Heh. Whilst even back then I was aware that the societal expectation for womens apeparance was a tad more femme than I felt internally, it didn't feel too far off, and I was entirely happy to do the skirt-suit/disco dolly thing. And back then, I associated tomboyism more with childhood and a certain kind of practical-mindedness in adult women. And yes - absolutely I loved that the world finally saw me as one of the girls, which is what I should've been from the start. I know that some going through the system at the time had such worries, and definitely did present as conventional femme in order to obtain surgery, but I was quite happy presenting so, it was what I wanted to be like, back then. It didn't occurr to me back then that that mightve been due to external pressure rather than innate.

This last couple of years have been quite odd for me as well as very happy ones. I'd been wearing my Steampunk plain Edwardian-style skirt-suits at work for a few years, and not unhappy about that specifically (I didnt have anything else I could sensibly wear, and I'm quite pragmatic. Wouldve loved more variety in my wardrobe - I love clothes, but - finances :-( )), but I knew I was in a rut and creeping back into my shell socially - and headed to a bad place mentally if I didnt do something about it.

Roller derby entering my life was a huge game-changer. Not only socially being around a lot of strong minded women determined to do their thing and heck what anyone thought about it (and utterly accepting of me), but the weight I lost in my efforts to get fitter meant my skirt-suits now fell off me. Jeans and cheap tank tops were the quick solution.

Woah. BIG sudden change, and at first it felt uncomfortable, and I did worry a tad that I might be 'read' more often as being MTF in jeans and T-shirt, but after a while it became the new normal, the world didn't end, straight men still annoyingly make passes at me, and I realised that I was feeling pretty comfortable with this image, actually, it better reflected my personality - femme, but with a practical edge, and not always too worried about the niceties or things being just so. It also fit well with my being part of several 'alternative' social scenes (Goth, Steampunk, roller derby), somehow.

Nowadays I feel more one of the laddish girls that can do classic femme when she wants to - and does, but not often, and am quite happy thus. I was startled my first couple of times on the lesbian scene when both times someone presumed I was butch. No idea why, I didnt get chance to ask, but I suspect it was because I wasnt in skirts and court shoes, and then there's my sheer size - I'm a big lass. I mentioned this to my boss the other week and she laughed and said 'you're definitely not butch, you're too feminine!' and friends have concurred. Awkward, me... :-}

Thank you for writing all of this. I appreciate you sharing your history.

As I said before, I am glad that you are here. I would love to have the opportunity to discuss living in the world as a trans person, with other trans people, on this site.

Do you find that trans women are supported in most lesbian specific spaces in your area (both your area specifically, and the UK, in general)? I don't know if you can say this based on your own experience, but I am curious. I would say that in general, trans women are less accepted in all female, lesbian defined spaces in the U.S., than not. It was much worse many years ago, and I like to think that it is getting better, but that might only be happening in the larger cities. All of the trans women I work with who go to lesbian specific spaces say they have not found acceptance. I am in a more liberal state, as well. 98% of my state voted for Clinton.

Knowing you transitioned many years ago, and in the UK is super interesting to me. I have a number of trans guy friends in the UK online, who I met through a UK bottom surgery FB group. I find the UK system of transition interesting as it is so different from ours. Of course, you all have had support (your country pays for your transitions), for eons.

Hey Dapper,

I agree this is s sticky subject. From the folks I have spoken to about it, well, let's just say it can be a passionate response on either side. Your response made me think and I will take some time to think on it before I comment any further. (as far as others revealing things about themselves) thanks for your point of view :)

I'm happy to discuss that, Dapper, either here or elsewhere if it needs a different thread.

As for trans women being supported in lesbian-specific places in the UK, first a caveat - I am not on social media, I'm a refusenik. There almost certainly will be stuff 'out there' that I am not aware of. One of the things I've just been venting about is the fact that here I am in the UK's second largest city, and there is one lesbian-focused bar (and it's tiny) and two places where lesbians are often found, so far as I'm aware of at this point. And there are NO women-only nights in any of them. I'm guessing that locally women connect online first so there's less of the going to somehwere to find a date thing going on.

The twice I have been on the scene that ther'es actually been wall-to-wall women in our lesbian-centric bar, I felt no edge from anybody at all. I would say utter general social acceptance. Of course, that's not the same as saying that they'd all be happy to bed me, but then, I wouldn't have wanted to bed all of them, either. We all have our preferences :-}

At LFest - which has a firm no discrimination policy - much the same. Indeed, although I fluffed the situations through dithering due to introversion and nervousness, I did get some positive interest from a couple of lasses, which was a bit of a surprise to me. Being effectively a babydyke, introvert and recovering from years of self-policing due to fear of rejection as female, I told myself beforehand to not get my hopes up, and be realistic with my expectations. Seems my expectations were too low!

