Friendship Circles: Gender Differences in How We Do It?

[Medusa]

So, I'm curious about something.

Ive had this discussion with a lot of my girlfriends over the years and this even came up on the Dash site a few times way back when.

Do you think that Femmes, Butches, Transguys, and Transwomen build friendships differently?

Namely, I remember way back in the day that Daddy Rhon made a comment about how Butches were "little islands unto themselves" when it came to friendships.

I'll put a poll up to see if we can tease this out a little better but Im curious as to what your perceptions are around how we build friendships. Maybe there truly are no differences in how we do it with relation to gender?

For example, do you feel like Femmes generally connect with their girlfriends more often through text or phone? Do Butches really "hate" the phone in general (talking tongue in cheek here)?

Give me a few minutes for the poll and I'll come back with more thoughts...


POLL ALLOWS FOR MULTIPLE SELECTIONS!

[Julie]

I have noticed throughout the years and the differences between my butch partners and myself. I find it necessary to connect with my girls. It feeds my soul and allows *us* to process and share moments in our lives. It also gives us the space to laugh, cry and scream with one another. I have noticed that my partners (present and past) do not have these same type of relationships.

For example a conversation between Dreamer and I.

Dreamer - So darling did you talk to *** today?
Julie - Yes baby, we talked and I also talked to *** and ***.
Julie - What about you? Have you connected with ***
Dreamer - No, I really need to do that!

Why is that?

For me, and it doesn't have to be daily - but I thrive on those relationships I have developed with my femme sisters. I share my day with them. I also share my day with Dreamer, but our conversations are different. I wish Dreamer would have those same type of relationships with other butches that I have with Femme's. I think it's really healthy to have other people to process with or laugh with, other than your partner.

Just my thoughts!

[Jar]

I have a variety of friends ... butches, FTMs, femmes and straight friends. I think they're all a little different when I think about it. I tend to be a good listener to my femme friends because I think they talk things out more than my other friends and the talks seem to a more intimate. If there's something that makes me sad, I'll talk to a femme friend but when I'm angry I'll probably talk to a butch/FTM friend.

With my butch and FTM friends it's more like "hey dude! How you doing?" and we talk about stuff, but not feelings, emotions .... etc. I love my straight friends but I don't talk about my personal life in much detail so having friends in this community is really important to me.

As for the telephone, I can talk all day on my cell but when I'm home I hate the phone (well, there are exceptions )

I wouldn't really describe myself as an "island". Though I do tend to work out problems on my own or make decisions on my own without reaching out, I do think I'm pretty much an open book. I think communication is key to any relationship, be it friendship or a romantic relationship.

I'll probably be back after I think about it more but that's my first take on it ......

[Kelt]

This looks really interesting, *subscribing*. Is this poll one or multiple answers?

[Medusa]

Originally Posted by Kelt

This looks really interesting, *subscribing*. Is this poll one or multiple answers?

You can pick multiple answers!!

[Linus]

For me friendship is one of those greatly desired things but often fleeting. I have a few friends from high school that I could meet up today and continue conversations we started ages ago. But we don't talk regularly (unless Facebook discussions count). I think our social interactions have changed a lot and phone conversations aren't the only common mechanism (at least not for me).

Part of this is probably from my lack of creating strong bonds with people as a teenager (I never had a friend, really, until I was 17 or thereabouts -- and those friends I still have today but talk via facebook and when I travel there).

Also, I'd point out that transpersons come in a variety of flavours (much like Butch and Femme do) but know that the poll options are limited and we're just too varied a bunch to do the whole poll idea full justice.

[Medusa]

Originally Posted by Linus

Also, I'd point out that transpersons come in a variety of flavours (much like Butch and Femme do) but know that the poll options are limited and we're just too varied a bunch to do the whole poll idea full justice.

Agreed! I was trying to figure out a way to make space for all the various flavors of Butch, Femme, and Trans folks and it was becoming a mess. Hope folks will forgive the clunky poll!!

[Sparkle]

As to friendships and gender identity...

I'm reluctant to make any generalizations about the ways in which Butches/Femmes/Transfolks value, build or maintain friendships because I believe our differences (as regards relationship building) fall less along gender lines and more along personality/character trait lines.

But I'm really interested to read other peoples opinions and experiences.

I'm a Femme and I have a lot of friends dotted all over the world and I have a small group of close friends with whom I bare my soul, also dotted all over the world.

The level of closeness of my friendships is not a direct corollary to geographic nearness. A couple of my closest friends live far-far-away and a couple live right here in town.

