Ebola, news and discussion

[MsTinkerbelly]

I wanted to talk about the Ebola virus, but didn't want to take over the news thread.

What is the latest news?

What are your fears?

Are you doing anything different to insure your/your family's safety, just in case of epidemic?

Let's talk!

[MsTinkerbelly]

I am very concerned about this virus based on what i know/don't know about our preparedness for an epidemic.

I know that labs, hospitals, the CDC and the Government working together is a nightmare waiting to happen. The Government is slloooowwww to react and take responcibility, the CDC says States need to be in charge. Do labs have the ability to handle this type of special virus for a large number of blood samples? Do mortuaries know what to do?

We have begun to take precautions here...stockpiling food, water, gloves, masks, sanitizer and other household items, in the event that we need to stay out of public areas as much as possible. If not needed for this, then we have better earthquake supplies! Lol

While i know theorectically we are in much better shape than Africa is to fight the spread, we have seen how easily (sending home Mr. Duncun with a 103* fever, or a careless hospital) ebola is spread. What if he had gone to a sporting event and sneezed on a few people, or used the restroom and body fluids might have mingled on the faucets or door handles?

Or worse yet, what if somebody infected WANTED to infect others as with HIV/AIDS? One person infects 5, who infect 25, who infect?????

[Jesse]

You beat me to the punch. :)

The latest news that I have heard: I awoke this morning to discover that a second person has been diagnosed with Ebola...a nurse who cared for Thomas Duncan.

Not surprising. I think it will get worse before it gets better. I don't think the CDC is telling all they know for fear of "panic from the people."

My fears are that this virus not only takes advantage of human mistakes as most contagious things are apt to do, but that every time it copies itself, it mutates causing it to change the way it behaves. Conceivably, the virus could become contagious via airborne methods if it mutates in just the right way. No one can say what it will do though. "They" say it is unlikely, but "they" have said a lot of things that are not based in truth.

What am I doing differently: I am even more conscientious with regard to hand washing than I was before. Not OCD about it, just thorough and often. I went through my first aid preps and made sure that I have adequate supplies. Other than that just stay informed about what Ebola is, how it is transmitted at this time and how to prevent getting it.

[Rockinonahigh]

Having had much of my family that had been allover the globe in the service of this country I have always been prepared for something to happen no matter if it was a weather related event of some other thing happening that my family should be ready to handle it as much as we can.One of the room's hear has a huge walk in closet we have made into a large pantry,it has a fairly large amount of medical supplies.There several boxes of m.r.e's that we keep adding to as we go along,can goods and plenty of water as well as water purification kits,food and meds for the fur kids,battrie's of all kinds plus chargers for them.Last year my son put in secondary power system's both gas and disel and recently he bought some solar panels to put on the roof.Extra clothes and bedding are also included,for our protection we are fully loaded with various types of weapon's.I realise it sounds like a bit much but after what happen in NOLA after Katrina I figure being safe is priority one.

[MsTinkerbelly]

Having had much of my family that had been allover the globe in the service of this country I have always been prepared for something to happen no matter if it was a weather related event of some other thing happening that my family should be ready to handle it as much as we can.One of the room's hear has a huge walk in closet we have made into a large pantry,it has a fairly large amount of medical supplies.There several boxes of m.r.e's that we keep adding to as we go along,can goods and plenty of water as well as water purification kits,food and meds for the fur kids,battrie's of all kinds plus chargers for them.Last year my son put in secondary power system's both gas and disel and recently he bought some solar panels to put on the roof.Extra clothes and bedding are also included,for our protection we are fully loaded with various types of weapon's.I realise it sounds like a bit much but after what happen in NOLA after Katrina I figure being safe is priority one.

I was on vacation the week of Katrina, and i found myself watching the news nearly 24/7, horrified at what was happening to the people. With ebola i have visions of some of the same problems getting medical care, food and supplies to a large number of people who will be spread out over a huge country. Who will come first in care and support? The rich? Poor and working folk?

Scary

[MsTinkerbelly]

You beat me to the punch. :)

The latest news that I have heard: I awoke this morning to discover that a second person has been diagnosed with Ebola...a nurse who cared for Thomas Duncan.

Not surprising. I think it will get worse before it gets better. I don't think the CDC is telling all they know for fear of "panic from the people."

My fears are that this virus not only takes advantage of human mistakes as most contagious things are apt to do, but that every time it copies itself, it mutates causing it to change the way it behaves. Conceivably, the virus could become

contagious via airborne methods if it mutates in just the right way. No one can say what it will do though. "They" say it is unlikely, but "they" have said a lot of things that are not based in truth.

What am I doing differently: I am even more conscientious with regard to hand washing than I was before. Not OCD about it, just thorough and often. I went

through my first aid preps and made sure that I have adequate supplies. Other than that just stay informed about what Ebola is, how it is transmitted at this time and how to prevent getting it.

I think your fears are well founded, as at a very basic level we have our health care workers (already streched to their limits), tasked with the responcibility of not letting their guard down for one second, and of not letting even one case of ebola slip by them. That, topped with our rapidly approaching flu season (which mimics the symptoms), brings me dread.

[*Anya*]

I don't only have concerns about Ebola but also about Marburg.

Anyone read this news item in CNN? There was nothing about it in the news. As easily as Duncan came into the USA, anyone can. I do not have a lot of faith in the airport "screening".

If someone is not running a temperature when they get here, they could be in the prodomal stage (interval from onset of nonspecific signs and symptoms- to more specific symptoms. During this time, microorganisms grow and multiply, and the infected person may be more capable of spreading disease to others).


"99 in Uganda quarantined after Marburg virus death

From Samson Ntale, for CNN
updated 9:29 AM EDT, Wed October 8, 2014

STORY HIGHLIGHTS
30-year-old male health worker in Uganda dies of Marburg
Marburg is an Ebola-like hemorrhagic fever
99 put into isolation
At least 11 test negative

Kampala, Uganda -- (CNN) -- Three days after a fatal case of Marburg hemorrhagic fever was diagnosed in Uganda, 99 people have been quarantined in four different locations across the East African country, as field epidemiologists and surveillance officers continue to closely monitor all people who got into contact with only victim.

More than 60 health workers form the bulk of people under quarantine after they were identified as having contact with a 30-year old male health worker who died September 28 of Marburg -- an Ebola-like hemorrhagic fever.

"As of today, a total of 99 contacts are under follow up. All the contacts are still in a healthy condition," Dr. Jane Ruth Aceng, director general for health services in Uganda, said in the latest update on the outbreak on Tuesday.

"The National Taskforce through the field epidemiologists and surveillance officers continues to closely monitor all people who got into contact with this confirmed case," she noted.

"However, for those who continue to have signs, tests will be run again after three days," Dr. Aceng said.

Among those who tested negative include are the brother of the deceased; two health workers from a children HIV/AIDS hospital; seven persons from Mpigi Health Center IV; and two relatives of the deceased who participated in the burial.

Marburg virus was first identified in 1967, when 31 people became sick in Germany and Yugoslavia in an outbreak that was eventually traced back to laboratory monkeys imported from Uganda. Since then the virus has appeared sporadically, with just a dozen outbreaks on record, many -- including the current situation -- involving just a single patient.

Marburg virus causes symptoms similar to Ebola, beginning with fever and weakness and often leading to internal or external bleeding, organ failure and death. The death rate runs as high as 80 percent, although it was significantly lower in the initial outbreak when patients were cared for in relatively modern, European hospitals.

The most recent outbreak, also in Uganda, in 2012, killed four out of 15 patients, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. On Tuesday, CDC Director Thomas Frieden pointed to the most recent Marburg case as an example of how a deadly virus could be contained.

"I mention this, because oftentimes in public health, what gets noticed is what happens and it's hard to see what doesn't happen," Frieden continued, noting that there have so far been no additional cases. "That may not make headlines, but it does give us confidence that we can control Ebola in West Africa."


http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/07/health/uganda-marburg-death/

[femmsational]

Normally things don't bother me but this has me terrified.

The CDC isn't educating ANYONE as they should.

The administration doesn't seem to realize the danger that is poses to us if we don't rethink how we are reacting to travel from the countries hit the hardest with this thing. And if there are cases popping up in countries we have open travel with......we have to be honest about the risks.

My main problem is the lack of urgency shown by the CDC. The more they minimize it, the more ignorance is going to be the cause of this spreading. I'm not advocating creating a major scale panic by any means but if the treating team at a hospital doesn't understand how to keep themselves safe, how is the general public supposed to understand.

I'm sure most people would think this is totally stupid but I've dealt with at least 15 outbreaks of Equine Encephalitis. It's spread exactly as the CDC and medical professionals say Ebola is. It is a major problem. The danger point is when it hasn't quite been diagnosed. That horse, or person in this case is contagious and nobody knows about it. There is a strict protocol on how to deal with it after it's diagnosed. A specific way to don protective gear and an even stricter one to take it off. Bleach, disinfectant and quarantine are vital to kill the pathogen. I think if people want to know how to stay safe with Ebola if they are in a zone where it's visable, they should research Encephalitis protocol. As weird as that sounds. :blush:

As for what I'm doing differently?? So far I'm not overly concerned about me or the immediate family around here. It's AJ I'm worried about. He's driving all over the country in a semi-truck having to touch all kinds of things that the general public touches everyday. Less than sanitary to say the least. He's got gloves, germ-x and bleach. And when he has his home time in three weeks I'll be teaching him how to disinfect stuff and to put on, but more importantly, take OFF protective gear.

I know I sound like a crazy person but seriously, if anyone's dealt with an encephalitis outbreak at a major equine center, they'd understand why I sound like a cracked nut.


Sorry, I rambled. :eatinghersheybar:

[Sweet Bliss]

Would you mind explaining to us how to safely remove protective gear? Do you dispose of it? How? Can you wash it?

Handling things others have touched makes my skin crawl. (During these super cootie days) think about it.... fast food ... groceries ... magazines in offices...ewwww.

This is enough to make you get your zombie apocalypse gear ready. :vigil:

[Rockinonahigh]

I was on vacation the week of Katrina, and i found myself watching the news nearly 24/7, horrified at what was happening to the people. With ebola i have visions of some of the same problems getting medical care, food and supplies to a large number of people who will be spread out over a huge country. Who will come first in care and support? The rich? Poor and working folk?

Scary


It was crazy in NOLA at that time,a group from where I worked wen't to cook for the people,I never have cooked so much food in such a short time as I did then.We slept on the floor in sleeping bags,no showers any where,the port-a-potty's were in rows by the hundreds it looked like.It was the people of Louisiana who stepped up to the plate to help the needy while the government drug it's ass.I hope nothing like this happen's in my home town.

[TruTexan]

I think I'm more concerned about foreign travelers bringing that infectious dreaded disease of Ebola over here via air travel. I've studied microbiology, my cousin's wife is a Microbiologist and works at the Lab that tested Duncan's blood sample in Austin, TX. She says not to panic and that the news is making people more fearful than they should be of this disease because it's not airborne. She also says You should be just as concerned about flu virus that has caused many many deaths that IS an airborne virus and that has been known to cause Pandemic outbreaks killing thousands across the Globe.
Me, I'm fearful of it spreading from traveling foreigners lying to airport personnel about being in direct contact with someone that is ill with Ebola and then doing what Duncan did and come to the US.
IT also makes me wonder if he lied in hopes of getting treatment here because he knew he had been in direct contact with someone that was sick with it and was coming here just in case he got sick so he could get better treatment in the states than in Lyberia where he is from, even though he said his reason was for visiting family here. I dunno, all this makes me shiver a bit . I"m not going to full out panic, but I am watching the news here closely in Dallas, I live an hour East of there.

I know it's harsh, but I think travel from African countries should be terminated so as NOT to spread this dreadful disease to other countries. Let the CDC and healthcare workers get those countries educated and in control before travel can resume. Just my .02 and it may be a harsh .02.

[EnchantedNightDweller]

It's just so close to home. I'm in Fort Worth. And I work in a school with a LARGE African population. I hope they can keep it contained. And I hope the government isn't lying to us about the true nature of the epidemic.

[homoe]

Yes Enchanted I also hope our Government isn't lying to us BUT.. I have to say, if someone from our Government told me it was raining outside, I would have to get up and go to the window and check myself! That's just how much I distrust our Government!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Kelt]

Is the CDC minimizing or the media maximizing?

This reminds me very much of the fervor surrounding AIDS in the early 80’s except with this we know what it is and in this country you would pretty much have to try to get it by placing yourself in danger of direct contact with bodily fluids from someone who is displaying symptoms and been in proximity to it. Hemorragic fevers have been around for a long time and transmission in a place that is aware of it and equipped to deal with it would be difficult in large numbers.

Would travel restrictions help? I doubt it, we can only close our borders to a point, air travelers come from all over and they could have started from anywhere.

Would I be careful in areas of likely contact? Yes.

Would I encourage the kind of hysteria that has been seen around leprosy, polio, and HIV? No. I think educated adults in a first world setting can stay out of harms way for the most part.

I believe I have a far greater chance of being killed by a drunk driver or a particularly nasty flu than Ebola. I have face masks and gloves in my regular emergency kit and a good pantry as always. The most difficult part for me right now is separating real information from hype.

I think civil unrest from mis-information is a real possibility though.

[MsTinkerbelly]

I don't only have concerns about Ebola but also about Marburg.

Anyone read this news item in CNN? There was nothing about it in the news. As easily as Duncan came into the USA, anyone can. I do not have a lot of faith in the airport "screening".

If someone is not running a temperature when they get here, they could be in the prodomal stage (interval from onset of nonspecific signs and symptoms- to more specific symptoms. During this time, microorganisms grow and multiply, and the infected person may be more capable of spreading disease to others).


"99 in Uganda quarantined after Marburg virus death

From Samson Ntale, for CNN
updated 9:29 AM EDT, Wed October 8, 2014

STORY HIGHLIGHTS
30-year-old male health worker in Uganda dies of Marburg
Marburg is an Ebola-like hemorrhagic fever
99 put into isolation
At least 11 test negative

Kampala, Uganda -- (CNN) -- Three days after a fatal case of Marburg hemorrhagic fever was diagnosed in Uganda, 99 people have been quarantined in four different locations across the East African country, as field epidemiologists and surveillance officers continue to closely monitor all people who got into contact with only victim.

More than 60 health workers form the bulk of people under quarantine after they were identified as having contact with a 30-year old male health worker who died September 28 of Marburg -- an Ebola-like hemorrhagic fever.

"As of today, a total of 99 contacts are under follow up. All the contacts are still in a healthy condition," Dr. Jane Ruth Aceng, director general for health services in Uganda, said in the latest update on the outbreak on Tuesday.

"The National Taskforce through the field epidemiologists and surveillance officers continues to closely monitor all people who got into contact with this confirmed case," she noted.

"However, for those who continue to have signs, tests will be run again after

three days," Dr. Aceng said.

Among those who tested negative include are the brother of the deceased; two health workers from a children HIV/AIDS hospital; seven persons from Mpigi Health Center IV; and two relatives of the deceased who participated in the burial.

Marburg virus was first identified in 1967, when 31 people became sick in Germany and Yugoslavia in an outbreak that was eventually traced back to laboratory monkeys imported from Uganda. Since then the virus has appeared sporadically, with just a dozen outbreaks on record, many -- including the current situation -- involving just a single patient.

Marburg virus causes symptoms similar to Ebola, beginning with fever and weakness and often leading to internal or external bleeding, organ failure and death. The death rate runs as high as 80 percent, although it was significantly lower in the initial outbreak when patients were cared for in relatively modern, European hospitals.

The most recent outbreak, also in Uganda, in 2012, killed four out of 15 patients, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. On Tuesday, CDC Director Thomas Frieden pointed to the most recent Marburg case as an example of how a deadly virus could be contained.

"I mention this, because oftentimes in public health, what gets noticed is what happens and it's hard to see what doesn't happen," Frieden continued, noting that there have so far been no additional cases. "That may not make headlines, but it does give us confidence that we can control Ebola in West Africa."


http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/07/health/uganda-marburg-death/

Thank you for alerting us to the Marburg virus, and the reminder that we need to act as if there is something we can catch right now!

