the whole country...seriously...Biden should have talked about this one when Ryan tried to say cares about the middle class or that
he desires a congress that works with one another. Dude is a little anti-christ like Cantor..
Such a joy for me to help oust Santorum in PA.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/15/senate-republicans-debt-ceiling-fight_n_1519561.html
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/07/gao-debt-limit-fight-billion.php#more

I hope that they come out with facts upon facts upon facts to catch that flip flopper at the next debate. Spew the facts.

Agreed...julieisafemme....separation of church and womb.

[Martina]

I am listening to it now online. I had a class tonight and couldn't watch it live.

Biden is doing great. :) Ryan is no slouch. And he's not lying globally about his record.
Martha Radditz is doing a good job, too. This is fun. :)

The other debate really was a travesty: Romney reinventing himself on the spot, Obama checked out, and the Jim Lehrer making a hash of moderating.

What a relief to hear a real debate. I was hearing the Twilight Zone music in the background after Debate 1.

[Corkey]

I was caught yelling at boy wonder.
Biden rawked and I loved his gestures and smiles when Lyan Ryan got going. Hey Ryan stay the F* out of women's wombs! Unless you want one then you can tell women that you do and what you can do with it. Jackass. he was clueless about international affairs as well.

[laruss]

I finally got to watch and I can't believe Ryan was chosen to run as Vice President. He is a child in that type of political ring. If your country votes Romney/Ryan I wish you the best of luck, as I think you will be f*cked.

Biden seemed to always correcting wrong information. Every time Ryan opened his mouth Biden was laughing at him and having to correct more lies that the Republicans are feeding the public.

Crazy ass politics.

[macele]

both sides make me so frustrated. who do you believe?!?! they all lie. and i'm not saying that i can't take a little bit of lying, that's what they do best, ... politics. i'm voting democrat. that's all i know. but mississippi hasn't put a democratic president in office, ... in umm forever.

last night when biden told ryan that it wasn't very long ago that ryan was asking him for the stimulus money, ... now ryan is calling that money wrong. that was funny lol. yeah buddy, you wanted it a little while back lol.

[Miss Scarlett]

Listening to Ryan reinforces my belief that there is a movement within the Republican Party to "bomb women back to the Stone Age." It seems they want to take away our rights and turn us into second class citizens at best. Abortion is not for me but that doesn't mean i don't support a woman's right to choose. It's MY body not the government's.

If Congress passes the proposed legislation that declares that life begins at the moment of conception and extends 14th Amendment rights to the unborn it can result in a firestorm...women who choose abortion could be charged with murder as could women who use certain methods of birth control. What would follow? If a woman miscarries could she be charged with some form of manslaughter?

These same politicians condemn the Taliban but the more i learn about their agenda and the more i think about it, the more convinced i am that they are nothing more than wolves in sheep's clothing and very dangerous ones at that.

[Corkey]

They are the Christian Taliban. There is no difference between them. I have saying,"your rights end at the beginning of my nose". Feel free to use at your discretion.

[princessbelle]

I sincerely hope that this is not offensive to anyone. I found it hysterical.

Rachel Maddow had a piece of this on her show.

Wanted to share....

QlwilbVYvUg

[Martina]

The usually entertaining Maureen Dowd on the VP Debate (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/14/opinion/sunday/an-irish-catholic-wake-up.html?hp). The parts I especially liked from her commentary:

An Irish Catholic Wake-Up
By MAUREEN DOWD

NOW you know what Thanksgiving with my family is like.

A donnybrook with Irish Catholic uncles and nephews interrupting one another, mocking one another, arguing over one another, bombastically denouncing every political opinion except their own as malarkey.

The loser of the vice-presidential debate was, of course, Barack Obama. In contrast to the pair on the undercard slugging it out, the president’s limp performance the other night was even more inexplicable and inexcusable. The president was no doubt warned not to sigh, but his entire demeanor was a sigh.

The fact that one diffident debate by the president could throw his whole race into crisis shows that nobody madly loves Obama anymore. With his aloof presidency, he shook off the deep attachments from 2008, and now his support lacks intensity.

Even if he comes out in the town-hall debate on Tuesday with Ben Affleck charm, he has a Mitt Romney problem. Will it be the real Obama or will he just be doing what the media suggest and the base demands?
. . .

If Obama needed Biden on the ticket to add a little humanity, Romney needed Ryan as “a modular conviction unit,” as one Obama adviser joked. Romney, a say-anything salesman used to buying whatever he wants, hired his ideology.

Ryan is a true believer, and that’s a little awkward now that Romney is making strides by showing that he truly believes nothing — running away from, rather than toward, the hard-right stances that won him the nomination.

“Convictions aren’t helpful at the moment,” said David Axelrod, the Obama strategist. “The game right now is to try to obfuscate. Romney’s audacity in the debate was in hiding their plans. And Ryan actually believes this stuff. He argued for a Social Security privatization plan so radical that even the Bush administration called it irresponsible.”

The 42-year-old Wisconsin congressman kept gulping water, and once, when Biden nailed Ryan for twice soliciting the very stimulus money he condemns, he may have actually gulped. Unlike Palin, who also had to cram before her debate, Ryan did not need to memorize chunks. He actually tried to learn about all the parts of the world he had never followed closely. On Afghanistan, he spouted so many obscure geographical references, from Zabul to Kunar to the treacherous eastern provinces, he sounded like Google maps.

. . . . .
(I knew Raddatz would be tough because I once saw her dress down a male clerk at a Marriott hotel in Saudi Arabia who told her that women were not allowed to use the gym.)

. . . . .
Biden also boxed Ryan into looking as though he wants to send more American troops to Afghanistan and to intervene in Syria, which isn’t so appealing to war-weary America.

Ronald Reagan knew how to bluster for peace. Neocons do not. When they run the show, threatening a war is followed by going to war and that is followed by bollixing up the war and that is followed by our troops’ dying at war and money-pit nation-building to end the war, and that is followed by economic disaster for America.

Amped to make up for all of Obama’s missed shots, Biden went on a one-minute scream-of-consciousness about the 47 percent cited by Romney as moochers, the 30 percent cited by Ryan as takers, Scranton, his parents, the Buffett rule, Social Security, veterans, the 47 percent again, Grover Norquist, the middle class, a fair shot, Wall Street vs. Main street, and $500 billion in additional tax cuts for 120,000 wealthy families. Practically in one breath. Whew.

Biden’s weakest moment was on Libya, where he stumbled as he claimed that the White House didn’t know about requests for more security for diplomats there. It is likely true that such an appeal never made it through the Foggy Bottom bureaucracy to the West Wing. But the vice president should have been prepared to answer questions about a blunder that has scuffed the administration’s national security luster.

. . . . .

Mittens has been doing better with women since the first debate. Raddatz didn’t dwell on women’s issues, which denied Biden a chance to home in on Ryan’s chillingly retro positions.

Ryan, who has long opposed abortion even in cases of rape and incest, said, “The policy of a Romney administration will be to oppose abortion with the exceptions for rape, incest and life of the mother.”

When Raddatz asked Ryan if those who believe abortion should remain legal should be worried if the Republican team wins, Ryan basically said yes.

“We don’t think that unelected judges should make this decision,” he said, though he and other Republicans for decades have pined for a Supreme Court that would overturn Roe v. Wade. He added, “People, through their elected representatives and reaching a consensus in society through the democratic process, should make this determination.”

Biden, for once, wasn’t smiling.

