Why do we call the US America?

[Apocalipstic]

The continent the Unites States of America resides within is called America.

North, South, Central AMERICA

When we call the USA America we disregard every other country in the Americas.

It is dismissive, privileged and probably racist as well.

People in many other countries in the Americas hate the US for this reason alone.

Why do we insist on this?

[AtLast]

The continent the Unites States of America resides within is called America.

North, South, Central AMERICA

When we call the USA America we disregard every other country in the Americas.

It is dismissive, privileged and probably racist as well.

People in many other countries in the Americas hate the US for this reason alone.

Why do we insist on this?

I so agree with you, here. This has always bothered me. I think (but do not do so with certainty) that early maps drawn by Amerigo Vespucci of the American continent where the United States eventually were formed has something to do with this.

And, well.... priviledge, class and racism could be involved in the continuation of this.

Personally, I don't insist on this and usually feel that those that do are ignorant.

[UofMfan]

Yes we do. Meaning, those of us who live in the other Americas do hate the US for this.

I currently reside in South America (not Brazil though), and have made that mistake a few times, mainly due to the 25+ years that I lived in the States, shame on me!

It is arrogant, ignorant, rude and dismissive. It mainly comes from the feeling of entitlement/privilege that most US citizens share.

[Bit]

I think it's because people in Europe were used to calling it "America" long before there were any independent countries here, and all the other countries took different names... but since we were already being called "America," when the official name became the United States of America people just continued to use the shorter "America" out of habit.

I also think that our government over the past couple hundred years has been rather... arrogant (Manifest Destiny, anyone?)... and has probably encouraged this. Certainly in modern times our media and popular entertainment industries have encouraged it.

[apretty]

i say US. (as in, you-ess)

i think referring to 'america' sounds less than informed. for example: "this is america: _______(fill in the blank)/you need to speak english!/etc"

maybe it's regional.

[Rufusboi]

Why do people all over the world refer to those who reside in the United States of America as Americans? Why not refer to those residents as United Statesians? How do people in other countries of the continent of America refer to United Statesians, by the way? At least when they are trying to be polite? :toothache:

[UofMfan]

"I think it's because people in Europe were used to calling it "America" long before there were any independent countries here"

I am sorry, but I take offense to this part of your post. Where exactly is here?

And when Europeans called it America they were referring to the continent, not the US. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amerigo_Vespucci

[Apocalipstic]

Yes we do. Meaning, those of us who live in the other Americas do hate the US for this.

I currently reside in South America (not Brazil though), and have made that mistake a few times, mainly due to the 25+ years that I lived in the States, shame on me!

It is arrogant, ignorant, rude and dismissive. It mainly comes from the feeling of entitlement/privilege that most US citizens share.

I grew up in Argentina, the HATE it that people from the US think they (we) are the only Americans.

I think it's because people in Europe were used to calling it "America" long before there were any independent countries here, and all the other countries took different names... but since we were already being called "America," when the official name became the United States of America people just continued to use the shorter "America" out of habit.

I also think that our government over the past couple hundred years has been rather... arrogant (Manifest Destiny, anyone?)... and has probably encouraged this. Certainly in modern times our media and popular entertainment industries have encouraged it.

Agreed! very arrogant.


When I visit Europe today, they say the US.

Expats say "the States"

Brazil is also "The United States of Brazil" , so it can be confusing?

i say US. (as in, you-ess)

i think referring to 'america' sounds less than informed. for example: "this is america: _______(fill in the blank)/you need to speak english!/etc"

maybe it's regional.


I say it like you do, I think it is an important distinction.


Oh and "this is America, so you should".... is so incredibly arrogant there are no words.....

Thank you for mentioning that!

I don't automatically assume people who say America for the US do it on purpose, I try to think that maybe they have not thought about it?

[Apocalipstic]

Why do people all over the world refer to those who reside in the United States of America as Americans? Why not refer to those residents as United Statesians? How do people in other countries of the continent of America refer to United Statesians, by the way? At least when they are trying to be polite? :toothache:

Everyone in the world does not refer to us as Americans.

I travel a lot, and many people do say Unites Stasians in their language, like Spanish for example.

Estados Unidenses in Spanish speaking South America, or Norte Americanos which does not say what country.

In Europe I hear US.

[suebee]

On "American" sites I use the term American for brevity and to simplify things. I've used the term "United Statsians" for a couple of decades now. What little I've heard has led me to believe it's a much bigger deal in South America than in North America. Canada is a pretty easy-going country. We don't get riled up about the smaller things in life, but I don't believe that the term "American" should apply to only people from the United States. Not a BIG deal, just a little one, but yes - I do believe that there are a multitude of little deals that give the world the impression that the United States is arrogant. Not necessarily individual people, but the country as a whole.

[Apocalipstic]

"I think it's because people in Europe were used to calling it "America" long before there were any independent countries here"

I am sorry, but I take offense to this part of your post. Where exactly is here?

And when Europeans called it America they were referring to the continent, not the US. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amerigo_Vespucci

Maybe before there were individual countries?

[Apocalipstic]

On "American" sites I use the term American for brevity and to simplify things. I've used the term "United Statsians" for a couple of decades now. What little I've heard has led me to believe it's a much bigger deal in South America than in North America. Canada is a pretty easy-going country. We don't get riled up about the smaller things in life, but I don't believe that the term "American" should apply to only people from the United States. Not a BIG deal, just a little one, but yes - I do believe that there are a multitude of little deals that give the world the impression that the United States is arrogant. Not necessarily individual people, but the country as a whole.

So, South American's are uptight for resenting US citizens feeling like we deserve to be the only American's?

Mexico is kind of in North America too.

[suebee]

So, South American's are uptight for resenting US citizens feeling like we deserve to be the only American's?

