Mammograms

[pinkajl]

I know this isn't probably the most comfortable topic for the Butch forum, but I would appreciate hearing feedback from those of you who have gone for a mammogram, particularly when it's been because you've discovered a lump.

Ultimately, I'm looking to understand how to best support my butch partner with this. She's at the far end of the butch spectrum as you can get, before becoming trans. We never talk about "breasts" but about her "chest".

The lump is scary enough, but the whole feminizing process of the exam is what's really the issue (at least for today).

Thanks.

[The_Lady_Snow]

It's a lump, get hym/him/ze to a doctor because we just can't ignore stuff like this!!!

Male identified people get breast cancer too, don't wait please it's to risky!

Good luck!

[chefhmboyrd]

Breast Cancer is not confined to women. Men get breast cancer too.
I am more than happy to have my chest examined and get a mammogram. It doesn't make me any less a man (or would it make a butch any less butch)
i would much rather be a Live man than a dead one from ignoring my health.
As a side note, I still have my regular "check up" on my mangina.
Pabst Blue Ribbon Smear..............
Even if I call them different names, my body parts still need to be monitored and treated. It would be a mistake to ignore my health. I would much rather undergo a few moments of discomfort than years of pain, chemo, anguish and possible death.

IMHO

[Miss_J]

The reality is this, Breast cancer kills, it is as indiscriminate a killer as could be. It robs families of loved ones and has NEVER been gender specific.
Get your head around the fact that taking care of your body, in what ever skin suit you are currently in, is your responsibility and honestly your privelege.
We preach acceptance of our lovestyle/lifestyle/butch/femme/trans identities and expect others to grasp the importance of it all. We should in turn practice what we preach and accept ourselves, respect ourselves and take care of ourselves to the very best of our ability.
I'm going for My mammogram on Wednesday and I'm not looking forward to any part of that process but I know as a cancer survivor and someone who has lost numerous friends to this serial killer, I owe it to myself to do it.

Good luck to you and your butch as fucked up psychologically as it is having to endure the screening. How much more fucked up would it be to lose that precious life due to lack of action.

[Thinker]

Originally Posted by pinkajl

I know this isn't probably the most comfortable topic for the Butch forum, but I would appreciate hearing feedback from those of you who have gone for a mammogram, particularly when it's been because you've discovered a lump.

Ultimately, I'm looking to understand how to best support my butch partner with this. She's at the far end of the butch spectrum as you can get, before becoming trans. We never talk about "breasts" but about her "chest".

The lump is scary enough, but the whole feminizing process of the exam is what's really the issue (at least for today).

Thanks.

The stress surrounding that visit and exam is so great, and I feel for your butch. I get it.

It's been a number of years since I went through that, but I do remember how it all feels. And I want to encourage you...or him/hym/her......to talk to the technician in advance and be honest about the stress.

It makes a HUGE difference to get down to that level.....to be vulnerable and honest........and say to them it stresses you out, makes you uncomfortable, and feels pretty damn gross. Just do it, and I promise you it will make things better.

Best wishes...

[theoddz]

Okay, I'm just about as uncomfortable discussing this stuff as any other guy would be, but let me tell you, Snow's right about even men get breast cancer.
I want to say here to butches and transguys alike, who don't know this yet, because it's hard for us to even want to wrap our minds around, BUT.....

Even though we may have had "top surgery", the chance does remain that we can still get breast cancer. And yes, men get it too. When I had my top surgery a few years back, I asked my surgeon about what I had to do to take care of myself, meaning the "new chest". Specifically, I wanted to know about self tests for breast cancer and such. In my mind, "they" were gone now and I was hoping that that little risk would be gone, too. The doc told me that, even though my risk was now substantially smaller, compared to before, I STILL needed to keep an eye on things and do regular self tests. This surprised the hell out of me and taught me something I didn't know. I guess this is because I've never heard, or thought, that men were ever warned, specifically, about things like breast cancer.

