What influences the order of names in a couple?

Kobi · 05-18-2011, 07:00 PM

This came up on another thread and made me curious. We refer to our community as Butch-Femme not Femme-Butch. We usually refer to Medusa and Jack, not usually Jack and Medusa.

But lets broaden it. Why is it:

~Lucy and Ricky but Fred and Ethel?
~Meg Ryan and Dennis Quaid but Tom Cruise and <insert woman here>?
~ Howard and Marion Cunningham but Joanie and Chachi?
~Ross and Rachel but Monica and Chandler?
~Richard Burton and Liz Taylor but Liz Taylor and Eddie Fisher?

So, if you are thinking harder, think about couples in YOUR life, your family, your own relationship......is there a customary order for the names or are they interchangeable? Either way, what do you think influenced a particular order or an interchangeable order?

Is there a sexism component? A real or preceived power component? Does one just sound better/flow better than the other? Age? Tradition? Something else?

Inquiring minds are curious.

scootebaby · 05-18-2011, 07:11 PM

i dunno if i think real hard about it,but for me there are several factors...if i have known one longer than the other..what order sounds better to me..i know with Jo and I i put it like that,and even she puts it like that "Jo and Scoote"..as far as actors/actresses its just whomever i feel is more popular. Angie and Brad are interchangeable to me,but Bert and Ernie is not.

just my 2cents

DapperButch · 05-18-2011, 07:14 PM

I think that June hit the nail on the head for me when she said that in some cases it is a function of who I have the primary relationship with.

For my sister and her husband, I use her name first, for example.

In thinking about my relationships with same sex couples, I think it is a function of primary relationship, but is also a function of what I hear others call the couple, or sometimes is simply a function of what sounds most pleasing to my ears <shrug>.

These are my best guesses, anyway.

P.S. Most of my same sex couple friends are androgynous, with neither being more masculine than the other.

Jess · 05-18-2011, 07:17 PM

Same here regarding whom I knew first or have/had a primary relationship with. Guess I never really thought about it before.
I think Kobi's examples of famous couples is interesting in that for me, whomever was the more popular at the time, came first.

princessbelle · 05-18-2011, 07:23 PM

This is interesting and actually i can remember being a child and wondering the same thing. I can remember my mom and dad talking about my aunts and uncles and like you are saying..there was a flow to the names and saying them opposite didn't sound right.

One thing i figured out, at least in my family, we said our family member first and then the "married into the family" name. As in uncle david aunt jackie (David being my father's brother) or Aunt Faye and Uncle Kirby (Faye being my father's sister). That is one thing.

Then on the flip side if my concept is correct, the families of the "married" people would say it opposite.

As far as famous people. I know this rule doesn't apply ALL the time for sure but it seems the more famous the person or more prominate in a show that name comes first. It's just one way to look at it i think.

Elvis and Priscilla
Bill and Hillary
Pebbles and BamBam

Great thread.

girl_dee · 05-18-2011, 07:25 PM

Fred and Ginger, and Ginger was the one backwards in high heels.

Daywalker · 05-18-2011, 07:31 PM

We are often referred to as The Daywalkers or The Days.

Otherwise it comes out as Mr n Mrs Daywalker.

Primarily it is my social practices that brings this
about, as I may or may not be one chatty muther fucker.

DapperButch · 05-18-2011, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by princessbelle

One thing i figured out, at least in my family, we said our family member first and then the "married into the family" name. As in uncle david aunt jackie (David being my father's brother) or Aunt Faye and Uncle Kirby (Faye being my father's sister). That is one thing.

INTERESTING! I never noticed this before, but my family did the same thing. "Blood relative", first, followed by spouse.

Kobi · 05-18-2011, 07:44 PM

Its interesting to see the answers here.

In my own life I have similiar perceptions for the most part. A relative always comes before their spouse.

The person I know better comes before their partner. Sometimes, if I know them long enough, they become interchangeable.

