"End Game" for butches : )

[dykeumentary]

I made this video today.
I thought it might be funny, and spark a conversation about the particular issues that come up when Butches suddenly have health problems.

http://youtu.be/4G923L6aPyk

When A Butch Dyke Dies (a series of questions) - YouTube

[Sweet Bliss]

:confused:

I hardly find it funny. This raises issues that we may face at any time in our lives.

Can't find my calm voice right yet. Will come back when I can be more composed.

Your YouTube presented this as happening to you. If so, I will send healing energy to you, with your permission of course.

Namaste

:bunchflowers:

[Nat]

I think these are reasonable things to wonder and worry about. I've been to a butch funeral where the butch was put in a dress and the femme who nursed her through 3 years of cancer wasn't acknowledged at all. I think death planning matters to some more than others, but I would feel more comfortable making and maintaining a plan with those you trust.

As far as the indignities of living under hospital care - I would think being butch would totally compound them. I do wish we had better advocates in hospitals.

I like the "don't die" plan best. But I also try to let my loved ones know my most adamant wishes regarding my own death. (Example: no preachers at my funeral!) Some of us get a heads up and many of us don't - there are things I want clear no matter when things come to an end.

And **hugs** if you'll have them.

[Gemme]

I see this is in the Butch Zone. Hope you mind our femme perspectives.

For me, I lean the same way Nat does.

1. Make a solid death plan (aka make it legal 'n shit)
2. Communicate said plan to all possible parties
3. Don't die

I think if you work on those things, it may help make the day to day indignities a bit easier to deal with.

Good luck and speedy healing!

[MsTinkerbelly]

How very brave of you, thank you for the reminder!

These things came up when my kasey was in the hospital, and they probably come up when other butches face sickness and death. I advocated for my honey but what about others like Nat said who have families that don't get it?

Hmmmm i need to help my butch prepare in case i'm not around....

Be well(f)

[Scots_On_The_Rocks]

I understand the intent you were trying to get at, and there were some poignant questions raised in your video. These are all things those of is outside societal and gender norms must face and think about. Not sure I am jiving with your presentation as that it presents those thoughts and struggles in a very diminished and dismissive way, but that is just my take.

So, back to the topic at hand...

As to me, as a male identified butch, I have covered my bases as best I can with a living will, advanced directives and having had many discussions with loved ones about my wishes. And while I am sure all my wishes will be honoured by those in my life, really there is no concrete proof or guarantee that my wishes will be honoured and carried out....but at that point it is really about my last moments being filled with dignity.

Anyhow, I hope that answered your general question.

[PoeticSilence]

I was recently in the hospital, I don't know if it was a life and death situation, but it definitely was a "we might have to remove your legs" situation and it was serious and painful and tiring. I'd been in the hospital a few years before after a heart attack so I was a little more in control of myself ... but still, it wasn't the same.

I identify as Butch, but I don't identify as male. I should make that clear up front because maybe it makes a difference. I might wear mens clothing and legally changed my name to Ronnie from Ronda, but if you call me Sir on accident I'm not going to flip out, it's just not necessary. I'm a human being and that's enough recognition for me as to who I am. I'm a human being.

My hospital/doctors/nurses recognized my marriage to my wife and included her during conversations and kept her phone number on the pain board in case they needed her.
I wore boxer-briefs during my stay and it wasn't an issue for anyone.
The nurses had trouble wrapping my legs and allowed me to call my wife and then watched her after she drove up there (outside of visiting hours) while she did the wraps and decided she was better at it so they left that part of my care to her.
They never held her to visiting hours and even would have allowed her to stay overnight if she wanted.

I live in Nebraska, which is a very Republican state, and they don't recognize gay marriages still, but you never would have known it with the staff that worked with me. Even my follow-up doctors and therapists worked with my wife. I really feel they considered my dignity and writing this right now, I'm a little ashamed to confess that I haven't even thanked them properly for it, because I know it wasn't the "norm". My wife and I went to a lot of trouble to do what we could to cover our asses legally regarding our marriage, and so far my experience has been that outside of government workers that still have some ... red tape issues ... we are treated like any other couple in nearly every situation we have encountered.

