Something I just noticed..the very logo of the site

[Gráinne]

Hi, everyone:

Before I begin, I want to be very clear that: 1) this is not a criticism of Medusa and Jack, far from it; 2) I am not trying to start shit (well, a civil discussion is always OK ); and 3) I'm not asking for any changes to the site, as that would be a programmer's nightmare.

Recently there's been some heated threads, and threads gone awry due to a sexist comment or so. And as always on a site like this, there's usually a heavy thread about sexism or oppression.

One "theme" that's discussed often here is "Butches need to be like x, y and z" and "Femmes need to be a, b and c", usually superficial stuff. Closely related is "Femmes want butches who do e, f and g" and "Butches want femmes who do k, l, and m". By and large, whenever that sort of thing pops up, I think we do a pretty good job of handling it.

I think as a community, we're getting away from sorting everyone into "butch" and "femme", and dealing with everyone as an individual. Many of us just can't or won't be boxed into any grouping, despite the site name. I suspect that some of us are really here for broader support for being gay, and not to be any one label.

That's why I just noticed the logo of the site-that "butch" is in heavy black writing, sort of "plain", almost, and "femme" is in pretty pink and really curvasive writing. We've just had several threads about how not every butch is masculine or even tomboyish, and I'm a prime example of a "femme" who wouldn't be caught dead being girly and pink.

I guess I'm just surprised and even a bit amused that the logo itself is very "binary". I am NOT trying to offend or begin a huge fight, but I just felt I wanted to speak out and say "Hey, did anyone else see this?"

[The_Lady_Snow]

It's funny cause once upon a thread butches and fellas had requested that the B be bolder... It's grown on me the pink and green and this logo is wayyyy more aesthetic compared to the original.

I can't remember why the color scheme came about but I do like the style of the letter f, not sure why and love the use of black cause it's one of my fave colors

[jac]

Yes, I have actually studied the logo on countless occassions. The pink, green and black circles on the outside ALWAYS remind me of Spirograph. Gawsh there I go thinking games and play again... lol. I am guessing this is the orbit part of it all... And how pink highlights the F, the word femme and the word orbit. For some reason I find the Orbit in pink to be of greater interest to me than the F in pink. I also find it interesting that the choice of color was green and not blue but then again I have my own idea as to why it is...

I would be interested to know the reasoning and meaning behind the logo, the colors, etc.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Some herstory

http://www.butchfemmeplanet.com/foru...ead.php?t=2219

Originally Posted by stone4play

Yes, I have actually studied the logo on countless occassions. The pink, green and black circles on the outside ALWAYS remind me of Spirograph. Gawsh there I go thinking games and play again... lol. I am guessing this is the orbit part of it all... And how pink highlights the F, the word femme and the word orbit. For some reason I find the Orbit in pink to be of greater interest to me than the F in pink. I also find it interesting that the choice of color was green and not blue but then again I have my own idea as to why it is...

I would be interested to know the reasoning and meaning behind the logo, the colors, etc.

[cara]

I remember June spent days, if not weeks, looking for the perfect "f." I think it's an interesting observation and I, too, have noticed it from the beginning. I'm not offended by it, nor do I think there was an ulterior motive in choosing one font or color over the other. sometimes graphics are graphics with no intention behind them.

[Parker]

I pulled this from the link The Lady Snow provided because it looked like it might help to explain what you're seeing (emphasis mine).

Originally Posted by June

Thanks for playing everyone and for the suggestions.

The fancy font is called TheNautiGal (oddly) and the bold font is called MoolBoran.

I tried the Monogram idea, but because we are working with two swoopy letters, the B and the P, they end up looking better with something between them as more of a design element.

The green got taken a shade darker and we went for black because it made the green and pink pop more. The fancy font also serves as an accent and design element in the rest of the banner.

I have some spacing issues in Orbit I need to fix still. So if you're a little anal - Hold tight, it will get fixed

[Ginger]

Originally Posted by cara

I remember June spent days, if not weeks, looking for the perfect "f."