My surgeon went on to explain that, in the breast, you have milk ducts and milk glands. Men usually have few, if any, milk glands, but they do have milk ducts. Breast cancer, by and large, he said, usually occurs in the milk glands. Hence, men shouldn't have the high incidence that women have, but they still CAN and DO get it!!

So, to my family out there who may or may not have had top surgery.....you're still in this, too!!! Don't think that, just because you have that new chest that you get a free pass on this stuff......you don't. Do your self exams!!!! Be safe. I'm super dysphoric about this stuff, too, but I keep an eye on things because I don't want the alternative. Colonoscopies are the other unpleasant thing....get those too!!!! Start at age 50 or before, if you show symptoms, or have a higher risk in your family for that stuff, but GET 'EM!!!



~Theo~

[Little Fish]

Hello--
Everyone here has given some sound advice and supprort.
Let me offer my own-
I'm a physician. If you want to PM me to discuss further I'd be happy to help however I can....
Having said that, I would also suggest checking out the physician directory for the Gay and Lesbian Medical Association (GLMA)--they may have docs in your area for both primary care and other specialties as well. Also, larger metro/university medical centers will tend to have more queer/ally staff as a general rule....

Following up on a found lump is frightening, I would encourage you both to just breathe and stay centered. First things first, lets see what we're dealing with here--could be LOTS of other things....
Best of luck to you,
Little Fish, MD ;-)

[pinkajl]

Thanks for the replies. We are aware of the whole men-can-get-breast-cancer thing. More importantly, we're already on top of this - as the mammogram is today.

I'm truly interested in hearing some of the personal reflections of butches and transguys who have been through this. I knew the emotional reaction was deep, but it really came to the surface today. I was told not go come along to the appointment, which I understand and respect. But, I do want to be prepared for what might come back home to me in a couple of hours.

Thanks,
Pink

ps- For those of you who know us in real life, I ask that you gently approach this topic with the utmost of discretion (especially if you see us this weekend at Pride). We're handling this seriously and are prepared to do whatever is necessary, depending upon the results. But, you know the ego we're dealing.

[pinkajl]

Originally Posted by Little Fish

Following up on a found lump is frightening, I would encourage you both to just breathe and stay centered. First things first, lets see what we're dealing with here--could be LOTS of other things....
Best of luck to you,
Little Fish, MD ;-)

Little Fish,

Thank you very much for chiming in and offering your medical opinion. If it's not too much trouble, could you give us a short list of what some of the "other things" a lump could be related to? My partner is 47.

Pink.

[Thinker]

Originally Posted by pinkajl

Thanks for the replies. We are aware of the whole men-can-get-breast-cancer thing. More importantly, we're already on top of this - as the mammogram is today.

I'm truly interested in hearing some of the personal reflections of butches and transguys who have been through this. I knew the emotional reaction was deep, but it really came to the surface today. I was told not go come along to the appointment, which I understand and respect. But, I do want to be prepared for what might come back home to me in a couple of hours.

Thanks,
Pink

ps- For those of you who know us in real life, I ask that you gently approach this topic with the utmost of discretion (especially if you see us this weekend at Pride). We're handling this seriously and are prepared to do whatever is necessary, depending upon the results. But, you know the ego we're dealing.

I won't argue the "rightness" or "wrongness" of what I'm about to say......just putting it out there as some of the gut-level, honest emotions I experienced around those visits and exams.

It was a feeling of embarrassment........maybe even shame. Depending on the attitude of the technicians, it felt violating (I'm talking about mammograms as well as other exams).

Just follow your butch's lead in discussing it.....give lots of warm space.

[*Anya*]

Originally Posted by pinkajl

Little Fish,

Thank you very much for chiming in and offering your medical opinion. If it's not too much trouble, could you give us a short list of what some of the "other things" a lump could be related to? My partner is 47.

Pink.

Hi Pink,

I hope it is ok for a femme to post here.

I am RN and have had to deal with this issue with patients but also personally.

Some "other reasons" for lumps that I have experienced myself: two benign lumps that had to be removed (complete with ultrasound and needle biopsies) and a benign cyst that had to be drained.

