Making Amends...Question/Input request

[pajama]

Hi everyone. I am looking for some positive feedback on an issue I have come across.

Briefly - I had two very close friends years ago that we had a major altercation and haven't spoken in years. What was done doesn't really matter, we all contributed in some way. I feel I was wronged and I hold a grudge. (Good, bad, mature, or not, it is how I am.) We do not speak, have not in over six years, do not communicate with each other.

Today I received an e-mail from one of them saying she had stopped drinking and smoking (weed) and was working a program. She is making amends and apologized for her part in what happened. Basically apologizing for judging me.

Here is my dilemma. I am all for someone working their program and recovery. So I want to acknowledge this step and apology. But did I mention I hold a grudge? I don't feel I can say "I accept your apology". I am not at a place yet to forgive (hell I'm still holding a grudge against someone else that's over 20 years old, so our 6-7 years isn't even a start yet).

I don't want to ignore it, or be a bitch or throw it in her face. I may not respect or like her, but I respect the hell out of the program. And for that I feel I must respond.

Would some of you please share with me if you ever had anyone not accept your apology. Or what would be a supportive way to respond to this?

While some of you may feel just forgiving her is the solution, that's not an option. While you're free to express that opinion, it really won't help me in this situation and help is what I'm asking for.

Thanks to any that feel like replying.

A

[SleepyButch]

Hi everyone. I am looking for some positive feedback on an issue I have come across.

Briefly - I had two very close friends years ago that we had a major altercation and haven't spoken in years. What was done doesn't really matter, we all contributed in some way. I feel I was wronged and I hold a grudge. (Good, bad, mature, or not, it is how I am.) We do not speak, have not in over six years, do not communicate with each other.

Today I received an e-mail from one of them saying she had stopped drinking and smoking (weed) and was working a program. She is making amends and apologized for her part in what happened. Basically apologizing for judging me.

Here is my dilemma. I am all for someone working their program and recovery. So I want to acknowledge this step and apology. But did I mention I hold a grudge? I don't feel I can say "I accept your apology". I am not at a place yet to forgive (hell I'm still holding a grudge against someone else that's over 20 years old, so our 6-7 years isn't even a start yet).

I don't want to ignore it, or be a bitch or throw it in her face. I may not respect or like her, but I respect the hell out of the program. And for that I feel I must respond.

Would some of you please share with me if you ever had anyone not accept your apology. Or what would be a supportive way to respond to this?

While some of you may feel just forgiving her is the solution, that's not an option. While you're free to express that opinion, it really won't help me in this situation and help is what I'm asking for.

Thanks to any that feel like replying.

A

How about not even addressing the apology and just saying something like I'm happy to see you take steps to make your life better. Isn't that what the apology is about? Part of the program? That way you acknowledge her progress but don't have to accept the apology.

Just a thought anyway.

[JDeere]

I am dealing with this issue myself, as of 3 days ago. I feel similar to you about not accepting the apology and holding grudges.

However, I have had someone not accept my apology, it hurt me to be honest, because that person was very special to me, at one time.

I hope you find what you are needing, just know you aren't alone.

[Keep Smilin]

Hi everyone. I am looking for some positive feedback on an issue I have come across.

Briefly - I had two very close friends years ago that we had a major altercation and haven't spoken in years. What was done doesn't really matter, we all contributed in some way. I feel I was wronged and I hold a grudge. (Good, bad, mature, or not, it is how I am.) We do not speak, have not in over six years, do not communicate with each other.

Today I received an e-mail from one of them saying she had stopped drinking and smoking (weed) and was working a program. She is making amends and apologized for her part in what happened. Basically apologizing for judging me.

Here is my dilemma. I am all for someone working their program and recovery. So I want to acknowledge this step and apology. But did I mention I hold a grudge? I don't feel I can say "I accept your apology". I am not at a place yet to forgive (hell I'm still holding a grudge against someone else that's over 20 years old, so our 6-7 years isn't even a start yet).

I don't want to ignore it, or be a bitch or throw it in her face. I may not respect or like her, but I respect the hell out of the program. And for that I feel I must respond.

Would some of you please share with me if you ever had anyone not accept your apology. Or what would be a supportive way to respond to this?

While some of you may feel just forgiving her is the solution, that's not an option. While you're free to express that opinion, it really won't help me in this situation and help is what I'm asking for.

