Pat Robertson claims Haiti is cursed; earthquake caused by Haiti's pact with the devil. [Archive]

iamkeri1

01-14-2010, 08:37 PM

Does anyone even pay attention to Robertson any more. He's stuck his foot in his mouth so many times that I think everyone just rolls their eyes and moves on.

Rufus

If you think this man is without influence you are seriously kidding yourself. I wasn't able to quickly find the size of their audience in the last year or so, but it is large. There are 20,000 members of the 700 club alone, They have all pledged to send $20.00 per month to support the broadcasting of the 700 club. This membership alone provides an income of almost 5 million to the show. The 700Club gets over 4 Million prayer requests per year. more information is provided lower on the page.

Listed below is income from their income state ment for the year 2007, showing inccome of $467,700,652 for that one year alone. This information is from the Better Business Bureau Website This income/expense information is for just ONE year - 2007.

The following information is based on CBN's audited combined (with subsidiaries and affiliated organizations) financial statements for the fiscal year ended March 31, 2007:

Source of Funds
Ministry support 248,178,057
Gifts-in-kind 212,290,090
Other revenue 5,712,944
Investment income, net 1,519,561
Total Income $467,700,652

Uses of Funds as a % of Total Expenses

Programs: 90% Fund Raising: 6% Administrative: 4%

Total income $467,700,652
Program expenses $424,007,364
Fund raising expenses 30,413,115
Administrative expenses 18,015,861

Total expenses $472,436,340
Expenses in Excess of Income (4,735,688)
Beginning net assets 219,502,393
Other Changes in Net Assets 114,224
Ending net assets 214,880,929
Total liabilities 42,975,645
Total assets $257,856,574

This money is in trust - a holding of money for Pat Robertson and his wife. Not bad for a simple follower of Christ, is it? This is not his annual income. This is a trust. Income is separate.

CBN's auditors have indicated that for the fiscal year ended March 31, 2007, they were unable to apply audit procedures to the stated fair value of the interest in charitable trust of $67,297,000. The charitable trust being referred to was established by CBN's founder, Pat Robertson. According to Note 6 of CBN's audited financial statements for the year ended March 31, 2007, the assets of the trust are not controlled by CBN and will be distributed to the organization in 2010, or upon the the death of the founder and his wife, whichever is later. The value for the contribution receivable from the trust recorded by CBN is based on information originally provided by the trustee and was discounted at the date of the gift to reflect the present value of the estimated future distribution receivable from the trust. The trustee has reported no changes in the value of the trust. Changes in market values or various assumptions could result in material increases or decreases in the present value of the receivable from the trust.

On the Christian Broadcasting Network website I found this information:
Hosted by Pat Robertson, Terry Meeuwsen, and Gordon Robertson with news anchor Lee Webb, The 700 Club is a mix of news and commentary, interviews, feature stories, and Christian ministry.

Seen in 95 percent of the television markets across the United States, the program is carried on ABC Family Channel cable network, FamilyNet, Trinity Broadcasting Network, and numerous U.S. television stations and is seen daily by approximately one million viewers.
WorldReach broadcasts, which include the international editions of The 700 Club, have been viewed in more than 70 foreign languages, can be seen in more than 200 countries, and are accessible throughout the year by more than 1.5 billion people around the world.

This man/company is worth some serious dough, wields enormous influence and has held several of our recent presidents by the balls. Obama seems to be similarly hamstrung gy the Christian right. To underestimate him (Robertson) is a mistake.
Smoooches,
Keri

Curley

01-14-2010, 09:00 PM

I did'nt know who this was ,so googled him all I can say is that he needs serious anti-psychotic medications. Other words to describe him would not be appropriate for me to put here

Selenay

01-14-2010, 09:02 PM

So. . .

This must be a really slow acting vengeful God, if he waited 200 years to punish Haiti for that. . .

canmarielan

01-14-2010, 09:02 PM

The saddest part is....PEOPLE BELIEVE THE STUFF HE SPOUTS!!!!

I'm serious.

I had this coworker months ago say that Pat Robertson is the only person with courage to say what "God" really wants us to hear.

*sigh*

But, of course....it's alright...after all, the bible did tell me so.

I'm so glad I'm not brainwashed anymore.

Rockinonahigh

01-14-2010, 09:27 PM

Pat Robertson is just doing what he always has done,profit form other ppl..He couldnt hold an honest job if he tryed.There ought to be a law for ppl like him to be put away somewhere so they can leave the rest of the decent folks in this world alone.I know some ppl that are hoodwinked out of there hard earned money would be better off.
Rockin

Jess

01-14-2010, 09:29 PM

So. . .

This must be a really slow acting vengeful God, if he waited 200 years to punish Haiti for that. . .

So slow he actually missed the guy who made the pact. I dunno, but seems to me that 200 years late and wiping out generations that had nothing to do with the french imperialism is a tad overkill.

Showoff! :whoop:

SuperFemme

01-14-2010, 09:34 PM

So slow he actually missed the guy who made the pact. I dunno, but seems to me that 200 years late and wiping out generations that had nothing to do with the french imperialism is a tad overkill.

Showoff! :whoop:

I'm wondering if all the Christian Missionaries over there were really what God had in mind.

Just saying.

Selenay

01-14-2010, 09:41 PM

So slow he actually missed the guy who made the pact. I dunno, but seems to me that 200 years late and wiping out generations that had nothing to do with the french imperialism is a tad overkill.

Showoff! :whoop:

Yeah, and at one point is the debt paid?
Do they (all the Haitians alive, now) have to request their souls back? Do they have to ask the French to reinvade?

I'd love to know, Patty. . .

SuperFemme

01-14-2010, 09:46 PM

Yeah, and at one point is the debt paid?
Do they (all the Haitians alive, now) have to request their souls back? Do they have to ask the French to reinvade?

I'd love to know, Patty. . .

Does Christianity even believe in "curses"?

Jess

01-14-2010, 09:50 PM

While we're on Pat and CBN... keep an eye on your ballots in Nov...
They don't just hate Haitians...

http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2010/January/Religious-Leaders-Urge-Americans-to-Fight-Gay-Marriage/

Selenay

01-14-2010, 09:52 PM

Does Christianity even believe in "curses"?