[Martina]

The New York Times

October 14, 2012
Obama’s Prep Session Goal: Don’t Repeat Mistakes of Last Debate (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/15/us/politics/a-serious-debate-prep-session-for-obama.html)
By HELENE COOPER

WILLIAMSBURG, Va. — To prepare for the second round of the presidential debates, President Obama retreated here this weekend — to the environs of this historic village where actors in 18th century garb wander about spouting off in colonial diction.

But as Mr. Obama huddled with close aides on the spectacular resort grounds of what was the Kingsmill Plantation in the 17th century, the history that dominated his presidential study sessions was of a far more recent kind: how not to repeat the mistakes he made at his first debate with Mitt Romney a week and a half ago, when he stood by passively as an aggressive Mr. Romney dominated him, abruptly curtailing Mr. Obama’s momentum and turning the campaign upside down.

The president and his aides were clearly taking debate prep far more seriously this time around. Mr. Obama has scheduled more time, and his aides say that they will try to keep interruptions to a minimum. He is on a resort with not one, but three, golf courses, but he did not bring his clubs and had no plans to hit the links. There will not be any visits to historic sites (he was criticized for going to the Hoover Dam when he was supposed to be studying for the last debate, in Denver); his sole off-campus excursion on Sunday took only half an hour. It was to a campaign field office here where he made a few phone calls to volunteers, delivered pizza to staff members, and pronounced his debate prep as “going great” in answer to a shouted question from a reporter.

Incongruously, a Ferrari convention was taking place at the president’s James River resort — called “Ferraris on the James.” The cars, which glided to the river — in clear view of the main building where Mr. Obama was doing his prep sessions — were accompanied by the ubiquitous Ferrari-owner types who stood around languidly, hands in the pockets of their crisply ironed slacks, while valet attendants peered at various undercarriages. No word on whether the president found it distracting.

This time, instead of focusing on the nuts and bolts of debate facts — no one thinks the president needs to bone up on American troop withdrawals from Afghanistan’s Korengal Valley, for instance — Mr. Obama is practicing how to challenge Mr. Romney, something he inexplicably shied away from in Denver on Oct. 3.

“This isn’t a guy who needs be grilled on facts,” one Obama aide said of the president. “What he needs to work on is stylistic.” Translation: how to accuse Mr. Romney of twisting the facts without seeming rude.

Mr. Obama watched his running mate, Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr., take on Representative Paul D. Ryan in the vice-presidential debate on Thursday night, and Mr. Biden is widely viewed as having done a far better job than his boss. Mr. Obama’s aides were at Mr. Biden’s prep sessions, so presumably they picked up pointers.

Mr. Obama watched the vice-presidential debate aboard Air Force One flying back to Washington from Miami, where he had appeared at a campaign rally. He huddled with six aides in the conference room aboard the plane to watch Mr. Biden interrupt Mr. Ryan, grin constantly to convey disbelief at Mr. Ryan’s assertions, and twice call the congressman’s presentation of facts “malarkey.”

“That was pretty good!” Mr. Obama said again and again at Mr. Biden’s zingers, according to one aide in the room with the president. After landing at Joint Base Andrews in Maryland after the debate, Mr. Obama broke with tradition and approached reporters gathered under the wing of Air Force One to say he was proud of his running mate’s performance.

He could not say that about his own performance the week before, though.

“He knew when he walked off that stage, and he also knew as he watched the tape of that debate, that he has to be more energetic,” Robert Gibbs, an Obama adviser, said on CNN’s “State of the Union.” This time around, Mr. Gibbs said, “I think you’ll see somebody who is very passionate about the choice that our country faces.”

The president’s aides say that Mr. Obama, who is fiercely competitive about everything from basketball to golf to Taboo games with his daughters, is now viewing Tuesday’s debate at Hofstra University on Long Island as a chance for him, with his back against the wall, to come out swinging against Mr. Romney. But he must also try not to appear desperate and must take into account the different format of the next debate, which will be town-hall style, with questions coming from people in the audience. So during the debate sessions, Mr. Obama is working on how to answer questions posed by the audience in a respectful way, while still drawing contrasts.

Another major unknown is the degree to which the moderator, Candy Crowley, of CNN, asks follow-up questions. At the first presidential debate, Jim Lehrer of PBS did not ask many follow-up questions, while ABC’s Martha Raddatz did during the vice-presidential debate.

During Mr. Obama’s prep sessions here, aides have played the part of Hofstra audience members, asking questions that range from the investigation into the attack on the United States Mission in Benghazi, Libya, to Iran’s nuclear program to the debate on how to rein in the deficit. Senator John Kerry, a k a Mr. Romney during prep sessions, has been spotted eating pizza and walking around the grounds of the resort with a thick binder filled with color-coded spacers.

The Obama adviser David Axelrod, cellphone permanently attached to his ear, is here, as are other advisers, including Ron Klain, Anita Dunn — who is playing the part of Ms. Crowley, the moderator — and David Plouffe. To help on the foreign policy side, Ben Rhodes, a deputy on the National Security Council, and Marie Harf, a former Central Intelligence Agency spokeswoman turned campaign adviser, are on hand.

Unlike the last debate, where the focus was domestic policy, this debate will likely have a heavy foreign policy focus, and Mr. Romney is expected to go after Mr. Obama over the shifting White House story about the developments surrounding the attack in Benghazi, where four Americans, including Ambassador J. Christopher Stevens, were killed.

[Medusa]

I just watched some redux footage of the Fox News coverage of the Biden/Ryan debate where a bunch of the pundits at Fox news essentially tried to demonize Biden for laughing.

They called him "abusive", "aggressive", and "offensive" and then one of their little blond "anchors" went on some ridiculous rant about how "if Joe Biden wanted to lure in women voters, he just turned them off with his behavior" and something about how he wouldnt be part of their dating pool.

And then Sarah Palin's dumbass went on to talk about how he was a muskrat or something.

The icing on the cake? Their "Doctor" Keith Ablow actually suggested that Joe Biden might have dementia.

:|

Like, I am so utterly AGOG that people watch this crap and think that it is "news". From armchair diagnosis (which is ridiculously unprofessional) to some sexist notion from Blondie that women won't think it's sexy that Joe Biden has opinions that he can back up with facts.

I hope that President Obama comes in and wipes the floor with Romney. I do think that Obama has to walk a fine line of dignity so that ignorant people (like the ones at Fox) don't label him "angry black man", which I'm sure they will anyway, and so that he can make his points without getting too deep in the mud.

My fingers are crossed that we see his fire.

[The_Lady_Snow]

I hope Obama is strategic and no bullshit passes him by, it's a town hall kinda debate empathy and calm factual answers and better body language will be more pleasing to the "audience".

I could be wrong:|

[ruffryder]

I hope Obama is strategic and no bullshit passes him by, it's a town hall kinda debate empathy and calm factual answers and better body language will be more pleasing to the "audience".

I could be wrong:|

I agree. I keep hearing this debate may make or break him. Romney seems to be getting the lead in more states and it is due to the debates.

[ruffryder]

I think people would rather hear (the debates and candidates) than to just listen to the BS commercials to decide who to vote for. I could be wrong too. . but for me it's true.

[ruffryder]

Does anyone know if they will be broadcasting the debates a second time or just one live time?

[The_Lady_Snow]

I agree. I keep hearing this debate may make or break him. Romney seems to be getting the lead in more states and it is due to the debates.

The repugz are working and relying on their fear instilling tactics. The older generation still can be made to panic with the mere mention of Cuba, missiles, Russia, (China).

It's been interesting how RIDICULOUS the political adds are here (The South), they are filled with this eerie gloom and doom that is not even FACTUAL.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Does anyone know if they will be broadcasting the debates a second time or just one live time?


If you have Hulu you can watch them after on there.