It is easy to panic as the spector of breast CA is so scary for all of us-regardless of identity but lumps do not always mean cancer.

Hugs to you both and hang in there.

[pinkajl]

Thinker, thank you for your honesty. That is precisely what we're dealing with. There's that one side to the situation where we know we will not ignore this at all. But there's also that dysphoric smack in the face where you're almost willing to bargain for something more serious to deal with just so you don't have to suffer the violation of identity.

Right or wrong we use humor to cope sometimes and have privately joked that maybe this will get us a 2-for-1 special on top surgery.

Anya, of course I don't mind that femmes post on this thread. I sincerely appreciate any and all thoughtful comments that will help us both cope, individually and together.

Thanks,
Pink

[Turtle]

As usual, I have a "some of this-some of that" opinion of my body...and my breasts in particular.

That said, I find a mammogram one of the less bothersome tests or procedures that can happen. Everybody has a different opinion about what is a bother, a violation, or nervewracking. I find a mammogram a fairly quick test, although, the first time for anything can produce more anxiety.

For me, it would "bother" me more to have a 21 year old bio guy do the mammogram than a 45 year old woman. In my experience different labs have always had women perform mammograms. Some places are better at warming up the surface of the plate better that others or have a nicer environment.

What does bother me is if I perceive that the wait time after the first round of scans takes too long - the wait to see if they need any more images, if the scans are not clear, if I moved, if they see something...if that wait time lasts a nanosecond longer than I think it should anxiety starts creeping in.

Strategies to deal with the whole thing and it's problem spots could be put in place:

Diversion - partner or friend for conversation, reading, video game, etc.

Thought ahead of time - (I am a man)... Do I want to shave off my goatee to get a mammogram - No. Biomen get breast cancer.... When you get a scan, you wear one of those hospital "johnnie" things and they see all types of legs and feet sticking out from there - stillettos and hose, jeans and sneakers, cowboy boots...what are my thoughts and feelings, is all that true, does it matter?????

Fantasy - (to deal with I look like a man, what is HE doing in here) I might consider that I am in a sci-fi scenerio, going thru the same medical screening that everybody - of all different types of bodies - goes thru before we leave the planet on our mission. (yes, i know i'm weird)

So much of this has to do with my thought process of what I look like or who I think I am. Most hospital/lab workers are extremely professional and treat everybody well. They often just do what they have to do to do the test and don't even notice that I present as very butch and am wearing sandals with pink toenails sticking out of them.

And - many lumps are cysts. And - it could be cancer.

A Buddhist tool is to "What if" it -

So - what if it is cancer? - I'll freak out.
What if I freak out? - My honey/friend will help me calm down.
What is I don't calm down? the doctor will give me medication...the doctor will have a plan and present choices.
What if I can't take the medication? - I've always meant to learn how to meditate.
What if ....
What if .....
What if.... ...What if .... I die?

I will be dead, but we are going to Hawaii first, and I'm going to ask our friends to call and invite you over because I know you won't call them, and I'm going to ask you to promise to accept invitations so you don't rot in bed with the covers pulled over your head not knowing that you will eventually come out of it, and I'm gonna get you that red wagon you never got, and I want y'all to sing "Spirit of Life" at my memorial service and I want everybody to get a mylar balloon...

This is a good discussion to have with yourself and your family and friends. Talking about all your concerns actually helps. People often are afraid to talk about dying because people are afraid and and people love each other and people cry, but talking about it helps. It is the hidden thoughts and feelings that become problematic.

Cancer treatment centers know how to take care of people. They have a plan, they will guide you. There ARE choices you can make. They know people, especially people with cancer, need to be able to have some control over their own lives. The medical community is much better at this stuff than they used to be.

I know this seems crazy...and this is what we need to know when hopefully it is just a cyst and holy fucking shit I might have cancer.

May blessings, peace, good friends, and talented care be upon you...

[Novelafemme]

Originally Posted by pinkajl

Little Fish,

Thank you very much for chiming in and offering your medical opinion. If it's not too much trouble, could you give us a short list of what some of the "other things" a lump could be related to? My partner is 47.