Wash your hands frequently! Don't touch your face, mouth, eyes etc unless you have clean hands.

If nothing else, the flu will be here soon and you will be prepared!

[MsTinkerbelly]

Yes Enchanted I also hope our Government isn't lying to us BUT.. I have to say, if someone from our Government told me it was raining outside, I would have to get up and go to the window and check myself! That's just how much I distrust our Government!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Amen!

I have so many conspiracy theories about this outbreak of ebola! Fortunately they are probably just that: theories.

[MsTinkerbelly]

It's just so close to home. I'm in Fort Worth. And I work in a school with a LARGE African population. I hope they can keep it contained. And I hope the government isn't lying to us about the true nature of the epidemic.

Are you saying the children in your school live in Africa, or are they African Americans? If they are African Americans, why are you concerned? Sorry, I'm a bit confused.

[SunnySonja]

Is the CDC minimizing or the media maximizing?

This reminds me very much of the fervor surrounding AIDS in the early 80’s except with this we know what it is and in this country you would pretty much have to try to get it by placing yourself in danger of direct contact with bodily fluids from someone who is displaying symptoms and been in proximity to it. Hemorragic fevers have been around for a long time and transmission in a place that is aware of it and equipped to deal with it would be difficult in large numbers.

Would travel restrictions help? I doubt it, we can only close our borders to a point, air travelers come from all over and they could have started from anywhere.

Would I be careful in areas of likely contact? Yes.

Would I encourage the kind of hysteria that has been seen around leprosy, polio, and HIV? No. I think educated adults in a first world setting can stay out of harms way for the most part.

I believe I have a far greater chance of being killed by a drunk driver or a particularly nasty flu than Ebola. I have face masks and gloves in my regular emergency kit and a good pantry as always. The most difficult part for me right now is separating real information from hype.

I think civil unrest from mis-information is a real possibility though.


What Kelt said!

The imminent panic will be the biggest hurdle we will have to face. Actually contracting Ebola is pretty tough to do.

[Kelt]

There is a pretty good outline of the situation in the New York Times updated today (http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/07/31/world/africa/ebola-virus-outbreak-qa.html). It is compiled from CDC, WHO, Doctors Without Borders and others.

[Rockinonahigh]

I carry plenty of hand wipes with me when I am out,many public bathrooms don't have soap or anything else to wash hands with so bringing my own is the best way to keep germs at bay.I no longer shake hands,all my friends agreed on fist bumps or elbow bumps of some sort,people I just meet I just say hello glad to meet ya..if they offer a hand shake I tell them why I would rather not.Yeah,I get some funny looks but I feel better this way.
I agree we should restrict people from countries with Ebola or any other disease from coming hear till it's sure they aren't carrying some bug,plus our people shouldn't be going to places that have a problem as well.I know it puts a cramp in travel plans but safety first will save a lot of of people from being sick.I live three hours from Dallas,where our airport isn't a major hub it dose get people from a lot of places,I would hate to see that mess started hear.My fear is people not telling about where they have been or of they have been around anyone with a communicable disease,if they don't tell the truth Instant quarentean (?) for as long as nessarry(? again,not in my dictionary either).I know that's harsh but if you have, to do it.

[EnchantedNightDweller]

Are you saying the children in your school live in Africa, or are they African Americans? If they are African Americans, why are you concerned? Sorry, I'm a bit confused.

Of course I'm not concerned about my African American brothers and sisters! No, I work with a large population of immigrants from Somalia. They are wonderful people and I would never act any differently around anyone. I hug all my kids and sometimes the parents too. If I die, then I just die. Lol

[MsTinkerbelly]

Of course I'm not concerned about my African American brothers and sisters! No, I work with a large population of immigrants from Somalia. They are wonderful people and I would never act any differently around anyone. I hug all my kids and sometimes the parents too. If I die, then I just die. Lol


I think if your children have contact with persons coming from the effected areas of Africa, then there is reason for concern! Hopefully all of the steps they are taking to make sure infected people don't get into the general population will work. I have my doubts.

If (and we hope it doesn't) this virus spreads, then there shouldn't be any hugging or physical contact as not only would you be at risk, but you could spread the virus to other children or

their families.

I'm not lecturing you, you probably know all of this yourself and will take all precautions needed.

Thank you for clarifying your post, I appreciate it very much. (f)

[EnchantedNightDweller]

I think if someone who is infected enters an environment like an elementary school we are all doomed. It would spread like wildfire. It wouldn't matter if I hugged a kid or not. Just look at the people in the hazmat gear on the news. The nurse in Dallas wearing the hazmat gear caught it anyway. In my opinion, the CDC needs to do more to ensure that these folks that are supposed to be quarantined are not out and about.

[SleepyButch]

I want to talk about a different angle on this thing, the dogs that are testing positive for Ebola. That terrifies me and not in the sense that I'm afraid I'm going to get it from a dog but because of the recent euthanasia of the Spanish pup Excalibur.

The Dallas nurse who has tested positive for the virus has a dog as well. Her dog tested positive. They do not believe that it can be transmitted from dog to human but it definitely can be transmitted from person to dog.

The Mayor of Dallas says they aren't going to euthanize her dog, which I am happy about because if I were her, sick in the hospital, I wouldn't be able to concentrate on healing if I knew my dogs were in danger of being killed. An article today said that her dog is held up in her apartment and being monitored by the humane society.

I fear that this thing will set off such a panic that people will find out where she lives and kill her dog themselves.

Yes, of course I care about the people. I'm an RN myself. I was in Fort Worth the weekend that the first patient got admitted to the hospital. But I'm also an avid animal lover and don't think that dogs should be put down before we even know what is going on with this thing.

[*Anya*]

I hope it does not prove to be true. I have not read the study that said dogs can get it without showing symptoms. I don't know who did the study or what kind of statistics they have but will try to find it. I hope the study is validated before people are reactive.

From USA Today:

Unlike in Spain, Dallas Ebola patient's dog will be saved

Rick Jervis, USA TODAY 7:27 a.m. EDT October 13, 2014

DALLAS — The health care worker who tested positive for Ebola has a dog, but the mayor of Dallas says unlike in a recent Spanish case, the dog will be kept safe for eventual reunion with its owner.

Mayor Mike Rawlings told USA TODAY that the dog remained in the health care worker's apartment when she was hospitalized and will soon be sent to a new location to await its owner's recovery.

There are no plans to euthanize the dog, he said.

"This was a new twist," Rawlings said. "The dog's very important to the patient and we want it to be safe."

There were no immediate details on the name or type of dog.

In patient's neighborhood, business as usual — almost-. Brad Smith, of CG Environmental, will lead the effort to decontaminate the patient's East Dallas apartment. He said he has been alerted that the patient's dog is still inside and will work with members of the local SPCA branch and Dallas animal control officials to remove it from the apartment.

"We'll assist with that," Smith said. "We have the (personal protection equipment) that needs to be worn."

In Spain, the Madrid regional government said last Wednesday that it had euthanized Excalibur, the pet of the Spanish nursing assistant being treated. The dog was sedated to avoid suffering. After death its corpse was "put into a sealed biosecurity device and transferred for incineration at an authorized disposal facility," according to a statement from the Madrid government, Associated Press reported.

Spanish officials said the dog was killed because it posed a risk of transmitting the disease to humans. There is no documented case of Ebola spreading to people from dogs, but at least one major study suggests dogs can get the disease without showing symptoms. Experts say they are uncertain what risk that poses to humans.

The Spanish health ministry said the nursing assistant, Teresa Romero Ramos, is in stable condition and showing signs of "slight improvement," the AP reported Sunday.


http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2014/10/12/dallas-ebola-health-worker-dog/17159727/

[*Anya*]

The study on dogs was done by CDC researchers in March, 2005.

If you have interest in reading the study:

http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/11/3/pdfs/04-0981.pdf

[TruTexan]

I still have a concern about Humans as well as dog transmission. If humans can spread Ebola to Dogs, then what will it take for that transmission to become the reverse and how long could that take. I also wonder if it affects the animal in the same ways it affects humans, can it kill them? If dogs can get it from humans, can they spread it to other dogs? I have tons of questions about this that there seems to be no information on that I can find.

As with the Equine disease that made the vector jump to humans, as well as the swine flu making vector jumps to humans, and bird flu making vector jumps to humans, what's to say this can't be done over time with Ebola making that vector jump from dogs to humans.

It's already been said that humans eating infected fruit bats as a delicacy made an ingestion jump to humans, what's to stop that ingestion jump from dogs to humans in countries where dog meat is a delicacy?
I know it's difficult to talk about this, but I just thought I'd bring it up.

[MsTinkerbelly]

The thought of my dog suffering from Ebola bothers me more than having it myself. I know that thinking is hard for some people to understand, but animal lovers know what i mean.

All of this makes me want to go live in the hills with my family, away from everyone. Over-reaction i know, but frankly I'm getting really nervous.

Thank you for posting the study Anya, now off to read it.

[Jesse]

I read a couple of articles the other day regarding dogs and Ebola. One said dogs can get Ebola but it runs it course with few to little symptoms and doesn't effect them like it does humans and other animals. The other said dogs have antibodies and though they do not contract the virus they are carriers.

Here is an interesting article from the World Health Organization about Ebola. In one section it states that Ebola is transferred from many sorts of animals in the wild.

http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs103/en/

[Jesse]

Just to keep facts straight...the nurse in Dallas who was wearing the hazmat gear was exposed to the Ebola virus due to a suspected "breach in protocol." I am clarifying this because I think it is vitally important that we keep to the facts as much as possible when reporting anything pertaining to Ebola so that we are not spreading undue fear throughout our community.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/13/health/ebola-nurse-how-could-this-happen/index.html


I think if someone who is infected enters an environment like an elementary school we are all doomed. It would spread like wildfire. It wouldn't matter if I hugged a kid or not. Just look at the people in the hazmat gear on the news. The nurse in Dallas wearing the hazmat gear caught it anyway. In my opinion, the CDC needs to do more to ensure that these folks that are supposed to be quarantined are not out and about.

[Trev]

Kansas City patient at risk for Ebola http://www.kctv.com/story/26775426/hospital-officials-kansas-city-patient-at-risk-for-ebola

:|

[TruTexan]

Here is a link to the CDC about animals and dogs and exposure to Ebola and what they know and don't know about transmission of the disease and animals.

http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/transmission/qas-pets.html

[SleepyButch]

I'm watching the news and they are saying the reason the nurse in Dallas was infected was because of a breech in protocol. I imagine she didn't take her protective gear off correctly. We are all human, unfortunately it happens.

The NBC news camera guy who contracted the Ebola virus in Liberia has taken a turn for the better with his health says the doctors who are caring for him. So people do get through it, which is a good thing.

[cricket26]

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/10/12/health/ebola-health-care-workers/index.html?sr=sharebar_facebook

[MsTinkerbelly]

I'm watching the news and they are saying the reason the nurse in Dallas was infected was because of a breech in protocol. I imagine she didn't take her protective gear off correctly. We are all human, unfortunately it happens.

The NBC news camera guy who contracted the Ebola virus in Liberia has taken a turn for the better with his health says the doctors who are caring for him. So people do get through it, which is a good thing.

So far in Africa there is approximately a 50/50 chance of dying; but of course that is with the reported cases. I would hope with western medicine we would have better chances here, but i don't know that for certain.

[purepisces]

I fear that this thing will set off such a panic that people will find out where she lives and kill her dog themselves.
.

I'm happy to say that the dog is in the custody of Dallas Animal Services at an undisclosed location.

[SleepyButch]

Great. I am very happy to hear this. Thanks for posting!

[EnchantedNightDweller]

Just to keep facts straight...the nurse in Dallas who was wearing the hazmat gear was exposed to the Ebola virus due to a suspected "breach in protocol." I am clarifying this because I think it is vitally important that we keep to the facts as much as possible when reporting anything pertaining to Ebola so that we are not spreading undue fear throughout our community.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/13/health/ebola-nurse-how-could-this-happen/index.html

I sincerely hope whoever is feeding CNN the information is right.

[TruTexan]

I sincerely hope whoever is feeding CNN the information is right.

The CDC is in Dallas in large numbers as of midnight last night and they are going over the protocol for caregivers keeping safe and doing more training according to the news tonight from Dallas and from the CDC reports today. The CDC is the the information provider to televised stations across the country with CNN being part of that. Also, the Dallas Dept. Health is heavily involved and giving information televised at the same time during the news broadcasts via telephone. I've watched the news just about everyday since the outbreak.
They don't actually know what caused the transmission but "assume " it was an innocent and accidental breach in protocol. The CDC and the Presbytarian hospital along with the Dallas Health dept are doing extensive research into how this may have happened; they are also trying to calm the fears of other hospital employees and other surrounding hospital employees and healthcare workers in informational meetings as well as to the public.

[*Anya*]

14 October 2014 Last updated at 06:54 ET

The Ebola patient was being treated at St Georg hospital in Leipzig

A United Nations medical worker infected with Ebola has died at a hospital in Germany. Doctors at the hospital in Leipzig said the man, 56, originally from Sudan, died despite receiving experimental drugs to treat the virus.

The outbreak has killed more than 4,000 people since March - mostly in Liberia, Sierra Leone, Guinea and Nigeria.

The World Health Organization says the outbreak is the "the most severe, acute health emergency in modern times".

The man had been working as a UN medical official in Liberia - one of the worst affected countries - when he caught Ebola.

He arrived in Germany last Thursday for treatment and was put into a hermetically sealed ward, accessed through airlock systems.

"Despite intensive medical measures and maximum efforts by the medical team, the 56-year-old UN employee succumbed to the serious infectious disease," a statement from St Georg hospital said.

He was the second member of the UN team in Liberia to die from the virus, the BBC's Jenny Hill in Berlin says.

He was the third Ebola patient to be treated for the deadly virus in Germany after contracting the disease in the outbreak zone in West Africa.

Front-line health workers are at high risk of contamination

The World Health Organisation (WHO) says it is alarmed by the number of health workers who have been exposed to the disease.

The WHO has warned the epidemic threatens the "very survival" of societies and could lead to failed states.

Note: figures have occasionally been revised down as suspected or probable cases are found to be unrelated to Ebola. They do not include one death in the US recorded on 8 October.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29611713

[MsTinkerbelly]

There was an incident yesterday in Los Angeles, where a man with a mask got onto a Metro bus and told the bus driver he had Ebola. When leaving the bus, he told the entire bus he had Ebola and threw his mask on the floor of the bus.

The driver drove back to the yard, told his supervisors, and thus began the isoation of the bus and the driver. They are saying they have the tape from the bus, and if they find this man they will bring charges of making a terrorist threat. What a waste of resources.

Let the crazy begin....

[SleepyButch]

I just read that the Zuckerbergs are donating $25 million to the CDC foundation.


Also the WHO says that west Africa could see up to 10,000 new cases a week within two months. The confirmed that the death rate currently is 70% over there.

If that continues, in an 8 week time, approximately 56,000 people will die. That's a lot of lost lives.



NEW YORK (AP) -- Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg and his wife, Priscilla Chan, are donating $25 million to the CDC Foundation to help address the Ebola epidemic.

The money will be used by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's Ebola response effort in Guinea, Liberia and Sierra Leone and elsewhere in the world where Ebola is a threat, the foundation said Tuesday.

The grant follows a $9 million donation made by Microsoft co-founder Paul Allen last month. Zuckerberg and Chan are making the grant from their fund at the nonprofit Silicon Valley Community Foundation.

Also on Tuesday, the World Health Organization said West Africa could see up to 10,000 new Ebola cases a week within two months and confirmed that the death rate in the current outbreak is now 70 percent. The disease has killed more than 4,000 people, nearly all of them in West Africa. The WHO has called the outbreak "the most severe, acute health emergency seen in modern times."

"The most important step we can take is to stop Ebola at its source. The sooner the world comes together to help West Africa, the safer we all will be," said CDC Director Tom Frieden in a statement.

[cricket26]

hPSo0K4AOoE

[MsTinkerbelly]

hPSo0K4AOoE

They also have someone else that was close to Nina in isolation as they are showing symptoms. This was per CNN, just a few minutes ago.