The only exception, that I can think of at the moment, is one brother. His wife always comes first. And, for me, that is because she holds the power....no matter how macho he tries to be.

girl_dee · 05-18-2011, 07:53 PM

Well I can tell ya it's always bugged me that the " male " is always listed first on formal documents.

Tcountry · 05-18-2011, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sassy_girl

Well I can tell ya it's always bugged me that the " male " is always listed first on formal documents.

That links back to the "old days" where the male was the head of the household and therefore more formal documents recognize that...

Most of the time I just go with what flows better...or like others have said who I have known longer.

JustJo · 05-18-2011, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sassy_girl

Well I can tell ya it's always bugged me that the " male " is always listed first on formal documents.

I know that our real estate purchase contract and deeds....it has purchaser /seller...and my divorce documents (all 3 sets) say petitioner / respondent. Nothing on either one about male / female or husband /wife.

No doubt there are some that are listed as you say....but not all of them.

DomnNC · 05-18-2011, 08:12 PM

Same here, in regards to family, it's the blood relative first then the married into after. As far as friends go I generally say the most dominant partners name first whether the dominant partner is male or female, femme or butch, etcetcetc, it matters not who the dominant partner is.

scootebaby · 05-18-2011, 08:28 PM

i also do it in order of respect...even in my family..if i respect the non relative more i will put their name first

Andrea · 05-18-2011, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tcountry

That links back to the "old days" where the male was the head of the household and therefore more formal documents recognize that...

During the 90's while working for a mortgage company, I had a closer (the person who drew up the closing documents) insist it was the law that the male name went first on the mortgage documents.

Ummmmm....... NO!!!!

Andrea

EnderD_503 · 05-18-2011, 09:34 PM

In my family people also go by who is a direct family member. My mum has brothers and no sisters, and we always use her brothers' names before their wives, with the exception of the eldest brother. For some reason it can go either way with him and his wife. My father has all sisters and no brothers, so his sisters names were always used before their husbands'. Same with cousins etc.

As far as friends, I always use my friends names first over their partners, just because I've known them longer and am not usually friends with their partners as far as I don't really keep contact if they break up.

With people I met as couples, it can either be that I'll refer to the partner I talk most to, or they'll be interchangeable.

The_Lady_Snow · 05-20-2011, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kobi

This came up on another thread and made me curious. We refer to our community as Butch-Femme not Femme-Butch. We usually refer to Medusa and Jack, not usually Jack and Medusa.

But lets broaden it. Why is it:

~Lucy and Ricky but Fred and Ethel?
~Meg Ryan and Dennis Quaid but Tom Cruise and <insert woman here>?
~ Howard and Marion Cunningham but Joanie and Chachi?
~Ross and Rachel but Monica and Chandler?
~Richard Burton and Liz Taylor but Liz Taylor and Eddie Fisher?

So, if you are thinking harder, think about couples in YOUR life, your family, your own relationship......is there a customary order for the names or are they interchangeable? Either way, what do you think influenced a particular order or an interchangeable order?

Is there a sexism component? A real or preceived power component? Does one just sound better/flow better than the other? Age? Tradition? Something else?

Inquiring minds are curious.

Well I am a firm believer we are more of a Femme led community.

As for the outside world outside of here, I think we are and should be a matriarch run world.

That's just my wee opinion.

Daywalker · 05-20-2011, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

Well I am a firm believer we are more of a Femme led community.

As for the outside world outside of here, I think we are and should be a matriarch run world.

That's just my wee opinion.

It's kinda funny, it just occurred to me that when
referencing you two I say "Snowy n Grant..."

Yet, in mah phone U are programmed in as Grant n Snowy.

It was cuz when U dropped yer other number n the new one
was the Florida...I figured U were using Grants phone.

The_Lady_Snow · 05-20-2011, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daywalker

It's kinda funny, it just occurred to me that when
referencing you two I say "Snowy n Grant..."

Yet, in mah phone U are programmed in as Grant n Snowy.

