This is a tough one (regarding child maltreatment)

[Gráinne]

I haven't the slightest idea where to put this, but I need some advice from those wiser than I.

First, I am a teacher, and by law I must report suspected child abuse or even just hinkey feelings. Failure to do so could mean I lose my license. I have found out that this means 24/7, not just the dirty/bruised child in school that would be an easy case.

I live in an apartment complex and there is a family below me. The father is the maintenance supervisor for the complex. His daughter, age 12, is my daughter's best friend. Father had a live-in girlfriend who recently moved out amongst much drama and apparently a huge fight. That woman had a daughter, age 9, also friends with my daughter. So far, so good?

The gf also had a five-ish year old daughter and a 15 year old. The father, "Duane", has a 20 year old who has one baby of a little over a year, and she's pregnant again by a different man. GF is over a lot, and I suspect it isn't as over as it seems. All of these people live in the apartment off and on, and Duane's other daughter will be coming back shortly, so there's anywhere from 9 to 11 people living there. It's hard for me to follow, too.

I don't know if there's any physical abuse going on, except for the fact that all of the adults are smokers, so heavy that the smoke comes up through my window. They have also tried to get me to take the five-year old to the pool when I take my kids, but I refuse. I do know there is a lot of shouting and fighting, and that I hear the baby crying every night. It just sounds like a poor situation all around.

My question: Is this sufficient to call CPS, as I am required to do? I can do this anonymously, although I bet they'd figure it out. Or, do I approach Duane with my concerns and the position I'm in? He and I get along reasonably well. Or, talk to the leasing office (on property)? Or, nothing? WWYD?

[*Anya*]

I do know what state you are in but in California, mandated reporters report known or suspected abuse or neglect. This child may be neglected if there is no physical abuse. To ask a relative stranger to take a 5-year-old to a pool
sounds neglectful. You do not have to "prove" anything, CPS will make a determination if it warrants investigation. Trust your gut feelings. I am an RN specializing in behavioral health and have done more than my fair share of APS & CPS Reports. In my present job, I work with social workers & RN's making recommendations for their follow-up on complex medical, psychiatric & chemical dependency cases and if this were a case I eas reviewing, I would encourage the staff to err on the side of caution. Our most vulnerable need us to look out for them when no one else is. Reports can also be made anonymously if you are fearful of repercussions from the neighbors.

I hope this is helpful and am aware others may disagree with me. I would do it if I were in your shoes.

PS: my response has nothing to do with the cigarette smoking though it is unheathful for the children. We are not yet at the point parents are penalized for smoking & no I do not smoke.

Good luck, the child (children) are lucky to have you as their neighbor.

[Sachita]

I think there should be a law against people smoking in a confined area where there are kids- home, cars, etc.

[tantalizingfemme]

In your observations, what exactly do you see/feel is abuse and/or neglect?

Based on what you have shared, I am not quite sure what is abusive or neglectful. Smoking in the house, too many people in and out could be chalked up to be poor judgment and choices...but it does not mean it is an abusive or neglectful home. (chaotic maybe)

You said the two girls are close friends with your daughter...have they said anything or present a picture of any kind of abuse occurring or neglect? I am honestly asking because I am not necessarily seeing anything exceptionally alarming based on the information.

[princessbelle]

You are getting good advice.

My .2...

Call CPS then watch and listen.

A crying child isn't always a panic situation, granted. A lot of people living in one home isn't a panic situation. I have seen tons of peeps living in the same place in the homes of the mountain folks i see as patients.

But, if you are having gut feelings, go with that. Call CPS, let them handle it and keep a watchful eye out. If you see something that IS neglect or a panic situation, and you are SURE about it, don't hesitate to call 911 at that time.

Be careful too i want to add, because one person's happy home may "appear" to be something it is not. Just watch...a lot.

The kids are lucky you are there. Whether they are abused, neglected or not. It's not an everyday thing anymore that people are willing to get involved. Watching out for all of our kids is a good thing.

Good for you.

[LaneyDoll]

Originally Posted by guihong

My question: Is this sufficient to call CPS, as I am required to do? I can do this anonymously, although I bet they'd figure it out. Or, do I approach Duane with my concerns and the position I'm in? He and I get along reasonably well. Or, talk to the leasing office (on property)? Or, nothing? WWYD?

I am not sure about what you should or shouldn't do. It is a hard call. But, I would not approach Duane directly OR talk to the leasing office. If you talk to the office, he WILL find out, trust me.