Mexico is kind of in North America too.

I'm not sure what you're saying here. I don't know about Mexico so I didn't speak about it.

[Melissa]

Everyone in the world does not refer to us as Americans.

I travel a lot, and many people do say Unites Stasians in their language, like Spanish for example.

Estados Unidenses in Spanish speaking South America, or Norte Americanos which does not say what country.

In Europe I hear US.



I'm from England and all I ever remember hearing is America and Americans, for the most part. The only time I heard any one refer to the US as "The States" was other Americans. But that's just my experience. I'm not as well travelled as you :) Although I do remember the French calling Americans....well, never mind. That's probably not repeatable. Melissa

[UofMfan]

I suppose we South Americans are just uptight and picky about accuracy. I have also encountered this from people in Central America, by the way.

Apocalipstic, yes, before they we had revolutions and became independent and individual countries.

[Apocalipstic]

I'm from England and all I ever remember hearing is America and Americans, for the most part. The only time I heard any one refer to the US as "The States" was other Americans. But that's just my experience. I'm not as well travelled as you :) Although I do remember the French calling Americans....well, never mind. That's probably not repeatable. Melissa

In London I usually hear US, but they seem to abreviate a lot! :) UK, US, EU and so forth....

And yes, I have only heard people from the US or Canada call the US "the States" and it is only from people who have lived outside the US.

[Semantics]

I'm from England and all I ever remember hearing is America and Americans, for the most part. The only time I heard any one refer to the US as "The States" was other Americans.

What do the people of England call us if not American?

Citizens of the United States of America?

If not Americans, what should we call ourselves?

[UofMfan]

In normal every day conversation I mostly call it "The States".

[Apocalipstic]

I suppose we South Americans are just uptight and picky about accuracy. I have also encountered this from people in Central America, by the way.

Apocalipstic, yes, before they we had revolutions and became independent and individual countries.

Before San Martin and Bolivar!

We are all Americans South, Central and North.

I think it is important that when we are speaking of the US in particular we say US.

It seems pretty racist, classist and arrogant to say otherwise.

[Apocalipstic]

What do the people of England call us if not American?

Citizens of the United States of America?

If not Americans, what should we call ourselves?

My friends in London say "from the US" or "Yanks" or Yankees which outside the US tends to mean all people from the US, not Southerners.

What should Argentines call themselves, or Mexicans, or Canadians, or Chileans? They are all Americans too.

[Apocalipstic]

In normal every day conversation I mostly call it "The States".

I always have too, but a Brazilian friend busted me on it :)

[Melissa]

My friends in London say "from the US" or "Yanks" or Yankees which outside the US tends to mean all people from the US, not Southerners.

What should Argentines call themselves, or Mexicans, or Canadians, or Chileans? They are all Americans too.

My Grandfather ---> Yanks, damn yanks, bloody yanks.......

[femmy1]

I am from Central America and the only way I ever heard the US referred to was..Los Estados Unidos... and it's residents were called gringos.. I know gringo is not liked or PC but I am just providing a reference.

I have never even thought of this place as anything but America but I can see why this subject could be thought of in all the ways it has been portrayed.

I will think about this because United Stasians just sounds wierd to me !! I like human haha. I like like a citizen of the world. An earthling.. lol !!

f1~

[UofMfan]

Well, I will be sure not to do that when I travel to Brazil later this year :)

[Apocalipstic]

I am not trying to make anyone angry or challenge anyone's identity, but people on our continent HATE us for thinking and saying we are The Americans.

If I say American, I mean from the Americas. :) America the continent as a whole. :)

It is a small thing that we should think about in a good way. In a "how can we be more culturally aware" way.

:)

And if we did everything the English wanted us to, we would still be a colony.

[Melissa]

What do the people of England call us if not American?

Citizens of the United States of America?

If not Americans, what should we call ourselves?

The people of England call you lots of things lol. But all I heard was America, Americans, Yanks. To us you are just dear old Americans. This brit apologizes for offending the citizens who reside in other parts of the continent of America and not in the particular part also known as The United States. Although if Texas secedes what do we call you all then. The United (Minus Texas) States. I love Texas by the way. It is is own little country. I think I was a Texan in a former life. :)

Mel

[Apocalipstic]

I am from Central America and the only way I ever heard the US referred to was..Los Estados Unidos... and it's residents were called gringos.. I know gringo is not liked or PC but I am just providing a reference.

I have never even thought of this place as anything but America but I can see why this subject could be thought of in all the ways it has been portrayed.

I will think about this because United Stasians just sounds wierd to me !! I like human haha. I like like a citizen of the world. An earthling.. lol !!

f1~


I have heard Gringos too. Thank you.

Unites Statesians is awkward I agree. I like human too! :) We are all ONE.

[Semantics]

My friends in London say "from the US" or "Yanks" or Yankees which outside the US tends to mean all people from the US, not Southerners.

What should Argentines call themselves, or Mexicans, or Canadians, or Chileans? They are all Americans too.

I wasn't disagreeing.

I was just curious as to what her friends did call people from the US.

Mine always use "Yank"- but they also always use that tone and I'd really prefer to be called something else. :lol2:

[Selenay]

I think Semantics asked a really important question:
If not Americans, what should we call ourselves?

[Apocalipstic]

The people of England call you lots of things lol. But all I heard was America, Americans, Yanks. To us you are just dear old Americans. This brit apologizes for offending the citizens who reside in other parts of the continent of America and not in the particular part also known as The United States. Although if Texas secedes what do we call you all then. The United (Minus Texas) States. I love Texas by the way. It is is own little country. I think I was a Texan in a former life. :)

Mel

What a lovely answer! Thank you!

