Breeder and other words we use to hurt our own.

[JustJo]

Originally Posted by Dylan

And after you were pregnant?

Pregnant is a certain stage of the reproduction cycle

It's not the same connotation

And let's not forget that once women are past the age of reproducing/carrying on the human race, they're no longer seen as attractive or useful to the patriarchy (unless they're the caretaking, doting grandmother who once again is dealing with children).


Dylan

How about if we say parent? mother?

I wasn't bred...I'm not a cow.

I became pregnant. I am a mother. I parent. Any of those is better, at least to me.

I agree that women are judged, in part, by whether or not they have children. We are also judged, in part, by our physical appearance, how much money we make or have, who we partner with. the class we are born into, the car we drive, the clothes we wear and more.

For me, the central problem isn't that women are raised to be mothers or measure their worth by their sexual appeal to others (although I have a problem with both of those things)...it's that we aren't generally raised to treasure our own individuality - no matter what it looks like or where it takes us.

[Spirit Dancer]

[Soon]

Originally Posted by Spirit Dancer

/derail
I wish this was true for all mothers.

[Lady Pamela]

Even in the dictionary it reads:

breed·er (brdr)
n.
1. A person who breeds animals or plants.
2. An animal kept to produce offspring.
3. Offensive Slang A heterosexual person.
4. A source or cause: social injustice breeder of revolutions.


Right here it clearing shows many forms of how it is offensive.
And a huge amount of offensive sides are not even listed.

The word implies we are like cattle...Held to reproduce only.

And degrades our parenthood.

I for one was not raised to breed.
My mother never taught me that was what my adulthood looked like.
I chose my mothering. And adore and cherrish it.

[SuperFemme]

I really don't want this thread to turn into what Dylan thinks about how women are groomed. I get what hy is saying and I hear hym.

I started this thread because just seeing the word upset me. It has been used about me in conjunction with how "girly girl" I am on several occasions. As if being a Queer Woman is a balancing act of being Queer but not too "Girly".

I don't think I will ever change my girliness or being a Femme. I wonder why that is frowned upon?

Raising kids with a mom, a dad and a partner feels subversive to some degree. More people to love and shape a child and I get to be *me*. It took me a long time to be brave enough to do that.

[Dylan]

Originally Posted by JustJo

How about if we say parent? mother?

I wasn't bred...I'm not a cow.

I became pregnant. I am a mother. I parent. Any of those is better, at least to me.

I agree that women are judged, in part, by whether or not they have children. We are also judged, in part, by our physical appearance, how much money we make or have, who we partner with. the class we are born into, the car we drive, the clothes we wear and more.

For me, the central problem isn't that women are raised to be mothers or measure their worth by their sexual appeal to others (although I have a problem with both of those things)...it's that we aren't generally raised to treasure our own individuality - no matter what it looks like or where it takes us.

Do you think women are groomed to be mothers for their own selves or do you think women are groomed to be mothers for the benefit of men?

Do you think motherhood is so regaled when a man is NOT involved?

Because when there's NOT a man around, those women (single women) are seen (STILL...in 2010) as whores and or 'untouchable' by men, because they have another man's child.

So, do you think girls are taught to be mothers (and that's not the word I want, because 'mothers' are usually regaled [unless they're single mothers]...mother does not have the same connotation as what I was trying to convey in how the patriarchy treats/grooms girls)

I'm not talking about how I (me,me,me) or you or women see parenting/motherhood/etc...I'm talking about patriarchy and how little girls are taught from a young age that their worth is tied to their sexuality and ability to create children. And because I likened that whole post to FLDS and the grooming that takes place in that arena...breed is exactly the right word.

Because I don't see the patriarchal grooming of (girl) children in this society as ANY different than FLDS society, and that's EXACTLY how women are treated in that patriarchal society.


Dylan

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by Dylan

Do you think women are groomed to be mothers for their own selves or do you think women are groomed to be mothers for the benefit of men?

Do you think motherhood is so regaled when a man is NOT involved?

Because when there's NOT a man around, those women (single women) are seen (STILL...in 2010) as whores and or 'untouchable' by men, because they have another man's child.

So, do you think girls are taught to be mothers (and that's not the word I want, because 'mothers' are usually regaled [unless they're single mothers]...mother does not have the same connotation as what I was trying to convey in how the patriarchy treats/grooms girls)

I'm not talking about how I (me,me,me) or you or women see parenting/motherhood/etc...I'm talking about patriarchy and how little girls are taught from a young age that their worth is tied to their sexuality and ability to create children. And because I likened that whole post to FLDS and the grooming that takes place in that arena...breed is exactly the right word.

