Spirituality and Orientation/Gender

[Nat]

AtLastHome brought up in another thread that she applies her spirituality to her butch identity.

I also at least wonder if my gender experience has a spiritual root. I am curious if others here have found their spirituality either helps them understand or is otherwise entwined with their orientation and/or gender.

[Nat]

For me:

Reincarnation -

I've thought before perhaps I was a guy in my last life, or if maybe a couple reincarnated into me.

Jungian stuff -

I have wondered a bit if my experience with my gender is due to some anima/animus stuff from Jungian theory.

From Wikipedia

The anima and animus are described by Jung as elements of his theory of the collective unconscious, a domain of the unconscious that transcends the personal psyche. In the unconscious of the male, it finds expression as a feminine inner personality: anima; equivalently, in the unconscious of the female, it is expressed as a masculine inner personality: animus.

If the anima/animus does exist, I don't know how it works in the queer world. It's a bit frustrating to read him (for me) because his ideas about male and female, masculinity and femininity are outdated and I don't agree with them, but I'm still intrigued by the idea of an internal archetype of this sort. Is that what I'm sensing when I talk about the guy inside of me? Is he just my animus?

Other stuff -

Since I began a Goddess-centered (Pagan) spiritual path, I have found a lot more peace. This world can be a harsh one, and it helps me balance out, as does meditation.

Also, I just have the feeling that I was dealt the card of this life, and it's something I should embrace as fully as possible and do the most with it I can. That may not sound necessarily spiritual, but it's from a spiritual place.

[Passionaria]

If the anima/animus does exist, I don't know how it works in the queer world. It's a bit frustrating to read him (for me) because his ideas about male and female, masculinity and femininity are outdated and I don't agree with them, but I'm still intrigued by the idea of an internal archetype of this sort. Is that what I'm sensing when I talk about the guy inside of me? Is he just my animus?

I am essentially a Taoist. I find Jung's theories on Anima / Animus delightfully reflective of what we call Yin Yang theory. The famous Taoist text, the Tao te Ching states :

The Tao gives birth to One.
One gives birth to Two.
Two gives birth to Three.
Three gives birth to all things.

One giving birth to the two, represents spirit moving from essence into the limitless manifestations of physical reality.The physical world of two, or duality, being a dance between polar opposites, or Yin and Yang. The forces of Yin and Yang are not static, nor do they exists separate from one another, and each holds within it the essence of the other. A multidimensional interweaving of opposites, within and without. Pushing, pulling dancing, changing, giving birth to limitless possibilities of physical manifestation. This is represented in the Yin Yang Symbol.

Black represents Yin or the feminine aspects of the universe, white represents male or Yang aspects of the universe. The dot in each represents yin within yang, and yang within yin. The shape rather than a straight line, represents the fluid movement of the dance between them. Through this dance nothing is impossible, but a matter of the right balance of opposites in space and time. This dance between good and evil, male and female, dark and light, action / inaction, hot and cold, etc. essentially exists without guilt, blame or judgment. It is the human mind that adds that layer. It is just "the dance".

So yes, when it comes to my identity as a Femme, I do relate to the theories of Anima. The yin nature of the universe. The divine Feminine is what calls to me, the essence of my expressions. Layered upon that is my need to share body, and my soul with another woman, one who reflects a strong yang within yin.

The Mysterious Female

The Valley Spirit never dies
It is named the Mysterious Female.
And the doorway of the Mysterious Female
Is the base from which Heaven and Earth sprang.
It is there within us all the while;
Draw upon it as you will, it never runs dry ~Tao te Ching


Pashi

[Lynn]

I love your questions.



Over the past ten years or more, I have developed some definite ideas about myself, as a spiritual being. Coming out in this time period has been a part of the process of connecting to myself more honestly, and of clarifying who I am in relation to the universe. I believe that humans are spiritual beings who are bigger than and more than their bodies. Even so, coming out has been as much a sexual heightening as it has been spiritual. I can't help connecting the two when I am feeling so much more centered and alive. It feels like I am more expanded and aware now, which makes me feel like my identity and sexual preferences are more incidental--they are signposts of a greater type of development, beyond the body, but a part of it. Life is so much brighter now, and sex is so amazing, I seriously am often moved to prayer. I'm thankful that the dots finally connect.

