The Beginning of the End for DADT [Archive]

theoddz

02-04-2010, 10:31 AM

I served prior to DADT and I can tell you that, back then, it was even worse. I remember the witch hunts when, specifically, the US Navy and US Marine Corps had a specific division within CID, called "NIS" (Naval Investigative Service) that pursued, prosecuted and then summarily discharged (many with less than honorable discharges) gay and lesbian Sailors and Marines. It was going on in the other branches, too, and it was bad. Many MANY good, squared away service members lost careers and were further punished with less than desirable character grades on their DD214's that would mar them for life. Yes, it was worse. When I enlisted, recruiters outright asked about sexual orientation. If you answered that you were, or possessed homosexual tendencies, you were automatically disqualified. Door closed. Sorry. We. Don't. Want. You. Goodbye.

When DADT came in, I thought to myself that maybe things might be a little easier...and in a sense, they were. You see, I remember the investigations where some of the Marines I served with were dragged into the offices of investigagors and coerced to reveal names of others in exchange for (false) promises of "leniency" in their own treatment, etc. Entire investigations seemed to grow "arms" that way, like an octopus, and then the harassment and punishment would commence. I had a friend who was a (straight) supply Sgt. and they even pulled her in and wanted to discharge her on someone else's heresay, because she had ONCE been spotted in a gay club (the old Peanuts club) in Los Angeles. Yes, I remember that night when she went partying with some of our group....with her boyfriend....because she was our friend and wasn't gay at all. The fact that she was seen going into a gay club was reason enough. You see, NIS had agents they'd station outside of the known gay clubs. They also had agents inside. The one outside would stand around and watch the cars pull up. If a car had a base sticker on it, they wrote the name down as a suspected gay. Inside, the agent would try to talk to the customers, or stand around at the door and see who used a military ID for proof of age to get in. The agent would then try to get that person's name. It was ridiculous. So yes, when DADT came in, I had hoped that things would get a little easier. Something about that "don't pursue" clause.

Nowdays, I work with young service members, both officer and enlisted, because it's a medical environment. These "kids" give me hope that things are, indeed, changing. I see these young people and they are so open minded, on the whole. Yes, there's a few that have some fairly "conservative" prejudicial notions/ideas, but when you find one of them, they usually keep pretty quiet because their peers, who usually outnumber them, tell them "Hey, that's not cool, yanno." As a transgendered man, I have to say that I've gotten more respect and acceptance from these young military members than I've gotten from the (older) civilian employees of my own agency, and I successfully and openly transitioned at work. For this, I have even more hope. These kids aren't daunted or afraid of gays, lesbians or even transfolk who might be serving alongside of them. Hell, most of them know someone, or have a gay family member and they're very accepting of other kinds of people. Of course, I can't speak for other kinds of military environments. I know that there are some unit cultures that, if I were a gay male, I'd be afraid....VERY afraid....to reveal my orientation to. In the Marine Corps, for example, If I were a gay male Marine, I wouldn't be very comfortable serving in an infantry or combat arms unit. The culture is different in something like that than it would be in, say, a supply or administrative, or even communications unit. I have, in the past, known a couple of gay male Marines who did serve (verrrrry discreetly, of course) in combat units.

I know I may not hold a "politically correct" view when I say this, but I happen to think that, for everyone....gay, straight, bi, pansexual....it IS a question of conduct. Bottom line is that the person is there to do a job and it shouldn't matter one iota what that person's gender OR sexual orientation is. You're there to do a job. If you do that job well, then anything in your personal life is your business and none of anyone else's. Just like offensive conduct of any sexual nature is, and should be, excluded from the workplace, it shouldn't matter who perpetrates it...gay, straight, bi, pansexual, etc. It IS a question of conduct and everyone should be held to account if it is inappropriate for a workplace or interferes with an objective or mission. I happen to think that an inappropriate heterosexual "office affair" is most definitely a morale-dropping, inappropriate, counterproductive distraction that can adversely interfere with a workplace's mission. It doesn't matter if it's gay or straight....it disrupts what should be a professional environment and distracts from the work that needs to be done. Period.

Clinton definitely sold us out with the DADT policy, but it was, to me, a slight improvement over what was happening before. It's time to make it even better now and to remove all restrictions on gays, lesbians and bisexuals who want to do their bit and serve.

It's the right thing to do and no other option should be considered or "settled" for.

~Theo~ :bouquet:

Cyclopea

02-07-2010, 12:15 AM

I really enjoyed this NYT OpEd today on the topic:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/07/opinion/07rich.html?ref=opinion
Enjoy!
:)

Soon

02-07-2010, 01:56 AM

I really enjoyed this NYT OpEd today on the topic:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/07/opinion/07rich.html?ref=opinion
Enjoy!
:)

great article!

purepisces

03-03-2010, 03:28 PM

I hope it's ok to post this here. I received this email today and thought that it might be of interest. Please call your Senators!

************************************************** *******************************************

This morning, Sen. Joe Lieberman made history, introducing legislation to repeal "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" -- the first bill ever introduced in the U.S. Senate to end this discriminatory policy. Sen. Carl Levin, the powerful Chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, and Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand joined Sen. Lieberman in introducing this landmark legislation.

Sen. Lieberman's "Military Readiness Enhancement Act of 2010" closely mirrors a similar bill in the House of Representatives, championed by Rep. Patrick Murphy, that would repeal the law that prevents gay Americans from serving openly in the military.

Now we need to help Sen. Lieberman and Sen. Levin get the votes in the Senate that will repeal DADT once and for all.