It was cuz when U dropped yer other number n the new one
was the Florida...I figured U were using Grants phone.

Isn't that a bit of a sexist assumption? It's my phone, the other is a work phone, and the other our house phone.

hmmm..

Daywalker · 05-20-2011, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

Isn't that a bit of a sexist assumption? It's my phone, the other is a work phone, and the other our house phone.

hmmm..

Sssseeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

Wait.

I don't have yer house number.

Is this a trick thread?

05-18-2011, 07:00 PM	#1
Kobi Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Biological female. Lesbian. Relationship Status: Happy Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Hanging out in the Atlantic. Posts: 9,234 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 9,840 Thanked 34,654 Times in 7,652 Posts Rep Power: 21474861	What influences the order of names in a couple? This came up on another thread and made me curious. We refer to our community as Butch-Femme not Femme-Butch. We usually refer to Medusa and Jack, not usually Jack and Medusa. But lets broaden it. Why is it: ~Lucy and Ricky but Fred and Ethel? ~Meg Ryan and Dennis Quaid but Tom Cruise and <insert woman here>? ~ Howard and Marion Cunningham but Joanie and Chachi? ~Ross and Rachel but Monica and Chandler? ~Richard Burton and Liz Taylor but Liz Taylor and Eddie Fisher? So, if you are thinking harder, think about couples in YOUR life, your family, your own relationship......is there a customary order for the names or are they interchangeable? Either way, what do you think influenced a particular order or an interchangeable order? Is there a sexism component? A real or preceived power component? Does one just sound better/flow better than the other? Age? Tradition? Something else? Inquiring minds are curious. __________________

05-18-2011, 07:14 PM	#3
DapperButch Roadster Guy How Do You Identify?: FTM, Stone Butch Preferred Pronoun?: He Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Northeast Posts: 7,745 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 26,545 Thanked 26,821 Times in 5,772 Posts Rep Power: 21474858	I think that June hit the nail on the head for me when she said that in some cases it is a function of who I have the primary relationship with. For my sister and her husband, I use her name first, for example. In thinking about my relationships with same sex couples, I think it is a function of primary relationship, but is also a function of what I hear others call the couple, or sometimes is simply a function of what sounds most pleasing to my ears <shrug>. These are my best guesses, anyway. P.S. Most of my same sex couple friends are androgynous, with neither being more masculine than the other. __________________ -Dapper Are you educated or indoctrinated?

05-18-2011, 07:23 PM	#5
princessbelle Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: femme Preferred Pronoun?: femme ones Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,100 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 29,380 Thanked 30,499 Times in 5,201 Posts Rep Power: 21474858	This is interesting and actually i can remember being a child and wondering the same thing. I can remember my mom and dad talking about my aunts and uncles and like you are saying..there was a flow to the names and saying them opposite didn't sound right. One thing i figured out, at least in my family, we said our family member first and then the "married into the family" name. As in uncle david aunt jackie (David being my father's brother) or Aunt Faye and Uncle Kirby (Faye being my father's sister). That is one thing. Then on the flip side if my concept is correct, the families of the "married" people would say it opposite. As far as famous people. I know this rule doesn't apply ALL the time for sure but it seems the more famous the person or more prominate in a show that name comes first. It's just one way to look at it i think. Elvis and Priscilla Bill and Hillary Pebbles and BamBam Great thread. __________________ ~ I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel. ~ Maya Angelou

05-18-2011, 07:31 PM	#7
Daywalker Senior Member How Do You Identify?: Hippy Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: * Posts: 3,750 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 6,499 Thanked 11,917 Times in 2,700 Posts Rep Power: 21474855	We are often referred to as The Daywalkers or The Days. Otherwise it comes out as Mr n Mrs Daywalker. Primarily it is my social practices that brings this about, as I may or may not be one chatty muther fucker. __________________ www.SirDaywalker.com