[Nat]

I loved reading both of your posts, Pashi and Lynn. Both are so insightful and beautifully written. Thank you so much for posting them.

[Enigma]

~Twin Souls - When Love Incarnates~

[Kätzchen]

Originally Posted by Enigma

~Twin Souls - When Love Incarnates~

This is beautiful, thanks for posting it!
PS/ welcome to the planet!

[AtLast]

Everything about me has a spiritual center...

This certainly a far cry from my early days of actually wanting to enter a formal theological ministry with a Christian base. In fact, these two stages of my life have no commonality any longer.

[Venus007]

I am posting here in passing, (I am at lunch) but I will be back with something more thought out. Subscribing

[Andrew, Jr.]

This is a great thread Nat! Thanks for starting this.

Reincarnation: Yes, I believe in it. For me, I believe that I must have been some nasty, evil, biomale who abused people. So in order for me to move forward in the after life, I have to correct/fix the past mistakes. However, I do believe that I was killed/murdered in my past life. Hence I have tbi, asperger's and everything that goes with that, and a body that betrays me each and every day. Nothing can come close to my hell on earth. So, that leaves me with the thinking that I must have been a horrible person in my prior life. I must have been too busy for those who needed me. Now I am in a situation where I have time, but few folks who do care.

I believe that everyone and every thing has a center or being. And we all are intertwinned within each other. It's destiny. There are no mistakes in life. Everything happens for a reason, good and horrible.

There are many many layers of reality as we know of them. Some people are awake and know what I mean, and then there are some who have no clue as to what it is. It's perception that's all. For example, if I go with Dino on a hiking trip and I take Nate with me. We both may look at the same log cabin and he will hate it and say it looks like a tepee or wigwam from an era long ago. I will say no it's a log cabin that has been taken over by brush, animals, insects, and the aging process. Who is right? Who is wrong? Nobody. We all have different perceptions. There are no right or wrong answers in life. We just have to strive to be in tune with the reality and dimension that we are interacting with. Make sense?

I believe that once someone understands and accepts certain things, the universe becomes an entirely new dimension. A new respect for the living comes about. The universe does talk to each of us. We just have to be open to listening to it.

Namaste,
Andrew

[foxyshaman]

Good question Nat;

I am inbetween tasks right now but want to write a bit when I have some time later today.

[Andrew, Jr.]

I have a friend of mine who told me this saying, and it sticks with me all the time. She told me this some time ago when my sister was dying. She said that if you draw a circle - not a heart - around the ones you love. Hearts can be broken, but circles go on forever. I really never gave any thought to that until recently. She was very right. And it applies to all relationships.

[Medusa]

Interesting thread, Nat! I would be interested to see a poll with gender id versus spiritual beliefs

[Nat]

Originally Posted by Medusa

Interesting thread, Nat! I would be interested to see a poll with gender id versus spiritual beliefs

thanks very much Medusa! I would be more than happy to add a poll to the thread tonight. I gotta think about how best to set one up. Is there any info you'd be most intrigued to see?

[Glenn]

I will state here with absolute certainty, through direct experience, that God is both Male and Female, Butch and Femme.

[Sachita]

Originally Posted by Nat

For me:

Reincarnation -

I've thought before perhaps I was a guy in my last life, or if maybe a couple reincarnated into me.

Jungian stuff -

I have wondered a bit if my experience with my gender is due to some anima/animus stuff from Jungian theory.

From Wikipedia



If the anima/animus does exist, I don't know how it works in the queer world. It's a bit frustrating to read him (for me) because his ideas about male and female, masculinity and femininity are outdated and I don't agree with them, but I'm still intrigued by the idea of an internal archetype of this sort. Is that what I'm sensing when I talk about the guy inside of me? Is he just my animus?