My job -- my life -- is on the line. And so are the lives of more than 65,000 gay men and women currently serving in our nation's military. That's why I need your help. And it's why the Courage Campaign is teaming up with the Servicemembers Legal Defense Network and Knights Out to get this message to you.

It's very important that we act today -- thousands of us across America. Can you make a quick call right now urging your Senators to co-sponsor the Lieberman/Levin bill? It will take just a minute of your time, but your call will mean the world to me and so many of my fellow soldiers:

http://www.couragecampaign.org/OneQuickCall

Make no mistake: Congress needs to repeal "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" this year -- before the November elections. Right now, we're fighting on two fronts to repeal DADT in 2010:

1) Include repeal of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" in the defense budget authorization bill, or

2) Pass the "Military Readiness Enhancement Act of 2010" in the Senate and House of Representatives

With the Lieberman/Levin landmark legislation being introduced today, the most important thing you can do right now is help us build momentum behind it. The more senators who sign on as co-sponsors, the more likely we can repeal DADT in 2010 -- on one front or the other.

Can you make a quick call urging your Senators to sign on as a co-sponsor to Sen. Lieberman's new bill? Click here to get the phone number and check out our really short script, if you need it:

http://www.couragecampaign.org/OneQuickCall

Again, thank you for your support today. One small action at a time, we will finally get rid of this discriminatory and immoral law.

Daniel W. Choi
1LT, IN
New York Army National Guard

P.S. A few weeks ago, I joined Sen. Gillibrand and more than 900 people who signed up for a "Courage Campaign Conversation" conference call to discuss the repeal of DADT. If you would like to listen to this special hour-long discussion, just click here:

http://www.couragecampaign.org/ChoiGillibrandCall

Greyson

03-03-2010, 04:05 PM

Yesterday afternoon on KGO Talk Radio DADT was the topic of conversation. The guest was a discharged soilder because he was gay. He is now an activist to change the current policy, and law of DADT.

Apparently it is only a question of when this will be repealed in Congress. The next question is how quickly will the rescind be implemented? Some thing it should be done gradually; others think it should be done swiftly and in its entirety. This strategy would serve to deter any discrepancies regarding allowing gays to serve "openly" in the military.

Aj, you are never too old. IMO, it is our country's loss that they could not find a way to utilize your "older" brain in service to the USA. One of my brother's who is over 50 reinlisted and just finished serving a tour of duty in Iraq as a chaplain.

Soon

03-04-2010, 04:24 PM

While the Pentagon Studies, More Gays Fall (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nathaniel-frank/while-the-pentagon-studie_b_486296.html)

Soon

03-06-2010, 09:45 AM

McCain's DADT Support Letter Signed By A Bunch Of Dead Guys (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/05/mccains-dadt-support-lett_n_487226.html)

Soon

03-19-2010, 08:05 AM

YouTube- Rachel Maddow- Bias defends Dont ask_ dont tell policy

Jess

03-22-2010, 06:25 AM

Choi Arrested at White House Gates

http://advocate.com/News/Daily_News/2010/03/18/Dan_Choi_Protests_in_Front_of_WH/

Sachita

03-22-2010, 06:29 AM

I have slightly mixed feelings....

On the one hand, I'm glad to hear this..One step at a time, baby steps but still, it's a step forward, so future generations can proudly, Openly, shamelessly serve their Country...

On the other hand, I'm saddened it took the Powers-that-Be this long to meditate and come to such a conclusion...Had they done so 10-ish yrs ago{more or less when Clinton slapped us with it}, and abolished DADT, I honestly feel I'd probably be a part of the USMC JAG Corps at this point.....Unfortunately, the age factor..and Health keep me from pursuing if they finally accept LGBTQ...

Perhaps this will lead the way towards Equality in Marriage, Housing, Adoption etc ..Federally...

I agree BUT at least its happening. In the past 25 years I've slowly watch a shift in consciousness. The world changing and now that consciousness is becoming movement. Sometimes movement and change is unsettling and even destructive. Nature proves this to us all the time.

Cyclopea

04-20-2010, 01:57 PM

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/19/obama-heckled-by-dont-ask_n_543796.html

Rook

04-20-2010, 02:05 PM

Cyclopea

04-20-2010, 02:08 PM

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/20/gay-veterans-chain-themse_n_544586.html

I thought it was an interesting choice for the AP reporter to state that hecklers "screamed at" Obama. "Screamed"? Really?
HRstrjjmRKE

Jess

04-21-2010, 05:33 AM

I can understand being Heckled if you oppose certain measures, policies etc...
Other than successfully pissing off Supporters..
What exactly does it Prove?
I know he needs reminding from time to time..dang..
:seeingstars:

I personally think it proves more than anything else that we LGBT folks are getting very very tired of the people we fight to place in office not doing their jobs.

I don't think he should need reminding. He made it clear when running for office that equal human rights was at the forefront of his agenda. Have at it big boy!

Why is it that it has taken so long to figure out how to repeal DADT? Seems easier to do just about anything than to make it illegal to discriminate against homosexuals.

Frankly, I think Bill was trying to do the right thing with gays when DADT first came about. Seemed reasonable.. let's not talk about it, then there won't be discrimination. No one saw AT THE TIME, that it would be turned against us. Until we have laws making our rights ( ALL of our rights) equal to those of our heterosexual neighbors, we will remain less than second class citizens.

