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so...
what if it is just casual dating?
The reason that I am curious is, that I know some folks that date and don't disclose... what if it gets serious, would that be considered deception? |
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One partner's gender identity/sexual orientation should not define the other person's. There is nothing wrong with identifying as lesbian when you are with a trans man. People identify as lesbian and date cis, straight men. T is a bullshit excuse. Trans men don't get a pass on learning to manage this agitating-type hormone any more than cis men do. Unless it is something super obvious, I suspect his need for revision had nothing to do with your care. Many, many guys need revisions after top surgery. Quote:
I am asking because the other poster was talking about trans guys who are pre-T, and if she it is rude to ask masculine looking females if they identify as butch or trans/ a combo of both. These are two different topics, in my mind. Quote:
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Wow. As a lesbian, I can tell you that negates the very essence of who we are. It is also derogating, insulting and demeaning. |
Kobi, I really hope you are just speaking for yourself because there are plenty of lesbians that don't share your views, and there are lesbians who do date trans men and they still identify as lesbians.
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Word, Bully.
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If who you sleep with does not define who and what you are, then you are negating the very essence of not only lesbianism but of homosexuality itself. And you are also negating the concept of sexual orientation. That is some major homophobia rearing its ugly head. The fact that people do not find this disturbing on a queer site is mind boggling. |
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Kobi, I find your transphobia mind boggling.
First of all, how is your life, identity, sexuality, sexual orientation, gender identity or anything else defined by someone else's dating choices? Another lesbian's dating life doesn't define me or anyone else. And who you date does not define who you are either. If I ended up dating someone who didn't id as femme that wouldn't mean I wasn't butch all of a sudden. A lesbian can date another lesbian, another woman who doesn't id as lesbian, someone gender queer, a trans man, a cis man, etc. She may very still see herself as a lesbian because that is how she has id'd for a long time and it didn't suddenly change just because she is dating someone of a different id than she did before. Being a lesbian is not just about who you sleep with. There are community and social ties, your own personal history, your own sense of how you identify and a whole host of other factors that go into it. You only get to define lesbian for you Kobi. |
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As a trans man I have been shocked by how a small group of woman in our community like to marginalize FTMs when they them selves are marginalized by our society as a whole. You would think they would have a better understanding of how that feels. Also, enough with the definitions. They are only someone's opinion anyway. How about we are all just human beings. There! Then no one can judge or hate if we are not defined, categorized or labeled. We are not insects for god sakes. Sorry JDeere for jumping on my soap box. I get tired of being analyzed just to make a few others feel superior over another group of people. |
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A lesbian by definition is a female homosexual aka same sex. A gay man, by definition is a male homosexual aka same sex. A bisexual, by definition is someone who sleeps with both sexes. A heterosexual, by definition pertains to opposite sexes. These are not my definitions, they are the definitions of sexual orientation. This next part has nothing to do with you JD. If you believe someone can identify as a lesbian or a female homosexual and sleep with trans or cis men or butches with dont touch my woman parts parameters, you have just negated their homosexuality/lesbianism/same sex orientation. You have just said, they are other than woman oriented, thus not homosexual. That is simple applied logic and common sense. When a lesbian speaks to this, she does so because her identity as a female homosexual/same sex person is being negated or marginalized or distorted in their own supposed community by their own supposed community members. That is being disrespectful of someone else's identity. It is also homophobic. And, more amazingly, the 4 of you think a female sticking up for herself and for homosexuals somehow translates into transphobia? Wow, talk about adding insult to injury. A woman can say she is a lesbian or homosexual and sleep with variations of maleness but that is the antithesis of what a female homosexual is. I can say I am a heterosexual woman who only sleeps with other women but that is the antithesis of a heterosexual. I can say I am a giraffe but the other giraffes just pat me on the head and laugh at me when I do that - long story. Gay people fight for gay marriage and even gay rights because they are homosexuals - same sex folks who fight for our right to exist, to be seen for who we are, and to be respected for who we are. And who we are are homosexuals - in same sex relationships. And no one, even our own community, has the right to negate who we are, define who we are, to tell us we are something other than what we are, or to misconstrue the reality of who we are to make it more convenient for or more in tune to what they need us to be in order to validate themselves. And, as I am on a roll here, this behavior is very much coming from a place of real or imagined male privilege. Hence, it is not only homophobic, it is also sexist and misogynistic. |
Wow. I'm sexist and misogynistic and am experiencing male privilege (since I think I may be included in the 4 you mentioned...maybe not...you weren't entirely clear about who you were addressing)?
You said yourself, Kobi, that "And no one, even our own community, has the right to negate who we are, define who we are, to tell us we are something other than what we are, or to misconstrue the reality of who we are to make it more convenient for or more in tune to what they need us to be in order to validate themselves." What do you think you are doing to those lesbians who DO love and sleep with other people outside of your narrow scope that identify as lesbian? Yes, the definition of lesbian is rather narrow but then homosexuality was deemed a mental illness for eons. Science has been proven to be slow catching up to reality. So, scientifically, you are correct. Morally? Eh.....you are being hypocritical. |
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Thank you. |
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It is my understanding, that this is a butch (as gender) and femme (as gender) site. There is also a long tradition of people who regard themselves as either completely outside of, or somewhat outside of, what is male or female (aka trans), being on a forum like this. Some of us happen to identify as lesbian, as well. The site is more about gender and who we are, than who we fuck, in my opinion. We are here because we are all queer and the butch-femme dynamic speaks to us in some way. Some of us have been together since 1998 when another butch-femme forum opened. |
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