05-18-2011, 07:44 PM	#9
Kobi Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Biological female. Lesbian. Relationship Status: Happy Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Hanging out in the Atlantic. Posts: 9,234 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 9,840 Thanked 34,654 Times in 7,652 Posts Rep Power: 21474861	Its interesting to see the answers here. In my own life I have similiar perceptions for the most part. A relative always comes before their spouse. The person I know better comes before their partner. Sometimes, if I know them long enough, they become interchangeable. The only exception, that I can think of at the moment, is one brother. His wife always comes first. And, for me, that is because she holds the power....no matter how macho he tries to be. __________________

05-18-2011, 07:11 PM	#2
scootebaby Timed Out How Do You Identify?: yes dear Preferred Pronoun?: she Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: south florida Posts: 2,494 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 3,264 Thanked 6,737 Times in 1,777 Posts Rep Power: 0	i dunno if i think real hard about it,but for me there are several factors...if i have known one longer than the other..what order sounds better to me..i know with Jo and I i put it like that,and even she puts it like that "Jo and Scoote"..as far as actors/actresses its just whomever i feel is more popular. Angie and Brad are interchangeable to me,but Bert and Ernie is not. just my 2cents

05-18-2011, 07:17 PM	#4
Jess Timed Out - Permanent How Do You Identify?: decidedly indifferent Preferred Pronoun?: other Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Patrick Springs, VA Posts: 2,812 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 9,247 Thanked 5,701 Times in 1,683 Posts Rep Power: 0	Same here regarding whom I knew first or have/had a primary relationship with. Guess I never really thought about it before. I think Kobi's examples of famous couples is interesting in that for me, whomever was the more popular at the time, came first.

05-18-2011, 07:25 PM	#6
girl_dee Practically Lives Here How Do You Identify?: Femme Preferred Pronoun?: dee Relationship Status: Hitched up Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Livin’ the Dream Posts: 24,079 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 30,560 Thanked 54,847 Times in 13,915 Posts Rep Power: 21474873	Fred and Ginger, and Ginger was the one backwards in high heels.

05-18-2011, 07:53 PM	#10
girl_dee Practically Lives Here How Do You Identify?: Femme Preferred Pronoun?: dee Relationship Status: Hitched up Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Livin’ the Dream Posts: 24,079 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 30,560 Thanked 54,847 Times in 13,915 Posts Rep Power: 21474873	Well I can tell ya it's always bugged me that the " male " is always listed first on formal documents.

05-18-2011, 08:12 PM	#13
DomnNC Timed Out How Do You Identify?: Male Preferred Pronoun?: He/Him Relationship Status: Widow Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Permanently Banned 11/15/2011 Posts: 1,223 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 2,618 Thanked 2,582 Times in 837 Posts Rep Power: 0	Same here, in regards to family, it's the blood relative first then the married into after. As far as friends go I generally say the most dominant partners name first whether the dominant partner is male or female, femme or butch, etcetcetc, it matters not who the dominant partner is.

05-18-2011, 08:28 PM	#14
scootebaby Timed Out How Do You Identify?: yes dear Preferred Pronoun?: she Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: south florida Posts: 2,494 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 3,264 Thanked 6,737 Times in 1,777 Posts Rep Power: 0	i also do it in order of respect...even in my family..if i respect the non relative more i will put their name first

05-18-2011, 09:34 PM	#16
EnderD_503 Member How Do You Identify?: Queer, trans guy, butch Preferred Pronoun?: Male pronouns Relationship Status: Relationship Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Canada Posts: 1,329 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 4,090 Thanked 3,878 Times in 1,022 Posts Rep Power: 21474853	In my family people also go by who is a direct family member. My mum has brothers and no sisters, and we always use her brothers' names before their wives, with the exception of the eldest brother. For some reason it can go either way with him and his wife. My father has all sisters and no brothers, so his sisters names were always used before their husbands'. Same with cousins etc. As far as friends, I always use my friends names first over their partners, just because I've known them longer and am not usually friends with their partners as far as I don't really keep contact if they break up. With people I met as couples, it can either be that I'll refer to the partner I talk most to, or they'll be interchangeable.