FTM place to vent and talk

[DMW]

This is a space for FTM's to talk about anything they would like to. Especially, FTM's that live as males, in their everyday lives, and are not seen by society as anything other than a biomale.Please go along with the websites guidelines of decorum and respect for others. The TOS or what have you.
At the moment, i have a killer migraine and will not be posting for a bit.

However,
Feel free to vent.
Welcome Dudes...

I do understand that we live in a closet somewhat. I suppose i don't want to have to live in the closet here. I am not always...In The Closet and i don't want to be in a closet here.

[Hominid]

Good job, DMW -

And yes, let's make a point to take very good care to self-police and respect the TOS.

[Linus]

My biggest vent right now is that there are times when I so could use an FTM around to talk to. I miss that part of NYC. Los Angeles is just too damned big and the fact that I don't have a driver license (ya.. I know! At 42 and traveling too much it's hard to focus on it enough), makes it that much harder. I feel disjointed and alone at times in regards to this. I never realized how much I missed this until the Reunion this fall.

My work colleagues are all supportive, yanno? but.. it's not the same.

Sigh.

[DMW]

Seriously and ditto guys... i gotta apologize cause of my headache...i gotta take care of that. Just looking at the computer screen is getting to me.
I will come back later.
I am glad you all are here.

[BrutalDaddy]

Very much look forward to day when society will see me as I see myself but that just doesn't happen right now.

Am glad for this place and space cause I do'nt have any FTM friends irl to talk to about every day shit. Sucks but it's life.

DMV, good thread. WIll post more later I'm sure.


Brute.

[Hominid]

Brutal and Linus-
Hopefully this space will provide a starting point for guys who are available for other guys. We are misunderstood, often going through a lot of perceptual, physical, societal changes and are viewed with either suspicion or plain old misunderstanding. It's like Sisyphus pushing the boulder up the mountain always. We don't have cis-guys, we often don't have women, really only we can understand what happens to us, much of it completely NOT part of what we expected or foresaw when we started to transition or male-identify.

I, for one, am always open for messaging and providing support.

[Teddybear]

Very much look forward to day when society will see me as I see myself but that just doesn't happen right now.

Am glad for this place and space cause I do'nt have any FTM friends irl to talk to about every day shit. Sucks but it's life.

DMV, good thread. WIll post more later I'm sure.


Brute.

hey man

anytime u need or want to talk let me know and I will send u my cell number and times to call

[DMW]

Linus, you mentioned school and i thought of a situation that came up and presented itself...a story on a lighter note...
I was in school in an anatomy lab class setting...and for some reason that i cannot recall at the moment in which the details are not really necessary for the gist....
The class needed a person to take their shirt off for ...i believe a telemetry unit with leads needing to be applied to my chest, inorder to measure the heart's electrical activity.
and the girls in the class where comfortable with me and so they were like...come on...
at first they just seemed to think that i would go ahead and offer myself for the position... and then they joked with me... and i wanted to do it...and i felt so badly for them because they didn't understand...after i didn't...i had to come up with some lame excuse of being too shy etc... i also, had to finally say...look my girl wouldn't want me to do show myself to you woman anyway...and that is kinda true too...cause they would flirt and boundaries are important..to protect them and my relationship...it was very uncomfortable for me...
The sad thing is...there were only a few biomales in the class and one was heavy set and i wanted to save him from having to take off his shirt. I think the women just assumed i was going to cause i have the kind of body that is just bland or regular i guess. So, why wouldn't they? and they were probably thinking of the overweight guy also. trying to spare him the embarrassment. ...and the other...pissed me off that he didn't. Who knows...maybe he was trans like me. like us. Eventually, the heavy set guy took his shirt off and i thanked him vociferously and publicly for his bravery. I could tell he didn't want to and he was hesitant...god and his eyes...even he looked at me like bro why not? why can't you help me and just do this for me? I felt so badly about that. God i do now.
I guess it isn't such a light note...i can laugh at myself in the situation now. But, it kinda describes our invisibility.

Oh, see....i have scars from chest surgery that would be needed to be explained...i would be outing myself to the class...right there. and the professor...hot black woman...OMG...and the school. I just wanted to focus on learning...you know? I wouldn't be ashamed to out myself...just not necessary there...like that. We had to learn...not about me being FTM...
Hugh...maybe one day...shirt comes off...oh, he is FTM...ok...continue the cardio lesson

[Teddybear]

In the 7 years since I started my journey I have had to learn that sometimes we have to be true to ourselves and the hell with what other ppl see or THINK they see or hear.

I started with 1 company and was with they till almost 2 yrs ago. They helped bybe accepting(which I didnt expect since its a southern company) and as I was progressing in my journey they moved me to b accepted more by other workers.

I have worked with 2 other companies since I left the 1st company and NO one has questioned if Im a csi man or not.

I do have to divulge the fact that I once I was known by another name cuz it is on professional background checks however I have found companies that wouldnt talk to me any longer after they found out I was transgender. It is their lost.

My parents refused to talk to me for 7 yrs and while I was in the hospital this past September my mom called and I told her all I wanted and she agreed and since that time hasnt called me by my birth name.

My biggest grip is whenever I call someone about something they call me maam. I correct them once and the next time its on. It only takes me telling them the second time and they stop calling me maam

I did have that issue in the hospital where they kept calling me she even after being told repeatedly that it was SIR

[Darbonaire]

Thanks for this space. I also am available to chat & or call....so msg me & we can go from there.

At 57 & having started this 12 years ago as far as the T & such..I can say I still miss having "guys like us" to talk to. I have some bio-male friends but I'm not "out" to them. I'm just recently divorced after a 10 year legal marriage to a wonderful woman. She was there for me through the changes & now...she's gone from me.....but, let's not go there.

Anyway, I have never been "out" as it were. Old lifetime friends of course knew & have all accepted me....but, I never was really open with other folks. Especially not to new friends etc. I have come back to VA to heal from the divorce, & have found myself among a group of people that I AM safe with. No, I won't reveal to all of them cause it's not important...but, to some of them I have, & they have warmly welcomed me. That is SO GD refreshing.

Now here's something I haven't encountered before though. One of my friends <God love her> is trying to fix me up with one of her gf's. She is straight as is her friend. the one trying to fix me up does NOT know the deal....so, I simply told her I'm not ready to date yet....which I'm not.

Have any of you ever had this happen? I would love to go out & date but wow....when it comes time..<if it does> to take it further...YIKES !

I'm just allowing life to happen right now. I'm just trusting what happens will be ok. I am glad to be back on this site though....nice not to have to explain shit, you know?

That shit in the other room pissed me off because. How dare ANYone put ANYne down for how they want to be in their own lives. I get so tired of being told I'm "wrong" or sexist for wanting to live with what many call "old fashioned beliefs", & yes...a woman who "wants" to treat me the way I want to be treated...

Anyway, enough rambling.....anyone had a dating experience that they care to share? One w/ a straight woman?

Jonathan

[Teddybear]

Thanks for this space. I also am available to chat & or call....so msg me & we can go from there.

At 57 & having started this 12 years ago as far as the T & such..I can say I still miss having "guys like us" to talk to. I have some bio-male friends but I'm not "out" to them. I'm just recently divorced after a 10 year legal marriage to a wonderful woman. She was there for me through the changes & now...she's gone from me.....but, let's not go there.

Anyway, I have never been "out" as it were. Old lifetime friends of course knew & have all accepted me....but, I never was really open with other folks. Especially not to new friends etc. I have come back to VA to heal from the divorce, & have found myself among a group of people that I AM safe with. No, I won't reveal to all of them cause it's not important...but, to some of them I have, & they have warmly welcomed me. That is SO GD refreshing.

Now here's something I haven't encountered before though. One of my friends <God love her> is trying to fix me up with one of her gf's. She is straight as is her friend. the one trying to fix me up does NOT know the deal....so, I simply told her I'm not ready to date yet....which I'm not.

Have any of you ever had this happen? I would love to go out & date but wow....when it comes time..<if it does> to take it further...YIKES !

I'm just allowing life to happen right now. I'm just trusting what happens will be ok. I am glad to be back on this site though....nice not to have to explain shit, you know?

That shit in the other room pissed me off because. How dare ANYone put ANYne down for how they want to be in their own lives. I get so tired of being told I'm "wrong" or sexist for wanting to live with what many call "old fashioned beliefs", & yes...a woman who "wants" to treat me the way I want to be treated...

Anyway, enough rambling.....anyone had a dating experience that they care to share? One w/ a straight woman?

Jonathan


Jonathan

I have found that being honest from the get go when I dated straight women really was the way to go .

I found that if u list the benefit of being a transman really gets them and do it with humor

Good luck

[Linus]

Thanks for this space. I also am available to chat & or call....so msg me & we can go from there.

At 57 & having started this 12 years ago as far as the T & such..I can say I still miss having "guys like us" to talk to. I have some bio-male friends but I'm not "out" to them. I'm just recently divorced after a 10 year legal marriage to a wonderful woman. She was there for me through the changes & now...she's gone from me.....but, let's not go there.

Anyway, I have never been "out" as it were. Old lifetime friends of course knew & have all accepted me....but, I never was really open with other folks. Especially not to new friends etc. I have come back to VA to heal from the divorce, & have found myself among a group of people that I AM safe with. No, I won't reveal to all of them cause it's not important...but, to some of them I have, & they have warmly welcomed me. That is SO GD refreshing.

Now here's something I haven't encountered before though. One of my friends <God love her> is trying to fix me up with one of her gf's. She is straight as is her friend. the one trying to fix me up does NOT know the deal....so, I simply told her I'm not ready to date yet....which I'm not.

Have any of you ever had this happen? I would love to go out & date but wow....when it comes time..<if it does> to take it further...YIKES !

I'm just allowing life to happen right now. I'm just trusting what happens will be ok. I am glad to be back on this site though....nice not to have to explain shit, you know?

That shit in the other room pissed me off because. How dare ANYone put ANYne down for how they want to be in their own lives. I get so tired of being told I'm "wrong" or sexist for wanting to live with what many call "old fashioned beliefs", & yes...a woman who "wants" to treat me the way I want to be treated...

Anyway, enough rambling.....anyone had a dating experience that they care to share? One w/ a straight woman?

Jonathan

Jonathan,

It's best to leave stuff from other threads in other threads and not drag them elsewhere.

[weatherboi]

Lack of FTM resources in my area is my biggest complaint right now. I miss team sports a lot and the last team I played on was an all mens rugby team back in the nineties. I also spend a lot of time on the water so finding guys that like to surf or paddleboard has been challenging.

I have to agree that honesty is the best policy. The straight women I have dated in the past and that I have to deal with today have and do appreciate my honest disclosures. It makes all things easier in the long run, The blind date is always the most fun to navigate.

[DMW]

Thanks for this space. I also am available to chat & or call....so msg me & we can go from there.

At 57 & having started this 12 years ago as far as the T & such..I can say I still miss having "guys like us" to talk to. I have some bio-male friends but I'm not "out" to them. I'm just recently divorced after a 10 year legal marriage to a wonderful woman. She was there for me through the changes & now...she's gone from me.....but, let's not go there.
Sorry about that.

Anyway, I have never been "out" as it were. Old lifetime friends of course knew & have all accepted me....but, I never was really open with other folks. Especially not to new friends etc. I have come back to VA to heal from the divorce, & have found myself among a group of people that I AM safe with. No, I won't reveal to all of them cause it's not important...but, to some of them I have, & they have warmly welcomed me. That is SO GD refreshing.
Glad that you have people there and feel safe with them...i got a few here too... Thank God.

Now here's something I haven't encountered before though. One of my friends <God love her> is trying to fix me up with one of her gf's. She is straight as is her friend. the one trying to fix me up does NOT know the deal....so, I simply told her I'm not ready to date yet....which I'm not.

Have any of you ever had this happen? I would love to go out & date but wow....when it comes time..<if it does> to take it further...YIKES !

I have had it happen. You know, i think if you are serious about someone, the sooner you tell them...the better for the both of you. You don't want to lead her on without knowing that you are not biomale. It gives her a chance to deal with her feelings about it. I mean, if you start out as friends and you know it could go further...i would tell. Something to play by ear. It is definately different being and FTM that passes as biomale because women see us as biomales...and so do we really...to an extent. Just gotta keep that in mind...that she would presume(most likely) we are biomale because we look it.


Jonathan

My words in green

[ruffryder]

Lack of FTM resources in my area is my biggest complaint right now. I miss team sports a lot and the last team I played on was an all mens rugby team back in the nineties. I also spend a lot of time on the water so finding guys that like to surf or paddleboard has been challenging.

I have to agree that honesty is the best policy. The straight women I have dated in the past and that I have to deal with today have and do appreciate my honest disclosures. It makes all things easier in the long run, The blind date is always the most fun to navigate.


This is one of my biggest vents too! :( Resources!, yes! Where are the resources and FTM groups in the area. Sports, yes! How I would love to just stop by the park like when I was younger and just pick up a game of bball with the fellas. Now I wonder wth they will think not being bio male and older. Buddy, you and I need to get together and hit up the beach! It's long overdue and we're in the same damn state! :)

[DMW]

I'm just allowing life to happen right now. I'm just trusting what happens will be ok. I am glad to be back on this site though....nice not to have to explain shit, you know?

Yeah...i get this totally.

That shit in the other room pissed me off because. How dare ANYone put ANYne down for how they want to be in their own lives. I get so tired of being told I'm "wrong" or sexist for wanting to live with what many call "old fashioned beliefs", & yes...a woman who "wants" to treat me the way I want to be treated...
And i get this also, the thing is....what we say can be heard as inflammatory when we don't mean it to be that way...that happens outside of this site also...you know? I can't blame a person on the site if they are offended by the remark or that they need clarification from me that i am not sexist...and i believe that we are now in a space where i can say...hey "where is my paper and my coffee winch..." and not have to explain that i am not sexist... it really isn't a whole lot different than in real time...the place needs to be respected and so do all of the people in it...you know? I just lost some of my post...so annoying...ok...i was saying this...
it isn't a good idea to bring your complaints from another thread into some other thread...it is rude to perpetuate that...number one. and i know i don't want to behave like that. So, we have to be responsible for our own behavior and what we say here also....just like in face to face life...but, here it is more difficult. There are times when people need answers from what we have posted because they don't know what we meant when we post. They need clarification. I need that sometimes also. it is our job not to engage in or perpetuate that inflammatory stuff. and to not take ?'s of clarification personally and get all defensive...I can't stand that. I hope that helps you to understand. I want you to know that i am not pointing fingers at you when i say...we or our or you. this is just how i feel about it.


Anyway, enough rambling.....anyone had a dating experience that they care to share? One w/ a straight woman?



Jonathan

My Words in green

[weatherboi]

Yanno it really doesn't matter what side of the transitional coin any of us are on here. The conversation with a straight woman is gonna go the same for a passing FTM as it would for a non passing FTM.

The gist of it is gonna be something like, "Hey I am a guy born to a body that is deemed by society as female." Both guys still put themselves in harms way and both guys are equally at risk of being perceived as a freak and rejected.

I guess if I were to vent it would be about my own community contiunally trying to be divisive with physical transition.

[Medusa]

Let me make something super fucking clear:

If I see ONE MORE REFERENCE to what happened in the other thread, I am going to hand out a long time-out.

While it is fine to talk about issues that pertain to Transmen, it IS NOT OK to use this thread as a toilet if you feel you didn't get to take a proper dump in the other thread.

Talking about things that affect you as Transmen is VERY different than casting a "Femmes are my Bitches" net. If you don't understand the difference between posting about yourself in a thoughtful manner and making a sweeping statement that is likely to offend a great many of the Femmes here (me included), then you probably need to do a lot of thinking before you post. And maybe read back through some of the threads where Femmes have talked about how it feels when someone (of any gender) treats them like a "thing" rather than a human being.

We have a great # of Transmen on this site who, in my opinion, represent the very best of what a man looks like. Find them and learn.

[DMW]

You know, i walked away from the screen for a second because i have a serious migraine...not an excuse...just an explaination as to why i didn't finish my thought well. I do not want to make this a place where...ouch...the ugh..."woman are my bitches" thread. ugh. i cannot even say that ...i guess that is how it is heard when i posted and didn't follow up early enough to my post. I do not feel that way or have that sentiment about women in general. ugh.
When i stepped away i thought more about nastiness being perpetuated and wanted to make a general post about how i don't want that here and will not accept it here...that is the point i was trying to make. I understand it. Is there a way to change the title to the thread? Like maybe not in caps....like"FTM place to vent" ? maybe Linus can do this?

Linus....can you change the thread title to "FTM place to vent?"

I have to stop looking at this screen now.

[Linus]

You know, i walked away from the screen for a second because i have a serious migraine...not an excuse...just an explaination as to why i didn't finish my thought well. I do not want to make this a place where...ouch...the ugh..."woman are my bitches" thread. ugh. i cannot even say that ...i guess that is how it is heard when i posted and didn't follow up early enough to my post. I do not feel that way or have that sentiment about women in general. ugh.
When i stepped away i thought more about nastiness being perpetuated and wanted to make a general post about how i don't want that here and will not accept it here...that is the point i was trying to make. I understand it. Is there a way to change the title to the thread? Like maybe not in caps....like"FTM place to vent" ? maybe Linus can do this?

Linus....can you change the thread title to "FTM place to vent?"

I have to stop looking at this screen now.


I modified it a bit more than what you posted. If you want me to remove the "and talk", let me know and I'll pull it. I don't want people to just rant and rave but rather work through whatever needs to be discussed, hashed, beaten around, chewed, chawed, etc.

And there is one thing I was curious about because I've seen this from both sides: I know there are many femmes who are interested/intrigued/turned on by FTMs and many FTMs who are reciprocal to this (myself included). What I'm curious about are those FTMs who are here in this community (and others like it) and interested in straight-women as opposed to femmes in this community (and others like it)?

[DMW]

I modified it a bit more than what you posted. If you want me to remove the "and talk", let me know and I'll pull it. I don't want people to just rant and rave but rather work through whatever needs to be discussed, hashed, beaten around, chewed, chawed, etc.



I think that the modification is good. Thank you. I am outty for awhile.
I have this migraine and i think that along with more nastiness has made me puky now... I hope that the thread doesn't spread nastiness.

Thanks Linus

[Darbonaire]

I do sincerely apologize for mentioning the other thread. That's all I'm going to say about that.

I am interested in WOMEN....I don't care if they are straight or lesbian femme.....I happen to be in a group in R/T where straight women are what surrounds me...therefore my question about the date thing.

I have no problem telling a women...I guess I wasn't clear as to what I was asking.....IF I find the woman & I getting to a point where things may go further then I shall address the situation. I was more interested in the .."What kind of response have you had from...." have you fu*c*ed them & if so, how did that go as far as there being misunderstandings if any.....that sort of question. Having been married for the last 10 years to a femme I was just curious what the differences are & what other's experiences were.

I do hope this isn't going to turn into a "Why are you here on this site if you're only interested in straight women ..." cause that shit gets REALLY old...especially since I am ON this site because I love FEMMES & their energy.....

Nuff said....all the answers to my question I look forward to....

[weatherboi]

Yes I have been actively interested in and dated other women that id other than femme that are not on this site. There are many straight women out there that understand and enjoy dating guys like me/us. My work in the hospitality/entertainment industry offered/s me opportunities to date and share time. Some I have been intimate with and some I haven't but the one thing they all had in common before anything started is they all knew I am a transman/FTM. Some handled it better than others but that never mattered, I just kept moving forward with conviction to be myself.


I modified it a bit more than what you posted. If you want me to remove the "and talk", let me know and I'll pull it. I don't want people to just rant and rave but rather work through whatever needs to be discussed, hashed, beaten around, chewed, chawed, etc.

And there is one thing I was curious about because I've seen this from both sides: I know there are many femmes who are interested/intrigued/turned on by FTMs and many FTMs who are reciprocal to this (myself included). What I'm curious about are those FTMs who are here in this community (and others like it) and interested in straight-women as opposed to femmes in this community (and others like it)?

[Julien]

I am a 50 year old transman who is caught "inbetween" in that I am not on T nor have I had any surgery. I have been "transitioning" for about 5 or so years and don't know when I will take the next step (surgery and/or T). It is a money issue for me and I am frustrated with how I am perceived by others. I can pass at times and other times not so much. I was once told by a MTF that I looked gender neutral, which I guess reflects my inbetweenism and I am not comfortable in that status. I am not out to everyone, and don't know how to go about it really. For example at the MCC I attend I am out to the other trans people(MTF) there and I tend to hang out with the Lesbians, but I don't exactly fit in other than my attraction to women. I also have this fear (possibly unfounded) that once I out myself to the Lesbian group that I will be treated differently for I've heard some grumblings about men as a group. I feel I won't be supported. I am not in the gay men's group, because of my inbetweenism and I'm not a gay male. I have found no other transmen in the MCC and feeling a little isolated on that front. I live in a small city and the community as a whole is not so visible. I guess I'm trying to figure out how to fit in. Thanks for any thoughts on the matter.

[Darbonaire]

I am a 50 year old transman who is caught "inbetween" in that I am not on T nor have I had any surgery. I have been "transitioning" for about 5 or so years and don't know when I will take the next step (surgery and/or T). It is a money issue for me and I am frustrated with how I am perceived by others. I can pass at times and other times not so much. I was once told by a MTF that I looked gender neutral, which I guess reflects my inbetweenism and I am not comfortable in that status. I am not out to everyone, and don't know how to go about it really. For example at the MCC I attend I am out to the other trans people(MTF) there and I tend to hang out with the Lesbians, but I don't exactly fit in other than my attraction to women. I also have this fear (possibly unfounded) that once I out myself to the Lesbian group that I will be treated differently for I've heard some grumblings about men as a group. I feel I won't be supported. I am not in the gay men's group, because of my inbetweenism and I'm not a gay male. I have found no other transmen in the MCC and feeling a little isolated on that front. I live in a small city and the community as a whole is not so visible. I guess I'm trying to figure out how to fit in. Thanks for any thoughts on the matter.

Nice to meet you Julian...<smile>.....I note you live in AL.....I lived there for 8 years with my ex wife...it can be a bit stifling to be there & be different. I was fortunate, my wife's friends accepted me cause I was with her.....I was never comfortable with "outing" myself there...or anywhere really....mainly because I figure it's no one's business. Do you know of the website "The Transitional Male" ? There are some things on there that might help....binders, suggestions etc. I am lucky cause I am perceived as bio-male & have been on T & had surgery etc.

I know there are some guys on this site in the same situation you are in now. Before I started T I was almost always perceived male...lol...well, after I had a breast reduction that is....lol....before that I think folks thought, "Damn that guy's got big boobs!" Anyway, being true to yourself, exploring possible surgery options, talking with others in the same space....the FTM community in my experience has been very willing to help with questions & help with guidance too. Just keep allowing your true self to shine through man.....

Hope that helped.....

Jonathan

[Corkey]

So... I'm not transitioning because well it isn't going to happen. I can't take T because my insurance, Disability will never pay for it. I found my one and only and she could care less, because she loves who I am not just what I am. If I could say just one thing, it is be yourself always and love who comes your way. Straight, Femme or any other ID. Humans have the capacity for love, and who you love matters only to you and the one who has your heart.

(*you* general)

[Darbonaire]

So... I'm not transitioning because well it isn't going to happen. I can't take T because my insurance, Disability will never pay for it. I found my one and only and she could care less, because she loves who I am not just what I am. If I could say just one thing, it is be yourself always and love who comes your way. Straight, Femme or any other ID. Humans have the capacity for love, and who you love matters only to you and the one who has your heart.

(*you* general)

Thanks for this post ! ^5

Jonathan

[Julien]

Hi Jonathan,
Good to meet you. Thanks for the info about the site, I will look into it. Since you've lived in AL then you know who it can be stifling and I don't mean the weather during the summer. It seems that I've found more MTFs than FTMs here and I am hoping to meet up with FTMs in the future, but for now I will look to people like you and others on this site/thread for input.

Thanks again,
Julien

[Linus]

I do sincerely apologize for mentioning the other thread. That's all I'm going to say about that.

I am interested in WOMEN....I don't care if they are straight or lesbian femme.....I happen to be in a group in R/T where straight women are what surrounds me...therefore my question about the date thing.

I have no problem telling a women...I guess I wasn't clear as to what I was asking.....IF I find the woman & I getting to a point where things may go further then I shall address the situation. I was more interested in the .."What kind of response have you had from...." have you fu*c*ed them & if so, how did that go as far as there being misunderstandings if any.....that sort of question. Having been married for the last 10 years to a femme I was just curious what the differences are & what other's experiences were.

I do hope this isn't going to turn into a "Why are you here on this site if you're only interested in straight women ..." cause that shit gets REALLY old...especially since I am ON this site because I love FEMMES & their energy.....

Nuff said....all the answers to my question I look forward to....

Naw.. totally get it. As for the response.. I have to say I dunno. I think the ones that have been into me at the start of my transition were very positive.

I will say that sometimes I'm surprised that straight women come on to me. The most surprising was when I was in Singapore and had three different prostitutes (it was a very well known prostitute area) come up to me, offering to "love me long time" (I shit you not -- that's what they said!).

I think that it's just a matter of finding the right one and sometimes it takes time. A bigger challenge, IMO, is finding one that's nearby. In the few that I've dated (just at the start of my transition), they were either across country or in a different country altogether (I'm Canadian and ended up moving to the US because of the one I found and fell hard for and am still falling hard for to date).

[Darbonaire]

"Love you long time".....lol.....sounds good to me......just kidding......sort of. I got VERY lucky to be "found" by my ex......I traveled a lot with my former job so I met several ladies who I spent time with. Yeah, now the "close by" situation may be a speed bump along the way but, it's how it is.......

I keep thinking I was "found" once so maybe it will happen again....who knows. I even think sometimes, was I an idiot for letting a divorce happen...but, you can't stay someplace that isn't "right" just because you're afriad you may never find another partner....at least I couldn't.

I'm SO not ready to date right now...I do have friends I can call to meet for coffee or lunch but, as far as anything serious...nope, not yet....still WAY too much healing to do.

I have had straight women hit on me & gay guys....lol....so, I will just stay in the present & take baby steps to heal the heart, & when it's right.....she'll walk in.....I truly believe that.

How's Redondo Beach? I'm from CA originally....sometimes I miss it...well, no I miss my friends....I do miss the more open attitude there though...but, VA is very good to me.

Ok, off to watch the weather.....enjoy the night all !!

Jonathan

[Linus]

"Love you long time".....lol.....sounds good to me......just kidding......sort of. I got VERY lucky to be "found" by my ex......I traveled a lot with my former job so I met several ladies who I spent time with. Yeah, now the "close by" situation may be a speed bump along the way but, it's how it is.......

I keep thinking I was "found" once so maybe it will happen again....who knows. I even think sometimes, was I an idiot for letting a divorce happen...but, you can't stay someplace that isn't "right" just because you're afriad you may never find another partner....at least I couldn't.

I'm SO not ready to date right now...I do have friends I can call to meet for coffee or lunch but, as far as anything serious...nope, not yet....still WAY too much healing to do.

I have had straight women hit on me & gay guys....lol....so, I will just stay in the present & take baby steps to heal the heart, & when it's right.....she'll walk in.....I truly believe that.

How's Redondo Beach? I'm from CA originally....sometimes I miss it...well, no I miss my friends....I do miss the more open attitude there though...but, VA is very good to me.

Ok, off to watch the weather.....enjoy the night all !!

Jonathan

Ya.. Sometimes it's good to take a break and find yourself before letting someone else find you. That's actually very important.

As for Redondo, it's very nice (weather wise) but damned expensive. A house down the street from us just went up for sale.. for a mere $989K. :blink: If I won the lottery...

[Hominid]

I used to think this as well, and for the most part still feel that way - however, I've had TWO different occasions with doctors during an exam, in a very heavily trans-populated area - that had no idea when they saw my scars. They asked, I said "eh ... man-boobs" and both of their responses was "hmmm ... unusual, usually people who need that are overweight" -

Linus, you mentioned school and i thought of a situation that came up and presented itself...a story on a lighter note...
I was in school in an anatomy lab class setting...and for some reason that i cannot recall at the moment in which the details are not really necessary for the gist....
The class needed a person to take their shirt off for ...i believe a telemetry unit with leads needing to be applied to my chest, inorder to measure the heart's electrical activity.
and the girls in the class where comfortable with me and so they were like...come on...
at first they just seemed to think that i would go ahead and offer myself for the position... and then they joked with me... and i wanted to do it...and i felt so badly for them because they didn't understand...after i didn't...i had to come up with some lame excuse of being too shy etc... i also, had to finally say...look my girl wouldn't want me to do show myself to you woman anyway...and that is kinda true too...cause they would flirt and boundaries are important..to protect them and my relationship...it was very uncomfortable for me...
The sad thing is...there were only a few biomales in the class and one was heavy set and i wanted to save him from having to take off his shirt. I think the women just assumed i was going to cause i have the kind of body that is just bland or regular i guess. So, why wouldn't they? and they were probably thinking of the overweight guy also. trying to spare him the embarrassment. ...and the other...pissed me off that he didn't. Who knows...maybe he was trans like me. like us. Eventually, the heavy set guy took his shirt off and i thanked him vociferously and publicly for his bravery. I could tell he didn't want to and he was hesitant...god and his eyes...even he looked at me like bro why not? why can't you help me and just do this for me? I felt so badly about that. God i do now.
I guess it isn't such a light note...i can laugh at myself in the situation now. But, it kinda describes our invisibility.

Oh, see....i have scars from chest surgery that would be needed to be explained...i would be outing myself to the class...right there. and the professor...hot black woman...OMG...and the school. I just wanted to focus on learning...you know? I wouldn't be ashamed to out myself...just not necessary there...like that. We had to learn...not about me being FTM...
Hugh...maybe one day...shirt comes off...oh, he is FTM...ok...continue the cardio lesson

[Hominid]

I am interested in women, similarly to Darbonaire. I am less interested in how she identifies, outside of respecting it. If she's into me and vice versa, I could care less. I tend to be attracted in real life to straight women - then again, for the most part, those are the only ones I meet. I do have a faint memory of wanting a straight woman earlier in transition - not as a conquest or anything, but I see that then I wanted to be clear I was not "other" - I was male. Now, I think a queer femme or some iteration from the community would save a lot of time and effort - being understood on some fundamental level and not having to "teach".