Because I don't see the patriarchal grooming of (girl) children in this society as ANY different than FLDS society, and that's EXACTLY how women are treated in that patriarchal society.


Dylan

It's a damn good thang I don't and have never listened to shit like that..

It may have been shoved down my face by things around me, it just did not ring true for ME.

I am the bomb fucking diggity cause I am a single mom, have been, and still don't need no damn body as I continue to do so.

I was taught I can do anything on my own.

[JustJo]

Well I'm gonna have to change colors here so I can go point to point...because I think you raise some interesting questions...
Let me start first by saying that, as much as I love the warm sentiments of motherhood...I was NOT raised to be a mother. I was raised by a narcissist who made it very clear to me from a very young age that motherhood ruined her life, her future and her happiness. I was raised to believe that motherhood was one step above slavery, and the last thing in the world I should ever desire.

Originally Posted by Dylan

Do you think women are groomed to be mothers for their own selves or do you think women are groomed to be mothers for the benefit of men?

20 years ago I would have agreed with you that women were groomed to be mothers primarily to support the status quo. Anymore? No. The largest growing (I believe) stratum of new mothers are older, first time, single mothers - many of whom have decided to stop waiting for Mr. Right and just start their own family on their own terms. I personally know many of women in this cohort - and they are mothering purely for their own reasons and because it's what their own heart desires.

Do you think motherhood is so regaled when a man is NOT involved?

Because when there's NOT a man around, those women (single women) are seen (STILL...in 2010) as whores and or 'untouchable' by men, because they have another man's child.

Not in my experience.l I am a single mother. I did, eventually and big mistake, marry my son's father for a few years thinking it would be best for my son. No one ever called or treated me like a whore, and I was far from untouchable by men. In fact, I had several volunteers to step into my ready made family. Yes, there are some men who avoid single moms...but honestly, not many.

So, do you think girls are taught to be mothers (and that's not the word I want, because 'mothers' are usually regaled [unless they're single mothers]...mother does not have the same connotation as what I was trying to convey in how the patriarchy treats/grooms girls)

I'm not talking about how I (me,me,me) or you or women see parenting/motherhood/etc...I'm talking about patriarchy and how little girls are taught from a young age that their worth is tied to their sexuality and ability to create children. And because I likened that whole post to FLDS and the grooming that takes place in that arena...breed is exactly the right word.

Acutally, I think women today are measured more by their ability to be a trophy wife than a mother. You don't need breast implants, botox injections and a lifestyle lift to be a mother. But that's what's getting hammered into us now. Again, 20 years ago I would have agreed that a woman's ability to have children was key. Anymore, I think her ability to fit into a size 3 is more important to much of mainstream society.

I think we've gone past the "woman as mother" stage in our culture and moved into "woman as perpetually youthful hottie" instead. I don't see it as an improvement, but no one consulted me.

Because I don't see the patriarchal grooming of (girl) children in this society as ANY different than FLDS society, and that's EXACTLY how women are treated in that patriarchal society.


Dylan

I do hear what you're saying Dylan...I just feel like you're talking about a 20 year old dynamic.

[Zimmeh]

I have always been told by my mother that I shouldn't have kids. I would love to have kids, but I run a 50/50 chance of not being able to carry, and that is why I don't have kids. I support single mothers, my best friend of 23 years is one. I watch her work two full time jobs to make sure her little boy has food, clean clothes and a place to live.

Thank you Jo Jo!

Zimmy

Originally Posted by JustJo

Well I'm gonna have to change colors here so I can go point to point...because I think you raise some interesting questions...
Let me start first by saying that, as much as I love the warm sentiments of motherhood...I was NOT raised to be a mother. I was raised by a narcissist who made it very clear to me from a very young age that motherhood ruined her life, her future and her happiness. I was raised to believe that motherhood was one step above slavery, and the last thing in the world I should ever desire.



I do hear what you're saying Dylan...I just feel like you're talking about a 20 year old dynamic.

[Random]

Originally Posted by Dylan

Because when there's NOT a man around, those women (single women) are seen (STILL...in 2010) as whores and or 'untouchable' by men, because they have another man's child.

Dylan

I have to STRONGLY disagree with this misandrist statement...

I know for a fact that this is not true..

Both my mother and myself we *unwed mothers* and I know DAMN well that my father didn't think my mother was a whore or untouchable.. I know the same thing about my ex husband...

Remember.. there are NO absolutes in live.. not ONE group of ANYTHING/ANYONE feels the same way, simply because they belong to that group....

Sorry for the derail.. but I can't sit still and let all guys be tared with the same feather...