[Martina]

Probably most major news sites will be posting it online. I watched the Veep debate after the fact.

I agree with Snow that the President's skills are better suited for this format.

[BullDog]

I hope Obama is strategic and no bullshit passes him by, it's a town hall kinda debate empathy and calm factual answers and better body language will be more pleasing to the "audience".

I could be wrong:|

Yes I agree with this. I would hope that is what would be pleasing to the audience, and it is what Obama is good at. He remains calm in the storm and can make tough decisions with a cool head. That is one of the things he is great at. We don't need bluff and blunder.

I think Obama needs to spend more time on making the case of how he can keep moving the country forward. Don't let the bullshit pass by, but at the same time focus more on what he can do and has done.

I really wonder if Romney can pull off looking empathetic. I am sure he is practicing real hard. I just want to see one glimmer when a regular person asks him a question and it is obvious he has no clue what the person is talking about.

[Martina]

I'd be surprised if Romney screwed up, but he did make the Big Bird gaffe. I am not sure if that hurt him, but that's the kind of thing that happens when he talks off the cuff.

[ruffryder]

I'd be surprised if Romney screwed up, but he did make the Big Bird gaffe. I am not sure if that hurt him, but that's the kind of thing that happens when he talks off the cuff.

yeah I'm not so sure Big Bird hurt him. Some think there is better things to talk about rather than Big Bird.. although we all love Big Bird!

[Corkey]

http://www.unitedwisconsin.com/watch-the-presidential-debate-here

Here's a link for those who are cableless.

[Greyson]

Taking my seat ringside. I hope the President will appear more enthusiastic about wanting to be re-elected and not allow Romney to get away with untruths without any sort of rebuff, challenge and clarification.

[Semantics]

It would be nice to hear something about poverty, housing, LGBTQ issues, or climate change tonight. It's asking a lot, I know.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Oh he was so close to going cray cray...

[Medusa]

Mitt Romney needs to sit his ass down and shut up when Candy Crowley is talking. He is using bullyish tactics and I wish to JEEBUS they would cut his damn mic off!!@

[Random]

OMG...

If I stroke out over this debate, I just want to say that I have enjoyed everyone...


OMG... I'll crack down on CHINA

Sensata anyone? Mitt's going to profit from the selling of an american company to China...

My head hurts...

[Medusa]

"Governor Romeny, you are the last person who is going to get tough on China." - MY PRESIDENT, Barack Obama

[Random]

Ummm so...

HE WASN'T IN OFFICE... HE DIDN'T LOSE THE JOBS...

oh god...

Regan... really?

[Reader]

Romney is like a sleazy used car dealer. If this sob wins or the Repubs steal the election -AGAIN- for him, we are so f*cked.

This billionaire doesn't even know what a gallon of milk costs let alone CARE about it. He certainly can't relate to the little guy's problems and he sure doesn't care. "47%" to him is really the 98%.

This guy wants elevators for his cars and the shaft for workers.

Anyone who votes for this guy deserves what they get.

The guy who "harvests" businesses and off-shores jobs is suddenly going to help farmers, vets and women?

Will the sheep will vote for the smarmy butcher?

[The_Lady_Snow]

If I get sent back just know I loved you all.

:|<- resident alien

[Martina]

Romney is being very effective. The President is too, but Romney is excellent.

Romney's speechwriters deserve some credit. Get a green card stapled to your diploma? Good stuff.

[UofMfan]

If I get sent back just know I loved you all.

:|<- resident alien



No human being is ILLEGAL, they are undocumented.


The debate is highly upsetting when they are playing by two different sets of rules. Romney the bully!

[Medusa]

Did President Obama say "gangbangers"?

[Martina]

OMG he is lying like a rug re his self-deportation comment.

[girl_dee]

http://www.unitedwisconsin.com/watch-the-presidential-debate-here

Here's a link for those who are cableless.

Thank you! TV - less here!

[girl_dee]

Look at all them gray hairs on our President!

[Medusa]

Romney's bullshit of talking over the Moderator and talking over President Obama is just absolutely the most ridiculously bullyish and PRIVILEGED behavior that I have ever witnessed in a debate format.

I wish a deranged, rabid gorilla would run up on the stage and bite his damn face off.

[Martina]

The President just kicked us in that last scuffle. AND his face is animated. Lively.

But stop reducing everything to growth. EVERYTHING is not about growth. Get fucking human.

[gaea]

well John Q Middleclass pays for everything and we will continue to do so.....all the donations romney makes we ultimately pay for...

I would like to stab my ears when romney speaks....

However obama isn't really doing much better.....

[Reader]

Romney is street-fighting while Bam is debating and getting a bloody nose.

Bam is losing, sorry to say.

[Angeltoes]

Romney is street-fighting while Bam is debating and getting a bloody nose.

Bam is losing, sorry to say.
Bam can lose the debate, I'm voting for him either way.

[Martina]

Romney just looked like a dithering idiot re Benghazi -- even though he was not wrong.

It also took Candy's assist. But it's still a nice moment. Clearly Obama enjoyed it too, which was good to see.

Obama does have taste for blood.

[Medusa]

Holy Crap. President Obama's face when he told Romney to "continue...".

:|

That was cold rage.

[Scuba]

Mitt needs a better hairstylist...his head looks lopsided :| I can't seem to focus on what he's saying because of his hair :|

[princessbelle]

OH i'm walking the floor, as usual during debates. At this point, i totally think President Obama is winning this debate. For one simple fact....HES TELLING THE TRUTH.

Problem being i'm afraid peeps won't KNOW it.

BUT, the President is doing wayy better this time. He's articulate and calling Romney out on a lot.

So far...i'm VERY happy.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Mitt's answer- marry teenagers:|

[UofMfan]

Bam? Wow, ok.

I personally like to refer to the President by his proper name, it shows the respect that a President has earned.

I think Candy is doing a good job, in spite of Romney's insistence on trying to bully, which he does so well.

I think President Obama is winning, not only with the facts, but he finally showed some passion regarding the attack on the American Embassy in Libya.

[girl_dee]

blah blah blahhhh blahdy blah!

[Scuba]

The reason Canada can afford tax breaks to businesses is because they're not spending all of their money on pointless wars and their military. We'd have money too if that were the case...

[girl_dee]

The reason Canada can afford tax breaks to businesses is because they're not spending all of their money on pointless wars and their military. We'd have money too if that were the case...

and please don't forget In Canada the money is spent on the CITIZENS.. Healthcare and good schools!

[Scuba]

and please don't forget In Canada the money is spent on the CITIZENS.. Healthcare and good schools!

Exactly...

[Reader]

Bam keeps losing each battle. Hope he can still win the war. Damn.

[Nomad]

i'm fascinated by Romney's comment that we should be trying to "convince 2 people that they ought to get married before they have a baby."

no comment on the fact that women have to scrape tooth and nail to get birth control covered by their health insurance policy while Viagra and Cialis are routinely available to men.

no mention that Obama care (which Mitt loves to hate) is freakishly similar to the Romney care currently available in MA.

no mention about the people who dont have the right to legally marry before having children

and many sincere kudos to Obama for being man enough to say "yours is bigger than mine".

i predict that last comment will be the favorite phrase of the 2012 election season wind down. i think i'll find a reason to say it every day.

[Semantics]

Bam? Wow, ok.

I personally like to refer to the President by his proper name, it shows the respect that a President has earned.

I think Candy is doing a good job, in spite of Romney's insistence on trying to bully, which he does so well.

I think President Obama is winning, not only with the facts, but he finally showed some passion regarding the attack on the American Embassy in Libya.