[TruTexan]

They also have someone else that was close to Nina in isolation as they are showing symptoms. This was per CNN, just a few minutes ago.

The person that was close to Nina Pham, the Dallas Nurse, is her boyfriend, it was on the news today in Dallas. They didn't mention anything about him having symptoms today that I recall. I'll check the Dallas news tonight and go from there.

I"m glad the CDC is there giving extensive training for all the caregivers for PPE protection usage and giving the hospital protocols to follow. That should have happened when Duncan showed up at the hospital and it was reported to the CDC. They dropped the ball from the get go in my .02 opinion.

[firegal]

Folks are all ready slowly starting to over react.... In the emergency medicine world... God help anyone if they cough and have a fever!

Went thru I it with 9-11 twin towers and terrorist stuff and abandoned bags and white powder etc.

It's ok to be carefully and cautious but paranoid makes life harder!

[cricket26]

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=717755041627102

[TruTexan]

They also have someone else that was close to Nina in isolation as they are showing symptoms. This was per CNN, just a few minutes ago.

MsTinkerbelly, the Dallas news stations have NOT reported that Nina Pham's boyfriend, who is the contact person in isolation for 21 days, as showing any symptoms, they have said he is being monitored only.

And the Dallas news stations have NOT reported anything about the claims that CNN has made about the Nursing Union statements made on behalf of anonymous nurses either.

Not sure why it's different reporting, makes me wonder though if someone somewhere isn't making HYPE to scare people.

[EnchantedNightDweller]

CNN is reporting that a second health worker has it. CDC admitting more should have been done.

[*Anya*]

2nd health care worker tests positive for Ebola at Dallas hospital
By Holly Yan, CNN
updated 6:52 AM EDT, Wed October 15, 2014


STORY HIGHLIGHTS
>>Official: Duncan should have been transferred out of Texas immediately
>>Health department has interviewed the patient to find contacts
>>The second health care worker with Ebola reported a fever Tuesday
**Like nurse Tina Pham, the second worker cared for Thomas Eric Duncan**

(CNN) -- A second health care worker at Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital who cared for Thomas Eric Duncan has tested positive for Ebola, health officials said Wednesday -- casting further doubt on the hospital's ability to handle Ebola and protect employees. The worker reported a fever Tuesday and was immediately isolated, health department spokeswoman Carrie Williams said.

The preliminary Ebola test was done late Tuesday at the state public health laboratory in Austin, and the results came back around midnight. A second test will be conducted by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta.

"Health officials have interviewed the latest patient to quickly identify any contacts or potential exposures, and those people will be monitored," the health department said. But the pool of contacts could be small, since Ebola can only be transmitted when an infected person shows symptoms. Less than a day passed between the onset of the worker's symptoms and isolation at the hospital.

An official close to the situation says that in hindsight, Duncan should have been transferred immediately to either Emory University Hospital in Atlanta or Nebraska Medical Center in Omaha. Those hospitals are among only four in the country that have biocontainment units and have been preparing for years to treat a highly infectious disease like Ebola.

"If we knew then what we know now about this hospital's ability to safely care for these patients, then we would have transferred him to Emory or Nebraska," the official told CNN Senior Medical Correspondent Elizabeth Cohen.

"I think there are hospitals that are more than ready, but I think there are some that are not."

The latest infection marks the second-ever transmission of Ebola in the United States. Both stemmed from Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital. Late last week, nurse Tina Pham tested positive for Ebola. She also took care of Duncan, the first person to be diagnosed with Ebola in the United States. Duncan died last week. On Tuesday, Pham said she was doing well. "I am blessed by the support of family and friends, and am blessed to be cared for by the best team of doctors and nurses in the world," she said.

Troubling allegations

Also Tuesday, National Nurses United made troubling allegations about the hospital, claiming "guidelines were constantly changing" and "there were no protocols" about how to deal with the deadly virus." "The protocols that should have been in place in Dallas were not in place, and that those protocols are not in place anywhere in the United States as far as we can tell," NNU Executive Director RoseAnn DeMoro said. "We're deeply alarmed."

Nurses were told to wrap their necks with medical tape when equipment left their necks exposed; they felt unsupported and unprepared, and they received no hands-on training, union co-president Deborah Burger said. A Texas Health Presbyterian spokesman did not respond to the specific allegations, but said patient and employee safety is the hospital's top priority.

Global epidemic
While the Texas hospital deals with its third Ebola patient, the situation in West Africa is getting increasingly dire.

More than 4,000 people have died from Ebola this year in Sierra Leone, Liberia and Guinea.
And it could be up to 10,000 new Ebola cases per week in Guinea, Liberia and Sierra Leone by the end of this year as the outbreak spreads, the World Health Organization warned Tuesday.

U.S. President Barack Obama says he'll reach out directly to heads of state to encourage other countries to do more to fight back.

"There are a number of countries that have capacity that have not yet stepped up," he said. "Those that have stepped up, all of us, are going to have to do more."

CNN's Catherine E. Shoichet and Tina Burnside contributed to this report.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/15/health/texas-ebola-outbreak/

[SleepyButch]

They also have someone else that was close to Nina in isolation as they are showing symptoms. This was per CNN, just a few minutes ago.

I wonder if this was referring to the second nurse who now is positive for the virus. I'm sure these two won't be the only ones who test positive before all is said and done.

Anyone know how soon you will test positive after exposure? Or do you have to start exhibiting symptoms first??

[*Anya*]

I wonder if this was referring to the second nurse who now is positive for the virus. I'm sure these two won't be the only ones who test positive before all is said and done.

Anyone know how soon you will test positive after exposure? Or do you have to start exhibiting symptoms first??

I think this is good information and hope it answers some questions:

Tests for Ebola

A number of tests can be used to diagnose Ebola within a few days of the onset of symptoms, which can detect the virus's genetic material or the presence of antibodies against the pathogen.

The most accurate of these is likely the polymerase chain reaction (PCR) test, a technique that looks for genetic material from the virus and creates enough copies of it that it can be detected, Hirsch said. "PCR is a really definitive test," Hirsch said. It can pick up very small amounts of the virus.

>>>>>However, this test can be negative during the first three days an infected person has symptoms, said Dr. Sandro Cinti, an infectious-disease specialist at the University of Michigan Hospital System/Ann Arbor VA Health System.

"Somebody could be in the hospital for three to five days before a diagnosis [of Ebola] is confirmed," Cinti told Live Science. "The important thing is keeping the patient isolated until you can get to a diagnosis." Meanwhile, doctors will be running tests to rule out other diseases, such as malaria, which can be detected more quickly than Ebola, he said.

>>>>Another test for Ebola looks for antibodies produced by the body's immune system in response to the virus. Known as the antigen-capture enzyme-linked immunosorbent assay (ELISA), this test can take even longer than three days to give a positive result for an infected person, Cinti said. And antibodies can also be detected after a patient recovers, he added.

Once a patient is diagnosed with Ebola, scientists may attempt to isolate the virus -- which is a type of filovirus, known for their filamentlike shape -- by culturing it with living cells and examine it using electron microscopy. But culturing Ebola is very dangerous, and should only be done in a high-biosafety-level lab, Hirsch said. Culturing the virus is not a practical means of diagnosing infection, but may help researchers understand how the virus infects cells and test possible treatments.

So, given the severity of an Ebola infection, why wouldn't you test everybody with the remotest chance of having the disease?

A huge number of people come to the United States from Africa with fevers, Cinti said, and testing all of them for Ebola would drain hospital resources and raise unnecessary panic. "We really have to be clear and get good histories about exposure," he said. "It makes absolutely zero sense to test people who aren't from high-risk areas."

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-doctors-test-for-ebola/

[MsTinkerbelly]

MsTinkerbelly, the Dallas news stations have NOT reported that Nina Pham's boyfriend, who is the contact person in isolation for 21 days, as showing any symptoms, they have said he is being monitored only.

And the Dallas news stations have NOT reported anything about the claims that CNN has made about the Nursing Union statements made on behalf of anonymous nurses either.

Not sure why it's different reporting, makes me wonder though if someone somewhere isn't making HYPE to scare people.

I never said boyfriend. Close to her, worked closely with her, whatever.

Like i said there is someone at the hospital also being monitored.

As far as the nurses union goes, i have no clue.

[MsTinkerbelly]

Folks are all ready slowly starting to over react.... In the emergency medicine world... God help anyone if they cough and have a fever!

Went thru I it with 9-11 twin towers and terrorist stuff and abandoned bags and white powder etc.

It's ok to be carefully and cautious but paranoid makes life harder!

After basically NO REACTION from the United States and the rest of the world during this crisis, I'll take a bit of over-reaction and paranoia. This disease has been around for decades and we did nothing.

No this was not a "United States" problem, but we could have helped stop this before it became our problem. Was this left alone because it was primarily killing poor black people? We involve ourselves in other people's wars and issues all of the time, was it because there was nothing in it for us to gain by helping?

This is going to get a lot worse before it gets better...paranoia? We will see!

[firegal]

After basically NO REACTION from the United States and the rest of the world during this crisis, I'll take a bit of over-reaction and paranoia. This disease has been around for decades and we did nothing.

No this was not a "United States" problem, but we could have helped stop this before it became our problem. Was this left alone because it was primarily killing poor black people? We involve ourselves in other people's wars and issues all of the time, was it because there was nothing in it for us to gain by helping?

This is going to get a lot worse before it gets better...paranoia? We will see!

I'm talking about the public....not government or administration and paranoia doesn't address the problem. A appropriate reaction from all does.When the public is informed it helps any system not get slowed down as they address the problem.

When I say paranoia I mean like the over reaction that some folks did after sept 11 .....calling reporting suspicious folks just because they were were from the Middle East and/or wore a turbin.In the early 80,s there was over reaction from some folks about aids too,not helping injured folks, as folks were educated and informed about what to do and not to do that paranoia was stopped.

I do whole heatedly agree that ALL agency's need to get on this and soon as they should on all matters affecting the health and safety of ALL communities......and country's.

[femmsational]

Would you mind explaining to us how to safely remove protective gear? Do you dispose of it? How? Can you wash it?

Handling things others have touched makes my skin crawl. (During these super cootie days) think about it.... fast food ... groceries ... magazines in offices...ewwww.

This is enough to make you get your zombie apocalypse gear ready. :vigil:


Sorry I missed this.

It's a detailed process that I don't feel comfortable trying to explain on a website. I'll try to tell you the best I can but don't quote me on it or rely on it. The bottom line is you have to remember that the pathogen is alive. So you have to kill it.

When I was dealing with the horses, I had a quarantine area, a room to put on the equipment and a separate room to remove it. We worked in twos at the minimum. I had buckets of bleach that we stepped in when coming out of the quarantine area and buckets to dunk our gloves into. I also had a stack of those thick gauze bandages soaking in a vat of bleach.

So what we did was coming out of the quarantine area we put our bagged feet into the buckets on the floor. We took the bags off our feet as we stepped out. then dunked our gloved hands in the hand bleach buckets. Then we had our buddy hand us a bleach soaked gauze to remove one glove and it was removed by placing the bleached gauze around the top lip of the glove and pulling it inside out. Then it was placed it in a lined bucket. Repeat. Buddy hand another bleached gauze to remove the second glove. Removed it so it was inside out. After all that I had people sprayed down with a 50/50 mix of bleach and water.

To dispose I got an approved container and burned it FAR away from the horses.


There are going to be significant differences in how this needs to be handled such as masks, suits and the importance of not having exposure to skin especially if there are cuts or scrapes. I'm almost positive that what happened with the nurse is that she removed gloves and without thinking reached up to remove her mask and somehow infected herself. Sad.

For the most part the problem won't be with the putting on of the stuff. People who are scared are going to suit up. It's remembering to stay alert while taking it off.


There doesn't need to be panic but there sure as hell needs to be honesty and education.

And if we think we can control this by trusting other people to be honest with us we're crazy.


LOL, I must sound like a crazy person. Sorry.

[Kelt]

I am having a bit of a problem understanding some of the reactions in the US to problems controlling an infectious disease, particularly in hospitals. Obviously, in countries in the midst of the breakout, things are well past dire so I confine this thought to the United States.

When I watched the video interview attached to the story out of Kansas I was glad that the Dr pointed out that 22 thousand people in the US died of the flu last year and yet folks are blasé about even getting inoculated against it. He also put up the thought that if 22 thousand people died of Ebola there would be rioting in the streets. I agree.

When it comes to protocols in hospitals for dealing with this; what is the surprise? Nosocomial diseases are rampant. These are hospital acquired infections (http://www.cdc.gov/hai/surveillance/) (HAI), illness either bacterial or viral you come out with that you didn't have when you went in. They infect 700,000+ per year and kill over 75,000. Eblola is an infectious disease but thankfully much more difficult to transmit than flu, C.diff and others.

Only a couple of hospitals in the US are designed for containment. Just as many hospitals do not have trauma centers, or specialize burn units, etc. Why do we all of a sudden start thinking all hospitals should be equipped for something that has never happened here before? It is clearly demonstrated most cannot handle regular prevention of common bacterial spread.

I am not trying to minimize the danger to healthcare workers and do believe that a ramp up of training and equipment beyond what was previously provided is prudent and urgent at this time, things will likely get worse before they get better. But all of these 'representatives' screaming about how far behind or unprepared we are must have only just now taken off their blinders and are looking for targets to blame.

[MsTinkerbelly]

I am having a bit of a problem understanding some of the reactions in the US to problems controlling an infectious disease, particularly in hospitals. Obviously, in countries in the midst of the breakout, things are well past dire so I confine this thought to the United States.

When I watched the video interview attached to the story out of Kansas I was glad that the Dr pointed out that 22 thousand people in the US died of the flu last year and yet folks are blasé about even getting inoculated against it. He also put up the thought that if 22 thousand people died of Ebola there would be rioting in the streets. I agree.

When it comes to protocols in hospitals for dealing with this; what is the surprise? Nosocomial diseases are rampant. These are hospital acquired infections (http://www.cdc.gov/hai/surveillance/) (HAI), illness either bacterial or viral you come out with that you didn't have

when you went in. They infect 700,000+ per year and kill over 75,000. Eblola is an infectious disease and much more difficult to transmit than flu, C.diff and others.

Only a couple of hospitals in the US are designed for containment. Just as many hospitals do not have trauma centers, or specialize burn units, etc. Why do we all of a sudden start thinking all hospitals should be equipped for

something that has never happened here before? It is clearly demonstrated most cannot handle regular prevention of common bacterial spread.

I am not trying to minimize the danger to healthcare workers and do believe that a ramp up of training and equipment beyond what was previously provided is prudent and urgent at this time, things will likely get worse before they get better. But all of these 'representatives' screaming about how far

behind or unprepared we are must have only just now taken off their blinders and are looking for targets to blame.

Well said Kelt, well said.

[SleepyButch]

I am having a bit of a problem understanding some of the reactions in the US to problems controlling an infectious disease, particularly in hospitals. Obviously, in countries in the midst of the breakout, things are well past dire so I confine this thought to the United States.

When I watched the video interview attached to the story out of Kansas I was glad that the Dr pointed out that 22 thousand people in the US died of the flu last year and yet folks are blasé about even getting inoculated against it. He also put up the thought that if 22 thousand people died of Ebola there would be rioting in the streets. I agree.

When it comes to protocols in hospitals for dealing with this; what is the surprise? Nosocomial diseases are rampant. These are hospital acquired infections (http://www.cdc.gov/hai/surveillance/) (HAI), illness either bacterial or viral you come out with that you didn't have when you went in. They infect 700,000+ per year and kill over 75,000. Eblola is an infectious disease and much more difficult to transmit than flu, C.diff and others.

Only a couple of hospitals in the US are designed forN containment. Just as many hospitals do not have trauma centers, or specialize burn units, etc. Why do we all of a sudden start thinking all hospitals should be equipped for something that has never happened here before? It is clearly demonstrated most cannot handle regular prevention of common bacterial spread.