I tend to keep in touch with my people who are far away via social media, email and occasional video chats; with those people I know that even though we don't see each other very often, our connection is strong. I am indebted to the WWW for giving me the tools to stay close to those people.

When I need to talk about something, or want to be social, I prefer to do it in person with my closest people and I'm fortunate enough to have close people who live locally, so it's easy to do that.

But I HATE talking on the phone. hate-hate-hate it.

I spend a lot of time talking on the phone and/or schmoozing people in my jobs, the last thing I want to do when I get home is talk on the phone or have to sustain a conversation with someone that I am not close to.

Most of my closest people know that the best way to reach me is via text message or email. Text communications feel a little less demanding and invasive to me, they give me some space and time to reply. I can finish cooking dinner or watching a program or reading a chapter - before I reply. I can really take some time to think about how I feel, what I want or how I wish to reply - before I do.

Time feels so precious and so fleeting some days that I'm relieved to put my phone on the charger in the other room and be unencumbered for a couple of hours.

This feeling of time being fleeting has also changed the way I view my friendships.

I have more delineated circles of relationships now...(than I used to)

My core people (my partner, my siblings, my best friends) this is a pretty small group - 10 or less people.

And then concentric circles that include friends, family members, colleagues that I feel more or less connected to.

I choose to invest my time and love and support and energy in that core circle of people --- I still like a lot of other people and consider them friends but I don't invest as much in our relationships as I might have in the past.

[Cin]

I don't like talking on the phone. I call my mother once a week that's enough. I like doing stuff with my friends. That's what friends are for. At least for me. If somebody has a problem or needs to talk then of course I'm there for that. And if I have a problem and I need an ear I will talk to someone I trust. But generally speaking I don't want to just chat. At least not JUST chat. Conversation in the course of doing something else absolutely. But just talk for the sake of talking not my thing. Probably a good thing too, because I'm terrible at just talking. I tend to talk about stuff that bores people. Then their eyes glaze over and I feel guilty. But if I have to listen to conversations about so and so and his mother's aunt's cousin's uncle who cheats on his wife and the wife knows and puts up with it and the like for too long I will slump to the ground and curl in a ball. I'm a terrible conversationalist. I missed out on that gene. Thankfully I like doing stuff so I can be somewhat useful as friend.

[Medusa]

Originally Posted by Miss Tick

I don't like talking on the phone. I call my mother once a week that's enough. I like doing stuff with my friends. That's what friends are for. At least for me. If somebody has a problem or needs to talk then of course I'm there for that. And if I have a problem and I need an ear I will talk to someone I trust. But generally speaking I don't want to just chat. At least not JUST chat. Conversation in the course of doing something else absolutely. But just talk for the sake of talking not my thing. Probably a good thing too, because I'm terrible at just talking. I tend to talk about stuff that bores people. Then their eyes glaze over and I feel guilty. But if I have to listen to conversations about so and so and his mother's aunt's cousin's uncle who cheats on his wife and the wife knows and puts up with it and the like for too long I will slump to the ground and curl in a ball. I'm a terrible conversationalist. I missed out on that gene. Thankfully I like doing stuff so I can be somewhat useful as friend.

You bring up a thought for me, Miss Tick!

I've noticed that my conversations with my girlfriends have really evolved over the years with regard to what it is we talk most about.

In my very early 20s, I tended to have friends where we ended up talking about people we knew, events, etc.

Now in my later years, most of the conversations I have with my closest Femme friends end up being about concepts. We process relationship stuff, gender stuff, our histories as women, politics, even spirituality. Don't get me wrong, we do enjoy the occasional foray into food and crafting

[Little Fish]

Medusa, I think you raise an interesting topic here--I know I've had the same conversation with both butch and femme friends over the years. While I don't have a lot of time right now, I'll share a few quick thoughts:

-all but two of my queer/gay friends are femme or *not* butch--and those two are both hetero-identified trans men

-I'd like more butch friends but find connecting with them (literally, as in actually *finding* them) challenging (are we *that* rare??!)

-this same conversation came up between spritzerj and myself--she put it best I think..when explaining why butches seem to have more femme friends and vice versa she said, "even in our platonic friendships, the pairing of our butch and femme energies underscore the complimentary nature and goodness of our fit"...that really resonated with me

-my concern for butches...do we become we socially isolated in the same way hetero males do when they marry? I watch over and over how husbands lose their friends after they marry women--anyone have this concern?

Good poll Medusa, keep us posted--thank you

[Martina]

Originally Posted by Medusa

For example, do you feel like Femmes generally connect with their girlfriends more often through text or phone?

This is from the Original Post. It assumes that femmes' femme friends are their girlfriends.