I agree that he's winning.

He's done well at countering Romney, which he neglected to do last time, and Romney's getting flustered.

Romney's also making an ass out of himself by interrupting, using words like "illegals", and talking about his binders full of women that need to get home by five pm to cook dinner :|

[princessbelle]

Bam keeps losing each battle. Hope he can still win the war. Damn.


Are you talking about President Obama? Who is Bam?

If that is who you are talking about....i disagree. I think he did wonderful and gave truthful answers.

I totally think he kicked ass tonight.

[girl_dee]

Bam keeps losing each battle. Hope he can still win the war. Damn.

i'm thrown that you keep calling him *Bam* and i'm not seeing him losing this, every time Romney speaks it wreaks of gross and pathetic privilege bullshit to me.

[Nomad]

he was a missionary so he should be president?

he "saved the Olympics" so he should be president?

he cares about 100% of the citizenry (a proven lie given his opinion of 47% of voters who consider themselves "victims") so he should be president?

he believes in G*d so he should be president?

he wants people to have access to citizenship through military service despite the fact that he didnt serve so he should be president?

:seeingstars:

really?

i might also have to start quoting Romney by saying that i have "binders full of women". along with "yours is bigger than mine", i think i've got the makings of a real conversation starter.

Obama = presidential boot shoved clear up a privileged ass

Romney = epic fail

[Fatale]

Hallefuckinglujah! President Obama is coming back. He's making salient points, he has passion, he's personable, charismatic and engaging. I am so relieved.


Romney, I want to punch him in the neck.

[Martina]

I agree that Romney is doing well and that the President lost some good opportunities. But I bet it will poll at a draw or close to it, perhaps with Romney having the edge.

I lost my feed at the very end. :(

[princessbelle]

I agree that Romney is doing well and that the President lost some good opportunities. But I bet it will poll at a draw or close to it, perhaps with Romney having the edge.

I lost my feed at the very end. :(

Ohhhhhhhhhh Martina...go find it on the webs!!!! It was an awesome close by the President!!!!!

[grenade]

he "saved the Olympics" so he should be president?



this made me chuckle. :)

[Gráinne]

He killed Romney on the 47% at the end. This was possibly Obama's best debate going back to 2008.

[Nomad]

SNIP


Romney, I want to punch him in the neck.

i'll hold your purse

[Martina]

I have got audio feed of MSNBC and Chris Matthews says Obama prevailed. I hope he's right.

Rachel said it was the best debate of the President's career.

Anyway, whew. The man showed up. So relieved.

[Scuba]

Hallefuckinglujah! President Obama is coming back. He's making salient points, he has passion, he's personable, charismatic and engaging. I am so relieved.


Romney, I want to punch him in the neck.

i'll hold your purse

I'd like to watch this... **cracking up**

[Fatale]

i'll hold your purse


Thanks! Oh my god, he irks me to no end. I cannot express the depth of my chagrin that he was the Governor of my state for four years. I still cannot quite wrap my mind about that.

I think Romney has shot himself in the foot in his mouth tonight. Do you suppose he puts masking tape on his sideburns when he colors his hair?

Now, who's holding my shoes?

[Martina]

DAMN. I wish I had not missed that last minute or so. He brought up the 47 percent? Good for the President.

[Nomad]

Thanks! Oh my god, he irks me to no end. I cannot express the depth of my chagrin that he was the Governor of my state for four years. I still cannot quite wrap my mind about that.

I think Romney has shot himself in the foot in his mouth tonight. Do you suppose he puts masking tape on his sideburns when he colors his hair?

Now, who's holding my shoes?


i've got 2 hands.

[Medusa]

They need to let Whoopi Goldberg moderate the next debate.

She'd sit Mitt down so quick his sideburns would fly off.

[Corkey]

The President KO'd Willards a@@! Booyah Oooooorah!

[Gráinne]

Romney's bullshit of talking over the Moderator and talking over President Obama is just absolutely the most ridiculously bullyish and PRIVILEGED behavior that I have ever witnessed in a debate format.

I wish a deranged, rabid gorilla would run up on the stage and bite his damn face off.

This has to be the best line in the history of BFP.

[Martina]

I wanted to see what Fox was saying, to see if they were jubilant. They are not. One guy said that it was about a draw with Romney doing better the first half and Obama better the second. So the whole thing -- he said -- was a draw with Obama having the edge.

I have to say that I thought Romney did better than that. But I am excited to see that Fox isn't excited. They're now bitching about Crowley's confirmation of Obama's point re Benghazi. :)

[Martina]

I thought Candy did well. Romney only ran over her once, and she sure got revenge when she confirmed Obama's point re Benghazi. That hurt Romney big time.

[Martina]

They need to let Whoopi Goldberg moderate the next debate.

She'd sit Mitt down so quick his sideburns would fly off.

He's afraid of Whoopi. He has said as much.

[Corkey]

I was in a chat on KickButtLiberals, we tore the bishop a new one.

[Martina]

CBS flash poll

37% Obama
33% Romney
30% Draw

[Corkey]

Polls are going to go up for the President
patience.

[Martina]

Polls are going to go up for the President
patience.

If the numbers stabilize and the ground game is good (getting out the vote), we got it.

[Martina]

"Binders full of women" is trending on twitter, etc. lol.

lol. It is funny. It didn't occur to me when he said it. But lol.

[Martina]

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/548575_10151249040996014_1324851547_n.jpg

[Greyson]

I have made up my mind, I am voting for the President. There is nothing Romney could say that would change my mind, because I do not trust Romney and I am always reluctant to vote for someone that brings their religion into their policy decisions, choosing judges, and making laws.

I think President Obama did a much better job and won the debate. However, I think the still undecided voter will be a harder audience to sway. I think they will see the debate as a draw.

[Medusa]

I tried to buy www.bindersfullofwomen.com only seconds after it was spoken and someone had already gotten to it!

[UofMfan]

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j269/translator08/HeyGirlBinder.jpg

[Corkey]

I tried to buy www.bindersfullofwomen.com only seconds after it was spoken and someone had already gotten to it!

check Rachel she does that a lot.

[Martina]

Two more polls show Obama won the debate if not resoundingly. Rachel was talking fast so I didn't get the info.

I thought Romney scored some big hits, like saying, "We don't have to live like this." I thought he won on style points, but I agree that on the issues, Obama was better.

Obama is handsome, and Romney can come off as a bit of a weasel. I forget how much that stuff matters.

ANyway, I am relieved.

[Martina]

OH yeah, and kudos to the much derided undecideds. They asked some excellent questions.

[Martina]

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/389550_481054775250561_850238318_n.jpg

[Leigh]

Those were some interesting debates; Go Obama Go :)

[always2late]

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/s320x320/224520_324007811031224_1082903755_n.jpg

[Martina]

http://www.slate.com/content/dam/slate/blogs/moneybox/2012/10/16/bad_ideas_in_obama_romney_town_hall_debate/154249376.jpg.CROP.rectangle3-large.jpg

[DapperButch]

http://www.slate.com/content/dam/slate/blogs/moneybox/2012/10/16/bad_ideas_in_obama_romney_town_hall_debate/154249376.jpg.CROP.rectangle3-large.jpg

I saw this picture, too. You can see the extent of his rage and almost deranged sense of competition in his eyes. It really gives me the creeps. I felt his disgust towards the President and overt disrespect throughout the debate. That is a very rageful man under the surface. The word privilege also doesn't even begin to describe his sense of himself.

[Daktari]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/oct/16/presidential-debate-issues?intcmp=239

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/oct/17/obama-debate-better-style-substance?intcmp=122

How the 'news'paper I read sees it.

