Do you *want* people to assume you're a man?

[BullDog]

I just had an incident tonight which kind of made me chuckle, since we are talking about this today. I went into a convenience store today to use the ATM machine and buy a couple of sodas. As I was walking in the door there was a man ahead of me, he looked back, I figured to make sure I had the door. Then he looked back a couple more times and just stared and stared. I think he was trying to figure out which box to put me in, lol.

[Corkey]

Originally Posted by BullDog

I just had an incident tonight which kind of made me chuckle, since we are talking about this today. I went into a convenience store today to use the ATM machine and buy a couple of sodas. As I was walking in the door there was a man ahead of me, he looked back, I figured to make sure I had the door. Then he looked back a couple more times and just stared and stared. I think he was trying to figure out which box to put me in, lol.

Ami stares back at them and will yell Boo! LOL stops them dead in their tracks. They often plow into other things n people, it's hilarious to watch!

[starryeyes]

Originally Posted by Cajun_dee

for *me* i don't like it. i want to be a visible femme with my female butch partner.

I agree. It's a pride thing. I do not want to be seen with a man, but as a femme lesbian with a butch female partner and I will correct if my partner doesn't. Lol :-D

[Parker]

Originally Posted by BullDog

I just had an incident tonight which kind of made me chuckle, since we are talking about this today. I went into a convenience store today to use the ATM machine and buy a couple of sodas. As I was walking in the door there was a man ahead of me, he looked back, I figured to make sure I had the door. Then he looked back a couple more times and just stared and stared. I think he was trying to figure out which box to put me in, lol.

Oh god, the staring .... I sometimes wonder if they realize how rude they are being by staring or if they are so preoccupied with wondering "what" I am that they dont even notice their behavior.

[jac]

Originally Posted by spritzerJ

Not to highjack....

I am grateful that Stoney is so gracious, patient and kind about how people experience who Stoney is. This is not easy nor is it Stoney's job to be so patient with folks. People don't get it quickly when gender presentation isn't binary. I have experienced that my friends want to be respectful and use the right "pronoun" and even understand. And the patience gives them space to formulate their questions. I find questions can lead to understanding.

Specifically related to Stoney... my experience of hym is that hy values people getting to know hym. The pronoun matters not. Hy lets people get to know hym and expresses (looks, says, dresses, etc...) as hymself with out reservation.

Now of course I use hy when referencing Stoney on the planet but that is what we've talked about.

I was sleeping but woke with this post in the forefront of my mind and wanted to elaborate on it a little bit.

I absolutely appreciate that my Spritz sees it as not my "job to be patient with folks." In some ways I totally agree and in other ways, I like to think that I do have a role in being patient and educating others with something they don't understand or are struggling with to accept. I'm a rather complex individual, ya know, and even knowing me personally requires one to understand me wholly.

I can be a rather sarcastic person but, for the most part, it's in play and with those that already know me. Those that can appreciate my sense of humor. Or at least tolerate it. If someone on the street looks at me with a questioning look/stare I don't take offense, I just smile to ease the tension and confussion. If it persists I greet them with hello and go about my business. This is the person they need to see and appreciate... Me, the kind and respectful individual that acknowledges them for being an active member of my day.

I believe that everyone is brought into our day for a reason. I also believe that prior to coming to this Earth plane it was agreed upon that I and you, and you and you (generalized) would have our interaction and it would go in such n' such a way. Lessons will be learned. You, the individual, will be an asshat and I will deal with it... because without this interaction how am to know and appreciate a more loving and respectful interaction if I don't know the opposite. (Guess this is all for another thread.... sorry... rambling)

Anyway, should someone question or ask about who I am and why I am and what, and where, and when and and and... I answer their questions... with compassion. And if I walk another block and it happens again... I answer again and again and again. It truly doesn't bother me for people to question and ask... and nine times out of ten they walk away satisfied with the answers and a smile on their face as I say to them - have a nice day!

It's really just that simple...

[QueenofSmirks]

Originally Posted by Corkey

Ami stares back at them and will yell Boo! LOL stops them dead in their tracks. They often plow into other things n people, it's hilarious to watch!