I am not trying to minimize the danger to healthcare workers and do believe that a ramp up of training and equipment beyond what was previously provided is prudent and urgent at this time, things will likely get worse before they get better. But all of these 'representatives' screaming about how far behind or unprepared we are must have only just now taken off their blinders and are looking for targets to blame.



Nosocomial diseases are usually those infections/viruses contracted by patients in the hospital who are already immunocompromised. This does not related to hospital staff, which I think is what the big deal is over. The surprise is as nursing/healthcare staff, we should know how to prevent ourselves from being infected with anything, whether that be ebola, HIV, tuberculosis, etc. Unfortunately, as I mentioned in a previous post, we are all human and as humans we make errors. Now you have nurses who have been infected, taking care of patients in a hospital. To me that is a huge deal. I'm not so much worried about the person that they encounter in the grocery store.

While every hospital doesn't have to be prepared for this type of thing, what happens when a person comes into any ole hospital with symptoms that may not scream ebola or do for that matter. What's that hospital to do? They all need to be prepared for any type of infectious disease scare in my opinion, which to me means protective garb and a negative pressure room. Also they should have yearly training as part of continuing education, which we all need to have anyway. Unfortunately though, hospitals are busy and short staffed so this kind of training doesn't occur.


I agree that we shouldn't be pointing fingers. We just need to get everyone on the same page and try to contain it as much as possible and save as many people as they can.

[Kelt]

Nosocomial diseases are usually those infections/viruses contracted by patients in the hospital who are already immunocompromised. This does not related to hospital staff, which I think is what the big deal is over. The surprise is as nursing/healthcare staff, we should know how to prevent ourselves from being infected with anything, whether that be ebola, HIV, tuberculosis, etc. Unfortunately, as I mentioned in a previous post, we are all human and as humans we make errors. Now you have nurses who have been infected, taking care of patients in a hospital. To me that is a huge deal. I'm not so much worried about the person that they encounter in the grocery store.

While every hospital doesn't have to be prepared for this type of thing, what happens when a person comes into any ole hospital with symptoms that may not scream ebola or do for that matter. What's that hospital to do? They all need to be prepared for any type of infectious disease scare in my opinion, which to me means protective garb and a negative pressure room. Also they should have yearly training as part of continuing education, which we all need to have anyway. Unfortunately though, hospitals are busy and short staffed so this kind of training doesn't occur.


I agree that we shouldn't be pointing fingers. We just need to get everyone on the same page and try to contain it as much as possible and save as many people as they can.

I couldn't agree more and should clarify that I was not talking about healthcare staff individuals. My thoughts are more about admin policies that allow for training and basic equipment to be inadequate for regular encounters with the sick public. The reactions are as though it was somehow new.

Anytime you put a lot of sick people in a small space things are going to spread. This time of year especially lots of folks will present with fever and who knows where they came from? I don't have the answers but also wish everyone could stop looking for targets and and coordinate getting sensible precautions in place. A possible positive outcome would be that facilities will have the needed supplies and training going forward beyond whatever this outbreak brings.

A surprise to me or maybe I'm misunderstanding... I though all hospitals in the US would have at minimum PPE and a negative pressure room. Is that not true?

Note; my background is not medical at all. I come from the biohazard/HAZWOPER side of "keeping tiny bugs out".

[SleepyButch]

I couldn't agree more and should clarify that I was not talking about healthcare staff individuals. My thoughts are more about admin policies that allow for training and basic equipment to be inadequate for regular encounters with the sick public. The reactions are as though it was somehow new.

Anytime you put a lot of sick people in a small space things are going to spread. This time of year especially lots of folks will present with fever and who knows where they came from? I don't have the answers but also wish everyone could stop looking for targets and and coordinate getting sensible precautions in place. A possible positive outcome would be that facilities will have the needed supplies and training going forward beyond whatever this outbreak brings.

A surprise to me or maybe I'm misunderstanding... I though all hospitals in the US would have at minimum PPE and a negative pressure room. Is that not true?

Note; my background is not medical at all. I come from the biohazard/HAZWOPER side of "keeping tiny bugs out".

They should all have some type of PPE but I doubt if some of the smaller hospitals have what they would need to fully garb up for something like this. I could be wrong though. Does anyone work in a smaller hospital or rural hospital?

[GeorgiaMa'am]

A surprise to me or maybe I'm misunderstanding... I though all hospitals in the US would have at minimum PPE and a negative pressure room. Is that not true?

2nd health care worker tests positive for Ebola at Dallas hospital
By Holly Yan, CNN
updated 6:52 AM EDT, Wed October 15, 2014

. . .

An official close to the situation says that in hindsight, Duncan should have been transferred immediately to either Emory University Hospital in Atlanta or Nebraska Medical Center in Omaha. Those hospitals are among only four in the country that have biocontainment units and have been preparing for years to treat a highly infectious disease like Ebola.



There's clearly some discrepancy in the amount and quality of PPE and other precautions that most hospitals have available to them, and that a few specialized hospitals have. From several comments, it also appears that the flu is more communicable and deadlier than Ebola; so, if it has been important all along to have better precautions for the flu, why don't all U.S. hospitals already have them? Something is just not adding up here, and that's what has me concerned the most. I don't want to go down the path of paranoia, but I feel like something is being withheld from us about the nature and severity of Ebola.

[Sweet Bliss]

The second worker got on a Frontier flight I just heard on the news. She is ill.

Geezus fricking crap. Who is in charge of this country's health? Anybody?

WTF? STERILIZED THE PLANE TWICE.....
Can't sterlize all the peeps on the damnable plane.

Or the hundreds of peeps they came in contact with for all this time.

Anybody read "The Stand" by S. King?

[TruTexan]

FINALLY, the Dallas News stations are now reporting about the 2nd Nurse, Ms. Vinson, that treated Duncan in his early stages of illness, is confirmed to have Ebola, and is on a flight to Atlanta to go to isolation there at the Biohazard Hospital containment center. What bothers me about this? This woman knew she was exposed to Ebola and was self monitoring for signs of Ebola, and while at home on paid leave, she took a flight out of state and then returned a few days later and immediately a few days later or so had to go to the hospital for signs of Ebola. There are clear and cut guidelines set at the CDC that they should NOT be allowed to travel like this and that it was YET ANOTHER MISTAKE ALLOWED. My other questions are that there are 75 to 76 total people that are at home and being monitored or are self monitored that were in contact with the Ebola patient Duncan. When are they going to tell the truth about the fuckups they are allowing to have happen? When are they going to stop this shit? How many more people need to become infected before they actually get their shit together about stopping the spread of this Dreaded disease?
How many more lives need to be taken? And why hasn't the world countries come together to stop the spread of Ebola in Africa?
I think there is a lot more to this story than we are being told.

The nurses Union in Dallas Texas is claiming that the hospital did not provide adequate PPE for the caregivers and also didn't train them as they should have been trained to handle the biohazard waste products of an Ebola patient. that nurses have anonymously come forward to have the Union speak out against the hospital for their lack of training and PPE issues. they are also claiming that there were biowaste such as soiled laundry and items that were piled to the ceiling in the isolation area because no one knew what to do with them.

How can a hospital allow this sorta thing to happen when they knew this paitient had Ebola or was at the least , suspected to have it? Are they just stupid asses running this hospital? I think they aren't equipped or trained to handle this type of disease obviously. And it pisses me off they haven't been prepared to handle it, knowing that there is practically an epidemic going on in Africa and travel is involved via airlines to all sorts of countries.Talk about population control.........wow just wow.

[Trev]

http://www.kctv.com/story/26789321/obama-more-effort-needed-to-fight-ebola-in-us-abroad

[SleepyButch]

So I got this directly from the CDC website. I was interested to see what they said about how this can be transmitted, which it looks like it has to be through direct contact with bodily fluids to broken skin or mucous membranes.

However, I did also look up how long it lives outside the body and have included that below as well. If dried on a surface such a door knob it can live for several hours. So I suppose if the traveling nurse on the plane got her bodily fluids on the tray table or something like that and someone came along and touched it afterwards within that few hour time span, they could become exposed. Supposedly hospital-grade disinfectants can kill it like household bleach. I'm sure everything doesn't get wiped off in the plane unfortunately.



Anyway, here it is:

When an infection does occur in humans, the virus can be spread in several ways to others. Ebola is spread through direct contact (through broken skin or mucous membranes in, for example, the eyes, nose, or mouth) with


•blood or body fluids (including but not limited to urine, saliva, sweat, feces, vomit, breast milk, and semen) of a person who is sick with Ebola

•objects (like needles and syringes) that have been contaminated with the virus

•infected animals

•Ebola is not spread through the air or by water, or in general, by food.

However, in Africa, Ebola may be spread as a result of handling bushmeat (wild animals hunted for food) and contact with infected bats. There is no evidence that mosquitos or other insects can transmit Ebola virus. Only mammals (for example, humans, bats, monkeys, and apes) have shown the ability to become infected with and spread Ebola virus.

Healthcare providers caring for Ebola patients and the family and friends in close contact with Ebola patients are at the highest risk of getting sick because they may come in contact with infected blood or body fluids of sick patients.

During outbreaks of Ebola, the disease can spread quickly within healthcare settings (such as a clinic or hospital). Exposure to Ebola can occur in healthcare settings where hospital staff are not wearing appropriate protective equipment, including masks, gowns, and gloves and eye protection.

Dedicated medical equipment (preferable disposable, when possible) should be used by healthcare personnel providing patient care. Proper cleaning and disposal of instruments, such as needles and syringes, is also important. If instruments are not disposable, they must be sterilized before being used again. Without adequate sterilization of the instruments, virus transmission can continue and amplify an outbreak.

Once someone recovers from Ebola, they can no longer spread the virus. However, Ebola virus has been found in semen for up to 3 months. Abstinence from sex (including oral sex) is recommended for at least 3 months. If abstinence is not possible, condoms may help prevent the spread of disease.


How long does Ebola live outside the body?

Ebola is killed with hospital-grade disinfectants (such as household bleach). Ebola on dried on surfaces such as doorknobs and countertops can survive for several hours; however, virus in body fluids (such as blood) can survive up to several days at room temperature.

[SleepyButch]

How can a hospital allow this sorta thing to happen when they knew this paitient had Ebola or was at the least , suspected to have it? Are they just stupid asses running this hospital? I think they aren't equipped or trained to handle this type of disease obviously. And it pisses me off they haven't been prepared to handle it, knowing that there is practically an epidemic going on in Africa and travel is involved via airlines to all sorts of countries.Talk about population control.........wow just wow.

Hospitals get people with infectious diseases every day. Someone wrote earlier that more people die from the flu. Should all of those nurses who care for those patients be quarantined?

Why would a hospital in Dallas prepare for an Ebola virus outbreak? Africa is a long way from Dallas. I do also believe that the Ebola virus has been around for a significant amount of time. According to the WHO, there were two simultaneous outbreaks in 1976. That was 38 years ago.

The hospital with the outbreak was just the unlucky facility who was chosen by patient zero (Duncan). They probably wish that the he never showed up at their facility. This could be happening anywhere at any hospital. The hospital didn't make the nurse go on a commercial flight. That was her own mistake. I don't always agree with hospital administration but I don't think any of this makes them stupid asses.

Yes, it is the hospitals responsibility to train all of their staff on how to handle infectious diseases in general. For all we know, they do this there but if you are trained on something four months ago (just an example) and it doesn't come up, you tend to forget or you tend to get careless. Hell you can still be careless. If someone is vomiting on your protective gear and you take it off, you might get some bodily fluid on you. It happens. Nurses contract HIV/AIDs in this same manner. They contract all types of diseases this way. Not all facilities can have what the CDC has with the showers and air tight rooms and such. It's unfortunate, because they should have this but that's extremely costly.

I truly believe there will be others infected and probably in the Dallas area at that hospital. It's a virus. It spreads. People do the best that they can. I'm just not going to live my life in fear at this point and blame people when I'm not the one having to go through the ordeal. I also think that when you have an abundance of people reporting on a subject, facts can get misconstrued. Keep that in mind.

Anyway, just my opinion....

[MsTinkerbelly]

For a moment i got caught-up in the statistic of 22,000 people a year dying from flu, but i think in the case of Ebola we might be comparing apples to oranges.

With the flu, most people get a flu shot and they get through the season fine, some people get the flu With/without flu shots and they come through just fine. The people most likely to die are the very young, the very old and the immune compromised. With Ebola, there is no vaccine; Young, old, sick and well...all are at the same risk of 50-90% DEATH rate.

The flu means you get sick, and in most cases you are home with family/without family, you recover and life goes on. With Ebola, you are isolated, your house is decontaminated, your pets are isolated...you will probably die unless you are one of the lucky ones, especially if there is an epidemic and there are not enough people to treat the sick.

No, do not be fooled into thinking this is the same as the flu...not yet time for panic, but I'm scared. Why isn't our Government ready?

[homoe]

WHAT was this doctor thinking????????

H E L L O you were suppose to be in quarantine!!!

I don't know what I'm more disgusted with, her careless disregard OR the lame lame apology, if you can even call it that, once she was busted!

[SleepyButch]

For a moment i got caught-up in the statistic of 22,000 people a year dying from flu, but i think in the case of Ebola we might be comparing apples to oranges.

With the flu, most people get a flu shot and they get through the season fine, some people get the flu With/without flu shots and they come through just fine. The people most likely to die are the very young, the very old and the immune compromised. With Ebola, there is no vaccine; Young, old, sick and well...all are at the same risk of 50-90% DEATH rate.

The flu means you get sick, and in most cases you are home with family/without family, you recover and life goes on. With Ebola, you are isolated, your house is decontaminated, your pets are isolated...you will probably die unless you are one of the lucky ones, especially if there is an epidemic and there are not enough people to treat the sick.

No, do not be fooled into thinking this is the same as the flu...not yet time for panic, but I'm scared. Why isn't our Government ready?


I think it's promising that people are surviving. I think it's promising that they gave the first nurse in Dallas the blood of the doctor who survived so she could get his antibodies. She is improving. Whether that is from his blood or her own immune system, who knows. It could be both. Hopefully it will be only a matter of time before the powers at be whoever that may be are able to get a vaccine for this as well.

On Monday, a clinical trial on humans began for the Canadian-developed Ebola vaccine. We'll see how that goes.

It will be interesting to see what happens here in the next few days.

[traumaqueen]

The hospital with the outbreak was just the unlucky facility who was chosen by patient zero (Duncan). They probably wish that the he never showed up at their facility. This could be happening anywhere at any hospital. The hospital didn't make the nurse go on a commercial flight. That was her own mistake. I don't always agree with hospital administration but I don't think any of this makes them stupid asses.

Yes, it is the hospitals responsibility to train all of their staff on how to handle infectious diseases in general. For all we know, they do this there but if you are trained on something four months ago (just an example) and it doesn't come up, you tend to forget or you tend to get careless. Hell you can still be careless. If someone is vomiting on your protective gear and you take it off, you might get some bodily fluid on you. It happens. Nurses contract HIV/AIDs in this same manner. They contract all types of diseases this way. Not all facilities can have what the CDC has with the showers and air tight rooms and such. It's unfortunate, because they should have this but that's extremely costly.


Nailed it... protocols and systems do not withstand the failure of a person to exercise good judgement. A breach in a PPE protocol can be understandable due to poor or lapsed training... repeated training and extensive measures can be taken to make up for that. Hopping on a commercial flight as a medical professional undergoing self monitoring/reporting - is poor judgement. Massive difference.

[MsTinkerbelly]

WHAT was this doctor thinking????????

H E L L O you were suppose to be in quarantine!!!

I don't know what I'm more disgusted with, her careless disregard OR the lame lame apology, if you can even call it that, once she was busted!

The idiot factor is as always the unknown piece of the puzzle. Sick people who don't get care (we are a society that goes to work sick) and people who think the rules don't apply to them...these will be contributing factors to the spread, even if the hospitals are prepared for the influx of patients.