(I'm not sure if this is rhetorical or not, so I'll answer as though it is not :) )

According to the bible (proverbs 26:2b), "An undeserved curse does not come to rest." Likewise, Micah 5:12 says that God will, "destroy your witchcraft and you will no longer cast spells." I'm assuming "you" is those dang French, who cursed the Haitians.

Also, if we're talking specifically about Christians who follow the new testament, not those who follow solely the bible, 1 John 4:4 specifies that Children from God don't have to worry, because, "The one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world," meaning that Christ is greater than Satan, so curses are worthless.

SuperFemme

01-14-2010, 10:03 PM

(I'm not sure if this is rhetorical or not, so I'll answer as though it is not :) )

According to the bible (proverbs 26:2b), "An undeserved curse does not come to rest." Likewise, Micah 5:12 says that God will, "destroy your witchcraft and you will no longer cast spells." I'm assuming "you" is those dang French, who cursed the Haitians.

Also, if we're talking specifically about Christians who follow the new testament, not those who follow solely the bible, 1 John 4:4 specifies that Children from God don't have to worry, because, "The one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world," meaning that Christ is greater than Satan, so curses are worthless.

It wasn't rhetorical. Thank you Selly for answering.

I am most concerned not with just this (and many others) remark from Roberston, I am concerned that shows like "Meet the Press" regularly have Robertson and other 700 Club correspondents on as pundits. They are not political figures, have no bearing on the inner workings of the USA or other nations. Yet, they are on show after show spouting this rhetoric as though they have a role in things. As though it was fact.

Lots of people are *sheeple* and believe everything on television. That impact is what worries me and scares me in my heart of hearts.

wolfwalker

01-15-2010, 06:33 AM

it is my opinion that Pat and his crew are really the leading troops for the coming of the anti-christ. They suck in all the stupid people and march on. I have no seen them announce any donations to helping these poor people.

Evil is still evil, no matter whose name you invoke it.

wolfwalker :fudd:

Jess

01-15-2010, 06:53 AM

Maybe he does believe in curses. While he has no missions in Haiti, he has quite a few in French speaking ( formerly French occupied) countries in Africa.

May have to look up where he stood with the American boycott of all things "French" after shock and awe. Bet he has a blessed fry daddy for his secret stash of french fries!

Alas, I should pray for him.

Sweet dreams Pat :chasingzombie::chasingzombie::chasingzombie:

Sends him a nice choc bunny for Easter... :eatthebunny:

YouTube- Curse of the Zombie Jesus!

always2late

01-15-2010, 07:13 AM

Toughy

01-15-2010, 07:13 AM

Jess

01-15-2010, 07:22 AM

He and that man in the funny hat and dress better known as the Pope are both evil fuckers.

But dayam, I love those shoes!!!

clicks red heels together " there's no place like Rome, there's no place like Rome"

Words

01-15-2010, 08:20 AM

Dig a little deeper about his financial empire.

He has several diamond and other gemstone mines all over Africa...........

He and that man in the funny hat and dress better known as the Pope are both evil fuckers.

(((Toughy,)))

You got all upset when someone accused Mary Daly of being transphobic. How'd you think the Catholics on the site are going to feel when they see the Pope - you know, the guy in the dress who just happens to be the head of the Catholic Church? - being labelled an 'evil fucker'?

I'm not a Christian, let alone Catholic, and really don't care for the current pope myself. Evil fucker though? C'mmon.

Words

labete

01-15-2010, 09:16 AM

Its a mistake to believe that the "Pat Robertsons" of the world have no bearing on the inner workings of the US. The man has half a billion dollars coming in yearly for his "mission". Politics (and politicians) are controlled by money and Pat Robertson is heavily invested in politics (not just in the US, he is also heavily invested overseas).

Its a mistake to think that Pat is just a moronic old fool (although he is). That fool and others of his ilk control votes in our Congress and Senate. THAT is what is really terrifying about this.

Robertson is a man of frightening undue influence, and his ilk are highly influential in U.S. politics. Take a look at Wikipedia on "The Fellowship" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fellowship_(Christian_organization)) aka "The Family" (http://www.democracynow.org/2009/8/12/sharlet) (Google for lots more info, or watch Rachel Maddow (http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=c+street+rachel+maddow&search_type=&aq=f) give you an overview.)

The United States isn't as politically conservative, especially on social issues, as it is because of the "Moral Majority" or high levels of voter backlash against boogeymen. There is some of that, but it's not where the power is. It is because there are people with loads of power and money who are very invested in ensuring that conservatism, and who network, recruit, support in all kinds of ways, people to do the work to make that happen. Some of the faces change, but the mission statement remains the same. It's like the "good ol' boy network," but specifically for socially conservative Christianist politicians and political workers (lobbyists, Congressional and White House staffers, etc.).

Some of them are cynics looking for a good hook into power, and others are true believers in the cause, but either way the net result is the perpetuation of ultra-conservative mores, especially in circles of influence.

suebee

01-15-2010, 10:06 AM

Robertson is a man of frightening undue influence, and his ilk are highly influential in U.S. politics. Take a look at Wikipedia on "The Fellowship" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fellowship_(Christian_organization)) aka "The Family" (http://www.democracynow.org/2009/8/12/sharlet) (Google for lots more info, or watch Rachel Maddow (http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=c+street+rachel+maddow&search_type=&aq=f) give you an overview.)

The United States isn't as politically conservative, especially on social issues, as it is because of the "Moral Majority" or high levels of voter backlash against boogeymen. There is some of that, but it's not where the power is. It is because there are people with loads of power and money who are very invested in ensuring that conservatism, and who network, recruit, support in all kinds of ways, people to do the work to make that happen. Some of the faces change, but the mission statement remains the same. It's like the "good ol' boy network," but specifically for socially conservative Christianist politicians and political workers (lobbyists, Congressional and White House staffers, etc.).

Some of them are cynics looking for a good hook into power, and others are true believers in the cause, but either way the net result is the perpetuation of ultra-conservative mores, especially in circles of influence.

I agree with you Labete, but this particular incident went further than conservatism - it's pretty clear racism.

morningstar55

01-15-2010, 10:36 AM

Does anyone even pay attention to Robertson any more. He's stuck his foot in his mouth so many times that I think everyone just rolls their eyes and moves on.