LMFAO!

.....

[Mrs Arcstriker]

Arcstriker told me about this thread but was afraid to post to it after our last flap...

That said, and I can speak for my husband...he doesn't WANT to pass as male, it just happens. He cannot help who he is anymore than I can help who I am. In the end, we both just want to be judged by our character.

I love that he passes as male, because that is what turns me on...but make no mistake about this...I KNOW exactly who he is and how he was born, and that just makes him sexier to me.

[Bard]

I know what I am I am a woman a strong Butch woman yes I get the stares at time and get called sir and don't get me started on the bathroom issues lol I scare little old ladies... My daughter however does not find it funny she has been known to stamp her little foot and say "that's my MAMA" and the guys I work with get very upset when we are in a stop or dealing with a suspect and they call me sir.. they are protective

[Syr]

I do not consider myself male at all. I am called Sir often in stores etc. funny but not funny story. I was in Montreal at a hospital as my brother was dying. Went to the washroom, yes, the ladies room i startled an elderly lady who was in there. I finish my business, exit washroom to be grabbed by a cop. He speaks french, I speak english. It finally becomes clear to me that he is informing me he is arresting me for being in the ladies washroom. I'm thinking this is a bad fuckin' joke. I guess I was under a little stress because I snapped. I told him he was a f??? Idiot and promptly pulled my shirt off to expose proof that I was a woman. Asshats!

[Bleu]

Originally Posted by stone4play

I was sleeping but woke with this post in the forefront of my mind and wanted to elaborate on it a little bit.

I absolutely appreciate that my Spritz sees it as not my "job to be patient with folks." In some ways I totally agree and in other ways, I like to think that I do have a role in being patient and educating others with something they don't understand or are struggling with to accept. I'm a rather complex individual, ya know, and even knowing me personally requires one to understand me wholly.

I can be a rather sarcastic person but, for the most part, it's in play and with those that already know me. Those that can appreciate my sense of humor. Or at least tolerate it. If someone on the street looks at me with a questioning look/stare I don't take offense, I just smile to ease the tension and confussion. If it persists I greet them with hello and go about my business. This is the person they need to see and appreciate... Me, the kind and respectful individual that acknowledges them for being an active member of my day.

I believe that everyone is brought into our day for a reason. I also believe that prior to coming to this Earth plane it was agreed upon that I and you, and you and you (generalized) would have our interaction and it would go in such n' such a way. Lessons will be learned. You, the individual, will be an asshat and I will deal with it... because without this interaction how am to know and appreciate a more loving and respectful interaction if I don't know the opposite. (Guess this is all for another thread.... sorry... rambling)

Anyway, should someone question or ask about who I am and why I am and what, and where, and when and and and... I answer their questions... with compassion. And if I walk another block and it happens again... I answer again and again and again. It truly doesn't bother me for people to question and ask... and nine times out of ten they walk away satisfied with the answers and a smile on their face as I say to them - have a nice day!

It's really just that simple...

Thank you, that was truly beautiful to read.

[BullDog]

There are a lot of great posts, awesome conversation!

Like Parker said, one of the main reasons many butch women do want to be seen as women is because when we are not, our type of woman is invisible. There are many ways to be woman and we would like that to be seen. You can't control how someone is going to perceive you and that's ok, but we stretch the definition of what woman is and can be. Many of us also do want to be treated as women because that is what we are.

I don't really have the issue of passing as male and I am happy about that. If people do think I am, it is usually just a temporary mistake. If someone calls me sir at the grocery store or something I don't tend to correct them, I just let it slide.

Sometimes kids will ask me if I am a boy or girl (they tend to use that rather than man or woman). I will smile and say girl. You see them thinking and that makes me smile. They don't really care either way, they are just curious. If they do call me he and we are friends, I don't correct them. They find their own way just fine.

I do agree with Kelt that I would prefer our society wasn't so rigidly gendered. Why does it matter if a store clerk says ma'am or sir? Why do we have to have an F or M on our driver's license? Why do people get so extremely uncomfortable if they can't tell right away if someone is female or male?