Thanks to any that feel like replying.

A

I have had this happen in my 9th step work. I too respect the program and the growth it takes to attempt an amense. An amense does not have to be accepted to be considered a "success". We make them as a part of our healing process not necessarily as a way to "mend fences". Our healing is in the sincerity of offering the amense. What someone does with it, how they react or wheat her they accept it is out of our control. The outcome is just what it is and learning to accept that some of the pain we caused may not be "fixable" is part of our process. Not everything comes out roses sometimes the damage is done unfortunately. Usually someone making an amense is working with a sponsor and they have prepared them for the possibility it might not work. They will also help them with any fallout emotionally.

So I say.. Be as gentle as possible and respectful if you can but most of all be HONEST. Honesty heals both sides no matter how "bad" it may Feel at the time. Be true to yourself and don't say things you don't mean. Honor the program and the step work by taking part in the process with your friend or ex- friend.

Hope this is helpful to you! Hang in there!

[*Anya*]

I can only give feedback as someone that has heard my clients working their program and making their own amends.

Frequently, they will tell me that someone that they cared about heard or received their amends.

Many of my clients do not expect forgiveness-depending on how badly that they burned a particular bridge.

A simple, "Thank you for telling me", is all that they heard in return and for many; it was all that they needed to hear.

[candy_coated_bitch]

In my opinion, you shouldn't force yourself to forgive someone or accept their apology if you don't. I've had falling outs with certain people in my past that I don't think I'd ever really want to forgive, per se. So I get it. You have a right to your feelings. Forgiveness is kind of a tricky subject but I'm pretty sure it's not something you can FORCE yourself to do. It doesn't sound like you want that.

I would say if you feel you really must acknowledge the email do so in a short, genuine way that feels comfortable to you. You can acknowledge that they are doing important work for themselves without having to necessarily be accepting of what they are telling you. I would probably say something along the lines of being glad they are in the program and taking important steps to improve their life and wish them luck. Why even address the incident that happened at all?

[princessbelle]

I want to first say i have absolutely no knowledge of the "steps" of these programs but being in health care i do know they work and they are healing and are wonderful with the majority of good outcomes for most people. So, i mean no disrespect and am only speaking from my own perspective.

Having said that, i also know that i've seen, for myself personally, they can do harm. Case in point; someone i knew, long, long ago, proclaimed to be "coming clean" with their conscience in a "step" program and asked for forgiveness for something that was a total lie and never happened. I know this makes no sense. It didn't to me either. But, at the same time it caused hurt. I don't think that these steps to recovery of any type are ever intended to hurt another and if they do, you are doing it wrong. Maybe i'm totally wrong about it, but it just wouldn't make sense if you can cause hurt or harm to another while making yourself better.

So, my dear Pajama, *my* humble advice is this...don't give it much thought. Whoever this person is, it's their path to ask for forgiveness and move into recovery. That does not translate into your obligation to succumb to an acceptance of forgiveness or even acknowledgement of the intent. It's "their journey", apparently they are doing the right things for THEM, and i wish them well as i know you do. They have accomplished what they needed to do. It's not your cross to bear. Walk away from said email and ....Let it be.

[QueenofSmirks]

Would it feel more comfortable / truthful for you to say "I appreciate your apology" along with whatever else you want to say? I share others' sentiments about your own feelings being valid, and I applaud your honesty and trying to be true to yourself.

[imperfect_cupcake]

Forgiveness means you do not expect "payment" for something you are owed. You can forgive someone and want nothing to do with them. People seem to think forgiveness means kittens and butterflys. It doesn't. It just means you no longer want something from them in reparation for damages. Doesn't mean you want anything to do with them.
Personally, if you want to be supportive and don't want to hurt them? but you just don't trust them to interact with them? sounds like you already have forgiven them their debt. You just have no desire to be their friend.

Two different things.

I personally wouldn't acknowledge the email. The email is actually not for you. It for them to do the hard work of acknowledging what they have done and how it impacts others and to apologise sincerely. A sincere apology is not made with an agenda. It's not made to fix anything or repair relationships. A sincere apology is an acknowledgement of damage.