Pink.

Hi Pink,

I'm not a doc and I apologize if this is out of line, but I have polycystic breasts - meaning that they are lumpy as hell! I was sent to a radiologist for my first mammogram just last year because I had a big old lump in my right breast that my family doc was concerned about. Long story short, I was told that I need to come in annually for mammograms since there is really no way for me to discern whether or not a lump is something to worry about.

Even though I am a femme, I have HUGE amounts of anxiety surrounding someone I don't know putting their hands on my body in intimate places. In my daily practice I am currently working on centering my thoughts (especially ruminative thinking) around my third eye. And if you aren't comfy with that lingo just think of it as a bright light that surrounds you, keeping you safe, holding you out of harm's way. And when I am in a situation that is uncomfortable, I channel all of my energy into that safety zone (or bright light) and trust that a higher power is holding me safe.

I hope that doesn't sound too hokey. It takes practice but feels really good when you start to feel the safety and comfort manifesting itself.

Good luck to your partner and please let us know what works for hym if hy is OK with that sharing!

[T4Texas]

I have mammograms yearly and being a cancer survivor, pelvics too. I found the mammogram to be least troublesome of the two and as someone mentioned , its often determined by the attitude of the tech performing it. You have to consider they may not know you are butch or have strong feelings about the procedure. Plus the fact they spend their day smashing peoples breasts so to them its just another customer. You just have to wrap your mind around the fact that its a necessary thing as early detection is key, take a deep breath, endure the discomfort and know that when its over you're in a better place. I found the pelvics to be much more invasive, painful and disturbing for me as a butch, but even that eased up after one of my doctors paitently explained to me..."just tell them to use a smaller speculum". Good luck with it and I hope all goes well.

[pynkkameleon]

I too apologize if I am out of place posting here. In fact, I really debated on saying anything but this is a subject that I am passionate about.

The advice given thus far is excellent. No matter what, the procedure is going to be uncomfortable both physically and emotionally. There's no way around it. It's that way for females and males alike. Yes, I know it is even more so for our butches and men but not having them simply is not an option as far as I'm concerned.

Mammogram technicians will generally do whatever they can to make you feel more comfortable with the procedure. They are professional and compassionate and know that it can be a frightening experience for anyone, particularly when it isn't a "routine" mammogram. I strongly suggest that there be a conversation with the technician. Be honest and voice those concerns.

Early detection is crucial. Self exams need to be performed regularly for both men and women. Many breast cancer patients are able to catch it early when they or a partner detect a difference and it is quickly followed up on. Most lumps turn out to be benign but still need to be followed up with regularly scheduled mammograms. Lumps or other breast changes cannot be ignored. Itching, redness, soreness, nipple discharge and other changes must be followed up on ASAP. Routine yearly mammograms need to be performed for anyone over 40 and even younger for those that have had previous concerns or are considered at high risk.

I found my own lump at 38. In my case it was cancer and had been there long enough to invade my lymph nodes as well. It is scary as hell to go through that but thank the fuck that it was found before it had a chance to spread even further.

Regular healthcare in our community has long been an issue. So many of our Butch and male identified friends and loved ones forgo regular health checks due to being uncomfortable and embarrassed. If you are one of those that avoid it, stop it! Your life is infinitely more valuable than enduring a gynecological exam, colonoscopy or mammogram. We love you and your lives are too precious to lose to something that could have been prevented.

pinkajl, I think that handling it with humor is an important part of the process of dealing with the anxiety of the exam today. Having the procedure will only be a feminizing experience if your Butch allows it to be. Breathe, relax and talk about it both before and after. I am so glad that you are both being proactive and getting it checked immediately. I'll be thinking of you both today.

[pinkajl]

Novellafemme, thank you for your post, as it appears that may be the issue my boi has. I had never heard of that before today. But, after a series of tests today, that's what the radiologist determined.

[Well, actually he said, "You have lumpy breasts." And, when we told our teen sons at supper tonight, the almost 18yo started singing that BEP song My Humps, which was a great tension breaker from this long, long day.]