I usually say Brits, or from the UK, or English, Scottish and so forth for you. :)

[Apocalipstic]

I think Semantics asked a really important question:
If not Americans, what should we call ourselves?




I say I live in the US or say I am a US citizen.

[femmy1]

I think Semantics asked a really important question:
If not Americans, what should we call ourselves?



Maybe we should call ourselves the USA-icans ...or USA-ers... or USA-ites.. I could go on and on heheh

f1~

[Selenay]

I say I live in the US or say I am a US citizen.

Yes, but that's a mouthful.

How would you make that akin to what other nations have (e.g.: I'm Canadian. I'm British. I'm Cuban. I'm Russian. I'm Swedish. I'm Australian. I'm Nordic.)? I'm Statesish? Statian?

[UofMfan]

Since the arrogance and ignorance started way before our time:

"The former British colonies first used the country's modern name in the Declaration of Independence, the "unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America" " ~ Wikepedia

You can call yourselves anything you want. Most of us who have traveled and have been exposed to other cultures will call you "Estadunidenses", or Gringos when you piss us off.

[Toughy]

it is Olympic Games time..............and the chant that is always heard at the Olympics and any other international sporting event is U S A .

I try to never ever never say American(s) when referring to citizens of the United States of America. I'm sure somewhere on the net I will have said Americans. My default language is the 'US' or 'folks from the US'.

When I was an expat, I always said I was from the 'US' or 'the States'. For those that don't know, I lived in New Zealand for a year back in 2002-2003.

[Random]

I say..

American from the US...

For me.. American doesn't belong just to the USA..

But lingustily.. USAian.. just doesn't flow off the tongue..

[HeartBreak Kid]

So here is *MY answer.................... the "logical" reason to *me is.......

The United States is refered to as "America" becuase it is a singular country....It is my experience when talking to those from South America, Or Central America "they" have Identified themselves by their Country of Origin...then as a point of Geographical reference will say Central, or South....

However, if I am asked where Im from in an international forum I say the US....but I have also been known to refer to MYSELF* as an American......on a side note I Identify as a NEW YORKER.....and thats a WHOLE 'nother thread......
:cheer:

[Enchantress]

Our fore fathers coined the term "Americans" in our Declaration of Independence. Hence, we (Northern Americans) identify with this term. Obviously, we are not the only Americans. There is South American and Central American as well.

To say that citizens of the United States are egotistical or entitled because they call themselves Americans, is, I believe, incorrect. Instead we are proud, we are compassionate and we are (I like to think) welcoming.

I am North American. Let's say you're Columbian (or Brazilian just for fun), then, obviously, you (used universally of course) would be South American. ; )

I don't believe that there is going to be any sort of major movement any time soon to change the use of this term, and really, why should there be? What is really important is that everyone realize that there are others who are of the Americas as well and have the right to identify as such (obviously sans the US Citizen part).

[Enchantress]

Most of us who have traveled and have been exposed to other cultures will call you "Estadunidenses", or Gringos when you piss us off.

Tsk, tsk, tsk. ; )

[UofMfan]

Ms. Enchantress, I personally don't know any Columbians....but I have heard they are easily mistaken for Brazilians : )

I don't believe there is going to be a movement or any kind. I mean, we are dealing with the same arrogance and entitlement of those who ran American Indians from their own land, so why expect any changes?

Edited to say that I do know some Colombians though.

[Enchantress]

Ms. Enchantress, I personally don't know any Columbians....but I have heard they are easily mistaken for Brazilians : )

I don't believe there is going to be a movement or any kind. I mean, we are dealing with the same arrogance and entitlement of those who ran American Indians from their own land, so why expect any changes?

Edited to say that I do know some Colombians though.

Aye dios mio. Here we go.. : )

[UofMfan]

Tsk, tsk, tsk. ; )


¿Qué? : )

[Enchantress]

Ms. Enchantress, I personally don't know any Columbians....but I have heard they are easily mistaken for Brazilians : )

I don't believe there is going to be a movement or any kind. I mean, we are dealing with the same arrogance and entitlement of those who ran American Indians from their own land, so why expect any changes?

Edited to say that I do know some Colombians though.

Why should we, generations later, be held responsible for this act? What makes us (Northern Americans of the now) so arrogant and entitled? Let's face it, there are people of all different backgrounds, countries and such that feel they are entitled and treat others with arrogance. So, I believe that you're simply generalizing at this point. No?

[UofMfan]

Why should we, generations later, be held responsible for this act? What makes us (Northern Americans of the now) so arrogant and entitled? Let's face it, there are people of all different backgrounds, countries and such that feel they are entitled and treat others with arrogance. So, I believe that you're simply generalizing at this point. No?

For the same reason that generations later you gave women the right to vote, the civil rights movement was successful and hopefully one day soon we, the GLBT community, will have the same rights as everyone else.

And yes, I am generalizing, only to rile you up : )

[Selenay]

Ms. Enchantress, I personally don't know any Columbians....but I have heard they are easily mistaken for Brazilians : )



Omg i heard jews have horns like the devil

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/money/whisper.jpg

[Enchantress]

Selenay, just for clarification, the statement above (not yours, but UofM's) was an inside joke between the two of us. It is not in any way meant as racist, bigoted or malicious (even though without having inside knowledge you might somehow see it differently). So, please, do not take it as such.

Thanks!

[Waldo]

Are you kidding me with this?

Yeah, it might be dismissive of other countries of the Americas. Classist? I think that's a stretch. Privileged? um. er... to whom? What on earth makes you think that anyone from Cananda, Mexico, Brazil, Colombia, Argentina or any other country in the Americas would WANT to be included in the term "American" these days?