Recently someone apologised to me for some very unacceptable behaviour. I said "yes, I expect you are quite embarrassed and sorry. That was pretty shit. I'd be embarrassed and sorry too" I was under no obligation to make them feel better about acting like an idiot. I forgave them in the sense I did not want anything from them to make up for their behaviour. But I no longer wanted anything to do with them in a certain aspect of my life. I forgave, but I don't trust and have no want or use. I wish them well, but I have no desire to interact past a certain level.
Your friend's apology is their own business. You don't even have to acknowledge it if you don't want to. If you do, then just say what you mean. You are glad they are in recovery. You wish them well. That's it.

[Mel C.]

Pajama mama, the nice thing about email is you get to respond (or not) at your convenience. Even better, you can edit your response. My guess is that this is gnawing at you and it won't be easy to let it go until you get some resolution. Perhaps writing a letter or email without sending them until you can sleep on it??? I would probably alternate from bitchy and vindictive to compassionate and caring, but where I stop, nobody knows. Not clicking on send gives me time to edit and hopefully do what is right for me.

You are one of my favorite people. You will do what is "right," whatever that is. Big ole smooches!

[Gemme]

I hear what some are saying about not responding at all and, no, you don't have an obligation to respond to the email but it feels shitty to me to not at least acknowledge it. That doesn't mean acquiescing to it but we are human creatures and it's hurtful when someone reaches out, for whatever reason, to be rejected or ignored.

Having said that, there was a time when someone sent me an email and I. Just. Didn't. Know. What. To. Do. With. It.

Awkward and frustrating times 1000.

I was at a complete loss so I didn't do anything.

And I feel shitty about it but it's too late now.

Sooooo.....that's my looking glass that I'm seeing this through.

I think Sleepy and QueenofSmirks' advise was closest to what I might do. Acknowledge the effort, because it does take effort and most people would not take it lightly opening up old wounds. But no, you don't have to forgive. I'm not a forgiving person and I do hold grudges myself and I don't think that that has stunted my personal growth or harmed me. You have to be true to yourself.

How about this?

"I appreciate your apology. I'm glad you are taking steps to get happier and healthier and wish you good luck in your journey."

That is, assuming you are glad they are not as douchy as they once were and that you do wish them well.

If not, then a simple, "I appreciate your apology. Good luck." might work too.

[pajama]

Running out the door to work, but wanted to thank everyone for their input. You have all provided me some wonderful, unique, takes on the situation. I truly appreciate your willingness to share.

Thank you all!
A

[imperfect_cupcake]

I hear what some are saying about not responding at all and, no, you don't have an obligation to respond to the email but it feels shitty to me to not at least acknowledge it. That doesn't mean acquiescing to it but we are human creatures and it's hurtful when someone reaches out, for whatever reason, to be rejected or ignored.



Hey Gemme! :D

This is totally an aside, so please excuse pyjamas.

A couple of years ago I would have agreed with you. However, after a shit ton of work on my codependany stuff, I no longer feel any responsibility for other people's feelings of hurt. Meaning, I understand that something I can say can or do can influence how someone feels, but I feel no responsibility to solve or fix or make things easier/softer for facing up to people's own stuff.

It's really up to someone else to care take their own feelings, especially if I have been estranged from them or I don't know them well.

If my "no response" is what I personally wish to do, I'm well aware this may feel extremely uncomfortable and even painful to the person making an apology. But that is their work to do, and personally, I no longer see it as any of my biz. I feel a lot healthier and happier and emotionally cleaner for it.

That someone who I no longer wish to interact with will be hurt by me not answering a letter of apology? That's ok. They can be hurt. That's their work and pain to figure out. If I am not willing to interact with them, that's just how it is. Sometimes the work is like chewing down on a cup of cold sick. If I can do it, so can they. I have every confidence in their ability to deal with it.

I know that's not quite what you ment. But I think allowing people to feel hurt and not doing things to save them from hurt is not always the best thing to do. A true apology expects no forgiveness or even acknowledgement.

I guess at the root of it I sincerely feel after a no acceptance or aknowledge ment is: The work for them after that point is to forgive themselves and that's nothing I can help with nor any of my biz. And that's harder work than someone else forgiving you.

