Stone--Personal Definitions

[Oneida]

Originally Posted by Metropolis

I sure as hell aren't going to get all upset over it, nor would I want someone all overly worried about it, I'm not breakable... lol.

You are consistently one of my favorite posters (not posers) here. :-) Have a great weekend!

[Stoney]

Okay heres some questions I would like to throw out there and hear some feed back.

If a woman is in a relationship with a stone butch , is she now a stone femme?
Does that change an identity if the person you are with is stone? or would you simply identify as femme?
If you would be changing your style of sex out of respect for the person you were with or is it a lifestyle you would continue to pursue even in a different relationship? also would a woman who identifies as a stone femme whether in a relationship or not only look to date a stone butch?

I know for me, being Stone isnt an issue if it was a casual thing but what about a different senerio, you fall in love with a person who wasnt stone before, or maybe you fall in love with a stone butch and you arent....would you always feel like something was missing? Would you miss making love to a woman? I always wondered if my partner was feeling restricted from something she may desire to do with me or to me , just like I do her.

stone butches...
Has being stone been greeted with the wide eye " your Kiddings" like I described in a previous post in this thread?

Do you tell people you are stone, I mean in the general community, not Butch-femme? is it something personal you only share with your partner?...
Honestly I dont just put that out there. It isnt a common knowlege thing among my Friends, except here, online. I only cross that bridge if I come to it I guess.

I know in my group of lesbian / gay friends although there is the stereotypical look of butch-femme dynamics in a few of the couples I know , But none as "obviously Defined as my own. In fact many use the word "butch" almost negatively.

as in " see that girl over there, God she's so Butch..eewwww.".....yeah well, as in yuck.


But most of those girls, I am 15yrs their senior...... , I dont know. " they call me old school"........
Maybe .. Im just old ..lol

but anyways.. thats probably enough to get a convo going I hope. thanks all!

Much Peace, Stoney

[Blade]

I'm in Orange

Originally Posted by Stoney

stone butches...
Has being stone been greeted with the wide eye " your Kiddings" like I described in a previous post in this thread? No not at all, people I've talked to online and met in person are respectful of it if it is brought up in conversation. Sometimes people have questions about why or how or whatever.

Do you tell people you are stone, I mean in the general community, not Butch-femme? is it something personal you only share with your partner?...Well I think it is a personal topic, not something I'd just be telling someone out of the blue oh and by the way I'm stone. I think unless they were of our community they'd look at me like I had 3 heads, wondering wtf is stone.
Honestly I dont just put that out there. It isnt a common knowlege thing among my Friends, except here, online. I only cross that bridge if I come to it I guess.

I know in my group of lesbian / gay friends although there is the stereotypical look of butch-femme dynamics in a few of the couples I know , But none as "obviously Defined as my own. In fact many use the word "butch" almost negatively.
Until I came online I never liked or used the word butch. Actually the first time I heard the word, I was wearing a uniform at work and my boss said that color on you makes you look to butch. To which I replied who the hell is Butch, Butch who. LOL

as in " see that girl over there, God she's so Butch..eewwww.".....yeah well, as in yuck.


But most of those girls, I am 15yrs their senior...... , I dont know. " they call me old school"........
Maybe .. Im just old ..lol

but anyways.. thats probably enough to get a convo going I hope. thanks all!

Much Peace, Stoney

[Canela]

Very interesting thread...enjoying it very much...

[Gemme]

If a woman is in a relationship with a stone butch , is she now a stone femme?

Does that change an identity if the person you are with is stone? or would you simply identify as femme?


A situation doesn't change one's identity. Neither does one's partner. That person does. Or doesn't.

If you date someone of another religion, does that make you an automatic convert?

True story: I met and fell in like with a lovely Transguy. We got along rather well until it was made quite clear to me that, in order to be with him, I would have to be straight.

Um, no.

So, many discussions, fights, and tears later I left the relationship. Both of us were disappointed in the other and that's a sad state to be in simply because he needed a straight girl and I needed a queer guy. Two dissimilar objects trying to fit into the same square. A square that neither of us fit.