[cricket26]

all the comments are great and because we are all half way intelligent people we know this all comes down to the $$

the nurses in this situation are heroes and for them to request working conditions necessary to preserve their own lives as well as their patients lives is not too much to ask...no matter what the cost...

there will be a meeting tomorrow at 2pm to discuss a possible declaration of emergency by governor rick perry which may bring much needed federal funds

[MsTinkerbelly]

I think it's promising that people are surviving. I think it's promising that they gave the first nurse in Dallas the blood of the doctor who survived so she could get his antibodies. She is improving. Whether that is from his blood or her own immune system, who knows. It could be both. Hopefully it will be only a matter of time before the powers at be whoever that may be are able to get a vaccine for this as well.

On Monday, a clinical trial on humans began for the Canadian-developed Ebola vaccine. We'll see how that goes.

It will be interesting to see what happens here in the next few days.

Yes, with better care in the west there is a better chance of survival, IF this does not get too big to contain. With the need for isolation and decontamination, we could see this become too big, very fast.

[Kelt]

For a moment i got caught-up in the statistic of 22,000 people a year dying from flu, but i think in the case of Ebola we might be comparing apples to oranges.

With the flu, most people get a flu shot and they get through the season fine, some people get the flu With/without flu shots and they come through just fine. The people most likely to die are the very young, the very old and the immune compromised. With Ebola, there is no vaccine; Young, old, sick and well...all are at the same risk of 50-90% DEATH rate.

The flu means you get sick, and in most cases you are home with family/without family, you recover and life goes on. With Ebola, you are isolated, your house is decontaminated, your pets are isolated...you will probably die unless you are one of the lucky ones, especially if there is an epidemic and there are not enough people to treat the sick.

No, do not be fooled into thinking this is the same as the flu...not yet time for panic, but I'm scared. Why isn't our Government ready?

I was the one who referenced the 22,000 flu deaths. If you re-read what I said, I was not comparing the two diseases at all, I was comparing the level of media hysteria per death in the US. Incidentally, those 22,000 did not experience a peaceful recovery at home with loved ones. They died. The death rate between the two diseases is very different and ebola is clearly more lethal if contracted but dead is still dead.

I think the why and how of hospital preparation as it is (not idealized) was well addressed by SleapyButch.

I am having a bit of a problem understanding some of the reactions in the US to problems controlling an infectious disease...
<snip>
When I watched the video interview attached to the story out of Kansas I was glad that the Dr pointed out that 22 thousand people in the US died of the flu last year and yet folks are blasé about even getting inoculated against it. He also put up the thought that if 22 thousand people died of Ebola there would be rioting in the streets. I agree.

[Jesse]

Check this new website out!
"EbolaDeeply.org is a nonprofit “impact journalism” project that aims to provide better information on the current Ebola outbreak to Western media, while providing health information and alerts to rural African communities. It was designed to give perspective on the outbreak by aggregating news, data, analysis and expert opinion. EbolaDeeply was founded by CNN anchorwoman Isha Sesay (http://www.cnn.com/CNN/anchors_reporters/sesay.isha.html), who is from Sierra Leone, and Lara Setrakian, founder of NewsDeeply (http://www.newsdeeply.com/) and SyriaDeeply (http://www.syriadeeply.org/). "

http://www.eboladeeply.org/

[MsTinkerbelly]

I was the one who referenced the 22,000 flu deaths. If you re-read what I said, I was not comparing the two diseases at all, I was comparing the level of media hysteria per death in the US. Incidentally, those 22,000 did not experience a peaceful recovery at home with loved ones. They died. The death rate between the two diseases is very different and ebola is clearly more lethal if contracted but dead is still dead.

I think the why and how of hospital preparation as it is (not idealized) was well addressed by SleapyButch.

I did mention that the 22,000 died, not sure where you got peaceful recovery? I pointed out that most people get the flu and can handle it at home. I compared it to Ebola where everyone needs medical care, probably as an inpatient in a hospital. I still think that the hysteria stems from a disease we (general population) know little about, and IMO we are not currently equipped to handle in mass quantities.

I compared the flu to Ebola in an effort to show why I (read I) was more concerned/scared regarding a possible Ebola outbreak.

[Kelt]

Check this new website out!
"EbolaDeeply.org is a nonprofit “impact journalism” project that aims to provide better information on the current Ebola outbreak to Western media, while providing health information and alerts to rural African communities. It was designed to give perspective on the outbreak by aggregating news, data, analysis and expert opinion. EbolaDeeply was founded by CNN anchorwoman Isha Sesay (http://www.cnn.com/CNN/anchors_reporters/sesay.isha.html), who is from Sierra Leone, and Lara Setrakian, founder of NewsDeeply (http://www.newsdeeply.com/) and SyriaDeeply (http://www.syriadeeply.org/). "

http://www.eboladeeply.org/

Thanks Jesse, this looks promising, the executive summary seems quite thorough.

Thanks for the source links too, their outbound links seem to be credible as well.

[Jesse]

You're welcome, Kelt. Hopefully, we will hear some semblance of truth from this site. I am over the media drama.

Thanks Jesse, this looks promising, the executive summary seems quite thorough.

Thanks for the source links too, their outbound links seem to be credible as well.

[firegal]

This is an example of the russian roulette that is played and has been for a very long time.

The risk benefit... all based on money/cost.

If there was a small pox outbreak in any state there isnt enough vaccines available {again decisions based on $] to give to all that would possibly be exposed, they would prioritize..... how ever they decide.

This is an example of one where there is a vaccine and because it hasnt been a issue [in there eyes] they dont ensure there is enough on hand due to cost and shelf life and storage.

[TruTexan]

The latest in Dallas news reports that there will be a Congressional hearing set to investigate he how's and why's of the issues with the spread of Ebola with the Hospital Person in charge and the CDC's Dr. Friedman.

They also transported the newest nurse that's become ill with Ebola to Atlanta to be treated there in a biocontainment hospital that's already been in place. But the thing is, she called the CDC with a low grade fever the day she flew, she had 99.5 degree fever, and asked if she could still fly or not, and someone from the CDC told her she could. This will be investigated as well. She should NOT have flown knowing the protocol for a highly contagious disease exposure that she had, she just should have stayed home, so she not only exposed her family, friends, and fiance, but the innocent other people on the same return flight back to Dallas and on to other areas from there.
There was over 100 people she exposed herself to when she flew, and some have called the CDC and have stated to News here in Dallas that they haven't gotten an answer yet, and there is at least 1 child that was exposed on that flight and now the child and their family are in quarantine. There are several others in the Belton Tx ISD that have been on that flight and the school district there have told the parents to keep their kids home for 21 days, as well as some employers telling employees not to come into work to remain off until the 21 days of waiting period is over for watching for signs and symptoms of Ebola. It seems to me that the CDC dropped the ball when someone there told the nurse she could still fly and so the list continues to grow for exposure. They decontaminated the plane supposedly, a couple of times, but they still used it for several other flights afterwards until the CDC and Frontier Airlines worked together to Ground that plane.

There will be discussion tonight about a decision to send the 1st nurse ill with Ebola to Atlanta as well. They will make that decision known by morning is what the news has said.

A Judge in Dallas is going to get a court to order for a no fly, no public transportation and limit public venues for those remainders of individuals in Dallas and surrounding areas to stop the spread through limited contact with the public as much as possible.
Governor Rick Perry is supposed to Declare a State of Emergency for Texas because of the Ebola outbreak. I haven't seen anything on the news from him though, we'll see tomorrow.

An interview over the phone with the National Union Rep. for Nursing claims that nurses from Texas Presbytarian Hospital, where Duncan 1st went and returned to with Ebola diagnosis the 2nd time, are saying Nurses have told them that there were NO PROTOCOLS, that nurses were left to figure out for themselves how to treat this patient and they had limited PPE type equipment in order to treat this patient with the deadly disease. They've also reported that nurses that had taken care of him, were told to resume other nursing duties with patients and have exposed those patients to Ebola because they(nurses) themselves were exposed to it. They also stated that Duncan was left in a room with other patients while he was sick, for around 5 hours before they even decided to isolate him.

I don't take any of this lightly, but I sure as heck don't think these nurses would be lying about all this to get attention. I think they are trying to anonymously whistle blow this situation and that it's going to come out in the end.

I feel for everyone involved that's been exposed and I wish them well and pray that they don't succumb to this deadly dreaded disease.
I pray for the nursing staff that's tested positive as well.

I don't think this will be over for while , there are too many that have been exposed already: more than 100 on the planes from Vinson's flight to Ohio and to Texas, more than 75 hospital personnel with Duncan and both Nurses that are out self monitoring on paid leave from the hospital, 48 in direct contact with Duncan, 1 direct contact(pham's boyfriend) from Pham, 3 direct contacts with Vinsonin Cleveland(her fiance and family members/friends).
This is just too much exposure for it to be over before it even starts to get bad. The CDC is trying to track down all passengers on the flights she took and has asked that if any of them took certain flights, to please come forward and call the CDC.

I think it was a wise decision on CDC's part to send Vinson to Atlanta to be treated there because certainly shows that the hospital in Dallas doesn't know what it's doing and wants to say it does, yet exposure happened and they haven't contained it. It is wise to limit personnel to treat Ebola patients in a facility suited for taking care of Ebola patients.


ETA .... this is one HUGE chain reaction of a failed system and the outcome is only going to get worse before it gets better.

[EnchantedNightDweller]

As I listen to spokesman from the CDC and government reassure us that it is extremely difficult to contract Ebola, I'm watching people in Hazmat suits cleaning out apartments, schools being shut down, a plane being disinfected, and states of emergency being declared in Dallas County. Is it just me or do these official's words and actions not match?

[DapperButch]

They also transported the newest nurse that's become ill with Ebola to Atlanta to be treated there in a biocontainment hospital that's already been in place. But the thing is, she called the CDC with a low grade fever the day she flew, she had 99.5 degree fever, and asked if she could still fly or not, and someone from the CDC told her she could.

I just wanted to highlight this, as I think it is significant. I saw this last night on Maddow and actually popped on the thread to pass along this information.

[*Anya*]

Many American hospitals have improperly trained their staffs to deal with Ebola patients because they were following federal guidelines that were too lax, infection control experts said on Wednesday.

Federal health officials effectively acknowledged the problems with their procedures for protecting health care workers by abruptly changing them. At 8 p.m. Tuesday, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention issued stricter guidelines for American hospitals with Ebola patients.

They are now closer to the procedures of Doctors Without Borders, which has decades of experience in fighting Ebola in Africa. In issuing the new guidelines, the C.D.C. acknowledged that its experts had learned by working alongside that medical charity.

The agency’s new voluntary guidelines include full-body suits covering the head and neck, supervision of the risky process of taking off protective gear, and the use of hand disinfectant as each item is removed.

Sean G. Kaufman, who oversaw infection control at Emory University Hospital while it treated Dr. Kent Brantly and Nancy Writebol, the first two American Ebola patients, called the earlier C.D.C. guidelines “absolutely irresponsible and dead wrong.”


Speaking by phone from Liberia, where he was training workers for Samaritan’s Purse, the medical charity that Dr. Brantly and Ms. Writebol worked for, Mr. Kaufman said he had warned the agency as recently as a week ago that its guidelines were lax.

“They kind of blew me off,” he said. “I’m happy to see they’re changing them, but it’s late.”

Melissa Brower, a C.D.C. spokeswoman, said the agency was “taking a hard look at our recommendations and may be making changes.”

Dr. Thomas R. Frieden, the director of the C.D.C., expressed regret about his agency’s initial response to the first Ebola case in Dallas.

“In retrospect, with 20/20 hindsight,” he said a few hours before his agency tightened its guidelines, “we could have sent a more robust hospital infection control team and been more hands-on with the hospital from Day 1.”

Some major hospitals, aware of the inadequacy of the older C.D.C. guidelines, have followed more stringent standards in training their staff. But many — including Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital in Dallas, where two nurses were infected by a dying patient — have not.

The Doctors Without Borders guidelines are even stricter than the new C.D.C. directives in that they require full coverage of the torso, head and legs with fabrics that blood or vomit cannot soak through, along with rubber aprons, goggles or face shields, sealed wrists and rubber boots. Doctors and nurses wear two sets of gloves, including long outer ones that strap or are taped to the gown; janitors wear three sets.

As they undress in choreographed steps, Doctors Without Borders workers wash their hands with chlorine solution eight times and are sprayed with a chlorine mist. Most important, all personnel disrobe only under the eyes of a supervisor whose job is to prevent even a single misstep.

Risky procedures like blood sampling are kept to a minimum.

“I’ve seen the C.D.C. poster,” said a Doctors Without Borders representative who spoke on the condition of anonymity because she did not want to be named criticizing the agency, and who was referring to C.D.C. guidelines before they were changed on Tuesday. “It doesn’t say anywhere that it’s for Ebola. I was surprised that it was only one set of gloves, and the rest bare hands. It seems to be for general cases of infectious disease.”

National Nurses United, the country’s largest union and professional association of nurses, with 185,000 members, criticized the C.D.C. on Wednesday for taking so long. Worse, the union said, many hospitals ignored even the lax guidelines because they were voluntary.

For example, the union said, nurses at the Texas hospital complained that the protective gear the hospital issued left their necks exposed — and they were told to wrap their necks with medical tape.

“They were learning infection control on the fly,” said DeAnn McEwen, chief of infection control for the union. “That’s no substitute for planning.”

Nurses United called for federal and state laws making C.D.C. guidelines mandatory.

Changes to Ebola Protection Worn by U.S. Hospital Workers
Officials from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention announced changes Tuesday to existing federal guidelines for the gear worn by hospital workers caring for patients with Ebola. Some hospitals already had more stringent protections in place.

While Dr. Frieden has been criticized for arguing that almost any American hospital can handle Ebola patients and critics have demanded that all Ebola patients go to special isolation units, that debate is somewhat misguided, experts said.

The isolation units — which have filtered air, double doors and negative pressure — were built to prevent the spread of airborne diseases like SARS and tuberculosis.

The greater Ebola danger is large amounts of blood, vomit or diarrhea splashing caregivers. That is prevented by training, proper protective gear, rigorous cleaning and close supervision, specialists said.

Ebola victims resemble cholera victims in some ways.

In Bangladesh, which trains doctors all over the world in cholera treatment, hospitals do not place cholera patients on padded mattresses with bedpans. They usually lie on rubber sheets stretched across bed frames with holes cut so diarrhea can run out into buckets.

Doctors Without Borders personnel place buckets or chamber pots under patients. Its protocols require cleaning pools of fluid not by mopping, but by spraying them with chlorine and then throwing large absorbent cloths over them. Like doctors, janitors work in pairs, watching over each other.

All infected materials are immediately burned, sometimes in a field right behind the hospital. Reusable rubber items like aprons and boots are cleaned with detergent and bleach. One important Doctors Without Borders step — chlorine sprays — could be dangerous inside hospitals because it would make corridors slippery.

A step considered vital — which the new C.D.C. guidelines now include — is having a sharp-eyed “site supervisor” constantly watching for errors.

“The buddy system works for getting dressed, but not for getting undressed,” said Dr. William Fisher II, a critical care specialist from the University of North Carolina who worked in a Doctors Without Borders center in Guinea this summer and said he was now designing training for the C.D.C.

Doctors go into wards feeling fresh, he explained. But they emerge an hour later exhausted, sweating and sometimes shaking from a close call, like one he had when a patient grabbed his mask.

In the exit area, he said, “there was someone in charge whose sole focus was helping you get undressed safely.”

“You stood in front of them and did nothing until they said so,” he said. “They didn’t care if it was your first time or your 800th time. I was exhausted and emotionally drained. I looked forward to it.”

Initial Doctors Without Borders training takes two to five days, followed by three to six weeks of supervised work.

The nurses’ group, which is unfamiliar with those protocols, sent a letter to the White House on Wednesday demanding the adoption of the standards used by the University of Nebraska Medical Center with some enhancements.

That hospital is a designated isolation center, and its guidelines resemble those of Doctors Without Borders in some ways. A recent update to them called for head and neck hoods and the wiping of rubber clogs with bleach. The nurses’ union also demanded hazardous materials suits and powered air-purifying respirators.

Those can be cumbersome and claustrophobic, and the Nebraska guidelines treat them as recommended, not as standard.