[PatrickIver]

I am with Gemme on this one. I think just acknowledging the email and saying, thank you and good luck on your journey. It needs to be no more than that as it clear you are not ready to go there. As for the other person, she is taking the steps to better herself and part of that is trying to "tie off some loose ends" (so to speak) from the past. It is not about you making things easier or better for this person on that journey. I also agree with Gemme that just not acknowledging it, would be hinky. It appears you are a better person than that, given you have thought enough about it to come here and ask for advice. Bravo, for doing that.

Bottom line, I do not think it needs to go into being a "big thing".

[imperfect_cupcake]

< hinky and not a better person.

And I'm pretty ok with that too ;)

[Mel C.]

I'm hi king that I would regret ignoring the apology AND I would regret acting as if it was fine and dandy to treat me like poo. I'd respond but not in a way that seems like the door is open. This would have been much harder if the apology was in person. Yay again for the power of the written word.

[imperfect_cupcake]

I'm hi king that I would regret ignoring the apology AND I would regret acting as if it was fine and dandy to treat me like poo. I'd respond but not in a way that seems like the door is open. This would have been much harder if the apology was in person. Yay again for the power of the written word.

I think it's best to act in the way one feels most respectful of self in, rather than worrying about the other person, or putting their feelings first. And if that's how you would feel best, then I think that's the best way forward. :)

:D

[Orema]

I hold grudges, too, and something similar happend to me, though she wasnt in a "program"

I would respond quickly and honestly so that I could move on.

I'd say I appreciate your apology and am happy you're in a program to help you work out some things, but I'm unable to forgive you.

Wishing you success,
Sign off.

If she is sincere, she will understand and not write back.

[imperfect_cupcake]

I hold grudges, too, and something similar happend to me, though she wasnt in a "program"

I would respond quickly and honestly so that I could move on.

I'd say I appreciate your apology and am happy you're in a program to help you work out some things, but I'm unable to forgive you.

Wishing you success,
Sign off.

If she is sincere, she will understand and not write back.


Clarity is fabulous too!

[TruTexan]

IMO: I'd just not answer that email one way or another. Once someone burns that bridge with me, it's burnt and I don't respond to nothing they say.
However, you aren't me and I'm not you, so it's all up to you in how you choose to deal with this. I don't sugar coat nothing for anyone. I'm capable of forgiving but not forgetting and that is something that will stay with me forever when you burn a bridge with me.

[Ginger]

I don't think it's about the recipient of the apology; their response doesn't really matter.

I think it's about the act of making amends.



I could be wrong.

[Andrea]

Everyone is different and only you can decide what you can live with. That said, I agree with the majority of the posters: Thank you for writing/apology. Best wishes for your recovery.

That way you acknowledge their effort and you haven't offered anything you don't really feel (assuming you do wish the best for them...).

It isn't an easy decision and best sat on for a bit before making it.

[MsTinkerbelly]

I'm not sure if this makes me "hinky" or not, but once someone has done something so awful that my friendship is withdrawn, i wouldn't even open the email, let alone respond.

I hope whatever you do, you feel at peace with your choice (f)

[imperfect_cupcake]

I don't think it's about the recipient of the apology; their response doesn't really matter.



That's pretty much what I said as well. In the end, it's them having to forgive themselves and move on either with the relationships or without.
It's not really about my answer.

[Gemme]

Hey Gemme! :D

This is totally an aside, so please excuse pyjamas.

A couple of years ago I would have agreed with you. However, after a shit ton of work on my codependany stuff, I no longer feel any responsibility for other people's feelings of hurt. Meaning, I understand that something I can say can or do can influence how someone feels, but I feel no responsibility to solve or fix or make things easier/softer for facing up to people's own stuff.

It's really up to someone else to care take their own feelings, especially if I have been estranged from them or I don't know them well.

If my "no response" is what I personally wish to do, I'm well aware this may feel extremely uncomfortable and even painful to the person making an apology. But that is their work to do, and personally, I no longer see it as any of my biz. I feel a lot healthier and happier and emotionally cleaner for it.

That someone who I no longer wish to interact with will be hurt by me not answering a letter of apology? That's ok. They can be hurt. That's their work and pain to figure out. If I am not willing to interact with them, that's just how it is. Sometimes the work is like chewing down on a cup of cold sick. If I can do it, so can they. I have every confidence in their ability to deal with it.