Soon

04-26-2010, 01:34 PM

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_t6rV3U9ZEHM/S9XH6_8zStI/AAAAAAAAwmY/_qXNE-Q5vOQ/s1600/DADTgrid.jpg

GetEQUAL sends us the above grid detailing the known (and unknown) DADT positions of Senators that serve on the Armed Services Committee. GetEQUAL: "These are very important targets to go after in the next 30 days with non-violent direct action and civil disobedience. It is of utmost importance that you contact ALL these Senators and express the importance of the repeal of Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell." They suggest using these talking points (http://web.me.com/natashadillon/DADTRepeal/Talking_Points.html) when calling the above Senators.

----------------

Also: GetEQUAL is sitting in at Sen. John McCain's office in Arizona. Follow the developments on their Twitter feed. (http://twitter.com/GetEqual)

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_t6rV3U9ZEHM/S9XmV2HO9lI/AAAAAAAAwpE/rzkIR0PtGlE/s1600/GetEqualTweet2.jpg

Soon

05-03-2010, 03:21 PM

TN Congressional candidates: Gays were 'taken care of' when they were in military (http://www.tennessean.com/article/20100430/NEWS02/100430039/-1/WORKAROUND01)

Physicians Ron Kirkland of Jackson and George Flinn of Memphis were among the candidates Thursday night who talked largely about how they're against the Obama administration and its policies, according to The Jackson Sun.

The candidates criticized the administration for wanting to overturn the gay policy, which prevents gays from serving openly in the military. President Barack Obama has called on Congress to lift the ban, and military officials are examining how to do that.

.....

Kirkland, a Vietnam veteran, said of his time in the military: "I can tell you if there were any homosexuals in that group, they were taken care of in ways I can't describe to you."

Smith, who served in the first Iraqi war, added: "I definitely wouldn't want to share a shower with a homosexual. We took care of that kind of stuff, just like (Kirkland) said."

The Tennessee Republican Party had no comment about the candidates statements when contacted by The Associated Press on Friday.

Jess

05-11-2010, 08:34 PM

Hopefully some good news on this front:

http://www.rollcall.com/issues/55_129/news/46002-1.html

Toughy

05-20-2010, 10:10 PM

Please read the message below about efforts to repeal “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” this year. Please call the Speaker (and your representative) to push the vote now. If you are willing to take one more step, please send this out to supporters, friends and families and flood their offices with calls.

Next week, game-changing votes in the U.S. House and Senate could make or break the fate of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" repeal efforts in 2010.

Rep. Patrick Murphy (D-PA) is expected to offer an amendment to the House version of the Defense Authorization bill that would overturn DADT. Similar action is also expected in the Senate Armed Services Committee on May 27.

For Rep. Murphy's amendment to be offered, however, the Speaker of the House must first schedule a vote.

And that's where we need your help - right now.

Urge House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) to schedule a vote on Rep. Murphy's repeal amendment to the Defense Authorization bill next week.

Call Speaker Pelosi today.

(202) 225-0100

The fight for repeal in 2010 hangs in the balance. A few votes could make the difference between victory and defeat. Each representative's vote will count.

You can find your Representative at http://www.congress.org/

Call your representative today to say that waiting another year for repeal is not an option. Ask your Member of Congress for the repeal vote.

(202) 225-3121

We are on the brink of victory, but we aren't there yet.

We can make next week's House vote a historic win if we pull out all the stops and push even harder now. We are closer to achieving repeal than ever before.

Help us get to the finish line.

Thank you.

Aubrey Sarvis
SLDN Executive Director

P.S. On Saturday, May 22, we will celebrate Harvey Milk's 80th birthday. His life reminds us that discrimination against LGBT people is still alive today, and that if we want full equality we have to fight for it. Stand up (http://www.sldn.org/action) for our gay and lesbian service members who continue to suffer from the discrimination that Harvey dedicated his life to ending.

Soon

06-10-2010, 02:52 PM

WY9MTl7gmYs&feature=player_embedded#!

Toughy

06-10-2010, 06:20 PM

as my grandmother used to say:

'bless their poor little pea picking hearts.....they just don't know no better.......'

chefhottie25

06-10-2010, 11:55 PM

An end to this policy is long overdue. My little sister served in the coast guard...and she had to do it in silence. It put a lot of stress on relationship at the time. I don't know how she did it for so many years.

tuffboi29

06-11-2010, 12:20 AM

Why is it that it has taken so long to figure out how to repeal DADT? Seems easier to do just about anything than to make it illegal to discriminate against homosexuals.

....Until we have laws making our rights ( ALL of our rights) equal to those of our heterosexual neighbors, we will remain less than second class citizens.

Hear!!! Hear!!!

Soon

06-12-2010, 03:22 PM

phTwfedn9RA&feature=player_embedded

His apology: “As mayor I must respect the lifestyle choices of others, no matter how disagreeable they are with my personal beliefs or my personal moral standards. I apologize for my comments at the Memorial Day service at Desert Lawn cemetery on Memorial Day.”

Manul

06-20-2010, 01:16 PM

This isn't good news:

Gates: Veto possible of military gay ban bill (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100620/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/us_military_gays)
WASHINGTON – Defense Secretary Robert Gates says President Barack Obama could end up vetoing legislation that would lift the ban on gays serving openly in the military.

Obama supports repealing the law, and the White House has pushed for quicker congressional action than the Pentagon has favored. Gates also supports repeal.

But Gates tells " Fox News Sunday" that Obama probably still would veto an upcoming spending bill that includes the repeal — if the bill also contains money for defense projects he says are wasteful.

Gates wants to get rid of an aircraft engine and additional transport aircraft that some lawmakers want to keep. They generally represent areas with defense contractors that would stand to lose business from the cuts.