[Medusa]

Originally Posted by Martina

This is from the Original Post. It assumes that femmes' femme friends are their girlfriends.

*sigh*

I am speaking in my personal vernacular. (as most people often do when writing a post).

You certainly do not have to adopt my language. Insert "one another" or whatever makes you most comfortable so that this discussion can continue about the subject and not the semantics.

[Julie]

Originally Posted by Martina

This is from the Original Post. It assumes that femmes' femme friends are their girlfriends.

Again, you are making assumptions. This was simply used as an example. It feels like you are picking out key words and dissecting them. This is about relationships and the friendships we have forged and how we navigate them.

Interesting based on this example the OP gave, we heard from butches as well. I wonder why they felt okay to respond? - This question asked based on your reaction to the example.

[Martina]

Originally Posted by Julie

I wonder why they felt okay to respond? - This question asked based on your reaction to the example.

Because other questions were asked as well. ??

[Dreamer]

I responded as I read the example given by the OP as just that an example and how it may have related to her, I then looked at how I would relate to the actual question and adjusted it to fit my status. I guess I assumed everyone would do the same, but then I out of everyone should know, never assume because always someone will prove you wrong.

[Julie]

Originally Posted by Martina

Because other questions were asked as well. ??

Yet, you chose to dissect that one.

And with that said... Back to the OP question. I think this has the opportunity to be a really healthy dialogue. I am interested in learning more about the relationships we have with others and how others navigate them. I loved reading Dreamer's words to this question. I already knew the reasoning behind much of it, but it was nice to see it here. I think whenever we are given the opportunity to express ourselves in an open forum and share our experiences, we learn about one another.

We are talking about friendships and in the process... Who knows, a few new friendships might evolve.

Love this topic!!!

[Martina]

Originally Posted by Julie

Yet, you chose to dissect that one.

Indeed, because that one purportedly addressed me AS it excluded me. But, I agree. Back to the topic.

[Kätzchen]

So, what a great thing to think about: How do we build friendships, who or how we trend toward - in terms of friendship or how we cultivate friendship, our tendency or desireable method of communication, et al.

I identify as Femme and I count membership in this particular community as the longest setting of time devoted to my own character development, personal growth and cultivating friendship with others who share similarity within the context of Butch & Femme (and/or as a community of like-minded individuals who identify anywhere within the spectrum of Butch/Femme Identity).

I think it's healthy to participate in a social-media website that is specifically created for our own personal enjoyment but also because it's painfully clear that some (or many) of us do not have ways to establish friendships locally and find that cultivating and developing friendships with others in our online community, feels positive to me.

About communication preferences: I enjoy face-to-face communication the most, but don't always have a way to hang out with people I've known for years or even with those I have not known for as long as those I've known for better than ten years (20+ years, in one case).

I have 3 really close girlfriends: two of whom identify as Femme (they're members here) and one who does not; and of the three, two are married or are in long-term relationships. My closest long-term Femme friend is single and she lives out on the coast, she's also about five years older than me. She also identifies as Bi-sexual and Lesbian and she came out in her thirties (she's almost 60 years old now - so hard to believe!) We talk with each other primarily via email and talk by phone at least 4 or five times a year, but more if necessary - for example, a health crisis or work-related issue that need sorting out, but mostly we (my Femme friend who lives out on the coast) meet up at least once a year and spend a weekend in each other's company, just to enjoy one another, bond and have tons of fun.

And, since I am phone-less (right now), I couldn't be happier, I suppose because one time recently, maybe a year ago or so now, I was saying that I might end up using 'smoke signals'. *lol* And it's come to that, unfortunately, but not for long. So yes, having access to communicate via the interwebz is vital to my sanity... I like telephone conversations but for me to really benefit from cultivating and developing and maintaining vital friendships/relationship, I must say that hands down, Face-2-Face wins, pretty much all the time (primarily).

About whether I think gender is a factor in building/cultivating/developing/maintaining friendships:

Maybe. But for the most part I would say no. I think most people I am friends with I either met via a workplace setting or randomly at places I have been (the grocery store or places I frequent on a regular basis) or went to school with or any other number of ways in which we formed relationships with people we know fairly well. My circle of Femme friends is very small.... my circle of close family friends is small, too.

I would say that for me, it takes time for me to really know someone and I would think likewise, for them. I think I can agree that for me, it's an organic process - the idea on how friendships (any relationship, really) begin and flourish over time.

[Gemme]

Originally Posted by Miss Tick

Of course I might have less expectations for a straight man than I do for another queer.

I know I do. I expect hella better behavior and understanding from my community than the general straight population. Some days I think that's fair and some days I think I expect too much, but it is what it is.