I know that's not quite what you ment. But I think allowing people to feel hurt and not doing things to save them from hurt is not always the best thing to do. A true apology expects no forgiveness or even acknowledgement.

I guess at the root of it I sincerely feel after a no acceptance or aknowledge ment is: The work for them after that point is to forgive themselves and that's nothing I can help with nor any of my biz. And that's harder work than someone else forgiving you.


Thanks for the dialogue, cupcake!

I agree that we are responsible for our own feelings. Totally. We cannot control another's actions, only our reactions to them.

The way I approach stuff like this is not so much to babysit someone else's emotions and feelings but to put myself in their place. If an action feels like I would be hurt, then I try to avoid that. I've left some nasty emotional carbon footprints in my life, so I do my best to minimize that going forward.

I don't look at it like monitoring someone else's stuff, but making sure that my stuff is the way it's supposed to be, for me. We do agree about one thing. It's not about the other person at all, but about us. You and I just have different ways of making that happen for ourselves.

[Cin]

Step Eight: Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
Step Nine: Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.

For example if I stole or borrowed money from you to get high and never payed you back, I can apologize for doing that, but that's an apology not an amends. If I want to make amends I will give you back the money. That is an amends.

You never make an amends to someone if doing so would harm them or others. You don't go and tell your spouse or your partner that you cheated on them when you were high or drunk or that you had an affair with the neighbor. That just relieves you of your guilt. You need to carry that guilt and don't do anything like that again, that is your amends. You cannot hurt others with your amends.

Direct amends may not be possible for a variety of reasons. An amend has to do with restoring justice as much as possible. The idea is to "restore in a direct way that which we have broken or damaged--or to make restoration in a symbolic way if we can't do it directly."

If you do steps 8 and 9 the way it was meant this is the promise "If we are painstaking about this phase of our development, we will be amazed before we are half way through. We are going to know a new freedom and a new happiness. We will not regret the past nor wish to shut the door on it. We will comprehend the word serenity and we will know peace." This is the point of doing your eighth and ninth step. If you are making amends expecting forgiveness then you are doing it for the wrong reason. You have missed something vital. Having others forgive us is not the goal. Not at all. It's not even necessary that the amends be acknowledged, only that it is made. And it should only be made after we have thought long and hard about the possible consequences and talked it over with someone objective, likely our sponsor so we can be clear on our motive for making the amends.

An amends from someone in the Program is to you, but it is not about you at all. When you make an amends you need to be open to any response you get from people you've injured. It's not about manipulating them into forgiving you. And the person given the amends has a right to refuse to participate. Not responding is a perfectly acceptable choice. There is nothing required of you. There is no amends etiquette for the person who is being given an amends.

That said everyone has to do what is comfortable for them. Be true to yourself.

[Zimmeh]

Buenas Noche Pajama,

I have a best friend that I've known for nearly 28 years. Her and I were roommates back from 2010-2011. After going through a nervous breakdown, I myself tried to understand what caused this. I realized that I had to forgive so many people from my past before I allowed myself to heal. When I was finally finding my happiness, she would continue to bring up the skeletons from our past. I kept telling her that I didn't want to think about the past and wanted to view my future. When I decided to move back to Orlando, she used every secret and painful memory against me. Five years later, I'm still not to happy with how she handled my decision to continue my growth. I've since all but forgiven her.

I would also sit down, write this person a letter and get out your frustrations. Then in a few days reread that letter and see how you feel. I'm sending you a huge hug and hope you find your peace with this.

Zimmeh

[firegal]

Harder [takes more energy] to hold a grudge than to let it go.

human beings make mistakes...sometimes hurtfull ones.

what I am today isn't even close to what I was 20 years ago....thank god my good friends look at me in TODAY eyes and not yesteryears!

all u can do is the best u can today... what ever your answer/truth is!

[Medusa]

Ohhhhhhhh sheeeeeesh! This is a complex one (but thank Goddess for a "meaty" thread!)

Yanno, I had an amends-type of situation happen a couple of years ago that left me with red-ass (pissy!). So, I had a friend who did some really shitty stuff like breaking confidences, making hateful comments, and just being a giant asshole. but the main issue was a really crappy ability to disrespect my boundaries. I bid them a farewell and let them know directly that I didn't want to be friends with them anymore because of their behavior (toxic, mean-spirited, etc.)