Soon

06-30-2010, 01:21 AM

wdcBCAwI0KE

Manul

07-13-2010, 08:37 PM

A discussion of the growing debate around the repeal of "Don't Ask Don't Tell" (http://video.cpt12.org/video/1542712697/)

Toughy

07-13-2010, 10:43 PM

concerning the Pentagon survey on gays sent to soldiers:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/aaron-belkin/pentagon-survey-on-gays-d_b_643405.html

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-military-gays-20100710,0,6119129.story

AtLast

07-13-2010, 11:47 PM

I personally think it proves more than anything else that we LGBT folks are getting very very tired of the people we fight to place in office not doing their jobs.

I don't think he should need reminding. He made it clear when running for office that equal human rights was at the forefront of his agenda. Have at it big boy!

Why is it that it has taken so long to figure out how to repeal DADT? Seems easier to do just about anything than to make it illegal to discriminate against homosexuals.

Frankly, I think Bill was trying to do the right thing with gays when DADT first came about. Seemed reasonable.. let's not talk about it, then there won't be discrimination. No one saw AT THE TIME, that it would be turned against us. Until we have laws making our rights ( ALL of our rights) equal to those of our heterosexual neighbors, we will remain less than second class citizens.

If the idiots in Congress that don't want to see it repealed would not do things like putting in a bill that also appropriates money that both Obama and Defense Secretary Gates thinks is wastefull, it would be a done deal!

Just continued polital tactics by right-wing homophobes!

Manul

07-14-2010, 10:37 AM

Charges dropped against Lt. Choi (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/07/14/charges-dropped-gay-military-rights-activist-chained-white-house/)

Jess

07-19-2010, 08:14 AM

http://www.autostraddle.com/intern-applies-college-education-to-deconstruct-dadt-survey-51722/

Soon

07-20-2010, 05:23 PM

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_t6rV3U9ZEHM/TEYmv2qGHaI/AAAAAAAA2sY/4B7bXckOlGY/s400/GetEqualVegas1.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_t6rV3U9ZEHM/TEYmdqpJolI/AAAAAAAA2sQ/VNgrxxyXWA4/s400/GetEqualVegas.jpg

Eight members of GetEqual, including Robin McGehee and Dan Choi, were arrested in Las Vegas today after blocking traffic on the city's busiest street in protest of perceived inaction on the repeal of DADT by Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV).

(JMG)

Jess

07-25-2010, 06:59 AM

Choi finally fired :

http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/big-gay-welcome-wagon/2010/07/lieutenant-dan-choi-fired-under-dont-ask-dont-tell.html

Toughy

07-25-2010, 11:57 AM

Choi finally fired :

http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/big-gay-welcome-wagon/2010/07/lieutenant-dan-choi-fired-under-dont-ask-dont-tell.html

I wonder how many enlisted and officer soldiers/sailors get an honorable discharge? I wonder if there is a difference in types of discharges based on rank?

Jess

08-12-2010, 06:34 AM

The "end" not coming fast enough. Good soldiers losing careers is such a sad injustice.

From Rachel Maddow, Capt. Hopkins: Just Fired from the Army for Being Gay

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/38668288#38668288

Jess

08-12-2010, 06:40 AM

More Maddow on DADT:

Fighter pilot fights to keep job:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/38668288#38668562

Cadet decides to not join military as result of DADT
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/38668288#38668341

Her view on Obama and DADT
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/38668288#38668429

There are a couple more clips from this segment but I am having issues loading them. Very interesting viewing.

Jess

08-12-2010, 07:26 AM

Maddow encourages our Commander and Chief to "do the right thing"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/38668641#38668641

SuperFemme

08-24-2010, 11:02 AM

A Military Mom's Letter on DADT

While the Pentagon surveys the spouses of military members about the “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy, Servicemembers Legal Defense Network is highlighting the perspectives of military family members affected by the discriminatory policy.

On Friday some 150,000 spouses of military members began to receive the surveys asking them how they would feel if the policy were repealed. SLDN wants the Pentagon to hear from the family members of gay service members, too.

Today's letter is from Nancy S. Manzella, mother to Former Army Sgt. Darren Manzella.

August 24, 2010
Hon. Jeh C. Johnson
General Counsel, U.S. Department of Defense
Co-Chair, Comprehensive Review Working Group

General Carter F. Ham
Commanding General, U.S. Army Europe
Co-Chair, Comprehensive Review Working Group

Dear General Ham and Mr. Johnson:
My name is Nancy Manzella and I have been a mother for 34 years. My husband and I live in rural Western New York where we have made our home at a grape vineyard and have raised three wonderful sons. We now have beautiful daughters-in-law and grandchildren. We are proud to say that we are the all American family.

I also was a military mom for six years. Our son, Darren Manzella, served two tours in the Middle East in support of Operation Iraqi Freedom as a Soldier in the United States Army. He was promoted to sergeant, was a team leader of a medical squad, and conducted more than 100 12-hour patrols in the streets of Baghdad, treating wounds and evacuating casualties of sniper fire and roadside bombs.

Darren was awarded the Combat Medical Badge, honoring him for treating American and Iraqi troops while under fire. He saved lives while putting his own in precarious situations by treating gunshot wounds to blast injuries and more. He was “out there” and our family knew he was in constant danger.

As anyone who is familiar with our military knows, service takes tremendous sacrifices, not only for those who serve, but for their loved ones they leave behind. Our family was always concerned for Darren’s safety, as all military families are for their sons and daughters in uniform. We were also concerned for him because he was openly gay while he served his second tour. We knew that anyone in a war zone was at risk of being harmed at any time, but we also understood that because of “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell,” Darren was especially vulnerable. He could be fired, forced out of the Army, and potentially face harassment and abuse. The stress was incredible.

“Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” not only affects the gay and lesbian service members’ lives, but also throws their loved ones, friends, and all family members’ lives into a stressful nightmare. We cannot get to them if they need us for support, as they are thousands of miles away. The ban impacts so many lives adversely. It causes unbearable stress on everyone concerned, especially with the constant fear that we may slip up, we might inadvertently “out” them even in a simple letter from home. The “All American Families” who have gay or lesbian service members serving are living with this stress every day.

As parents, this law offends us deeply. It tells us that our gay and lesbian children who are in uniform and putting their lives on the line every day, saving lives, are not good enough to serve their country. The law discriminates against family members, forcing fear and anguish into their lives. Our sons and daughters should be judged on their performance, loyalty to country and bravery, not their sexual orientation.

We need to support all American military families – straight or gay.

Our son was fired under “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” and I still believe to this day he would willingly serve his country again if this law ended. I can tell this discharge not only affected his military career, but caused him to question his self-worth. Under the law it doesn’t seem to matter how good you are at your job; how many lives you save or people you support; or how patriotic and dedicated you might be. If you happen to be gay or lesbian, this law says you are somehow “less than.”

The Army teaches honor and integrity and holds those values dear. Despite these values, the Army still isn’t allowed to let our gay and lesbian troops live up to that potential because of “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell.” Under this law, troops are forced to be dishonest, to put integrity to the side, and to live in the closet – with their families closeted beside them – denying who they are.

They need the opportunity to “Be All That They Can Be.”

I am urging you to support the repeal of this unjust law. The values that we gave our kids, and the values the Army told Darren they believe, are really the values we should strive for. But until this law is gone, those values are undermined by unfairness, discrimination and prejudice. I realize that our country is in the midst of great change having to make many crucial decisions. I also understand that the Administration has “a lot on their plate” right now. I’m an American, too, and have many concerns about our country. But, “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” repeal cannot and should not be pushed down the road.

Sincerely,

Nancy S. Manzella

CC: U.S. Sen. Carl M. Levin
Chairman, Senate Armed Services Committee
U.S. Sen. John S. McCain
Ranking Member, Senate Armed Services Committee

U.S. Sen. Joseph I. Lieberman
Member, Senate Armed Services Committee

http://www.advocate.com/authors.aspx?searchterm=Advocate.com%20Editors

Linus

09-10-2010, 12:44 PM

Bingo! DADT declared unconstitutional against 1st Amendment!

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/9/9/900612/-Federal-Judge-Declares-DADT-Unconstitutional

Medusa

09-10-2010, 01:22 PM

Bingo! DADT declared unconstitutional against 1st Amendment!

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/9/9/900612/-Federal-Judge-Declares-DADT-Unconstitutional

Im going to have to read up on this - What's the next step? Can someone appeal this?

Linus

09-10-2010, 01:29 PM

Im going to have to read up on this - What's the next step? Can someone appeal this?

I have learned that in the US everything is appeal-able. There seems to be an abundance of lawyers willing to take that on. :seeingstars:

Whether it will be or not.. that's another question.

Sparkle

09-10-2010, 01:41 PM

/snip from the NYT article
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/10/us/10gays.html

"The decision is among a number of recent rulings that suggest a growing judicial skepticism about measures that discriminate against homosexuals, including rulings against California’s ban on same-sex marriage and a Massachusetts decision striking down a federal law forbidding the federal government to recognize same-sex marriage.

It will not change the policy right away; the judge called for the plaintiffs to submit a proposed injunction limiting the law by Sept. 16th. The defendants will submit their objections to the plan a week after that. Any decision would probably be stayed pending appeals."

/snip: from the HRC press release
http://www.hrc.org/14742.htm

"While many believe repeal of this odious law is a foregone conclusion, the real truth is that this is not yet a done deal,” said Human Rights Campaign President Joe Solmonese. “If the more than 75 percent of fair-minded Americans who recognize this as a failed law do not speak up, a small group of Senators with their own narrow political agendas could win out.”

National Call Campaign to help push through the repeal of DADT
http://bit.ly/bsPVlt.

SuperFemme

09-10-2010, 03:36 PM

Im going to have to read up on this - What's the next step? Can someone appeal this?

the ruling was made by a judge in riverside, ca.
which means that it will go to the 9th Circuit Court.
then to the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals.
then to the SCOTUS.

years and years of moving up the ladder.

Greyson

09-29-2010, 01:04 PM

CQ POLITICS NEWS

Sept. 29, 2010 – 1:40 p.m.

Pentagon Reviews Results of ‘Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell’ Survey
The military is now reviewing results of surveys it requested from servicemembers and their families about ending the ban on openly gay individuals serving in the military.

About 400,000 military personnel were surveyed in addition to members of 150,000 families, Adm. Mike Mullen , chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said Wednesday. Mullen in February forcefully advocated repeal of the “don’t ask, don’t tell” law. But he cautioned that Congress should wait for the Pentagon to “crunch the data” from its survey before it acts to end the policy.

Mullen said the Pentagon now has enough data to be statistically significant. The information, which Mullen said he hoped would help guide the legislative process, will be used in implementing a new policy.

“The reason to conduct the survey is to get objective data from the people affected most by this change,” he said. “It is that data that will highlight issues in terms of implementation and issues that need to be addressed before certification.”

He said the military would look specifically at issues affecting force readiness, training and cohesion.