So there is hope. I think you just have to be the one to work a little harder, because others in the past have paved the way.

[Parker]

Watching the video and reading Nat's post actually made me open up a dialogue with a close, trusted friend of 10 years about being my medical power of attorney and beneficiary of my will and life insurance.

When I was in WA, it was a good friend of mine, but she is in poor health and 2100 miles away, so I set it up to be my sister. But she doesnt really know me, so would my wishes be respected or would something else be done/decided re: my medical, after death, etc decisions?

So after talking with my friend, I am changing over my medical POA (advanced directive) and insurance beneficiary and will executor information to her. She's a good strong femme woman who wont let my family bully her into doing things she knows I wouldnt want (and she'll get rid of my butch "stuff" if necessary :winky:)

Incidentally, I have a copy of my medical POA with my medical record at the VA, but I also keep a copy in a lock box at home as well as a copy in my truck should I get into an accident and end up at a non-VA hospital. I also carry an "ICE" form in my wallet with emergency contact info, info about my dogs so that if I am in a hospital someone knows to check on them, info about my medical POA and its location, etc.

Whether we're healthy or sick, these are all things we probably hate thinking about, but things we need to think about - especially as gay people - and most especially as gay people who may live with their significant other in a state or country that does not have marriage equality yet.

If everything is written down and notarized and you have a medical POA and a will, things *should* be done according to your wishes. Hopefully.

Thanks for bringing it up - I feel much better about the person I have chosen to represent me should I become incapacitated.

[julieisafemme]

Thank you for sharing this. It is scary to be in the hospital. Having dealt with Mom, and then immediately after her death, my spouse in the hospital I think the most important thing we can do is have someone there as an advocate. We all need advocates in our medical system!

The body and gender issues were difficult for Greyson. For the most part the staff were very respectful but sometimes they had to be reminded to use the correct pronouns. We went in and talked to all the managers after his stay in a big meeting. It was kind of scary but I am glad we did it and especially that Greyson agreed to share his experience as a Transmasculine butch.

I hope you will come out of your experience healed. Don't die is a great plan!

[Glenn]

I want to die alone. Who wants a bunch of people around just waiting for you to take your last breath? No thanks. I want to die alone in my house. I don't want to die in some noisey hospital with a bunch of IV's in my arm, or a breathing tube down my throat.

[TruTexan]

Personally, I don't want a huge funeral. I just want to be cremated and let my ashes fly over the property that my grandparents own and that still belongs to my family members. I am butch but not male identified. I just don't care what happens to my body after I am gone. Mom knows not to put me in a dress, so do both my sisters and my cousins. I've told my mom what I wanted and told my cousins.I need to cover this with my sisters as well.
I just need to get my funeral arrangements paid for to cover the cost of my ashes and stuff, this way no one can change a thing unless THEY are paying for it, and let my family members know where to find papers for my prepaid arrangements and what to do with my ashes after I am gone.

I kinda think everyone should try to have some kind of plan in action thing to take care of things so their loved ones don't have to go through all that stuff.

[Scots_On_The_Rocks]

Seeing as how several have mentioned their after life plans, I wanted to add....that when the day come that the Universe claims my energies back, I want my body cremated and would love to have this done with my ashes: Bios Urn (http://www.urnabios.com/), and I would request a Sequoia, Mountain Huckleberry or a Pacific Madrone, and have the urn "planted" in one of my favourite places

[Rockinonahigh]

I don't call it "End Game" just good future planing for myself and faimly bio or other wise.Last year I had a lawyer draw a will up for my request of plands.My son James is my executor of my intire estate,he will become full parent to all my fur kids as they all have formed a huge bond.He also will inherit my full estate lock stock and smokeing barrels,if he passes before me my cousin will take over in the same way.My son knows my wishes incase I get into a veggitative state,we had many a long talk about this cause I know full well how he will fell in doing this cause we did this for my mother.I am to be creamated ,I want a amazon funierl but the law says I can have a pyree burning out in the feilds so I will follow the law to do it leagle.When it's done I have an urn I bought years ago that has the amazon symbols on it for a warrior,leader,parent.I don't wan't a funirel; I want a big party celebrateing life hear an over the bridge.