[JustJo]

Personally, I think it's hysterical that Romney seems to think marriage is a solution to anything.

I was married to Rooster's father....and he's still a deadbeat. I turned him in to Child Support Enforcement 10 months ago, and exactly nothing has been done and I still haven't gotten a dime.

Thankfully, I have a good job with good benefits, and I don't need child support or anyone else to support Rooster....but not all mothers are so fortunate.

Just goes to show how priveleged and out of touch Romney is....sure, in his world if you're married and it breaks up, there's a giant settlement. In the real world, it may just mean that you're stuck with the asshole's bills.

And, yea.....I'm down with the rabid gorilla wish. I can't stand Romney, and Obama has my vote even if he sat down and knitted through the whole debate.

[Daktari]

http://bindersfullofwomen.com/

It's well worth the read.

[girl_dee]

Personally, I think it's hysterical that Romney seems to think marriage is a solution to anything.

I was married to Rooster's father....and he's still a deadbeat. I turned him in to Child Support Enforcement 10 months ago, and exactly nothing has been done and I still haven't gotten a dime.

Thankfully, I have a good job with good benefits, and I don't need child support or anyone else to support Rooster....but not all mothers are so fortunate.

Just goes to show how priveleged and out of touch Romney is....sure, in his world if you're married and it breaks up, there's a giant settlement. In the real world, it may just mean that you're stuck with the asshole's bills.

And, yea.....I'm down with the rabid gorilla wish. I can't stand Romney, and Obama has my vote even if he sat down and knitted through the whole debate.

i want to ask him if he realizes that there are married couples who live in poverty.

i know we did.

[The_Lady_Snow]

I'm going to speak from my Latina place, I'm disgusted and insulted each and every time Mittens brings up his "Mexican" references. What I mean by this is his continous reminder that his parents were born in Maxico.

I happen to be born there as well, he's not a Latino, Mexican, Catholic, culturally raised man. His father was born in Mexico cause they fled there. That's the only reason that Mittens can even let himself to use my people and country as ANY sort of reference. We may be simple folk, the folk who do jobs no one wants but we ain't stupid. He's an arrogant twit even to think that I'd be swooned by his ignorant references.

Phew I had to get that out:\

[Andrea]

I don't remember Romney's exact words but I felt his comments were condescending when he said women need "flexible" hours, etc. because they have families. Really? Men don't have families? Really?

[BullDog]

Romney doesn't support the Lily Ledbetter Act. He never answered the equal pay question. Who in their right mind thinks women should earn less than men?

[princessbelle]

I don't remember Romney's exact words but I felt his comments were condescending when he said women need "flexible" hours, etc. because they have families. Really? Men don't have families? Really?

This pissed me off too Andrea. So, to me, Romney is saying...sure hire women, lots of them, BUT make sure you are flexible and give them time off to go home and play with kids and make dinner and THEN they can come back and finish their "other" job.

REALLY? We (women) aren't capable of taking a job (career) of our choice with our OWN intellectual balance of what is needed in *our* lives?

No thanks Romney!!!! I don't need YOU to tell me to get off work at 4 and go home and cook then my world will be complete. *I* am totally complete without your patronizing view on women's place in society. All *I* need is for the Government to make sure women get a fair shake to PAY.

I worked full time, sometimes 3-11 shifts, raising my kids, without needing to be home to care for my kids at 4 and cook supper. Know why? Because i am INTELLIGENT enough to make sure my children's needs are met.

This is NOT the 1950s.

Get a freaking clue!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Gráinne]

I'm going to speak from my Latina place, I'm disgusted and insulted each and every time Mittens brings up his "Mexican" references. What I mean by this is his continous reminder that his parents were born in Maxico.

I happen to be born there as well, he's not a Latino, Mexican, Catholic, culturally raised man. His father was born in Mexico cause they fled there. That's the only reason that Mittens can even let himself to use my people and country as ANY sort of reference. We may be simple folk, the folk who do jobs no one wants but we ain't stupid. He's an arrogant twit even to think that I'd be swooned by his ignorant references.

Phew I had to get that out:\

I find the reference to be a cheap and patronizing ploy for the so-called Latino vote. But "Latino" isn't synonymous with "Mexican". In my own apartment complex, there are Mexicans, Puerto Ricans, Salvadoreans, and Cubans, among still other nations. All of those home countries have different cultures and intense pride in their own heritage. What I've found is that all of them resent the hell out of being tossed into a giant group together as if they're all the same,with the same issues and needs.

For Romney to insinuate that he understands the concerns and needs of "Latinos" because his ancestors were forced there is as ludicrous and offensive as if I made myself an expert on all Latinos because I went to Cancun.

[Medusa]

I sent this in last night:


Dear Mitt Romney,

Let me tell you about the American people.

American people, at least the vast majority of them, do not live the way you do.

They don't have elevators for their cars.

They don't have millions of dollars in off-shore accounts.

They don't have trust funds they can pull money out of when they are sick of eating tuna fish in college.

Their wives don't wear $8000 suits.

Most of all, they don't live in the stone age where "IF" women are going to be in the workforce.

Newsflash: There is no "if" with regard to women in the workforce. We're here and have been for a very long time. I know it's probably hard for you to understand because the women in your life have been Nannies and Cooks and Stepford Wives who are supposed to be seen and not heard.

I work hard every single day and the idea that you think that there is an "if" in the workforce that apparently doesn't deserve equal pay, the right to choose what to do with my body, or the right to marry my partner is not only grotesque and offensive but is probably the most blinding display of sexism and privilege that I've seen in the political arena ever.

I don't want you leading this country if this is what you stand for. I wouldn't even want you taking out my garbage if this is what you stand for. You, sir, are a cookie-cutter shadow of all of the old rich white men who have come before you who believe that pandering and lying are the way to get into office.

See, I don't live in a world where other people are "beneathe" me. You apparently do. Your vision of the world is not a shiny new adventure toward renewal as you paint it to be, it is the same tired stereotypically lazy concept that white men get to call the shots for everyone around them.

I'm not buying it. What I *am* doing, however, is hitting 'send' on this email to you and going straight over to the donation page for Barack Obama.
That's my money talking. The money I worked for. The money that you don't believe in protecting with the equal pay act.

Thanks,
Angie

[girl_dee]

I'm going to speak from my Latina place, I'm disgusted and insulted each and every time Mittens brings up his "Mexican" references. What I mean by this is his continous reminder that his parents were born in Maxico.

I happen to be born there as well, he's not a Latino, Mexican, Catholic, culturally raised man. His father was born in Mexico cause they fled there. That's the only reason that Mittens can even let himself to use my people and country as ANY sort of reference. We may be simple folk, the folk who do jobs no one wants but we ain't stupid. He's an arrogant twit even to think that I'd be swooned by his ignorant references.

Phew I had to get that out:\

Yes in the few minutes i listened in i heard *Mexican Drug Lords*... regarding illegal weapons!!!

[girl_dee]

I sent this in last night:


Dear Mitt Romney,

Let me tell you about the American people.

American people, at least the vast majority of them, do not live the way you do.

They don't have elevators for their cars.

They don't have millions of dollars in off-shore accounts.

They don't have trust funds they can pull money out of when they are sick of eating tuna fish in college.

Their wives don't wear $8000 suits.

Most of all, they don't live in the stone age where "IF" women are going to be in the workforce.

Newsflash: There is no "if" with regard to women in the workforce. We're here and have been for a very long time. I know it's probably hard for you to understand because the women in your life have been Nannies and Cooks and Stepford Wives who are supposed to be seen and not heard.