Rufus

im rolling my eyes reading this now......... lol :huhlaugh:

PapaC

01-15-2010, 10:45 AM

(((Toughy,)))

You got all upset when someone accused Mary Daly of being transphobic. How'd you think the Catholics on the site are going to feel when they see the Pope - you know, the guy in the dress who just happens to be the head of the Catholic Church? - being labelled an 'evil fucker'?

I'm not a Christian, let alone Catholic, and really don't care for the current pope myself. Evil fucker though? C'mmon.

Words

Considering Mary Daly was a catholic.... Many many catholics around the world over the years have been ummmm... dissatisfied with the politics of women in the church.

Evil fucker? no. misguided? yes.

Tommi

01-15-2010, 10:51 AM

It wasn't rhetorical. Thank you Selly for answering.
I am most concerned not with just this (and many others) remark from Roberston, I am concerned that shows like "Meet the Press" regularly have Robertson and other 700 Club correspondents on as pundits. They are not political figures, have no bearing on the inner workings of the USA or other nations. Yet, they are on show after show spouting this rhetoric as though they have a role in things. As though it was fact.

Lots of people are *sheeple* and believe everything on television. That impact is what worries me and scares me in my heart of hearts.

Amen = so be it *,
as exclaimed by the many watching Robertson and cronies on TV.

I was cruising the Pacific Coast highway from San Diego along a beautiful stretch enjoying the view of the ocean** when I crashed..No.not really** the ocean, and heard a story about the voodoo curse being lifted by a group years ago. So I guess Pat R. didn't know God reversed the worse curse cause Pat doesn't listen to public radio :farmeggs: . If we are what we eat, are we what we listen too also.? Thinking I will tune in to the Kids channel so I can be a super hero today..:unicorn: Since the airwaves bring the truth, as does the written word to many, thought I would contribute to the knowledge base.. tells the truth and nothing but the truth so help me God. (doesn't say which God) So, here is the link and part of the story I heard...for those who like to read..--->http://redtory.wordpress.com/2010/01/13/haiti’s-“devil-pact”-explained/

Excerpt below:

So there… even if one actually subscribes to the “Devil Pact” legend, as Robertson appears to, the unholy contract was voided some years ago by Christian do-gooder

On 14 August 1997, God’s people in Haiti experienced a historic victory over Satan, a milestone in winning our country back for God. The reason lies in history. The slaves brought here from Africa have suffered incredibly for many years. On 14 August 1791, a slave leader by the name of Boukman called a secret meeting in a wood called Bois-Caiman near Cap Haitien, which was attended by a large number of slaves. They celebrated a satanic ceremony, sacrificing a pig and drinking its blood, swore to serve the Devil and dedicated Haiti to him. For 206 years, Bois-Caiman was a very holy place, a high place which could only be entered by witch doctors during Voodoo ceremonies. For 206 years, they have been meeting there every August 14 to sacrifice to Satan.

A number of Christian leaders, including Paul and Gerald Clerie of Vision: Haiti and Christian leaders among the large numbers of Haitians in the USA, Canada, France and other countries, called Christians to unite on 14 August 1997 to pray and fast that Haiti would return to God. In Haiti’s towns, villages and mountains, Christians came together to fast and pray, held victory marches in the streets and a large event in the capital from 6am to 10pm during the holy invasion.

Our church members started their march in front of the President’s palace and marched for 6 hours to the place where the satanic ceremony took place 206 years ago. We had informed the government and media of our intentions weeks before the event, and were told that the witch doctors would be there, as they were every year. When we arrived, they had hidden themselves, unable to directly confront the Christians. It was a significant spiritual battle to reach the tree under which the pig was sacrificed in the original ceremony. We formed a Jericho march, circling the magic tree seven times. On the seventh time around, God gave many people a vision of the Devil fleeing from the area. The Christians were overjoyed. We cancelled the satanic contract and broke the curse, before celebrating communion and dedicating the area as a place of prayer. We also declared 14 August to be a national prayer day, on which people should pray that Haiti will return to God.

On the same day, several witch doctors were saved during the events in the capital. Three days after our holy invasion, the witch doctors returned to Bois-Caiman to bring their sacrifices and call on the spirits. After days of effort, nothing happened, because we had commanded the spirits never to return and dedicated the area to Christ.

The witch doctors complained to the government and media. At first, the government also protested, speaking in a press release of ‘terrible damage to a Voodoo holy place in which no Christian had set foot for 206 years.’ By the grace of God, the government relented and respected our legal right as Haitians to gather at any place on Haiti, including Bois-Caiman, where they now allow all Christian groups to meet. The place is now very popular, and local Christians gather there daily for prayer and fasting. All Haitians now know that the country no longer has a pact with the Devil; the contract has been cancelled, the curse broken.

So there… even if one actually subscribes to the “Devil Pact” legend, as Robertson appears to, the unholy contract was voided some years ago by Christian do-gooder..." see link for full story.

There is hope. We have our own Planet...speaking the language of LOVE...

labete

01-15-2010, 11:16 AM

I agree with you Labete, but this particular incident went further than conservatism - it's pretty clear racism.

I understand, but from where I sit, they are inextricably linked. Conservatism is about preserving a way of life based on the kyrarchy; racism is an integral part of that.

Now, many people may call themselves conservative or hold conservative positions without consciously supporting racism, without believing in the most base credo of racism (that there are natural or divinely-given differences among races which result in racial superiority and inferiority), but when their choices and actions support a kyriarchy that reifies positions of privelege linked to race, class, ethnicity, sex, gender, religion, national origin, etc., the end result is one of reaffirming those racist beliefs and their power in our culture.

SuperFemme

01-15-2010, 11:16 AM

Jess

01-15-2010, 11:52 AM

I understand, but from where I sit, they are inextricably linked. Conservatism is about preserving a way of life based on the kyrarchy; racism is an integral part of that.

Now, many people may call themselves conservative or hold conservative positions without consciously supporting racism, without believing in the most base credo of racism (that there are natural or divinely-given differences among races which result in racial superiority and inferiority), but when their choices and actions support a kyriarchy that reifies positions of privelege linked to race, class, ethnicity, sex, gender, religion, national origin, etc., the end result is one of reaffirming those racist beliefs and their power in our culture.