Tell me about it.

LOL

[iamkeri1]

There are arguments to be made for and against the logo, as there are arguments to be made for or against hundreds of topics, and we argue them every day here on the planet. The argument about the logo may turn out to be fun, but that is not the part of your post that I want to respond to. I want to respond to the quote below.

[QUOTE=guihong;636043]Hi, everyone:
I think as a community, we're getting away from sorting everyone into "butch" and "femme", a. nd dealing with everyone as an individual. Many of us just can't or won't be boxed into any grouping, despite the site name. I suspect that some of us are really here for broader support for being gay, and not to be any one label.

Forty years ago I was ridiculed at lesbian/gay woman/women who love women/whatever, gatherings for being femme. Butches were pretty acceptable because everyone looked butch. But if you SAID you were butch or that you like femmes, you faced the same ridicule. It was explained to us butches and femmes in almost the same words you use above that we, our identities, feelings, attractions, were passe'


If you or others here are neither butch nor femme, if you are here for broader support, that is fine, and welcome to you. But I am here for support for being femme. I am here to figure out where I fit in the world - following the death of my FTM husband. I was perceived as straight while we were together, but that role no longer fits. And following the years when I finished raising my kids alone ... when I was mother and father, taxi driver, financier, tutor, cheerleader, and disciplinarian. My youngest moved out a month ago so that role no longer fits either. Broke up with my FTM boyfriend a few months ago, so i am on my own entirely. Now I'm rattling around in a house designed for six people, and venturing out for the first time in many years into the gay community trying to answer some very big questions for myself. I am finding support for this journey from ny butch/femme people here.


Who am I? Time will tell. But I start with the knowledge that I am femme.


You're right, we should not label each other. But the people who told me butch/femme were "old time" forty years were wrong when they said the community had evolved beyond butch/femme, and I think you're wrong too. We are not butch or femme because someone has sorted us into a box. We are not looking for a solution that will release us as if we have been imprisoned in our chosen "role." We choose our path or are born into it. We have our struggles, but we're proud of our history and hopefull for the future. We SELF-identify. We like who we are.


There are lots of lesbian sites and gay sites. I can't speak for everyone, but I know that I am interested in this site BECAUSE it is a butch/femme site. I am femme. I am home here... and I am not passe'
Smooches,
Keri

[dark_crystal]

Originally Posted by guihong

I think as a community, we're getting away from sorting everyone into "butch" and "femme", and dealing with everyone as an individual. Many of us just can't or won't be boxed into any grouping, despite the site name. I suspect that some of us are really here for broader support for being gay, and not to be any one label.

Are we, really? I understand that we don't want to pro/pre-scribe anyone's gender for them, but a big part of our butch-femme movement was a reaction against second-wave feminism saying we were WRONG for being butch and femme because we were perpetuating the heteronormative gender binary.

I don't want to speak for Medusa, Jack, Rhon, etc., but--- these sites were, as I understand it, created to be a safe space to celebrate genders that did not fit the mainstream lesbian androgynous ideal

A place to come and find acceptance for gender expressions that were rejected in our local lesbian communities

It is great that some of us are able to come here to get support for general gayness, but making that into the purpose of the site ignores our movement's history ***IN MY SELDOM-HUMBLE OPINION***

"getting away from sorting everyone into 'butch' and 'femme'" has been going on since 1968 and many of us felt forced into politically correct expressions that did not match our identity. I personally came to this movement to escape that.

Of course you cannot say "femmes are always pink and frilly, and butches are always hard and blocky" but when you make a logo, you look at the broad strokes and create a shorthand. And looked at in broad strokes, from a distance like a Monet painting, you are absolutely going to see more pink in the femme areas of the canvas. It is not a requirement, but it is a reality

Sooo... I am totally OK with the "f," is what I am saying

[The_Lady_Snow]

I don't necessarily see it like this:


Pink = girl/feminine/woman/femme

Green = butch/masculine/guy

I personally look shitty in pink can rock the green while most if not all the guys in my own pack or the butches rock pink with pizzaz!!!