My identity is hard won. I have fought everyone...lovers, ex husbands, strangers and myself...for this identity. If anyone wants it, they are going to have to pry it from my cold, dead hands.

[Stoney]

wow, nice post thank you Gemme, for an honest direct answer.

I enjoy your posts.

Stoney.

[Bit]

Stoney's questions: If a woman is in a relationship with a stone butch , is she now a stone femme?

Cath: Not as far as I'm concerned, and I'll tell you why. For me personally and according to the other Stonefemmes who have shared with me, this identity is our own. It's not granted to us by the Stone Butch, nor is it contagious--they cannot somehow magically turn us into Stonefemmes.

This identity is consistent within us no matter whom we might choose as a partner. Many of us have had the experience of being with non-Stone Butches whom we loved very deeply and feeling just awful BECAUSE we weren't comfortable with them sexually; I myself thought I was somehow a badly defective Lesbian because I didn't enjoy "doing as was done to me," yanno? Discovering Stone Butches was a huge "coming home" after years of that kind of relationship, and believe me, the relief was so huge that I cried for weeks.

Stoney: Does that change an identity if the person you are with is stone? or would you simply identify as femme?

Cath: I think nothing external, including a partner, can change an internal identity. I will say that it might appear that way to onlookers, if the Femme is exploring her own identity and experiments with the Stonefemme label to see if it fits her, but to me that is still an internal identity exploration. I can tell you that I changed very drastically over the course of a couple years, and while the things Stone Butches and Transmen were saying served as a catalyst for the changes, it was still my own internal process. Actually, other Femmes of all kinds were a bigger influence in my identity exploration.

Stoney: If you would be changing your style of sex out of respect for the person you were with or is it a lifestyle you would continue to pursue even in a different relationship? also would a woman who identifies as a stone femme whether in a relationship or not only look to date a stone butch?

Cath: I prefer to date Stone Butches and Transmen, but I'm not limited to them. I've fallen in love with many a Butch who was neither. Gryph is neither.

Stoney: I know for me, being Stone isnt an issue if it was a casual thing but what about a different senerio, you fall in love with a person who wasnt stone before,

Cath: I admit that I was concerned! It hadn't gone so well in the past, falling in love with non-Stone Butches, and I wondered if I would be able to deal with it. What made me willing to try was that Gryph and I were completely compatible in the rest of our lives (well. Except for his infamous "butchelor pad" non-cleaning tendencies, that is), and I trusted him to be respectful of my boundaries as a Stonefemme. He is respectful of them, he does understand, and we've never had a problem.

Stoney: or maybe you fall in love with a stone butch and you arent....would you always feel like something was missing? Would you miss making love to a woman? I always wondered if my partner was feeling restricted from something she may desire to do with me or to me , just like I do her.

Cath: I've had a hard time shaking off the guilt because I wasn't "performing" the way some of my past lovers expected me to, but miss it? No. It's not my thing. I don't know any Stonefemmes who say they miss it, either... most of my friends over the years have said they, like me, are relieved to be able to concentrate on having sex that feels natural to us in relationships that work for us with partners we adore. I've heard that so consistently that I think maybe they feel that relief at finding the right kind of relationship in the same huge way I do.

Thank you for the questions!

[Stoney]

Bit!

thank you so much for all your answers. I honestly have been wondering about these things for years, what you said , I have heard my partner say," it takes the pressure off, it allows her to be comfortable, because we are so compatible in that way". I was hoping my questions came off genuine because they were. I never really understoond stone femme either, till recently , I am embarrassed to admit I was wrong for a long time on that,

It has helped me to see it and understand it , we are really so much alike arent we ?

Thank you so much Bit , Love all your posts too!


Peace Stoney

[CherylNYC]

I love Bit's line about stone not being a contagious disease. Ha! I am who I am. My partners are who they are.

As for telling my friends that I'm a stonefemme, its kinda personal. Except, that is, for this website. Online communities are a funny thing. Only a very few of my close friends know this fundamental thing about me, but I wrote it loud and clear for anyone to see on my profile. Hmmm. One of the reasons I endured the incredibly irritating heteronormative posturing on the other site was that it was the only place I could interact with anyone who was like me. One of the reasons I stay active in this online community is because I find my ID so utterly isolating.