Hope not to derail, but what is kyrachy/kyriarchy? I tried to look it up so I could read your post in context, but can't find a definition.

Much appreciated.

labete

01-15-2010, 12:02 PM

Hope not to derail, but what is kyrachy/kyriarchy? I tried to look it up so I could read your post in context, but can't find a definition.

Much appreciated.

Sorry, I typed too fast and misspelled at least once. It's kyriarchy.

Kyriarchy – a neologism coined by Elisabeth Schussler Fiorenza and derived from the Greek words for “lord” or “master” (kyrios) and “to rule or dominate” (archein) which seeks to redefine the analytic category of patriarchy in terms of multiplicative intersecting structures of domination…Kyriarchy is best theorized as a complex pyramidal system of intersecting multiplicative social structures of superordination and subordination, of ruling and oppression.

Patriarchy – Literally means the rule of the father and is generally understood within feminist discourses in a dualistic sense as asserting the domination of all men over all women in equal terms. The theoretical adequacy of patriarchy has been challenged because, for instance, black men do not have control over white wo/men and some women (slave/mistresses) have power over subaltern women and men (slaves).

- Glossary, Wisdom Ways, Orbis Books New York 2001

Basically, it's a more complex model of power-over structures which acknowleges that while someone might have privilege (been misspelling that one all day!) in some areas, that same person may be lacking privilege in others. Under the standard "patriarchy keeps us down" rhetoric, it is understood that the people with most power in our culture (and yes, I'm being somewhat U.S.-centric, as it is what I know best) are white men. But what about white men who are blue collar workers? Or homeless? Or not able-bodied? Or transmen? Or gay? They may all still get privilege on the basis of race and gender, but privilege is not static and is relative and their resulting position in the kyriarchy may be significantly lower than, for example, a successful, able-bodied black male entrepeneur.

Does that help?

Jess

01-15-2010, 12:09 PM

Sorry, I typed too fast and misspelled at least once. It's kyriarchy.

Basically, it's a more complex model of power-over structures which acknowleges that while someone might have privilege (been misspelling that one all day!) in some areas, that same person may be lacking privilege in others. Under the standard "patriarchy keeps us down" rhetoric, it is understood that the people with most power in our culture (and yes, I'm being somewhat U.S.-centric, as it is what I know best) are white men. But what about white men who are blue collar workers? Or homeless? Or not able-bodied? Or transmen? Or gay? They may all still get privilege on the basis of race and gender, but privilege is not static and is relative and their resulting position in the kyriarchy may be significantly lower than, for example, a successful, able-bodied black male entrepeneur.

Does that help?

Thanks a lot! Interesting concept and worth looking up. Many words haven't made it into "traditional " dictionaries yet, so i appreciate the time in helping me with this.

labete

01-15-2010, 12:29 PM

Thanks a lot! Interesting concept and worth looking up. Many words haven't made it into "traditional " dictionaries yet, so i appreciate the time in helping me with this.

Absolutely! I only first encountered the word a couple of years ago myself, but I appreciate the acknowlegement it allows to the complexity of power-over structures and the intersections of racism, classism, sexism, ableism, ageism, sizeism and all the other "isms" that impact our access to power and privilege.

dreadgeek

01-15-2010, 03:37 PM

Does anyone even pay attention to Robertson any more. He's stuck his foot in his mouth so many times that I think everyone just rolls their eyes and moves on.

Rufus

That may be a comforting belief but I think Robertson does, in fact, have quite a following. Not only does he have his own show (which is syndicated on a lot of stations) but he has his own network. He has the ear of Republican politicians AND, keep in mind, he's just one who *said* it. How many people will hear something similar on Sunday?

Having deprogrammed myself from a fundamentalist Christian mindset a decade ago, I tend to take folks like Robertson, Hagee, Warren, et. al. *very* seriously. I presume that they mean what they say and say precisely what they mean. What's more, I presume that there are any number of people who believe the things that they spew forth. It can be very comfortable to dismiss Robertson as just some old cook sitting in a basement somewhere but I think that the time for that is past.

I watched the queer movement dismiss the Christian right through the nineties, writing them off as some kind of rump movement of maybe a thousand people sitting in some basement church while all the while, the CR gathered strength, executing their stealth strategy with commitment and discipline. Their views have consequences and those of us who stand to lose the most from them coming to power would be well-served to take them seriously and to make certain that their words are heard beyond the safe circle where their ideas are welcome.

Cheers
Aj

SuperFemme

01-15-2010, 03:43 PM

That may be a comforting belief but I think Robertson does, in fact, have quite a following. Not only does he have his own show (which is syndicated on a lot of stations) but he has his own network. He has the ear of Republican politicians AND, keep in mind, he's just one who *said* it. How many people will hear something similar on Sunday?

Having deprogrammed myself from a fundamentalist Christian mindset a decade ago, I tend to take folks like Robertson, Hagee, Warren, et. al. *very* seriously. I presume that they mean what they say and say precisely what they mean. What's more, I presume that there are any number of people who believe the things that they spew forth. It can be very comfortable to dismiss Robertson as just some old cook sitting in a basement somewhere but I think that the time for that is past.

I watched the queer movement dismiss the Christian right through the nineties, writing them off as some kind of rump movement of maybe a thousand people sitting in some basement church while all the while, the CR gathered strength, executing their stealth strategy with commitment and discipline. Their views have consequences and those of us who stand to lose the most from them coming to power would be well-served to take them seriously and to make certain that their words are heard beyond the safe circle where their ideas are welcome.

Cheers
Aj

They are very scary. The fact that Warren can make trips to Uganda as part of "The Family" and preach to them about gays being cured has ended up with a death penalty for being gay there. Now he is trying to distance himself from it all.

They really do believe we should receive the death penalty. Scare the Jesus right out of me.

Andrew, Jr.

01-15-2010, 04:41 PM

Pat Robertson is delusional. God is love. Nothing more, nothing less. What Robertson is spewing is hatred. I am glad I won't be in his shoes when he meets his maker.

Toughy

01-15-2010, 06:33 PM

laughin....

((((((((((((Words))))))))))))))))

dang I love my friends.........laughin

I get to use hyperbole just like other people!!!!

====
Big Daddy PapaChris......

misguided would describe Sarah Palin.............laughin.........I kinda think the Pope is far more than misguided.........and that would include damn near all of them......there are some exceptions....

