The Femme Continuum: The "Highs" and "Lows" of Visibility

[betenoire]

Yeah, settling is something that debris does.

[SuperFemme]

How about the look of amazement when you put together an Ikea cabinet or use a power tool on something? Like it's a big huge deal...OR a look of horror if you announce you do not like shopping. Or shoes.

[Tommi]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

How about the look of amazement when you put together an Ikea cabinet or use a power tool on something? Like it's a big huge deal...OR a look of horror if you announce you do not like shopping. Or shoes.

Or when she lifts the suitcase out of the trunk wehn your back is turned, like it was heavy as a newspaper

sneaking in under the cover of Pacific Daylight TIme

[blush]

One of the most offensive things for me(and it sounds like many other femmes in here too) is the long definitions of "what a femme is." Usually it's followed by the assessment of me as a femme.

[apretty]

i've experienced more attempts at perpetuating femme-hierarchy when getting to know less attractive and stupid butches.

my experience. me. only.

and to be totally fair--i'm SURE that their attractiveness fell from possibly average to *no way* once they began to offer their unsolicited and absurd insights on high-femme (which i don't think exists and they were sure entailed a demure smile, heels and stockings 24/7), relationships (i'm not a so-called 'natural' submissive because they were ill equipped for someone such as myself), and i could go on...

so, perhaps it's that i find intelligence *highly* sexy that i can't quite separate my disgust of the thoughts from the one doing the thinking--but i have found myself in these situations a few times and it's always presented to me in a way to try to knock me down to their size, like 'i'll fuck you but just so's you know...' trying so hard to mask their insecurity at sitting across from me:

oh, you're very attractive, if a little young... and perhaps not what i normally go for (as fucking IF) and i will do you, though you clearly lack real *experience* so you'd better hold on to your seat, little miss--and normally, i date high femmes--oh what are those? those are femmes who wear nylons and high heels, i have an ex who wore heels every day.... (wistful pause) and skirts--you know those tight skirts? ...yes, that's it--pencil skirt.... (implying that my totally cute outfit isn't drag-enough for the pizza place/diner/hole in the wall) wait. where are you going?"

see? not attractive + stupid = not getting any.

[apretty]

on the other hand--

i ADORE doing the 'femme' stuff with another femme--i don't feel competitive, i feel supported and love to give support.

i am grateful that i have a local friend who i met (through mack!), and we can discuss the real stuff as well as get absolutely stupid in 'bath and body' saying, 'oh HONEYYYY look at this new DOUCHE!!!' really loud. (really, poor tiger!)

and about the butch that creates this femme-continuum/perpetuates the myth of high vs. low femme (can i be teenage slut femme??) --i've never felt so ERASED. and not accidentally, not the way society sees everything in M or f... more so an attempt to deliberately erase my *femme* entirely.

[UofMfan]

Originally Posted by apretty

i've experienced more attempts at perpetuating femme-hierarchy when getting to know less attractive and stupid butches.

my experience. me. only.

and to be totally fair--i'm SURE that their attractiveness fell from possibly average to *no way* once they began to offer their unsolicited and absurd insights on high-femme (which i don't think exists and they were sure entailed a demure smile, heels and stockings 24/7), relationships (i'm not a so-called 'natural' submissive because they were ill equipped for someone such as myself), and i could go on...

so, perhaps it's that i find intelligence *highly* sexy that i can't quite separate my disgust of the thoughts from the one doing the thinking--but i have found myself in these situations a few times and it's always presented to me in a way to try to knock me down to their size, like 'i'll fuck you but just so's you know...' trying so hard to mask their insecurity at sitting across from me:

oh, you're very attractive, if a little young... and perhaps not what i normally go for (as fucking IF) and i will do you, though you clearly lack real *experience* so you'd better hold on to your seat, little miss--and normally, i date high femmes--oh what are those? those are femmes who wear nylons and high heels, i have an ex who wore heels every day.... (wistful pause) and skirts--you know those tight skirts? ...yes, that's it--pencil skirt.... (implying that my totally cute outfit isn't drag-enough for the pizza place/diner/hole in the wall) wait. where are you going?"

see? not attractive + stupid = not getting any.

Do you have to embarrass me in public like this?

[apretty]

Originally Posted by UofMfan

Do you have to embarrass me in public like this?

ha! i seriously doubt that's your *first date* style! nice try!!

[Emmy]

In my mind, when someone says 'high femme', for some reason, i think of a glamorous woman from an old movie, from the 40's maybe, wearing satin and complicated hosiery, making smart and quippy conversation. Maybe with finger waves in her hair? It's a nice image. Sorry, I know this is a bit of a random musing on the topic...