“These are real things we have to deal with,” Mullen said. He said the troops’ input is important, in part, because “this force has been stretched.”

Mullen noted that the fiscal 2011 defense authorization bill awaiting a vote by the Senate and the version passed by the House would not mandate repeal until the Pentagon’s review of the survey is complete. Nonetheless, he said it would be better if Congress waits until the review of the surveys is completed later this year.

The final results are due on the desk of Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates by Dec. 1.

The Senate blocked consideration of the defense authorization bill last week, in part because of GOP objections over several other measures that Democrats wanted to attach to the bill.

Congress is expected to revisit the issue when it returns in November.

http://www.cqpolitics.com/wmspage.cfm?docID=cqmidday-000003743540

rlin

10-12-2010, 02:51 PM

Breaking News Alert
The New York Times
Tue, October 12, 2010 -- 3:45 PM ET
-----

Judge Orders Injunction Stopping 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell'

A federal judge ordered the government on Tuesday to stop
enforcing the "don't ask, don't tell" policy, ending the
military's 17-year-old ban on openly gay troops.

U.S. District Judge Virginia Phillips's ruling was widely
cheered by gay rights organizations.

Department of Justice attorneys have 60 days to appeal. Legal
experts say the department is under no legal obligation to do
so and could let Judge Phillips's ruling stand.

Read More:
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2010/10/12/us/AP-US-Gays-in-Military.html?emc=na

Jess

10-12-2010, 03:07 PM

Thanks rlin! I couldn't get the whole story from that link, it asked that you register to view it, so here is another link.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/10/12/judge.dont.ask.order/?hpt=T2

Guess not all of the work being done by all of the republicans is so bad afterall.

Rook

10-12-2010, 03:34 PM

Gotta watch for the Appeals....but otherwise
-happy dance- :glasses::mohawk:

Jess

10-13-2010, 07:41 PM

Washington (CNN) - The Obama administration is expected to appeal as soon as Wednesday a federal judge's ruling that halted the Defense Department from enforcing its policy that bars openly gay people from military service, according to senior administration officials familiar with the government's plans.
U.S. District Court Judge Virginia Philips issued an injunction Tuesday that bans enforcement of the "don't ask, don't tell" policy throughout the military services.
While the government has up to 60 days to file an appeal to the Ninth Circuit Court in San Francisco, California, officials familiar with the case said that could happen in the next day or two.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2010/10/13/obama-administration-expected-to-appeal-ruling-on-gays-in-military/

If this is how this administration shows its full support for LGBT then I sure wish they would back off our wagon.

Jess

10-13-2010, 07:47 PM

Other Democrats urge admin to not appeal

http://minnesotaindependent.com/72363/franken-urges-obama-administration-not-to-appeal-dont-ask-dont-tell-repeal

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/10/barney_frank_to_doj_dont_appeal_injunction_til_we. php

Jess

10-14-2010, 05:25 AM

Rachel Maddow tells Obama admin to End DADT or Stop saying you will.

<object width="512" height="288"><param name="movie" value="http://www.hulu.com/embed/j01036UpYwVf0zxpryorcA"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.hulu.com/embed/j01036UpYwVf0zxpryorcA" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="512" height="288" allowFullScreen="true"></embed></object>

http://www.hulu.com/watch/185506/the-obama-administration-maddow-end-dadt-or-stop-saying-you-will

Jess

10-14-2010, 07:30 AM

From the NY Times Opinion page:

http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2010/10/13/the-future-of-dont-ask-dont-tell/dont-ask-dont-tell-is-unconstitutional-and-unnecessary

Jess

10-14-2010, 07:37 AM

In case it wasn't all on the previous link. BTW, sorry the direct video didn't link, I am having issues with performing that feature.

I think this segment was taped before her show last night.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/39642458#39642458

Jess

10-14-2010, 05:31 PM

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/15/us/politics/15military.html?partner=rss&emc=rss

Jess

10-15-2010, 05:11 AM

From Change.org
Christian Ascher
Oct 14, 2010

What’s it going to take for President Obama to finally step up and make good on the promises he’s repeatedly made to the LGBT community? A little over a year ago he stood in front of 2,000 of us at a Human Rights Campaign gala and swore he’d get rid of "Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell" (DADT). He’s reiterated that commitment multiple times since then. Yet when the bill which would have authorized a repeal of the policy was stalled in the Senate last month, he was silent — no phone calls to senators pushing them for a “yes” vote, no public statements about the importance of the bill. Nothing.

Now, when the law has been judged unconstitutional and a federal judge has placed an injunction on it, the President is apparently happy to have the Justice Department defend it — to not only not help make this hateful, homophobic policy, which even the Pentagon wants to get rid of, go away, but actually to fight for its survival.

How, exactly, does this match up with his promise? How does “I will end the policy known as 'Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell,'” morph into defending it in court over and over again and refusing to let it die? As Rachel Maddow said last night, the President needs to step up and support us at this point — or else he needs to stop pretending that he supports us at all.

The New York Times has stated in an editorial that the best way for DADT to end would have been through Congressional action. This is what the President wanted, and the vision he is still apparently clinging to. But Democrats in the Senate were unable to overcome the red-faced blustering of Sen. John McCain and his coterie; the Senate chose to stop all funding for the Pentagon rather than afford gay and lesbian soldiers equality.