[Rockinonahigh]

No I do not wish to be thought of as a man,i'm just being me and wearing clothes that I feel best in.Yes i'm a masculine butch woman that often gets called sir a lot,no it dosent bother me because often people take a second look then I get sorry mam with a red face,or they sort of stutter with confuson.Going to the bathroom is a trick cause I often get the look like i'm in the wrong place..I just go on a take care of buisness,wash my hands then out the door I go.
Now haveing said this I will say in certain circles if I had said this out loud or on the site I would have been blasted then called out for it.Admitting you were a butch woman and not wanting to be seen as a male wouold have been sacriligouos(sp?.sorry)

[Words]

Originally Posted by starryeyes

I agree. It's a pride thing. I do not want to be seen with a man, but as a femme lesbian with a butch female partner and I will correct if my partner doesn't. Lol :-D

I don't necessarily like being invisible as a queer either.

Thing is, when it comes to pride, I have so much pride in my butch and the way in which Hy carries Hymself/responds regardless of how people perceive Hym that that kind of outweighs the fact that by referring to Hym using masculine pronouns, they are somehow erasing my identity.

Make sense?

Words

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by Words

I don't necessarily like being invisible as a queer either.

Thing is, when it comes to pride, I have so much pride in my butch and the way in which Hy carries Hymself/responds regardless of how people perceive Hym that that kind of outweighs the fact that by referring to Hym using masculine pronouns, they are somehow erasing my identity.

Make sense?

Words

Thank you!!!

Femme is not defined by who I am fucking, it's my Gender!

[Daywalker]

When I realized that the reaction by a portion our own Community to
folks who 'pass' is to immediately default to male pronouns, I had to
examine myself at that time. Why? Because I was one of those in
the 'portion'. Fast forward a few years and see me crediting all of
you for helping me see why that was not so groovy and now
I use that to educate others.


A reply I gave to someone who continued to default to he/hy for Butches:


"...but why do you call them he/hy to start of with. By doing this,
you're taking away from them not only their visibility as Butch
Women, but you're also removing the beauty of the
fact that they are women who love other women."

[starryeyes]

Originally Posted by Words

I don't necessarily like being invisible as a queer either.

Thing is, when it comes to pride, I have so much pride in my butch and the way in which Hy carries Hymself/responds regardless of how people perceive Hym that that kind of outweighs the fact that by referring to Hym using masculine pronouns, they are somehow erasing my identity.

Make sense?

Words

I totally get your point, and totally respect it! We are all different here with totally different perspectives, and that is what I love about this place.

Justin and I both totally label ourselves as 100% lesbian women, so the accidental "male" label doesn't sit well with us. We are women, and we are proud, and they will be corrected either by Justin or I, whichever is convenient. It has nothing to do with me not wanting to be "invisible", or having an erased identity. It is a pride thing. I am proud to be a femme lesbian on my female identified butches arm, and you will see me as one because it is who I am. You will see her as a butch because that is what she is and you will see us as a couple because we are fucking beautiful! <3

Hugs.

[Jaques]

As someone who has gone through the mill for a lifetime before transitioning, I spent a lot of my childhood wanting people to assume I was male when I looked very feminine. Now I look male and ive come through most of the "stuff" I can now concentrate more on living the kind of life where others views on my gender arent relevant

[NorCalStud]

I am not aware of a desire to be seen as a man. And I definately do not have a desire to be seen as a woman. I dont mind it but Im not burnin up to present an identity. I feel better being called "sir" than "mam". I can truthfully say mam and lady make me cringe like Ive been hit. Im being honest.

I like being seen as butch. I do not like the breasts and yet there is a part of me that wants them there doin what they do which is to say Im this person in this body and Im okay. I do like being seen as who I am for me and for the young butches coming up. Ive said it before..tho.....we are skeletons and spirit...that is how we are walking around. The other stuff is stuff

[Stronghealer]

I do not want anyone assuming anything about me-ask.
We are more intricate then our outsides.

[BullDog]

I don't like being called ma'am or lady either. My partner calls me Sir. I would prefer she would be the only one that does.