OFOS Butches & Femmes

[CherylNYC]

Originally Posted by girl_dee

...What OFOS means to me is not being helped with my chair, or standing when i exit and enter the room, but simple manners. For me, sometimes those things cause me to feel like the *weaker* of the BF dynamic. If i get to the door first, i hold it open regardless of who is coming in. i can put myself in a car, i don’t like being tucked in there. i like when my butch asks me what i would like for dinner and there is soft conversation before the meal. i like to know my butch is present with me during that time...

I may not be anyone else's idea of OFOS, but I won't have much erotic friction with my date unless she radiates that special kind of undefinable masculine energy that I feel can only be described as 'Old School Butch'. She may or may not pull out my chair. She may or may not walk on the street side, (protective side), when we're out together. There are so many traditionally masculine actions an old school butch may or may not take, and none of those actions qualifies or disqualifies her in my book. Because, frankly, there is no book. I think it varies from person to person, from relationship to relationship, and from situation to situation. As has been written above, simple manners are always expected. Crass actions are always crass. That has less to do with being OFOS than being raised well, or raising ones self well.

Unless previous arrangements have been made, I always pay my own way on a date. Always have, always will. I've dated butch women who were accustomed to dating femmes who would never dream of opening up their purse when the check arrived. I always let them know that it's their job to let me know if they're asking me out on a special date where they're going to pay for everything. Then I can agree to or decline the offer.

My most recent gf was not particularly comfortable with my expectations around paying, and she created all sorts of friction by disrespecting my boundaries. It's rude to violate agreed upon boundaries, and those violations definitely contributed a bit to the demise of that relationship. Other 'traditional' things my ex gf did worked really well for me, though. It's a lot harder to drive in 4" stilettos than in masculine footwear. Not to mention that it's way too easy to damage those pretty high heels while driving in NYC traffic. I was happy that she wanted to do the driving when we were dressed up to go out. (This from a woman frequently documented riding a large displacement motorcycle in NYC Pride Parades while wearing 4" stilettos!). It's not that I let her drive because she's the butch and that's the OFOS way. And it certainly wasn't because she was better at it. It was because she was just as invested in protecting my shoes as I was. My food allergies embarrass me, but I must be very careful when ordering at a restaurant. At a certain point when it looks like I may not be able to find something on the menu that won't make me very sick, I'm ready to give up. I just hate calling attention to myself that way. It worked quite well for me to discuss menu options with my ex and then let her order. She enjoyed ordering for us, and I didn't have to face the possibility of friction with a waiter who might not understand the gravity of my food requirements. I enjoyed being protected that way, too, but I never wanted anyone to order for me before my food allergies became so numerous and severe. I recently went out with a group of friends which included the above-mentioned ex. She ordered for me. It made me giggle a bit, but I was fine with it.

I feel that a reflexive adherence to mid 20th century norms for male-female interactions is a recipe for me to feel disempowered, but choosing the rituals that feel right for myself and right for the dynamic between myself and the butch I'm dating is quite empowering. Once again, we choose which rituals work for us in our individual situations. I could never adhere to rigid standards regarding who does what based entirely on gender identity. Does that disqualify me from the OFOS club?

[girl_dee]

Originally Posted by CherylNYC

I feel that a reflexive adherence to mid 20th century norms for male-female interactions is a recipe for me to feel disempowered, but choosing the rituals that feel right for myself and right for the dynamic between myself and the butch I'm dating is quite empowering. Once again, we choose which rituals work for us in our individual situations. I could never adhere to rigid standards regarding who does what based entirely on gender identity. Does that disqualify me from the OFOS club?

Hell no you are not disqualified!! You are a card carrying member!

In my world my butch is also my Dominant, so we have a whole different set of *rules* if you will, from many folks. We define them.

Some people cannot understand how empowering being in my position is, but its incredible. Finding the balance for us, is quite erotic.

i will never adhere to a set of what i feel is antiquated expectations set forth by people who i do not answer to.

[homoe]

BUMP..............

[Kätzchen]

We both met each other on a hot August afternoon, after a long bike ride -- sitting at an open-air bar out in the countryside.

He treats me with incredible respect and deference. I'm the same with him.

Our values match and we both are introverted yet because I work in an intense customer service role, he would say I'm more extroverted, but he has come to see that I require more space to process everyday life, etc.

One time, I said to him that if he ever wanted to leave me that I'd still love him and treat him well. He said "You're not getting rid of me anytime soon". Then, on that note, we heard Cigarettes After Sex's song Apocalypse lilt through the air and he leaned over and whispered in my ear that he would haunt me the rest of my life.


Happy Holiday's,

[Stone-Butch]

https://youtu.be/2Q7IzwUa_kI?si=CxJ9YIxtOBn6yJbx









This Butch speaks for me any time. She has written so many things besides this but I agree with her speaches . Look up Ivan Coyote and see the wonderful work she has done in so many ways. Enjoy.