[TruTexan]

Just to add another thought on this topic..........
If I am brain dead or need life support to breathe for me... NOT happening.
I"m an Organ Donor, and my family knows this as well as it is on my driver's license in my state and should make sure of that happening.

[Violette]

First off, a big warm hug to you, Dykeumentary!! I am so sorry you have gone through all of this! Thank you for sharing your video and sparking an important discussion!

Truly, this just came up less than a week ago in my life: what to do in case of serious injury or illness? Who would be my decision maker? Who would speak up for my wishes? I need to make my wishes known, write them down, and share them.

Thankfully, our local hospital is very respectful of all families, however they may present. And you could certainly wear your boxers.

A good reminder to us all!

Oh, yeah! I like the plan of not dying, Dykeumentary!!

[SleepyButch]

Interesting questions. For me when I die, I don't think that I will care much about what I am buried in even though I would prefer to be in a nice suit. My family knows my preferences and I seriously doubt they would put me in a dress but I do understand some people don't have those kind of loved ones.

I know a lot of people make burial arrangements before they ever plan to leave this earth. That would be an option. Go and talk to a funeral director. Express your wishes. Get that all set up down to what you want to wear.

I personally know a funeral director who teaches students and one of the messages she is trying to convey to them is that funerals should be a celebration of the deceased's life and not just for those that are left behind. This means that if someone wants to wear a suit or a dress, that is there option. If someone wants to play heavy metal music at their funeral even if there family objects, that is what should happen. I hope that for all of our sakes that this is the way of the future.


As far as being in a hospital, a lot of people feel like they lose their dignity during those times, not just Butches but everyone. People being made to wear gowns where their asses are hanging out. Having a catheter in, being poked and prodded at what seems like every second. It's never easy being sick and having to deal with this as well makes it that much worse.

Being a nurse myself I would suggest to just find a nurse/someone you trust and tell her/him your wishes. Hey, I prefer to wear my boxers. Hey, I don't want all of these people around when I'm being examined. It makes me uncomfortable. It is your prerogative to ask. A lot of times, hospitals have pants that you can wear instead of those awful gowns. Ask for them. The worse that could happen is they can say no. Someone around there has to be a patient advocate. All nurses should be even though I know that's not the case. They are all concentrating on getting you over your sickness and not thinking about the fact that you might be uncomfortable. Remind them.

Anyway, good luck with whatever you are going through.

[firegal]

This had a a bit of humor in it but also was a reminder of planning ahead.
My lil sis passed away this past February at home surrounded by her wife and me and a few loved ones. It was a reminder to me that we do need to deal with what may happen... To us.....if we choose to.

If we don't the ones that are left behind will have to deal/ make the decisions.

CRAP.... Gotta go quick and clean out THE drawer! Before I go to bed JUST in case!

Serious I do need to plan ahead!

[Rockinonahigh]

Just to add another thought on this topic..........
If I am brain dead or need life support to breathe for me... NOT happening.
I"m an Organ Donor, and my family knows this as well as it is on my driver's license in my state and should make sure of that happening.


I am also an organ donor so is my son,If anything I have worth useing can help someone my passing will be even better to know I helped another be healthy to have a better life.

[morningstar55]

if I was to ever be put in the position of making my partners plans.
i would make ABSOLUTELY sure my guy was dressed accordingly and respectfully , NEVER a dress.

[princessbelle]

~snip~

As far as being in a hospital, a lot of people feel like they lose their dignity during those times, not just Butches but everyone. People being made to wear gowns where their asses are hanging out. Having a catheter in, being poked and prodded at what seems like every second. It's never easy being sick and having to deal with this as well makes it that much worse.