While most people have some idea what it means to be a stone butch, even my friends in the sex-positive kink community have NO IDEA what it means to be a stonefemme. When I tell them their eyes open wide in disbelief. I can't blame them. I had no idea what it meant until a few years ago. To be honest, if I were not a stonefemme I would very likely have trouble getting my head around the idea. There's still a part of me that says, "stonefemme? WTF?". I still struggle with feelings of inadequacy.

My late gf was nearly stone. She let me know in every way that we had the best sex she had in her life. That helped. A lot. My partner previous to her was not stone. She wanted me to reciprocate and neither of us knew why I just couldn't do what we both expected me to want to do in bed. She felt rejected, and I felt like a failure whenever it came up. Unfortunately she died suddenly in an accident in '03. Even though it's irrational, I still feel guilty that she died without getting what she wanted from me. We communicated a lot after she passed. I feel like she knows that I really did the best I could, and that I was only guilty of ignorance, but I soooo wish that she were alive to have that conversation with me.

I'm a BDSM masochist and a sexual bottom. Both my late partner and my late gf were big, bad- ass butch tops. That top/bottom dynamic can foster a stone sexual relationship even with couples who don't ID as stone. You know- aggressor/receiver, pitcher/catcher, dominant/submissive. That's how my late partner and I managed to have sizzling, screaming, mind-blowing sex even though we had unresolved issues around reciprocity. We both chalked it up to our sexual D/s dynamic.

It's all knotted up with guilt and mortality for me, but right now I'm just not secure enough in my stone ID to risk a romance with a butch who is not stone. I might be able to do it later in my life, but not now. I think those who can do it must have awesome communication skills. Maybe I'll get there one day.

[Stoney]

cheryl, thank you so much,

great perspective, great post,

Im learning alot .

Peace Stoney

[Toughy]

I'm a BDSM masochist and a sexual bottom. Both my late partner and my late gf were big, bad- ass butch tops. That top/bottom dynamic can foster a stone sexual relationship even with couples who don't ID as stone. You know- aggressor/receiver, pitcher/catcher, dominant/submissive. That's how my late partner and I managed to have sizzling, screaming, mind-blowing sex even though we had unresolved issues around reciprocity. We both chalked it up to our sexual D/s dynamic.

I wanted to piggyback on this idea.....

I am not sexually stone, except when I am.

When I am in Top kink space, I am about as sexually stone as you could possibly be. I am totally cock-identified and my clit is not a cock ever. I don't have a clit or breasts.

Outside of Top kink space, it is about the energy between the femme in my (her) bed and me. It's very fluid (from stone to all access) and very satisfying.

I also want to point out there are Femmes who are sexually stone.......meaning they don't want penetration or breasts played with or clit sucked. They get their pleasure from fucking/making love to the butch in their bed.

I also think everyone has sexual boundaries that must be respected. Sexual boundaries is not a phenomenon of Stone id.

[cinderella]

Wow, Bit, what a sigh of relief when I read your post!! You are describing my experience to a T. Thank you for posting this. You have reaffirmed any hint of vestigial doubt I may still have had regarding this issue. I couldn't have said it any better - very well expressed.


[QUOTE=Bit;122860]
[SIZE=3][COLOR=teal]
*snip*
This identity is consistent within us no matter whom we might choose as a partner. Many of us have had the experience of being with non-Stone Butches whom we loved very deeply and feeling just awful BECAUSE we weren't comfortable with them sexually; I myself thought I was somehow a badly defective Lesbian because I didn't enjoy "doing as was done to me," yanno? Discovering Stone Butches was a huge "coming home" after years of that kind of relationship, and believe me, the relief was so huge that I cried for weeks.

[dark_crystal]

my fetlife profile says the following:

The orientation and identity i identify strongest with is Stone Femme:
*Definition from wikipedia via the old butch-femme.com: Stone femme is a lesbian identity whose name was patterned after the more widely-known term stone butch. Identification with the term is not necessarily dependent upon the stone femme's physical appearance or gender expression, or upon the identity of the stone femme's partner.

