A request

[SassyLeo]

Originally Posted by Beau

For the record, and I don't believe I'm alone in this, I'm still concerned with being seen and respected as a woman, period. I had to reign myself in when I read Dapper's opening post because I'm so very tired of all of the gender identity parsing of butch, but then I realized I wasn't being fair to those who don't feel acknowledged -- for whatever reason. See, this isn't a foreign country with its own language and customs, it's a world we build for ourselves on here. And that changes daily. Scary, but true.
So, Dapper, I will do my absolute best to only use "woman" as it pertains to butch as gender and not sex. For me, it's one and the same, but for some that is not true. I don't have to understand it to give those who feel differently the respect I wish to have afforded myself.

I have to admit that sometimes I just feel confused/frustrated/tired when it comes to all the labels and identities. OF COURSE, I respect everyone and their choice of label and identity... I do. And I do love to read/learn/process/discuss it. I love the debate. And I want folks to feel respected and called their chosen name (his/him/hys/hym/hyr/her/hir...)

AND

Sometimes for me I get to this place in my head where I think, in the straight world, we get so labeled and stereotyped...do we really want to continue down that path in the Queer world? Are we just separating more?

AND

Then I think, well people are going to label us anyway (human nature?), outside and inside the community, so might as well pick something you like!

[adorable]

Here is what I have learned:

Some people see Butch as their gender in the same way that some people see Femme as their gender.

[Waldo]

Originally Posted by SassyLeo

I do love to read/learn/process/discuss

I can vouch for that.

My read? It's complicated.

Let's not assume what people are talking about. Let's inquire. "when you say X do you mean Y?" goes a long way toward more understanding on both sides of a discussion. Unless someone is being clearly dismissive and down right ignorant when using labels I choose to believe they mean well and they have a different take on the issue than I do.

Me? I am a woman. I don't separate woman from female. I know others do. Cool. Respected. I'm not attempting to disrespect when I say something about butch women. I'm just lucky to get pronouns right these days. Don't ask me to keep track of whether you separate gender for sex and what you refer to your naughty bits as. Please and thank you.

[Bit]

Originally Posted by Waldo

Let's not assume what people are talking about. Let's inquire. "when you say X do you mean Y?" goes a long way toward more understanding on both sides of a discussion. Unless someone is being clearly dismissive and down right ignorant when using labels I choose to believe they mean well and they have a different take on the issue than I do.

YES. This. I believe that if we could routinely do this: "I choose to believe they mean well and they have a different take on the issue than I do." then the conflicts would stop.

[SassyLeo]

Originally Posted by Waldo

I can vouch for that.

My read? It's complicated.

Let's not assume what people are talking about. Let's inquire. "when you say X do you mean Y?" goes a long way toward more understanding on both sides of a discussion. Unless someone is being clearly dismissive and down right ignorant when using labels I choose to believe they mean well and they have a different take on the issue than I do.

Me? I am a woman. I don't separate woman from female. I know others do. Cool. Respected. I'm not attempting to disrespect when I say something about butch women. I'm just lucky to get pronouns right these days. Don't ask me to keep track of whether you separate gender for sex and what you refer to your naughty bits as. Please and thank you.

I think there is an expectation that we do "keep track". I'm not saying it is right or wrong, but there have been comments in other threads about people not using the right pronoun and it is perceived as being disrespectful because one cannot remember which the person prefers.

[ruthie14]

Can't say I'm not confused....but I'm trying. If I ever make the mistake, please gently tell me. I respect everyone here and I wouldn't want to offend anyone. I'll continue to read and learn. Thanks Dapper

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by ruthie14

Can't say I'm not confused....but I'm trying. If I ever make the mistake, please gently tell me. I respect everyone here and I wouldn't want to offend anyone. I'll continue to read and learn. Thanks Dapper

No worries, Ruthie.