Being a nurse myself I would suggest to just find a nurse/someone you trust and tell her/him your wishes. Hey, I prefer to wear my boxers. Hey, I don't want all of these people around when I'm being examined. It makes me uncomfortable. It is your prerogative to ask. A lot of times, hospitals have pants that you can wear instead of those awful gowns. Ask for them. The worse that could happen is they can say no. Someone around there has to be a patient advocate. All nurses should be even though I know that's not the case. They are all concentrating on getting you over your sickness and not thinking about the fact that you might be uncomfortable. Remind them.

Anyway, good luck with whatever you are going through.

I totally agree SleepyButch. Everyone does need an advocate while you are hospitalized or worse. Make sure someone that knows your wishes on how you want to be treated is with you during these times. Also remember that we nurses take an oath to be a patient advocate. I know i have, as i'm sure all nurses here, have stood nose to nose with doctors protecting our patient's privacy, wishes and personal needs. That is something we don't take lightly. Most of us take it seriously.

Talk to your nurse and if you are incapacitated to the point you can't talk, make sure someone you are close to will do that for you. Be open and honest to the staff and if your nurse seems as though they have forgotten why they are a nurse to begin with, ask for the charge nurse, the nurse manager and so on.

Getting someone pants to wear instead of a gown, being called "he" instead of "she", having a partner in the room, should be the easy stuff compared to why you are there to begin with. Stand up for yourself and don't be afraid to demand the respect as a patient that you deserve.

Back in the 80s when being gay wasn't cool (pardon the pun there) it was way more difficult to get hospital peeps to understand where you might be coming from. Today, even though it is still hard at times, it is better understood. Thanks to the people who educate, like Greyson and Julie for example.

Anyway, i ramble on this because i have seen it transform so much over the years. Bottom line....don't be afraid to tell hospital staff, especially your advocate, your nurse, how you EXPECT to be treated. It is your right.

[*Anya*]

I agree with all the nurses who have posted.

The time it becomes very difficult is when you are unconscious!

The first person that noticed was my advocate and if I did not have one-I shudder to think what may have happened to me.

Nurses are so busy now and have so many critical patients, my advocate noticed before medical personnel that my temp had spiked to 104.

If you need you go to the hospital for any reason, even if you think it is small and that you really do not want to bother your advocate "it's only something minor, I don't want to bother them"; please do it anyway!

Life can turn on a dime in the hospital and frequently does.

Dykeumentary, thank you for so courageously posting your video. I will show it to my own butch. She lives in a lot of denial about potential health-related issues and it scares me.

I hope your video will be the thing to spark a much-needed dialogue between us.

[dykeumentary]

Thanks everyone for your kind thoughts and words of support. I really appreciate them all. Thanks for watching the video, too. As an artist it feels important to share my work at this important time. And thank you to all the health care professionals who are writing. I could never do your job!

I'm glad we are having conversations about our wishes and plans.

Be well, everyone!

[Rockinonahigh]

A fue years ago I was taken to the E.R. cause a dam fool colt kicked me in the ribs vbreaking a two of them.After the xray plus cat skan I was put in a cube I was laying there doped up near naked for the world to see,I began to wake up then called for a nurse to cover me cause I couldnt reach the covers with out being in pain,she did as I ask but the doctor kep jerking the cover off when he came in then leaveing the room door open me freezing.I could reach the phone after some easy wiggling to get to it and called a friend who's wife worked in the hospitial then told him what was going on.In about two minits all hell broke loose whe the chief of staff came down chewing ass all the way down the line.I was put on priorty one then assinged an advocate who got me a scrub suit then some warm covers,then ask if needed anything.I told her I had been there for nearly six hours plus me being borderline diabetic with only a couple glasses of water and I could use some food or fruit she checked my chart then got me a can of diet coke along with an appla and banna.It wasnt long after that I got fixed up and a ride called to take me home.I am glad I called my friend cause I would have been there for no telling how long.They didnt even call my contact number wich was my son.I hear heads rolled over this.