But um, among my circle of friends, associates, colleagues and whatnot? I don't know but a handful of people who would call themselves "American". You know the few I do hear it from? Folks in border states. Folks of a Republican bent. The very young and oh who else? Newly naturalized citizens oh so very proud to "be an American!" by gum.

And when I travel abroad, which I do fairly often these days, I hear folks use "American" in a very dismissive way in reference to folks from "The States". "Oh, she's an American." And lest you think I'm okay with that crap? I correct them every time. "No, I'm from the States" or in the Bush years I was known for being snide and saying "Well from the US, but I voted for Gore" or something similar.

And finally??? My god, what else can we turn into a class issue on this site?

[apretty]

And finally??? My god, what else can we turn into a class issue on this site?

dang, diab/aldo! can't we have a class issue if we wanna have a class issue?
:farmchicken:

[Waldo]

dang, diab/aldo! can't we have a class issue if we wanna have a class issue?
:farmchicken:

Oh fine. Go right ahead, I am getting used to banging my head against the desk.

[sharkchomp]

I think it is important that when we are speaking of the US in particular we say US.

It seems pretty racist, classist and arrogant to say otherwise.

Apocalipstic

I know you personally and I respect you and adore you but I just don't buy this. I think those words are huge - racist, classist and arrogant and because I call myself an American doesn't mean I put a check mark by each one. I was raised and taught in school by TEACHERS to call myself an American. I've never heard of a United Statian til this thread. Perhaps not knowing this stuff makes me ignorant but I'd say it's a far leap from racist, classist and arrogant.

I respect your point of view. I know you've lived outside of the United States and that you're well traveled. I am not and honestly, I am not a big travelor. I think I'll stick to the United States and Canada for fishing on occassion.

I'd love for you and Mr C to come over, pick your poison(beverage) and you can tell me why I'm wrong :)

~~~shark~~~~~~~

[Apocalipstic]

So, even though people in the rest of the Americas find it loathsome and arrogant that we insist that we are the "Americans" and not them, we say that since "American" is easier to verbalize and since we learned to say "American" in school it is not worth even giving a thought to how it might make sound or feel to another American who lives in Columbia or Panama or Honduras.

Nice.

I know many of you personally and I really think it is worth at least some consideration. It makes us and our country look like assholes.
For me it is an important distinction.

Is it a class issue??? Good question. Maybe more of an arrogant, we have always done it this way, it is easier, I don't think I should have to change for anyone else thing with some racism below the surface. There are indeed wealthy people in outside the US who hate us calling ourselves Americans, so maybe that takes classism off the table?

I think the thought that people outside the US except Canada are fussy for resenting us for this is really really arrogant. Yes, I know we were brought up to think this and taught to think this in school, but the world is changing, we need to catch up.

[Apocalipstic]

I do want to say that I understand that for many of us this might be a low priority. I am just happy that we can have these discussions and hope that they will make us think a bit.

I thank everyone who is participating is this and other discussions like it.

:)

[sharkchomp]

Now wait... are we not the United States of America that live in North America? Or are we just the United States. Does it not say on our declaration of independence, the United States of America?

I don't mind learning something new or looking at things in different ways, but why is it that I'm all the sudden racist, classist and arrogant? Perhaps I'm ignorant, plain fucking stupid or just misinformed. I invite discussions and expanding my mind but I loathe doing it from the stand point of "didn't you know you suck?".

I still adore you Jen and respect you immensely, we're just talking here.

~~~shark~~~~~~~~

[Apocalipstic]

Now wait... are we not the United States of America that live in North America? Or are we just the United States. Does it not say on our declaration of independence, the United States of America?

I don't mind learning something new or looking at things in different ways, but why is it that I'm all the sudden racist, classist and arrogant? Perhaps I'm ignorant, plain fucking stupid or just misinformed. I invite discussions and expanding my mind but I loathe doing it from the stand point of "didn't you know you suck?".