They came back about a year later and sent me an amends email telling me they were working their program and wanted to let me know they were sorry for x, y, z and yadda yadda. I'll be honest, it felt like a violation of my boundaries all over again and this was probably flamed by the wording of the amends email where I was left feeling "blamed" for their behavior (verbiage like "I did this because I felt like you weren't giving me enough attention")

Now, with this said I have also received a very lovely and sincere amends from someone that did not feel invasive but the person was still someone I did not want to resume a relationship with.

In both cases I asked myself what would be the thing I could do that would leave my energy as clean as possible. Not necessarily to let the other person "off the hook" or even give them any space with me, but just a way to pinball off of one another with no damage to each other.

My response to both of them, "Thank you. I wish you well."

I was able to get to that place because I believed both of those folks to be struggling with something out of their control. And you know what, I don't even need to know that people are struggling to be able to say, "Best wishes to you" but if I feel it, I say it.

Acknowledging them does not open the door to them to re-enter your life. But if you think they might see it that way, I could definitely understand why no response at all would be warranted.

[imperfect_cupcake]

Miss Tick, I seem to have lost my answer... But in a nutshell, "yes. Indeed. Thank you for stating that."

[Femmadian]

[...]
They came back about a year later and sent me an amends email telling me they were working their program and wanted to let me know they were sorry for x, y, z and yadda yadda. I'll be honest, it felt like a violation of my boundaries all over again [...]

<snip>

Acknowledging them does not open the door to them to re-enter your life. But if you think they might see it that way, I could definitely understand why no response at all would be warranted.

Story time!

Once upon a time, I had a similar situation. I had someone in my life a few years ago who was a friend, not extremely close but close enough. When I first met them, they were sober and quite honest/blunt about some of the horrible things they did when they weren't, how it affected their life and the lives of the people they loved, and how difficult it was to regain their life after that. I admired them for their honesty and for the depth that their struggle added to their character. Things were going great for them... until they experienced the death of someone very close to them and it sent them spiralling back into drinking after several years of sobriety.

I tried to be supportive and a good friend to them for quite some time until they started hanging out with old drinking buddies and then suddenly started spewing some really hateful, racist shit from seemingly out of nowhere. I limited my time with them and tried to gently call them out when it felt safe to do so, but ultimately it fell on deaf ears and it was hard to both watch them come undone and also to hear the bullshit coming out of their mouth.

Without going into too much detail, it culminated in one particularly ugly incident where I didn't even recognize the monster spewing hate in front of me who had replaced the person I once knew.

While at first I was torn on whether to cut off all ties or to try to stand by and get through to them, at one point I realized "you know what, I've said a lot of ugly, nasty shit in my less-than-stellar moments and there are a lot of things I'm ashamed of, but I've never said anything like that." Everyone has their own line to be crossed. I would not expect other people to forgive me, much less keep me in their life if I said what they'd said, and I figured, if I wouldn't excuse it in myself, why would I excuse it in them?

Ultimately, like Medusa, I "ovaried up," confronted them directly, said what I felt needed to be said, the reasons I was cutting them out, told them not to contact me again, and then left it at that.

I felt guilty about it for a long time because I felt like I failed them as a friend in that I wasn't patient enough to have those hard conversations with them and engage them in what they said. Instead, I employed a scorched earth policy and let them have it and I assumed that was the end of it until I got one of those emails like you, pajama, claiming that they were in a program and getting their life together, the last time we spoke was a dark time for them, they were sorry for being such an ass, blah blah blah.

I sent what I felt was a fairly boiler plate response ("that's great to hear, glad you're making positive changes in your life, I appreciate the gesture, I know it's not easy but I wish you the best," etc etc.) and I thought it was done. They looked at it as an opening back into my life and to resume a friendship that, to me, was long gone. After several ignored attempts to meet up and a few somewhat passive aggressive emails, they finally sent me one which said things like "look, I said I was sorry, okay? What more do you want from me?" and "I thought this meant you forgave me" and "I hope you never are in a position where you have to ask for forgiveness" and finally "y'know, karma's only a bitch if you are..." :|

If my view of them and our once friendship wasn't already poisoned forever, it certainly was now.