-------------------------

Pat Robertson is a greedy money grumbing carpetbagging capitalist who uses religion as the cover for where all his hidden money is buried..........

Christian evil is a concept..... from my position as an outsider......that Pat and the Pope (and several others) appear to do their best to accomplish......

-----------

in general we all need to be careful about underestimating those we so easily call idiot and ignorant........I don't think Pat or Sarah Palin or Bill O'Reilly or Pope or Rick Warren or ______ fit those definitions.......

WILDCAT

01-15-2010, 07:57 PM

I think Pat is crazy and evil and I agree with Toughy that the pope is as well. What's the difference if we refer to one of these men as "fucking evil" and not the other...? (Or, that it's OK to wish Pat a slow death, or say how sick we think he is or that he is ignorant, etc... here on the site? People are expressing their outrage, thoughts, feelings on this.) There are Christians Protestants - and Christian Catholics both here. They are untouchable in word here, unless moderated/cushioned in protection, because... "why"? Who cares about us queers? Hell WE turn on each other here. Do I make these men more important than I think we are - or the people of Haiti? (Although, I feel both act "as if" they are "god-like", or are god, whatever that means...?)

Both men have many, MANY followers. LOTS of money involved! But, more concerning to me, the power of that money to sway negativity - such as in this case with Haiti. Neither of them wish "US" folks too much wellness in our lives as queers either... neither of them want us to have the rights to be able to love or be legally united - in fact, they're sure we are going to hell and suffer miserably. (Unless we repent, of course... denounce perhaps? Then maybe we'll be spared?)

The thing IS that Pat does have such a huge empire TOO, that when he made yet another insane and ignorant comment like this here... it STOPPED dead in their tracks thousands of folks who would have otherwise sent aid to Haiti.

That IS "fucking evil", IMO. Saying something like this while parentless children and every possible horrible family/loss scenario are being shown [clearly] running around the streets all bloody, crying, lost and confused... (?)

Hopefully, this will PISS OFF enough folks though then, to help who wouldn't have otherwise - on the other hand... knowing what he just took away by his extreme thoughtlessness and insensitivity.

Oh, has the pope denounced what Pat said yet? I was just wondering... I'm SURE he has said to help out at this time - to have great compassion, especially as the funds can come more directly now to that specific denomination.
___

Plus, I wanted to ask - is there REALLY a reference to the actual word "WITCH" in the bible? I didn't know that sentiment went back that far in time - that specific, actual word!? (Or, is this from one of the modernized easy for the comtempory folk adapted [very specially interpreted] new word reading bibles, where they can INFER ANY DAMN THING? Otherwise, no wonder they burned all of those "witches" in Salem! Or, did they burn the folks for not being christians and then they reworded the bible now to suit this murder spree in more modern times... as OK??)

*Sorry for derail, but it surprised me reading that bible verse here... until, I thought of the newly reworded bibles while writing here. Anyone know, feel free to PM me if the word witch was "originally" stated WAY BACK...

Wildcat

SuperFemme

01-15-2010, 08:02 PM

l

in general we all need to be careful about underestimating those we so easily call idiot and ignorant........I don't think Pat or Sarah Palin or Bill O'Reilly or Pope or Rick Warren or ______ fit those definitions.......

Fine.

How's about "Crazy like a fox"?

iamkeri1

01-16-2010, 12:14 AM

Unbelievable!!! (I just can't stop using that word since I am not capable of understanding the basis, origin, reason for, whatever! of these hate filled and pain inducing statements on an ongoing basis.)
Back to ... unbelievable, I heard the President of France speaking on ABC early this morning, and HE said that Haiti was cursed. He was much more sympathetic in his comments, but still the idea that he refers to Haiti as cursed creeps me out, and is victim-blaming in a very big way IMHO.

I couldn't come up with any film of this (at six in the morning it seemed to me that he had a greedy little glint in his eye when speaking of the outside intervention he is going to encourage "for" Haiti.) But hell, maybe I was imagining it, and I was suffering from lack of sleep. Anyway, here's the text. Judge for yourselves.
Smooches,
Keri

PARIS (Reuters) - French President Nicolas Sarkozy called on Thursday for an international donor conference to help Haiti recover from its devastating earthquake.

Sarkozy said he would be discussing the idea with U.S. President Barack Obama, Brazilian President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva and Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper.

"From this catastrophe, which follows so many others, we should make sure that it is a chance to get Haiti once and for all out of the curse it seems to have been stuck with for such a long time," Sarkozy told reporters.

"This new tragedy can be the last if the international community mobilises to help this country," he added.

He said France would work closely with the European Union to send "very important means" to rebuild Haiti, but did not give any specific figures.

Sarkozy said he would visit Haiti in the coming weeks to meet President Rene Preval. France would also be sending two ships to Haiti, a water treatment centre and new search teams.

France has also asked Air France, Air Caraibes and XL Airways to put on special flights to Haiti for families of victims so that they can visit the island as soon as the airport is open to civilian aircraft.

Heart

01-16-2010, 08:04 AM

The Devil writes Pat Robertson a letter:

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2010/01/the_devil_writes_pat_robertson.html?sc=fb&cc=fp

Peach

01-16-2010, 08:35 AM

gotta love Keith

http://newsjunkiepost.com/2010/01/15/keith-olbermann-puts-rush-limbaugh-and-pat-robertson-in-their-place/

WILDCAT

01-16-2010, 11:09 AM

gotta love Keith

http://newsjunkiepost.com/2010/01/15/keith-olbermann-puts-rush-limbaugh-and-pat-robertson-in-their-place/

Wow, this just FLOORED me hearing what Rush said! Talk about obviously utilizing a horrible disaster for political gain right now! Why should I be surprised?!

I have been livid, to sick, to heartbroken over the fact that folks like G. Beck at Fox and the like, are having field days, these wonderful [racist] discussions - commenting, criticizing and ANALYZING the skin tone of folks - like what the fuck?! And discussing the president as they have been. If they were government "officials" doing this in public (we all know this is done by folks in government amongst theirselves - good elected officials representin' the people) they would be challenged to step down.