I have not had to tell anyone that I am trans. I don't want to. I dread it. So I limit my own self when it comes to moving in the real world. I really don't know if I could handle the aftermath (embarrassment). But I am on some main stream dating sites, and after a long description of myself, I reveal that I am trans. I've had some interest from straight women, less from bi women. As far as an actual "meet", I had breakfast with a wonderfully geeky woman the other day and she seems very interested. I have to force myself to reach out to several women a week who interest me. The percentages of responses are dismal at best, but then again, most women are inundated.

[Darbonaire]

Ya.. Sometimes it's good to take a break and find yourself before letting someone else find you. That's actually very important.

As for Redondo, it's very nice (weather wise) but damned expensive. A house down the street from us just went up for sale.. for a mere $989K. :blink: If I won the lottery...



Another reason I don't live in CA ...lol...I'd move back to N CA if I won the lottery...actually Tahoe !!! Oh Yeah !!!

[Darbonaire]

I am interested in women, similarly to Darbonaire. I am less interested in how she identifies, outside of respecting it. If she's into me and vice versa, I could care less. I tend to be attracted in real life to straight women - then again, for the most part, those are the only ones I meet. I do have a faint memory of wanting a straight woman earlier in transition - not as a conquest or anything, but I see that then I wanted to be clear I was not "other" - I was male. Now, I think a queer femme or some iteration from the community would save a lot of time and effort - being understood on some fundamental level and not having to "teach".

I have not had to tell anyone that I am trans. I don't want to. I dread it. So I limit my own self when it comes to moving in the real world. I really don't know if I could handle the aftermath (embarrassment). But I am on some main stream dating sites, and after a long description of myself, I reveal that I am trans. I've had some interest from straight women, less from bi women. As far as an actual "meet", I had breakfast with a wonderfully geeky woman the other day and she seems very interested. I have to force myself to reach out to several women a week who interest me. The percentages of responses are dismal at best, but then again, most women are inundated.

dating sites.....I prefer to meet folks r/t......but hey....maybe when the time is right...who knows !

[BrutalDaddy]

Interesting discussion going on in the sense that it's not something I ever really thought about.

Guess you could say the reasoning being that I didn't truly get how "okay" it would be for me to fully come out about being FTM until I met 'sational/Julie. Since then, well she's my wife so it's not even a question in my mind but this question/thought has got me thinking.

I don't think I could ever date a straight woman. Not being judgemental or saying it's anything they would do wrong but it's purely me. Having gone through the journey I've gone through and still going through, I don't know if I could ever have that understanding from a straight female that I would get from a female that lives within the realm of the rainbow

For me, it's hard enough trying to explain my situation to those around me (mainly family and some friends who ask). They are all straight. Yet I know without a shadow of a doubt that I can come in here, verbally vomit anything out (that has to do with me and transitioning) and 9 out of 10 females would GET IT. Whereas with straight women, not so much.

So I feel like I'd rather be with a woman who can somewhat get me, my frustrations, my joy (at being seen as a male out there), my embarrassments, my everything. That's what I have now with Julie. She gets it because she is gay. She understands that society will never completely so get it. I can come home one day and be upset because of how I was perceived and she gets that totally.

Maybe I'm being judgemental because like I said, I've never really dated a straight woman while in transition so I could be way off base. I just know that, if I were single, I honestly think I'd be way more comfortable dating someone from within the rainbow then outside of it. I just want to make sure that I'm understood. That I'm not looked at with pity or that whole, "boy I gots no idea why she'd do that but if it makes her happy, eh who cares". I have enough family members that do that. Lol.

Anyway, good topic. Thanks for the brain food.


Loves Me Some Brain,
Brute.

[Darbonaire]

Interesting discussion going on in the sense that it's not something I ever really thought about.

Guess you could say the reasoning being that I didn't truly get how "okay" it would be for me to fully come out about being FTM until I met 'sational/Julie. Since then, well she's my wife so it's not even a question in my mind but this question/thought has got me thinking.

I don't think I could ever date a straight woman. Not being judgemental or saying it's anything they would do wrong but it's purely me. Having gone through the journey I've gone through and still going through, I don't know if I could ever have that understanding from a straight female that I would get from a female that lives within the realm of the rainbow

For me, it's hard enough trying to explain my situation to those around me (mainly family and some friends who ask). They are all straight. Yet I know without a shadow of a doubt that I can come in here, verbally vomit anything out (that has to do with me and transitioning) and 9 out of 10 females would GET IT. Whereas with straight women, not so much.

So I feel like I'd rather be with a woman who can somewhat get me, my frustrations, my joy (at being seen as a male out there), my embarrassments, my everything. That's what I have now with Julie. She gets it because she is gay. She understands that society will never completely so get it. I can come home one day and be upset because of how I was perceived and she gets that totally.

Maybe I'm being judgemental because like I said, I've never really dated a straight woman while in transition so I could be way off base. I just know that, if I were single, I honestly think I'd be way more comfortable dating someone from within the rainbow then outside of it. I just want to make sure that I'm understood. That I'm not looked at with pity or that whole, "boy I gots no idea why she'd do that but if it makes her happy, eh who cares". I have enough family members that do that. Lol.

Anyway, good topic. Thanks for the brain food.


Loves Me Some Brain,
Brute.

which is why I'm back on this site....cause it WILL be "easier" if the woman understands about us. I just find myself in a group of freinds that I love & enjoy & they happen to be straight so......when in Rome....LOL......anyway, it's just something I'm kicking around. Like I said..i am SO not ready yet......have a ways to go to heal yet. I wouldn't do that to ANY woman straight or lesbian.

[BrutalDaddy]

which is why I'm back on this site....cause it WILL be "easier" if the woman understands about us. I just find myself in a group of freinds that I love & enjoy & they happen to be straight so......when in Rome....LOL......anyway, it's just something I'm kicking around. Like I said..i am SO not ready yet......have a ways to go to heal yet. I wouldn't do that to ANY woman straight or lesbian.


I get what you're saying. All of our friends are straight as well. Comes with territory of area we live in but also the gay folks that do live near there really won't have anything to do with us because of the whole FTM/femme status. I guess they think we're "traitors" to our own kind? Lol. Whatever their deal is, we don't worry about it and actually love our straight friends. Only one of them (Julie's best friend) really gets it I think. The rest just kinda get that glazed over look in their eyes then pretend they never heard any of it. Go figure.

When you're ready, you'll know.


Brute.

[Hominid]

I've actually gotten the most flak from vanilla lesbians and butch lesbians - after some conversation, at least with one who was a true enough friend to have it, and with others over time, there was an element of threat/jealousy/something. One friend told me that she wishes she could transition - and I can see it. She's thrilled when someone sees her as male. I can remember, pre-transition, thinking ftms were weak - that it took more strength to be female and masculine, and that I was more masculine as a butch than 99% of the men I knew. Over time (with butches), I tried to recognize their masculinity, and make clear that my male-ness was NOT masculinity in and of itself. Now, they don't "see" me, so it's not an issue in that way. It IS an issue as far as meeting others in the community (another friend and I have compared my position with femme invisibility).

I get what you're saying. All of our friends are straight as well. Comes with territory of area we live in but also the gay folks that do live near there really won't have anything to do with us because of the whole FTM/femme status. I guess they think we're "traitors" to our own kind? Lol. Whatever their deal is, we don't worry about it and actually love our straight friends. Only one of them (Julie's best friend) really gets it I think. The rest just kinda get that glazed over look in their eyes then pretend they never heard any of it. Go figure.

When you're ready, you'll know.


Brute.

[BrutalDaddy]

I've actually gotten the most flak from vanilla lesbians and butch lesbians - after some conversation, at least with one who was a true enough friend to have it, and with others over time, there was an element of threat/jealousy/something. One friend told me that she wishes she could transition - and I can see it. She's thrilled when someone sees her as male. I can remember, pre-transition, thinking ftms were weak - that it took more strength to be female and masculine, and that I was more masculine as a butch than 99% of the men I knew. Over time (with butches), I tried to recognize their masculinity, and make clear that my male-ness was NOT masculinity in and of itself. Now, they don't "see" me, so it's not an issue in that way. It IS an issue as far as meeting others in the community (another friend and I have compared my position with femme invisibility).


Exactly! Julie and I have actually talked about how she goes through femme invisibility and I go through FTM invisibility, both in straight and rainbow world. Maybe that's why I feel I would be way more comfortable with a femme if I were single, versus a straight woman. I've never met a straight woman who suffers from feeling invisible with her own idenity but I've met plenty of femmes who have. It's that tangible common ground/connection that makes the relationship/friendship/whatever it is that much more bonded. That understanding of what the other must go through.

You know I've tried really hard to understand what the issue folks from our own world have against us (her and I) but I can not figure it out. Finally got to a point where I don't care, for the most part. Won't lie, still gets to me sometimes because it really would be nice to be around "family" face to face but that'll happen come September at the Reunion! Not only get to put faces with the names of folks we've talked to for years but also get to soak up the real life experience of being "home", so to speak.

[weatherboi]

In my past I found some of my fears and apprehension and some apprehension my friends felt over my trans status may have caused some angst but for the most part I think all my butch friends and lesbian friends are very supportive and interested in my life here and in everyday. I have never felt like I am in competition with people over my gender and I don't think they have ever felt this way with me.

[BrutalDaddy]

In my past I found some of my fears and apprehension and some apprehension my friends felt over my trans status may have caused some angst but for the most part I think all my butch friends and lesbian friends are very supportive and interested in my life here and in everyday. I have never felt like I am in competition with people over my gender and I don't think they have ever felt this way with me.


I'm glad you've got friends who are supportive. Wish I could say same for her and I. Unfortunately we've gotten shitted on quite a bit over the years but it's their issue, not ours.

I still remember our first date. Took her to a local gay club/bar and soon as we walked in the door, you could've heard a pin drop. Also if looks could wither, we'd crumpled to the floor. Lol.

Funny thing is, I've met some butches who were just fine with us until they found out that I was FTM. Then came the stares, the sneers, the eyerolling. Don't even think it's a competition thing at all with them because I'm very content with who I am and also very content with who they are and how they identify. It's literally an issue of being "traitors" because I want to be a man (even though it's not a "want" but something that just is) which is the easier, softer way for them. No matter the fact that it's the harder path for me to take since now I have to deal judgement from society AND the rainbow.

[DMW]

I'm glad you've got friends who are supportive. Wish I could say same for her and I. Unfortunately we've gotten shitted on quite a bit over the years but it's their issue, not ours.

I still remember our first date. Took her to a local gay club/bar and soon as we walked in the door, you could've heard a pin drop. Also if looks could wither, we'd crumpled to the floor. Lol.

Funny thing is, I've met some butches who were just fine with us until they found out that I was FTM. Then came the stares, the sneers, the eyerolling. Don't even think it's a competition thing at all with them because I'm very content with who I am and also very content with who they are and how they identify. It's literally an issue of being "traitors" because I want to be a man (even though it's not a "want" but something that just is) which is the easier, softer way for them. No matter the fact that it's the harder path for me to take since now I have to deal judgement from society AND the rainbow.

Brute, damn it is nice to read your post and let you speak for me. My head
is still pounding...whiney dude today. I think it is so important to put myself in another persons' shoes...emotionally...to really try and understand what could be going on inside their heads. And listen...if they will talk about it. I can understand the "traitor" feeling ...why the people in the rainbow would feel this way. I am actually struggling right now cause i find myself going back and forth now that i have come into this site...and not just because of the site...i have always struggled with this..."damn the straight society and i shall not be silent" and then the idea of
ugh...just let me live ok. That is really my issue. I have struggled with what i feel is a need to be OUT as a transman in order to LIVE as a transman.

As far as your invisible femme...i was in more than one relationship where
the poor femmes always kinda get the shaft. The best thing i could do for her was to tell her..."look, i respect and like so and so. So, i don't mind that
you come out to her if you need someone to talk to about US with a friend.
I think that is so important. And it really puts them at ease. I only asked of her...to let me OK who i would allow to know about me and US.

And i really need to learn how to clean up the format of my posts...

[weatherboi]

I have experienced certain friends viewing me as a traitor. People are gonna either work it out in themselves or not I guess. Mostly my supportive people are here and then I have a few constants that love me no matterwhat. I am lucky when I look at it that way. Gay clubs can be so rough sometimes and can feel very unwelcoming to people that don't don a bar stool night after night. I am sorry ya'll had to deal with that.

I'm glad you've got friends who are supportive. Wish I could say same for her and I. Unfortunately we've gotten shitted on quite a bit over the years but it's their issue, not ours.

I still remember our first date. Took her to a local gay club/bar and soon as we walked in the door, you could've heard a pin drop. Also if looks could wither, we'd crumpled to the floor. Lol.

Funny thing is, I've met some butches who were just fine with us until they found out that I was FTM. Then came the stares, the sneers, the eyerolling. Don't even think it's a competition thing at all with them because I'm very content with who I am and also very content with who they are and how they identify. It's literally an issue of being "traitors" because I want to be a man (even though it's not a "want" but something that just is) which is the easier, softer way for them. No matter the fact that it's the harder path for me to take since now I have to deal judgement from society AND the rainbow.

[BrutalDaddy]

Brute, damn it is nice to read your post and let you speak for me. My head
is still pounding...whiney dude today. I think it is so important to put myself in another persons' shoes...emotionally...to really try and understand what could be going on inside their heads. And listen...if they will talk about it. I can understand the "traitor" feeling ...why the people in the rainbow would feel this way. I am actually struggling right now cause i find myself going back and forth now that i have come into this site...and not just because of the site...i have always struggled with this..."damn the straight society and i shall not be silent" and then the idea of
ugh...just let me live ok. That is really my issue. I have struggled with what i feel is a need to be OUT as a transman in order to LIVE as a transman.

As far as your invisible femme...i was in more than one relationship where
the poor femmes always kinda get the shaft. The best thing i could do for her was to tell her...look...i respect and like so and so..So, i don't mind that
you come out to her if you need someone to talk to about US with a friend.
I think that is so important. I only asked of her...to let me OK who i would allow to know about me and US.



Wow. Love it when someone takes the jumbled up thoughts in my head and lay them out clearly so I can do the same in my own mind. I struggle with that too, DMW. The desire to be seen as queer, kinda like my own "fuck you" to society, and the desire to be seen fully as a male. Sometimes I wonder can I have my cake and eat it too? I have struggled with the traitor thing because my journey, my past is not something I ever want to let go of or forget because it is just an intricate part of me. Being a part of this community/rainbow is something I hold dear to my heart because I have much, much stronger connection with it then I do with the straight world.

I'm lucky in the sense that Julie gets me and the situation. I do feel bad that because I am FTM, there will always be shit thrown from both sides of the aisle and she'll be stuck in the middle of it. But that is her choice so feeling bad about it is on me, not her. She knows the ramifications of what being with a FTM will be and yet because of her strong sense of self and her desire for me to be completely okay with myself, she'll take the shit throwing. I can only imagine how much more invisible being with a FTM makes her, especially when I am able to fully transition. Thing is being with me isn't what makes her femme. It's just who she is. Unfortunately some folks will never see it that way.

[BrutalDaddy]

I have experienced certain friends viewing me as a traitor. People are gonna either work it out in themselves or not I guess. Mostly my supportive people are here and then I have a few constants that love me no matterwhat. I am lucky when I look at it that way. Gay clubs can be so rough sometimes and can feel very unwelcoming to people that don't don a bar stool night after night. I am sorry ya'll had to deal with that.



Yea, I've figured out over the years how tough it is going into a gay club as a brand new face. In a sense I can understand the initial mistrust because we do have to be so very careful with who we allow in so as not to get hurt or fucked with. Yet on the flip side of the coin, so many folks just coming out feel like they're twisting in the wind and just want to feel like they belong somewhere.

Thank you for the condolence. It sucks but it's life as well. Again, huge reason I am so glad this site is here for us. Kinda like our own Cheers, where everybody knows our name. Lol.

Just Don't Call Me Norm,
Brute.

[Julien]

I want to address this traitor issue. This is one of the reasons I'm hesitant to out myself with this new group of people (MCC), because I do not know what their response might be. However, I think that it might have to do with me in general and some misconception I may have. I also see the response some of you have gone through, so I know this is out there. It seems that life is tough enough for those of us who are trans than to have be judged by our own LGB community. I would also like to say that I find people on this site more welcoming and accepting of us, which is why I come here.

[DMW]

Julien, i have found that whether someone is gay or straight, how they treat me, really isn't the issue for me. For me it is about being who i am. I understand the fear...but, i try not to let that rule how i live or the choices that i make based on what i need. I read your post and it worries me for you actually. No matter where i am ...(gay or straight world)... i am trans and base my decisions on when and where and to whom i should "out "myself to....dependent on the given situation.

What is the MCC group?

I hope you come back soon because i may have to leave without hearing your answer and then you will have to wait for a reply from me.

Brute, love what you shared.

I gotta check out again. Have a good night all.

[Julien]

Julien, i have found that whether someone is gay or straight, how they treat me, really isn't the issue for me. For me it is about being who i am. I understand the fear...but, i try not to let that rule how i live or the choices that i make based on what i need. I read your post and it worries me for you actually. No matter where i am ...(gay or straight world)... i am trans and base my decisions on when and where and to whom i should "out "myself to....dependent on the given situation.

What is the MCC group?

I hope you come back soon because i may have to leave without hearing your answer and then you will have to wait for a reply from me.

Brute, love what you shared.

I gotta check out again. Have a good night all.

Thanks for responding to my post and I appreciate your concern for me. I should have been more clear the MCC is the Metropolitan Community Church, for lack of a better phrase a LGBT church. While I'm not a big church goer I decided to attend to meet people within the community. It has worked, I'm just hesitant with how much I share with people. Let me say I am fine with myself in general aside for being inbetween (as I say). I'm am out to key members of my family and have the full support of them for which I am grateful. Again I appreciate your concern and would be happy to discuss this with you further on another day.

[DMW]

Hey, Julien, my apologies...i didn't get that when i first read your previous thread. I get the idea. I will have to think on it more and then respond later when i have time. You are in a bit of a pinch for sure. Have faith and hang in there. I hope someone new comes along to the group. If not, you have this place...and that is good.

[Hominid]

Julien -

I just wanted to say that the stuff I did run up against was very subtle, and not in a community or group. I guess what I mean is that if you out yourself in the MCC, I am positive you will actually find people who gravitate *towards* you - being genuine almost always brings people closer, if in a safe environment. Yes, others may distance themselves a bit, but I think you have nothing to lose and everything to gain. I say, go for it.

I want to address this traitor issue. This is one of the reasons I'm hesitant to out myself with this new group of people (MCC), because I do not know what their response might be. However, I think that it might have to do with me in general and some misconception I may have. I also see the response some of you have gone through, so I know this is out there. It seems that life is tough enough for those of us who are trans than to have be judged by our own LGB community. I would also like to say that I find people on this site more welcoming and accepting of us, which is why I come here.

[Darbonaire]

When you're ready, you'll know.


Brute.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I think I will...thanks !

You two have a great day !

Jonathan

[Darbonaire]

I know how this shit feels from the lesbian community...not ALL of the community but a large part of it...in my experience anyway.

I don't give a rat's ass how someone identifies....that's their deal....but, because I aligned my body with my heart & soul, does NOT mean I am a traitor to the lesbian community...I never WAS a lesbian...THEY perceived me that way so that's on them. Yep, we've all heard the...."Well, if you want to be a guy....." shit. The butches that don't get it the feminists that don't get it. I think it's GREAT that they are comfortabe being masculine in their female bodies....excellent...for them. It was NOT for me & never has been.

The LBGT community is discriminated against by society & why the fu*k there's such "in-fighting" amongst these groups I've never understood. People are afraid of what they don't understand. I have often wondered if some of the shit I've heard from masculine butches isn't envy in a way. <Figuring I may get a LOT of shit over that statement...lol> It's just something I've wondered is all.....not something I believe to be true....at least not all the time.

Anyway, somewhere out there is another mate for me who will encompass ALL the wonderful qualities of my ex-wife, & be even more of a match for me. When I'm ready.......

[weatherboi]

Woah woah woah!!!

wtf??? I get we all have some pretty hard experiences in AND out of our own community and it needs to be talked about, but all the lesbian and butch bashing in this thread is gonna get moderated and then we will have no space to talk things out. Plus I really like my community members and respect them for their journey which I can only imagine is just as challenging as any one of ours. I am sure it isn't easy walking in this world as a butch person either so let's be bigger than we already are and figure out a way to talk about things without bashing our community members here or elsewhere.

I am not sure why you would think butches would be envious of us. I can't imagine any person wanting to walk in our shoes for all we have to go through. I think it would be important to point out that if somebody says to anyone of us "well if you wanna be a man" that this person is coming from an ignorant space and not a butch or lesbian space.


I know how this shit feels from the lesbian community...not ALL of the community but a large part of it...in my experience anyway.

I don't give a rat's ass how someone identifies....that's their deal....but, because I aligned my body with my heart & soul, does NOT mean I am a traitor to the lesbian community...I never WAS a lesbian...THEY perceived me that way so that's on them. Yep, we've all heard the...."Well, if you want to be a guy....." shit. The butches that don't get it the feminists that don't get it. I think it's GREAT that they are comfortabe being masculine in their female bodies....excellent...for them. It was NOT for me & never has been.

The LBGT community is discriminated against by society & why the fu*k there's such "in-fighting" amongst these groups I've never understood. People are afraid of what they don't understand. I have often wondered if some of the shit I've heard from masculine butches isn't envy in a way. <Figuring I may get a LOT of shit over that statement...lol> It's just something I've wondered is all.....not something I believe to be true....at least not all the time.

Anyway, somewhere out there is another mate for me who will encompass ALL the wonderful qualities of my ex-wife, & be even more of a match for me. When I'm ready.......

[DMW]

Julien, Hominid's last post quotes the post of yours that i was refering to in my last post. Keep that straight. Lol...and my last post came up just as your last post did. I think what Hominid said is some good advice. I believe that also. There will be someone in that group that is chill..and who knows...there may be new members to come. In my experience, i kinda pick and choose who i will open up to. But, sometimes that takes more time and patience. It can be annoying and exhausting. I am also, way hesitant with what i share with people, myself. It sounds like it is a new setting...I think staying positive and showing up to the meetings regularly is a good start.

[DMW]

Brute, i didn't even see that you were included in that also. Completely missed the word "I" in the her and I....geezle. Maybe time to go to the eye dr. Could be why i am getting these HA. I think you said that you are in a new area.That makes it thing difficult for awhile too. Transitioning and moving to a new area can be really trying. The two of you have each other and that is awesome. And i now realize that your femme was the femme that understood so well from the other thread...Good for you two! I am lovin' that realization. And it makes me smile.
I gotta go to work now...

I'm glad you've got friends who are supportive. Wish I could say same for her and I.

[weatherboi]

Brute, i didn't even see that you were included in that also. Completely missed the word "I" in the her and I....geezle. Maybe time to go to the eye dr. Could be why i am getting these HA. I think you said that you are in a new area.That makes it thing difficult for awhile too. Transitioning and moving to a new area can be really trying. The two of you have each other and that is awesome. And i now realize that your femme was the femme that understood so well from the other thread...Good for you two! I am lovin' that realization. And it makes me smile.
I gotta go to work now...

I thought we were leaving the other thread out of this DMW???

What I see you doing is kinda like pitting femmes against each other I think and maybe we should rethink that. Many femmes participated over there and all of them understand our plights greatly. I find it insulting considering my pookie bear was participating over there and you need to stop. It is unwelcoming and you are the OP.

[DMW]

Darbonaire, i understand that you are struggling... but, please watch the inflammatory words...and please be respectful. Damn. I put my foot in my mouth too. Seriously, there is a time and place for some things. And you gotta know when to draw the line and watch what you say. People have feelings here Man. My post from yesterday got chopped up...i did chopped it up on accident.
So, i didn't get to clarify this same idea. I don't want you to feel picked on by me...but, damn man. Please watch what you say. Everyone on this site has to censor themselves with what they say in order to consider other member's feelings.
Keep that in mind and please be respectful. I have to go to work.

[Linus]

I know how this shit feels from the lesbian community...not ALL of the community but a large part of it...in my experience anyway.

I don't give a rat's ass how someone identifies....that's their deal....but, because I aligned my body with my heart & soul, does NOT mean I am a traitor to the lesbian community...I never WAS a lesbian...THEY perceived me that way so that's on them. Yep, we've all heard the...."Well, if you want to be a guy....." shit. The butches that don't get it the feminists that don't get it. I think it's GREAT that they are comfortabe being masculine in their female bodies....excellent...for them. It was NOT for me & never has been.

The LBGT community is discriminated against by society & why the fu*k there's such "in-fighting" amongst these groups I've never understood. People are afraid of what they don't understand. I have often wondered if some of the shit I've heard from masculine butches isn't envy in a way. <Figuring I may get a LOT of shit over that statement...lol> It's just something I've wondered is all.....not something I believe to be true....at least not all the time.

Anyway, somewhere out there is another mate for me who will encompass ALL the wonderful qualities of my ex-wife, & be even more of a match for me. When I'm ready.......

I have to agree with weatherboi on this one. Regardless of one's experience we cannot paint that brush against the whole of a group (largely because there is no way we've met everyone). That's no different than someone assuming we're all assholes because of one or more FTMs acting like assholes. Guilt by association is the wrong attitude, IMO, to take towards this. Rather than rant about what happened and do a "who is me, how horrible things were", why not rise above it and go beyond?

I think we sometimes forget the fine line that we have when discussing experiences versus making it sound like hatred or an -ism. By virtue of being male, some of how we describe our experience may come out as an -ism (whether intentional or not).

I think we have to speak entirely for ourselves and not for what others may or may not feel (that is, speak from the *I* place and not "them", "they", etc.). I cannot speak for nor would I attempt to speak for those who support me or are against me. Have I felt that kind of hatred? Yes. There are some who are like that. Is it the majority of who exists out there? No. Because I haven't met them all, only a small subset. But I wouldn't assume that everyone I've met is part of that subset either until they show me they are.

Your experience is important, Dabonaire. It has added to who you are but how we express that experience can either paint a whole group one way or another.

[DMW]

I thought we were leaving the other thread out of this DMW???

What I see you doing is kinda like pitting femmes against each other I think and maybe we should rethink that. Many femmes participated over there and all of them understand our plights greatly. I find it insulting considering my pookie bear was participating over there and you need to stop. It is unwelcoming and you are the OP.

weatherboi, i didn't mean any disrespect to any of the other femmes from that thread. Nor, to you. And that is true...i should not have mentioned it. I honestly, was just happy for the couple that they understand one another so well. maybe i will ask for this space to be taken off. i almost did yesterday. I am sorry that i upset you. I am not pitting anyone against anyone...i was just trying to take away some of the stress by starting a new thread here. Not to perpetuate drama or to add to it.

If the thread gets taken down...that is ok by me. I don't want the responsibility of the OP...or claim that this space is mine to police or what have you. I am not a moderator. I will let them have at it or ask them to close the thread myself. Seriously, it's all good to me. I am not coming from an angry place or anything like that. Just sayin

[Linus]

And just so that people realize this: the creation of this thread has made it one of the most watched thread by not just FTMs but others. This isn't a private thread.

Remember that when posting.

[Linus]

weatherboi, i didn't mean any disrespect to any of the other femmes from that thread. Nor, to you. And that is true...i should not have mentioned it. maybe i will ask for this space to be taken off. i almost did yesterday. I am sorry that i upset you. I am not pitting anyone against anyone...i was just trying to take away some of the stress.
If the thread gets taken down...that is ok by me. I don't want the responsibility of the OP...or claim that this space is mine to police or what have you. I am not a moderator. I will let them have at it or ask them to close the thread myself. Seriously, it's all good to me. I am not coming from an angry place or anything like that. Just sayin

And I don't want this thread shut down. I mentioned this yesterday to the moderation team how right now I was feeling unwelcomed in my own community. Now, granted that part of that is due to my own busy life and such but at the same time, there are things here that I think are due to a huge lack of us carving out our own sense of community or existence (or however it could be termed).

I think we need this space. Transmen tend to fade into the woodwork. It's easier for us. The transforums I've run into a run by transwomen and are geared more for transwomen. There is space for us there but it's overwhelming leaned towards one side. For me, I have a history with this community and I personally taking a stand that we not fade into the woodwork.

We need to do the work, the sweat, the tears (although crying has stopped for me since beginning T; anyone else?!), the blood and so on. We have an experience that needs to be shared but needs to be done so without "othering".. well.. others. We need to build our history.

I want a community that I can belong to and feel safe with, dammit. And if it's not here, then I'm screwed.

So rather than give up, who else will stand?

[Dude]

. I have often wondered if some of the shit I've heard from masculine butches isn't envy in a way. <Figuring I may get a LOT of shit over that statement...lol> It's just something I've wondered is all.....not something I believe to be true....at least not all the time.

.

scratches you off the list of Ftm's I want to support.
To say something like this figuring you will get shit
but saying it anyway is way off base and
speaks to your self esteem issues not mine or anyone else's.

No envy here.
This is where the line in the sand gets drawn , for me.
Completely content being the butch that I am.
Crap talk like this does nothing to foster allies or friendships.

[weatherboi]

No worries DMW really!
I want to see this thread be successful. We are all equal peers here and trying to navigate individual rides.

weatherboi, i didn't mean any disrespect to any of the other femmes from that thread. Nor, to you. And that is true...i should not have mentioned it. maybe i will ask for this space to be taken off. i almost did yesterday. I am sorry that i upset you. I am not pitting anyone against anyone...i was just trying to take away some of the stress.
If the thread gets taken down...that is ok by me. I don't want the responsibility of the OP...or claim that this space is mine to police or what have you. I am not a moderator. I will let them have at it or ask them to close the thread myself. Seriously, it's all good to me. I am not coming from an angry place or anything like that. Just sayin

[DMW]

Linus i am sorry, and i am sorry that i hurt weatherboi's feelings.
I thought about how the thread should have been started at a less emotionally charged time. If the moderators have to give me a time out that is ok by me. I will not ask them to shut down the thread.
I realize that the TOS says don't bring drama from one thread to another.
I didn't realize that saying something positive about one person would also bother someone else. That is sad. I will be very careful with what i say and i will also take a timeout if it has to be given.
That is ok. This thread should not be taken away from everyone because of a few people.