A version of this article appears in print on October 16, 2014, on page A18 of the New York edition with the headline: Lax U.S. Guidelines on Ebola Led to Poor Hospital Training, Experts Say. Order Reprints|Today's Paper|Subscribe

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/16/us/lax-us-guidelines-on-ebola-led-to-poor-hospital-training-experts-say.html?_r=0

[Kobi]

I know people are really concerned about this issue. And, it isnt an easy one.

I do think we need to understand this is a process of adapting what works in the field in West Africa and what is going to fly in the American health system. Supportive care in other places is not the same as what Americans expect of supportive care in the USA.

Doctors without Borders and other such groups, as stated in Anyas post, do things or dont do things that work for them. Using a stretched plastic sheet, rather than a mattress, with the bum cut out so bodily fluids can go directly in a bucket spares health workers from exposure. Limiting of blood draws works for them. Doctors without Borders also refuse to do invasive procedures i.e. they do not ventilate people having respiratory problems, they do not do hemodialysis, they will not even operate on pregnant women because of the risk of exposure to body fluids. Ebola crisis puts pressure on human rights. (http://news.yahoo.com/ebola-crisis-puts-pressure-human-rights-183146328.html;_ylt=A0LEVynvtz9UDBgANsFXNyoA;_ylu= X3oDMTEzZnFydG9tBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMQRjb2xvA2JmMQR2dG lkA1ZJUDUzMl8x)

How do you think that will fly in the USA? Will patients, their families, the politicians, the media, health care providers, and risk management insurers be ok with people laying on plastic sheets with the bum cut out so they can poop and pee in a bucket? Will we be ok not intubating people who are struggling to breathe? Will we be ok not using dialysis when kidneys are failing? Are we ok with using IV's as long as we have viable veins and letting it go when we dont....or are we going to insist on central lines? Do we insist on doing everything possible and using all available technology even in the face of inevitable death? Yeah, we do and it has nothing to do with ebola.

Do Americans like being told to voluntarily quarantine themselves? Apparently not. Do Americans like being inconvenienced in any way? Hell no. Do Americans comply when told not to do things which risk exposure to other people? Seriously, we are too self centered for that.

Were mistakes made when ebola arrived in Texas? Yes. Big ones it seems. Are changes being made to adjust to the emerging reality? Yes. Big ones it seems. Are dedicated centers better equipped to deal with the overall care of people with ebola. Yes. Does this absolve local health care centers from being able to diagnose, quarantine, and provide initial care? No.

This is a process. It requires patience.

[TruTexan]

Just on the Dallas Breaking News( interruption of tv's ABC World news),

Ebola Patient Nina Pham, the 1st nurse infected, is going to Maryland Hospital for treatment. She will land in Bethesda Maryland from Dallas Love Field, and is in the ambulance on the way to the airport.

On other news, a Presbytarian Hospital Nurse being monitored for symptoms, in Dallas, where Duncan was treated is making claims in public as a nurse whistleblower to ABC World News, that there was chaos among the healthcare staff at the hospital and no training for Ebola safety and that the PPE provided by the hospital, left the nursing staff's necks exposed.
ABC World News has also reported that the 2nd nurse( Vinson) had symptoms of illness the day she first flew from Dallas to Cleveland, Ohio, so the CDC is trying to track down all the people she came into contact with during that first flight on Frontier Airlines and other people she came into contact with like the wedding planners and stores she may have gone to while in Cleveland, OH.

There is an abundance of cautionary steps being taken to try to stop the chain of events that could happen from exposure to the public, so it may seem that we are not getting all the information from the news in a timely manner. There is so much going on that they are scrambling to do and learning to do that we as a public feel like they aren't telling us everything.
I think they are telling us as much as they can as soon as they find out what is going on, for how long, who's sick, what training is happening to prepare for this better, etc.
This is certainly a learning process for our healthcare system from the mistakes made by the Hospital in Dallas, and from the CDC in the US. I just hope they can correct and learn from the mistakes made so that no more mistakes are made in the future. I hope they are ACTING on those mistakes to correct everything.

There is a lack of confidence in the system right now from the public and a lot of fear.

[pamela]

there is no need to worry about Ebola just yet. nature will find a way to get to us

[BrutalDaddy]

I do not consider myself a hysterical or paranoid person (at least not when it comes to diseases and things of that nature, now spiders? that's a whole 'nother story), but I do consider myself a worrier and very cautious.

If I were living and working at home, the worry and cautious part of me wouldn't be getting ramped up little by little with each passing day. However my job has me traveling to nearly every state within our country. There are times I literally go through three to four states in a day. Usually making stops in each for bathroom and eating purposes.

Hell, when ebola was first discovered in Dallas, I had JUST left the city three days prior. Only to find myself back there for, in and out, three days. I come into contact with tons of people every single day. That in itself isn't a big deal except for the fact that (and I hate to say this but it's true) a lot of these folks don't use daily, proper hygiene. I've seen it over and over. Don't wash their hands, cough without covering their mouths or sneeze really hard then wipe their hand on the counter as they're waiting in line in front of me. I've even seen them pick their noses then wipe whatever they find on the closest surface they can find.

It's things like above that cause me to worry and be hyper vigilant in my own sanitizing. So when a new case pops up and then it's out that one of those cases happened to fly with a bunch of people while having symptoms, it really does worry me. All it would take is for ONE over the road driver, like myself, to get it and that will be a bad, bad deal.

All I can do for now is sanitize my shoes before I enter my truck (yes, I do this and yes I get looks. Frankly I don't give a fuck) and wipe my hands down with bleach. Sure my truck smells like a janitor's closet but I'd rather be hyper vigilant/cautious/worried then end up with something that could do serious harm to myself or my family.

If that makes me a paranoid and/or a hysterical guy, that's okay. I'm cool with that. But until the government gets it's shit together and starts educating people, mass panic/hysteria will set in. Education is the KEY. Without it, no one knows what the fuck to do to stay safe and healthy.

Just My Opinion,
Brute.

[cricket26]

so i did not sleep well last nite...i kept thinking about the possible declaration of emergency...i would not even let my daughter drop her dog off to be "fixed" at the vet because the vet is 3 miles from presby...and i was afraid the dog would be stuck at the vet for 21 days....


well there was no declaration of emergency...but we have finally come to the conclusion that dallas is not the best place to treat this devastating disease, patients are being transported to 2 of the only 4 hospitals designed to handle this deadly disease...patient number 1 is going to maryland and patient number 2 is going to georgia....


for now self monitoring of the family of patient zero, healthcare workers at presby, passengers of flight 1143, and several school closings due to children being on frontier flight 1143....and prayers for the two nurses being treated...

[TruTexan]

On the news tonight there have been several Texas schools that closed due to children that flew on the same plane as Nurse 2, so they can sanitize the schools and they've asked that the students remain home for 21days to be monitored at home. There are several businesses, including a military employer in Killeen, Tx where Ft. Hood is located, that asked a male employee to stay home for 21 days to self monitor, and other businesses are doing the same ...asking those employees that flew on same flights as Nurse 2, to remain at home with their families and children for self monitoring. We even have people that were on those flights with Nurse 2 that have notified employers they are staying home voluntarily, and keeping their kids out of schools to self monitor for 21 days so as not to spread the disease should it rear it's ugly head.
More and more people are coming forward and doing this on their own, they aren't taking public transportation or going to schools or working because they are monitoring themselves voluntarily. I find this very courageous for people to step up to the plate and do this just in case they become ill due to exposure from Nurse 2 and not wanting to infect others. Maybe it's them being panicky maybe not, we'll see if anyone else pops up with symptoms being reported from those flights.

I also feel for the Nurse that became a whistle blower at Texas Presbytarian Hospital, she too is keeping her children at home with her and monitoring herself and her children for fever every half hour. She's scared and afraid for a lot of reasons, she knows both nurses and worked at the hospital during the time frame of the first patient, she is on the list of the 75 healthcare workers that are off work with pay as they self monitor themselves for symptoms of Ebola. She's brave to come forward and risk her job and being black balled from nursing to speak out against the hospital and it's lack of training, chaos during Duncan's stay, and Lack of correct PPE for nurses.


As I said before, and I'll say it again, there's bound to be more people getting sick, I hope and pray not, but there's bound to be due to the way things were handled in the first place. The worst has yet to come and it's not over til it's over for all of them.

My prayers are with the hospital workers exposed, the families that may have been exposed , friends of family members exposed, and all those in Africa and other countries fighting this deadly disease. My heart goes out to all of them.

ETA: so far as of today, there is not anyone that is being monitored or self monitoring that has come forward with symptoms of Ebola, and I hope it continues to remain this way.

[Kobi]

Texas health worker isolated on cruise ship over possible Ebola contact (http://news.yahoo.com/texas-health-worker-isolated-cruise-ship-over-possible-062926649.html;_ylt=AwrBT7.zGkFUBz4AG3Ol87UF;_ylu= X3oDMTEzamhoa2VvBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDVklQNT AzXzEEc2VjA3Nj)


I fear not Ebola. I fear the inane stupidity of human beings.

[MsTinkerbelly]

Texas health worker isolated on cruise ship over possible Ebola contact (http://news.yahoo.com/texas-health-worker-isolated-cruise-ship-over-possible-062926649.html;_ylt=AwrBT7.zGkFUBz4AG3Ol87UF;_ylu= X3oDMTEzamhoa2VvBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDVklQNT AzXzEEc2VjA3Nj)


I fear not Ebola. I fear the inane stupidity of human beings.


My thoughts exactly! We are a nation that thinks the rules apply to everyone but us.

[Kobi]

My thoughts exactly! We are a nation that thinks the rules apply to everyone but us.


I wish the health care workers in Texas would realize these behaviors are undermining their own credibility. It makes it look like they do not have a clue what quarantine means, or what not using public transportation or being in public places means, and it makes their ability to follow "protocol" highly suspect.

Yesterday, Texas officials had folks in quarantine sign "compliance" agreements with penalties for not following thru. Apparently, that may not be enough. Be interesting to see what the Texas response will be.

[Kelt]

I was glad to see this article form the BBC (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-29654002) detailing how a country with resources properly applied, can overcome this.

*********************

Summary from eboladeeply.org

Nigeria and Senegal Cited as Success Stories in Containing Ebola

Nigeria and Senegal could be declared officially free of Ebola within a few days, the BBC reports, as both countries near a period of 42 days without any new cases. As of Friday morning, Senegal was on the brink of being declared Ebola-free . The World Health Organization (WHO) called Nigeria’s successful contact tracing “a piece of world-class epidemiological detective work.” The 42-day period is twice the generally accepted maximum incubation period of the virus.

I think it demonstrates the efficacy of awareness over panic.

[*Anya*]

For me, personally, it is not that I fear Ebola. I fear the infection control practices of hospitals (or lack thereof), I fear the lack of honesty of the CDC and I fear, in general, the lack of of a cohesive, proactive, response to any health crisis in our country.

I have experienced this failure, personally. This is not some abstract concept for me.

Two years ago, as I have written previously in the Listening-to-each other thread- I went into the hospital for gynecological surgery, early in the AM. Before the end of the day, I had a temperature that was sky-high and a case of hospital-acquired Clostridium difficile (C-Dif). I was profoundly ill, wound up in CCU and a 11-12 day hospital stay.

It wasn't finished there. On discharge, among other issues, I had 3-4 relapses of C-Dif between March and September 2012. I had to go back on vancomycin antibiotic (cost of $2,800.00 for each course of treatment) and one episode of kidney infection before stabilizing.

Then, in July of this year, I had a squamous cell cancer removed from my leg in a dermatology out-patient office. Within 3 days, I had methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus (MRSA) in the wound (which was tightly covered with Tegaderm).

This took a month to heal, with a couple of rounds of antibiotics. I went to a university hospital infectious disease specialist who confirmed that I was not a carrier, i.e., I did not have MRSA when I went to the doctor in the first place.

I am an RN. I have worked in hospitals. I went into the hospital with the most positive attitude. An expectation that I would contract C-Dif did not enter my consciousness. I did not even consider that I might get MRSA. I have other minor surgical procedures with no negative outcomes.

I don't only post my personal opinion in this thread. I look for legitimate studies, journals, WHO and CDC's own published information. Jesse's link for EbolaDeeply.org was an excellent source of information, too.

Facts for all of us-both negative and positive are critical. Personal experiences are no less important. They show us that we must be alert, educated and knowledgable, to keep ourselves and those that we love as healthy and safe as we possibly can.

http://www.hospitalinfection.org/essentialfacts.shtml

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6309a4.htm?s_cid=mm6309a4_w

[TruTexan]

Anya,
I wanted to personally thank you for sharing your opinions in this thread, I sorta picked up on your knowledge and lingo that you might have been in healthcare and have some real life experience in that field. I appreciate all the links you have given and the efforts you have made to make this thread be more complete in knowledge awareness.

I also want to thank those members here that are participating and giving more links with information.

I too am skeptical of the information we are receiving in the Local News here out of Dallas and the CDC. It seems they are running behind telling us more information. There was NOTHING on the 12'oclock news today of the Texas Presbytarian Healthcare worker that boarded a cruise ship and is now isolated and the ship is headed back to the US.

It is Beyond my own comprehension how these healthcare workers are taking slight in that they are being monitored for symptoms of Ebola and are just plane IGNORANT and are taking Public Transportation during their time of self monitoring. It makes me wonder what schools are releasing such idiots into the healthcare field.

I'm too an not so much afraid of the Virus itself, but the lack of concern and proper treatment handling by the Texas Healthcare system in Dallas.

I live only an hour from Dallas in a small town.

ETA: It just amazes me that the CDC HAS TO tell those healthcare workers to STAY OUT OF PUBLIC GATHERINGS, STAY OFF PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION, And NOT TO CONGREGATE IN PUBLIC VENUES. You would certainly THINK that they would have COMMON SENSE NOT TO DO THOSE THINGS because of the Field of work they are in and that the potential risks of EXPOSURE they have had to an EBOLA patient would be first and foremost on their minds and that common sense would kick in. Apparently the ones trying to travel just don't have any common sense or concern for others around them. I say lock their asses up in isolation until they "GET IT" in their thick heads and are passed the time of symptoms that would occur if they were infected. I"m just shaking my damn head here in awe of their stupidity.

[MsTinkerbelly]

I was glad to see this article form the BBC (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-29654002) detailing how a country with resources properly applied, can overcome this.

*********************

Summary from eboladeeply.org

Nigeria and Senegal Cited as Success Stories in Containing Ebola

Nigeria and Senegal could be declared officially free of Ebola within a few days, the BBC reports, as both countries near a period of 42 days without any new cases. As of Friday morning, Senegal was on the brink of being declared Ebola-free . The World Health Organization (WHO) called Nigeria’s successful contact

tracing “a piece of world-class epidemiological detective work.” The 42-day period is twice the generally accepted maximum incubation period of the virus.

I think it demonstrates the efficacy of awareness over panic.

I think awareness over panic is the ideal, BUT we live in a country where people get on airplanes, cruise ships and God knows what else, WHILE SELF-MONITORING FOR EBOLA!!!!

See, i have no faith in hospitals...besides the horrors Anya spoke of from personal experience, my mother got c-diff while fighting for her life in the hospital, and finally gave up hope and stopped dialysis. I have had to be in the hospital 5x since she passed, and each time i wondered what i would catch while there. I have to DEMAND that nurses and DOCTORS wash their hands before touching me. Yes, i will admit Ebola terrifies me, and i don't apologize for that.

Ebola cannot be minimized, because the people will not take it seriously IMO.

Let's hear it for some loooonnngggg overdue panic if it makes our government finally do something to help end this world crisis.

[Kelt]

Okay, a couple of things, the nurse who got on the plane checked with the CDC first and was given a green light. Poor judgement on the part of the CDC, not the nurse who sought counsel. The healthcare worker who got on a cruise ship did so before self monitoring went into effect, had no patient contact, and started self monitoring voluntarily as soon as the guidelines were known.

It’s already been established that bugs get around in hospitals and new precautions are going into place as we speak that may be of future benefit in all infectious situations.

Yes, Ebola is a scary virus and I for one am glad I am in the US and not West Africa. I know that my voice as an individual is not likely to be heard but I can also see lots of action on the part of congress who for better or worse are our elected representatives.