I'll spare you the details of my blistering email to just note that one thing to keep in mind (and one thing I learned from this experience) is that with particularly manipulative, narcissistic, or otherwise toxic people, grand gestures in the way of apologies can also be a way of guilt tripping and weaselling their way back into your life (for whatever reason). Not saying that's what this is but something to keep in mind just generally.

I'd also like to echo what others have said about it not being your responsibility to give them any acknowledgment at all, no matter how much you respect the program. Making amends is on the person needing to make them, not on anyone else (especially those they have hurt), if "amends" are even possible, which, depending on the circumstances, they very well might not be. I would gently say that your respect for the program does not have to result in you opening yourself up to old wounds or potentially new ones.

Me, I'm okay with holding a grudge if it means protecting myself. Personally, I've learned I don't forgive so easily. I don't think admitting that is a bad thing either. It just means I'm honest and self-aware enough to know this about myself. My emotional borders are a bit more porous than those of others and I need to act accordingly as an act of self-care.

I really don't subscribe to the popular notion that this makes me or anyone else like me a bad person. We all have a duty to protect ourselves and our emotional well-being and to me, it would be foolish to not take into account previous behaviour when deciding how (or even whether) to go forward with someone.

Ultimately you have to do what's right for you, and that includes protecting yourself (in whatever form that may end up taking).

TL;DR: you're not a bad person if you don't reply. You're not a bad person if you do reply. Not all people are genuine in these attempts and even if they are, you owe them nothing. The only person you owe anything to is yourself, and only you know what that is.

Good luck! :)

[GeorgiaMa'am]

I agree that a brief "thank you, best wishes" response is probably best. Although you could take the opportunity to express your honest feelings that you are not ready to forgive, and that you respect the program, etc., anything of that nature may only invite re-involvement. I wouldn't want to encourage this person to reply with anything like more apologies, or blame, or explanations, or rehashing of past issues; so I wouldn't "add any fuel to the fire" by giving them something to react to.

Good luck. I wish for you a lack of drama.

[imperfect_cupcake]

Femnadian, I enjoyed that post. I personally do not want amends of any sort from those I have excused myself from. I always leave the door ajar for people to come back unless I have been more than pateint and tolerant (see previous reference to my past codependancy behaviours). That has left me vulnerable to all kinds of binge drinkers, alcoholics, drug addicts, narcissists and all sorts. Because I didn't protect and care for myself first. I always put thoughts about others peoples feelings before my own.

But surely being kind and considering someone else's possible hurt feelings is the right thing to do. Momma always raised me to be a polite girl first, above all else.

Which of course, I inherited a lot of codependancy behaviour from.

I personally do not think knowing your own boundaries, taking care of yourself and doing what's best for you *first* is holding a grudge. Holding a grudge means you are still angry, you want some kind of payment even if it's just that the other person suffers quietly in a mud puddle after being shot onto an asteroid and never to return.

I don't hold grudges. I'm not that kind of person. Occasionally I will feel that way for a while, then I will do my own work, get over myself eventually and move on. However, I have given people in my life far too many third and fourth and fifth chances. If it's one of those people who have given me years of damage, in which it has taken me *years* of work to move on from, or I have put up with narcissistic personality collateral damage... No. They do not get a letter from me. Granted I have only *once* in my whole life had someone ask me for forgiveness and tried to make amends for the damages he caused.

But you can't make amends for the kind of damage that he caused. It just isn't possible. Decades of work was needed on my part to get past many things and other things I just have had to learn to live with, and around, as they are a part of me now. There is no amends. I don't wish him harm. I don't want him to suffer. I hope he is cared for. I know he is loved and for that I am glad. But there is no letter I would answer and no amends to be made. I do not want any form of payment there for I do not believe I hold a grudge and I forgive him as much as is humanly possible, considering what was done to me. I do not want anything at all from him but for him to leave me alone. Period. No contact.

That he may have hurt feelings over that? I'm afraid that is just part of what he will have to work through on his own journey. It is not my concern.

That is why I think if you do answer and say good luck, be extremely clear that you do not wish for them to be in your life at this point. Which will probably hurt. But you need to aknowledge them for your own sense of "what's not hinky" (lol) then do so. Just be very clear you do not want them in your life. If you don't explicitly say that, "I hope you do well and best of luck" doesn't actually say if you want to speak to them or not. Trying to send "polite, unspoken messages to avoid hurt" is what gets a lot of us in trouble (read: me and my past of not being explicit and afraid of being rude and hurtful).