Thank you weatherboi...i am sorry. I honestly didn't realize that what i said about another thread could be misconstrued as rude. eventhough it was positive. I truly am sorry for that. Thank you for talking to me about it...i got some added time before work cause of this. I don't like hurting peoples feelings. Thank you

[Linus]

Linus i am sorry, and i am sorry that i hurt weatherboi's feelings.
I thought about how the tread should have been started at a less emotionally charged time. If the moderators have to give me a time out that is ok by me. I will not ask them to shut down the thread.
I realize that the TOS says don't bring drama from one thread to another.
I didn't realize that saying something positive about one person would also bother someone else. That is sad. I will be very careful with what i say and i will also take a timeout if it has to be given.
That is ok. This thread should not be taken away from everyone because of a few people.

It's ok. Just remember context is everything.

[Darbonaire]

Let me understand this cause I am NOT out to hurt anyone's feelings or cast aspersions....<walking on eggshells is SO much fun>....

So, let me emphasize this loudly & clearly please..I thought this was a place to share PERSONAL experiences....No, I have NOT found these things to be with every butch, or every FTM, or every Femme or whatever....these are experiences that have happened to me in REAL LIFE so no....no one on here is lumped into any catagory....not by me anyway...or should I say...not with ANY intent by me.

We have ALL experienced different shit in different places & at different times in our life. For some of you to jump on my post saying you don't support me..<like I give a shit btw whether you do or not...whoever you are>.....amuses me. That is your right..yes it is....so I support that. For the others who jumped to say I am disrespecting a GROUP or ALL of the butches, trans, etc. is not true & maybe if you didn't take a personal post from me as some personal affront to you...things would smooth out like they should.

These kinds of exchanges are the perfect examples of why I am not all that hot to post anything or even be on an online site. Written words cannot convey expression or inflection....they are read & "inturpreted" by those reading them. Sometimes the way they are meant...often not however.

So, let me say once again...& most likely for the last time...I am not here to offend, discriminate, cast aspersions upon or any other crap...I am here to share what I have found PERSONALLY in my journey.

So, how about those Braves?

[weatherboi]

Linus i am sorry, and i am sorry that i hurt weatherboi's feelings.
I thought about how the thread should have been started at a less emotionally charged time. If the moderators have to give me a time out that is ok by me. I will not ask them to shut down the thread.
I realize that the TOS says don't bring drama from one thread to another.
I didn't realize that saying something positive about one person would also bother someone else. That is sad. I will be very careful with what i say and i will also take a timeout if it has to be given.
That is ok. This thread should not be taken away from everyone because of a few people.
Thank you weatherboi...i am sorry. I honestly didn't realize that what i said about another thread could be misconstrued as rude. eventhough it was positive. I truly am sorry for that. Thank you for talking to me about it...i got some added time before work cause of this. I don't like hurting peoples feelings. Thank you

And i now realize that your femme was the femme that understood so well from the other thread

Hey DMW-

I want to thank you for the dialogue and hope you understand after this I am ready to let all this go but

Let me be clear so you understand where I am coming from cause you seem to be missing it.

I have no problem you giving props to femmesational for her understanding of everything. I have no problem giving her props for her support of transfolk. My problem is while you are complimenting one femme you are using it in a way that insults others. Linus is right...context is everything and so is agenda and sometimes that dictates how we say things so I hope we can move forward here understanding what the problem really was. One slip up is one thing to me, but it has now been a few and you are not the only one doing it so I don't blame me questioning motivation, at this point I am guarded but ready to move forward...no more apologies just move forward.

[Greyson]

I agree with Linus and weatherboi about context. Most of the guys who have been here awhile know I I.D. as Transmasculine. Being a life long Butch was very much a part of my journey getting to this point in my gender identity.

For me, once I started the process of transitioning I could no longer ignore that little voice in me that kept asking "Why?" I never identified as a "Woman Identified Butch." In my old thinking a Butch was clearly not a woman in the same sense as Femmes and other women.

I have been a member of the Butch-Femme sites for 12 or 13 years now. I have learned that not all Butches had the same experience or thinking that I did. That also is the same for Transmen. I have been legally a male for a little over three years now and my gender identity is not over.

Back to the "Why" of this. In finally deciding to "transition" for me I had to explore if there was self internalized misoginy involved in my decision. Honestly I did not think there was. I tried to take a hard and focused look as to what growing up in my country has taught me. What is the media, books, movies, "values," traditions, law, policy, religion saying now and historically about women? IMO it is saying, overall that women are meant to be in service to the greater good, sacrafice self if necessary, and raise families. I think women overall through out history were relegated to very pre-defined lives.

What I ultimately had to ask myself is how much of this stuff did I believe on some level? How did my actions, thoughts, biases, and words align with what I thought I believed?

[Hominid]

I'm not sure *I* see "lesbian and butch bashing" - at least up to this post; every reference has been qualified with "some" and the like. It is part of many of our experiences that we are ostracized, sometimes outright, sometimes subtly. It needs to be okay for us to talk about; I hate to keep using the same analogy, but there are many threads that involve how femmes are invisible or ostracized often in the community - I don't see this as any different.

I also want to compliment this site - it is not the "community" I speak of.
I really don't want to see this descend into defensive garbage. We are ALL discriminated against by EVERY type of person often. Here, we are talking about the ftm experience. It isn't exclusive to anyone else's pain, it's just topical and very personal. Saying "butches and lesbians seem to have more of a problem with me" is NOT butch and lesbian bashing - it is a statement of fact for that person.

However, I really am glad one of us made this comment - we need to be responsible and careful and self-police.

Woah woah woah!!!

wtf??? I get we all have some pretty hard experiences in AND out of our own community and it needs to be talked about, but all the lesbian and butch bashing in this thread is gonna get moderated and then we will have no space to talk things out..

[Hominid]

This is great - exactly what I struggled with for a few years before transition. I was afraid I was leaning towards transition for the wrong reasons - thanks for saying this clearly.

I had to explore if there was self internalized misoginy involved in my decision. Honestly I did not think there was. I tried to take a hard and focused look as to what growing up in my country has taught me. What is the media, books, movies, "values," traditions, law, policy, religion saying now and historically about women?
What I ultimately had to ask myself is how much of this stuff did I believe on some level? How did my actions, thoughts, biases, and words align with what I thought I believed?

[Mike]

reading, bbl

[Linus]

I'm not sure *I* see "lesbian and butch bashing" - at least up to this post; every reference has been qualified with "some" and the like. It is part of many of our experiences that we are ostracized, sometimes outright, sometimes subtly. It needs to be okay for us to talk about; I hate to keep using the same analogy, but there are many threads that involve how femmes are invisible or ostracized often in the community - I don't see this as any different.

I also want to compliment this site - it is not the "community" I speak of.
I really don't want to see this descend into defensive garbage. We are ALL discriminated against by EVERY type of person often. Here, we are talking about the ftm experience. It isn't exclusive to anyone else's pain, it's just topical and very personal. Saying "butches and lesbians seem to have more of a problem with me" is NOT butch and lesbian bashing - it is a statement of fact for that person.

However, I really am glad one of us made this comment - we need to be responsible and careful and self-police.

We do need to self-police. We need to recognize the experiences but rather than navel gaze them to death figure out how to prevent those same experiences from happening to those starting their experience. Not all FTMs come from a lesbian/F&B background. This community has been a supporter of trans individuals and even banned one of the most known transphobic individuals out there.

But I find that kind of person is rarer in this community than common. It sucks that this has happened to some of us (I had my share but not enough to be so vehement about it). I cannot change those individuals but I can be part of this community and let them see me for the man I am rather than what might be assumed about me.

I agree with Linus and weatherboi about context. Most of the guys who have been here awhile know I I.D. as Transmasculine. Being a life long Butch was very much a part of my journey getting to this point in my gender identity.

For me, once I started the process of transitioning I could no longer ignore that little voice in me that kept asking "Why?" I never identified as a "Woman Identified Butch." In my old thinking a Butch was clearly not a woman in the same sense as Femmes and other women.

I have been a member of the Butch-Femme sites for 12 or 13 years now. I have learned that not all Butches had the same experience or thinking that I did. That also is the same for Transmen. I have been legally a male for a little over three years now and my gender identity is not over.

Back to the "Why" of this. In finally deciding to "transition" for me I had to explore if there was self internalized misoginy involved in my decision. Honestly I did not think there was. I tried to take a hard and focused look as to what growing up in my country has taught me. What is the media, books, movies, "values," traditions, law, policy, religion saying now and historically about women? IMO it is saying, overall that women are meant to be in service to the greater good, sacrafice self if necessary, and raise families. I think women overall through out history were relegated to very pre-defined lives.

What I ultimately had to ask myself is how much of this stuff did I believe on some level? How did my actions, thoughts, biases, and words align with what I thought I believed?

Agreed on this. It's one of the reasons I started a thread on the idea about whether transman who transition are self-misogynistic. I know in some way I am in that I dislike my personal woman bits but that's my dysphoria/GID speaking rather than a hatred of women. Like you, I had to question whether there was more to it than just that. I refuse to be like cis-men and do not want to be compared to them. I am my own man and so much more than that.



Let me understand this cause I am NOT out to hurt anyone's feelings or cast aspersions....<walking on eggshells is SO much fun>....

Thing is, I don't believe we need to walk on egg shells. I've said it already and I'll say it again. Because this thread was "born" out of another discussion that was already hugely heated it's being watched like a hawk more so. In fact, IMO, there is a higher expectation on transmen than others because of what some would believe our experience to be (never mind that we all have very differing backgrounds from that of a living a straight female life to those living lesbian and those living femme).

It's unfortunate that transmen do face some of this kind of discrimination or animosity from other parts of the LGBTQ community (gay transmen that I know have commented how the gay community doesn't quite accept them either and neither do the straight men they may have dated in the past). But I'd like to believe that in this community of people the majority are supportive (we have over 4,000 and I've probably interacted with about 600 of that so I can't comment either way for the remaining but I'd like to believe they are just as supportive).

So rather than dwell on those who won't support us or what out right hate us, I'd rather hang out and get to know those will support us and like us. Will we ever be able to stop anyone from not liking us because we're transmen? No. There will always be those that dislike us because of who are. But I always try to make sure that it's not because of what I personally do or say (that doesn't mean toeing some line or walking on eggshells -- it just means being aware of the fact that there is more to the world than just me).


To that end, one of my biggest challenges is being seen as a man and not in the same light as a cis-gendered man. I likely don't have the same experience in my life as many cis-gendered men do. And the way people treated me in my female life before effected that experience. I often wonder how different I would be had I started my transition when I was in my 20s compared to doing it now in my early 40s. Already I feel like I've lived two lives, almost like a reincarnation (maybe that's what is meant by reincarnation).

[ruffryder]

...

And there is one thing I was curious about because I've seen this from both sides: I know there are many femmes who are interested/intrigued/turned on by FTMs and many FTMs who are reciprocal to this (myself included). What I'm curious about are those FTMs who are here in this community (and others like it) and interested in straight-women as opposed to femmes in this community (and others like it)?

I am not interested in straight women as opposed to femmes. I see women as women, no matter how they may identify. Some femmes feel invisibility about their identity and "pass" as straight where some FTM may "pass" as straight males also. For me and I guess what I'm trying to say is woman is woman and man is man for sake of the two genders. Of course there are lots of other gender identities and some FTM may not even ID as male but instead transgender, third gender, FTM, etc.. If one is FTM I'm gonna view him as male, just my opinion - "Female to Male" unless he lets me know otherwise.

Anyway, as far as women go (straight or femme) if she has an interest in me and who I am then I'm interested in her and like I've said it's "women" I'm interested in and not how they may identify. I've dated women all across the spectrum from queer, femme, bi, straight, dyke, lesbian. As long as they get me and understand where I'm coming from I have no issues dating any woman across the spectrum (well not now because I'm happily in a relationship :)) Do femme women understand FTM better than a straight woman? Maybe, but not in my experience. It all depends how they view the FTM and if you general have decided to share that part of you. We can't assume everyone including our own community knows what an FTM is.


I get what you're saying. All of our friends are straight as well. Comes with territory of area we live in but also the gay folks that do live near there really won't have anything to do with us because of the whole FTM/femme status. I guess they think we're "traitors" to our own kind? Lol. Whatever their deal is, we don't worry about it and actually love our straight friends. Only one of them (Julie's best friend) really gets it I think. The rest just kinda get that glazed over look in their eyes then pretend they never heard any of it. Go figure.

I was born and lived in a small midwestern community, one of the states where Brandon Teena was killed for being a transgender. A lot of my friends were and are straight also. I dated a straight woman for 3 years and we lived together as a couple. Our friends understood us and knew me as the male counterpart in the relationship. They had no issues with it whatsoever. I appreciated their willingness to learn about FTM and their acceptance and it made me happy that if they messed up on a pronoun they were quick to fix that. They saw me as just another guy. Thankfully, I have not run into people that are hateful about it or dont' agree with it. I'm more scared of this happening here in the good ol south of FL. I share my life of an FTM with people that are close to me, employers, some coworkers and others that I trust and want close in my life.

I've ran into femmes that aren't sure about FTMs and how they identify. They have made mistakes calling me her, she, girl.. and It blew me away.. I somehow get more upset when this happens in our own community then if a straight identifying person would mess that up. Has anyone ran into that also? and
another question to you all is, do you think femme women understand FTM better than a straight woman or vice versa? What are your experiences with this?

and.. another question yet, Who do you share that you are an FTM with and do you explain it or do you just let others assume you are butch, lesbian or a straight male or however they may view or perceive you?

[Hominid]

and.. another question yet, Who do you share that you are an FTM with and do you explain it or do you just let others assume you are butch, lesbian or a straight male or however they may view or perceive you?

I don't tell anyone usually. I had to tell my back doctor, who was sitting and looking at my MRI (which clearly showed my hoo-ha) -he was trying to tell me that some of my symptoms might be my prostate.

I didn't move, I kept the same job during transition, my kids started out with two moms in the same school system - so people know. It's just been so long I'm not sure who knows and who doesn't. The occasions for telling people are practically non-existent. I haven't tried to date anyone I've met, so haven't had to deal with that, and on a few dating sites I say I have transitioned in my profile.

[ruffryder]

I don't tell anyone usually. I had to tell my back doctor, who was sitting and looking at my MRI (which clearly showed my hoo-ha) -he was trying to tell me that some of my symptoms might be my prostate. .


hehe.. this reminded me of the couple times at the airport when I had to go through the tsa body scanner. both times they made me go back through and then they called me sir. I just walked away smiling. (I am pre op)

[Linus]

hehe.. this reminded me of the couple times at the airport when I had to go through the tsa body scanner. both times they made me go back through and then they called me sir. I just walked away smiling. (I am pre op)


And they probably never comment on your ID (if it still has the other sex identifier on it?).

I have noticed, since post-op (top surgery), that the big body scanners require them to check my right pec. I think there is some weird scar tissue growth or something that some of them detect as an object. :blink:

[Tony]

Lovin this thread. I'm keeping up with reading it. Will add when I have more time. Great job! (we really did need this).

[weatherboi]

It is totally not cool to refer to butches as envious when it is only a guess about a group of peoples character. It is divisive at best with an air of insecurity on the part of the accuser. Self inflicted. Qualifiers don't give us a pass to say whatever we want to. If you read back to that post Darbonaire made, he was merely taking a side swiping guess about the envy. Shit stirring verbiage and he even admitted to it. I think he even insinuated that he didn't care. All this stuff is way overkill to describe an experience.

I am all for talking about trans invisibility. I feel a certain responsibility to remain visible within my community and out amoungst the masses. Here in Jacksonville just like everywhere else we are a minority within a minority. I watched the LGB part of our community use gender expression and identity as the bargaining chip to try and gain rights, so they took us out of the original bill under the list of people protected. 2012-296 was the bill and tried to push it forward.
I will never forget the day I read the addendum to the original bill. 2 reasons it felt shitty for me and silencing resulting in my own feelings of invisibility. The first was my clear lack of investment and support for my own rights. Secondly was how very clear to me that a certain aspect of my community that was willing to bargain with my rights because of my lack of involvement and their lack of education when advocating for me as an organization. The attitude was at all costs, some is better than nothing, and that they (HRC) would build on it.

I also experience trans invisibility within my own subculture of trans. I have guys that refer to me as butch because of their own shit. Recently we hosted a small dinner party and one of the transmen that attended kept referring to me as a butch. The dinner requires protocols so I had to navigate a conversation around antiquated beliefs revolved around creating hierarchy within the trans community. It worked for me in that situation. In other situations with less restrictions I tend to grab that kind of thinking and break it down to roadkill. This kind of internal transphobia pisses me off more than any other discriminatory experience I have been privy to. I don't like discourse from within but I am not afraid of confronting it and examining it. IMO it is the first place we should be starting.





I'm not sure *I* see "lesbian and butch bashing" - at least up to this post; every reference has been qualified with "some" and the like. It is part of many of our experiences that we are ostracized, sometimes outright, sometimes subtly. It needs to be okay for us to talk about; I hate to keep using the same analogy, but there are many threads that involve how femmes are invisible or ostracized often in the community - I don't see this as any different.

I also want to compliment this site - it is not the "community" I speak of.
I really don't want to see this descend into defensive garbage. We are ALL discriminated against by EVERY type of person often. Here, we are talking about the ftm experience. It isn't exclusive to anyone else's pain, it's just topical and very personal. Saying "butches and lesbians seem to have more of a problem with me" is NOT butch and lesbian bashing - it is a statement of fact for that person.

However, I really am glad one of us made this comment - we need to be responsible and careful and self-police.

[ruffryder]

And they probably never comment on your ID (if it still has the other sex identifier on it?).

I have noticed, since post-op (top surgery), that the big body scanners require them to check my right pec. I think there is some weird scar tissue growth or something that some of them detect as an object. :blink:


Maybe they just like checking pecs. Like I said I'm pre op, no top surgery here yet. That's where they seem to go with me.


They also checked my knee, I'm like what , I have metal in there I didn't know about? lol

Yeah, I think they are not allowed to question identity (male,female, etc) but still don't understand why they say ma'am, sir.. :blink: Usually by then though these people at the scan machine haven't seen my ID.

[ahk]

And I don't want this thread shut down. I mentioned this yesterday to the moderation team how right now I was feeling unwelcomed in my own community. Now, granted that part of that is due to my own busy life and such but at the same time, there are things here that I think are due to a huge lack of us carving out our own sense of community or existence (or however it could be termed).

I think we need this space. Transmen tend to fade into the woodwork. It's easier for us. The transforums I've run into a run by transwomen and are geared more for transwomen. There is space for us there but it's overwhelming leaned towards one side. For me, I have a history with this community and I personally taking a stand that we not fade into the woodwork.

We need to do the work, the sweat, the tears (although crying has stopped for me since beginning T; anyone else?!), the blood and so on. We have an experience that needs to be shared but needs to be done so without "othering".. well.. others. We need to build our history.

I want a community that I can belong to and feel safe with, dammit. And if it's not here, then I'm screwed.

So rather than give up, who else will stand?

I'll take the stand-- I get it. This is my community too-- though I had to leave for a bit because I was figuring out my own self after I had a weird breakup and start of a new relationship and an ending to a friendship that I looked up to greatly. But here I am -- back in a community where I feel I can be myself -- artistic and a sock lover. :sock:

[Linus]

Maybe they just like checking pecs. Like I said I'm pre op, no top surgery here yet. That's where they seem to go with me.


They also checked my knee, I'm like what , I have metal in there I didn't know about? lol

Yeah, I think they are not allowed to question identity (male,female, etc) but still don't understand why they say ma'am, sir.. :blink: Usually by then though these people at the scan machine haven't seen my ID.

The ones at the scanner should be different than those that see the image. There is one machine type where the outline is shown but it's non-gender specific so I suspect they just use cultural norms for the sake of politeness and trying to get people through as quickly as possible.

[ruffryder]

I know I've asked lots of questions to be answered already but here's more.. It will keep the thread busy :)



FTM visibility, invisibility - thoughts , share stories, experiences?

I just took our pup for a walk in our apt community and I'm friendly with our neighbors but don't really associate with them or "hang out" with them but I know most of them and some of their family members and of course, dogs.

Well across the way there is a lady about in her 30s maybe, white. I assume she is straight. She has a little dog called Marley (looks like a miniature of the dog in the movie Marley); so she takes it for a walk now and then and sometimes her family members do so i'm aware of them and who they are. I see her as I'm walking and she says, "Hello" I say, "Hello" back and she says, "Oh, she knows me (referring to our pup). She sees me out when she's with your wife." I just said "oh" and smiled.

So then I wonder does she think I'm male? Does she care? She obviously thinks me and my girl are married.. lol.

I wonder about the clothes I'm wearing (tshirt, long carpenter shorts, sneakers, a baseball cap) and wonder if that has something to do with portraying myself as male .. hmmm. Just wondering ..

[ahk]

Actually, I am tired of being mis-gendered, being referred to as "lady" or "ma'am" -- I don't get it. My voice is significantly deeper than my wife's voice, I dress nothing like a "lady" or a "ma'am", I walk different, I hold myself more masculine, but I'm still "ma'am'd"-- What gives?

( I really feel like I am in the "betweener" stage of transition (it sucks) actually )

[Greyson]

I have been on T for 3.5 years and there are times I still get referred to as ma'am or lady by strangers. Like ank in my head "What part of me looks like a lady? Really?" Then my head goes to Why does your gut clench when someone genders you as a woman? Subtle stuff but there.

I know it is not the same for other Trans guys. This is how it is for me. I claim a third gender sort of thing. I cannot let go of my past. I am a pragmatic sort and I think it is political for me. I do not want to be invisible in terms of my queerness. I do not want straight people or queers to assume I am a cisman. So, why did I transition? It felt right for me and I experienced something in my life that was the final blow. I wanted FULL and Equal rights in the eyes of the law. Enough for now.

[ruffryder]

Actually, I am tired of being mis-gendered, being referred to as "lady" or "ma'am" -- I don't get it. My voice is significantly deeper than my wife's voice, I dress nothing like a "lady" or a "ma'am", I walk different, I hold myself more masculine, but I'm still "ma'am'd"-- What gives?

( I really feel like I am in the "betweener" stage of transition (it sucks) actually )


Yeah I don't get that either. I can walk a mile and two different people will address me differently, one as ma'am, one as sir. . and it baffles me to hell. That's why I say I look at what I wear, what I'm doing at the moment, etc.. to try and figure it the hell out. Same as on the telephone. So now, I just try to speak deeper. lmfao! If all else fails, confuse the hell out of them!

Do we all use male restrooms here?

I tend more times than not. I get no second looks like I do if I was to go into a female restroom. Females are more aware of their surroundings in a restroom , want to use the mirror, powder up, hang out and wait for their kids, chat, check their messages, etc.. Men, they just want to do their business and get back to whatever it was they were doing.. yeah? SO I just bust in, same as the next male, do my business, wash my hands and get out. No questioning, no saying I'm in the wrong room, no second looks..

[Julien]

Actually, I am tired of being mis-gendered, being referred to as "lady" or "ma'am" -- I don't get it. My voice is significantly deeper than my wife's voice, I dress nothing like a "lady" or a "ma'am", I walk different, I hold myself more masculine, but I'm still "ma'am'd"-- What gives?

( I really feel like I am in the "betweener" stage of transition (it sucks) actually )

I can relate to the betweener stage as you put it. I get ma'am or sir depending on the person be it a man or woman. I think that men tend to sir me more often than women. It is embarrassing for them and awkward for me when they double check Me for sex markers ie breasts and change the sir to a ma'am. I'd be happy if they just left it like it was to begin with. Gender policing as I see it, especially in the South were ma'am and sir are used more often, than when I lived in the North.

[Greyson]

Speaking of the "Sir" word. Have any of you guys noticed how it makes you feel when you are referred to as "Sir?" I feel like I am being shown some respect, finally, by the larger world. Again, why is that? Why is the word "Ma'am" not emboldened in the same way (equal) to the word Sir? More of the little things that ramble through my mind.



I can relate to the betweener stage as you put it. I get ma'am or sir depending on the person be it a man or woman. I think that men tend to sir me more often than women. It is embarrassing for them and awkward for me when they double check Me for sex markers ie breasts and change the sir to a ma'am. I'd be happy if they just left it like it was to begin with. Gender policing as I see it, especially in the South were ma'am and sir are used more often, than when I lived in the North.

[ruffryder]

Do we all use male restrooms here?

I tend more times than not. I get no second looks like I do if I was to go into a female restroom. Females are more aware of their surroundings in a restroom , want to use the mirror, powder up, hang out and wait for their kids, chat, check their messages, etc.. Men, they just want to do their business and get back to whatever it was they were doing.. yeah? SO I just bust in, same as the next male, do my business, wash my hands and get out. No questioning, no saying I'm in the wrong room, no second looks..


I don't want to say all females are like this in the restroom and I'm sure there is probably the occassional male that does the same. Just to be clear, I'm not here to stereotype genders. Sorry folks. I had to reiterate this here. But having used both gender restrooms, I do notice that women tend to be more aware of their surroundings and will definitely notice if someone of the male variety enters and will check them or question them if not give them a second look.

[Liam]

Speaking of the "Sir" word. Have any of you guys noticed how it makes you feel when you are referred to as "Sir?" I feel like I am being shown some respect, finally, by the larger world. Again, why is that? Why is the word "Ma'am" not emboldened in the same way (equal) to the word Sir? More of the little things that ramble through my mind.

When I am referred to as "Sir," I feel like I am being seen more than being shown respect.

[ruffryder]

fellas does it ruffle your feathers when femmes or straight women compare you to hot bio males or is it a confidence boost and something you hope would happen?


I guess I'm just me, take me or leave me, but hell if I was compared to some hot dude I think it would turn me on a bit. Or say, if a female was to say you look like so and so (a bio male). Would you want to know why? hmmm..

more questions and hoping more answer my questions. heh.

[Corkey]

I hear ya' Liam. Being seen for me is more important than the giving of the sir. Being seen in my own community is even harder. I am seen and respected by those who are my chosen family.

[BrutalDaddy]

Weatherboi, you brought up something I had totally put away in my brain files with the issue of transphobia within our own "neighborhood". Sorry I didn't quote you but thoughts in head flying so fast, I didn't wanna lose chance for fingers to put them down before they dashed off. Lol.

In past posts I talk about feeling that shun from within the rainbow (my word for LGBTQ cause I don't always remember the alphabet :blush: ) but you brought up something that, for me, is even harder to deal with and that is being looked down on (for lack of better words) by other transmen. Even though it's never really happened to me in real life, it is a very real fear that I have. I don't know any FTMs that I've met face to face and for longest time I figured it's all about the area we live in but sitting here, letting myself self evaluate while reading all this has made me realize just how afraid I am to meet other FTMs. That's a mind boggling moment for me right now.

I think a huge part of it is my own issue though. I get called Ma'am and she so often, especially when hair gets long, that I start to allow it to affect my own view of myself. I start becoming my own worst enemy because then I (my soul and true self) begins to become invisible to me. Now it doesn't matter if others don't see that I'm FTM or just flat out male because I don't even see myself that way, whether consciously or subconsciously.

I think it plays a really big part in my "chest thumping" moments because I feel I have to "show" an abundance of male energy in order for the real me to be seen. It's also the reason I want so damn strongly to begin the transition process. To the point that I get angry and frustrated sometimes. I know it's my issue, not anyone else's because I am allowing myself to fall for what society wants me to feel/think/see. With you bringing up transphobia within our own group, I can see how I sometimes even put it on myself.

NOw don't get me wrong. Never do I doubt what my soul is. I KNOW 100% I am a man. No question about that. I just start questioning whether what others (and myself) see when looking at me. Hence the chest thumping. Also why I think I'm realizing how scared/nervous I actually am of meeting other FTMs in person. For so long I have had to contend with female pronouns, within family, within work (even the job I have now, I have to go by my birth name for DOT purposes). I worry that when others will see me, meet me, they will not see the man that is in me.

Wow. Never really had that nerve struck/thought provoked but thank you weatherboi. Seriously, I did not truly realize how engrained that fear is but it's there so it's something I need to address for myself. Thank you. Done rambling now. Thanks.

Brute.

[Liam]

fellas does it ruffle your feathers when femmes or straight women compare you to hot bio males or is it a confidence boost and something you hope would happen?


I guess I'm just me, take me or leave me, but hell if I was compared to some hot dude I think it would turn me on a bit. Or say, if a female was to say you look like so and so (a bio male). Would you want to know why? hmmm..

more questions and hoping more answer my questions. heh.

I think that I am told on a daily basis that I am hot, and comparisons are not made. I'm glad she thinks I'm hot, it makes me smile.

[Greyson]

I think that I am told on a daily basis that I am hot, and comparisons are not made. I'm glad she thinks I'm hot, it makes me smile.

Yes, I am told often by my girlfriend that she thinks I am a hottie. The thing is, I don't believe it about myself. I struggle with fluxuations in my body weight. Always have since the day I was born. I was the heavier twin. Oops that is another thread.

And this brings to mind another thing I noticed when I was a child in elementary school. Why is it that men can be rather obese and still found desirable, sexual? Take a look around guys. What is in the movies, in real life? Big guys are referred to as "Big Guys, Portly, Strong." Large women get terms like "Fat B__tch, I wouldn't poke that......." You guys know the drill. How many times may we have discounted a woman because of her size? (You can throw in age with that too.)

[Darbonaire]

ALWAYS for over 10 years now.

[weatherboi]

When I met Snow I was on my was on my way to being anorexic from dysphoria. The more weight I lost the more I passed and no amount of weights I lifted or running I did was keeping up with the amount of weight I was losing and the gaunt appearance I was taking on. I wasn't seeing that. I was hyper focused with doing drive by quick glances in the mirror so I could get that validation from my physical appearance finally meeting up with what my brain sees I am. I was limiting my nutrition and doubling up on working out. I was breaking out all over and my asthma was at an all time high. One of the many dyphoric vortexes that I have been able to recognize over the years. Someone had asked earlier in the thread how the femmes/women in our lives have helped support us. Snow helped me out of that vortex. My body weight is now something I try not to make a big deal out of or I will get all caught up and starve myself. Other people battle dysphoria?