I think it works about the same in any world, Anima/animus but I think the difference is reincarnation and how you manifest in the here and now. Your journey will present the aspects it needs to fuel your spirit for your destiny.

My spirituality is most definitely linked to my femininity and Goddess attitude.

[SuperFemme]

Complicated. I think that being raised a good Catholic girl made for a torturous road to my relationship with self and the gender of Femme.

I'm not even sure it is completely accurate to say that Femme is my gender, but it is not encompassing enough to simply state that my gender is female. If that makes sense.

All through grade school and high school I felt myself to be the antithesis of what I was being told I was supposed to be. That led to a lot of years of self loathing, self deprecation and general confusion.

My gender was not Mary Magdalene or Joan of Arc, but rather a mixture of masculine and feminine components that seemed to be at odds with each other if I listened to Sister Mary Anne.

In a way I am grateful because I feel that my sexuality and my gender intertwined with my inquisitive nature and sent me on a spiritual quest.

In the end the gift of spirituality was all encompassing and has led me to self love and inner peace.

I have NO idea if anything I just said makes any sense to anyone else....

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by Nat

AtLastHome brought up in another thread that she applies her spirituality to her butch identity.

I also at least wonder if my gender experience has a spiritual root. I am curious if others here have found their spirituality either helps them understand or is otherwise entwined with their orientation and/or gender.

Yes, I do and it is intertwined with the lesbian portion of my soul/spirit. It took me a very long time to cleanse the negative religious roots I had and allow another spiritual base to appear. And Jungian psychology is at the core for me. Plus, paranormal entities.

The butch aspect is that yin and yang (for want of a better term) of female and male as a butch that for me, is light within. The anima and animus and the past archetypes connected to me in that collective unconscious. I doubt I will ever be able to explain this outside of myself. That's OK, maybe it isn't meant for outside understanding. Maybe that is what spirituality really is, personal.

I want to nourish this aspect of myself more in retirement. Travel is the key.... going to where ancient souls began and world beliefs still live on. Learning more about Native American spirituality here is also key.

I don't really have any feelings about a deity, per se. Just energy and it is female and male energy that just cannot be separated. It must coexist.

[Greyson]

Originally Posted by AtLastHome

Yes, I do and it is intertwined with the lesbian portion of my soul/spirit. It took me a very long time to cleanse the negative religious roots I had and allow another spiritual base to appear. And Jungian psychology is at the core for me. Plus, paranormal entities.

The butch aspect is that yin and yang (for want of a better term) of female and male as a butch that for me, is light within. The anima and animus and the past archetypes connected to me in that collective unconscious. I doubt I will ever be able to explain this outside of myself. That's OK, maybe it isn't meant for outside understanding. Maybe that is what spirituality really is, personal.

I want to nourish this aspect of myself more in retirement. Travel is the key.... going to where ancient souls began and world beliefs still live on. Learning more about Native American spirituality here is also key.

I don't really have any feelings about a deity, per se. Just energy and it is female and male energy that just cannot be separated. It must coexist.

I have similar notions. I think masculine and feminine are moving toward a blend that is more than coexisting. The "energy" nourishes, thrives, blends, expresses as one, the same.

I spend much time talking about and thinking as to why we attach gender based labels to our behaviour, thinking, emotions, creativity and so on. I see my gender as an expression of my evolving, "peeling the onion". (Keep in mind that "the onion" is unique to each individual.) It's ironic that the more I move into a masculine expression, the more my feminine consciousness and expression grew, opened up.

[Andrew, Jr.]

The word just makes most folks think it is a negative. I don't. I think Karma is both positive and negative. Ying and Yang. It is like two hands intertwined. I think and believe that every action has a reaction (sounds like a phyics thing). For example when my sister died, I have many other women come into my life that not necessarily replaced her, but added onto my family of choice. It is just one more to go thru life with. I celebrate that fact.

Does anyone else have this thinking?