Contrast this with nearly thirty years back in my much smaller original hometown, and the utter rejection I got by the local lesbian support group. No-one was off with me at the local gay/lesbian disco when I attended, but the women barely interacted with me at all, although one did shamefacedly say 'we do think you're pretty though' as if that were a consolation prize. Well gee thanks, but having to deal with being lesbian on top of being MTF and telling me I'm pretty but cold-shouldering me.. yeah. Worst and most hurtful discrimination I've ever experienced. Heterosexual society actually proved to be way more accepting. That incident made me actually scared to go near the lesbian scene again for fear of similar rejection, hence my finally coming to the scene very late in life. I'm happy to say much has changed for the better!

I blame Janice Raymond 's nasty piece of supposedly feminist work for that, though. (I've had to self-censor there - I get a severe attack of the swearies every time I think of her infamous book on transfolk). Those women were in a tough situation at a tough time, and I was one more potential worry, I saw that even at the time. It was the fact that they wouldnt even negotiate some form of compromise that shocked me.

Nearly forgot - the women in the lesbian walking group I'm in - absolutely fine with me.

As for the rest of the UK - well, I've no experience there, and no information other than a few snippets I picked up from chatting at LFest whcih gave me the impression that it's much the same around the country. Sure, there'll be the odd bigot here and there, but in general we're accepted as part of the community, such as it is. Hmmn.. one caveat - it can depend on the individual. I've just recalled that one bunch I chatted with said they'd encountered a couple of transwomen that, from the descriptions of their behaviour given me, I suspect were either poorly socialised as women or just plain boorish in personality anyway. They were sent packing, eventually. I have noticed that some MTFs seem to think that their way of being a woman is THE way, and come on, we're all girls together, this is how to do it - and it sounds incredibly fake, and is in any case, rude, especially when you're the newcomer to a group.

For the ftms...How do yall get into your binder. Do you step into it or over the head. My last binder had Velcro and wasn't very good but am getting a new one and am wondering the safest and best way to get into it.

I don’t wear one regularly but the times I have it’s always been over the head. Can’t say I haven’t almost dislocated a shoulder a time or two lol (usually taking it off) but yeah.

It is whatever works best for you. There really isn't a "safest" or best way. I haven't heard guys talk about stepping into them in years. I suspect that was the older brands. I never understood how that really worked though. I always did it over the head.

Did you end up ordering a gc2b? I had top surgery prior to these coming out, but I am pretty sure all guys just pull them over their heads.

The most important thing about binders is to get the correct size, based on your measurements. That is where "safety" comes into it.

I hope this binder works well for you.

Gah, you just gave me a total flashback....I felt the pain I would feel when taking that thing off.

I can't believe I wore a binder, daily, for 15 (?) years.

Thanks yall. I am ordering the binder soon. I took the measurements and spoke with a customer service person and we know the correct size for me. I hope it works for me too.

What brand and style did you get?

What brand and style did you get?

I wore the Underworks tri top for years.

G2b in the short style kind of amazed at the fit and how it made me feel inside empowering. I did the underworks on first but not a good fit and I had issues with getting cyst that the doc thinks might be related. Really had I not been so idk shy about it I should have asked for advise in the first place

I am getting mine from the g2b website. Its the tank binder. Since im a big guy they recommended the tank instead of the half.

I think ive seen some of yall post about thin hair or no, i dont really remember. I have think hair way up front on my hairline, some missing due to stress, do yall think that a pompadour would be a good cut or go with a fade type cut?

There are so many things that go into the right hair style. The texture of your hair, the growth pattern, etc. The best thing to do is to go to a quality, higher end hair salon and ask their opinion. Let them do "their thing", and just deal with the cost. If you want a male cut, make sure you tell them that. Even if you are butch, if they know you are female, they will "soften", any style that you might suggest to them.

After that, take yourself to a cheaper place 3-4 weeks later and have the stylist "follow the line". Then keep going to that person.

Good luck.

I went to a barber, skipped the whole salon deal. My new place for a haircut fyi. My barber happens to be a stud, which to my delight we talked about femmes the whole time. Anyways I ended up with a ruby rose type hair cut no softening of anything lol.

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A place with a stud was a good idea. Female and males skulls are shaped differently. A female who desires to look masculine is a good choice for picking out a hairstyle for you that makes you look the most male (if that is what you are going for). Back in the day trans men would get a crew cut/something along those lines, as soon as they came out. All that does is highlight the skull which points to the person being female. There is enough information out there now that you don't see that much anymore.

I have found a good Barber and the cut I think is much better before my daughter was fussing at me that my fade had not been done right now she and I are both happy and I do not have to worry about the the being softened thing

I think it was a good choice too.