I get told I am hot in many different ways and I am glad I don't get compared to bio guys. Part of my dysphoria revolves around my disconnect with how I look in my head and how I look to the world.

Yes I use the mens bathroom and have been for some years. I always use a stall now. I have tried STP's and they all seem to malfunction eventually.

[Guy]

I tend to use the Woman's room and try not to get noticed.

Only because it's usually cleaner.

(just my observation. I am by no means suggesting this is true in all cases)

[BrutalDaddy]

Damn I love this thread. Seriously guys. Y'all have no idea just how much it is enlightening me and giving me courage to face my own demons, hopes, aspirations and desires.

Because of this thread, I am feeling a connection that I haven't felt with another guy(s) in a long time, if ever. It's like I get so wrapped up in my every day struggles that I tend to forget others go through the exact same struggle every day of their own lives. That I am not the only FTM out there who is viewed based on what gender they physically born into, regardless of how much it doesn't match up with what our brain and soul sees. I totally got the above but sometimes I let my own "suffering" become my center focus until I forget that I am not alone.

Often I'd find myself looking at pics of FTMs and wishing I could just "look like that". Weatherboi, your post brought reality screaming back to me and I am so fucking grateful to you for that. Thank you from bottom of my heart for sharing that about yourself. Thank you to all of you who are sharing. It's like chicken soup for the trans soul. Lol. Even when I didn't realize I needed to hear it. For years I struggled with addiction. Anything that'd make me not have to think about what I look like or what society sees. Anger and resentment towards the world were my close friends. Still are sometimes if I'm not careful.

Okay seriously am rambling so will shut up for now but one last thing before I do. Weatherboi, I couldn't rep you again for some reason so I'll just say it here. Your post about dysphoria made me tear up because I can relate with every fiber of my being. Thank you and I look forward to meeting you as well as all the other guys one day.


Loving This Thread,
Brute.

[Greyson]

Damn I love this thread. Seriously guys. Y'all have no idea just how much it is enlightening me and giving me courage to face my own demons, hopes, aspirations and desires.

Because of this thread, I am feeling a connection that I haven't felt with another guy(s) in a long time, if ever. It's like I get so wrapped up in my every day struggles that I tend to forget others go through the exact same struggle every day of their own lives. That I am not the only FTM out there who is viewed based on what gender they physically born into, regardless of how much it doesn't match up with what our brain and soul sees. I totally got the above but sometimes I let my own "suffering" become my center focus until I forget that I am not alone.

Often I'd find myself looking at pics of FTMs and wishing I could just "look like that". Weatherboi, your post brought reality screaming back to me and I am so fucking grateful to you for that. Thank you from bottom of my heart for sharing that about yourself. Thank you to all of you who are sharing. It's like chicken soup for the trans soul. Lol. Even when I didn't realize I needed to hear it. For years I struggled with addiction. Anything that'd make me not have to think about what I look like or what society sees. Anger and resentment towards the world were my close friends. Still are sometimes if I'm not careful.
Okay seriously am rambling so will shut up for now but one last thing before I do. Weatherboi, I couldn't rep you again for some reason so I'll just say it here. Your post about dysphoria made me tear up because I can relate with every fiber of my being. Thank you and I look forward to meeting you as well as all the other guys one day.


Loving This Thread,
Brute.

Brutal, thanks for opening up more. I don't think I have ever seen you post as much like I have in the last few days. It's great getting to know some of you guys in a much more below the surface way.

Addiction, anger management, domestic violence in our community is something I have ponder for a few years. Another very sensitive area.

[Darbonaire]

I know that in the puberty years I put on weight to "hide" the girl body...it didn't work of course....lol....& now it's HELL to take it off. I remember when I had my top surgery...My God I was the happiest man alive....lol...ask my ex...she went through it with me & wow...I was on top of the world. There's a pic of me walking the grandbaby in my boxers & no shirt......lololol....maybe that's TMI..sorry....

I've never had any of this discomfort with my body...yep, I'm overweight & am changing it slowly...but, I have always looked male even before transition & others have verified this, so it's not just me thinking that. When I look in the mirror now I see a handsome guy looking back. I LOVE my beard....LOVE my chest...hate my back hair....LOL...but, generally..I've always known I was a guy.....it's nice to be aligned now. I began the change at 30 years old & I am a bit envious of these young guys who are starting in their 20's.....but, we all go at our own pace.

Just be comfotable inside & let yoursefl BE who you are......nothing has to go at any pace other than what is right for you as an individual.

I love this thread too....

Jonathan

[BrutalDaddy]

Brutal, thanks for opening up more. I don't think I have ever seen you post as much like I have in the last few days. It's great getting to know some of you guys in a much more below the surface way.

Addiction, anger management, domestic violence in our community is something I have ponder for a few years. Another very sensitive area.


Thanks Greyson. I feel like I'm babbling all over the place. Lol. I completely agree with it being great getting to know others on a deeper level.

You know what, you're right. Those are issues I have never seen discussed here or on other site for that matter. Well except friend of Bill W. thread. Always thought I was an addict cause I wasn't a good person. When in reality it is because I couldn't cope with the reality of my situation which is I was born in the wrong body for whatever reason.


Awesome Points,
Brute.

[weatherboi]

It is funny you bring up anger management and domestic violence. I recently heard of an acquaintance that is struggling and after asking around about resources and talking to friends have realized the need for resources tackling these very problems you mention. I believe but have no statistics to back it up that these problems may be on the rise within our community. It is definitely something to examine.


Brutal, thanks for opening up more. I don't think I have ever seen you post as much like I have in the last few days. It's great getting to know some of you guys in a much more below the surface way.

Addiction, anger management, domestic violence in our community is something I have ponder for a few years. Another very sensitive area.

[DMW]

Hello All,

I am going to put this FAQ post in the thread so that i have a quick reference to the TOS and for a personal reminder. In addition, others within this thread can see it and use it too.

I am glad that people have been enjoying the thread. Thank you for
all of your postitive Thank you notes.

And wow, i will never catch up to reading all of these...



Reporting Posts - FAQ
Hi Folks -

We've had a couple of issues pop up over the last several weeks with reported posts so I wanted to post a thread with a few reminders:


1. When To Report a Post

You can report a post anywhere on the forums *except* for the Red Zone. The Red Zone is set up as a non-moderated area and we will not respond to or moderate posts in that area unless someone has made a threat of some kind.

You may choose to report posts that are against the TOS or that you think are harmful to the community in some way.

Please remember that if you see a post that really pisses you off, you have a choice to either engage directly with the person who made it OR you can report it but if you do both, we more than likely will not moderate your report.

2. What Admins and Moderators "See" on the Site

We have in excess of 1000 posts per day here, sometimes a lot more than that. Please remember that the Admins and Moderators do not see every post that has been made on the site so you should not assume that we saw a post and are "ok" with whatever was posted.

We have encountered several situations where someone gets moderated and then replies to us with "Well, so and so said x, y, z last week and you did nothing so this isn't fair!".
My first question to you will be, "Did you report the post?"
If you did not report the post, then please do not assume we saw it.


3. Against the TOS/ Not Against the TOS

Our TOS is pretty clear but there will be times that issues are more of a gray area and we have to use our best judgment on what to moderate.

Things like hateful postings, racist or sizist posts, or things that are blatantly ugly will, unquestionably, be moderated.

Other things like passive-aggressive postings or "poking"-type posts will be dealt with provided we can clearly determine that one member is targeting another.
If you report a post and have to draw us a map or give us lots of explanation or 5 years of history to convince us that the post is about you, we more than likely will not moderate it.

For example:

We *will* moderate this post:
Person A: "My most recent ex girlfriend ate kittens every morning and then crapped her pants on the way to work!"

This post would get moderated if you and your "ex" were posting love notes to each other a week ago on the site or had identifying information in profiles such as "Medusa's Lover!" so that people would know that you were talking about Medusa in the post above.

We *will not* moderate this post:
Person A: "I can't stand shrimp soup. It makes me gag!"

If you report the post and tell us that you and person A had shrimp soup on your first date and that they are only posting it to poke at you, then how would anyone but you and the other person know that?

We get that people can be very crafty with posting things under the wire and we will not always be able to moderate those things.
Our litmus test is to read the post in a vaccuum and ask ourselves: "Would this post catch our attention if we didn't know the backstory?"

If you find that someone is poking at you but doing it under the wire, please put them on ignore. Our biggest trouble is getting people who do not like one another to put each other on ignore.

With all this being said, we do not want people behaving like assholes and jabbing at their exes and trying to be so sneaky that they think nobody else will know. If it comes down to us seeing a trail of posts that are "borderline", that person will probably be getting a note from us.


4. Response Time for Moderations

If you report a post, PLEASE consider that the Admins and Moderators will get to it as soon as they can. If we are very busy in our personal lives or if there have been a bunch of reported posts lately, it might take up to a day for us to respond. We generally try to respond to reports as soon as they happen but this is not always possible and we appreciate people being patient.

If you report a post and don't get a response within a couple of hours or haven't seen us address it publically, please do not assume you are being "ignored" or that your post isnt being looked at. Sometimes we are just stuck in meetings, or asleep, or busy tapping down drama that never makes it to the front page of the site.

5. Gallery and Chat Reports

If something happens in the chat room and you think we need to know about it, please contact us with the usernames of the people involved and the date and time that it happened.
Jackhammer reviews the chat logs every morning and we have been addressing some issues in private. Scorp is our chat room Moderator and you can contact her with any concerns via private message or feel free to send your concerns to me or any of the other Moderators.

If you need to report a gallery photo, there is a "report photo" button on every picture. Please remember that nudity of any kind is not allowed in our galleries or in photo threads.


I hope that this helps! As always, we are open for questions or clarifications and appreciate all of you!

Thanks!
Angie
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[DMW]

Weatherboi, thanks for your reply. I also agree to let all of the past posts go too. I can agree to that. I think it is best for everyone here and the site
Thanks


Hey DMW-
I want to thank you for the dialogue and hope you understand after this I am ready to let all this go

I got a lot to do tonight so i won't be able to read what i have missed.
Maybe if i free up some time i will be able to.

[Greyson]

weatherboi, I am unsure if domestic violence and anger management issues are on the rise or if it is much more openly talked about in the Queer community. Back in the 80s I went into a Lesbian Recovery Residential Program in Los Angeles. There was an assumption that "Butches" were most likely the offenders in regards to violence and I have heard similar reasoning in regards to FTMs being excessively aggressive as a result of taking T.

I don't want to get into the blame game. I do want to bring these topics out of the closet and discussed openly. I have observed some cultural differences in what one might consider violence. I am not talking about physical violence. I am talking about things like yelling verses talking. Face gestures, body language.

Domestic Violence does exist in the LGBTQ Community. How can we change it? I don't think it is as easy as shunning a person or persons of a specific gender or gender expression. Abusers do not deserve to be placated with no consequences.I think there should be restitution by the abuser and rehabilitation for some, not all.

I suspect there are members here that have hit, and emotionally abused their partners. I do not believe that is necessarily something they want to examine and come out with it. BTW, a few years back there was a couple in Texas. It was a Transman that was charged with the murder of his femme partner. I believe they were members with many of us over on the old site. Did anyone ever follow up on this? Did our community learn anything from this tragedy?



It is funny you bring up anger management and domestic violence. I recently heard of an acquaintance that is struggling and after asking around about resources and talking to friends have realized the need for resources tackling these very problems you mention. I believe but have no statistics to back it up that these problems may be on the rise within our community. It is definitely something to examine.

[Hominid]

It is totally not cool to refer to butches as envious when it is only a guess about a group of peoples character. It is divisive at best with an air of insecurity on the part of the accuser. Self inflicted. Qualifiers don't give us a pass to say whatever we want to. If you read back to that post Darbonaire made, he was merely taking a side swiping guess about the envy. Shit stirring verbiage and he even admitted to it. I think he even insinuated that he didn't care. All this stuff is way overkill to describe an experience.
.

It IS cool if it's how it seems, and if the person posting says that's how it seems to him with *some* butches - which is, I believe the case. It's perfectly legitimate to discuss whether that perception is correct.

In MY case, and MY case alone, the four butches I have known well enough to process with have TOLD me that PART of their issue was jealousy - and through further processing of the kind discussed a little earlier (reflecting on whether the desire to transition was some form of misogyny) they came to a different place than I did. I was told by these friends that my transitioning forced them to consider that they could be male if they wanted, and part of that process for them was feeling that it would be too difficult, too hard to deal with in their lives, and this made them angry and jealous - for a period of time. Of course, it was one small part of their own process, but it did exist, and important for us to discuss because it came between us. I do NOT feel that all butches go through this or feel this way - nor do I even have an opinion on how many might - I only know it CAN be so - and is usually transient.

That said, there are times when PARTS of me hearken for the simpler days of being a young, hot butch and be admired by the community.

[Hominid]

fellas does it ruffle your feathers when femmes or straight women compare you to hot bio males or is it a confidence boost and something you hope would happen?
.

I love it. The last was Jack Nicholson - after I looked horrified, she said in his younger days. I don't believe her. But I'll take it - not really because he's a born-male, but because the last few years have been the first time in my life anyone has compared me to anyone at all. It grounds me and gives me a sense of how I am perceived, a mirror. The dysphoria doesn't end so much, at least for me, with transition. People have a very clear image of me, and it is helpful to hear what that is. Even comments like "you strike me as the kind of guy who ..." -are incredibly useful and grounding for me.

[Greyson]

Hominid, I believe you. These sort of things can and do happen to many of us. For me, I internalized so much of this sort of thing. It hurt deeply and it made me much more angry, isolated emotionally, judgmental and fearful. Now where do go with all of this stuff trapped internally? The "others" that hurt me went on and lived their lives. (BTW, I am not talking about exes. I am talking about the isms.) I did a lot of chest thumping like Brutal because I was not sure of myself.

I am not saying this is part of your character, how you tick. I am saying some of us are and some us of may be. Again, without even realizing it.


It IS cool if it's how it seems, and if the person posting says that's how it seems to him with *some* butches - which is, I believe the case. It's perfectly legitimate to discuss whether that perception is correct.

In MY case, and MY case alone, the four butches I have known well enough to process with have TOLD me that PART of their issue was jealousy - and through further processing of the kind discussed a little earlier (reflecting on whether the desire to transition was some form of misogyny) they came to a different place than I did. I was told by these friends that my transitioning forced them to consider that they could be male if they wanted, and part of that process for them was feeling that it would be too difficult, too hard to deal with in their lives, and this made them angry and jealous - for a period of time. Of course, it was one small part of their own process, but it did exist, and important for us to discuss because it came between us. I do NOT feel that all butches go through this or feel this way - nor do I even have an opinion on how many might - I only know it CAN be so - and is usually transient.

That said, there are times when PARTS of me hearken for the simpler days of being a young, hot butch and be admired by the community.

[weatherboi]

Greyson, I am unsure to, this is why I stated that I was merely guessing. I think it is a combination of both rising populations within the trans community and people are talking about it more hence the experience I spoke about. I stopped long ago allowing myself to feed into the myth that T makes guys aggressive, I am pretty sure that the abusive nature was there long before the T. I think that all genders can be perpetrators of domestic violence but since I am FTM I am gonna stick to my gender. I am not sure what you mean by the blame game. I do not see anybody here blaming anybody for anything when it comes to domestic violence and let me be perfectly clear. I won't take this space and use it as a place to try and debunk myths or truths that people are too scared to tackle. If we wanna talk about DV then let's stick to our gender. Cultural differences I can deal with but speaking about other genders here pertaining to domestic violence not so much. I don't know if I am comfortable speaking of that couple. It is a sensitive topic for many and some people here were friends with her.

weatherboi, I am unsure if domestic violence and anger management issues are on the rise or if it is much more openly talked about in the Queer community. Back in the 80s I went into a Lesbian Recovery Residential Program in Los Angeles. There was an assumption that "Butches" were most likely the offenders in regards to violence and I have heard similar reasoning in regards to FTMs being excessively aggressive as a result of taking T.

I don't want to get into the blame game. I do want to bring these topics out of the closet and discussed openly. I have observed some cultural differences in what one might consider violence. I am not talking about physical violence. I am talking about things like yelling verses talking. Face gestures, body language.

Domestic Violence does exist in the LGBTQ Community. How can we change it? I don't think it is as easy as shunning a person or persons of a specific gender or gender expression. Abusers do not deserve to be placated with no consequences.I think there should be restitution by the abuser and rehabilitation for some, not all.

I suspect there are members here that have hit, and emotionally abused their partners. I do not believe that is necessarily something they want to examine and come out with it. BTW, a few years back there was a couple in Texas. It was a Transman that was charged with the murder of his femme partner. I believe they were members with many of us over on the old site. Did anyone ever follow up on this? Did our community learn anything from this tragedy?

[Greyson]

weatherboi, my apologies. I was not implying any of the posts were doing the blame game. I want to try and stay away from that slippery slope. I do know I still have bruised feelings about things that took place 20 - 30 years ago and if I allow it, I can get into the "blame game" myself. I don't think expressing my anger about such perceived injustices, snarks really adds much to the talking, analysis, unpacking that we do here as a community. Again, my apologies. I was not saying you or anyone is "blaming."


As for a sensitive topic, I understand. You do not need to comment. I did not give their online names or their "real time" names. My point is I really want others who are newer to all of this, to get it, cut to the chase. These things can and do happen. Many of our conversations here are not based in make believe.

Greyson, I am unsure to, this is why I stated that I was merely guessing. I think it is a combination of both rising populations within the trans community and people are talking about it more hence the experience I spoke about. I stopped long ago allowing myself to feed into the myth that T makes guys aggressive, I am pretty sure that the abusive nature was there long before the T. I think that all genders can be perpetrators of domestic violence but since I am FTM I am gonna stick to my gender. I am not sure what you mean by the blame game. I do not see anybody here blaming anybody for anything when it comes to domestic violence and let me be perfectly clear. I won't take this space and use it as a place to try and debunk myths or truths that people are too scared to tackle. If we wanna talk about DV then let's stick to our gender. Cultural differences I can deal with but speaking about other genders here pertaining to domestic violence not so much. I don't know if I am comfortable speaking of that couple. It is a sensitive topic for many and some people here were friends with her.

[Hominid]

Hominid, I believe you. These sort of things can and do happen to many of us. For me, I internalized so much of this sort of thing. It hurt deeply and it made me much more angry, isolated emotionally, judgmental and fearful. Now where do go with all of this stuff trapped internally? The "others" that hurt me went on and lived their lives. (BTW, I am not talking about exes. I am talking about the isms.) I did a lot of chest thumping like Brutal because I was not sure of myself.

I am not saying this is part of your character, how you tick. I am saying some of us are and some us of may be. Again, without even realizing it.

I'm sorry Greyson - I completely lost you ... chalk it up to the hurricane? I do not feel offended at all. I value open communication and what people INTEND more than anything at all. Do you mind sharing what sort of thing you internalized? And what "this" you are not saying is part of my character?
I feel like I'm missing something you are trying to communicate that is very important -

[Greyson]

Hi Hominid. Sorry I have really been burning up the keyboard today and maybe I am just feeling too much to be articulate. What I am trying to say is I believe you that there were butch pals that felt jealous. Not all butches are Trans but most butches, I think have been forced to ponder gender. Most butches are gender outlaws. We/they do not fit the "norm."

So, butches, FTMs, others all of us can say and do hurtful things to our own community. Then, how does that make you feel? Do you feel hurt? Does your hurt turn into anger? Can you let it roll off your back or does it stick in you somewhere? It stuck for me, for years. What I have learned is that my hurt, fear festered. It did not stop the lives of the people who judged me, treated me with disregard. They moved on. I was stuck then I felt even more isolated and angry. This did not serve me.The one I was hurting and frustrating the most was myself. Sometimes I overcompensated in ways that gave credence to negative stereotypes.

My question, have you ever had similar feelings and responses? I am not asking you this in an acusatory way. My hope is that all of us participating in this thread can move forward, find some affirmation for who we are, and find some understanding for those who may not always agree with us, collectively.

Clear as mud. I know.




I'm sorry Greyson - I completely lost you ... chalk it up to the hurricane? I do not feel offended at all. I value open communication and what people INTEND more than anything at all. Do you mind sharing what sort of thing you internalized? And what "this" you are not saying is part of my character?
I feel like I'm missing something you are trying to communicate that is very important -

[Hominid]

Greyson -

That was very clear, thank you. And please, don't walk on eggshells with me. Of course others are reading, but you owe ME no explanations or apologies.

Ah, I see now. I felt hurt and humiliated - like the entire town was judging me - for about six months. It was hard at work, my closest friend and I didn't communicate much. I attribute that as much to appearing gender-neutral, being extremely self-conscious and feeling that everyone was talking about me (which they most likely were). I was scared for my kids and nervous around my neighbors. I felt like a freak to straight people and a source of shame and judgment to lesbians.

I worked a lot, which was equally hard, patients would ask other staff after I left the room whether I was male or female. But I got more support there than elsewhere. Sometime, somehow - I saw "me" in the mirror, and my validation came from strangers taking me for who I was; not some complex statement on what gender and sexuality means - and I was really aware of straight people who knew, or who found out, immediately thinking about my genitals.

Now, with time - and this is all in retrospect obviously, I think it has helped a lot that the scales have tipped. More people don't know than do. With those I know know, it is rarely a topic. I keep pictures up of me pre-transition - not lots, but I'm not taking down a meaningful picture. Besides, I was cute. I have pictures of my graduation with my late father, my mom's favorite picture of me as a little girl, and pictures of me with my daughter when she was born.

I guess that's way off topic. But .. in answer to your question, I didn't carry much anger. I had frustration with my closest friend. I felt a lot of shame which was corrected when the transition was "complete" for me. However, I didn't have a large community either. I was married with two small kids - the bulk of my social life was soccer games. I left it to my then-wife to tell people, which now I realize was a mistake that retarded my own ability to deal with having done it. Anyway, being buried in a family at the time meant I didn't have to move about in the world alone, I had the roles of father and husband to insulate me, so I was very fortunate.

Thank you for clarifying - I felt like I missed a post or something!

[Linus]

I know I've asked lots of questions to be answered already but here's more.. It will keep the thread busy :)



FTM visibility, invisibility - thoughts , share stories, experiences?

<snip>

All the time. I see gay couples and want to reach out and go "HEY! Family!" It's one of the curse/blessings of T in that I can hide or blend for safety but that same ability means that trying to find community locally can be hard since it's not as obvious.

I have been on T for 3.5 years and there are times I still get referred to as ma'am or lady by strangers. Like ank in my head "What part of me looks like a lady? Really?" Then my head goes to Why does your gut clench when someone genders you as a woman? Subtle stuff but there.

I know it is not the same for other Trans guys. This is how it is for me. I claim a third gender sort of thing. I cannot let go of my past. I am a pragmatic sort and I think it is political for me. I do not want to be invisible in terms of my queerness. I do not want straight people or queers to assume I am a cisman. So, why did I transition? It felt right for me and I experienced something in my life that was the final blow. I wanted FULL and Equal rights in the eyes of the law. Enough for now.

From the point I started my beard to now, I haven't had the wrong pronouns. Society is very visual but part of the challenge (at least from what I've noticed) is how baby faced we can look. I find T resulted in me getting ID'd more often (especially when my head is shaved and no one can gauge my age based on the salt'n'pepper).

And agreed. I didn't transition to fit in. That's why I DIDN'T pursue this years ago. I transitioned for me so that my own skin would feel like home to me and not some stranger staring back in the mirror.

<snip>

Do we all use male restrooms here?
<snip>

Yes. And I sit. And never am I challenged on it. It does present challenges for when I'm out at sporting events where stalls are rarer but it highlights the last bit of my transition that I want to complete. (not fully phallo but hysto and metio likely)

Yes, I am told often by my girlfriend that she thinks I am a hottie. The thing is, I don't believe it about myself. I struggle with fluxuations in my body weight. Always have since the day I was born. I was the heavier twin. Oops that is another thread.

And this brings to mind another thing I noticed when I was a child in elementary school. Why is it that men can be rather obese and still found desirable, sexual? Take a look around guys. What is in the movies, in real life? Big guys are referred to as "Big Guys, Portly, Strong." Large women get terms like "Fat B__tch, I wouldn't poke that......." You guys know the drill. How many times may we have discounted a woman because of her size? (You can throw in age with that too.)

This is something of a challenge. Although K often says how hot I am (she likes teddy bear cuddly types), I often see myself like George Costanza (Seinfeld). I don't workout enough to be anything other than portly. All my life I've battled weight issues (too heavy) and as much as K likes this, she knows that I cannot maintain this (for health reasons). Now if I maintained the exercise regime I did when I was teaching at the college, I could look more along the lines of what the world expects of young men.

That said, there is a double standard, for sure. I'll age gracefully. I'll get the "high fives" for dating a women 16 years my junior. Nevermind that she has beauty, brains and brawn in one. Society is more interested in objectifying woman as only beauty objects rather than looking at the whole person they are. And the view that they need to be one way drives me insane.

For example, I'm watching Criminal Minds this morning and I've always found Garcia hot. It's all attitude and brains for me. Always.

When I met Snow I was on my was on my way to being anorexic from dysphoria. The more weight I lost the more I passed and no amount of weights I lifted or running I did was keeping up with the amount of weight I was losing and the gaunt appearance I was taking on. I wasn't seeing that. I was hyper focused with doing drive by quick glances in the mirror so I could get that validation from my physical appearance finally meeting up with what my brain sees I am. I was limiting my nutrition and doubling up on working out. I was breaking out all over and my asthma was at an all time high. One of the many dyphoric vortexes that I have been able to recognize over the years. Someone had asked earlier in the thread how the femmes/women in our lives have helped support us. Snow helped me out of that vortex. My body weight is now something I try not to make a big deal out of or I will get all caught up and starve myself. Other people battle dysphoria?

I get told I am hot in many different ways and I am glad I don't get compared to bio guys. Part of my dysphoria revolves around my disconnect with how I look in my head and how I look to the world.

Yes I use the mens bathroom and have been for some years. I always use a stall now. I have tried STP's and they all seem to malfunction eventually.

I still battle some dysphoria but it's not as bad as it once was. I still want to get into shape (other than round, although that is a shape). Your experience makes me wonder sometimes if there is still some unexplored issue that I need to address in regards to my eating habits (then again, it could be that I'm just a geek who likes soda and video games too much).

And it's heartening to know that I'm not the only one who finds the STP a challenge in some way or another.

[Julien]

I would like to thank everyone for their insights to themselves, our society and our community. I'm learning a lot about you and what to expect and feel better about what I am experiencing as I go through my transition. As a way to better understand this journey, I am writing a manuscript about my own path to transitioning and it helps to have a place to come to that is safe and supportive to talk about a variety of issues pertaining to this. I have been getting very kind and supportive feedback from my earlier posts and I appreciate it very much. One person commented that it must be lonely for me to be in my particular situation. I must say that it is to a degree and I tend to isolate myself when I think that my outing myself as trans would cause some problem. However, I want to be true to myself and live the life I was meant to live. I am now 50 and do not want to be on the fringe. Someone in an earlier post asked whether we dated lesbians or straight women. I am attracted to the person who accepts me as I am. I personally would love to have a partner who is accepting of me as I am, even at this inbetween stage and will stay with me as I transition. It is something I want in my life. I had a Lady friend who told me I was gorgeous and masculine just the way I am right now and that really gave me a boost to my self esteem. I just wish she was my girlfriend. Thanks for this thread.

[Hominid]

I hope this doesn't seem like a platitude, but something I always said to myself that helped, a little, was "I don't need to know HOW I will make it, only THAT I will make it" - put one foot in front of the other. And remember how great it is that you have this option, that you will have the choice about how to be perceived and identify, and you WILL get to be an old man. The baby face does go away. The beard moves up from the neck (and remember, for the most part, only those in the community know what that neck beard thing is - it IS a clear sign to most of the world that you are male, even if it's a little funny looking - if it really bothers you, consider isolating some part of your hair - for me, it was long sideburns until more grew in). Treat yourself to razors and the process - stroll confidently into bathroom stalls and plop your ass down like every other guy who needs to sit for whatever reason. It is hard to feel in between, it was the hardest time for me, much harder than being female. But you're on the dredge up the hill with the sled - soon you'll be flying down the mountain on your own path.

I would like to thank everyone for their insights to themselves, our society and our community. I'm learning a lot about you and what to expect and feel better about what I am experiencing as I go through my transition. As a way to better understand this journey, I am writing a manuscript about my own path to transitioning and it helps to have a place to come to that is safe and supportive to talk about a variety of issues pertaining to this. I have been getting very kind and supportive feedback from my earlier posts and I appreciate it very much. One person commented that it must be lonely for me to be in my particular situation. I must say that it is to a degree and I tend to isolate myself when I think that my outing myself as trans would cause some problem. However, I want to be true to myself and live the life I was meant to live. I am now 50 and do not want to be on the fringe. Someone in an earlier post asked whether we dated lesbians or straight women. I am attracted to the person who accepts me as I am. I personally would love to have a partner who is accepting of me as I am, even at this inbetween stage and will stay with me as I transition. It is something I want in my life. I had a Lady friend who told me I was gorgeous and masculine just the way I am right now and that really gave me a boost to my self esteem. I just wish she was my girlfriend. Thanks for this thread.

[Hominid]

Oh -Julien -

Another thing that REALLY, really helps - once you realize that straight people don't perceive you as trans, you may find it help a lot to spend an afternoon at a bookstore, or browsing Home Depot - anywhere with people, all by yourself. Every guy who ignores you or nods, every woman who ignores you or smiles at you, the little flirtations from the woman selling coffee (or guy) - it is extremely empowering when the rest of your life is more complex and filled with people transitioning along with you (in their perception of you).

Do it as soon as you can. It's a treat.