If you contact CPS, I would tell them what you have stated here and that you feel an obligation to report, given your teaching license.

I have to wonder though, could you be making a less-than-great situation bad? My oldest had severe trouble with ear infections as a baby and he cried and cried but he was never even remotely in any harm's way.

On the other hand, you do not want to be in a "if only I had called sooner" situation.

At any rate, I would start paying more attention to see if anything there sways your thoughts in one way or the other.

Best of luck to you!

[Semantics]

Originally Posted by guihong

I haven't the slightest idea where to put this, but I need some advice from those wiser than I.

First, I am a teacher, and by law I must report suspected child abuse or even just hinkey feelings. Failure to do so could mean I lose my license. I have found out that this means 24/7, not just the dirty/bruised child in school that would be an easy case.

If you're worried about your license an anonymous report defeats the purpose, because according to the scenario you've outlined that doesn't cover your ass if you fear being held responsible for not reporting.

These things vary so widely by location, but I can tell you that smoking around children can be considered neglect in certain situations, such as when a child has asthma or some other condition aggravated by the smoke and the parents refuse to stop smoking around them in enclosed areas. This is rare, however.

It's hard to give an opinion without hearing the amount and the severity of the crying or arguing. Babies cry and families argue. If you feel that either constitutes neglectful behavior or potential harm to the children you should make the report.

I'm sorry. I'm a mandated reporter, as well, and these decisions can be difficult.

[MissPriss]

IF you are uncomfortable about anything, even if you are not sure it is physical abuse, you should call. Dont doubt yourself or think its none of your business, you could be the only one that could stop it from going further and one of those children ending up dead.

[RavynTuqiri]

That's a tough call...I too would have to go with the "gut" feeling....and what have you observed? Are the children always hungry or appear always dirty?

My kid as a baby had colic...crying for hours on end at night was my life for about 6 weeks until she "grew" out of it.

Asking you to take his kids to the pool doesn't signify abuse to me, as you state, you feel you have a decent relationship with the guy....more like a guy who isn't making decisions with his kids as the priority.

Hard to say anything about the number of people in the house...could be cultural, could be just a sign of these hard economic times, or just plain poor decision making.

I would also be curious if your daughter had said anything about the "condition" of her friend...bruises, reports of "falling down" alot or "running" into things.

Bottom line is...trust your intuition and as said before...better to err on the side of caution than not to report anything out of fear of retaliation. And bringing it up to the apartment manager...would be worse and confronting the potential abuser? Not a good idea..they always deny it.

[Mister Bent]

As others have stated, it's hard to make a decision without knowing the severity of crying and arguing, or what other signs indicate to you there may be abuse or neglect.

Essentially, however, it is CPS who has to make that decision, and they rely on people like you (or me, or the guy next door) to raise that concern (having now read Heart's post - ETA: Or maybe not!). The concern, I think, is that simply getting CPS involved sometimes tips a not-so-great situation, into a truly bad one. It's unfortunate, but true, and puts you in the situation of having to roll the dice.

If I were in your shoes, I think I'd at least be trying to find out what kind of track record CPS in my area had. Are they known for yanking children from homes, or helping to facilitate for over-stressed families by finding resources, providing support, etc.

[tantalizingfemme]

This is from the Arkansas.Gov website. It may help.


What is abuse?
Abuse can be physical or sexual. It includes non-accidental physical injury, shaking a baby, tying a child up, and giving or exposing a child to alcohol or other drugs. Reasonable and moderate discipline (such as spanking) is generally not considered abuse as long as it does not cause injury more serious than transient pain or minor temporary marks and is administered by a parent or guardian. Arkansas code 12-12-503

What is neglect?
Neglect is failing to provide for appropriate food, shelter, clothing, and medical care for a child. It is also failing to provide an education for a child: home schooling is NOT considered educational neglect. Neglect also includes failing to prevent abuse of a child. Leaving a child in a situation that puts the juvenile at risk of harm (such as leaving a young child alone at home or in a vehicle) is also considered neglect. Arkansas code 12-12-503

Do I have to report abuse or neglect?
If you are a mandated reporter, you are required to report suspected abuse or neglect. Mandated reporters are:

•Child care worker or foster care worker
•Coroner
•Day care center worker
•Dentist
•Dental Hygienist
•Domestic abuse advocate
•Domestic Violence shelter employee
•Domestic violence shelter volunteer
•Employee of DHHS
•Employee working under contract for DYS
•Foster Parent
•Judge
•Law Enforcement Official
•Licensed nurse
•Any medical personnel who may be engaged in admission, examination or treatment Mental Health Professional
•Osteopath
•Peace Officer
•Physician
•Prosecuting Attorney
•Resident intern
•School counselor
•School Official
•Social Worker
•Surgeon
•Teacher
•Court Appointed Special Advocate staff member or volunteer
•Juvenile intake or probation officer
•Child Advocacy Center Employee
•Clergyman
TOP

I’m a mandated reporter – why wouldn’t the hotline accept my call? The hotline can only accept a call if what the caller reports meets the legal definitions of child abuse or neglect and if the child or family can be located.