[Sweet Bliss]

Think everyone has covered the bases on this topic.

Prepare, prepare, prepare.

Thank you for bringing up the topic.

[Okiebug61]

Red and I have everything pre-arranged. It was one of those things we did together to make sure there would be no surprises or worries. We even have a travel plan where no matter where we are if something was to happen all arrangements are handled. We both believe in cremation so the attire does not matter. No matter one's age death is final no matter when it comes. Red and I are happy we made the choice to get it handled upfront.

[Sweet Bliss]

Thanks everyone for your kind thoughts and words of support. I really appreciate them all. Thanks for watching the video, too. As an artist it feels important to share my work at this important time. And thank you to all the health care professionals who are writing. I could never do your job!

I'm glad we are having conversations about our wishes and plans.

Be well, everyone!

Hello, how goes the project? What new projects are you working on?

Signed, your fan club

[LexiLove]

This has nothing to do with this thread overall but even though I don't know any of you..i want you to all be healthy, happy, and live long glorious lives. The idea of losing any of you wonderful people makes me sad. Ok, just had to say that.

[fatallyblonde]

thanks for the very poignant video, dykeumentary... I feel like the levity you gave it to underscored the more how difficult a subject it is.
I hope that all your wishes are abided by... everyone here. now I have to go have a little cry!

[dykeumentary]

Thank you Sweet Bliss and FatallyBlonde.

On Friday I'll have my last post-surgery follow-up, and I hope I will now be finished with hospitals forever.

I'm trying to figure out how to make another/better video about working class butches and our relationships to gynocological stuff. Also maybe a longer project about butches and softball. I am eager to play sports again.

I'm glad I survived.

[Tuff Stuff]

It's all planned.My family knows what to do with me if suddenly I end up on life support..don't leave me like that.I want to be 100 years old some day and be healthy and sane,but I don't see myself living past 55 years.I don't want to be a burden on my lover or my family and my wishes are never keep me on life support where i'm some fucking vegetable with no life and they force feed you with tubes and shit and there is no chance of a normal life left..let me die.Afterwards cremate my body and bury me in the family cemetery.Everything is written up in my living Will and all expenses paid for.Come to think of it,living up to 100 can also be a burden on others...I sure as hell don't want to end up in some old folks home..cause you know,with me,that is likely to happen..I don't want to be a burden on anybody,period.And the idea of being old and senile..okay,maybe I don't want to live to be 100 years old,maybe 75 or 80 years old.So real it's not even funny.

[dykeumentary]

Glad to see this important topic revived.

In a strange twist of fate, I'm now my mother's caregiver as she dies. It's been fascinating to see my mom's medical team try to figure out how to deal with a loving butch-dyke daughter.

[iamkeri1]

My FTM husband died almost 13 years ago. He died suddenly and unexpectedly. We were legally married. (well it was legal where we got married, but not in Florida, where we had moved to before his death.) I won't go into the pain and hassle and PAIN I went through because of the stupid laws in existence at the time. Thank the universe for the changes that have now been accomplished for us all .

Really the main thing I want to say is this. We were together for 25 years, and friends for 7 years before that. We had talked about death, who would go first, what kind of life preservation we were comfortable with. how the funeral should be handled, all that stuff. After his death however, I could not for the life of me remember any of his wishes. Funeral or no? burial or cremation? None of it. To this day I have never been able to remember what he wanted. Trauma erased it from my brain, I guess. So take the advise of other writers above, and WRITE IT DOWN.

Smooches,
Keri

[dykeumentary]

That is so sad, iamkeri. I hope in the time since your husband passed, you've found some peace.

I am so glad that I have Mom's wishes WRITTEN DOWN because we live in an area where people feel they can question my judgement and authority to make medical decisions about my mom becuase of their negative opinions about my gender expression, which for them equates to my sexual preferences too. So I have to keep the notarized paperwork with me.

I've never seen them ask to see the legal documents with straight white men. They just assume he's doing everything right.

So yes- get it all written down!