I am also glad that the CDC is scrambling to keep up, it would be nice if everything had been perfect upfront. The alternative would have them standing firm on ineffective policies. I say yay for flexibility and updating protocols on the fly to stay on top of changes as they arise.

I was only trying to show that in some places with resources it is possible to stop the spread after it has begun and that it is being done. Certainly not trying to minimize anything.

If the point of this thread/conversation is to encourage panic by highlighting media hype, then so be it, it’s your thread go for it.

[MsTinkerbelly]

Okay, a couple of things, the nurse who got on the plane checked with the CDC first and was given a green light. Poor judgement on the part of the CDC, not the nurse who sought counsel. The healthcare worker who got on a cruise ship did so before self monitoring went into effect, had no patient contact, and started self monitoring voluntarily as soon as the guidelines were known.

It’s already been established that bugs get around in hospitals and new precautions are going into place as we speak that may be of future benefit in all infectious situations.

Yes, Ebola is a scary virus and I for one am glad I am in the US and not West Africa. I know that my voice as an individual is not likely to be heard but I can also see lots of action on the part of congress who for better or worse are our elected representatives.

I am also glad that the CDC is scrambling to keep up, it would be nice if everything had been perfect upfront. The alternative would have them standing firm on ineffective policies. I say yay for flexibility and updating protocols on the fly to stay on top of changes as they arise.

I was only trying to show that in some places with resources it is possible to stop the spread after it has begun and that it is being done. Certainly not
trying to minimize anything.

If the point of this thread/conversation is to encourage panic by highlighting media hype, then so be it, it’s your thread go for it.

Wow, seriously?

Your opinion is welcome here, or anywhere you choose to be. BUT, so is mine. Open dialog/other opinions/debate is a great way to get to know information and other view points.

If you want everyone to agree with you, sorry, not my thing. If you want to fuss and argue your point, here i am.

Peace

[TruTexan]

Wow, seriously?

Your opinion is welcome here, or anywhere you choose to be. BUT, so is mine. Open dialog/other opinions/debate is a great way to get to know information and other view points.

If you want everyone to agree with you, sorry, not my thing. If you want to fuss and argue your point, here i am.

Peace

that's what I was thinking...... Wow Seriously?
Who said anything to Kelt ? I haven't seen anything in this thread about anything Kelt has been putting in here. I've read the things Kelt has put up for links and I've welcomed input, even thanked everyone for those things. I don't know what made Kelt feel this way,,,,,,geeze


As for me putting in Media relays, I'm putting those in from Dallas area, and just talking about what they are saying.

And for one thing, that damn hospital rep keeps saying if Duncan had walked in holding a damn sign saying that he had Ebola, they were prepared, and and they are still prepared........I CALL THAT BULLSHIT, look at what happened there already. Is this dude serious? He's a knuckle head.

[BrutalDaddy]

This is strictly my own opinion so I'm not basing this off any factual stuff found online or by listening to news media, the government or even CDC.

I can't listen to them right now. Why? Because I do not trust them. Why again? Because instead of letting people know the best things to do to protect themselves from the get go, all they said was, "Oh don't worry. There's no way Ebola will ever reach our shores."

Bullshit.

When it did reach our shores then it turned to, "Oh don't worry. The hospital is equipped to deal with this and are treating this seriously." Instead we find out that not only were the health care workers not properly equipped but obviously not drilled over and over and over and over on how to properly take off possibly infected clothing after dealing with the patient. On top of that, the ball got dropped by allowing "self monitoring" then giving the okay for one nurse who was possibly beginning to show signs to travel on a plane.

Bullshit number two.

Again, this is strictly my own opinion and my opinion is that until the CDC, the government and whoever else has actual, frontline knowledge of Ebola begin telling people in plain, straightforward English on the basic, fundamental things to do to protect themselves, I will continue to take most of what they say as bullshit.

I totally get and understand why they do not wish to "inspire panic and hysteria". I get it. It can lead to more damage and harm being done to those who aren't even sick with Ebola. But guess what? That can happen now, when people who are getting scared DON'T have the correct knowledge and education on this disease.

And while I'm on the topic, the government sure as fuck didn't help me to feel any safer or more confident that they'll start handling the ball instead of dropping it by naming someone who has NO fucking knowledge or skill in the field of medicine to head up and coordinate "the U.S. response to Ebola". Yes, he's got "great management experience both inside the government as well as the private sector" but what happens if, god forbid, this shit does blow up?

Bullshit number three, for me.

I sincerely hope with all of my heart and soul they prove my fears wrong. I really really really do.

Final point, education is key key KEY.

My Buck Twenty's Worth,
Brute.

[MsTinkerbelly]

that's what I was thinking...... Wow Seriously?
Who said anything to Kelt ? I haven't seen anything in this thread about anything Kelt has been putting in here. I've read the things Kelt has put up for links and I've welcomed input, even thanked everyone for those things. I don't know what made Kelt feel this way,,,,,,geeze


As for me putting in Media relays, I'm putting those in from Dallas area, and just talking about what they are saying.

And for one thing, that damn hospital rep keeps saying if Duncan had walked in holding a damn sign saying that he had Ebola, they were prepared, and and they are still prepared........I CALL THAT BULLSHIT, look at what happened there already. Is this dude serious? He's a knuckle head.

Please no name calling.

I used Kelts post to respond to his thoughts, so he was right to think i was responding in part to what he said...i'm on an ipad and can't snip the part i want to respond to, so maybe he felt i was jumping on him.

I want discussion here, but because we can't see people or their tone of voice, it is easy to assume anger or nastiness. I just want to voice my fears, read what's written, listen to other opinions and sort through all of it to find reassurance and peace in my heart.

[Kelt]

Wow, seriously?

Your opinion is welcome here, or anywhere you choose to be. BUT, so is mine. Open dialog/other opinions/debate is a great way to get to know information and other view points.

If you want everyone to agree with you, sorry, not my thing. If you want to fuss and argue your point, here i am.

Peace

I did open with a fact check, but otherwise was engaging in open dialog. I just did ‘fuss and argue’ my point, done. I was clarifying my opinion.

No I don’t expect everyone to agree with me, I think it’s clear my thoughts on media hype are in the minority.

I'm not trying to minimize anything about ebola, as I stated above. I don't understand promoting panic, but that is just a difference of opinion which I expressed. I get that others feel differently.

[TruTexan]

Please no name calling.

I used Kelts post to respond to his thoughts, so he was right to think i was responding in part to what he said...i'm on an ipad and can't snip the part i want to respond to, so maybe he felt i was jumping on him.

I want discussion here, but because we can't see people or their tone of voice, it is easy to assume anger or nastiness. I just want to voice my fears, read what's written, listen to other opinions and sort through all of it to find reassurance and peace in my heart.

I wasn't name calling anyone, I just thought the same thing as you to some degree and agreed. Everyone has an opinion and is more than welcome to post it, no matter if I agree with it or not, and I just don't think sitting back and letting someone else say something about media hype is right. I post what I find from live news from Dallas so everyone reading this thread knows what's being told to us HERE WHERE I LIVE Near DALLAS. I'm not creating panic or hype, I'm just relaying my thoughts and what's being told to US that live here near Dallas or in Dallas from Dallas News.

I too voice my fears, call bullshit out from the news, and read and listen to others opinions on this thread and try to find reassurance in the healthcare system here as well as the CDC and WHO(world health organization). This way I can sleep at night and not worry about some severe epidemic happening near me.

[Kelt]

that's what I was thinking...... Wow Seriously?
Who said anything to Kelt ? I haven't seen anything in this thread about anything Kelt has been putting in here. I've read the things Kelt has put up for links and I've welcomed input, even thanked everyone for those things. I don't know what made Kelt feel this way,,,,,,geeze


There must be confusion here.

I posted a link to an article about the control of ebola in Nigeria. MsTinkerbelly replied with four points, one I fact checked, two I agreed with, and the last I disagreed with.

Why are you upset?

[TruTexan]

I"m not, Kelt, I just thought what you said about promoting media hype was not what is going on in this thread. That's it.

[cricket26]

well, i feel a huge weight lifted now that the 2 nurses are being well taken care of in facilities that are equipped and have staff that are highly trained...alot of fears have been alleviated...even so we still have fears of being accidentally exposed by passengers on frontier flight 1143 and passengers on a carnival cruise to mexico boarded by a lab tech from presby...the cruise ship was not allowed to dock in mexico and is on its way back to galveston....

[Kobi]

Okay, a couple of things, the nurse who got on the plane checked with the CDC first and was given a green light. Poor judgement on the part of the CDC, not the nurse who sought counsel. The healthcare worker who got on a cruise ship did so before self monitoring went into effect, had no patient contact, and started self monitoring voluntarily as soon as the guidelines were known.

It’s already been established that bugs get around in hospitals and new precautions are going into place as we speak that may be of future benefit in all infectious situations.

Yes, Ebola is a scary virus and I for one am glad I am in the US and not West Africa. I know that my voice as an individual is not likely to be heard but I can also see lots of action on the part of congress who for better or worse are our elected representatives.

I am also glad that the CDC is scrambling to keep up, it would be nice if everything had been perfect upfront. The alternative would have them standing firm on ineffective policies. I say yay for flexibility and updating protocols on the fly to stay on top of changes as they arise.

I was only trying to show that in some places with resources it is possible to stop the spread after it has begun and that it is being done. Certainly not trying to minimize anything.

If the point of this thread/conversation is to encourage panic by highlighting media hype, then so be it, it’s your thread go for it.



The hard stuff in situations like this is remembering to take everything one hears and sees in the media with a grain of salt cuz mostly likely the information contains an element of truth without knowing the entire story.

As such, when info surfaces, it has to be backtracked to uncover the facts vs the conjecture vs the covering of ones ass vs damage control and such. Complicated stuff to sort out at any level.

This, understandably makes people antsy. It has the appearance of lying, cover ups, conspiracies, and what have you, while the folks who have the arduous task of separating fact from fiction do their jobs.

Even once the facts and fiction are sorted, it may or may not be deemed appropriate to divulge what facts were uncovered for a variety of reasons. This is frustrating.

I think it is important for people to be able to express their fears, questions, and concerns. It helps to relieve their anxiety. It is an opportunity to reassure, share info, and other stuff which may help folks to look at something in a different way. This is also the time folks who have had bad personal experiences with the health care system find the memories and feelings of what they faced resurfacing and mixing with the present situation. It is human nature to do so.

As info emerges, more than one thing has made me raise an eyebrow. Little by little, what seemed unexplainable became very explainable. It was deliberate ass covering along with shifting blame. This too is human nature.

This is a very complicated situation being further complicated by people who are being less than honest. We know the hospital lied. Reports are emerging that the nurse who flew to Ohio was not being honest. I dont know what the lab person on the cruise was thinking.

A lot of time, energy and resources which could be put to better use in dealing with Ebola per se, is being wasted having to mop up after less than honest caregivers with questionable judgement who are not adhering to what they have been told to do and not do. In the process, hundreds of people have potentially been exposed affecting different parts of the country. Businesses like airlines, cruise ships, bridal shops etc have been put at risk. That is just from the 3 we know about. One has to wonder what the rest of the crew has been up to.

The sad part is this undermines not only the credibility but the professionalism of these caregivers all along the line. Poor judgement and a lack of common sense are not good qualities in heath care providers.

[TruTexan]

The hard stuff in situations like this is remembering to take everything one hears and sees in the media with a grain of salt cuz mostly likely the information contains an element of truth without knowing the entire story.

As such, when info surfaces, it has to be backtracked to uncover the facts vs the conjecture vs the covering of ones ass vs damage control and such. Complicated stuff to sort out at any level.

This, understandably makes people antsy. It has the appearance of lying, cover ups, conspiracies, and what have you, while the folks who have the arduous task of separating fact from fiction do their jobs.

Even once the facts and fiction are sorted, it may or may not be deemed appropriate to divulge what facts were uncovered for a variety of reasons. This is frustrating.

I think it is important for people to be able to express their fears, questions, and concerns. It helps to relieve their anxiety. It is an opportunity to reassure, share info, and other stuff which may help folks to look at something in a different way. This is also the time folks who have had bad personal experiences with the health care system find the memories and feelings of what they faced resurfacing and mixing with the present situation. It is human nature to do so.

As info emerges, more than one thing has made me raise an eyebrow. Little by little, what seemed unexplainable became very explainable. It was deliberate ass covering along with shifting blame. This too is human nature.

This is a very complicated situation being further complicated by people who are being less than honest. We know the hospital lied. Reports are emerging that the nurse who flew to Ohio was not being honest. I dont know what the lab person on the cruise was thinking.

A lot of time, energy and resources which could be put to better use in dealing with Ebola per se, is being wasted having to mop up after less than honest caregivers with questionable judgement who are not adhering to what they have been told to do and not do. In the process, hundreds of people have potentially been exposed affecting different parts of the country. Businesses like airlines, cruise ships, bridal shops etc have been put at risk. That is just from the 3 we know about. One has to wonder what the rest of the crew has been up to.

The sad part is this undermines not only the credibility but the professionalism of these caregivers all along the line. Poor judgement and a lack of common sense are not good qualities in heath care providers.






Thank you for this Kobi, very very well said. I heartily agree.

[Medusa]

I'd submit that another possibility with these caregivers had much less to do with being less than honest or having questionable judgment and more to do with being overworked, understaffed, and possibly undertrained.

I know a lot of damned fine caregivers who would not risk their families, much less their own health, over even the slightest hint of possibility of contracting what could be one of the least curable viruses we've seen in a long time (speaking strictly as a lay person on the potentiality of the deadliness here, if someone is an epidemiologist, please do correct me).

I believe they are doing the best they can with what they have.

As for the hospital executives, I don't consider them caregivers (especially if they've never donned scrubs or touched a bedpan full of someone else's diarrhea). They don't have the same incentive to follow the CDC guidelines as the hands-on caregivers do. Their lives are not at stake on the same level.

I just read an article about the crew of an American Airlines flight out of Dallas locked a woman who threw up in the aisle in the bathroom for the last half of her flight.

Guess what color she was?

[Kelt]

All good points and examples.

So as a result of the decisions of a few individuals we now have a whole lot of people who will be "self-monitoring" for the foreseeable future. Because that's worked out so well so far.

Now we have the court of public opinion taking action. Also going well.

*yes, I'm being sarcastic, but it's pretty much true*

The next logical question might be; who has the authority to enforce a quarantine on US citizens? It turns out the answer might be 'nobody'. I heard that come up briefly and quietly go down to 'probably state and local officials'.

I took a quick peek (http://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/aboutlawsregulationsquarantineisolation.html), nothing in depth, and it looks like it might just be states or their health departments varying by state. (needs verification) Nothing could go wrong with that comprehensive plan.

I really hope some governing body has this front and center on their radar, it could go downhill quickly. Maybe it will get handed off to Ron Klain (http://www.forbes.com/sites/matthewherper/2014/10/17/the-serious-problem-with-obamas-ebola-czar-choice/).

[DapperButch]

All good points and examples.

So as a result of the decisions of a few individuals we now have a whole lot of people who will be "self-monitoring" for the foreseeable future. Because that's worked out so well so far.

Now we have the court of public opinion taking action. Also going well.

*yes, I'm being sarcastic, but it's pretty much true*

The next logical question might be; who has the authority to enforce a quarantine on US citizens? It turns out the answer might be 'nobody'. I heard that come up briefly and quietly go down to 'probably state and local officials'.

I took a quick peek (http://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/aboutlawsregulationsquarantineisolation.html), nothing in depth, and it looks like it might just be states or their health departments varying by state. (needs verification) Nothing could go wrong with that comprehensive plan.

I really hope some governing body has this front and center on their radar, it could go downhill quickly. Maybe it will get handed off to Ron Klain (http://www.forbes.com/sites/matthewherper/2014/10/17/the-serious-problem-with-obamas-ebola-czar-choice/).

I thought I read somewhere that the state public health centers/state governments now have the power to ask people to not leave their homes and self monitor...or something like that.