What information will the hotline operator need? In order to accept the call, the hotline operator needs to know

•What happened
•Enough information to locate the child.
It is very helpful to also provide:

•The name and age of the child
•The caregiver’s name and address
•The county where the incident occurred or the child resides
•How the person calling knows the family
•Whether the child has injuries
•When the child was last seen and by whom
Having the following information can make the investigation go faster:

•Names of others in the home
•Where the child is located now
•Whether there are safety concerns in the home (alcohol/drugs, weapons, etc.)
•Who else knows or was told of the situation
•Whether there has been a report made to the local police

I snipped and clipped. Not sure if you looked at this already. Good luck!

[moxie]

As a therapist, I worked only with clients with open CPS cases for years in my current state of residence. And I am basing everything I am saying on my experience and rules here in my state.

I have made numerous reports, none of which were anonymous and many of which were not investigated by CPS; however, the anonymity of an anonymous report is based on the fact that they won't be able to follow up with you to get more details. If you give your name and such when you make a report, the investigative and on-going (if it gets to that point) CPS workers ARE NOT supposed to tell the family they are investigating/open on who made the report. That part is supposed to always remains anonymous to the family no matter if you made an anonymous report or not. Does this always happen? Hell no. But it is supposed to, at least here it is.

I would talk to the apartment complex about the smoke if you can smell it all the way in your apartment, I would do that whether there were kids or not because I am persnickety about that. If the "fight" between the guy and his GF got physical there is the whole domestic violence aspect you need to report. If not, and you do not suspect any physical abuse or obvious neglect,I would say that you would have to have a REALLY good relationship with Duane to be able to talk with him about it because if you don't he may feel like you are trying to tell him how to parent and are meddling.

[Heart]

Originally Posted by guihong

I haven't the slightest idea where to put this, but I need some advice from those wiser than I.

First, I am a teacher, and by law I must report suspected child abuse or even just hinkey feelings. Failure to do so could mean I lose my license. I have found out that this means 24/7, not just the dirty/bruised child in school that would be an easy case.

I live in an apartment complex and there is a family below me. The father is the maintenance supervisor for the complex. His daughter, age 12, is my daughter's best friend. Father had a live-in girlfriend who recently moved out amongst much drama and apparently a huge fight. That woman had a daughter, age 9, also friends with my daughter. So far, so good?

The gf also had a five-ish year old daughter and a 15 year old. The father, "Duane", has a 20 year old who has one baby of a little over a year, and she's pregnant again by a different man. GF is over a lot, and I suspect it isn't as over as it seems. All of these people live in the apartment off and on, and Duane's other daughter will be coming back shortly, so there's anywhere from 9 to 11 people living there. It's hard for me to follow, too.

I don't know if there's any physical abuse going on, except for the fact that all of the adults are smokers, so heavy that the smoke comes up through my window. They have also tried to get me to take the five-year old to the pool when I take my kids, but I refuse. I do know there is a lot of shouting and fighting, and that I hear the baby crying every night. It just sounds like a poor situation all around.

My question: Is this sufficient to call CPS, as I am required to do? I can do this anonymously, although I bet they'd figure it out. Or, do I approach Duane with my concerns and the position I'm in? He and I get along reasonably well. Or, talk to the leasing office (on property)? Or, nothing? WWYD?

I'm a mandated reporter in NYS, and it's not "hinky feelings," that spur reporting, its suspicion of immediate danger or educational/medical neglect.

Having a chaotic family with adults that smoke is not grounds for reporting. Neither is fighting between adults, unless the children are being threatened or harmed. Reporting should not be done without serious consideration as it can have traumatic consequences for families.

If you are reporting as a mandated reporter you cannot remain anonymous.

Also, I think it's kind of odd that you would seek advice about this online. Isn't there a professional, colleague, or supervisor you could discuss this with?

Heart