[SassyLeo]

Originally Posted by apretty

i've experienced more attempts at perpetuating femme-hierarchy when getting to know less attractive and stupid butches.

my experience. me. only.

and to be totally fair--i'm SURE that their attractiveness fell from possibly average to *no way* once they began to offer their unsolicited and absurd insights on high-femme (which i don't think exists and they were sure entailed a demure smile, heels and stockings 24/7), relationships (i'm not a so-called 'natural' submissive because they were ill equipped for someone such as myself), and i could go on...

so, perhaps it's that i find intelligence *highly* sexy that i can't quite separate my disgust of the thoughts from the one doing the thinking--but i have found myself in these situations a few times and it's always presented to me in a way to try to knock me down to their size, like 'i'll fuck you but just so's you know...' trying so hard to mask their insecurity at sitting across from me:

oh, you're very attractive, if a little young... and perhaps not what i normally go for (as fucking IF) and i will do you, though you clearly lack real *experience* so you'd better hold on to your seat, little miss--and normally, i date high femmes--oh what are those? those are femmes who wear nylons and high heels, i have an ex who wore heels every day.... (wistful pause) and skirts--you know those tight skirts? ...yes, that's it--pencil skirt.... (implying that my totally cute outfit isn't drag-enough for the pizza place/diner/hole in the wall) wait. where are you going?"

see? not attractive + stupid = not getting any.

What do you mean you don't do "heels and stockings 24/7"???

[The_Lady_Snow]

I love to participate in cunnulingus, I do, I have heard from my peers this makes me not so femme..

I say the hell with that..

oh and yes I said cunnulingus and no I have no gender preference when it comes down to it..

<cleaning gear on in case

[Apocalipstic]

When I think of High Femme, it involves Mary Jane and Cookies.

I don't even know ANY women who wear nylons and pencil skirts 24/7. Zero.
It cracks me up when someone says they are looking for a Femme like that, cause that search is going to lead to dissapointing results!

[ravfem]

Originally Posted by apocalipstic

When I think of High Femme, it involves Mary Jane and Cookies.

I don't even know ANY women who wear nylons and pencil skirts 24/7. Zero.
It cracks me up when someone says they are looking for a Femme like that, cause that search is going to lead to dissapointing results!

Wait...i wear mary janes and like cookies....omg, i'm a high femme?! Who knew??

[Martina]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

I love to participate in cunnulingus, I do, I have heard from my peers this makes me not so femme..

I say the hell with that..

oh and yes I said cunnulingus and no I have no gender preference when it comes down to it..

<cleaning gear on in case

Thinking of those femmes missing out. Unless this is a true sexual boundary (one just can't imagine doing it), it's amazing to me that anyone would give up all this good stuff up for no better reason than it's not femme????

How sadly self-punishing of someone not to try out something to see if they really like it, but to obey some internalized sexist rule. Boy, that's a case where our gender categories sure aren't liberating. What's next, femme purdah?

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

I love to participate in cunnulingus, I do, I have heard from my peers this makes me not so femme..

I say the hell with that..

oh and yes I said cunnulingus and no I have no gender preference when it comes down to it..

<cleaning gear on in case

Me too!

I think it hurts me the most when the shock & awe comes from other Femmes. I tend to keep quiet during gatherings when the convo turns to sexual stuff. Which is kind of sad.

[Apocalipstic]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

Me too!

I think it hurts me the most when the shock & awe comes from other Femmes. I tend to keep quiet during gatherings when the convo turns to sexual stuff. Which is kind of sad.

Me too and Mee too.

Exept sometimes I just like to spurt out exactly what all I like to do in bed and watch the green foam ooze from their ears.

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by apocalipstic

Me too and Mee too.

Exept sometimes I just like to spurt out exactly what all I like to do in bed and watch the green foam ooze from their ears.

This made me crack up. Green foam even. teehee

[Nat]

Originally Posted by apocalipstic

Me too and Mee too.

Exept sometimes I just like to spurt out exactly what all I like to do in bed and watch the green foam ooze from their ears.

I don't know anyone in person who has the green foam reaction

I do remember my talking to a close straight woman friend about my first experience strapping.

I was like, "OMG I cannot believe I didn't do that sooner, and I was so stressed about it, and then it was so natural and I had access to this part of myself I never knew existed and to a part of her that was so unbelievable and I just felt so *given to* in that moment."

My friend just said she never imagined that the f*cker would feel *given to* and that surprised her. She said as a f*ckee-only, she feels like she's stealing all the energy.

I don't really hang out with prudes though - maybe green foam is a biproduct of prudery? I talked to a femme friend just the other day about it, and even though her preferences don't run the same gamut mine do, she was charming and funny and insightful and fully accepting when the conversation turned for a few moments to sex.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Martina I want to address what you said I just need time to chew on it for a bit.. The reason being is there are folks out there who do not participate in this particular sexual activity due to boundaries their partners have set and such.



On another note..

Being a femme who enjoys having her cock sucked, has brought the *value* of my femme into questions by both gender spectrums....

[Emmy]

This is a great discussion. I'm relatively newly out- about 3 years- so perhaps my perspective just stems from inexperience. I can honestly say, though, that I've never personally been made to feel inferior, or "not femme enough" by another femme, not once. The femmes I've met have been unfailingly gracious, welcoming me to the club

Online, I suppose I have seen a fair amount 'ewwww'-ing going on about any sort of sexual interest, on the part of either butches or femmes, that doesn't quite adhere to gender stereotypes. Perhaps, though, this is improving over time? I'm not certain of it, but I get the sense that maybe this was a bit more common a few years ago than it is today, thank goodness- probably thanks to folks' speaking up about it in threads like this.