I don't know much about Ron Klain (or the specifics of his role besides guiding the management of handling this crisis), however, it seems as though they are making the assumption that Klain will not look to the medical professionals to guide his decisions. Everyone is upset that there is not a medical person in place to navigate all of this, but a medical person does not automatically a good "manager" make. I would rather have a guy in charge who has experience in systems management who will seek expert guidance for his decisions, than a person who is an expert, but has no idea how to execute the task (systems management), at hand. Think of the learning curve on that one? Most people aren't good at both.

[Kelt]

I thought I read somewhere that the state public health centers/state governments now have the power to ask people to not leave their homes and self monitor...or something like that.

I don't know much about Ron Klain (or the specifics of his role besides guiding the management of handling this crisis), however, it seems as though they are making the assumption that Klain will not look to the medical professionals to guide his decisions. Everyone is upset that there is not a medical person in place to navigate all of this, but a medical person does not automatically a good "manager" make. I would rather have a guy in charge who has experience in systems management who will seek expert guidance for his decisions, than a person who is an expert, but has no idea how to execute the task (systems management), at hand. Think of the learning curve on that one? Most people aren't good at both.


I agree, that was mostly tongue in cheek. He actually sounds pretty well qualified for a constantly evolving national situation and I'm sure medical counsel will be brought in to co-advise or whatever they will call it. I'm just waiting for the clown cars and rest of the circus to pull into town.

As we've already seen, having a government agency ask someone to self monitor may work but if there are no teeth to it, it is optional. It is hard to imagine anyone not complying, but again, most of my concerns are of the hype driven panic/hysteria actions that are surely to show up at some point.

I should be clear, I'm not in favor of executive orders being put into place that strip us of our civil rights. I just don't know how the outliers in this situation will be handled. I seems like anytime local agencies are tasked with managing something that crosses state lines, things go awry.

[*Anya*]

Frequently asked questions about Ebola, answered by CDC, dated 10/17/2014:

http://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2014/faq1017-ebola-investigation-frequently-asked-questions.pdf

[The_Lady_Snow]

The epidemic we should all be worried about that is spreading like wild fire is the XENOPHOBIA and FEAR that this is causing in our spaces... I cringe when I hear or read things like

"foreigners"

"woman locked in plane lavatory"

"Those Africans"

"Those People"

"Keep them out"

"Africans should be banned from entry"

"Close our Borders"

It's troubling, sad and not helpful to what is really going on with the Ebola contamination....

[feminality]

The epidemic we should all be worried about that is spreading like wild fire is the XENOPHOBIA and FEAR that this is causing in our spaces... I cringe when I hear or read things like

"foreigners"

"woman locked in plane lavatory"

"Those Africans"

"Those People"

"Keep them out"

"Africans should be banned from entry"

"Close our Borders"

It's troubling, sad and not helpful to what is really going on with the Ebola contamination....

Thank You Lady S ... for saying out loud what I have been thinking and wanting to say but was afraid ... Thank you.

[cricket26]

i guess i fell into false sense of security being here in dallas and the fact that the governor did not make a declaration of emergency in which "the county judge or mayor of a municipality may control ingress to and egress from a disaster area under the jurisdiction and authority of the county judge or mayor and control the movement of persons and the occupancy of premises in that area.” that did not happen...


now a woman who got on dallas public transportation (DART) was greeted with men in hazmat suits...
http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-Texas/2014/10/18/Dallas-Woman-Falls-Ill-Getting-Off-DART-Train-Saturday-HAZMAT-On-Scene apparently several people threw up on the dart rail today...

i am wondering if is just the normal seasonal flu going around, or people are so stressed out about ebola that they cant even leave their homes with out throwing up....this woman spit on the train platform and was taken away....

please people dont panic...

[Martina]

apparently several people threw up on the dart rail today...

i am wondering if is just the normal seasonal flu going around, or people are so stressed out about ebola that they cant even leave their homes with out throwing up....this woman spit on the train platform and was taken away....

.

Don't you think on any given day several people throw up while on public transportation? Are people really getting "taken away?"

[EnchantedNightDweller]

The epidemic we should all be worried about that is spreading like wild fire is the XENOPHOBIA and FEAR that this is causing in our spaces... I cringe when I hear or read things like

"foreigners"

"woman locked in plane lavatory"

"Those Africans"

"Those People"

"Keep them out"

"Africans should be banned from entry"

"Close our Borders"

It's troubling, sad and not helpful to what is really going on with the Ebola contamination....

I was thinking about this very thing today. I was remembering how people with AIDS were treated during the initial outbreak. It is terrible but it is fear causes people to act this way. Until we know more about the virus, I'm afraid this is how it will be.

[The_Lady_Snow]

I was thinking about this very thing today. I was remembering how people with AIDS were treated during the initial outbreak. It is terrible but it is fear causes people to act this way. Until we know more about the virus, I'm afraid this is how it will be.


People should be cautionary period, not just because Ebola is on the news.. We should wash our hands, have safe,sex, not eat processed foods, clean kitty litter with gloves and masks on, not smoke, not eat fried food, teach our kids to wash their hands after sneezing into them etc etc..


What is happening is some racist, separatist mentality, where black peoples or African people will become easy targets for the xenophobes, radical nut jobs, ignorant folks. People have and will continue to be self appointed heros who will say, do, act stoopid and offensive, it didn't have to be that way with AIDS like you said, that was a total disgusting way that homophobic rhetoric and hate was advocated by them in the name of zealotry and bigotry(including our own Government cough Reagan).. We have Faux news spreading fear and ignorance and as a people we shouldn't shrug it off cause it's expected we should be aware that if groups of people are going to be blamed so are the rest of us (see Pat Robertson he blames the gays for everything)..

We've (this country) adopted a new (for the time being) hate agenda, last month it was focused on Muslims, this week Africans & Blacks.. It's alarming when people start looking at at black folk sizing up what region their from to figure out if they could be contaminated or not, it's uncomfortable to read, see and hear about. That's more scary, the nonchalant way we are expected to be about unreasonable, xenophobic, non factual hysteria..

[cricket26]

Don't you think on any given day several people throw up while on public transportation? Are people really getting "taken away?"


"She will be taken to a local hospital for additional medical evaluation or treatment as needed,” “Once she has been transported the station will be cleaned and put back in service."


yes people are being taken away...the lab tech worker on the carnival cruise is "asymtomatic" for ebola but she has been taken away for observation

[Kobi]

"She will be taken to a local hospital for additional medical evaluation or treatment as needed,” “Once she has been transported the station will be cleaned and put back in service."


yes people are being taken away...the lab tech worker on the carnival cruise is "asymtomatic" for ebola but she has been taken away for observation


The news reports I am hearing about the lab worker from the cruise was on arrival, she and her husband were checked by CDC people, then drove themselves home. The blood tests for ebola were negative, and today would have been the 21st day from possible exposure.

Vicky Rey, vice president of guest care for Carnival Cruise Lines, said the woman and her husband drove themselves home after arriving in Galveston early Sunday, but offered no further details.Source (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_EBOLA_CRUISE_SHIP?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT)

As for the people who are puking at train, bus, and air terminals.....it is flu season. And, as far as I know, every business has a protocol for the cleaning up of unexpected customer deposits.

Businesses may be a little more diligent about it now which is actually a good thing. Actions speak louder than words. People want to SEE what is being done, not HEAR they shouldnt be worried or whatever. It is also survival strategy for businesses - frightened customers go elsewhere.

I think it is also important to remember that first responders have a job to do. EMT's, assess, treat as needed, and transport. It is not their job to diagnose. And risk management stuff almost mandates if they show up, you are getting a free ride to the nearest ER, and that has nothing to do with ebola per se.

We should all be prepared when seeking health care now or when we are exhibiting symptoms of illess to be asked if we have traveled recently or been around someone who has traveled recently. Yes or no are the appropriate responses. Refrain from adding in humor or innuendo or smartass responses - providers will err on the side of caution and you might not like what that means.

Common sense, level heads.

[cricket26]

yes people are being taken away...the lab tech worker on the carnival cruise is "asymtomatic" for ebola but she has been taken away for observation

update: the lab tech and her travel partner were allowed to leave the cruise ship with no restrictions This morning, the Galveston County Health Authority has made the assessment that there is no evidence of a public health threat to cruise passengers or to Galveston County. The passenger and her travel partner have been allowed to disembark without restrictions. The public health assessment is based on the fact the person was confirmed to have
remained asymptomatic and reassurance provided by Department of State Health Services lab testing.

[GeorgiaMa'am]

Emory Healthcare has put up a website with their Ebola Preparedness guidelines. http://www.emoryhealthcare.org/ebola-protocol/ehc-message.html

As you all probably recall, Emory is one of the four U.S. hospitals with a special isolation unit. They have treated four patients with ebola so far.

[*Anya*]

CDC to revise Ebola protocol, Pentagon preps team

By MIKE STOBBE

ATLANTA (AP) — Revised guidance for health care workers treating Ebola patients will include using protective gear "with no skin showing," a top federal health official said Sunday, and the Pentagon announced it was forming a team to assist medical staff in the U.S., if needed.

Dr. Anthony Fauci, head of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, said those caring for an Ebola patient in Dallas were vulnerable because some of their skin was exposed.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is working on revisions to safety protocols. Earlier ones, he said, were based on a World Health Organization model in which care was given in more remote places, often outdoors, and without intensive training for health workers.

"So there were parts about that protocol that left vulnerability, parts of the skin that were open," Fauci said.

The CDC guidance was expected as early as Saturday, but its release has been pushed back while it continues to go through review by experts and government officials.

Health officials had previously allowed hospitals some flexibility to use available covering when dealing with suspected Ebola patients. The new guidelines are expected to set a firmer standard: calling for full-body suits and hoods that protect worker's necks, setting rigorous rules for removal of equipment and disinfection of hands, and calling for a "site manager" to supervise the putting on and taking off of equipment.

The guidelines are also expected to require a "buddy system," in which workers check each other as they come in and go out, according to an official who was familiar with the guidelines but not authorized to discuss them before their release.

Hospital workers also will be expected to exhaustively practice getting in and out of the equipment, the official said.

Said Fauci: "Very clearly, when you go into a hospital, have to intubate somebody, have all of the body fluids, you've got to be completely covered. So that's going to be one of the things ... to be complete covering with no skin showing whatsoever."

The American Nurses Association and other groups have called for better guidance that sets clearer standards on what kind of equipment, how to put it on and how to take it off.

"We're disappointed that the recommendations are still not available," association president Pamela Cipriano said. "Having a lag in official direction from the CDC doesn't instill the greatest confidence in their ability to rapidly respond."

Cipriano said she understands the guidance will also include a call for anterooms, apart from the patient room, where protective equipment must be put on and taken off.

The push stems from the infection of two nurses at a Dallas hospital who treated an Ebola-infected patient named Thomas Eric Duncan — the first person diagnosed with the virus in the U.S.

The nurses, Nina Pham and Amber Joy Vinson, were diagnosed with Ebola less than a week later. Officials say how they were infected remains a mystery.

Duncan's medical records, provided by his family to The Associated Press, show Pham first encountered the patient after he was moved to intensive care at 4:40 p.m. on Sept. 29, more than 30 hours after he came to the ER. Nearly 27 hours later, Vinson first appears in Duncan's charts.

In Pham's first entry, she makes no mention of protective gear — although doctors and nurses may not always note their own safeguards in medical records, since they are focused on logging the patient's care. When she logged again the following morning, she mentioned wearing a double gown, face shield and protective footwear — equipment she mentioned again in later entries.

In the first apparent mention of Vinson, she is said to have worn personal protection, including a hazardous-materials suit and face shield. Hospital officials have said masks that cover the nose and mouth were optional, consistent with CDC guidelines at the time. The CDC later advised leg covers and isolation suits, and the hospital complied, Texas Health Presbyterian officials said.

Nurses have voiced concern that they have never cared for Ebola patients before and feel unprepared and underequipped. "If hospital administrators had to take care of Ebola patients, they would have the gold standard and hazmat suits," said RoseAnn DeMoro, executive director of National Nurses United, a union with 185,000 members.

http://news.yahoo.com/fauci-protocols-call-now-skin-showing-134441808--politics.html

[Kelt]

Something I’m starting to wonder about in all of this is the money. I see where Obama is asking for funding, all well and good and predictable and will be much needed by municipalities, hospital, and other agencies. My question is more toward individuals. For one, I see that some people are self-monitoring with paid leave and others are simply losing three weeks of income. For a lot of people, especially those who live paycheck to paycheck this could be devastating. Will we start seeing one person who got on an airplane (or whatever) seeking repayment from someone who was sick? Or better yet, not sick but suspected of being sick?

Much larger than that of course is the fact that the US does not have single payer healthcare but individual coverages. And we all know how much insurance companies love to find ways to not cover things. Anyone who gets this or even just has to be put in isolation for a while is going to rack up HUGE bills. The amount of money involved in bio-containment is amazing. I wonder if the annual OOP maximums will hold up? There is also the tremendous staffing required, 10-25 staff for one patient instead of half a dozen caring for multiple patients. I wonder how that 10-50% coinsurance is going to work out…?

I personally believe this will stay controlled in first world countries and hope I am right. But these expenses are incurred for a while at least even for people who will ultimately test negative for it during their time period of waiting to find out. Most of this abundance of precaution is good, although some may be over the top, but ultimately someone has to pay for it.

[cricket26]

in response to kelts post and as someone who lives in dallas county i am very worried about my tax bill....

[MsTinkerbelly]

Just in on CNN...

A Doctor in New York has begun to run a fever and present symptoms of Ebola, and has been taken to Bellvue Hospital which is one of 8 hospitals in New York that have been running drills.

The Doctor returned recently from Africa, and as late as last night was out bowling. His girlfriend has been put in isolation as well pending diagnosis.

[TruTexan]

West Africa Travel Restrictions being routed to certain designated airports in the US to curb Ebola outbreaks according to ABC World News: Travel Restrictions (http://abcnews.go.com/Health/video/ebola-travel-restrictions-passengers-fly-designated-airports-26357044)

[MsTinkerbelly]

The doctor in New York does indeed have Ebola.

When he called and the paramedics in hazmat suits picked him up, he had a 103* fever, and had been experiencing symptoms for several days.

He did not follow any type of self-quarantine proceedures. One man, several days, now someone will have to pay for all of the work to trace all of his contacts since returning to the states.

[TruTexan]

A healthcare worker, returning from West Africa, has been quarantined for testing after running a fever a couple hours after her temperature was checked at the airport in New Jersey.

New York and New Jersey Governor's are now calling for ALL travelers from West Africa orgins that have been in contact with Ebola patients are to be put into quarantined for 21 days upon arrival to the US.This comes after the doctor that tested positive for Ebola in NY was allowed to freely travel around the city.
The CDC is tracking the doctor's movements to anyone that came into contact with him after his arrival to the US.

The first nurse, Nina Pham, is now testing free of Ebola and has returned to North Texas tonight. The 2nd nurse, Amber Vinson, is still testing free of Ebola but has yet to be released from quarantine. Nina Pham's dog, Bentley, is still testing positive for Ebola and is being well cared for by Texas A & M veterinarians. He is not yet going to be released from quarantine.

[GeorgiaMa'am]

I am starting to think it might be wise for all travelers who have been in contact with Ebola victims to be quarantined for 21 days upon return to the U.S. Probably the healthcare workers who travel with Doctors Without Borders will comply, but will other people? 21 days could be so inconvenient that many people will just lie about whether they have been around friends or family who have Ebola.

If we revisit the idea of quarantining everyone (not just those who admit to having contact) who travels from the three high crisis countries in West Africa, people can just travel through other countries (although it seems we ought to be able to verify all travel itineraries for anyone who arrives in the U.S. - I don't understand why this is difficult, or at least 99% of all travel itineraries. Doesn't the U.S. require travel visas for everyone who is not a U.S. citizen coming from Guinea, Sierra Leone and Liberia? It seems all those people's names should be in a computer somewhere.) Of course, who is going to pay for all this quarantining, and where could we even put that many people? These are some of the same questions that have been raised all along, but it's looking as though we may have to consider some of the more restrictive measures that have been suggested.