I agree with Dapper on this. This ain't Pleasantville, and you don't HAVE to be either one or the other. Find out what works for you, please.

Nadeest, I didn't even think of other lists besides WPATH...duh!

http://www.thetransitionalmale.com/Therapists.html

http://www.lauras-playground.com/gender_therapists.htm

DrBeckysList has a lot of useful information and links in it, in addition to the lists of therapists, just so y'all know. I really like some of her articles that are linked there.

Got a question for you, Leigh... why do you have down that you're femme but yet you posted that you are an out FTM?

Who are you talking to?

Dapper butch... I edited it to add th name...it was too Leigh..I'm new here and getting used to this place..lol

Dapper, the portion of your post that I highlighted above is the one notion I disagree with. A butch can be Transgender. When you said "Trans"n did you mean Transexual? For me, I am unsure if top surgery and hormones, testosterone, qualifies everyone as transexual. I like some others here see the binary as "flawed." I think the word "inadequate" is a more appropriate word when speaking about the short comings of the binary.

I don't know if I belong to this thread... I consider myself transgender of the "genderfluid variety" which basically means that my gender changes with time/situation/ppl I interact with etc...

I think it's great having a thread like that so that ppl can politely ask questions. Better to ask than to assume things, right? :blush:

Hi, Greyson. All I was saying is that there are butches that get top surgery that do not define as trans. I was not saying a butch can't be transgender (I am one of them!).

A person is who they tell us they are, not what they do or don't do to their bodies.

Meaning, I agree with you!

What I try to get across to clients is that they DON'T have to fit in the binary. Often gender questioning clients come into my office assuming that they have to fit.

Does this clarify things?

P.S. When I use the word "trans" I am including both transgender people and transsexual people (FTM/MTF). I believe that this is the current accepted meaning behind the use of the term trans in the queer community.

If you feel like you fit into the thread, than you do!

I am seeing more and more people who define as genderfluid and genderqueer attaching transgender to their identity.

This thread is also a place for people of all identities to ask questions. In fact, that is the point of the thread.

Thank you so much DapperButch! You are always very helpful and kind :)

I don't know where I feel I fit in but I do feel welcome here, both the thread and the site in general. It means a lot to me cause I don't always feel so welcome in my real-life community...

The term transgender confuses me a bit... The way I understand it is as an umbrella term for many types of identities when someone doesn't feel they fit into their at birth assigned gender. I would be most grateful to hear how ppl from the site read that.

Questions asked a while ago but I would like to answer them from my perspective...

1) When did you begin feeling like you were different?

I've always been treated in ways that made me feel different but didn't really know why. I couldn't tell why I was being called a tomboy, as a kid I didn't think about gender at all...
When I became a teenager I started thinking about gender and how I felt different amounts of boy/girl, different days. At first I assumed that everyone felt like that ;) lol. I couldn't really grasp the idea of having "only" one gender...
Then it has gotten harder the older I became...

2) Did you always know that you should have been born the opposite sex, or did that come abit later though you always knew you were different?

I've always wanted to be treated like the opposite sex. I don't only mean when it comes to gender equality, I mean for example as a kid wanting to have the same toys as the boys, to play with boys rather than girls etc... I often feel I should have been born a boy, the older I get the more often I feel that... But most of the time I feel I don't truly fit in in the gender binary in general. I feel I'm in between genders...

3) When did you decide to come out, and how did you come out?

I didn't really decide to come out, it sort of happened... I was coming out as gay and realized that there was more to the whole thing... It was really a crisis, it's still not easy at times...
I tried telling some friends I trust but felt pressured to transition and judged about my feminine looks and behavior. It seems hard to explain the concept of "gender-mixture" and "feminine-man" to someone who hasn't experienced it... I have found it can be a bit easier on the internet, but not always...

*posting post keeping fingers crossed hoping that I haven't -without realizing it- said anything that might be offensive to anyone...

You belong here, agape, and welcome.

The way that I understand and use the term 'transgender' is that it is someone who is gendervariant in some way. It is an all inclusive term including, but not limited to: transsexuals, drag queens, drag kings, tranvestites, and genderqueer people. Transsexual, on the other hand, is a much more restricted term, whose meaning is limited to people whose gender identity is different then what is presumed, when looking at their body. However, not everyone in the transgender world agrees with these useages/meanings. Yep, things get kinda confusing around transfolk, sometime. :P

I would like to ask a question if anyone would like to give your thoughts about this: I wonder how you view "masculinity" as in clothes, behavior, energy etc in regards to someone identifying as male (I realize that what is considered "masculine" is relative but still...).
For example: how would you view a person identifying as male but still behaving/dressing in feminine ways, would you consider that confusing? The reason I ask is because I have encountered this issue when discussing transgender-issues, that gender and gender expression seem to be viewed by many ppl as almost one and the same. So when someone id's as male they are expected to dress, behave in a masculine way. (The same when someone id's as female...)
Personally, after both my own inner journey and also after doing some research/reading, I feel that gender and gender expression are two separate things... Meaning that it's possible for someone to id as male and still be very feminine.
I also feel that masculinity and femininity are more of a sort of energy/personality and don't have much to do with clothes, haircut and so on (but it could of course be expressed through those things).
I'm very curious to hear what others think about this!:glasses:

what agape and harleycat have questions about, ... seem to be along the same lines. which is, a person can be butch or femme and male.

i'm hope i'm not out of place.

I agree with you. Male does not = masculine nor Female = feminine. Therefore, yes a male can be feminine.

Some people say that the terms butch and femme should be reserved for the butch/femme community, but there are gay males who define as "butch", but it is a different type of butch.

Leigh's issue is not the same thing. Her sex/gender has shifted since the beginning of this thread. Perhaps she will come in and explain.