Stone femme has many different meanings:

- a femme who is the bottom in sexual interactions
- a femme who is attracted to or partnered with masculine or stone butches; who does not wish to sexually touch her partners' genitals, or whose partner does not wish to have her/hys/his biological genitals touched
- an exceptionally femme femme
- a femme top who does not wish to be genitally stimulated or touched by her partner during sex

Some people use the term 'stone femme' to describe their identity in regards to their sexual identity or gender identity, their boundaries regarding the expression of either, or their sexual boundaries. Some stone femmes identify as queer, as dykes, and/or as lesbians. Others do not identify as lesbians due to the disconnect between the political and sexual connotations of the word and the reality of their experiences.*

This identity does have certain nuances for me- i predict many curious-about-me profile visitors will read "a femme (...) who does not wish to sexually touch her partners' genitals" with alarm- herein lies the nuance:

sexually my default mode is very passive and i could be mistaken for a “pillow princess.” NOT SO! i enjoy touching and tasting my partners in any way or amount they desire! It is just that, because i am extremely passive and submissive, i must be ordered specifically to do so. Once i am under orders my efforts are enthusiastic (and skilled!), i assure you. And no, a standing order is not affective.

[imperfect_cupcake]

Originally Posted by Stoney

Okay heres some questions I would like to throw out there and hear some feed back.

If a woman is in a relationship with a stone butch , is she now a stone femme?
Does that change an identity if the person you are with is stone? or would you simply identify as femme?
If you would be changing your style of sex out of respect for the person you were with or is it a lifestyle you would continue to pursue even in a different relationship? also would a woman who identifies as a stone femme whether in a relationship or not only look to date a stone butch?

I know for me, being Stone isnt an issue if it was a casual thing but what about a different senerio, you fall in love with a person who wasnt stone before, or maybe you fall in love with a stone butch and you arent....would you always feel like something was missing? Would you miss making love to a woman? I always wondered if my partner was feeling restricted from something she may desire to do with me or to me , just like I do her.

My first female long term partner was stone. I've seen many stone butches, casually and seriously.

I've never ID'd as a stonefemme (though I have had long periods of being stone - boundried about where people can touch me - myself). I've never felt there was something missing unless there *was* something missing in our relationship, not sex. If it was with the right person, if my wife suddenly decided she was stone, then I would not have much of problem with it. I'm pretty damn flexible. I enjoy giving anal sex, a lot, but I know some people can't. I don't feel like a part of me has been lopped off if I can't. Just the way some things go. And I'm well versed, so I'm not fussed.

My ID does not depend on my partner. full stop.

stone butches...
Has being stone been greeted with the wide eye " your Kiddings" like I described in a previous post in this thread?

Do you tell people you are stone, I mean in the general community, not Butch-femme? is it something personal you only share with your partner?...
Honestly I dont just put that out there. It isnt a common knowlege thing among my Friends, except here, online. I only cross that bridge if I come to it I guess.

I know isn't addressed to me, but, too bad!

I know there are plenty of places in the states and in canada it's acceptable to state your ID as stone butch. in the generder queer scene in london.... em... no. Butch is fine when mentioned in passing, no one gives a fuck, so woulod find it slightly odd for someone to do it adamantly/proudly. Sort of like shouting "I'm here, I'm queer" in a club where everyone has been out for 900 billion years and has the right to get married. State one is stone? not. that's sort of like telling your dinner guests how you like to masturbate. No one really wants to know your preferences in the sack. or how many toilet squares it takes to wipe your ass, while having a beer with you. It's kinda considered TMI. it's kinda a conversation you have with someone you intend to have sex with and close friends if you talk about sex with your close friends, not your casual mates.

the community clubs I hang in understands butch-femme, butch-butch, femme-femme, trans-butch, trans-femme, trans-wotever, bi, and all variations of generqueer. No one blabs about it too much, it's kind of a given. Though the term pillow princess/prince gets bandied about a bit, but not in a nasty way. and many people are more than happy to put their hand up and own that term.