I work hard every single day and the idea that you think that there is an "if" in the workforce that apparently doesn't deserve equal pay, the right to choose what to do with my body, or the right to marry my partner is not only grotesque and offensive but is probably the most blinding display of sexism and privilege that I've seen in the political arena ever.

I don't want you leading this country if this is what you stand for. I wouldn't even want you taking out my garbage if this is what you stand for. You, sir, are a cookie-cutter shadow of all of the old rich white men who have come before you who believe that pandering and lying are the way to get into office.

See, I don't live in a world where other people are "beneathe" me. You apparently do. Your vision of the world is not a shiny new adventure toward renewal as you paint it to be, it is the same tired stereotypically lazy concept that white men get to call the shots for everyone around them.

I'm not buying it. What I *am* doing, however, is hitting 'send' on this email to you and going straight over to the donation page for Barack Obama.
That's my money talking. The money I worked for. The money that you don't believe in protecting with the equal pay act.

Thanks,
Angie

i just felt a little tingle.........

[Gráinne]

Angie, I nominate you as one of my favorite people ever.

I don't think I've spent anywhere close to $8000 on clothes in thirty years. I hyperventilate if I have to buy a $200 suit.

I may not have agreed with the President in everything he's done (or not done), but at least he's living on the same damn planet.

[dreadgeek]

I posted this on my Facebook wall last night and I'm going to repost it here:

If you are forming a band and are looking for a name, Binders Full of Women. You're welcome.

Cheers
Aj

[QueenofSmirks]

I'm going to speak from my Latina place, I'm disgusted and insulted each and every time Mittens brings up his "Mexican" references. What I mean by this is his continous reminder that his parents were born in Maxico.

I happen to be born there as well, he's not a Latino, Mexican, Catholic, culturally raised man. His father was born in Mexico cause they fled there. That's the only reason that Mittens can even let himself to use my people and country as ANY sort of reference. We may be simple folk, the folk who do jobs no one wants but we ain't stupid. He's an arrogant twit even to think that I'd be swooned by his ignorant references.

Phew I had to get that out:\

I posted something similar on Facebook after I heard he was running an ad where his son (?) does the ad in Spanish, to "reach the Latino vote". My reaction was: Are you freakin' kidding me??? His family FLED to Mexico to avoid persecution for practicing polygamy which is illegal in the U.S.! That hardly qualifies them as "Mexicans". To add insult to injury, look at his stance on immigration!! To say he sympathizes because his family are/were immigrants is bullshit.

[dreadgeek]

My other post from FB last night:

Dear Mittens;

Here are the President's words, verbatim, from the Rose Garden:

"No acts of terror will ever shake the resolve of this great nation, alter that character, or eclipse the light of the values that we stand for."

Best,
A Citizen

I *loved* that look that Obama gave Romney after Romney all but said that the President did not care about the people who were killed in Libya and took a swipe at Mr. Obama's very genuine taking on the responsibility. I think that had it *not* been live on TV, he would have gone across the stage at Romney exclaiming "okay motherf---er I'm going to kick your butt up and down this stage...tell *me* I don't care about people I put in harm's way!"

[Kätzchen]

Yesterday, at the train station platform, a homeless black man had a carton of blackberry pies on hand in exchange for a bus pass for the day, if he could get one. I loved the ingenuity behind exchanging something of value for something he needed dearly - a paid bus ticket so he could get to work on time. I was done for the day (it was early afternoon) and traded my paid bus pass for the day (a five dollar pass) for a berry pie.

He then asked me if I was voting for Romney while trying to ask me for part of the tacos I had in my possession (the supper Eddie wanted me to get for him that he paid for by dropping funds into my account) and I looked at him and said: "No, I'm not giving you my son's supper nor am I voting for Romney and if Romney becomes president, you'll witness a nuclear explosion unheard of in this neighborhood. I'm fresh out of gaskets to blow. I am voting for President Obama: No. One. Deserves. My. Vote. Other. Than. Obama" (Served with a Femme Death Stare).


My hope is that Michelle Obama runs for President in 2016.

[ruffryder]

Holy Crap. President Obama's face when he told Romney to "continue...".

:|

That was cold rage.

I for one am tired of hearing about the attack in Libya. Of course it was an act of terror. No one needs to say anything about that. We all know this. Americans are targeted whether we are in or out of our own country. Whether they are targeted in or out of our country it is an act of terrorism when it is aimed at the Americans. It was very bold of Hillary Clinton to take the blame and responsibility for what happened. All of our leaders should. All of them. . I think Obama is just tired of hearing about it and getting all the rage and blame from it. He just needs to take responsibility as Clinton has, admit a mistake and assure the Americans it won't happen again. Yeah it's difficult to take care of every single American especially when they are in other countries but there are steps one can take to assure that they can be safe.


"Governor Romeny, you are the last person who is going to get tough on China." - MY PRESIDENT, Barack Obama

As for China and anyone getting tough on them. I think no President is about to get tough on China. We need them and want a defense relationship with them. They are a powerhouse and we need that global security. They provide military assets and resources for us. We like it that way to counter Russia and Iran. Ever since the bombing of Pearl Harbor we have been on the Chinese side. The United States has poured a great amount of aid to help the Chinese, vice versa, and it hasn't changed much since. We need to keep partner with China. They are a global economic power and we have increased trade with them over the years. Obama hasn't gotten tough with them and I don't see it happening with any one.

My concern with the upcoming Presidency is more with the American economy, jobs, healthcare, education, etc.. and I wish someone would step up and not just debate this but actually provide some relief and solutions to help us Americans here at home.

http://ltncdn.livetradingnews.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/257b3c8b9d96-94b8-4872-a21d-a0ee436c904a257d.gif

[Corkey]

http://www.slate.com/content/dam/slate/blogs/moneybox/2012/10/16/bad_ideas_in_obama_romney_town_hall_debate/154249376.jpg.CROP.rectangle3-large.jpg

To me this said it all. The man has no morals, is a pathological liar, racist, sexist, pandering privileged patriarchal psychopath. I think I may have left a few adjectives out but you get my drift.

[dreadgeek]

I for one am tired of hearing about the attack in Libya. Of course it was an act of terror. No one needs to say anything about that. We all know this. Americans are targeted whether we are in or out of our own country. Whether they are targeted in or out of our country it is an act of terrorism when it is aimed at the Americans. It was very bold of Hillary Clinton to take the blame and responsibility for what happened. All of our leaders should. All of them. . I think Obama is just tired of hearing about it and getting all the rage and blame from it. He just needs to take responsibility as Clinton has, admit a mistake and assure the Americans it won't happen again. Yeah it's difficult to take care of every single American especially when they are in other countries but there are steps one can take to assure that they can be safe.

For the record, Obama has taken responsibility. He did that last night. "I'm the President. I'm always responsible." Those were his words last night.


As for China and anyone getting tough on them. I think no President is about to get tough on China.

This is absolutely true. No President is going to 'get tough' with China.


We need them and want a defense relationship with them.

This I'm not so sure of. We certainly don't behave as if we want a defense relationship with them. We don't perform joint military exercises like we do with Japan and South Korea. I think that the military leadership of *both* nations are concerned that, eventually, they are going to have a conflict over Taiwan.


They are a powerhouse and we need that global security. They provide military assets and resources for us.

What assets and resources? I like to think I keep up on these matters and I certainly have a go-to person who is a military historian who I *know* keeps up on them and neither I nor my friend could come up with any instances of the Chinese providing either military assets or resources in the way that, say, the British do.


We like it that way to counter Russia and Iran. Ever since the bombing of Pearl Harbor we have been on the Chinese side.