[BrutalDaddy]

Julien, I can totally get where you're coming from. In the "inbetween" stage myself in a lot of ways. Most of my family gets that I was born in wrong body but only few of them acknowledge it. Same with friends.

Depending on how my hair is cut, I'll either get Sir'ed or Ma'am'ed on a day to day basis. Not sure what the hell makes it one way or the other but I know it has to be more then just the looks. Maybe it's Ma'am when I'm having one of my "pitiful" me days. Lol. Who knows. And for the record I am NOT saying that when I'm all meek and mild that's when folks "see me as a female" so therefore that must be what I'm saying. No. What I am saying is when I carry myself with confidence and look folks in the eye and a square jaw, they tend to stick with their first instinct which is usually Sir. Only if I look away do they then go into the whole, "Oh shit Ma'am, I'm sorry. How can I help you Ma'am?"

Julien, I realize this is a bit off topic but I'm a lil slow sometimes (just ask the wife) and it just now dawned on me that you live very VERY close to 'sational and I. We'd love to get together for coffee sometime if you'd like? I won't be home for at least two more weeks but if you wanted to spend time with "family" before then, 'sational has time on her hands. I'm sure she'd love to meet up for some coffee. She'll take any excuse to drink coffee. Lol. Plus we both don't have a whole lotta rainbow family round here so it'd be pretty bad ass to not only have one but one from here!

No pressure at all. Lol. Just realized that must come across like some sales pitch or something. If so, sorry about that. Just pm one of us if ya want to and if not, totally get it. :)

As far as the inbetween stage goes, it's here for a while until I get some of my own personal shit squared away. Only way can consciously make decision to be on T and be doing it for the right reasons, i.e. for myself and not so society sees me for who I really am. It does suck sometimes because you're like caught in this midair jump that you can't go back on or finish so you're just left hanging there for now. Eh, that's life. Won't lie though, I do look forward to growing facial hair. Just once. Used to watch Hank (sperm donor whom the state calls my father) shave in the morning and I can remember just being so damn envious. I'm not talking in my teen years either but at the age of three and four. Would slather my face with shaving cream and use this really old shaving kit mom had found at a garage sale and gotten for me. Had no blade in it. God, I think she subconsciously knew even before I did.

Okay, rambled enough for this post. Thanks guys. Julien, let us know either way if you want? Again, no pressure at all. I'm serious. :)


Brute.


P.S. My wife gets confused when I call her 'sational so I'll just stick with her name, julie.

[Hominid]

Avatar Change 'cause I keep thinking "holy crap, did I post that?" and it's Brutal :confused:

[DMW]

I didn't really do anything to deserve all the thanks for the thread. There are other trans threads...and anyone of us could have done it.Plus, i had help from others here in starting it. Linus did more than i did really.

I haven't had time to read all of this...but, man do i have similar and different experiences going on inside my head while reading about all of you guys's. And the really thoughtful threads... i want to delve more into myself again and analyze and reflect more and go there...(need more self time hugh?) but, i have to save some energy. Don't have a whole lot of extra time. Some really thoughtful posts.

The one "ISSUE" that really disturbs me about the laws in our society... when it comes to being FTM or MTF...is how dangerous it can be for some of us who don't have the correct gender marker on our ID's.
i.e. One that reflects the sex in which people perceive us as... is really the safest.Personally, My gender marker on my ID is Male. I am lucky. But, for those of us who don't have that security...God that makes my skin boil! Seriously, society needs to understand how dangerous this is for trans people...and others and the laws should be changed in order to give each person the ability to CHOOSE what suits them. Burning precious energy...

[BrutalDaddy]

Avatar Change 'cause I keep thinking "holy crap, did I post that?" and it's Brutal :confused:

LOL. Sorry about that!

I chose this one cause I love monkeys and I wear glasses. :blink:



Four Eyed Monkey Lover,
Brute.


P.S. I love monkeys so much I even have a tatt of one. /End Derail.

[DMW]

I think that is funnier than hell Brute....I have been called that before....
Monkey

Keepin' it light is nice

I hope you are safe on the road out there...where are you Brute?

You guys are makin' me laugh reading your stories. The TSA...uh huh..
Another thing that cracks me up...I call trans - friendly toilets ...(TFT's)....
This is a good tool to have and use in public with others...depending on the situation.

I love goin' into the mens room to piss and there are just urinals or no doors....
Lovin' that especially when i am about to whizz my pants and my bladder is bursting...and screamin' at me and me EYE balls are just about to pop out of me HEAD....OY(sarcasm).
That right there is a great feeling and very healthy for our bladders....can anyone say
dehydration? So, important to drink enough water. I do.
I am comfortable in the men's room majority of the time. Just not lovin it when there isn't a door.
A lot more comfortable in the men's than i ever was in the women's restroom. I never really was
comfortable there...i was shy and felt like an intruder. but, i was a gentleman
(when i used to have to go in there) ...you know? Even as a child growing up it felt so wrong.
So confusing.
just don't look at anything. But, embarrassing to go in there. Scary even!
Gonna go try and watch the TV...I hope Obama wins...

[Hominid]

I know you had it first - I thought it went well with "Hominid" - but I'm way more into aliens than chimps - you win! Except they didn't have an alien with glasses ...

LOL. Sorry about that!

I chose this one cause I love monkeys and I wear glasses. :blink:



Four Eyed Monkey Lover,
Brute.


P.S. I love monkeys so much I even have a tatt of one. /End Derail.

[DMW]

I know you had it first - I thought it went well with "Hominid" - but I'm way more into aliens than chimps - you win! Except they didn't have an alien with glasses ...

I have a Jack avatar for you Hominid.
They are out there in cyber space.
You should check them out.

DMW

[Hominid]

Now what?

We met on OKC, apparently she had been "looking" at me for several months - but has been moving, changing jobs, etc. and wasn't actively reaching out to anyone. She was one of my "mandatory" few that I send a message to a week. We met for breakfast - have talked on the phone a few times, and now we're going to the movies and dinner Saturday (not very original, but neither of us has been in a while and it's kind of retro).

Anyway, she is straight. Well, not really - well - she defines as straight but was with a few women over 8 years ago. She's never been with anyone trans, doesn't know anyone trans. She told me tonight she gets a little wobbly in the knees when we talk and has said nothing about my being trans or made no references to it ... which I admit is kind of nice.

That said, if we get that far (which won't be this week), how does one deal with sex? My ex and I had sex pretty much the same way after transition as before - and I was with a woman last year sexually who had been with butch lesbians so the "hardware" thing was just a given (hearkening to my comment about it being a little easier to date queer women). So, I mean, you're making out ... one thing leads to another ... then you excuse yourself? Do I talk about this very thing so when the time comes she's like "go upstairs honey, I'll be up in a minute" so I can be in bed already?

I plan to take my time, not rush into sex, but I'm curious about others' experiences with this delicate, embarrassing (to me) issue.

[Darbonaire]

Now what?

We met on OKC, apparently she had been "looking" at me for several months - but has been moving, changing jobs, etc. and wasn't actively reaching out to anyone. She was one of my "mandatory" few that I send a message to a week. We met for breakfast - have talked on the phone a few times, and now we're going to the movies and dinner Saturday (not very original, but neither of us has been in a while and it's kind of retro).

Anyway, she is straight. Well, not really - well - she defines as straight but was with a few women over 8 years ago. She's never been with anyone trans, doesn't know anyone trans. She told me tonight she gets a little wobbly in the knees when we talk and has said nothing about my being trans or made no references to it ... which I admit is kind of nice.

That said, if we get that far (which won't be this week), how does one deal with sex? My ex and I had sex pretty much the same way after transition as before - and I was with a woman last year sexually who had been with butch lesbians so the "hardware" thing was just a given (hearkening to my comment about it being a little easier to date queer women). So, I mean, you're making out ... one thing leads to another ... then you excuse yourself? Do I talk about this very thing so when the time comes she's like "go upstairs honey, I'll be up in a minute" so I can be in bed already?

I plan to take my time, not rush into sex, but I'm curious about others' experiences with this delicate, embarrassing (to me) issue.

I'm not worried about the "outing" myself...it's sex with a straight wamon that makes me question the "how to do it" the easiest & most comfortable way...NOT talking about positions here guys.....LOL.....just fyi.....

I'll be interested in the answers....thanks Hominid ! & Good luck when it happens & enjoy your date !!!

[Darbonaire]

I'm not worried about the "outing" myself...it's sex with a straight wamon that makes me question the "how to do it" the easiest & most comfortable way...NOT talking about positions here guys.....LOL.....just fyi.....

I'll be interested in the answers....thanks Hominid ! & Good luck when it happens & enjoy your date !!!

BTw...what's OKC ? a dating site ?

[Linus]

BTw...what's OKC ? a dating site ?

OK Cupid (dating site).

[Linus]

And I think in regards to the "how to" I think this will be largely dependent on the individual you are with. And what you both agree to what excites you or turns you on. And what things either you do not feel comfortable with. I don't know if any of us can suggest that it be one way or another. I've used toys (I like to say that I can come in any color, shape or size -- pun intended), my hands, my mouth and sometimes other things (amazing what a simple feather and a blindfold can cause).

[PurpleQuestions84]

Just fill her in about your situation and ask her what she likes


I'm not worried about the "outing" myself...it's sex with a straight wamon that makes me question the "how to do it" the easiest & most comfortable way...NOT talking about positions here guys.....LOL.....just fyi.....

I'll be interested in the answers....thanks Hominid ! & Good luck when it happens & enjoy your date !!!

[Julien]

Just stopped by to say good afternoon to everyone. I hope your day is a good one.

[PurpleQuestions84]

Ditto. :koolaid:

Just stopped by to say good afternoon to everyone. I hope your day is a good one.

[Linus]

I'm not sure how best to put this but I would prefer that this thread be FTM only. It's not that we do not value or appreciate input from other gender IDs but sometimes we have to figure out things for ourselves by ourselves for ourselves. Threads like Ask a Trans or What attracts you to FTMs may be more appropriate for comments, questions, etc.


As DMW stated at the start:

This is a space for FTM's to talk about anything they would like to. Especially, FTM's that live as males, in their everyday lives, and are not seen by society as anything other than a biomale.Please go along with the websites guidelines of decorum and respect for others. The TOS or what have you.

[DMW]

Just fill her in about your situation and ask her what she likes

Welcome to butchfemme planet Purple, i completely agree with your answer to the question that you replied to....Smile.

I see that you are new here. Just to fill you in regarding what i have asked for
from the community.

I have made this thread a thread for FTM's to share a space. It isn't exactly private for us but, it is the best we got.

You did remind me that another thread needs to be made though.


Have a good day and please don't take my request personally...I am sure there will be more people ...to drop by unaware... I myself, have messed up plenty,so no need to feel badly or to apologize.

There are a lot of good people here and there is room for everyone of all colors,shapes and sizes....
have fun, and welcome again.


DMW

[alexri]

Gentlemen, thank you for this thread, and for your openness and honesty. There are things I want to post and say but I can't do it right now. I can't get the words right in my thoughts right now. But I am a very appreciative reader.

[DMW]

Just a note...i believe there is more risk involved for those who love trans people...more risk for loss. (friends or lovers or mates) even family sometimes.

We change, in different ways..some subtle, some big...Physical for sure. and our lives become different....so to...do the lives of the one's that love us.

Sometimes our change makes the lives of the one's we love(our Parners especially)... really invisible...there is so much fear for them. It is a lot to ask of someone to take on the journey of life with a transman.

and for some... misunderstanding...
it is up to me to give them time, space, acceptance (because they are NOT trans) and the willingness... to be available to explain myself and answer questions when needed.
If i am expecting them to reciprocate ...in kind... i must give of myself in order to receive
understanding.
It is called respecting the one's I love. And respecting myself.

The people that love me are forced to accept and change...in their own way... and love me...because...i am trans. I make a move and take action...there is a reaction...of course...
And i must say, I am a very lucky man.

In addition, i am not alone and my story is not unusual....so, keep your heads up transmen...the people who really love you and accept your change... will do the same for you... as you do for them. I am not the only lucky one.

And sometimes...people love me...but it is too much...to stay on the journey... and that is ok...
i can love them back...in kind...

See, there is the risk of loss. It takes a brave woman to take on that risk. I know that.
I have seen it and lived it and watched her love and loved her back...with me on the journey or not...she loved me back....and ditto i for her.

[BrutalDaddy]

Just a note...i believe there is more risk involved for those who love trans people...more risk for loss. (friends or lovers or mates) even family sometimes.

We change, in different ways..some subtle, some big...Physical for sure. and our lives become different....so to...do the lives of the one's that love us.

Sometimes our change makes the lives of the one's we love(our Parners especially)... really invisible...there is so much fear for them. It is a lot to ask of someone to take on the journey of life with a transman.

and for some... misunderstanding...
it is up to me to give them time, space, acceptance (because they are NOT trans) and the willingness... to be available to explain myself and answer questions when needed.
If i am expecting them to reciprocate ...in kind... i must give of myself in order to receive
understanding.
It is called respecting the one's I love. And respecting myself.

The people that love me are forced to accept and change...in their own way... and love me...because...i am trans. I make a move and take action...there is a reaction...of course...
And i must say, I am a very lucky man.

In addition, i am not alone and my story is not unusual....so, keep your heads up transmen...the people who really love you and accept your change... will do the same for you... as you do for them. I am not the only lucky one.

And sometimes...people love me...but it is too much...to stay on the journey... and that is ok...
i can love them back...in kind...

See, there is the risk of loss. It takes a brave woman to take on that risk. I know that.
I have seen it and lived it and watched her love and loved her back...with me on the journey or not...she loved me back....and ditto i for her.



DMV,

There was a lot to this that I can relate to. Realizing that there are some of my own family members that are going to have a really really hard time with it especially when the time comes that I start T. They say they support me but I also know the physical changes will be a shock for them. There are some too who have literally just disappeared into thin air when they found out. Lol. No worries though, they're cousins who I'd rather not hang out with anyway. Yet I know they ALL love me, it's just a matter of how much they can deal with because whether they like it or not, the change will happen. So regardless if they hang around or not, I'm okay with it because like I said, I know they do love me.

As far as being with someone and having her go through this with me. Yea, I can see how it can be really hard for her but I am lucky in that she supports me and understands that everyone should just be who they feel they are. She's one of those who wants to beat her head on a wall when she meets someone who feels they can't be who they truly are for whatever reason. Lol. Kinda cute actually. If she had her way, every one would be free to live as they see themselves. As far as her feeling invisible. I think it's more she feels femme invisibility then anything else. Does being with me, a FTM, compound that? I dunno. Maybe. But she looks at it as her invisibility, not mine. Hope that makes sense, at least it does in my head. Lol. I could see how it could be harder if I were a FTM that wanted to denounce any part of my female past once I fully transitioned and live as a heterosexual male. Luckily for myself and her, I don't want to live that way.

Yea, I reckon we are pretty damn lucky, DMW, for having women in our lives who understand the risks but also know there are joys as well to being with one of our kind. At least that's what I hope anyways. She's still with me so must be some joy in there somewhere. Lol. I do know that I try my best to make sure that she is comfortable with what's happening (although I can be self absorbed most the time) because as I transition, it's not just me but us. Our lives change with each step I take. My transitioning will affect her family because they don't fully understand or know yet. It was our choice. Right now it's the best choice. It's a choice I am okay with because I want life for her to be as uncomplicated as possible and believe me, while her parents are truly great people....calling them up to tell them that I'm really a man trapped in a female body would earn us a few candles at mass I'm sure! Again, love them to death and they love me to death. Just not something I would want to put on them or on her.

She knows the risks and for that I'm grateful. So we'll take it one day at a time and see what each day brings. :)


Yep I Am Lucky,
Brute.

[Darbonaire]

I can totally relate DMV....it takes a very special person to love & stay alongside us sometimes. I had a woman who did that, & omg did/do I love her for that. That's what's hardest about the divorce is my best friend, the woman I felt safest with, the woman who loved me even though I changed...she's not with me anymore but, the love we shared is still there & I will be forever grateful to her for her love & emotional support the last 10 years. She's a gem...I hope I will be blessed enough to find another like her in those ways....I wish us ALL the best in that !

Jonathan

[Hominid]

And I think in regards to the "how to" I think this will be largely dependent on the individual you are with. And what you both agree to what excites you or turns you on. And what things either you do not feel comfortable with. I don't know if any of us can suggest that it be one way or another. I've used toys (I like to say that I can come in any color, shape or size -- pun intended), my hands, my mouth and sometimes other things (amazing what a simple feather and a blindfold can cause).

Well ... yeah - I'm not really asking HOW to have sex ... just how to deal with the topic of "okay, I have to strap on to do that part" - although I'm quite sure she'll be happier with the things I'll do and the parts I'll pay attention to compared to most cis-guys, there's "that" part that I'm worried about.

[Greyson]

I am really tired of people telling my gf she is not really a Femme Lesbian because she is partnered with me. As if they are ordained the head honcho of "Identity." What ever a woman decides is her identity, it is not for me to say. Her identity is not dependent on how I see myself.

Yes, I have seen the things that happen to women that partner with someone like me. However for me, this is not all new. Some of the same stuff happened to my partners before I transitioned. My gender expression was never congruent with what was considered to be "normal."

For me, I have enough to figure out about the how and the why of it as to who I am


P.S. Although this thread would not be appropriate to do it in, I would like to hear from women who have dated Butches and FTMs. How varied was your experience? Were there similarities? Was it a completely different experience for you? Did your gender identity change? Did you experience invisiblity as a queer woman, femme, even more so then when you dated a self identified butch? Do you women have any concerns you would like for gender varient masculine people including FTMs, take into consideration when dating, partnering, and befriending you?

[Greyson]

Oh and one more thought to my above post.

A thread where we cannot challenge them on their experience or "cruise" them under the guise of platitudes and compliments. Maybe we just listen and think about what they are telling us.

[DMW]

Well ... yeah - I'm not really asking HOW to have sex ... just how to deal with the topic of "okay, I have to strap on to do that part" - although I'm quite sure she'll be happier with the things I'll do and the parts I'll pay attention to compared to most cis-guys, there's "that" part that I'm worried about.

To be blunt cause it is late...peruse as needed. Info for us.
http://lolajake.com/secure/

http://www.ftmguide.org/packinghard.html

Exactly, she already knows, also. So, just treat it like any other date.
But, the sooner she knows the better for the both of you.
That way she can deal with the idea in her head.
She will either like the idea or not. Deal or not deal. And then there is always feeling out the chemistry and deciding whether or not you want to even go
there with her yourself. You know. You Got this Man...but, tread lightly for
yourself. Once you go there...she may not stay away....wink


I am really tired of people telling my gf she is not really a Femme Lesbian because she is partnered with me. As if they are ordained the head honcho of "Identity." What ever a woman decides is her identity, it is not for me to say. Her identity is not dependent on how I see myself.

Yes, I have seen the things that happen to women that partner with someone like me. However for me, this is not all new. Some of the same stuff happened to my partners before I transitioned. My gender expression was never congruent with what was considered to be "normal."

For me, I have enough to figure out about the how and the why of it as to who I am


P.S. Although this thread would not be appropriate to do it in, I would like to hear from women who have dated Butches and FTMs. How varied was your experience? Were there similarities? Was it a completely different experience for you? Did your gender identity change? Did you experience invisiblity as a queer woman, femme, even more so then when you dated a self identified butch? Do you women have any concerns you would like for gender varient masculine people including FTMs, take into consideration when dating, partnering, and befriending you?

Greyson, that is so disturbing when people cannot either just get it...or accept that we are all different and or the same in various ways..
whatever anyone decides is their identity is theirs...agreed.
society will accept it or understand it or not.
accepting your girlfriends identity is all that matters for you
and i am sure that is done...try to understand her...that is all that is essential for the two of you.
Remember it isn't always a fine line... or couples don't come in perfect pairs of established (labels)...and the thing is...her identitiy is hers and yours is yours. period. Just keep being true to yourself.
you know? sorry it's late. Plus there isn't always a box or label to stuff oneself into...
we are all evolving if we are working.
I have to come back to this for sure.


I suggest you ...or we...start a new thread...seriously...one about FTM's and Femmes or whatever will answer some of your questions and help you and your girl...

I gotta check out.

Nite All

[Greyson]

To be blunt cause it is late...peruse as needed. Info for us.
http://lolajake.com/secure/

http://www.ftmguide.org/packinghard.html

Exactly, she already knows, also. So, just treat it like any other date.
But, the sooner she knows the better for the both of you.
That way she can deal with the idea in her head.
She will either like the idea or not. Deal or not deal. And then there is always feeling out the chemistry and deciding whether or not you want to even go
there with her yourself. You know. You Got this Man...but, tread lightly for
yourself. Once you go there...she may not stay away....wink




Greyson, that is so disturbing when people cannot either just get it...or accept that we are all different and or the same in various ways..
whatever anyone decides is their identity is theirs...agreed.
society will accept it or understand it or not.
accepting your girlfriends identity is all that matters for you
and i am sure that is done...try to understand her...that is all that is essential for the two of you.
Remember it isn't always a fine line... or couples don't come in perfect pairs of established (labels)...and the thing is...her identitiy is hers and yours is yours. period. Just keep being true to yourself.
you know? sorry it's late. Plus there isn't always a box or label to stuff oneself into...
we are all evolving if we are working.
I have to come back to this for sure.


I suggest you ...or we...start a new thread...seriously...one about FTM's and Femmes or whatever will answer some of your questions and help you and your girl...

I gotta check out.
Nite All

Thanks DMW. Me and my gf our good and confident in our identity. I really am asking questions of femmes because I am curious as to their experience. Especially for women who have dated butches and FTMs and/or gone through a "transition" of gender with someone.

Also, I do think at times many of us (generalized us that includes FIBs, Butches, Trans Butches, and FTMs) including myself, give women partnered with us or not, lip service. Some of us do not really think about what they are saying and how things impact their lives.

Unless I/we are attracted to them in some romantic, sexual, or flirtatious way.

[DMW]

P.S. Although this thread would not be appropriate to do it in, I would like to hear from women who have dated Butches and FTMs. How varied was your experience? Were there similarities? Was it a completely different experience for you? Did your gender identity change? Did you experience invisiblity as a queer woman, femme, even more so then when you dated a self identified butch? Do you women have any concerns you would like for gender varient masculine people including FTMs, take into consideration when dating, partnering, and befriending you?


Yep....Got it....a thread for that would be great for that. i was thinking along the same lines...amongst all of this...not all of those ?'s though. Those are good. I bet the women would like to know the answers and explore the answers to this also. And have some answers. The feedback would be awesome. And i would probably listen more than anything. I don't usually go into femme space ver much.....start a thread....or ask
a woman if she is interested in starting one...that would best.
Ok, Goodnight.

[DMW]

Also, I do think at times many of us (generalized us that includes FIBs, Butches, Trans Butches and FTMs) including myself, give women partnered with us or not, lip service. Some of us do not really think about what they are saying and how things impact their lives.


Agreed, I am guilty of that ...on this site... anyway.And in my life, in some setting, i am sure... i have offended people with my words. . It is so different online though. Context is everything as was pointed out. Thinking on this myself also. Just trying to be careful with what i say. Cause it is difficult to understand what specific wording would trigger whom....there are many really. Everyone of us has buttons or soft spots that trigger possibly trigger Us. and honestly...i have learned a lot from here already.
At the expense of other peoples feelings too. and i don't like that. That is
on me to understand and hear it and recognize what those words are ...etc.
Impossible for me to know all of the words that would trigger all of the people.
That is rediculous. But, many are good to be aware of.
For me ....it is to not react unkindly..if and when i get triggered.
Because it is not really that person's issue if I have a response. That would be my issue.

[ahk]

I am in the midst of scheduling my top surgery and I sound like a bleeping idiot on the phone-- its like, I am super excited but super nervous that I am finally here at this point of my life.

If you have already had Top Surgery, what kind of things would you recommend (healing, preparing)? What kind of questions did you all ask? Who did you go to, and why?

If you haven't had surgery yet - do you plan on sometime in future? Who do you want to go to, and why?

Not sure where everyone is located, but if you are in the East coast area, I hope you all are safe, keeping warm -- and know we are thinking of all of you.

Best,

[Linus]

I am in the midst of scheduling my top surgery and I sound like a bleeping idiot on the phone-- its like, I am super excited but super nervous that I am finally here at this point of my life.

If you have already had Top Surgery, what kind of things would you recommend (healing, preparing)? What kind of questions did you all ask? Who did you go to, and why?

If you haven't had surgery yet - do you plan on sometime in future? Who do you want to go to, and why?

Not sure where everyone is located, but if you are in the East coast area, I hope you all are safe, keeping warm -- and know we are thinking of all of you.

Best,

You're recovery may depend on the kind of surgery you are getting. Is it keyhole or double mastectomy?

To ask:

Get the doc to explain exactly how they are going to do the surgery.

Ask them what they recommend for recovery.

When do they want to see you after surgery? (24 hours? 48 hours?)

What are you allowed to eat before surgery? What are ok to eat 24-48 hours after surgery? a week after? and so on...

How often to change the dressing?

If double, things to consider for recovery:

Ensure you have help for the first week or two. And a good LazyBoy or similar recliner chair.

Have nothing to do for the first couple of days (I slept lots for the first couple of days). For the first couple of weeks, ensure that anything you need (say, food, water, etc.) is reachable at waist level (no lifting of items from ground and no raising of arms).

If you have dogs, ensure someone else can walk them. If they are the excitable type, you may need that person to **REALLY** wear them out so they don't jump on you.

Ensure the doc provides you with enough bandages and surgical tape. And change them according to what she/he recommends.

If you smoke, DON'T. I enjoy cigars now and again but avoided them for about two months or thereabouts to ensure healing was done without coughing.

[ahk]

You're recovery may depend on the kind of surgery you are getting. Is it keyhole or double mastectomy?

To ask:

Get the doc to explain exactly how they are going to do the surgery.

Ask them what they recommend for recovery.

When do they want to see you after surgery? (24 hours? 48 hours?)

What are you allowed to eat before surgery? What are ok to eat 24-48 hours after surgery? a week after? and so on...

How often to change the dressing?

If double, things to consider for recovery:

Ensure you have help for the first week or two. And a good LazyBoy or similar recliner chair.

Have nothing to do for the first couple of days (I slept lots for the first couple of days). For the first couple of weeks, ensure that anything you need (say, food, water, etc.) is reachable at waist level (no lifting of items from ground and no raising of arms).

If you have dogs, ensure someone else can walk them. If they are the excitable type, you may need that person to **REALLY** wear them out so they don't jump on you.

Ensure the doc provides you with enough bandages and surgical tape. And change them according to what she/he recommends.

If you smoke, DON'T. I enjoy cigars now and again but avoided them for about two months or thereabouts to ensure healing was done without coughing.

Linus-

Thanks for answering so quickly-- I believe I will getting the double mastectomy (a lot larger than a key hole, for sure). I don't smoke, so I'm good there too--

I never thought about the eating thing-- thank you for suggesting.

[Sun]

Hi Guys

I could really benefit from a place to connect with other transguys too. Good idea for a thread. I love my community but sometimes feel isolated especially at times of great changes in my life.

Greyson brother, it is really hard to deal with ignorance and no one has the right to tell you or your gf what is or what is not real. Only love is real. I am very much a believer in A Course in Miracles philosophy that only love is real and this distance that humans create with each other is some illusion of the ego.

The most beautiful thing that I have ever experienced on this planet in this lifetime is loving someone. No one can take any part of that away from me. That is my Church, there is my worship experience. With her I found my heaven.

One of the teachers that I look to is Don Miguel Ruiz and The Four Agreements. Agreement #2: Take Nothing Personally...is the hardest for me but I am working on this. It is not about you, it is about them. How sad for them.

I will be back to write more when I have more time but just wanted to stop by and say hello.

Sun

[DMW]

Beautiful Post Sun,

I love the 4 agreements....got it on me always...now, i gotta keep to em better...Long day at work for this guy.
Glad you are here.
DMW


Hi Guys

I could really benefit from a place to connect with other transguys too. Good idea for a thread. I love my community but sometimes feel isolated especially at times of great changes in my life.

Greyson brother, it is really hard to deal with ignorance and no one has the right to tell you or your gf what is or what is not real. Only love is real. I am very much a believer in A Course in Miracles philosophy that only love is real and this distance that humans create with each other is some illusion of the ego.

The most beautiful thing that I have ever experienced on this planet in this lifetime is loving someone. No one can take any part of that away from me. That is my Church, there is my worship experience. With her I found my heaven.

One of the teachers that I look to is Don Miguel Ruiz and The Four Agreements. Agreement #2: Take Nothing Personally...is the hardest for me but I am working on this. It is not about you, it is about them. How sad for them.

I will be back to write more when I have more time but just wanted to stop by and say hello.

Sun

[Hominid]

- Button up shirts - very hard (and bad for later scarring) to reach over your head

- you will get a list before surgery of things the doc wants you to do or not. I would ASK for a prescription for Zofran - just in case you get nauseous either from being post op, the trauma of it all, or the pain killers.

-Start taking metamucil or one of the other fiber drinks ASAP when you return. You will get constipated from the pain medicine, and that's no fun. When you are up and about, WALK - it keeps your intestines moving, is good for circulation, etc. No hiking up hills, just strolls.

- If you can recruit someone to be with you, pre-op, post-op, as much as possible, do.

-TAKE your pain medicine. You need it not just for pain, but also to rest your body. Do NOT wait until you are in pain the first day or so - just take it and sleep. After that, do not wait too long when the pain begins to take it. I'm not suggesting there's a lot of pain, most guys say there is not.

- Be sure and wear the compression shirt or ace bandage or whatever they suggest/provide. Actually, if they suggest an ace bandage, get a compression shirt (you can google it, I can't remember the people who make the more popular one). Get two, one to wear while you wash the other. They are very helpful in telling you which size to order. Keep it on, especially the first few days post-op - It will help prevent any hematomas, help the nipples to adhere, hold the incision areas close together for better healing. The longer you wear it, the better.

- Do NOT hesitate to call your surgeon at any time you have a concern. They work for YOU; you paid good money, and there is always someone covering or on call to address a concern.

Congrats!

I am in the midst of scheduling my top surgery and I sound like a bleeping idiot on the phone-- its like, I am super excited but super nervous that I am finally here at this point of my life.