That's more of a binary thought that certain colors = gender..

[The_Lady_Snow]

I'd like to thank the people behind the scenes who take time away from their own lives so I can sit on my ass on my comfy chair hanging out on The Planet!



Thank you cause that's some love!

[BullDog]

Green and pink were already the colors of the site.
The F needed to fit aesthetically between the B and P. June asked for ideas about the font.
We are here because we resonate with the butch femme dynamic.
I think that's about it.
Oh and the fact that June spent tons and tons of time on the logo.

[ruffryder]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

Some herstory

http://www.butchfemmeplanet.com/foru...ead.php?t=2219

From the above link :

Originally Posted by June

The size of the letters is not about hierarchy, or sexism. Our initials are BFP. Our name is butchfemmeplanet.com. When I type it out, Butch doesn't get capitalized over Femme, they are both caps. Example: "We belong to a Butch Femme Planet." Not a BUTCH femme planet.

When we do BFP it tends to look like a block. In my head, Butch isn't more "important" than Femme or Planet. We are looking for something that is visually appealing and incorporates our color scheme and the feel, as much as possible. In this case, it makes sense that the middle letter we're using as part of our brand is different, so as to avoid a block. I am tending to use a lower case, script "F" because they tend to give a nicer contrast between the two other letters.

I hope that makes better sense and we can stop overpersonalizing the size of our...fonts.

I never really noticed it up close and personal before till this thread came about. I knew I like it! no, no I love it! The colors and logo all combine together perfectly. . and I like pink in logos and things as such and wear pink too! I think it makes something stand out and be noticed. Nothing to do with butch, femme or any gender. very well done!

[Medusa]

When we were discussing the colors for the say way back in March of 2009 (which was a full 7 months before we opened), the conversations were many and varied.

I went back and looked at the chat logs between myself and Juney and Dykeinabox and PapaChris. (these were the folks who I chose to share the idea with and get input and suggestions from) from that time.
I purchased the domain name in January of 2009 and sat on it for 2 months before telling a soul but when we Juney and I had the converation in March about the site, it went something like this:

Me: I'm building a paradise for anyone who wants to come, and I think they will because they're tired of the bullshit.

June: Show me and maybe I'll have time to do a logo!

Me: here it is: www.butchfemmeplanet.com

June: That logo is ugly!

Me: I know!

Thus ensued conversations about what would be fun and less binary. We tried combinations of just about everything and narrowed it down to pink and green and blue and orange. Needless to say, the blue and orange was very Florida Gators and I think the pink and green symbolized a fresh start and new hope.

It really didn't have anything to do with finding representative colors of green for Butches and pink for Femmes although I see how folks can interpret it that way.

It was much more about, what looks good and what makes sense. Green made sense for "fresh" and pink made sense for "hope". We wanted something vibrant and fun, not dark and forboding.

I'll post a pic of the mock up logo I sent June way back in the day so y'all can laugh your asses off.

[Gentle Tiger]

Really? Of all the things to spend mental energy on, are we really now dissecting someone's hard work for this community? Really? Have we run out of topics that will lead to positive discussion and moving instead to dissect the logo? Really???

I'm not moderating yet. I'm just amazed!

[Miss Scarlett]

Originally Posted by Gentle Tiger

Really? Of all the things to spend mental energy on, are we really now dissecting someone's hard work for this community? Really? Have we run out of topics that will lead to positive discussion and moving instead to dissect the logo? Really???

I'm not moderating yet. I'm just amazed!

i asked myself the exact same questions this morning...