I still adore you Jen and respect you immensely, we're just talking here.

~~~shark~~~~~~~~



Sorry I came off so strongly...I owe you a drink my friend! I do feel deeply about this, but understand this may be the first time you have thought about it :), and that it is likely not a priority for you.

Sure we are American! and so is everyone else who lives in North, South and Central America.

I think as a country, if we refered to our country as the "US", instead of as "America" it is more respectful to all the other American's and it might help our image overseas.

I get that you might think what other countries think of us is not important, but it really is even if you don't plan to travel thoughhhhh....the fishing in Argentina and Chile is unbelievable, I will show you pictures that will make you weep :). The Argentines and Chileans are American's too.

I think it helps us all be more safe when traveling and as a nation here at home if we try to be respectful of the rest of the world. We are not the "only" Americans.


Am I making sense?

[Boots13]

Hmmm, seems like both continents have been called America since the 1500's , or so...
wouldnt that make us all Americans?

yet even today Italians dont call it America but rather Stati Uniti

" Amerigo Vespucci was a Florentine merchant and navigator who made at least two transatlantic trips to the New World, voyages that inspired cartographer Martin Wardseemüller to label the new continent "America" in 1507. Vespucci was employed by the Florentine Medici family as a representative for their operations in Seville, Spain. He went from supplying ships to joining the expedition of Alonso Ojeda as a navigator. Although the record is unclear, it is generally accepted that Vespucci sailed with Ojeda to the northeastern coast of South America in 1499, under the flag of Spain. He made a second voyage in 1502. The story that he reached South America in 1497 is held to be apocryphal; the story that he made a fourth voyage in 1504 is also considered suspect. Somehow an account of a 1497 voyage was published, and Wardseemüller came to believe that Vespucci had commanded the expedition and had reached the New World before Christopher Columbus who found the mainland in 1498. Wardseemüller named the continent America and the label stuck. "

[Apocalipstic]

Hmmm, seems like both continents have been called America since the 1500's , or so...
wouldnt that make us all Americans?

yet even today Italians dont call it America but rather Stati Uniti

" Amerigo Vespucci was a Florentine merchant and navigator who made at least two transatlantic trips to the New World, voyages that inspired cartographer Martin Wardseemüller to label the new continent "America" in 1507. Vespucci was employed by the Florentine Medici family as a representative for their operations in Seville, Spain. He went from supplying ships to joining the expedition of Alonso Ojeda as a navigator. Although the record is unclear, it is generally accepted that Vespucci sailed with Ojeda to the northeastern coast of South America in 1499, under the flag of Spain. He made a second voyage in 1502. The story that he reached South America in 1497 is held to be apocryphal; the story that he made a fourth voyage in 1504 is also considered suspect. Somehow an account of a 1497 voyage was published, and Wardseemüller came to believe that Vespucci had commanded the expedition and had reached the New World before Christopher Columbus who found the mainland in 1498. Wardseemüller named the continent America and the label stuck. "

Absolutely! We are all Americans. North, Central and South America...all of us American.

[sharkchomp]

Sorry I came off so strongly...I owe you a drink my friend! I do feel deeply about this, but understand this may be the first time you have thought about it :), and that it is likely not a priority for you.

Sure we are American! and so is everyone else who lives in North, South and Central America.

I think as a country, if we refered to our country as the "US", instead of as "America" it is more respectful to all the other American's and it might help our image overseas.

I get that you might think what other countries think of us is not important, but it really is even if you don't plan to travel thoughhhhh....the fishing in Argentina and Chile is unbelievable, I will show you pictures that will make you weep :). The Argentines and Chileans are American's too.

I think it helps us all be more safe when traveling and as a nation here at home if we try to be respectful of the rest of the world. We are not the "only" Americans.


Am I making sense?

No worries dear friend!!!! You're absolutely right, I have never once thought about this. I was taught that I am an American. I say that with pride. I love my country. I am often shocked at how much the world hates us. I found this out first hand when I traveled to Jamaca(conflict, guards, locals told us to go home, uncool!). I can promise you that I won't go back there. As far as our politics go, I wish we would leave the world alone. Help those in need such as Haiti but concentrate on our own problems.

I do think it's important what other nations think of us, but does me calling myself a US citizen rather than an American really make that big of an impact? I would think the actions of our government make a far greater impact. That said, I would hope my calling myself an American would in no way make anyone in another country feel negated. In fact, if we all are Americans here in the West, then it's a true statement, albeit a very general one.

So, if I'm ever in another country (unlikely unless Canada), I'll be sure to say I am from the United States for the sake of peace and respect. And I can't wait to see your fishing pictures!!!!!!!

~~~shark~~~~~~~~

[Bit]

"I think it's because people in Europe were used to calling it "America" long before there were any independent countries here"

I am sorry, but I take offense to this part of your post. Where exactly is here?

And when Europeans called it America they were referring to the continent, not the US. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amerigo_Vespucci

When I said, "before there were any independent countries here" I meant on the two continents named America, and I myself made it pretty doggoned clear in that post that Europeans referred to the continent as "America." I really don't see how anyone could have missed that, given the rest of my post... but hey, I italicized it this time just to make it clear.

[suebee]

I do want to say that I understand that for many of us this might be a low priority. I am just happy that we can have these discussions and hope that they will make us think a bit.

I thank everyone who is participating is this and other discussions like it.

:)

Priority/Not priority: I don't see it as either. I see it more as an exercise in self-awareness. Since the U.S. has such a huge influence in the world, since the U.S. has such an overwhelming stake in communications, entertainment etc. it can be hard for people living in the U.S. to imagine how the country is seen from outside of it's boundaries. Honestly I'm surprised that there as many "Americans" as there have been who have come on this thread and seem to have considered this question already. I live on the U.S./Canadian border, interact with my neighbours to the south on an almost daily basis, and seldom see as much awareness of this issue as I have here.

It seems kinda like the topic of white privilege: when it's all normal for you then it's pretty damned hard to think of how it's perceived by others, affects others, affects you yourself.

Great discussion. Great thread.

[Write14u]

snips:

Sure we are American! and so is everyone else who lives in North, South and Central America.

I think as a country, if we refered to our country as the "US", instead of as "America" it is more respectful to all the other American's and it might help our image overseas.


I think it helps us all be more safe when traveling and as a nation here at home if we try to be respectful of the rest of the world. We are not the "only" Americans.


Totally getting your point here ... and with the thread as well.
But, as Waldo said, it doesn't seem like anyone from South or Central America or Canada is rushing to call themselves "Americans" and who could blame them, based on the rep those from the U.S. have abroad. (although...can we say STEREOTYPE, much? Is every person from the U.S a loud obnoxious "American?")

Also, for any Canadians, Central/South Americans (and I'm legit asking this) ... what is stopping you from calling yourselves Americans if you want to since you ARE indeed Americans?

Back to what you said about saying "from the U.S." ... well, according to the Declaration of Independence, the name of this country *is* the United States of America. It seems like most countries have a derivative to refer to its citizens, such as Argentinian, Brazilian, Chilean, Canadian, Guatamalen, Columbian. "American" does seem like a natural progression for people from the U.S.
I, too, wonder what other name would work (without being derogatory) as United Statsian a) seems unwieldy and b) leaves out what we're the united states of. Maybe our forefathers should have called us the United States in the Americas. But I don't think all of them were that well traveled enough to understand how much more there was out there.

How does it make people from the U.S. dismissive, arrogant and possibly racist if they choose to call themselves Americans ... if those from South and Central America don't choose to call themselves that?