If you have already had Top Surgery, what kind of things would you recommend (healing, preparing)? What kind of questions did you all ask? Who did you go to, and why?

If you haven't had surgery yet - do you plan on sometime in future? Who do you want to go to, and why?

Not sure where everyone is located, but if you are in the East coast area, I hope you all are safe, keeping warm -- and know we are thinking of all of you.

Best,

[DMW]

I've ran into femmes that aren't sure about FTMs and how they identify. They have made mistakes calling me her, she, girl.. and It blew me away.. I somehow get more upset when this happens in our own community then if a straight identifying person would mess that up. Has anyone ran into that also? and
another question to you all is, do you think femme women understand FTM better than a straight woman or vice versa? What are your experiences with this?

and.. another question yet, Who do you share that you are an FTM with and do you explain it or do you just let others assume you are butch, lesbian or a straight male or however they may view or perceive you?

I think this has to do with the level of awareness, knowledge, exposure to or with and experience that each woman has had with FTM's in general.
Whether the woman identifies as gay or straight...i am not sure that applies.

I believe that a woman will understand as much i am willing to share with her.


[Derailed thought...
My first long term relationship was with a woman who had only dated biomales...and at that time in my life i identified as butch (or just me).
I was perceived as a ...wow...I hear this overwhellming voice of hers in my head...
"But, you are so much like a guy". Very true. I always felt that way and I
always was like that. This particular woman...struggled with understanding
that...hell, i had to tell her eventually, "I guess i am gay, i am a butch and if you are seriously interested in a relationship and a future with me. Then, you need to understand that...this is how we will be perceived as a couple. A gay couple" I basically told her that she had to really understand that and accept that in order for us to move forward together as a couple. And i put a hold and break on us to give us both time.
(So odd and ironic...it is like the pot calling the kettle black in a way...
if i hadn't repressed and shoved down my feelings for so long growing up because society is so babyblue(boy) and lightpink(girl) and gotten in that...i don't know forced routine of this is how you should be...because you were born a girl...and this is how society expects you to be...(so wrong) maybe i would have snapped out of it sooner? Life gets busy for all of us too.
I was focused on school and my future and working part time during the start of that relationship...I see now (not that i haven't thought of it prior to this and since pretransition) that i needed time too. I recall now, with more reflection, that i was finishing up final exams and in the process of taking company entrance exams for my career.]


At least for me, personally, i am perceived as male and identify as male an ftm-male.
So, i explain to those whom i respect and grow to love. If i desire to and feel that they are deserving of my effort i will share more of who i am with them.
For the most part, all of my responses have been positive.
It helps grow some understanding between the relationships.



I don't tell anyone usually. I had to tell my back doctor, who was sitting and looking at my MRI (which clearly showed my hoo-ha) -he was trying to tell me that some of my symptoms might be my prostate.



In general, that is how i live my life. Perceived as male and will only come out when i deem it necessary.

This is a whole knew sphere too...i purposefully did not go to get an
MRI done for my back....because i worked at the only hospital in the city i lived in. I knew there was the possibility of outing myself there...cause of pelvic bones (xray) or the MRI soft tissue...as you point out.
I went to a chiropractor instead. But, never had tests done which should
have been. Because...i would have outted myself (to yet more people) at my work place. The whole...diagnostic, radiation, ultrasound..etc...group.
I needed that job. It was a smaller town and i didn't want to jeopardize our financial security.
Could not move from that city at the time for other reasons too.

[DMW]

- Button up shirts - very hard (and bad for later scarring) to reach over your head

- you will get a list before surgery of things the doc wants you to do or not. I would ASK for a prescription for Zofran - just in case you get nauseous either from being post op, the trauma of it all, or the pain killers.

-Start taking metamucil or one of the other fiber drinks ASAP when you return. You will get constipated from the pain medicine, and that's no fun. When you are up and about, WALK - it keeps your intestines moving, is good for circulation, etc. No hiking up hills, just strolls.

- If you can recruit someone to be with you, pre-op, post-op, as much as possible, do.

-TAKE your pain medicine. You need it not just for pain, but also to rest your body. Do NOT wait until you are in pain the first day or so - just take it and sleep. After that, do not wait too long when the pain begins to take it. I'm not suggesting there's a lot of pain, most guys say there is not.

- Be sure and wear the compression shirt or ace bandage or whatever they suggest/provide. Actually, if they suggest an ace bandage, get a compression shirt (you can google it, I can't remember the people who make the more popular one). Get two, one to wear while you wash the other. They are very helpful in telling you which size to order. Keep it on, especially the first few days post-op - It will help prevent any hematomas, help the nipples to adhere, hold the incision areas close together for better healing. The longer you wear it, the better.

- Do NOT hesitate to call your surgeon at any time you have a concern. They work for YOU; you paid good money, and there is always someone covering or on call to address a concern.

Congrats!

Great post Hominid...I don't think you left out any of the most pertinent points. Thanks for sharing. Good advice. I concur.

And Congratulations Ahk! And it is true...it isn't that painful...and it doesn't last for long either.

Do follow Hominid's advice...those suggestions are all very important.

[DMW]

I thought the BMV _ DMV was going to need my DNA and finger prints inorder for me to get a legal picture id...which i have to have here... in order to vote in this state...
"mr...*****there is someone else who has your soc. sec. #...you need to
call them and tell them....that was last week...fixed that...
Nope not them....it is your system...
Oh fun times....
registered a few months ago....cause i just moved here...
Hours and days at the license branch and plenty of paperwork and legal evidence of everything...:seeingstars:
I am not the only one either...fuck if they were going to stop me...i was going to go to the news and make a stink just to let people know what the hell goes on. I laughed with my friend and thought...you know i have an old id...and ugh...maybe i should just dress in drag and put on a wig and see what happens....fuck me...i didn't know...

Took me three times and hours to get my mofo driver's license...Fun times..first time
i ever failed a ? on the test also...got 3 wrong. had to scramble to get the test done
before they closed yesterday...had to go back and just about whip out my pecker to get it done.
FUCK....

I was to go canvas in ohio for tomorrow.. i work monday...isn't happening
now. But, i am definately going to canvas here and make phone calls here.


http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/11/02/voter-identification-laws-create-unique-problems-for-transgender-voters.html

[DMW]

Morinin peeps.

Voting ...I am wondering if anyone else here has had trouble getting their
soc. sec. ..ID ..straight etc. inorder to vote? So weird.
The poor people looked at me so confused and asked why? Long story...

I was reading another thread,in the trans zone(trans appreciation),
and it got me thinking...and thinking of loss and being a transsexual.
I realize that I experienced personal loss too.
A part of myself...and i knew i would when i transitioned.
[ For me, i had to do this because i felt like a male ever since i can recall... my own identity of self.(ex. I cut my hair at 2 years old because someone said that my curly hair was cute. )
So, i know what was best for me.]

The personal loss was losing that female butch person i loved and had grown to become. I was proud of being a strong female butch. Just proud of who i was.
I didn't want people who knew me...acquaintances...family...friends...to think that i was transitioning because i was ashamed of who i was as a female butch...or that i was ashamed of being "gay". This is one aspect of transitioning that i struggled with Big Time.

My mother's voice is in my head..."but i had a girl...i gave birth to a girl"...i remember listening to her and sharing that loss with her. I had to console her.
It broke my heart. I could the pain in her eyes.
I understand...that is the loss that she experienced.
I had to explain to her that i was the same soul...the same person...
eventually, the more i shared
with her...the more she understood.

So, before transitioning...I had to make it very clear to people that i was not ashamed of who i was as a female butch, and that was NOT any reason as to why i felt the need to transition. In fact, i struggled with the very fact that (some people) would assume or did assume that. grrr.
So, i found myself needing and wanting to explain to the obtuse. That i was not transitioning
to be a man...because i look up to or want to aspire to be like all Men
in general. It just has to do with my internal identity. my mind...my knowledge of self and self awareness...an evolution and a freedom to be closer to who i am.

Coffee...

I highly recommend this book and pamplet...for transmen and their families.
http://www.amazon.com/Trans-Forming-Families-Stories-Transgendered/dp/0615123074

http://www.pflag.org/fileadmin/user_upload/Publications/OTC_5thedition.pdf

[DMW]

Actually, I am tired of being mis-gendered, being referred to as "lady" or "ma'am" -- I don't get it. My voice is significantly deeper than my wife's voice, I dress nothing like a "lady" or a "ma'am", I walk different, I hold myself more masculine, but I'm still "ma'am'd"-- What gives?

( I really feel like I am in the "betweener" stage of transition (it sucks) actually )

Yeah I don't get that either. I can walk a mile and two different people will address me differently, one as ma'am, one as sir. . and it baffles me to hell. That's why I say I look at what I wear, what I'm doing at the moment, etc.. to try and figure it the hell out. Same as on the telephone. So now, I just try to speak deeper. lmfao! If all else fails, confuse the hell out of them!


I can relate to the betweener stage as you put it. I get ma'am or sir depending on the person be it a man or woman. I think that men tend to sir me more often than women. It is embarrassing for them and awkward for me when they double check Me for sex markers ie breasts and change the sir to a ma'am. I'd be happy if they just left it like it was to begin with. Gender policing as I see it, especially in the South were ma'am and sir are used more often, than when I lived in the North.


This is such a tough time when it comes to transitioning...the best thing to do is just to try and relax and be yourself...I used to call myself a "wuzzle" because on the SAT sample test ?'s...prior to the test... that is the example that was stated over and over...A wuzzle is defined as...to mix. A wuzzle means to Mix. And it was so apropo for that time period.(I was lucky. I just cut my hair and i looked pretty male after that. I used my hair to hide and stuff the way i felt i guess. I think i was conditioned from childhood. To correct people who would call me a boy.) Anyhow, i had a girlfriend who would just look at people in a restaurant...she enjoyed whenever someone looked confused about me. She would tell me..." I just love watching their confusion and their pained faces. They are baffled" . She was right.

Dr Seuss...thing 1 and thing 2...they do it for me, also. I have a Christmas
Ornament that i am very proud of...I am a transexxual and I am proud.
And i am a wuzzle inside. No matter how i am perceived. Smile.
And I am proud of all of you guys going through this journey.

Onto to the election..:vigil:

[alexri]

It's around 5:30 am right now. I should be on the way to the gym, but I am staying at home this morning so I can vote instead. My polling area is notorious for long lines and running out of ballets at night so I vote first thing in the morning.

Right now I'm fueled just on pure morning adrenaline. I hope this all comes out right.. thoughts just kinda pouring out through the keyboard.

So... first of all, I appreciate that the majority of the people on this online community can understand that someone can identify as a trans person without actually going through the transition, either by choice, because of lack of resources, because of medical restrictions, or for whatever reason. I stopped seeing a counselor who said "well if you don't want to have surgery right away, you're not trans."

Lesbian never felt right to me. It took me until I got to college to appreciate what had been there all along- a definite attraction and physical/sexual desires for females, not males. Yes I did sleep with bio males when I was in high school. I *thought* I was supposed to do that. And I did with a few, thinking *I'm supposed to like this, maybe he's just doing it wrong.* Nothing. And actually: it was revolting. And even in those relationships I was the dominant person. I wouldn't even call them relationships I think.

It wasn't until college where I finally talked to a trusted friend about how I felt. Coming from a very conservative family (who called me last night to make sure I would vote for Romney, ugh), I literally had no idea what gay or lesbian meant until someone explained it to me. And the light bulb went on! But still, even though I had started dating women, something was quite wrong. It's taken me another 10-15 years to appreciate the other part of my life that has been there all along-- the inner feeling that I am male, a male soul, male energy.

Looking back on it all, through my own thoughts and through therapy, so many signs are obvious. A lifelong revolting feeling to dresses, makeup, female-identified activities. Always automatically being the "dad" when playing house. Always playing with the boys and not the girls. Rejecting dolls for trucks. Never fitting in at school because people didn't know what to make of me. Sneaking into my parent's basement during the night, lighting candles like an altar, and then praying to god to fix me. Wondering for so long what was wrong with me. Crying for days when my menstrual cycle started because it meant I really was a girl. I have always cringed when I was called "beautiful" or "pretty." There's always been this internal lack of comfort when I am addressed by my assigned female name, so much to the point where I don't even say it when I answer the phone. I wanted to change my name as early as high school. And then there's the body dysmorphia... all the times of looking in a mirror and just breaking out into tears. Always wearing clothing that hid my body and my female curves. Wearing men's clothes for over 25 years. There's so many examples. For a while to me I thought it was being a butch. But even that wasn't right. In college I was brought to lesbian bars by groups of friends. I felt like I was in the wrong place. If only the little voice in my head that now can say "you are male" had the words for it years ago, I could have spared myself from a lot of depression, self-hate, isolation, and feelings of being unworthy. It wasn't until I started going to trans groups that I felt comfortable.

Genderqueer really didn't exist 10 years ago, and transgender rights were barely on the radar. My age group grew up with negative images of trans people (think Silence of the Lambs). Even 10 years ago I can remember fights at activism meetings about including the T in GLBT and how many people thought this group did not belong. And there are those within the T community that think that if you are not going through surgery and hormones, you are not really trans. The reality is, people like us have existed throughout societies around the world for centuries. And unfortunately too many people attacked what they did not understand. Sometimes I wonder if we adopt labels for a comfort level for ourselves, or for the comfort of others, so people know how to treat us. I am very appreciative that groups have started to move to the umbrella approach for equality, recognizing that while legally wording and labels have to be specific for protection/rights because society as a whole pigeonholes us, but in reality gender and sexual identify are much more fluid.

I feel like our society is still so rooted in male/female, pink/blue, that it doesn't know how to handle those that identify as the opposite gender, have gone through transition, are in the middle, or those who simply identify as something different than the vessels we were born in. Fortunately the world is changing much faster than ever before, and today's youth is much more open minded, understanding and accepting. I can only hope things will be much easier for the next generation, and that someday people will look back at GLBT rights and shake their heads at what took so long. And I need to turn all my pain into something positive. What can I do to make sure no other person has to suffer, to agonize, to contemplate suicide? How can I help my community? How can I stay connected? Transgender feels like the right word for me. Right now my life focus is on what I ignored for so long- self love and self respect.

My other life motto is: "be a gentleman." I picture myself being the best example of a man I can be. I unfortunately do see FTMs in the community who absorb what I personally see to be the worst characteristics of men- not treating women with respect and seeing them as equal; using derogatory words to describe women, etc. To me it's about standing up for the rights of women and for equality issues such as equal pay, abortion rights, healthcare, etc. It's about being conscious with my words and manners. It's about being respectful and protective, not because women are weak (which they are most definitely not!), but out of loyalty and appreciation. As I grow more confident about who I am, I have found myself challenging things I would be too scared to face years ago.

I saw a post in a Facebook group where someone said "I am a FTG: a female to gentleman." I like that.

Time to get up for voting/work. Sorry about my rambling here.

[DMW]

Thanks for sharing Alex. Ramble on...i dig it. I hope others will too.

I got in and got to vote. Had to go vote early... cause i was awake and genrally do that also.
My adrenaline if burning up also...I believe i have turned to cortisol. Yulk.
Nothing like voting in someone's barn. Weird...
I am grateful that my name was on the rolls and not my old one...
I was prepared to show all my id and then deal with provisionals if
necessary.

Now, i want to know about victor...infinity?


GO OBAMA BIDEN 2012

[Sun]

Good Morning All,

Is there a TDOR thread around here? I am wondering what events are goinng on around the country this year. If there is no thread I may start one. The national site is not always updated well and I really want to see this event get more visibility this year.

Thanks!

[Linus]

Good Morning All,

Is there a TDOR thread around here? I am wondering what events are goinng on around the country this year. If there is no thread I may start one. The national site is not always updated well and I really want to see this event get more visibility this year.

Thanks!

http://www.butchfemmeplanet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2926

[Sun]

http://www.butchfemmeplanet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2926

Thanks Linus.

[GraffitiBoi]

Hi guys. Just popping in here to vent for a minute.

I called the trans clininc where I live today so I can get back on T. I was on T for 7 years before having to stop while my regular doctor took care of some medical issues I had. I'm now healthy enough to go back on T (yay!) so I called up my old clinic. Ummm... wtf??? The woman I talked to said because it's been a couple of years I have to start the process over. Intake, eval, therapy, etc. before going on T. Huh? Why? I did all that before. I've also had my top surgery and my hysto (I don't plan on having lower surgery) and have been living as male for 12 years. So explain to me why I have to go through all the hoops again to prove that I'm trans?

I can understand needing to do lab work and physical before being allowed to get my prescription again. That's common sense. But to have to go through the initial eval and therapy that I went through back in 2000 when I first started transition??? It's been 12 years since I started my journey, I'm pretty sure this isn't 'just a phase'. LOL

My family Dr would write me the script, but I want to go through the clinic since they know what to keep an eye out for when I have my labs and follow up appointments.

Anyway... I just needed to get that off my chest and let out a little steam. Thanks for listening!

[Linus]

Hi guys. Just popping in here to vent for a minute.

I called the trans clininc where I live today so I can get back on T. I was on T for 7 years before having to stop while my regular doctor took care of some medical issues I had. I'm now healthy enough to go back on T (yay!) so I called up my old clinic. Ummm... wtf??? The woman I talked to said because it's been a couple of years I have to start the process over. Intake, eval, therapy, etc. before going on T. Huh? Why? I did all that before. I've also had my top surgery and my hysto (I don't plan on having lower surgery) and have been living as male for 12 years. So explain to me why I have to go through all the hoops again to prove that I'm trans?

I can understand needing to do lab work and physical before being allowed to get my prescription again. That's common sense. But to have to go through the initial eval and therapy that I went through back in 2000 when I first started transition??? It's been 12 years since I started my journey, I'm pretty sure this isn't 'just a phase'. LOL

My family Dr would write me the script, but I want to go through the clinic since they know what to keep an eye out for when I have my labs and follow up appointments.

Anyway... I just needed to get that off my chest and let out a little steam. Thanks for listening!

That sucks! I could see lab work/physical but I'd imagine that unless you stopped because you questioned the choice then it'd make sense to do the rest... Hopefully they make it a quick process (when I started in NYC, they were surprisingly quick for me).

[GraffitiBoi]

That sucks! I could see lab work/physical but I'd imagine that unless you stopped because you questioned the choice then it'd make sense to do the rest... Hopefully they make it a quick process (when I started in NYC, they were surprisingly quick for me).

If they schedule me with who I think they will... I can get the script after the first appointment. My appointment is in January. It still bugs me though. As it is I'm struggling with my insurance to cover it. It's not normally covered but I'm fighting it under 'continuity of care.' My employer can go and have it included in the benefits package but our company is just too huge to go that route (very large world-wide corporation.)

[Linus]

If they schedule me with who I think they will... I can get the script after the first appointment. My appointment is in January. It still bugs me though. As it is I'm struggling with my insurance to cover it. It's not normally covered but I'm fighting it under 'continuity of care.' My employer can go and have it included in the benefits package but our company is just too huge to go that route (very large world-wide corporation.)


Why would be a large company prevent them from having it covered? Lots of large companies have it (e.g., Microsoft, Google, etc.). I'm currently trying to get my company to get it (we also a large global company) but it's been a fight for a while yet.

[GraffitiBoi]

Why would be a large company prevent them from having it covered? Lots of large companies have it (e.g., Microsoft, Google, etc.). I'm currently trying to get my company to get it (we also a large global company) but it's been a fight for a while yet.

I should have clarified... It doesn't prevent them from covering it. They are pro LGBT everything. It just makes it a long hard process for me to get it included.

[Hominid]

I'm surprised your regular doctor, after being on it for so long, doesn't feel comfortable prescribing it -

[GraffitiBoi]

I'm surprised your regular doctor, after being on it for so long, doesn't feel comfortable prescribing it -

She'll prescribe it but doesn't know enough to monitor it from a transgender perspective. I had a condition that progressed rapidly due to T use and it wasn't caught. I ended up having surgery to fix the issue, and the damage to several of my internal organs. I'm fine now and will have no more problems when on T again, but my Dr thinks it would be better for me if I go to a clinic that knows more about transgender patients. She's still willing to write the script for me, but I guess I want to play it safe as well.

[DMW]

So explain to me why I have to go through all the hoops again to prove that I'm trans?

I can understand needing to do lab work and physical before being allowed to get my prescription again. That's common sense. But to have to go through the initial eval and therapy that I went through back in 2000 when I first started transition??? It's been 12 years since I started my journey, I'm pretty sure this isn't 'just a phase'. LOL

My family Dr would write me the script, but I want to go through the clinic since they know what to keep an eye out for when I have my labs and follow up appointments.

Anyway... I just needed to get that off my chest and let out a little steam. Thanks for listening!

Dude, i have been through some of that myself. I moved around for various reasons and i had to do that in...what would be a total of 5 different states, now! OY. Never planned to move so much either. Seriously.
Anyhow, i feel your pain. If it makes you feel any better... I recently had to go through that. I went to a local trans group, with a set plan and goal in mind. First, where are the good trans Dr's.? if any? Interestingly enough the Dr. that was recommended to me by a younger transman, with an assurance that i would get what i needed, i rejected. I went in to the office...bracing myself for the reality that i may have to do the trans 101...information session again...blah blah blah...I did have to do quite a bit.
As this Dr. sees mostly Females. I was told that she doesn't just hand the T out which is good...you know...cause like you said...labs are important.

So, she looked at me and said..."***** i know that you have been on T, you have a beard etc...so, you do not need to show me any writen documention or give my any explanation as to why you need to continue taking it."
She was smiling and laughing at me...
Thank God she was an older Dyke lesbian. I think she is. If she were a femme...i don't know if I would feel so comfortable. I would be shy.
Do you feel that way? Nothing against femmes at ALL! I would just be shy about some topics.

All i can say is...what a relief! So, keep your chin up Graffiti..

[DMW]

She'll prescribe it but doesn't know enough to monitor it from a transgender perspective. I had a condition that progressed rapidly due to T use and it wasn't caught. I ended up having surgery to fix the issue, and the damage to several of my internal organs. I'm fine now and will have no more problems when on T again, but my Dr thinks it would be better for me if I go to a clinic that knows more about transgender patients. She's still willing to write the script for me, but I guess I want to play it safe as well.

Definately, good to go local and do labs...Sorry that you have had trouble in the past. Sounds like an endocrinologist...etc...and more specialists may be necessary. You don't have to go into details here. I am glad that you are being careful.
Gotta have the labs...after you start...at least 3 months post. I think that you are going the right route and doing the right thing.

[alexri]

I know I'm living a double life. It's draining. I'm myself when I can be, and I'm biologically female when I have to be right now... at work, with family, with friends who don't know. But every now and then I have a public experience that makes me have hope, and makes me see what I'm missing.

While I was out training last weekend, I passed a young girl and her mother on a bike path. I heard the girl say, "he's definitely a boy, but he looks like a girl. He must hate that."

A month ago, in an all women's race, I heard a young boy who was spectating say, "hey there's a guy in the race."

Kids get it before their minds are polluted by society. They question because they want to understand, but they don't judge.

Then, I got "sir'd" at the grocery store last night. I had my hat on, and was looking down, when the cashier said it to me. The glow on my face on the ride home could have lit up NYC.

Now, what I need is courage. The courage to stop thinking of all the "what if's" and go legally change my name. I need the courage this of how to handle this at work, especially knowing I am fully supported by HR. I need the courage to love myself enough to be myself all the time.

[DMW]

But every now and then I have a public experience that makes me have hope, and makes me see what I'm missing.

Kids get it before their minds are polluted by society. They question because they want to understand, but they don't judge.

Now, what I need is courage. The courage to stop thinking of all the "what if's" and go legally change my name. I need the courage this of how to handle this at work, especially knowing I am fully supported by HR. I need the courage to love myself enough to be myself all the time.


Alexri,

The hope will grow and those positive experiences will occur for you more often, than not.
Kids do get it before the adults. They just have not been conformed to the norm. They are not fully molded with the gender bias. And surprisingly, either are the majority of adults when given a chance and explanation. I promise...this, is my experience.

And the Courage...YOU ALREADY HAVE COURAGE AND ARE DOING IT!
CHEERS TO YOU! YOU ALREADY HAVE THAT COURAGE Alex.

I am proud of transmen like you. Thank you. And remember, you already
are yourself inside...you always have been.
I am glad that i happened to be around the puter and saw this.
I should subscribe to the thread.

I have done the HR thing as butch...applied to a job as a butch and
had to go to HR after and explain. I just put my driver's license on the desk
of the head of HR and started talking...After of course I told them i needed
a private personal meeting with them.
Feel free to pm. me.

Take care now,
DMW

[alexri]

Did you ever have that point where you're walking past a window or a mirror, and out of the corner of your eye, you see him? You see your reflection, and it's him?

Or when someone's dog comes up to you, and the dog owner says, "that's weird, my dog only acts that way around men"?

I know who I am. All the pieces of the puzzle fit now. It's the explanation for so much in life... the total lack of interest in all girl-centered toys growing up; faking an interest in boy bands in grammar school because that's what I was supposed to like; never, ever feeling comfortable in lesbian bars, feeling like an outsider; the body dysmorphia; the total lack of comfort during certain sexual activities; dressing in men's clothes for over 20 years... and on, and on, and on.

At this point, I am just afraid. Afraid of the rejection. Afraid of the reaction of family, friends and coworkers. Afraid of going through body-altering changes and finding that it made me no happier than I am now.

Somedays I think I can go along faking it. Other days I cringe. Yes I do talk to a therapist about this, and I do belong to a couple of in-person trans social groups who are totally accepting.

Just rambling tonight.

[Crow]

I want to go on record and thank Medusa for not lumping all Trans guys into the same catagory of "femme bashers".

It has been my honor and privilege to have been loved by a femme or two in this lifetime. I would not be who I am today without their kind of love.

There is more than a little to say about the beauty of not having to explain who I am to a femme.

They are the safe place in this world for us.

Thank you ladies. From the bottom of this guys heart.

As to the thread and the question of when to disclose...I have always felt the best approach is honesty. From the start. Deception is never fair in any form.

Crow

[UUDan]

Hi Folks. This is my first post. I am FTM, and just a little under 2 years on T. I'm ready to jump into the dating pool, but I'm finding the pool to be very shallow. I fully "pass" as a biomale now. To look at me, you'd never know I was born female. Anyway, I am interested in dating women. It doesn't much matter to me what they identify as - femme, lesbian, straight, etc... But since I haven't really dated since adopting my new identity, I wasn't sure if asking a straight woman out would be some sort of "false advertising" so to speak. I kinda thought I was going to be limited to the LGBT community as dating options, but now I am starting to question that. Why should I limit myself? If I am attracted to someone, I'd like to feel OK to ask her out. I'm curious to hear from more experienced transguys on this. Have you asked straight girls out? If so, how/when did you disclose you were trans? What were their reactions?

Peace-

Dan

[Linus]

So I'm all excited. I just found out that my company has added full GRS coverage to the benefits program, to the tune of $50,000 (!!). I had tried back in 2008/2009 to get this done but didn't get too far. Recently a transwoman in the company took the lead on this stuff and just hammered HR with facts and figures. This probably explains why my T was covered on the last prescription I picked up.

[DMW]

I recently went through some std testing at a local, county, clinic because I have been with a few women in the past couple of years. I find it very interesting how I am assumed to be a biomale and relieved at that, I must say. That has never really been an issue. The interesting part is needing and wanting appropriate ( broadbased) healthcare for trans people. I guess I have an internal conflict.

So, when asked to piss into a cup for chlamydia, syphilis and other fun stuff...when in fact I was in a room full of biomales...I realized that I may be asked to perform this without a door on the restroom stall. The unknown tends to be a little anxiety inducing.

I wonder about myself and why I didn't want to out myself to the county? It is a struggle. On the questionnaire, FTM male was an option. And i thought it impressive that we are recognized by the county. However, that recognition of trans people could be for legal reasons etc.

Why wouldn't I put myself out there? well, they asked for my soc. sec. number etc. I put it down there and other identifiers. I feel that I always have to consider prejudice and future employment. Other reasons to not devulge my FTM status...some days I just want to be myself and not have to fight a fight. to not have to explain myself or answer questions. Some days my patience for the ignorant is severely limited. Who knows? Lot to ponder. Not that I haven't been here before. I feel that it is a weakness to not stand up and say..."damn right I am FTM and proud of who I am." Maybe that is what is bothering me...I passed up an opportunity to put another one of us on the books...in this state anyway.
Many a time I have come out...many a time. I suppose that is what is bothering me. That I didn't this time.
They did give me a free packet of condoms and I am free of std's.
Funny, FTM's need condoms too.
Ramble.

[PwrFemme]

That's great Linus!!

[PwrFemme]

Hi Folks. This is my first post. I am FTM, and just a little under 2 years on T. I'm ready to jump into the dating pool, but I'm finding the pool to be very shallow. I fully "pass" as a biomale now. To look at me, you'd never know I was born female. Anyway, I am interested in dating women. It doesn't much matter to me what they identify as - femme, lesbian, straight, etc... But since I haven't really dated since adopting my new identity, I wasn't sure if asking a straight woman out would be some sort of "false advertising" so to speak. I kinda thought I was going to be limited to the LGBT community as dating options, but now I am starting to question that. Why should I limit myself? If I am attracted to someone, I'd like to feel OK to ask her out. I'm curious to hear from more experienced transguys on this. Have you asked straight girls out? If so, how/when did you disclose you were trans? What were their reactions?

Peace-



Dan

Dan,

I'm not trans and you didn't ask for thoughts from femmes but I had a thought and decided to share it. When I read your post I thought, "Now if this were a bio male asking a bio female out and he had some certain thing about himself, say that he had a child. Would he disclose this on a date?"

My answer was, "maybe not, maybe he would wait until he felt like something positive was developing between them." I don't know how many dates that would be. And maybe he would feel her out, like ask how she feels about kids, etc.

What I am saying, Dan, is that I don't feel you need to "confess" this information about yourself unless you develop feelings for a woman and want to see if there may be a long lasting relationship, otherwise it's not really her business.