Ummm, no we haven't. After Mao came to power in 1949 we pretty much broke off contact with China until, I believe, 1972 when Nixon went to China. It is not for nothing that we have that saying "Only Nixon could go to China". We have probably had a less hostile relationship with China than with any other Communist country save, perhaps, Hungary but I would not say we have been on China's side since before the Maoist revolution.


The United States has poured a great amount of aid to help the Chinese, vice versa, and it hasn't changed much since.

Outside of humanitarian relief, I'm not sure how much aid the US has given to China. What aid have the Chinese given us? Again, I can't think of any. Trade isn't aid.

Cheers
Aj

[*Anya*]

It forever blows my mind that out of all the Republicans in this country, Romney is the best that they could come up with to run for president.

Abraham Lincoln must turn over in his grave 10 times per day to see what has been made of his party.

Pissed me off this morning on my drive to work, the guy doing the news for KRock in LA, 106.7, gave the most recent poll results and kept calling President Obama, Mr. Obama.

WTF.

[ruffryder]

Yes, finally Obama has taken responsiblity. That's all he had to do. As soon as Clinton did, everyone dropped the subject of Libya except Romney who keeps wanting to bring it up. No leader should lie or cover up a mess, but more importantly step up, acknowledge, and take responsibility for outcomes and things happening under their control. This upsets me the most right now with the debates from both candidates and the "real" numbers of unemployment, jobs created, taxes on Americans, etc..

China does provide us with monetary resources.. some of our debt is contributed to China and the human rights we are trying to help them achieve. There is one China and it includes Taiwan according to the U.S. Taiwan has purchased billions in arms from the U.S. under Bush and China protested it suspending military contacts, but that's where we need them on board with us and recently in 09 China resumed military contact again.

My point is just that I'm more concerned with our American's struggling here and I don't see anyone getting tough on China and why would that even matter or help our issues we are having now. Besides, I may wonder where are these billions from arms are that are being sold to multiple countries and where is that being allocated to.

I beg to differ that trade is not aid. If we have Made in China stuff in the American stores how is that not aid.. American Jobs going out to China, fund going to China to help them with human rights when ours are not up to par, etc..

Again, the point I'm making is this is maybe a bit of a concern for me considering the debt and trade equality and keeping jobs in the U.S., however China is not gonna assist us with that besides maybe sending some debt relief and adding to it only to be used on other things and not what America needs right now to get back on track with the middle class and poverty numbers.

[ruffryder]

all because of single moms.

CNN.com - U.S. violent crime up for first time in years

Crime rates had been dropping steadily for nearly two decades, but recent statistics show that the increase pushed up the overall rate for violent crime for the first time since 1993. Are you surprised?


I think Obama gained some more support from women again with that whole Binder thing..

[Martina]

Re us and China, the Korean War was a bump in the road. My dad was in the airforce and tells stories of running from Chinese troops as they over-ran his airport during a "human wave" attack.

At dinner I was reading an article in the Economist that said that China thinks our good relationship with Myanmar -- thanks to Hillary -- is an effort to threaten their hegemony in the region. They def don't see us as their buddy.

-----

re single parenting and poverty, it is kind of ironic that Romney was standing right next to someone raised by a financially struggling single mother. One of her kids became a professor and the other got even a better job.

[always2late]

Ok...this link isn't technically about the debate...but the reviews are hysterically funny!
http://www.amazon.com/Avery-Durable-Binder-EZ-Turn-17032/product-reviews/B001B0CTMU/ref=cm_cr_pr_top_recent?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=0&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending

[Martina]

http://media.cnbc.com/i/CNBC/Sections/News_And_Analysis/__Story_Inserts/graphics/__HUMOR/_B/binder-humor-01-300.jpg

[Martina]

Romney was funnier at the Al Smith dinner. I thought anyway. His jokes were funny. He delivered them well. He meant the serious things he said (for once).

One thing he knows how to do is win. He's talented in his way. And just so determined. I can't help but admire him as a competitor. Just please, higher power, do not let the man win this thing.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Obama joke from the Al Smith dinner ---

The President said: 'This is the third time that Gov. Romney and I have met recently. As some of you may have noticed, I had a lot more energy in our second debate. I felt really well-rested after the nice, long nap I had in the first debate.'


Another one that gave me a chuckle --
"I particularly want to apologize to Chris Matthews," he said, as the MSNBC host was among the guests. "Four years ago I gave him a thrill up his leg, this time around I gave him a stroke."

[Corkey]

yea but unlike Robme Obama can be self deprecating and do it with such grace. Robme could never do that his ego prevents it.

[Martina]

I don't know. He had his moments. I do not want Romney as my President. But as a human being, he has some true strengths. One of them is his tendency to win. He is one of those people who makes it happen for himself. I do not always like that. But I admire it. It's a quality that many better men lack. It's a scary trait for him to have at this moment. Fortunately, the President has a lot of it too. Plus better media consultants and just as much money to spend.

[ruffryder]

I think the next debates on Monday are about Foreign policy.



I don't know how to take this. :(


750,000 more women unemployed since Obama took office.
.. and the number one issue for women is free birth control.

how can we even begin to talk about equal pay for women when we are all struggling for a damn job.

[Toughy]

I think the next debates on Monday are about Foreign policy.



I don't know how to take this. :(


750,000 more women unemployed since Obama took office.
.. and the number one issue for women is free birth control.

how can we even begin to talk about equal pay for women when we are all struggling for a damn job.



ever hear of multi-tasking, especially when the tasks are pretty solidly linked....a women's economic capability and freedom entirely depends on how many crumb snatchers she will have responsibility for...Remember in the debate Romney said since mothers were going to work for him then he had to give them flex hours so they can take care of the wee ones....and for less pay but he did not outright say that.

The BIGGEST hinder is the fact men don't do 'womens work'................cooking bathing feeding all the mouths at the table. then the rest of the housework and finally the outside the home job...............

I haven't done the fact checking on the 750000 number however my inclination is the numbers are manipulated...........

[Kobi]

The facts:

The Romney statement would imply that between January 2009 (when Obama took office) and September 2012 (the most recent month for which we have statistics), that 580,000 women have lost their jobs.

According to the monthly jobs report from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, there were about 66.1 million women on nonfarm payrolls in January 2009. In September 2012, that number was 65.8 million. That's a loss of roughly 300,000 jobs -- 283,000, to be precise.

So where does the 580,000 jobs lost claim come from? It could be 6 months old.

In March, 65.5 million women were employed -- a net loss of 583,000 jobs since January 2009. That would give Romney the magic number. But, since March, 300,000 jobs have been added to the economy, reducing the jobs lost number to 283,000.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/17/politics/fact-check-women-jobs/index.html

[Kobi]

As the U.S. continues to rack up more than $1 trillion of new debt every year, Americans are beginning to worry about who we owe this money to and how much power our creditors have over us.

According to Barry P. Bosworth, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution, our two biggest foreign creditors are Japan and China.

Although it may seem as though our debt to these countries renders us a puppet on strings, Bosworth says this fear is overblown. The U.S. market is very important to China's economy, so China would be loathe to do anything that might exacerbate tensions or disrupt trade between the two countries. And the same can be said for Japan. China owns $1.15 trillion of U.S. government debt -- more than any other country -- but U.S. taxpayers actually owe less money to China compared to recent years. China holds 10% of U.S. Treasuries, down from 12% two years ago.

And what about all the anti-China rhetoric that we hear about on the campaign trail?

Republican Presidential Nominee Mitt Romney has been promising the country that he will declare China a "currency manipulator" on the first day of his presidency--and then enact tariffs as necessary until he forces China to level the trading playing field. Is that something that Romney is actually likely to do if he gets elected?