And the media sucks it up. It's like this massively huge vortex! Never ending with putrid garbage slinging! And the rating wars continue on the major networks. The followers [at home] get into these extremely negative dilusionary viewpoints. It's quite disgusting and appalling to me! Don't people have fucking minds of their own? What has happened to free and independent thinking?!

I'm just not a good "follower", AT ALL. I truly appreciate the others here on this site, who clearly think for theirselves... you help keep me sane.
__

Otherwise, yes - Keith read their ass here. Good for him. Thanks for sharing this.

WC

*OK, now this was a mini-rant for those of you who need to know or want/care to distinguish. :thinking: But, now I'm done with "justifying" myself here on this site, got it? Thank you. :cat:

Andrew, Jr.

01-16-2010, 12:53 PM

What happened to getting New Orleans rebuilt and getting people cared for and giving them what they needed? I am getting the feeling that our gov't is spending more $$ on Haiti than our own people.

Please don't flame me for this. I really don't understand.

Andrew

SuperFemme

01-16-2010, 12:59 PM

There are people dying in the streets in Haiti. Shall we turn our backs because of man made borders or are they simply HUMAN?

Andrew, Jr.

01-16-2010, 01:19 PM

Bit

01-16-2010, 01:56 PM

I came here specifically to post the rebuttal from the Maligned One, but I see Heart beat me to it, lol!

The Devil writes Pat Robertson a letter:

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2010/01/the_devil_writes_pat_robertson.html?sc=fb&cc=fp

Y'all have GOT to read that; it's wonderful, and oh, so logical!

I'm not a Christian, let alone Catholic, and really don't care for the current pope myself. Evil fucker though? C'mmon.

Maybe "fucker" is the wrong word.... but "evil"? Please stop and think a minute, and define evil...

To me, "evil" is the smiling face that promotes hate, in a twisted enough way to convince people the person is actually promoting love; in a twisted enough way to convince people they actually deserve the hate "because it is love."

What could be more evil than that? When a person who is NOT the Pope does it, when say, a woman's husband twists his words to make her believe that his brand of hate is actually love and that she deserves every nasty thing he says or does "because he loves her," we flat-out call him an abuser.

I suppose, having grown up Catholic, I have higher standards for Popes than Ratzinger can meet: "Love your neighbor as yourself." It seems pretty elementary to me.

Plus, I wanted to ask - is there REALLY a reference to the actual word "WITCH" in the bible? I didn't know that sentiment went back that far in time - that specific, actual word!? (Or, is this from one of the modernized easy for the comtempory folk adapted [very specially interpreted] new word reading bibles, where they can INFER ANY DAMN THING?

Modern times are not the first time the Bible was edited. The actual specific word "witch" is an English word and would have first showed up in the King James Bible, so it's been in there for several hundred years... BUT the whole quote? That "shall not suffer a witch to live" nonsense?

It's not in the original Greek or Aramaic versions. It was edited into the Latin Bible to justify the Spanish Inquisition.

WILDCAT

01-16-2010, 02:01 PM

I have no problem helping anyone in need in a crisis, but it appears to me, and just me alone mind you, that we are turning our backs on our fellow citizens. I never believed in borders. People are people. We should be helping each other out. Does this make sense?

Helping ANYONE is helping each other out, yes?

Andrew, there are different levels of crisis and emergencies...

Now, in Haiti - search and rescue, medical treatment, dealing with the volumes of deceased bodies, food, water and immediate shelter, etc... are the focus and primary concerns. AS, it was during the beginning of the Katrina disaster. Now there (in New Orleans), are the longer term concerns being dealt with. In Haiti such will be the case down the road as well - in fact, these concerns have already been set into motion. But, there must be priorities and balancing in the order...
_

Perhaps to think of it this way... if a third of your town flooded out, people died, and others needed rescued, medical attention, food and shelter, etc... it would be dealt with as best it could be. People from other towns would show up to help, etc...

Then, another town had the same thing happen.

Would we not want to help with the others too then, who are now going through the same crisis? We are all each other's neighbors, to be here for each other.

Sincerely -
Wildcat

*Folks like Brad Pitt and many others have been deeply involved in building projects in New Orleans since Katrina. Now, Brad and Anjolie (s.p.?) also just gave one million dollars to the immediate Haiti emergency efforts... as just one private citizen (well, actually a "couple" of course) example. And governments are to help each other and be there for each other as well - they represent us. We elected these officials to do so. We had support and help from other countries when 9/11 happened... Receive, give, receive, give...

Andrew, Jr.

01-16-2010, 02:01 PM

The abuser part of the letter made me think of my father, Bit. You are right when you used the word "twisted". It sure is.

Wildcat,

Thank you for explaining it to me. I have been watching on TV what is going on, and I am just in tears. It breaks my heart to see the devistation. It is the same feeling I had when I saw New Orleans. I just cried. People were crying, they needed help, and food/water...

Dean Thoreau

01-16-2010, 02:04 PM

Well............. let us look at it this way.....

There is a lot of poverty in New Orleans and in many places of the United States.... and we need to give there as well.....one of the reasons the US has so much poverty is cause we do not take care of....or care about "our own" unless there is a disaster ...... and we americans like to attach strings when we give....

People in haiti if they had 1/2 the income that "poverty level" individuals in the USA earned would think they were millionaires. Remember people in Haiti for the most part earn less than $2 US Dollars a day, that doesn't mean they are lazy, that doesn't mean things are cheap, it means that the people in Haiti are so poor even before the Earthquake, they were starving..but before the earthquake people just didn't seem to care. Haiti has had more hurricanes real real bad ones in the past 4 years then u can imagine and it barely if ever was mentioned on the news. If it were not for Bill Clinton and Dr Farmer pushing the UN and being special emissary's there it is a sad thing to say but ,,, it is highly possible the mainstream news and the general population would not be doing to much now.
Believe it or not there are actually people saying do not give money to Haiti,,it will never help them anyway....it is to much and they wont know what to do with it...they will be better off now that the earthquake has happened.....
Everyone is entitled to their opinion as we are all entitled to disagree or agree.....

Personally I think we should donate money whenever and as often as we possibly can,,,and not wait for a disaster to do it... www.PIH.org is alwasy working hard,,so is habitat for humanity.org so is the red cross, and the goodwill and the salvation army, and just thousands of places that help in the US and internationally... I dont get hung up on an organizations religiousity all that much, cause when they are feeding the hungry and they are putting food on the plate, they are not saying....sorry it is for .......... granted they might evangelize during the supper....I think if left and right could just get together and work together to wipe out poverty and hunger it would be a thing of the past....