The next best solution is for the Justice Department to decline to appeal this injunction and to allow the law to die without further drama. Overwhelming majorities of Americans favor allowing gay and lesbian soldiers to serve openly in the U.S. military — just as they do, without any problem or incident, in the militaries of all our NATO allies. Even Pentagon leadership has come out in favor of repealing the policy. They all agree with Federal Judge Virginia Phillips when she finds that DADT doesn’t increase military readiness or unit cohesion, and that instead it actually destroys them.

All of us out here in the real world of logic and practicality have been saying that since this discriminatory policy was first proposed 17 years ago, but now that the military establishment, the public, and the courts have all caught up, the right thing for the White House to do — if it can’t provide actual leadership on this issue — is to at least follow along quietly and allow the policy to die under this Federal injunction. To defend it by appealing, instead, is to stand with John McCain and support homophobia.

When President Obama promised us at that HRC dinner that he was going to end DADT, he also called on us to “hold him to it.” Now’s the time.

What’s the problem, Mr. President? Everybody wants this. You say you want it. You promised leadership on this very goal, and now it’s being handed to you. Mr. President, let DADT die.

Link to petition:

http://www.change.org/petitions/view/let_dadt_die_once_and_for_all

MsTinkerbelly

11-05-2010, 06:57 PM

BREAKING: LCR appeals DADT injunction stay to U.S. Supreme Court
By Eden James

Per a bulletin from Rex Wockner, the following news just broke:

Attached please find the Log Cabin Republicans’ application to vacate the Ninth Circuit order and related papers that were just filed with the US Supreme Court. Also find below a quote from R. Clarke Cooper, executive director of Log Cabin Republicans, and Dan Woods, White & Case partner who is representing Log Cabin Republicans. Also included below is a short Q&A regarding process moving forward that you may find helpful.

R. Clarke Cooper, Executive Director, Log Cabin Republicans:

“It is unfortunate the Obama Justice Department has forced the Log Cabin Republicans to go to the Supreme Court.”

Dan Woods, White & Case:

“We have today filed an application with the United States Supreme Court asking it to vacate the Ninth Circuit’s order staying Judge Phillips’s injunction pending appeal. We argue in this application that the Ninth Circuit order was arbitrary and an abuse of discretion and should be vacated immediately. We continue to look forward to the day when all Americans can serve in our military without regard to their sexual orientation,” said Dan Woods, White & Case partner who is representing Log Cabin Republicans.

Q: Will the entire Supreme Court be involved in considering whether to vacate the Ninth Circuit order?

A: That is up to Justice Kennedy. He may decide himself or he may refer the application to the full court.

Q: How long will the review take?

A: That is also up to the court. The Court may allow the government the opportunity to respond to our application.

Q: What are the next steps if the Court vacates the ruling/doesn’t vacate the ruling?

A: If the Court vacates the stay order, DADT is dead pending the appeal, and we have for all intents and purposes won. If it doesn’t, we will next move in the Ninth Circuit to expedite the Judge’s decision.

Jess

11-09-2010, 06:44 AM

Keeping up with this issue after mid-terms. I ran across a couple articles of interest. Will continue watching and sending every petition in I come across.

One from Huff Post:

Dems To Cave On DADT Repeal In Lame Duck

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/08/dems-to-cave-on-dadt-repe_n_780371.html

Another from Metro Weekly/ Poliglot:

The (Military) Brass Tacks of Lame-Duck DADT Repeal

http://metroweekly.com/poliglot/2010/11/over-the-weekend-the-military.html

From the Wall Street Journal:

Drive to Repeal 'Don't Ask' Policy All but Lost for Now

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703856504575600851961320666.html

Cyclopea

12-18-2010, 04:15 PM

http://images5.cpcache.com/product/338910495v8_240x240_Front.jpg

Oiler41

12-18-2010, 04:26 PM

WOOOOOOOOO WHOOOOOOOOOO

DADT has almost seen its last days!!!!!!!!

Senate vote, 65 to 31 in favor of ending the policy!!! It will be signed next week by Obama,,what a Christmas present!!! They will leave it in place for 60 days (I think that is what I read earlier). What a day for all active duty GLBT people and veterans!

Glynn

Leigh

12-18-2010, 06:17 PM

Its about damn time :)

Jess

03-02-2011, 09:18 PM

I'm not sure if this has already been posted, but I know DADT is an issue of concern for many folks here.

Preparing for repeal of DADT brings training for Soldiers

http://www.army.mil/-images/2011/02/25/100413/size0-army.mil-100413-2011-02-28-090258.jpg

WASHINGTON (Army News Service, Feb. 25, 2011) -- With pending repeal of the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" law banning gays and lesbians from military service, the Army is implementing a tiered training program for Soldiers worldwide.

Army Chief of Staff Gen. George W. Casey Jr. and Secretary of the Army John McHugh sent a message Feb. 22, to the force about preparations to repeal the law.

"We are confident that you are up to the task, and that we can implement this change in policy by relying on the leadership, professionalism, discipline and respect for each other that have characterized our service for the past 235 years and remain at the core of the United States Army," Casey and McHugh said in the message.

Training for the Force is broken into three tiers. Tier one targets special staff and key individuals like chaplains, lawyers, and inspectors general. Tier two focuses on commanders and supervisors. Tier three will train the rest of the force and is scheduled to begin in early March.

"It is important to emphasize that the current policies remain in effect" for now, McHugh and Casey pointed out in the message. They said the DADT law will stay in place until 60 days after the president, secretary of Defense and the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff certify that the repeal can be implemented "consistent with the standards of military readiness and effectiveness, unit cohesion, and military recruiting and retention."

They added that the repeal date will be widely publicized once it is decided.