No, says Bosworth.

Tough talk with respect to China has become standard rhetoric for any presidential challenger. If and when Romney becomes president, his position will likely mellow.

Bosworth also says that the problem with the U.S.-China trade relationship is not, as is commonly believed, that China doesn't play fair. China has actually addressed lots of its unfair practices over the past decade, Bosworth says, while the U.S. is still pursuing the same old self-destructive habits. Until we stop consuming so much and start producing more, Bosworth says, we're in no position to demand anything.

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ticker/owns-america-debt-191108431.html

[JustJo]

Thanks Kobi....I appreciate you pointing out that neither China or Japan want our economy to fail when they depend on it. Very true.

Also, people forget that the "national debt" is the sum of the Treasury bills that are issued. Essentially, we've written an IOU and promise to pay with interest. The vast majority of Treasury bills are owned by U.S. citizens and our own Social Security Trust Fund. So, essentially, the bulk of our debt is in our own hands.

Having said that, I'm not comfortable with us having this much debt. It's simply bad policy...much like an individual living off their credit card. At some point, there's a reckoning, and the amount spent on interest could have been better used on other things.

However, the Republican/Tea Party spin on the national debt is all about fear mongering.....big surprise, right?

Look here (http://www.mygovcost.org/2012/04/02/who-really-owns-the-us-national-debt/) if you want to see the breakdown.

[Martina]

Debt that we pay because corporations and the super wealthy do not pay is unnecessary and can be stopped easily and at once. We have to make corporations and rich folk pay their fair share. And we have to stop fighting expensive wars. We do not need another dot com bubble to get us out of debt.

Reducing debt would free some money to help reduce the problem of unemployment, which is the more important issue. Full employment would end the debt crisis in a few years. There is a gallup poll out today that says that only 45 percent of Americans over 18 have full time jobs.

We have got to get money into the economy from the banks, meaning force them to lend again, especially to small businesses. And we have to make sure that public sector jobs are not cut to the bone, which means stimulus spending. And we must repair our crumbling infrastructure.

The jobs we do have are low end jobs. It is ironic that Romney was talking about flexible scheduling. That is a high end problem. Here's what most women in the economy are encountering (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/20/opinion/low-paid-women-want-predictable-hours-and-steady-pay.html?_r=0):

Rather than being long and relentless, work hours in hourly jobs, especially low-level ones, are often scarce, fluctuating and unpredictable. Sales associates and restaurant servers might be scheduled for 7 hours one week and 32 the next. Hotel housekeepers might work Tuesday, Wednesday and Friday one week, and then Sunday, Thursday and Saturday the following week. Schedules are often posted just a few days in advance. And women in hourly jobs are likely to have less input than men in determining their work schedules, according to national surveys.

The lack of stability is especially hard on parents. Unpredictable work schedules leave them scrambling to arrange child care and reluctant to volunteer for school events or to schedule doctor’s appointments. They make it tough to establish the household routines that experts tell us are essential for healthy child development, like bedtime rituals, homework monitoring and family meal times. Unstable hours also result in unstable earnings, a nightmare for parents on tight budgets.

Well-educated women have benefited from the growing gap between workers who have college degrees and those who don’t. But low-paid women have been left vulnerable by cuts to safety net programs. In 2011, nearly half of the households headed by single mothers who worked part-time or part-year were poor (46.8 percent), compared with 8.9 percent of households headed by single mothers who worked full-time, year round.

The different pressures on salaried and hourly workers arise from companies’ trying to maximize productivity. . . .

To do that, the government must reform the Fair Labor Standards Act. Enacted in 1938 — decades before women’s labor force participation became the norm — the law established a minimum hourly wage but did not guarantee minimum weekly hours for any job (though unions may bargain for minimum hours). This reform would encourage employers to make full use of their hourly employees instead of overhiring, at low cost, a pool of on-demand shift workers.

We tax to get money to reach meaningful full employment and reduce the debt. End of story. Taxes on the wealthy and an end corporate tax breaks. And we need to improve the working conditions for all workers, which means regulation, so that the jobs we do have actually make it possible for people to live and raise a family. It's crazy that working people in this country live in poverty so that a few can become super wealthy instead of just wealthy.

[tonaderspeisung]

i'm looking forward to the 3rd party debate
even with larry king as moderator
- did stein make bail
http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/tv/showtracker/la-et-st-larry-king-third-party-debate-moderator-20121017,0,5390151.story

[Martina]

That does look fun.

Re tonight, Romney won both coin tosses and gets to go first and last. Romney . . . . grrrrrr.

[Reader]

I love MSNBC's coverage...get to see the debate with Maddow! Check it out.

http://www.showbiz411.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/rachel-maddow-2.jpg

[DapperButch]

Who else is feeling anxiety right at the moment? :worried:

[Martina]

My cat is right at my head purring way louder than she usually does. I think she's trying to lower my blood pressure.

[DapperButch]

I'm trying to decide on a glass of wine or a cup of tea to settle my nerves. I think I will start with tea and then take it from there.

[DapperButch]

Before the last debate my mother texted me to remind me it was on.

I told her that I was at the ready for it to begin.

Then she texted me that she would be praying while she was watching it.

She is voting for Romney.

I told her I would be praying too...for Obama. :cheesy:

[Martina]

Great line by Romney -- We can't kill our way out of this mess.

In the documentary I saw last night, someone said re Obama that he's the only Nobel Peace Prize winner with a kill list.

[Martina]

Romney sounds like a Democrat -- invest in education for poor people overseas.


WHoah-- Obama says something like the eighties are calling to get their foreign policy back. lol.

[princessbelle]

OH it's getting heated!!!!! And good!!!!

President Obama is certainly coming across as a MUCH more powerful and more intelligent representative of our Country.

PS Bully may or may not be having a near nervous breakdown at the moment. However, a happy one so far....

[DMW]

DUDE...note to self...Romney... you are an extremist and that is why we cannot afford to have you and your crusaders help "civilize" other countries that you do not agree with... especially when you would be taking this country back to 1940...UGH..civilize yourself MITT...MOTHER FER

[Random]

Mr. Prez came out swinging as soon as the bell rang!!!!

[Medusa]

I havent shouted at the tv yet but I have inhaled sharply several times when Obama has slapped the shit out of Romney for not knowing his ass from a hole in the ground.

[BullDog]

Obama is wiping the floor with Romney!

[Medusa]

Romney is stuttering his ass off and appears to be erratic and shaken. Is it just me?

[girl_dee]

CRAP!! i was on the phone and forgot to tune in!

online its

http://www.2012presidentialelectionnews.com/2012/10/last-presidential-debate-tonight-at-9pm-et-6pm-pt/

[Medusa]

And is it just me or is it happening that Obama slaps the shit out of Romney and Romney then tries to clean up by repeating almost ver batim what Obama just said and trying to couch it as his idea first?

Am I crazy?

[Random]

I don't know who's beliefs Romney is spouting, but they aren't his...


He keeps bringing foreign policy back to home... Is it because he only has on party line?

[princessbelle]

And is it just me or is it happening that Obama slaps the shit out of Romney and Romney then tries to clean up by repeating almost ver batim what Obama just said and trying to couch it as his idea first?

Am I crazy?

That's what Bully just said.

Medusa!!!!! What is your blood pressure. I'm about to check Bully's too.

[BullDog]

I'm seeing the same thing Medusa.

Romney's favorite word tonight is Peace, lol. Hysterical

[Martina]

Rommey -- "Iraq, no I mean Iran" *rme*