And I think if every person in this world who is by the worlds standards is living above the poverty line.... would donate 25 cents to end hunger....it would end.

Americans seem for some reason to think we are the only ones that ever help any other country. In truth that is rather wrong. go to www.alertnet.org and look and see what people all over the world do.
Should we give more to "our own" yes,,we are not to good about giving to anyone especially "our own"
Think about it when u walk down a street in a city...u see a guy sleeping on the sidewalk what is your thought? lazy bum, drunk? druggie? How many of us really think ..."oh my that is my brother human who is down on his luck...let me go buy a meal and bring it to him??" not enough of us or the guy would not be asleep on the street.

Yesterday at work I was talking with a coworker...and I made the comment ...we are all about 45 days away from being homeless..so who are we to judge....She looked at me and said "Waht do u mean,,,I am not 45 days ..."
I responded so u tell me...you loose your job, your husband looses his job...how many weeks before the savings is wiped? Will the unemployment checks cover all the expenses? Will they cover all the bills? How long before you start getting behind on the electric? the oil? the credit cards? the mortgage?
She looked t me with panic in her eyes.....then she said Oh My God, I never thought about it like that....my family can be homeless...."

I nodded and walked away.....cause everyone of us can be homeless....and once we realize that we are a lot more inclined to give to organizations that serve the poor, the hungry, the homeless....selfish reason to give, perhaps but at least u give...

key

01-16-2010, 09:07 PM

iamkeri1

01-16-2010, 10:52 PM

their beliefs to create fear and division among people.

I heard this week that P Robertson is worth billions and part of it due to his diamond mines (blood money). Except for monks and other religious sects who take vows of poverty they should not be allowed tax exempt status.

I "repped" you for this already, but I also wanted to post my agreement. Tax exemption should particularly be denied to groups who get involved in politics. Like the Catholic church and their constant campaigns against abortion, and their constant funding of anti-gay legislation.

I looked in to founding a 501C3 non-profit corporation three years ago, and there were specific restrictions prohibit lobbying and other political activities that I do not clearly remember at this time. Anyway, the Catholic Church, and many other large denominations hire lobbyists all the time to push their positions. Why are they allowed to do this while other non-profits are not?.

On a less serious note, I laughed when I saw you refer to him as P. Robertson. He is definetly what my little cousin would call a pee pee head, LOL!!!!!!!!!
Smooches,
Keri

Just_G

01-18-2010, 12:31 AM

I personally think that people like Rush and Pat, that make the judgements and statements that they do, should have to go down to help the people of Haiti. Their egos are WAY out of control!

Jess

01-18-2010, 01:39 AM

If memory serves me... Pat also blamed Katrina on Ellen Degeneres. Now THAT is a lot of power he gives to her!

Cyclopea

01-18-2010, 04:01 PM

:present: (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190365539998&ssPageName=ADME:L:LCA:US:1123)

iamkeri1

01-18-2010, 04:19 PM

:present: (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190365539998&ssPageName=ADME:L:LCA:US:1123)

Far Out!!! Hope they raise a million!
Smooches,
Keri

Andrew, Jr.

01-18-2010, 07:44 PM

Sandra Bullock donated $1 million. I donated what I could.

RNguy

01-18-2010, 08:34 PM

Wow, it's such a shame that evangalists out there such as Pat play judges.
Instead of preaching about getting help out there asap, and pray for recovery and healings, he in turn stands on the pulpit and screams about this being a justice and they get what they deserve?????
Really Pat, these children ( all people are Gods children ) but these children deserved this???????? such an insane non christian thing to say!
Judge not lest you be judged the same, so I really feel sorry for Pat Robinsons household.
My wife's pastor really amazed me on Sat. bc he really stood on the pulpit and preached about how Pat was wrong in saying those statements. I was really loving him put that statement down.

-RNguy

RNguy

01-18-2010, 08:35 PM

If memory serves me... Pat also blamed Katrina on Ellen Degeneres. Now THAT is a lot of power he gives to her!

RIGHT !

how amazing is that right

-RNguy

imperfect_cupcake

01-20-2010, 08:42 PM

I thought this article might be good reading for those who love sarcastic wit...

Mark Steel: Consider the risks before you send your cash to Haiti. All of us must wonder if we'll ever get our 50 quid back

The Independent Wednesday, 20 January 2010

Satan's terms and conditions must have got worse in recent times. America 's most prominent TV evangelist, Pat Robertson, announced that the Haiti earthquake was a result of a "pact with the Devil", made when they overthrew slavery 200 years ago. But in the old days a pact with the Devil brought you a life of fame and riches and earthly pleasures. Now you get a few years of life in the world's poorest country and then buried under a pile of rubble.

Maybe the Devil will issue a statement soon, that "due to difficulties arising from the current economic climate, I have found it necessary to temporarily restrict certain privileges to my valuable customers. But you can be certain I will endeavour to maintain my usual high standard of evil, and look forward to satisfying more gluttony than ever once it is financially responsible to do so."

At least Robertson claims a spiritual logic for his sociopathic judgement. Whereas TV presenter Rush Limbaugh complained about the aid effort, saying, "We've already donated to Haiti . It's called income tax." That's the trouble. It's just take take take with some people isn't it?

Or there's the Heritage Foundation, an influential group among American politicians, which declared that "the earthquake offers an opportunity to re-shape Haiti 's long-dysfunctional government and economy."

That's the aid they need, a hand-up not a hand-out. Because it takes a functional economist to see a disaster zone and think, "That's handy." If only the Heritage Foundation could get people out there to rummage through the wreckage searching for survivors, so they could call into an air pocket, "I could rescue you, but that would only make you dependent. So come up with a business plan, young fellow, and in years to come you'll thank me for this. Ta-ra."

To start with you'd think if the Haiti government had their wits about them they'd realise there are a lot of reporters out there with very few provisions, so a couple of branches of Costa Coffee would make a healthy return. But no, they're too dysfunctional to organise it.