I certainly understand and respect the viewpoint of others who are also obviously Americans, but I don't think U.S. citizens identifying themselves as Americans means they're racist or arrogant or dismissive unless they're denying someone else the right to do so as well.

And speaking of arrogant ... Yanks, gringos? ... That's just stereotyping and making generalizations, as well.

I think awareness of this issue is a great thing to have. But it seems to me the correct word usage might be "unaware" as opposed to dismissive. Simply because someone was taught they were an "American," doesn't mean they're being dismissive of others. Let's teach people instead of simply generalizing about an entire nation.

And for the record, I ascribe the U.S.'s bad rep abroad to the same "Jeff Foxworthy theory" about the South. He jokes that it's "always the least intelligent among us that ends up on TV." I'm sure there are plenty of people from the U.S. who travel the world without drawing the word obnoxious, but damn those idiots that give us all a bad reputation.

Just my thoughts and opinions anyway.

[Unndunn]

When I saw the title of this thread I assumed it was a question, but that was before I read the first few posts and saw that there was already an answer given. Is everyone with a different opinion on this subject an arrogant, classist, racist? I hope not.

My reason for referring to my country as the United States of America or my nationality as American is because that's what our country is named. When the founding fathers of the USA wrote our Declaration of Independence, that's what they called it. Were the people of South America referring to any of their countries as "America" at the same time, or calling themselves "Americans"? If so, Jefferson and Adams and Franklin and everyone else involved back then owe them an apology.

My understanding has been that the USA is the only country with "America" in its title. If I'm wrong I'm sure someone here will point it out. I think we shorten the name of our country because it's easier to say.

[UofMfan]

My reason for referring to my country as the United States of America or my nationality as American is because that's what our country is named. When the founding fathers of the USA wrote our Declaration of Independence, that's what they called it. Were the people of South America referring to any of their countries as "America" at the same time, or calling themselves "Americans"? If so, Jefferson and Adams and Franklin and everyone else involved back then owe them an apology.

My understanding has been that the USA is the only country with "America" in its title. If I'm wrong I'm sure someone here will point it out. I think we shorten the name of our country because it's easier to say.

I respect your reason for calling yourself American, I do. In the end you call yourself an American just because it is easier, shortening and all, not because it is what your country was named, otherwise you would have to call yourself a United States of America, right? So it all boils down to easy and not accuracy. I understand this, as I do this many times myself (my entire family are all US Citizens) but basically, what I think Apocalisptic was trying to do was raise awareness. The forefathers also wrote about the right to own slaves and such, this doesn't mean they owe anyone an apology, that would be impossible. In any event, they did not name the US America, since that was already taken by an entire continent, did they?

I think what is lacking is the knowledge that America is a continent. I did some consulting work for a Canadian firm and they always made the distinction and that made me aware that this was a US thing. Whenever they referred to the way they did things in Canada or the US as opposed to here in Colombia, they always said...oh this is how this or that is done in North America. I found that very respectful.


When I said, "before there were any independent countries here" I meant on the two continents named America, and I myself made it pretty doggoned clear in that post that Europeans referred to the continent as "America." I really don't see how anyone could have missed that, given the rest of my post... but hey, I italicized it this time just to make it clear.

Thank you for the clarification, albeit a little snarky. Judging by your clarification, I must be pretty darn stupid, he he :doh:

[Waldo]

otherwise you would have to call yourself a United States of America, right?


Right. Because folks from Mexico refer to themselves as "United Mexican States Citizens" (or more likely Estados Unidos Mexicanos, but you get my drift)

And people from Colombia? as "Republican of Colombia"

And how about those from Brazil? as "Federative Republicans of Brazil"

And those from Germany? "Federal Republican of Germany"

And how about those zany occupants of France? "French Republicans"

And let's not forget the good people of "The People's Republic of China" (Yeah... what would that be? "A Person of the Republic of China" - rolls right off the tongue)

Again, I realize I didn't pay a lot of attention in school (I'm sure it'll come as a shock to you all that I thought I knew it all as a teenager too), but I do believe the US(ofA) was recognized as a country before any other foreign colony on the North or South American continents. And yes, the founding fathers decreed that their newly established nation would be called "The United States of America". While I wasn't there, and do not know if their intent was to crowd out the ability for any other person living on the continents to feel comfy calling themselves an American - I some how doubt it.

Why are those of you up in arms about this flap not screaming bloody murder about the audacity of the Australians? Well the poor sorry sods in Papua New Guinea and Indonesia must really hate life. Maybe it's not an issue any longer because the continental naming convention is seen as evolving from the Australian Continent to Oceania in some circles.

And lest us not forget the continent Africa and the nation of South Africa or is that not so important nor confusing?

This hub bub over what others call us? Lots of hot air. I don't know anyone from Germany, France, Spain, Italy or Portugal who calls themselves a European. They, seemingly more so to me, are far too nationalistic to be grouped with other nations under such an umbrella term as "European". Those from *outside* Europe? Yep, you bet! Although mostly I hear this in terms of descriptors "Oh, he's so European looking" sort of thing. The individuals from those European nation generally refer to themselves as "German", "French", "Spanish", "Italian" or "Portuguese". You'll note that each of these labels are formed off the unique identifier of their proper national name. So the call to arms to use another label for ourselves (USAian - yeah, I want to hear you call yourself that) seems rather silly. Should there not, instead, be a call to change the name of the nation? Or maybe the continent?

One *really* could argue that we're much more brash and insensitive to say that we're "from the States" or "from the US" as though it's the only organization of states in the world when clearly the United Mexican States and the Federated States of Micronesia both exist.

And I agree. Our bad rap has much more to do with our politics and general poor manners (not that self absorption isn't chief amongst our poor manners) over the last 40 years than it does with what the Founding Fathers so blithely determined we would wind up calling ourselves over the next many millenia.