So be blunt. Be clear. And do not leave room for misinterpretation that you will have to deal with later because you were "polite".

IMO.

[WolfyOne]

This has been a great topic, my friend
Not only to help you get answers, but to make some of us aware, if it ever comes knocking on our door.
I can't add a thing because I am a forgiver and I don't hold grudges. Even if I never tell you I forgive you, I put it out in the Universe and let it go. I don't keep people like that in my life because the cycle has a chance of starting again. Life is short and moving forward is all any of us can do. I wasn't always like this, but age, time and lessons learned or burned have taught me well.

You have a BIG, decent, honest heart and I know you'll think about all the input you've received here and will send a short email to acknowledge it. No acceptance is needed by you. The program is theirs to work and even if you never send an email to them, they need to continue their steps.

[pajama]

Again, thank you everyone for the wonderful input. It was exactly what I needed. Lots of differing points of view.

I did respond, and went with the short I appreciate it, glad your getting happy/healthy, best wishes. Aaaaand done. I hope. LOL

I've never had this happen before so it really threw me for a loop. I gained alot of good insights from you all.

Once again, I am so grateful for this community.

A

[pumpndude]

I didn't even know what amends was years ago...I learned all about amends later in life when I became an addict in recovery.....
I have 20 years now clean & sober.....So if I wronged someone I make an amends pretty much right away.....

As for years ago I can make amends three ways.

1. I can pray for them and apologize to my higher power...
2. write a letter to them and tell them I'm sorry for my part of whatever the situation is and then burn it....
3. do something positve, like volunteer and do something good in my community to make an amends....

That is what works for me....


I really don't dwell on the past and haven't in a really long time....
I use my energy for good....

take care

That what works for me..

[FireSignFemme]

I don’t like it when 12 Steppers I haven’t spoken to in years call me up to ask for my forgiveness in order to try and assuage their feelings of guilt and shame. In my opinion if they still feel that strongly, badly about it years later then they should share it with a sponsor, lay it at the feet of their therapist(s) and/or take it to the Lord in prayer. I don’t really care what baggage they’re lugging around or where they choose to dump it so long as whenever they do decide to unload, it isn’t on me.

[deeds]

I have met good people from going to AA, I was even able to land a job or two during my time there.(Court ordered)
AA is not for everyone. I do think the Lord I never killed anyone by drinking and driving.. I'm a cured alcoholic.and a little herb was a gift from him.
If I were in AA all these years, I would still be drinking at this step..:| Like victimizing the victim all over again..Let it go I say and never do it again.

[cathexis]

I have met good people from going to AA, I was even able to land a job or two during my time there.(Court ordered)
AA is not for everyone. I do think the Lord I never killed anyone by drinking and driving.. I'm a cured alcoholic.and a little herb was a gift from him.
If I were in AA all these years, I would still be drinking at this step..:| Like victimizing the victim all over again..Let it go I say and never do it again.

Friend, if you have the cure for alcoholism PLEASE share with the rest of us!

You could make a billion in a flash!

The rest of us must suffer one day at a time.

Sober 6 years by the grace of my HP!!!

[deeds]

Friend, if you have the cure for alcoholism PLEASE share with the rest of us!

You could make a billion in a flash!

The rest of us must suffer one day at a time.

Sober 6 years by the grace of my HP!!!
Good for you''
my higher power performed a miracle on me when he took my yearning for for alcohol away,And he gave me herbs as I said to help me..Also, he led me to check into a rehab hospital (the finest in Cali imo.)MPI was the name..

The one fundamental difference they made in my relationship with alcohol that changed my direction is that..You don't have problems because you drink alcohol but you abuse alcohol because you have problems..

I can't take any credit for a cure, but I would give it away freely if I could.

[MsTinkerbelly]

Friend, if you have the cure for alcoholism PLEASE share with the rest of us!

You could make a billion in a flash!

The rest of us must suffer one day at a time.

Sober 6 years by the grace of my HP!!!

At 19 my wife was an alcoholic and used drugs every day.

Her friends mother did a religious intervention, and my Kasey was struck sober! She can have a drink or two with dinner, in fact she can get drunk and have no urge to drink again at all.

Stranger things than I can even understand happen every day.