The most worrying part of this craziness is it isn't far off the official US strategy. The International Monetary Fund has extended $100m in loans to Haiti for the disaster, and according to The Nation magazine, "These loans came with conditions, including raising prices for electricity, refusing pay increases to all public employees except those making minimum wage, and keeping inflation low." I suppose the idea is not to make things even worse. Give them more than the minimum wage and then you'd have binge-drinking to worry about as well.

This deal was probably arranged by the bank ringing Haiti 's government and saying "Hello is that the Prime Minister? It's Miriam here from the IMF. I'd like a few moments to talk to you about your account, only I notice from our records that you've had a tectonic catastrophe so you'll need to revise your payments."

Several aid organisations have complained about the role the American government is playing. For example, a spokesman from the World Food Programme said: "They organise 200 flights a day, but most are for the US military. Their priority is to secure the country." This may be why Bill Clinton was able to tell business leaders that this is an ideal time to invest in the country, because, "the political risk in Haiti is lower than it has ever been in my lifetime." Who can honestly say they don't consider the political risk before handing out money to a disaster zone? All of us wonder, as we make our donation, whether we'll get our 50 quid back, with a bit of profit for our trouble, otherwise we're being fools to ourselves.

But Clinton had a point. Because at one point Haiti was ruled by President Aristide, who refused to implement all the IMF's demands for privatisation and keeping wages to a minimum. So the US government backed a coup that overthrew him, exiled him and banned his political party, making the place much less risky for business.
This might explain why the American forces are being treated with suspicion, as their priority may not be to provide aid, but to "secure the country." This could also explain the statement by Robert Gates, US defence secretary, who said he couldn't use transport planes to drop supplies in Port-au-Prince as "air drops will simply lead to riots."

Maybe someone should consult an expert on theology, but I'd say there's a chance that if the Devil's still doing pacts, there'll be something way off the Richter scale soon passing right under Wall Street.

iamkeri1

01-21-2010, 12:10 AM

Haiti's government "people" including the president suffered huge trauma along with other Haitians and theya are NOT functioning well at all. They are, indeed, barely functioning. (maybe they never did, I can't comment on that.) Anyway, here is an MSNBC article discussing the government since the quake
Smooches,
Keri

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34917528/ns/world_news-washington_post/

Legendryder

01-21-2010, 12:40 PM

Pat Robertson claims a bunch of stuff. Most of it totally off the charts. But, what great fodder for t-shirts, huh?

suebee

01-21-2010, 02:22 PM

Pat Robertson claims a bunch of stuff. Most of it totally off the charts. But, what great fodder for t-shirts, huh?

"He made a deal with the devil." Sounds like a great epithat if you ask me. :|

Andrew, Jr.

01-22-2010, 12:04 PM

I am not sure of what the actual name of it is, Hope for Haiti or Singing for Haiti or what. I just know that many celebrities have signed up to have their name associated with this. I am hoping that they will contribute more than we can. I think Madonna's $250,000 was piss-poor coming from a multi-billionaire. Come on now.

This is a part of the celebs who I heard were singing, playing, whatever tonight: Bono, Rihanna, Madonna, Justin Timberlake, Jay Z, Beyonce, Anderson Cooper, and Keith Urban.

Is anyone watching? I know it is being shown in the UK as well as in the US.

Namaste,
Andrew
PS: Pat Robertson is a jackass, and you are free to tell him that to his face. I always shoot from the hip.

Soon

01-27-2010, 02:37 PM

YouTube- Alan Grayson Asks The Christian Right About THEIR Pact With The Devil!

Andrew, Jr.

01-27-2010, 02:42 PM

I still cannot believe they are still pulling people out alive from the rubble. That to me is a miracle. God bless them.

Soon

01-27-2010, 02:44 PM

(((Alan Grayson)))

MsDemeanor

01-27-2010, 07:44 PM

The most worrying part of this craziness is it isn't far off the official US strategy. The International Monetary Fund has extended $100m in loans to Haiti for the disaster, and according to The Nation magazine, "These loans came with conditions, including raising prices for electricity, refusing pay increases to all public employees except those making minimum wage, and keeping inflation low." I suppose the idea is not to make things even worse. Give them more than the minimum wage and then you'd have binge-drinking to worry about as well.Here's an update. Surprisingly, it's from the same The Nation article from which the author got the above quote. The IMF is working to make the loan non-repayable, in essence a grant. (The IMF could not quickly provide a grant to Haiti, so it instead provided a loan at zero interest with very lenient repayment terms.)

Today, the IMF put out an announcement (http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/survey/so/2010/NEW012010A.htm) clarifying the terms of its new loan to Haiti--it's "an interest-free loan of $100 million in emergency funds." A spokesman for the IMF emailed me to confirm that "the US$100 million loan does not carry any conditionality. It is an emergency loan aimed at getting the Haitian economy back to function again..." The IMF's managing director Dominique Strauss-Kahn said in a statement that the IMF would immediately work to cancel the entirety of Haiti's debt ($265 million) to the fund:

"The most important thing is that the IMF is now working with all donors to try to delete all the Haitian debt, including our new loan. If we succeed--and I'm sure we will succeed--even this loan will turn out to be finally a grant, because all the debt will have been deleted."
In other words, as the IMF is processing a loan, it is also making a public promise to try to cancel it.

Klein says that this is "unprecedented in my experience and shows that public pressure in moments of disaster can seriously subvert shock doctrine tactics." Neil Watkins, Executive Director of Jubilee USA, likewise hails the IMF's response. "Since the IMF's announcement last week of its intention to provide Haiti with a $100 million loan, Jubilee USA and our partners have been calling for grants and debt cancellation--not new loans--for Haiti. We are pleased that Managing Director Strauss-Kahn has responded to that call."

Watkins and others will continue to follow the issue, holding the IMF to its commitment to debt relief and non-conditionality. They're also pressing the case on Haiti's other outstanding debt. The largest multilateral holders of Haiti's debt are the Inter-American Development Bank ($447 million), the IMF ($165 million, plus $100 million in new lending), the World Bank's International Development Association ($39 million) and the International Fund for Agricultural Development ($13 million). The largest bilateral loans are held by Venezuela ($295 million--hello, Chavez!?) and Taiwan ($92 million).

linkyloo (http://www.thenation.com/blogs/notion/519364/imf_clarifies_terms_of_haiti_s_loan)