/soapbox of crankiness

[Selenay]

Selenay, just for clarification, the statement above (not yours, but UofM's) was an inside joke between the two of us. It is not in any way meant as racist, bigoted or malicious (even though without having inside knowledge you might somehow see it differently). So, please, do not take it as such.

Thanks!

(Apologies for taking this thread off topic; I'll let it go after this post)

I can understand that it was a joke meant in good fun, but to an outside observer it was callous and uncalled for. I'm not telling you, any of you, not to joke but perhaps cautioning you to think twice about where it is posted. Because no, I don't know you, or UofM, but I'm reading this thread, too, and I'm going to respond where I see posts worth calling out.

[Enchantress]

(Apologies for taking this thread off topic; I'll let it go after this post)

I can understand that it was a joke meant in good fun, but to an outside observer it was callous and uncalled for. I'm not telling you, any of you, not to joke but perhaps cautioning you to think twice about where it is posted. Because no, I don't know you, or UofM, but I'm reading this thread, too, and I'm going to respond where I see posts worth calling out.



Please forgive me, however I don't see where one could have even assumed what you did (from what was written).

I'm quite aware that others read this thread.

I must be honest and let you know that your response to what you assumed was a racist statement was offensive to me.

When in doubt, investigate and ask questions before attacking. It's a good rule of thumb, not only in the forums but for life in general.

As you've stated you don't know me and I do not know you.

However, I tend to be respectful when adressing others or topics that I may find offensive. It's the way I believe life should be lived, but everyone has their own way of thought...

Again, you still have no idea what the original sentence was about, and I have no intention of clarifying any further. Suffice it to say, it was not even based in the direction you took it.

I too will make this my last response in regard to said subject.

Enjoy your day, Selenay.

Respectfully,

Enchantress

[Selenay]

Please forgive me, however I don't see where one could have even assumed what you did (from what was written).

I'm quite aware that others read this thread.

snipsnip

Enjoy your day, Selenay.

Respectfully,

Enchantress

I will PM you, Enchantress, so we can continue this dialogue and perhaps clear a few things up *s

[Enchantress]

I will PM you, Enchantress, so we can continue this dialogue and perhaps clear a few things up *s

Sounds like a great idea, thank you.

[UofMfan]

Waldo, that is what you are going by these days right? I can understand how names are really not important to you. Having said that, I can see where you would find logic in your post. Fact is, Germany, Mexico, China or even Brazil are not the names of continents, so it is fine for them to call themselves Chinese, Brazilian,etc. since by doing so they are not insulting anyone else.

I don't expect you to see the fact that the more you and others defend your point of view, the more you prove the fact that it is arrogant.

I have to hand it to you though, at least you, unlike Bit, do not think that there are two continents named America. :blink:

[Waldo]

Dude. Check your geography. There are only two. Central America is part of the North American continent.

Further. I think my work here is done.

Waldo, that is what you are going by these days right? I can understand how names are really not important to you. Having said that, I can see where you would find logic in your post. Fact is, Germany, Mexico, China or even Brazil are not the names of continents, so it is fine for them to call themselves Chinese, Brazilian,etc. since by doing so they are not insulting anyone else.

I don't expect you to see the fact that the more you and others defend your point of view, the more you prove the fact that it is arrogant.

I have to hand it to you though, at least you, unlike Bit, do not think that there are two continents named America. :blink:

[Write14u]

Waldo, that is what you are going by these days right? I can understand how names are really not important to you. Having said that, I can see where you would find logic in your post. Fact is, Germany, Mexico, China or even Brazil are not the names of continents, so it is fine for them to call themselves Chinese, Brazilian,etc. since by doing so they are not insulting anyone else.

I don't expect you to see the fact that the more you and others defend your point of view, the more you prove the fact that it is arrogant.

I have to hand it to you though, at least you, unlike Bit, do not think that there are two continents named America. :blink:


Out of curiosity, how do most in Columbia identify themselves? South Americans? Or are they Columbians first?

And as I asked before: What exactly is stopping anyone in the Americas from calling themselves American?

And for the record, your snark toward Bit does little to cover YOUR arrogance, which is a nice touch when you're trying to point out ours.

[Apocalipstic]

It is awkward, I get it. Our country has a long name which is also the name of a Continent (or 2 or 3 depending on your views...I like to think of us as one).

Actually I learned that the US were not the only Americans and it hurts people's feelings that we think that when I lived in South America....I wish I had come up with it on my own, but as a small child in Argentina I was constantly reminded that the entire continent is America and it is arrogant etc to call ourselves Americans.

Now what to call ourselves? It is awkward....we watched a WWII movie this weekend, and it was the British, the Japanese, the Canadians and the American's. The soldiers from the USA does seem awkward when everyone else has nice short names....and I totally get that for many people Yanks is derogatory (not for me, I could care less personally)

Maybe we say American because it's easiest?

I do try to make a point of saying US and USA when I can and wonder in what other ways I can be respectful to the fact that the US is not the only America. :)

[Apocalipstic]

Out of curiosity, how do most in Columbia identify themselves? South Americans? Or are they Columbians first?

And as I asked before: What exactly is stopping anyone in the Americas from calling themselves American?

And for the record, your snark toward Bit does little to cover YOUR arrogance, which is a nice touch when you're trying to point out ours.

I know many in people in South America actually identify as many people in North America do...from their ancestral history...like German, Irish, Swiss, Spanish, Italian, Lebanese, and so forth.

Does not make it any easier.

[NJFemmie]

If I am going to call myself anything, I'll call myself American. Honestly, if someone finds that offensive, I can't help that. They can say they are American too. Am I being dismissive? *shrug* Would I get offended if they call themselves American? Not at all. Obviously, there are different types of Americans. It is what it is, is it not?