[PwrFemme]

I know I'm living a double life. It's draining. I'm myself when I can be, and I'm biologically female when I have to be right now... at work, with family, with friends who don't know. But every now and then I have a public experience that makes me have hope, and makes me see what I'm missing.

While I was out training last weekend, I passed a young girl and her mother on a bike path. I heard the girl say, "he's definitely a boy, but he looks like a girl. He must hate that."

A month ago, in an all women's race, I heard a young boy who was spectating say, "hey there's a guy in the race."

Kids get it before their minds are polluted by society. They question because they want to understand, but they don't judge.

Then, I got "sir'd" at the grocery store last night. I had my hat on, and was looking down, when the cashier said it to me. The glow on my face on the ride home could have lit up NYC.

Now, what I need is courage. The courage to stop thinking of all the "what if's" and go legally change my name. I need the courage this of how to handle this at work, especially knowing I am fully supported by HR. I need the courage to love myself enough to be myself all the time.

Alexri,

This brought to mind people saying, "Oh I knew, I was just waiting for you to tell me." I imagine you will come across haters and you will also have your cheerleaders. You always have. If you look back over your life you will realize this and know that you have always come through and nothing stopped you. It sounds like you are an athlete so I am sure you have learned how to get back up when down and keep on going. You have the strength inside to do this. Those who love you and believe in you will continue to cheer you on and you will forget the names and faces of the haters.

[PwrFemme]

I have a question based on another thread. In the other thread they are discussing marriage titles, basically what a butch is called. HeelBilli and I have been legally married for 2 years. I have always referred to Heel as my spouse. Heel is going to trans and we have now been discussing this title issue. I don't really feel comfortable with the title, "husband". I can't explain why. What are your thoughts? Have any of you faced this situation? Thanks :)

[Linus]

PwrFemme: this thread was meant to be for FTMs to vent and not really meant for conversation or comment, if possible. For your questions, it may be better to go here: http://www.butchfemmeplanet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92

[PwrFemme]

PwrFemme: this thread was meant to be for FTMs to vent and not really meant for conversation or comment, if possible. For your questions, it may be better to go here: http://www.butchfemmeplanet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92

K thanks...

[little man]

for those of you who don't know me, i'm about 10-11 years in on transition. i'm still pre-op, as a long line of shitty paying jobs does not allow much to save for surgery. add to that a lack of health insurance, and well....here i am. i've been living fully as male for almost that entire time. i'm a short guy, and was worried that would be an issue, but it has not been.

being a veteran, i get my labs and T through the VA outpatient clinic. i was a bit wary at first, but everyone has been absolutely wonderful, no issues at all. although, the radiology clinic (outside the VA) was a bit confused when i went for a mammogram. turns out the x-ray tech that did it has a friend who's trans. small world, ain't it?

about 6 yrs ago, i moved back to the midwest from the east coast, to care for my mom. after she died, i hung out for another year, then decided i could pay bills from anywhere. i am possessed of a gypsy soul, so it was about time to hit the road anyway. i moved to the austin,tx area, so i could focus on photography. since there is so much live music here, i was certain i could get myself situated as a photog here. well, there are a few colleges around here that seem to churn out 10 photography students every 5 minutes. and, they'll shoot for free. as it turned out, i fell into shooting burlesque. yeah, i know...tough row to hoe. i'm getting fairly established in that community, and bless their hearts, they are very queer friendly.

i shot a show last week that had several awesome performances. one of them included black light and the pouring of neon paint over the dancer's body. visually stunning. i talked to the woman who did that performance, and we agreed we need to shoot that outside a performance venue. one thing turned into another and we've decided to embark on a project on women's body image, social expectations of women's bodies and their performance as women, as well as rape culture, domestic violence, reproductive rights...a performance coupled with an art show of images. it's an ambitious project, to say the least. we're hoping that attendance will fund the show well enough that we can travel with it, across the US.

all that said, i've been wondering (and weighing) whether "coming out" as trans would be beneficial to the project (and getting the involvement of other performers around the country). i doubt it would be detrimental to the project, but i do wonder about the impact it would have on my life. my ultimate ambition is to produce fine art and spend the rest of my working years doing something i love. for reference, i'm 55 right now, 56 in the fall.

when i first began transition, i was all about disclosing to anyone who'd listen. it was new, it was fabulous, it was a waking dream. now i've had time to settle into it, i mostly want to live my life and be left alone to pursue the things i'm interested in. i have not dated, nor been romantically involved with anyone since i began transition. the last few years, i've felt ready to dip my toe back in that puddle...but haven't really found anyone who sparks my imagination for very long. well, until recently, but we don't live anywhere near one another, and have not actually spent any time together....y'all know how that goes. so, dating/relationship is not a concern.

quite frankly, i'm not sure what approach to take to this. aside from being a private person by nature, i've not wanted being trans to the the first thing people think of when they hear my name.

thoughts?

[Turtle]

Hey little man, nice to see you, so to speak. It sounds like a great project!! I do a lot of my processing out loud...I'd talk it out with my partner in the project to help myself gain some clarity...kinda hearing the different parts as I push them around to get a feel for them and where the pieces might fit...that's me.


And I could definitely dig a traveling show/shoot/project.


And I've been reading "Letters For My Brothers: Transitional Wisdom in Retrospect" editied by Megan M. Rohrer and Zander Keig....it's very nice to get back into my Berkeley days and read old classmates and meet new ones...

...the book is advise from the post-transition perspective...good stuff to know, for everybody.

[little man]

Hey little man, nice to see you, so to speak. It sounds like a great project!! I do a lot of my processing out loud...I'd talk it out with my partner in the project to help myself gain some clarity...kinda hearing the different parts as I push them around to get a feel for them and where the pieces might fit...that's me.


And I could definitely dig a traveling show/shoot/project.


And I've been reading "Letters For My Brothers: Transitional Wisdom in Retrospect" editied by Megan M. Rohrer and Zander Keig....it's very nice to get back into my Berkeley days and read old classmates and meet new ones...

...the book is advise from the post-transition perspective...good stuff to know, for everybody.

hey, good to see you again, as well.

i appreciate your input, but find myself with the same question. the woman i'm teaming up with for this project has no clue about my status. i don't get the feeling that it'd matter, really, but am still up in the air. would it make life easier or more difficult, i wonder...

[Liam]

Hey little man, nice to hear how things are going for you in Austin. I am guided by my gut, when it comes to "coming out," as a transman. It has worked well for me. I've had some delightful experiences, in situations that I never intended to share that information, and I have not had any negative repercussion from withholding it either. As always, best of luck!

[alexri]

I am thinking more and more about a physical transition.

I have been self-identifying as male for long over a year now. It was something I didn't even think to do. I realize it's been there all along; I just didn't name it/own it.

I've thought about gender issues for many years now; my gender book library/reading/research goes back 10 years to college days. Kate Bornstein was a hero in college. But it never dawned on me that I could be a trans person until last year. It's almost like how it never dawned on me that I could be gay until college and someone talked to me about it. Now this is not me saying that someone else suggested this or dropped the ideas in my head. It was more working out the concepts. It's tied to having a very white, sheltered, catholic school upbringing. I had no idea what homosexuality was until I was 19 and in college. Seriously. I had no idea what trans people were until my late 20s. I just didn't know.

I can look back and see so many patterns and signs that were obvious in my life, but I just didn't know what they meant. I subconsciously shut so many things out, blocked so many thoughts, and now they are all coming back.

Flash back to a child who always played with trucks, legos and balls, and when given dolls, threw them away, or hung them from trees in the back yard. A child who was an outcast on the playground because of a desire to play in the sandbox/playground and not play with dolls or girls. A child who despised makeup, girly stuff, fashions, purses, etc. A child who cried at the though of having to wear a dress. A child who cried when a period started and to this day cringes or cries when it comes close. Someone who has known since a young age that there's no maternal instinct. Someone who was always chosen to play the father/dad in house, because it was right. Someone who wanted to emulate the men in movies and tv, and never the women.

Flash back to someone who covered his bedroom door with pictures of girls he had crushes on (celebrities) and cut up the pictures of the cute girls in the school yearbooks to stare at them. I'm the guy who had pictures of girls hidden under New Kids of the Block posters. As a child I wrote all the hot female celebrities through Teen Beat magazine; when they responded and sent photos, I ripped them up and threw them away because I felt ashamed about the feelings I had.

I can remember sitting in the car with my father, crying, asking him what was wrong with me, and why I wasn't like all the other girls. He had no response. I wonder if he knew. Or if he was denying it himself too.

See someone who spent most of youth alone, without seeing friends, having people over, because I never fit in. I was never invited to sleepovers. All the girls knew I was different. Someone who buried life in textbooks and extracurricular activities to avoid thinking about other things. And then, continued this trait in adult life, with work, food, and later, exercise/races, to avoid dealing with things.

Flash back to someone who had a lot of promiscuous sex with guys as a minor, because, "I was supposed to enjoy this.." "maybe it's just the wrong person..." before realizing I was attracted to women in college, despite having so many crushes and fantasies about girls (in school and on tv) for so long.

I can remember having dreams and fantasies growing up about a guy with no head making love to women. I didn't realize it was me.

I always despised wearing dresses or my school uniform. As soon as I got home from school that uniform skirt came off and was on the floor of my closet it. I hated it. I also wore as long of a skirt as I could, below my knees, to not expose my body. For seven years of grammar school and high school, as far as I can remember, I wore shorts or boxers under my skirt to feel normal. Clothes shopping used to make me cry, especially when I had to dress up for an event like an interview.

In grammar school I can remember being teased by the other girls, being called a lesbian and a tomboy, though I had no idea what it was. I just knew it was something bad because I was being laughed at. We'd be in gym and we'd be changing back into our school uniforms, and I'd take my top right off in front of everyone, not caring, seeing my chest as a chest, until other girls covered my body for me, and told me I needed a bra. I hated that stupid bra.

Once my female body developed, as far back as I can remember, I have always worn baggy, oversized clothing to hide curves and breasts. I've been wearing men's clothing for 20 years. I can remember getting ready for school in high school and just bursting into tears because I hated what I saw in the mirror. And I did the same in my adult life too. I can honestly say I believe I have sclerosis in my back (spine curled forward) because I've spent most of my life subconsciously hiding breasts with bad posture.

My whole life I have cringed and shriveled whenever anyone used works to describe me like "young lady," "beautiful," etc. At a young age, even at the grammar school level, I can recall hating my name. I lived with a nickname for a lot of high school and most of college. I've hated saying my first name at every job I've had when answering the phone, to the point where I really don't say it at all unless I have to. When I have been sired I've been overjoyed.

At the gym, I see the guys there. I don't want them. I want to look like them. I see the females that are in shape, and I don't want to look like them. I imagine what it would be like to have a muscular, flat chest, with pecs, not breasts.

If I had known one could transition, change genders, earlier in life... if I had only known... perhaps I would be more brave than I am now.

I watched a youtube video of a trans man last night talking about trans regret. He said he had lived as a woman for 40 years, and could probably have lived that way for another 40 years, but ultimately wanted to be himself. I've seen the stories of people who did regret transition, but based on what I have read and saw, my gutt tells me they were not trans in the first place, and that something else was going on.

I don't know what to do at this point. I have seen counselors. I have been a part of several local and national trans groups for the past year; meeting with people in person and online. I've talked to people who regretted their transition. I talked to people whose lives have become so much better. I feel so much more at home with these trans groups.

In the past I've gone to lesbian bars and women's clubs/organizations in the past and I never felt comfortable or that I belonged. I've never felt right calling myself a lesbian. I just didn't know what I was yet.

I know the reality of my family. It will never be accepted. They are die-hard, roman catholic, etc. They never accepted me dating women.

I feel stuck. Sometimes I feel like I can keep going like this, like I can keep living in the shell I was born into. I can think of it just being my soul/essence in the wrong body. I think I can manage. Then there are the times that I can understand and appreciate all those that said their life came down to "change or die." I have the speech I would say to my coworkers in my head. I recite it when I run/train. There are days where it does not phase me to use the women's room at work or a restaurant. There are days where I mentally block out the "wo" on the sign. Then there are the days where I absolutely need to go use the gender neutral bathroom at work.

I'm afraid. I'm afraid it's the wrong decision. I fear transitioning will not make me happy. I fear rejection. I fear regret. I hear the stories of friends and trans people denied jobs or housing because of who they are. I understand that when life changes, we lose things, but we often gain so much more. I also see the stories of those who say they are so much better off. I know transitioning is not a magic wand to fix everything wrong with you. I know it's not the end.

I think the best explanation I have heard from someone who transitioned is that in his past life as a female, he felt disconnected, like he was just going through the motions of life, living until the day (as a female) she'd die. I can understand that. There were times of depression, low times, high times. I totally get the feeling of being disconnected, never feeling like I belong in the time and place I am in. That's often how I felt, and how I can still feel now.

I know when people ask you what you want to do for a career, they'll ask you what you'd be doing if money weren't an issue. Then when you have that passion in your head, they say, go after it, figure out how to make it work, and don't settle. I can see the same with transition. If you had a magic wand that would make me transition right now, I'd say yes, absolutely use it. But the reality is that there is no magic wand.

I am just... scared.

Sorry for the long vent. I just know some of you will understand.

[Bad_boi]

Fuck heat. I can't be cool because I can't bind with my injury and have to wear a hoodie or a button down over a T. On top of that the heat messes with my anxiety attacks and makes me miserable.

Fuck the sun go way burn my ass another day.

[DapperButch]

Summer.

Yes, not looking forward to fighting to pull the back of the binder down when the skin is slightly moist. Ugh.

At least the triceps get a good stretch out of it. :|

[LoyalWolfsBlade]

Why is there a space on all medical forms for name preferred to be used if the damn people with degrees can not read it. Seriously I understand my legal name has to be on it for insurance purposes but they do not even have to glance down half a page or anything it is right under the other name. It is their form so they must realize it may be there. Just read the damn thing or do no give me the option to tell you.

Hopefully my new primary care doctor will not have this issue. Guess I will find out in about 12 hours.

[GraffitiBoi]

I am just... scared.

Sorry for the long vent. I just know some of you will understand.

Reading your story was like reliving my past, for the most part. I didn't grow up in a Catholic family and I went to public school, but I experienced about 99% of what you described. I started my transition in 2000 when I was 27. I went through three years of therapy before deciding transitioning was right for me. But I was still afraid it was the wrong decision. When I started I was told I would be denied hormones and surgeries if I didn't want to transition 100% to male. I knew then that I didn't want to be 100% male. I did not want lower surgery. So I lied. I was so convincing and got so used to lying about wanting lower surgery that I convinced myself I couldn't be male without it. I even researched lower surgeries and all the available options for it.

In 2003 I changed my name and started on hormones and was excited and happy when the changes finally started showing and I passed almost 100% of the time. In 2007 I was finally able to have top surgery and once again was beyond happy. In 2010 I had a hysterectomy. During this time I did lose some friends and the stress from trying to hide it from my family was almost unbearable. It wasn't until 2 years ago that I finally came out as trans to my entire immediate family. They understood but did not like it. They weren't even surprised. They still insist on calling me 'she' and using my old name when I go home to visit, but they understand that if they come here to visit me it's by my rules.

Over the years I struggled with the thought of lower surgery. Deep down I knew I didn't want it. Deep down I knew I was closer to Trans Masculine or Gender Queer. I like looking male and having a male chest. So I went back to therapy. This time I had a therapist who understood and got me to understand that I am not any less of a man because I don't want a penis. She got me to understand that it's not the physical that makes me who I am. It's how I feel inside. She is still trying to get me to believe that there is a woman/femme out there who will accept me as I am. As half and half. I meet and date women who say they understand and accept me for who I am, but inevitably they leave, stating I am not lesbian enough or male enough or, yes, even trans enough. One even went so far as to try and force me into going back to being female in appearance. I currently have two crushes but am so afraid to pursue anything beyond where they are at right now because I fear the rejection I have come to expect. Too many women have been with me for 'the story' or the novelty of telling their friends they slept with an FtM.

I have been very lucky that I have not had much discrimination in the workplace since moving to Minneapolis. Everyone seems very accepting here. I had one doctor who wouldn't treat me, but she explained it was because she had no experience with the medical needs of transgender patients and she gave me the name of a colleague who did have the experience. She wanted me to have the best care possible. To this day I have total respect for her.

It's a long, bumpy road. Some of it will be fantastic and some will be filled with potholes. All I can say is it's a road worth traveling and nothing is ever set in stone. I wish you the best on your journey.

[DapperButch]

How many things do all of us get frustrated with but don't talk about, because it is just a part of our daily life?

Case in point, I hate that I have to wear a sprots bra when I work out. Sure, I don't HAVE to, but if I want to breathe well and do a decent workout, I have to take off the binder.

I hate this. I had seeing myself in the gym mirror as I am lifting weights.

Anyone else struggle with this?

[alexri]

Case in point, I hate that I have to wear a sprots bra when I work out. Sure, I don't HAVE to, but if I want to breathe well and do a decent workout, I have to take off the binder.

I hate this. I had seeing myself in the gym mirror as I am lifting weights.

Anyone else struggle with this?

Yes. I totally understand this. I hate having to wear a sports bra but it holds the you know whats down the best for the gym. I also hate wearing white tech shirts because of the outline they can show. I hate seeing race photos where the photographer thinks he/she is doing me a favor by catching curves. I have to fight with some races to get them to give me the men's/unisex tech shirt instead of assigning me a women's cut shirt. The most comfortable thing I have found is to wear dark colored tech shirts.

I hate going into the women's locker room too.

[Kent]

Yes. I totally understand this. I hate having to wear a sports bra but it holds the you know whats down the best for the gym. I also hate wearing white tech shirts because of the outline they can show. I hate seeing race photos where the photographer thinks he/she is doing me a favor by catching curves. I have to fight with some races to get them to give me the men's/unisex tech shirt instead of assigning me a women's cut shirt. The most comfortable thing I have found is to wear dark colored tech shirts.

I hate going into the women's locker room too.

Yeah, guys.. I have the same problem as I'm pre-op too. I quit going to the gym because my dysphoria was so great and I became depressed. Now, I have gained 40 damn pounds. I'm going to join a small one owner gym here and get some personal training and start eating clean again and take this weight off. Once I lose about 20 pounds I'll join this other rehab/gym that has an Olympic size swimming pool and swim laps to work off the other 20 pounds and slim down. The weight gain has only made my dysphoria worse. You guys keep working out and don't let yourselves go like I did.

I understand everything you two are saying Alex and Dapper. I suffer from having these large chesticles and I cannot wait to get rid of them. Just know that you are not alone and we are all in this together. Ain't none of us gettin' out alive. Hang in there guys. :heavyweight:

[LoyalWolfsBlade]

Yeah I have the same problem well almost. Mine is when I have to wear a sports bra to work instead of my binder. Binders are extremely expensive so at the moment I only have one. Unfortunately I must have bought the wrong kind because it doesn't really work and my job is a physical one so I have to wear the sports bras I have. I absolutely hate it. My dysphoria is bad enough when I wear a baggy shirt but when I am in my work clothes and get a glimpse of me most times I feel literally ill from it.

On the bright side I did tell my boss last week I would be transitioning and starting the process in a month. She was cool with everything, even me using the men's bathroom. I have at least a year to go before I can even think about top surgery but I do get my t without a letter so there is that. Hopefully it will help with my dysphoria some.

[RNguy]

:) I'm post op top surgery and have started T once again. T hasn't reacted favorably for me in the past , in the sence that it caused my heart to go into rapid atrial fibrillation. Several weeks of being off the T , my heart rythm converted back to sinus tach which is normal for me so , its been many years later and ive started again so fingers crossed for me .
I can sympathize greatly with society rejections , snide remarks for all who have dealt with or are dealing with .
I'm born and raised in the heart of Appalachia . I still live in a rural location of Appalachia and well bi, gay , trans etc... are not well recieved to say the least .
Many months back I was at work , and a new critical care intensivist who made it clear that he has no tolerance for the " queers " asked who was taking care of his patient . My coworker stated Blake is over there . His retort to her was " get him, her , well IT over here now .
This Dr. Is no longer at that hospital and was from Pakistan or Libya , I forget .
I did hear him make this comment loud and clear as well as my coworkers , a social worker , an IT guy and two respiratory therapists .
The most awesome thing was that all of these people were sooo upset and felt hurt for me !!!! It totally affected my peers , as for me I laughed . I had a great shift so I was able to laugh but everyone was sad , and angry which was awesome.
So the head critical care director / doc finds me several days later , as by now , this has spread hospital wide and pulls me away and says " did that son of a bitch really call you an IT dude "? I laughed and said yep . He said " are you ok , do you want me to f?+&$?+ deal with him "? I said nope , its cool but dang thanks for asking . He said " what did you say " ?
I said nothin , honestly man, I was having a great day so I wasn't fazed and hear that shit all the time however if I had a crappy day and it was on the wrong day I would surely go off and say something . He laughed and said " dude what would you say "?
I said well I would say this isnt the bunker of anti-American , anti gay, anti woman's rights terrorist Taliban so you can't treat people this way here you son of a b?+&%.
:)
The director said Blake , if he ever , and I mean ever so much as looks at you snide , you say as you wish and you will not be in trouble in the least :).
Keep your heads up trans folks , thought id share that one

[RNguy]

I'm sitting here reading all these posts and am laying down laughing , and after nearly every read post I'm thinking " amen to that ", " yep been there too many times "," geez, we are all going through or have been through a lot of the same stuff here ", wow what that post said is sad , true , is funny now but it wasn't at the time " :)
I'm surely going to keep reading and posting here when I can more often.
Nice
Peace and love trans brothers

[ahk]

I wear a binder when I go to the gym. Screw the sports bra crap--. I don't wear the tightest binder that have, I wear the one that still holds me in but that is loose enough that I can breathe.

and the heat-- screw that shit. LOL.

[Greyson]

:) I'm post op top surgery and have started T once again. T hasn't reacted favorably for me in the past , in the sence that it caused my heart to go into rapid atrial fibrillation. Several weeks of being off the T , my heart rythm converted back to sinus tach which is normal for me so , its been many years later and ive started again so fingers crossed for me .


Blake, I think you know recently I had heart surgery. My Mitral Valve needed repair. Also, my heart was in rapid atrial fibrillation. During the surgery the valve was repaired and a procedure called a "maze" was performed on me for the atrial fibrillation.

When I was diagnosed with heart problems back in late February my doctors and I decided it was best for me to stop taking T because of the fast beating heart, atrial fibrillation. The doctors do not think the Mitral Valve malfunction is related to my use of T. However, they cannot rule out the atrial fibrillation as a result of increased T in my body for the past few years.

Starting T was the last phase of my physical transition. (I clarify physical because it is my belief that as far as my insides go, my personality, values, character has not been altered. I could give a more insightful explanation but that is an entirely different and important conversation, IMO.)

Back to the physical side of things, I did research transitioning for about three years before moving forward. I knew some of the dangers could be increased blood pressure, cholesterol goes up and/or liver damage.

It is unsure at this point if I will ever go back on T but in my mind, my physical health is the priority. I still get called "Ma'am" often. When I get referred to as ma'am, I question myself why I twinge. Is it internalized misogyny or is the twinge knowing the truth about myself?

I wish you all the best in resuming taking T. Remember, you are still who you are with or without the T. Also, I think guys like you out in the more conservative areas are heros when you are not in the closet about your gender and/or sexuality.

[RNguy]

Blake, I think you know recently I had heart surgery. My Mitral Valve needed repair. Also, my heart was in rapid atrial fibrillation. During the surgery the valve was repaired and a procedure called a "maze" was performed on me for the atrial fibrillation.

When I was diagnosed with heart problems back in late February my doctors and I decided it was best for me to stop taking T because of the fast beating heart, atrial fibrillation. The doctors do not think the Mitral Valve malfunction is related to my use of T. However, they cannot rule out the atrial fibrillation as a result of increased T in my body for the past few years.

Starting T was the last phase of my physical transition. (I clarify physical because it is my belief that as far as my insides go, my personality, values, character has not been altered. I could give a more insightful explanation but that is an entirely different and important conversation, IMO.)

Back to the physical side of things, I did research transitioning for about three years before moving forward. I knew some of the dangers could be increased blood pressure, cholesterol goes up and/or liver damage.

It is unsure at this point if I will ever go back on T but in my mind, my physical health is the priority. I still get called "Ma'am" often. When I get referred to as ma'am, I question myself why I twinge. Is it internalized misogyny or is the twinge knowing the truth about myself?

I wish you all the best in resuming taking T. Remember, you are still who you are with or without the T. Also, I think guys like you out in the more conservative areas are heros when you are not in the closet about your gender and/or sexuality.


:) I appreciate your compliment and open words , feelings always brother .
I totally get the twinge feeling you get . I believe a lot of trans guys experience the twinge quite often .
You know , I posted once on another site about how in junior high , I was forced to see a psychologist who in turn gave me the diagnosis as having GID. My mother was the director over of a behavioral health/chemical dependancy unit at a hospital during this time .
In my 20's , I paid a visit to the same psychologist and expressed alot harbored anger towards his false diagnosis . I never denied nor was ever delusional of my biological gender .
However, was positive I was born in the wrong body for whatever reason .
Many years I have studied in depth of the bodies neuro as well as endocrine systems and in my opinion alone I am a believer that we as trans stems from abnormal hormone imbalances as well as neuro chemical imbalances which occur in utero and is unreversable

That was off topic I know and you are so right that taking T , preop, post op, opting to never take any chemical , hormonal or surgical routes doesn't make anyone less trans or less who they feel internally or externally so I agree with you a lot.
I've spoken to several ftm post op top , bottom and full time T users and I asked one specifically who did intact have liver failure as well as multiple heart issues secondary to the T why he chose to continue the path verses stopping hormone therapy and have his health improve and gain a longer lifespan. His answer was that he'd rather live a year happy as he is on this contined transition than to live 50 years unhappy having decreased testosterone.
That's very admirable to me . It may not be what I would choose but there is no right or wrong choice as long as you are firm and happy with the decision you choose .
Im so happy you are on the healing mend brother !!!!
Its hard to tell why you went into fib so I see why they said they couldn't rule out the T as a cause .

[RNguy]

Blake, I think you know recently I had heart surgery. My Mitral Valve needed repair. Also, my heart was in rapid atrial fibrillation. During the surgery the valve was repaired and a procedure called a "maze" was performed on me for the atrial fibrillation.

When I was diagnosed with heart problems back in late February my doctors and I decided it was best for me to stop taking T because of the fast beating heart, atrial fibrillation. The doctors do not think the Mitral Valve malfunction is related to my use of T. However, they cannot rule out the atrial fibrillation as a result of increased T in my body for the past few years.

Starting T was the last phase of my physical transition. (I clarify physical because it is my belief that as far as my insides go, my personality, values, character has not been altered. I could give a more insightful explanation but that is an entirely different and important conversation, IMO.)

Back to the physical side of things, I did research transitioning for about three years before moving forward. I knew some of the dangers could be increased blood pressure, cholesterol goes up and/or liver damage.

It is unsure at this point if I will ever go back on T but in my mind, my physical health is the priority. I still get called "Ma'am" often. When I get referred to as ma'am, I question myself why I twinge. Is it internalized misogyny or is the twinge knowing the truth about myself?

I wish you all the best in resuming taking T. Remember, you are still who you are with or without the T. Also, I think guys like you out in the more conservative areas are heros when you are not in the closet about your gender and/or sexuality.

Oh yeah , as for the area in which I was born and raised I just always hold my head high and stay true to who I am . Folks are very uneducated of sex and gender issues so they fall back with what they know about it which is the old southern baptist upbringing and the Lord says .......
As sad as the poverty is as well as the lack of education in certain parts , I'm just as proud of who I am as well as being an Appalachian .
I feel that the Appalachian generation today as well the future kids will be ending this lack of understanding and compassion and unacceptance to the gay community as a whole :)

[DapperButch]

Many years I have studied in depth of the bodies neuro as well as endocrine systems and in my opinion alone I am a believer that we as trans stems from abnormal hormone imbalances as well as neuro chemical imbalances which occur in utero and is unreversable



Blake -

You may enjoy reading this article I posted on another thread. It is rather dense reading, but gives good information on both brain imaging studies and brain splicing studies.

http://openmindedhealth.com/2012/01/results-of-transsexual-brain-studies/

[LoyalWolfsBlade]

I am so sick of being labeled. I would have thought that by 2013 the medical field would have gotten away from using labels disguised as a diagnosis long ago However, I found out very recently that this fantasy of mine has not happened yet so I now have another label stuck on me. I now am, according to the ones with degrees, someone with gender identity disorder GID. Last time I looked I have no problem with the body I was born into except that it does not match the body in my head or the one I believe I should have been born into. Can you tell I don't appreciate having the label GID especially when there are so many I could have received. I also have no problem being trans and if I have to live my life in this body it will not kill me. It also will not make me happy or to feel complete. When will our society get away from labels and trying to put people into a box.

[RNguy]

Blake -

You may enjoy reading this article I posted on another thread. It is rather dense reading, but gives good information on both brain imaging studies and brain splicing studies.

http://openmindedhealth.com/2012/01/results-of-transsexual-brain-studies/

Thank you dapper , I'm always reading info and I started to read this just now and our pager went off on our unit to get an admission so ill read this when I get off work in the morning for sure and get back to you on what I think about the article .
:)

[Kent]

She'll prescribe it but doesn't know enough to monitor it from a transgender perspective. I had a condition that progressed rapidly due to T use and it wasn't caught. I ended up having surgery to fix the issue, and the damage to several of my internal organs. I'm fine now and will have no more problems when on T again, but my Dr thinks it would be better for me if I go to a clinic that knows more about transgender patients. She's still willing to write the script for me, but I guess I want to play it safe as well.

Would you mind discussing what the condition was and/or the effects of T on the condition? If you choose to discuss the condition, would you tell us about the damage to the internal organs too? I'm just curious as to what it was all about as we do not get a lot of information shared between us when there is a problem with taking T. If you'd be willing to put it out there, I'm sure other trans guys will appreciate it as well as myself. If you don't feel comfortable speaking about it, then I can understand and respect your choice. Thank you for sharing what you have already posted, Graff.