[adorable]

I actually came to these sites to FIND my ID because I believed there was one. I found there was none and yet I am stone. I am stone not for the reasons that some may think...for me it has everything to do with what OTHERS think of my sexuality and not at all based on what my sexuality is in reality. I am NOT like you. I am me. He is He. Together we are. Who understands what I have come to understand doesn't mean a damn thing. I get it.

Stone is one way to quickly describe for me a dynamic that can also be described for me as D/g. Do we fuck that way? Sometimes. Do we love that way? Always. Will most people ever understand it? NO. Do I care? Not anymore.

[friskyfemme]

I do appreciate what y'all are saying. I have experienced many different sexual and personal relationships. I guess I had to come to my own based on what did/didn't work for me. I guess that because we all grow into ourself thru life experiences, no one definition is ever going to solely describe who we are compared to someone else. The best we can hope for is to love each other for the unique individual we are. By saying I am femme, I am relating that I am female id. I am stone femme which means I seek butches and transguys that are male id and don't want me to pleasure them in the same way they do me. This dynamic allows a melding of 2 energies (male/female) in balance (for me) 'the Dance'. This is not just a sexual preference but a lifestyle choice for me and my partner. This is who I am and doesn't define anyone else.

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by adorable

I actually came to these sites to FIND my ID because I believed there was one. I found there was none and yet I am stone. I am stone not for the reasons that some may think...for me it has everything to do with what OTHERS think of my sexuality and not at all based on what my sexuality is in reality. I am NOT like you. I am me. He is He. Together we are. Who understands what I have come to understand doesn't mean a damn thing. I get it.

Stone is one way to quickly describe for me a dynamic that can also be described for me as D/g. Do we fuck that way? Sometimes. Do we love that way? Always. Will most people ever understand it? NO. Do I care? Not anymore.

Interesting. Ok, so if I am understanding you correctly, you define your relationship as stone b/c it is a D/g relationship?

Meaning definition of stone for you = D/g ?

[bright_arrow]

Originally Posted by Stoney

Okay heres some questions I would like to throw out there and hear some feed back.

If a woman is in a relationship with a stone butch , is she now a stone femme?

I am partnered with a stone butch, but it does not change my identity and never has.

Does that change an identity if the person you are with is stone? or would you simply identify as femme?

I have identified as femme since I found the term, even when my partner was stone butch, transgendered, or just a non-identified woman loving woman (does that make sense?).

If you would be changing your style of sex out of respect for the person you were with or is it a lifestyle you would continue to pursue even in a different relationship? also would a woman who identifies as a stone femme whether in a relationship or not only look to date a stone butch?

It is in my nature to touch and be touched, just as it is some's nature to touch and not be touched, or not be touched and touch. However, I look at it more as a "This is what I do not like." as opposed to "This is what you can't ever do." Same thing, yes, but it is easier to wrap my head around. That way I see it just as a preference, and do not take it personally, even though in my mind it is not personal, my heart sometimes takes it personally to the extreme. Does that make sense? I have cried myself to sleep before thinking I was doing something wrong and therefore being punished by not being allowed to touch at all. It just makes me feel down on myself when I think of it like "I can not do this to my partner because they do not want me to." vs. "My partner just prefers not to be touched this way, but they do like it this way."

I know for me, being Stone isnt an issue if it was a casual thing but what about a different senerio, you fall in love with a person who wasnt stone before, or maybe you fall in love with a stone butch and you arent....would you always feel like something was missing? Would you miss making love to a woman? I always wondered if my partner was feeling restricted from something she may desire to do with me or to me , just like I do her.

I won't lie, yes sometimes I feel a void. Coming out, it was always reciprocating sex with my girlfriends, there was no boundaries when it came to our bodies. When I became aware of the butch/femme community, I was partnered with a butch lesbian who identified as stone, but sometimes she would get really out of it (i.e. she was addicted to pain pills) and suddenly that went out the window. Imagine my surprise the next night when she flipped out on my attempts at initiating sex. I quickly became confused as to what was allowed, when it was allowed.. Not trying to come across negatively, just trying to explain my confusion as a newly outed lesbian.

My responses are above in purple.