If you don't mind this question, what do you do about the pain?

To everyone, thank you kindly for all the encouragement and stories. We haven't really talked about the entire experience yet, but we did go out for lunch and did a bit of shopping in the men's department at Macy's.

And now it's time for bed. Good night.

[Little Fish]

Pynk,
I apologize for not getting back to this yesterday.

You asked for a "short list" of what else a lump could be and the good news for you and your Butch is this, I can't give you a "short list" b/c the list is incredibly long--and the majority of things on that list ARE NOT CANCER.

I do not know the nuances of your Butch's situation nor do I need to for the sake of this conversation, I will say this though--breast tissue in women is subject to cyclical hormonal influences and things like number of pregnancies influence women's risk of breast cancer. (To be clear for other readers, studies have indicated that women with no or fewer pregnancies than average have higher rates of breast cancer. Thus lesbians with their presumed fewer/zero pregnancies are at increased risk, as are nuns. I know, an ironic pairing. )
But the reality is, breast tissue isn't the only thing in the breast--muscle, skin, lymph nodes, sweat glands etc--all of these things can occassionally grow up a cyst or some other abnormal collection of cells/tissue--(not cancer per se, just some wierd thingy--yes, my official doctor language is at work here)--which when felt as a lump, scare the hell out of us. I get that.

But again, mammo--and biopsy if necessary. Keep breathing, stay centered. It's just information gathering right now--no need to pitch head long into scariness until we know what we're dealing with, yes? Seem reasonable? And yes I know, easier said....

On a more personal/intimate note, the experience is challenging in itself, even more so for those of us claiming butch or trans. The cold water shock and associated violation of identity you spoke of can be quite painful and difficult to negotiate. I agree with many of the comments aboove, let your Butch lead but also trust your own instincts. Femmes know Butches in a way no other woman does, and you know yours best... Some private re-aasurance and re-affirmation of your Butch's masculinity, in whatever way you two celebrate that, may go a long way in settling the Butch soul.

Keep in touch,
Little Fish

[mariamma]

Originally Posted by Novelafemme

Hi Pink,
Even though I am a femme, I have HUGE amounts of anxiety surrounding someone I don't know putting their hands on my body in intimate places. In my daily practice I am currently working on centering my thoughts (especially ruminative thinking) around my third eye. And if you aren't comfy with that lingo just think of it as a bright light that surrounds you, keeping you safe, holding you out of harm's way. And when I am in a situation that is uncomfortable, I channel all of my energy into that safety zone (or bright light) and trust that a higher power is holding me safe.
!

You are wise Novelafemme. Hormones, neurotransmitters and other trace protein structures are often what will cause or cure dis-ease. It matters how you focus your energy. Good luck in your journeys and trips around the sun.
Be well

[Novelafemme]

Originally Posted by pinkajl

Novellafemme, thank you for your post, as it appears that may be the issue my boi has. I had never heard of that before today. But, after a series of tests today, that's what the radiologist determined.

[Well, actually he said, "You have lumpy breasts." And, when we told our teen sons at supper tonight, the almost 18yo started singing that BEP song My Humps, which was a great tension breaker from this long, long day.]

If you don't mind this question, what do you do about the pain?

To everyone, thank you kindly for all the encouragement and stories. We haven't really talked about the entire experience yet, but we did go out for lunch and did a bit of shopping in the men's department at Macy's.

And now it's time for bed. Good night.

You are very welcome and I am glad I could help.

Yes, the larger lumps can indeed be quite painful. I would notice mine around my period or during hormonal fluctuations and usually wouldn't take anything, but found that the one above my right breast must have been bothering me because I would wake up feeling very tender from rubbing that particular spot. I would try a heating pad or perhaps even ibuprofen.

Another comforting thing to remember is that most cancerous lumps are not painful upon palpitation. They also feel like peas and are very hard, unlike milk ducts.

You medical folks, please correct me if I'm wrong. This was just advice given to me by the radiologist who read my own scan.