[GraffitiBoi]

Would you mind discussing what the condition was and/or the effects of T on the condition? If you choose to discuss the condition, would you tell us about the damage to the internal organs too? I'm just curious as to what it was all about as we do not get a lot of information shared between us when there is a problem with taking T. If you'd be willing to put it out there, I'm sure other trans guys will appreciate it as well as myself. If you don't feel comfortable speaking about it, then I can understand and respect your choice. Thank you for sharing what you have already posted, Graff.

I'd be glad to share. I'm pretty open about myself and am always willing to share and educate if and when I can. I extend an open invite to ANYONE who wants to know more, or has questions. Feel free to ask me anything here or via PM if you aren't comfortable posting publicly.

From what my Dr. could tell, I developed endometriosis at the age of 14. It was mild and wasn't caught until the surgery. I had problems with it before I started T but it had never been detected, even after having a scope done in 1997. It didn't even show up in any ultrasounds or other tests I had up to, and including, the week before I had surgery.

When the Dr. went in to do the hysto she found that the scar tissue from the endometriosis had attached to several of my internal organs and fused them all together. (I have the pictures somewhere - gross) The only reason it progressed so far and to such a serious state was mostly my fault. The T sped up the process and since I waited 7 years to have the hysto... yeah...

I guess it was so bad that my Dr. stopped the surgery, called in a specialist and contacted all my emergency contacts. They did not know if I would make it though the repairs needed. Each organ had to be separated from each other and placed back into its correct position. My uterus and one ovary was removed. The other one was left because the possibility of being able to ever be on T again was not known. Due to the amount of damage and stress to my body they had trouble getting me to breathe on my own when I was in recovery.

To this day I still get some pain, but it is unclear if it is phantom pain (all in my head) or if it is due to some residual scarring. The Drs got as much of the scar tissue out as they could but there is always the risk some was missed. My remaining ovary is now giving me some problems and may have to come out at some point, but that is unclear at this time. I will be going to the U of MN gender clinic in the next few months to have it checked out and to resume taking T.

My advice to other trans guys: Get your shit checked out often and do what your Dr says!!! Don't be like me and ignore or put off the important stuff. LOL

[Kent]

Graff,

Thank you for sharing your story. You're here for a reason. Thank you.

[DapperButch]

Thank you dapper , I'm always reading info and I started to read this just now and our pager went off on our unit to get an admission so ill read this when I get off work in the morning for sure and get back to you on what I think about the article .
:)

Great, would love to have a discussion about it. Perhaps I should start a thread on for discussion on trans research. I am not sure that we have enough trans people here who would be interested in such a discussion, though. I guess the worst that can happen is that the thread will just die!

[DapperButch]

I am so sick of being labeled. I would have thought that by 2013 the medical field would have gotten away from using labels disguised as a diagnosis long ago However, I found out very recently that this fantasy of mine has not happened yet so I now have another label stuck on me. I now am, according to the ones with degrees, someone with gender identity disorder GID. Last time I looked I have no problem with the body I was born into except that it does not match the body in my head or the one I believe I should have been born into. Can you tell I don't appreciate having the label GID especially when there are so many I could have received. I also have no problem being trans and if I have to live my life in this body it will not kill me. It also will not make me happy or to feel complete. When will our society get away from labels and trying to put people into a box.

Hey, KnightsBlade, I work in the field of mental health, so if you would like a additional info. on why you might have been given this diagnosis, I would be happy to talk with you about it.

As an aside, the mental health community does not see gender dysphoria (or GID) as a mental illness, it is just kept in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manuel so that people can get insurance to pay for counseling or medical services (hormone, sugery). The new DSM (that just came out, DSM V), actually changed the diagnosis to Gender Dysphoria, because it is not seen as a disorder. It just means that people feel distress due to the body they are born in. It does not mean that people who are trans have a mental illness.

Anyway, I never "diagnose" anyone with GID (meaning, send that diagnose to their insurance company), unless they request it so that they can get medical services (it is needed in order for insurance company to pay for top surgeries and also for surgeons who follow the Standards of Care to actually agree to do the surgery).

Ok, so this is long winded, but I hope the above makes you feel better. Of course, not knowing more info. I can't tell you if the doc was trying to help or was being a dick. Either way, I think they should have talked with you about it, if they actually put that on an insurance form.

[Cailin]

To this day I'm always annoyed at people who care about my sexual orientation. I have sat and thought and tried to figured out why people care so much, and i've come up with the only logical conclusion: they think about me having sex. Somehow in their mind they have to know that i'm having sex with a bio male, and I wonder "now, who's the messed up one?".

[Nic]

Feel a little odd posting about my life in a room full of strangers so to speak. But I've been reading a bit about the things you all share and I don't think it's strangers so much as people I just haven't met yet.

I transitioned when I was in my mid 20's, before acceptance had come as far as it has which is farther than I could ever imagined. My wife of 21 years died just over 4 years ago and I haven't dated more than half a dozen times since then. It's a little awkward for me right now because I've met a femme who's held my interest for several months. We met at Pride last May and I thought she had some idea that I fell on the queer spectrum somewhere but recently a friend asked me what evidence I had of that and I'm no face to face with the fact that she might not read me as trans because I've been lucky enough to always present and pass as biomale. My wife knew me before and during my transition so no explaining necessary. I've never had to explain to a woman I wanted to date that I'm trans. I don't even know how to begin the conversation. It seems stupid at my age to wonder how to start a conversation about anything. Here I am though and I need to discuss it with her soon. She's still on the mend from a hard breakup about a year or more ago and it took some patience and some conversation before she'd agreed to go out with me. We've had 3 dates so far and I made sure they were all low-key and completely casual so that she wouldn't feel things were moving too fast. She's an amazing woman and I want to do something more special when we see one another next but I don't think I can go any farther until I clear up this one issue. I'm going to tell her of course but what's the opening line? "Hey, did you know I'm trans" sounds a little blunt. Anyone got 2 cents to chip in?

[Corkey]

Feel a little odd posting about my life in a room full of strangers so to speak. But I've been reading a bit about the things you all share and I don't think it's strangers so much as people I just haven't met yet.

I transitioned when I was in my mid 20's, before acceptance had come as far as it has which is farther than I could ever imagined. My wife of 21 years died just over 4 years ago and I haven't dated more than half a dozen times since then. It's a little awkward for me right now because I've met a femme who's held my interest for several months. We met at Pride last May and I thought she had some idea that I fell on the queer spectrum somewhere but recently a friend asked me what evidence I had of that and I'm no face to face with the fact that she might not read me as trans because I've been lucky enough to always present and pass as biomale. My wife knew me before and during my transition so no explaining necessary. I've never had to explain to a woman I wanted to date that I'm trans. I don't even know how to begin the conversation. It seems stupid at my age to wonder how to start a conversation about anything. Here I am though and I need to discuss it with her soon. She's still on the mend from a hard breakup about a year or more ago and it took some patience and some conversation before she'd agreed to go out with me. We've had 3 dates so far and I made sure they were all low-key and completely casual so that she wouldn't feel things were moving too fast. She's an amazing woman and I want to do something more special when we see one another next but I don't think I can go any farther until I clear up this one issue. I'm going to tell her of course but what's the opening line? "Hey, did you know I'm trans" sounds a little blunt. Anyone got 2 cents to chip in?


I don't have an answer for you. Be honest about yourself and your feelings and hope for the best. When the inevitable conversation happens, just be yourself.

[Trev]

Feel a little odd posting about my life in a room full of strangers so to speak. But I've been reading a bit about the things you all share and I don't think it's strangers so much as people I just haven't met yet.

I transitioned when I was in my mid 20's, before acceptance had come as far as it has which is farther than I could ever imagined. My wife of 21 years died just over 4 years ago and I haven't dated more than half a dozen times since then. It's a little awkward for me right now because I've met a femme who's held my interest for several months. We met at Pride last May and I thought she had some idea that I fell on the queer spectrum somewhere but recently a friend asked me what evidence I had of that and I'm no face to face with the fact that she might not read me as trans because I've been lucky enough to always present and pass as biomale. My wife knew me before and during my transition so no explaining necessary. I've never had to explain to a woman I wanted to date that I'm trans. I don't even know how to begin the conversation. It seems stupid at my age to wonder how to start a conversation about anything. Here I am though and I need to discuss it with her soon. She's still on the mend from a hard breakup about a year or more ago and it took some patience and some conversation before she'd agreed to go out with me. We've had 3 dates so far and I made sure they were all low-key and completely casual so that she wouldn't feel things were moving too fast. She's an amazing woman and I want to do something more special when we see one another next but I don't think I can go any farther until I clear up this one issue. I'm going to tell her of course but what's the opening line? "Hey, did you know I'm trans" sounds a little blunt. Anyone got 2 cents to chip in?

Try to put yourself in her spot when you feel like it's time to have that conversation with her. Ask yourself what you would want to hear. You obviously want to continue seeing this lady, you will find the answers within yourself. You've described her as an amazing woman. I think that will help you find some of your answers. Good luck, Nic. Like Corkey said, be yourself.

[Bad_boi]

Why the hell can't we have a safe and efficient T delivery system that isn't a shot.

[alexri]

Hey all... well, it's not much, but I tried to make my life a little more "one."

I had a separate Facebook account for my trans* self (for all my contacts/support groups/pages I was following) from my regular "real" person account. I had done this while I was exploring/examining myself, trying to figure out what I wanted to do now that I had this realization about myself. I finally merged the accounts together into one, moving my trans* community over to the main Facebook account.

Unfortunately in the process I lost a lot of people. Facebook thought I was a scammer trying to friend all these people at once.

I know it's not that huge of a deal; it's just having it all out in the open now, just trying to live/be as one, as a true self.

[SirLucian]

I'd be glad to share. I'm pretty open about myself and am always willing to share and educate if and when I can. I extend an open invite to ANYONE who wants to know more, or has questions. Feel free to ask me anything here or via PM if you aren't comfortable posting publicly.

From what my Dr. could tell, I developed endometriosis at the age of 14. It was mild and wasn't caught until the surgery. I had problems with it before I started T but it had never been detected, even after having a scope done in 1997. It didn't even show up in any ultrasounds or other tests I had up to, and including, the week before I had surgery.

When the Dr. went in to do the hysto she found that the scar tissue from the endometriosis had attached to several of my internal organs and fused them all together. (I have the pictures somewhere - gross) The only reason it progressed so far and to such a serious state was mostly my fault. The T sped up the process and since I waited 7 years to have the hysto... yeah...

I guess it was so bad that my Dr. stopped the surgery, called in a specialist and contacted all my emergency contacts. They did not know if I would make it though the repairs needed. Each organ had to be separated from each other and placed back into its correct position. My uterus and one ovary was removed. The other one was left because the possibility of being able to ever be on T again was not known. Due to the amount of damage and stress to my body they had trouble getting me to breathe on my own when I was in recovery.

To this day I still get some pain, but it is unclear if it is phantom pain (all in my head) or if it is due to some residual scarring. The Drs got as much of the scar tissue out as they could but there is always the risk some was missed. My remaining ovary is now giving me some problems and may have to come out at some point, but that is unclear at this time. I will be going to the U of MN gender clinic in the next few months to have it checked out and to resume taking T.

My advice to other trans guys: Get your shit checked out often and do what your Dr says!!! Don't be like me and ignore or put off the important stuff. LOL

Thanks for this story
I recently had most of the same issues
Mine started as cancer when I was 23 they did not get it all as stated in the paperwork and last year it came back with a vengeance but all is ok now

[GraffitiBoi]

To this day I still get some pain, but it is unclear if it is phantom pain (all in my head) or if it is due to some residual scarring. The Drs got as much of the scar tissue out as they could but there is always the risk some was missed. My remaining ovary is now giving me some problems and may have to come out at some point, but that is unclear at this time.

Turns out the specialist they called in took out the good ovary and left the bad one... so now they want to take this one out too.

[Linus]

Why the hell can't we have a safe and efficient T delivery system that isn't a shot.

Hear! Hear! I self-administer my shots because of my travel schedule. And my fear of shots is the same or worse when I first started. That said, I know there are some new delivery methods for T being researched. One that I remember from a few years ago was the pellet method (subdermal/under skin). While this provided a long term (a year or two worth) from a simple day surgery procedure the cost and the fact that it wasn't covered by health care has probably prevented its commonplace usage.

[Bad_boi]

Random boners are now a thing. Fun but annoying.

[Nic]

Been a while since I've been online. Thanks to everyone who sent opinions and advice.

Update:
The femme I've been interested in is still on the horizon. She's started to be pretty important to me over the last 4 weeks and given me 100 more reasons to think well of her. Been trying to give her a few reasons to think well of me also. (Fingers crossed for success)

She likes Indian food so I took her to a place I like. We had a great time. Went for coffee afterward and sat downtown to people watch. Took her home and realized I hadn't said anything because we'd been having such a good time. So I told her before I got out of the car to walk her to her door. I'm thinking, "Ridiculous to have this discussion in the car" but she's easy to talk to so I just went for it. Turns out she knew I was Trans without me telling her. Put it together based on some pretty subtle clues. She says she didn't say anything because she thought the story was mine to tell if I wanted to and not hers to pursue without invitation. The conversation that followed was pretty amazing. I haven't connected with someone like this since my wife died.

[Maverick]

I think my 16 year relationship is ending soon because I am a transman. She just can't deal with it. I've been very hopeful that we could work it out and come to some compromise point or figure out a way for us to both be happy but I now believe that all hope is lost. Feeling very sad today. :'-(((

Maverick

[DMW]

Sorry Maverick. That is rough.

I will share a bit.
In regards to a past relationship that i had.
(a woman that has never been to the bf sites.)
What helped me...
I had to acknowledge, accept and appreciate that, like me, she had her evolution, as well. (I do believe that all relationships and people do.)
I was part of that process. And honestly, I am glad that she went on to be with a biomale. It is what was right for her. And also, kept her from going to another butch or transman.

She loved me and both our hearts broke.

It is not easy to partner with a transmen.

I wish the best for both of you.

[Maverick]

Sorry Maverick. That is rough.

I will share a bit.
In regards to a past relationship that i had.
(a woman that has never been to the bf sites.)
What helped me...
I had to acknowledge, accept and appreciate that, like me, she had her evolution, as well. (I do believe that all relationships and people do.)
I was part of that process. And honestly, I am glad that she went on to be with a biomale. It is what was right for her. And also, kept her from going to another butch or transman.

She loved me and both our hearts broke.

It is not easy to partner with a transmen.

I wish the best for both of you.


Thank you DMW. I really did find your words comforting. And I agree with you that we all, even our relationships, have our own evolution. My partner does love me. I know this. I suppose this is the reason this is so hard because we both still love each other very much. Our hearts are breaking as you said. I guess I always thought that if there was love than there was hope. I am seeing now that this is not necessarily true.

Thanks again.

[Nic]

Trying to distract myself tonight. Feeling on edge. Read pretty much every thread I could click on to get my mind off my day. Not angry. Just restless. Tomorrow's on my mind.

Today I get a text from the woman I'm seriously interested in that says "I planning on telling him, I'm just not ready! I need a few more days to decide what I'm going to say. Leave it will you?!" First thing I think is, "Damn am I about to hear "We need to talk"? Second thing I think is "This text wasn't for me."

She has another friend named Nick that she hangs out with pretty often so I think maybe it's for him. I've met him. Nice guy, funny, smart, good looking, but she never indicated an interest in bio-males and I didn't get the vibe they had more than friendship going on. I haven't dated any one person seriously since my 20's so maybe I'm dense but I'm 99.9% sure that she's not hooking up. Still couldn't help running worst case scenarios in my head. The only thing that stuck was there's someone else and he's pressuring her to break up with me sooner rather than later. Even if it's not that, she's getting advice from someone else regarding something that sounds like it's about us. If she needs a friend as a sounding board that's all good but since the story's out I figure I should be part of the conversation now. I think eventually she's going to notice she sent the text to the wrong person so I quit spinning, do a fast search for my huevos, and shoot a message back saying "Don't think this was meant for me. Do we need to make time to talk about something?" I get nothing in the next 10 minutes and then I'm swamped so I leave it alone. About an hour later she replies with, "I'm very sorry. That was meant for Nick. Yes, we do need to talk."

After some more back and forth all I know is that she honestly doesn't know if I'll think what she has to talk to me about is good or bad, it's just important that she tells me. She's been babysitting since noon for friends so they could go to Boston for their anniversary and won't be home until late tomorrow morning. Neither of us wants to have the conversation via text or phone so I told her we could table the discussion as long as the rest of it happened in 24 hours or less. Instead of dinner out tomorrow as planned, she's coming to my place to BBQ and talk. Didn't ask if she's breaking up with me. I want that face to face if it's coming.

Tried to relax tonight but I can't focus on my book. Still sorting worst case scenarios in my head. Reading threads tonight made me wonder if she's reluctant to get serious because I'm trans. I know she was in love with a transman at some point so I want to say no. Occurred to me about an hour ago that maybe she was still married to someone. She won't discuss in depth details of past relationships. She just says things like her long term relationships were all with good people. I know she's been married before and once she said that her most significant relationship ended because she didn't do what she should have. None of that bothers me. Past is past. I don't talk about Aubrey much but for different reasons. But if she's married, obviously there's a problem.

Something she said a while back that makes me wonder if she's afraid of commitment. Months ago when I told her I wanted us to date more seriously she told me 1) she wasn't ready to be serious with anyone and 2) if she ever wanted to change her mind it wouldn't happen unless she knew without a doubt she wasn't going to be #2 or 3 or 4 on someone's priority list ever again. At the time she knew I was going on occasional dates with other friends but that it wasn't serious with anyone. The night she said this she wasn't majorly upset but it was obviously an emotional issue for her. I asked some questions but she wouldn't go into more detail which translated into "past relationship issue" in my book. Didn't pressure her but I walked away 100% clear that continuing to date other women was a deal breaker if I wanted to move ahead with her. Made sure I was completely single by the next day and made sure she knew it. Told her to her face that I wouldn't be dating another woman as long as I was seeing her. Made her cry but we never talked about it again and I just went on trying to be someone she could trust and look up to. Now she's afraid to talk to me and I don't know why. First time I've worried that I could lose out on something good because of something I don't know. Going in circles. Really need to stop. Just keep re-reading that text and trying to see something less ominous in it.

We've fallen into mutual silence. Maybe we both needed time for reflection. Talked it over with my own sounding board who asked if I was angry. I'm not. Not even a little. She's never avoided hard conversations before. She's been open about everything from opinions about world events and her ignorance about politics to her own faults, mistakes and regrets and things she's done that she's ashamed of so if she's keeping something from me it makes me think she's afraid. Fear does a number on logic every time. I want to make a permanent place in my life for this girl if she'll have me. Haven't faced any big issues together but if we've arrived at the first one I'm ready to show up every day until it's over. Guess I'm worried for myself but more worried about her. No matter what happens, I hate the idea of her going to bed afraid. I'm going to break the silence and make my usual good night call. I want to tell her that all she has to do is make it to tomorrow.

[DapperButch]

Hey, Nic. I have no words of wisdom, just wanted to acknowlege the struggle you are in right now. I hope that tomorrow goes well for you. Take care.

[Nic]

Update:
1) There's a femme in my house while I'm at work! It was almost 4:30 by the time "the talk" (which was VERY GOOD) was over so I put my favorite quilt on the guest bed and had her do her dreaming at my place rather than go the 8 miles to hers after such an intense evening.
2) I'm the happiest man in the world!

[DapperButch]

Update:
1) There's a femme in my house while I'm at work! It was almost 4:30 by the time "the talk" (which was VERY GOOD) was over so I put my favorite quilt on the guest bed and had her do her dreaming at my place rather than go the 8 miles to hers after such an intense evening.
2) I'm the happiest man in the world!

Hey, this is great! I was hoping you would come back and post!

[Nic]

WTF is wrong with abusers? Seriously.

[Liam]

This evening I noticed that several of my friends on Facebook, had made comments in response to a blog written by a butch. As I skimmed over the post, I thought, "oh, so and so, has a new name, but is still spewing the same old transphobic hate talk." She felt sad that guys like me, (she called us sisters,) had become convinced by the patriarchy, that we couldn't be women, and dress as we wanted to. I wanted to tell her, "sister, I dressed like this when I was a big bull dyke, the patriarchy didn't convince me of anything about the clothes I choose to wear." The sad truth about her rant, was that it was just as misogynistic as the patriarchy. She was mourning the "loss" of another butch, who chose to transition, but what did she lose? I didn't stop being a feminist when I transitioned. I didn't walk away from my lesbian friends. My friends don't speak about my choice to do with my body, what I have done, in such a hateful manner. If she were one of my friends though, I would walk away, and not look back. She would lose me, for sure.

[Corkey]

This evening I noticed that several of my friends on Facebook, had made comments in response to a blog written by a butch. As I skimmed over the post, I thought, "oh, so and so, has a new name, but is still spewing the same old transphobic hate talk." She felt sad that guys like me, (she called us sisters,) had become convinced by the patriarchy, that we couldn't be women, and dress as we wanted to. I wanted to tell her, "sister, I dressed like this when I was a big bull dyke, the patriarchy didn't convince me of anything about the clothes I choose to wear." The sad truth about her rant, was that it was just as misogynistic as the patriarchy. She was mourning the "loss" of another butch, who chose to transition, but what did she lose? I didn't stop being a feminist when I transitioned. I didn't walk away from my lesbian friends. My friends don't speak about my choice to do with my body, what I have done, in such a hateful manner. If she were one of my friends though, I would walk away, and not look back. She would lose me, for sure.

I saw that and thought to myself just who made her pontiff over other peoples identities? She's entitled to her opinion of course, but not the judgement.

[Nic]

This evening I noticed that several of my friends on Facebook, had made comments in response to a blog written by a butch. As I skimmed over the post, I thought, "oh, so and so, has a new name, but is still spewing the same old transphobic hate talk." She felt sad that guys like me, (she called us sisters,) had become convinced by the patriarchy, that we couldn't be women, and dress as we wanted to. I wanted to tell her, "sister, I dressed like this when I was a big bull dyke, the patriarchy didn't convince me of anything about the clothes I choose to wear." The sad truth about her rant, was that it was just as misogynistic as the patriarchy. She was mourning the "loss" of another butch, who chose to transition, but what did she lose? I didn't stop being a feminist when I transitioned. I didn't walk away from my lesbian friends. My friends don't speak about my choice to do with my body, what I have done, in such a hateful manner. If she were one of my friends though, I would walk away, and not look back. She would lose me, for sure.


Sorry about your disappointing experience Weird that she chooses to oppose behavior that dictates identity rules to women and then employs the same patriarchal tactics she decries to dictate identity rules to trans folk. Sounds like a very confused person.

[Sheridan]

Has anyone had this experience?

I have to share Days of Sheridan’s Haircut, it’s like Days of Our Lives but with more drama (and homophobia and/or transphobia). But it is kinda of humorous because I think they wanted me to drop my pants to check and find out which they needed to go for.

I had a fun time getting my hair cut today (which pissed me off ). A haircut with a side order of homophobia and/or transphobia (I am not even sure which way the woman was going, because this woman was bat shit nuts and so was her friend, but her haircut turned out ok after the drama).

I was starting to look like a sheep dog (or Josh Groban on crack) ;) and decided: Hey it’s time to make a donation to the hair fairies. I went into a place I had gone before because the gal that cut my hair before was really funny and talked about all kinds of stuff and about her family and gave a good haircut without any drama. Well, I went in (and of course she was not there). But I thought, hey anyone can do the whacking (yes my hair needs deep discipline and probably a deep conditioner). :P

So the gal that was there was going to take me back right away but I told her I wanted to look at styles of haircuts and I had just picked up the guy’s haircut book to look at (which I do every place I go). She stated that that book would do me no good (will I had used this book once before and the cut I picked was awesome). I said I wanted a style from that book (so she stood and waited, eyeing me up and down, not in a flirtatious way and glancing at my crotch). I almost walked out but finding a place open and not a full on women’s salon or without an appointment in my area at almost 5pm was going to be a pain in the ass and I still had to shop (which I hate).

So I picked my style and swaggered back to the whacking chair. So the drama began. She told me the style I picked was too long (it really was pretty short) and that I needed to get a buzz cut. I told her I did not want a buzz cut. She told me I needed a buzz cut because it would look better on me. I said I wanted the style I picked. She said if you want to look more male you should get a buzz cut. I said the haircut I wanted was perfect for my face and my curly hair. I was thinking to myself “I don’t want to look like a white supremacist, but thanks for the advice lady”. But I closed my mouth. So she kept hounding me about it and I knew that she was not going to allow me to get my pick. So I looked through the book again and found one that was almost the same but just a little shorter (it had better bangs, so I got a better cut anyway). I said this is the one I want. So finally I got my cut with her bitching all the way that it was too girlie for me (I never pick girlie cuts) but a buzz cut was out of the question (I hate them). I sat in the chair meditating, wanting to leap and run, while she bitched and giggled with other woman that worked there about me and my hair.

I am not sure if she thought I was a bull dyke (which I get a lot) or a transgendered man or she thought I was a possible transgendered woman or gay man that needed to man up to fit his genitals, whatever it was it pissed me off. I am never going back there again. WTF????? The area I live in has a nice size community of LGBTQ people and this behavior just pisses me off and it just continues on and on. And as I was leaving she was still looking at my crotch (I wanted to moon her, but that would be socially unacceptable).

So how was your day?

[LoyalWolfsBlade]

I was going to post this in the listening to each other thread ( excuse the wrong name please) then decided that it really belongs here or at least I hope so.

I have been on T for three or four months now. Not nearly long enough but thanks to already having my histro 16 years ago I have had some amazing and faster than usual results in some areas. I recently was hospitalized for phenomena (sp) and all kinds of tests were ran due to how bad it was. Anyways to make a long story short they found two large masses on each of my adrino glands during the testing. Right now I wish they had found anything else but that. I was told today that there is a large chance that I will have to stop taking my T due to this.

It is not official yet and I have another appointment with another Dr next Thursday about it nit I feel like my whole world has evaporated. I have been fighting the system and society for 40 years to look like the man I know I am and I am only 46 years old. I moved across the country and let go of everyone I knew in order to officially start my transition in January of this year.

I waited 5 months to see a doctor to start the T only to find out a month before the appointment that she was retiring and then another two months to get a doctor that was willing to treat me after having one that said he was until I asked so when do we start talking about hormone replacement therapy. Then all of a sudden I was speaking a foreign language it appears that he is willing to treat transgender individuals as long as hormones aren't involved. WTF especially since I mentioned hormones in the first appointment.

Anyways eventually I got a doctor willing to treat me and I some how figured pit how to afford to pay for the T out of my own pocket. I tell you I was one happy man. Even with the discomfort involved with the first couple of months I was a happy man. However I was not a stupid man I kept the words from the guys here like Greyson (sp) and others that told me to be cautious and there may be higher risks because of my age. I also kept the words of encouragement from so many of you throughout my journey when I was posting in the Bravehearts thread. Today though I felt so alone and so defeated.
I keep telling myself that the other specialist may not have the same opinion about having to stop my T. I even tell myself at least they didn't find cancer in my lungs to be honest guys there are seconds today that I wish they had.
Ok stepping off my venting everything and making no sense box now.

[DapperButch]

I was going to post this in the listening to each other thread ( excuse the wrong name please) then decided that it really belongs here or at least I hope so.

I have been on T for three or four months now. Not nearly long enough but thanks to already having my histro 16 years ago I have had some amazing and faster than usual results in some areas. I recently was hospitalized for phenomena (sp) and all kinds of tests were ran due to how bad it was. Anyways to make a long story short they found two large masses on each of my adrino glands during the testing. Right now I wish they had found anything else but that. I was told today that there is a large chance that I will have to stop taking my T due to this.

It is not official yet and I have another appointment with another Dr next Thursday about it nit I feel like my whole world has evaporated. I have been fighting the system and society for 40 years to look like the man I know I am and I am only 46 years old. I moved across the country and let go of everyone I knew in order to officially start my transition in January of this year.

I waited 5 months to see a doctor to start the T only to find out a month before the appointment that she was retiring and then another two months to get a doctor that was willing to treat me after having one that said he was until I asked so when do we start talking about hormone replacement therapy. Then all of a sudden I was speaking a foreign language it appears that he is willing to treat transgender individuals as long as hormones aren't involved. WTF especially since I mentioned hormones in the first appointment.

Anyways eventually I got a doctor willing to treat me and I some how figured pit how to afford to pay for the T out of my own pocket. I tell you I was one happy man. Even with the discomfort involved with the first couple of months I was a happy man. However I was not a stupid man I kept the words from the guys here like Greyson (sp) and others that told me to be cautious and there may be higher risks because of my age. I also kept the words of encouragement from so many of you throughout my journey when I was posting in the Bravehearts thread. Today though I felt so alone and so defeated.
I keep telling myself that the other specialist may not have the same opinion about having to stop my T. I even tell myself at least they didn't find cancer in my lungs to be honest guys there are seconds today that I wish they had.
Ok stepping off my venting everything and making no sense box now.

Hang in there, guy. I hope it all works out and you don't have to get off of T since it has made such a positive difference in your life.

[Greyson]

I was told today that there is a large chance that I will have to stop taking my T due to this.

However I was not a stupid man I kept the words from the guys here like Greyson (sp) and others that told me to be cautious and there may be higher risks because of my age. I also kept the words of encouragement from so many of you throughout my journey when I was posting in the Bravehearts thread. Today though I felt so alone and so defeated.


KnightsBlade, nothing can change who you believe yourself to be. With or without the T, you are still you. I think I can empathize with you but each person's idea of their identity is not a cookie cutter matter. I hope things work out for you. Try to love and accept yourself no matter what.

Respectfully,
Greyson

[Jet]

I live as a straight man among straights. This is the only [FTM] site I am on.

This is a space for FTM's to talk about anything they would like to. Especially, FTM's that live as males, in their everyday lives, and are not seen by societyas anything other than a biomale.Please go along with the websites guidelines of decorum and respect for others. The TOS or what have you.
At the moment, i have a killer migraine and will not be posting for a bit.

However,
Feel free to vent.
Welcome Dudes...

I do understand that we live in a closet somewhat. I suppose i don't want to have to live in the closet here. I am not always...In The Closet and i don't want to be in a closet here.