[Apocalipstic]

I think as long as mean we are American in an inclusive way, it's all good.

If we go to Uruguay, Norte Americano or Estados Unidense would be a better choice of what to call ourselves...

The USA does not contain the "only" Americans.

:)

[Write14u]

It is awkward, I get it. Our country has a long name which is also the name of a Continent (or 2 or 3 depending on your views...I like to think of us as one).

Actually I learned that the US were not the only Americans and it hurts people's feelings that we think that when I lived in South America....I wish I had come up with it on my own, but as a small child in Argentina I was constantly reminded that the entire continent is America and it is arrogant etc to call ourselves Americans.

Now what to call ourselves? It is awkward....we watched a WWII movie this weekend, and it was the British, the Japanese, the Canadians and the American's. The soldiers from the USA does seem awkward when everyone else has nice short names....and I totally get that for many people Yanks is derogatory (not for me, I could care less personally)

Maybe we say American because it's easiest?

I do try to make a point of saying US and USA when I can and wonder in what other ways I can be respectful to the fact that the US is not the only America. :)


I think we say American because it's who we have been taught we are. Not because it's easy, per se. Again, i don't think it's arrogant or exclusive unless we're saying the rest of the Americans shouldn't call themselves that.

And I was sincere in asking what Central/South Americans call themselves because no, I've never been there. I have been to Canada.
I think it's cool they call themselves Americans as well, since it's true.

I'm not arguing that at all. I just think it's a bit harsh to call people from the U.S. arrogant for using what they've been taught for at least two centuries. And not meaning to be dismissive, but it's not going to change. Lord knows we are slow to change on anything. I think it's simply about being respectful of everyone else as Americans, too.

[Apocalipstic]

I think we say American because it's who we have been taught we are. Not because it's easy, per se. Again, i don't think it's arrogant or exclusive unless we're saying the rest of the Americans shouldn't call themselves that.

And I was sincere in asking what Central/South Americans call themselves because no, I've never been there. I have been to Canada.
I think it's cool they call themselves Americans as well, since it's true.

I'm not arguing that at all. I just think it's a bit harsh to call people from the U.S. arrogant for using what they've been taught for at least two centuries. And not meaning to be dismissive, but it's not going to change. Lord knows we are slow to change on anything. I think it's simply about being respectful of everyone else as Americans, too.

I agree I might have been strong in my wording, my appologies. I feel very passionately about this, having grown up in South America.

If I can get a few people to at least think about it and how arrogant it sounds for the US to always refer to ourselves as 'The Americans" then that is all I can ask for.

I understand that being sensitive to the other countries in the Americas is a new thing for many of us. We were taught in school that those countries are completely insignificant.

I hope you do get to travel to South and Central America sometime, I think you would so enjoy it and see more clearly what I am speaking of.

:)

[Apocalipstic]

Thank you! I just learned something new today!

I find it funny though, when Kate Smith was singing "God Bless America" she was singing for Canada and South America as well. I don't know why, it just struck my funny bone. Same thing with America the Beautiful. it also makes me feel warm and fuzzy for reasons I cannot identify.
:junesmiley:


Ha, I know.

It is something that we have all done forever, but it does upset people in the Americas outside the US, except for the Canadians according to one source :).

Just something to think about. :)

[suebee]

YouTube- Tom Brokaw Explains Canada To Americans

[Toughy]

YouTube- Tom Brokaw Explains Canada To Americans (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYoTJItSPt0&feature=player_embedded)


personally I am waiting with some excitement to hear Tom explain my generation....the Boomers........to me..........laughin..........it's his new tv special..........
:vigil:

[Apocalipstic]

YouTube- Tom Brokaw Explains Canada To Americans (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYoTJItSPt0&feature=player_embedded)

What a great video!

My dream is that someday we come to have the same type of relationship with the rest of the Americas as we have with Canada. :)

We are not so different, we are all nations of Native Americans and immigrants and their offspring, rich with natural resources and beauty.

All of us...American.

personally I am waiting with some excitement to hear Tom explain my generation....the Boomers........to me..........laughin..........it's his new tv special..........
:vigil:

Meeee tooooooo! :)

[Apocalipstic]

So the earthquake in Chile.

It KILLS me when people insist that Chile in not developed, that only the US and some parts of Europe and Australia actually are above abject poverty and have any infrastructure.

Someone I work with was talking about how some cruise ship guest performers had to ride a bus over the Andes filled with chickens to get to the airport in Mendoza to fly back to the US.

I get that it's fun to exaggerate stories, but poultry crossing the international border between two developed nations? really??? There is no way that actually happened...no poultry, no livestock, no fruit and vegetables. Customs and Immigration.....

What would be the need? Argentina has poultry of it's own. Laugh.

It's not really racism per se...nationalism? US arrogance?

I have traveled likely that same route over the Andes and yes, it's the highest part and yes, it is terrifying...but why make it sound like it is backwards because it is in South America?

I can tell you there are far more backwards parts of TN than any I have seen in Chile.

Also, for anyone who thinks the US has itinerant farm workers who walked here from Chile....look at a topographical map...Atacama desert, Andes, jungle, Columbia, Panama Canal.....and so forth.

Maps are our friends.

Where was everyone in 5th grade geography class?

GRRRRRRR.

Every time we have a racism thread, QueenofQueens mentions Nationalism being just as bad, the more I think about it, the more I agree.

[tapu]

I have always wondered why it's America and not Vespucchia. Historically, the overlapping term problem we have now would still have arisen, but perhaps this is the answer to our problem today. After all, the United States do not name their capitals "Christopher, Ohio" or "Abraham, Nebraska."

Ich bin ein Vespucchian.