[NorCalStud]

The very reason I am on this site is bcuz it is a Butch Femme site. I never never never want any other way. Just last nite I found myself kinda worrying whether there would ever be enough members who joined and did not identify as bf...to change this site into a gay blend of people who are not into identification. Reading responses today makes me feel better. I do not appreciate an implication(imply not infer)(lol) that bf is a faze and that in a bettr reality we dont need to identify. It took me awhile to find a safe place to land. If you dont believe it can make a difference for life...attend a reunion...and come home. Come home and see all of us being us.

[Arwen]

Originally Posted by Gentle Tiger

Really? Of all the things to spend mental energy on, are we really now dissecting someone's hard work for this community? Really? Have we run out of topics that will lead to positive discussion and moving instead to dissect the logo? Really???

I'm not moderating yet. I'm just amazed!

I think it has the potential to morph into something a bit bigger than the logo (which I personally adore). And it is a topic that traditionally we have always wandered back to.

Not the logo.
The binary thing.

I am the F.

[*Anya*]

Sometimes a cigar, is just a cigar.

I absolutely love pink. It is my favorite color!

I decided to approach this issue differently, wondering if I loved pink for reasons other than sexism and the fact that I own mostly pink articles of clothing (including bras and panties).

This is only one of several studies that I found that present the findings regarding the how and why of possible preference for pink among most (please note that I said most before you write to me that you, personally, hate pink) women.

I found it fascinating. Oh and one of the researchers real name is Anya, so I really liked the findings.

Some preferences are biological in basis, not everything is unconscious sexism.

The flowing, curvey "f"? I would have to give that one some thought. Hey! I like it before you say anything! Trying to I inject some levity here!



ScienceDaily (Aug. 22, 2007) — A study in Current Biology reports some of the first conclusive evidence in support of the long-held notion that men and women differ when it comes to their favorite colors. Indeed, the researchers found that women really do prefer pink--or at least a redder shade of blue--than men do.

"Although we expected to find sex differences, we were surprised at how robust they were, given the simplicity of our test," said Anya Hurlbert of Newcastle University, UK. In the test, young adult men and women were asked to select, as rapidly as possible, their preferred color from each of a series of paired, colored rectangles.

The universal favorite color for all people appears to be blue, they found. "On top of that, females have a preference for the red end of the red-green axis, and this shifts their color preference slightly away from blue towards red, which tends to make pinks and lilacs the most preferred colors in comparison with others," she said.

Overall, the differences between men and women were clear enough that'll the seasoned researchers can now usually predict the sex of a participant based on their favorite-color profile.

To begin to address whether sex differences in color preference depend more on biology or culture, the researchers tested a small group of Chinese people amongst the other 171 British Caucasian study participants. The results among the Chinese were similar, Hurlbert said, strengthening the idea that the sex differences might be biological. The explanation might go back to humans' hunter-gatherer days, when women--the primary gatherers--would have benefited from an ability to key in on ripe, red fruits.

"Evolution may have driven females to prefer reddish colors--reddish fruits, healthy, reddish faces," Hurlbert said. "Culture may exploit and compound this natural female preference."

She said another way to separate "nature versus nurture" when it comes to favorite colors will be to test the preferences of infants. The researchers have plans to modify the color-choice test for use in young babies and hope to have some answers on that front soon.

About the universal preference for blue, "I can only speculate," said Hurlbert. "I would favor evolutionary arguments again here. Going back to our 'savannah' days, we would have a natural preference for a clear blue sky, because it signaled good weather. Clear blue also signals a good water source."

The researchers include Anya C. Hurlbert and Yazhu Ling of Newcastle Univesity in Newcastle upon Tyne,UK.

References

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0820120720.htm
Hurlbert and Ling: "Biological components of sex differences in colour preference." Publishing in Current Biology, 21 August 2007, R623-625.

[Arwen]

The whole binary color thing isn't that old, socially speaking. It only goes back to the late 19th/ early 20th century.

It used to be that we dressed our children in the same type outfit until they were a certain age.

And we didn't judge a child's sex by the color of the clothing. Shocking, I know.

Here's an interesting article on this subject from the Smithsonian.