Attached to the message was a list of the "Top 10 things Soldiers need to know" about the repeal of DADT:

1. Accessions & Separations Policies: Upon repeal, the Army will no longer separate Soldiers solely on the basis of homosexual acts, a statement that a Soldier is gay, lesbian or bisexual, or marriage to a person of the same sex. Statements about sexual orientation or lawful acts of gay and lesbian conduct will not be a bar to military service or admission to any accession program. Sexual orientation will continue to be a personal and private matter.

2. Standards of Conduct Apply Equally to Everyone: All Soldiers will be held to the same standard of conduct. All members are responsible for upholding and maintaining high standards of the U.S. Military at all times and in all places.

3. Personal Privacy: Commanders may not establish practices that physically segregate Soldiers according to sexual orientation. Commanders do have the discretion to alter billeting assignments to accommodate privacy concerns of individuals on a case-by-case basis where it is in the interest of maintaining morale, good order and discipline, and is consistent with performance of the mission.

4. Moral and Religious Concerns: There will be no changes regarding any Soldier's free exercise of religious beliefs, nor are there any changes to policies concerning the Chaplain Corps and its duties. The Chaplain Corps' First Amendment freedoms and its duty to care for all will not change. Soldiers will continue to respect and serve with others who may hold different views and beliefs.

5. Benefits: There will be no changes to eligibility standards for military benefits and services. The Defense of Marriage Act prohibits the Federal Government from recognizing any same-sex marriage, so same sex partners do not qualify as dependents for many military benefits and services. A same-sex partner should be treated the same as an unrelated third party (e.g. girlfriend, boyfriend). All Soldiers will continue to have various benefits for which they may designate any beneficiary regardless of relationship.

6. Equal Opportunity: Sexual orientation will not be placed alongside race, color, religion, sex and national origin as a class under the Military Equal Opportunity Program and therefore will not be dealt with through the MEO complaint process. All Soldiers, regardless of sexual orientation are entitled to an environment free from personal, social, or institutional barriers that prevent Soldiers from rising to the highest level of responsibility possible. Harassment or abuse of any kind, including that based on sexual orientation, is unacceptable and will be dealt with through command or inspector general channels.

7. Duty Assignments: There are no changes to assignment policy. All Soldiers will continue to be eligible for world-wide assignment without consideration of sexual orientation. Soldiers assigned to duty, or otherwise serving, in countries in which gay and lesbian conduct is prohibited will abide by the guidance provided to them by their local commanders.

8. Medical Policy: There are no changes to existing medical policies.

9. Release and Service Commitments: There will be no new policy to allow for release from service commitments for Soldiers opposed to repeal of DADT or to serving with gay or lesbian Soldiers.

10. Collection and Retention of Sexual Orientation Data: Sexual orientation is a personal and private matter. Commanders will not request, collect, or maintain information about the sexual orientation of Soldiers.

Soon

03-17-2011, 02:40 PM

Army Training Slides Outline 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' Repeal Implementation (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/16/army-dadt-training-slides_n_836808.html)

WASHINGTON -- The Army has released its marching orders to train soldiers on how military life will look after the repeal of the "don't ask, don't tell" policy banning openly gay service members.

In a 30-page PowerPoint presentation obtained by HuffPost, the Army will enumerate for its troops -- from the front lines in Afghanistan to those sitting behind a desk back home -- the basics of how repeal will work, while underscoring that its purpose is "NOT to change beliefs."

Each military branch is writing its own training slides, and the Army version resembles previously released materials prepared by the Navy
and the Air Force.

All of them hammer home on each page the mandate from Pentagon leaders that change will come with, "Leadership -- Professionalism -- Discipline -- Respect."

Last fall, the Pentagon outlined the basics of how it would implement President Barack Obama's promised repeal of DADT in a 95-page report that accompanied a much larger review of the issue.

In December, Congress repealed the 17-year-old policy, and the next month, the Pentagon outlined the steps it would take to comply with the new law.

The military services began training senior officers, chaplains, lawyers and counselors on the new policy last month. But the bulk of troops will be briefed on how openly gay service members will be integrated over the next few weeks.

The Army, the largest of the services, plans to train its 565,000 active-duty troops by mid-July and 567,000 members of the Guard and Reserve by mid-August.

That isn't fast enough for Aubrey Sarvis, executive director of the Servicemembers Legal Defense Network.

"We believe training can be wrapped up by the end of next month," Sarvis said, noting that there will be an additional 60 days for training that may take place after the White House and Pentagon leaders certify the military is good to go on repeal.

Among the "guiding principles" laid out in the Army slides: "standards of conduct apply to everyone regardless of sexual orientation," soldiers should "treat each other with dignity and respect" and "there is no expectation to change religious or moral views."

The document also notes that the Defense of Marriage Act, which Democrats in Congress launched a campaign to overturn on Wednesday, will still bar soldiers in legally sanctioned same-sex marriages from receiving spousal medical, housing and other benefits taken for granted by straight service members.

Alex Nicholson, the executive director of the gay-rights group Servicemembers United, said the Army training presentation appeared to be in line with those prepared by the other branches.

"What needs further reinforcing, however, is the notion that other types of rule violations should not be used carelessly to try to trump up charges against gay and lesbian troops, as is being done in one prominent Navy case right now in South Carolina," Nicholson said. "All branches need a stronger emphasis on the fact that 'misconduct' does not have one definition for gay troops and another definition for straight troops."

And for troops who can't stand the new rules? Follow orders anyway. As one slide notes, there is, "No policy for early discharge based on: Opposition to repeal (or) Opposition to serving or living with gay, lesbian or bisexual Service members."