The Genital Mutilation Thread

[betenoire]

Originally Posted by Unndunn

First of all, we're not talking about the scrotum at all.

When I posted I had just gotten home from a 14 hour long graveyard shift, so you will have to forgive my mistype. I am not stupid, I know we were talking about foreskins. In fact, ---I--- was talking about foreskins but mistyped.

How about in the future you read and understand the entire message instead of using one mistyped word as your basis for dismissal? It's pretty clear that I was talking about foreskins - otherwise I would not have said anything about circumcisions.

Originally Posted by blush

Are the anaerobic bacteria present not destroyed to antibacterial soap? It seems less invasive to wash the foreskin than to cut it off.

Boy oh boy, it's a good thing you weren't tired and accidentally typed some other bodypart instead of foreskin!

~~~

The argument that most male children who get circumcised do so when they are really really young and won't remember it as adults is laughable. By that logic we should be able to do all sorts of horrible things to babies - hey, they won't remember it right? Game on!

[SuperFemme]

I think as mothers we are pretty much forced/shamed into complying with doing the circumcision on our male babies in the hospital. It's not like the OB/GYN discusses it with you during pregnancy.

It's not like they even discuss it with you in the hospital. They wait until you are all worn out from giving birth and then they come in the room and shove a consent form in front of you and tell you to sign it. You are never encouraged not to circumcise or told that it is not medically necessary. Think about that. It's a cosmetic procedure being done on a little life that is hours old. Elective. One out of every 500 circumcisions results in a serious complication. About 4 out of 100 are either considered unsatisfactory or result in some sort of complication.

“Some children end up with adhesions and/or skin bridges which can impede hygiene and actually precipitate infections.” The most common complication is the removal of either too much or too little skin. This may not become apparent until years later. Many circumcised adults complain that too much skin was removed. This can result in painful erections and bowing or curvature of the penis. Other common results not always noticed until later include extensive scarring, skin tags, and bleeding of the circumcision scar.

Yet there is little to no consultation beforehand. So while I understand that male circumcision is nowhere near the same a FGM it is a serious issue and one that keeps getting swept under the rug.

[Heart]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

I think as mothers we are pretty much forced/shamed into complying with doing the circumcision on our male babies in the hospital. It's not like the OB/GYN discusses it with you during pregnancy.

I agree. This was basically my experience. It was never raised or discussed in terms of health pros or cons by anyone prior to my giving birth. Once it was discussed I was in the immediate aftermath of labor (I did not know ahead of time that I was having a boy). I signed the papers. It seemed like the "normal" thing to do. I remember being told it was "healthier," I remember my mother saying, "all Jewish boys are circumcised," and my husband, who was not Jewish, was also circumcised and he wanted our son to be as well. (Yes, he did want the baby to "look like him," I distinctly remember that part of the conversation").

What bothers me the most when I think back on it was that I was not present when it was done. Because I was not religious, I did not have a Bris at home. It was done in the hospital while I was still in recovery. I hate that I wasn't there with my baby and that he went through that alone.

Heart

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by Heart

I agree. This was basically my experience. It was never raised or discussed in terms of health pros or cons by anyone prior to my giving birth. Once it was discussed I was in the immediate aftermath of labor (I did not know ahead of time that I was having a boy). I signed the papers. It seemed like the "normal" thing to do. I remember being told it was "healthier," I remember my mother saying, "all Jewish boys are circumcised," and my husband, who was not Jewish, was also circumcised and he wanted our son to be as well. (Yes, he did want the baby to "look like him," I distinctly remember that part of the conversation").

What bothers me the most when I think back on it was that I was not present when it was done. Because I was not religious, I did not have a Bris at home. It was done in the hospital while I was still in recovery. I hate that I wasn't there with my baby and that he went through that alone.

Heart

YES!

There is cultural significance in my community regarding the procedure and I too let my son be carted off to another room to have it done in a cold and clinical setting.

I feel like I let him down in more than one way. I also feel that having a mother make that kind of decision after labor and delivery is irresponsible and disrespectful to the mother. IMO it takes away a degree of choice.

[Jett]

I think the distinction as far as one being "mutilation" and the other not has a lot to do with the intent and results. Mutilation is defined as something that damages form or function of the human body to the detriment of the person experiencing it.

Although circumcision sometimes can result in botched surgery, it's done often with beneficial results in mind and usually ends up that way. Whereas FGM is not a "therapeutic" procedure, more aptly disfiguring and can result in permanent loss of ability to derive any sexual pleasure for life.

Both are questionable and worthy of discussion, but just in the context of "mutilation" FGM certainly strikes me at a core level as a more barbaric harmful practice in the long term.

Metro

[Unndunn]

Originally Posted by Unndunn

First of all, we're not talking about the scrotum at all. It's the foreskin. Next, I'm not an advocate for or against circumcision in males. I simply know that there are medical reasons that it helps reduce infections in males, which therefore helps reduce infections in the women (or men) that they have sex with. That was my point-- that there is no medical benefit to women who are circumcized, but there is for men who are circumcized.

Originally Posted by betenoire

When I posted I had just gotten home from a 14 hour long graveyard shift, so you will have to forgive my mistype. I am not stupid, I know we were talking about foreskins. In fact, ---I--- was talking about foreskins but mistyped.

How about in the future you read and understand the entire message instead of using one mistyped word as your basis for dismissal? It's pretty clear that I was talking about foreskins - otherwise I would not have said anything about circumcisions.

I wasn't basing my post on your accidental word substitution; in fact the only thing I would like to have dismissed from your post was the attitude. I'm not allowed to call you on referencing the wrong body part but it's okay for you to say I didn't read or understand your entire message? Howabout in the future we all give each other a break?

[DapperButch]

Ok, so yesterday I was talking to someone about this thread who has a son. I asked her about circumcision (her son is circumcised) and why did she do it? So, she gave me various reasons, including working with men who were HIV+ and the stats around that, cleanliness, etc. I brought up the desensitizing of the penis and why not just teach children how to pull back the skin and clean the area (I said the same things to her the other day that I have now read others saying).

And she said to me, "Does anyone on that board have a son who was not circumcised? Can anyone speak to the difficulty in getting your 8 year old son to pull back the skin of a flacid penis and clean between the folds? Because it is not like you can do that for them at 8 years old."

She then went on to talk about hearing from more than one parent their difficulty with getting their sons to keep the area clean and spoke about one mother's experience with her son always getting infections under the foreskin and the pain that he would be in when she would have to take a q-tip to clean under the skin after it was infected.

So, now I am curious about this....does anyone here have a child who was not circumcised?

If so, what has the experience been like for you/your son?


(for the sake of self disclosure: I have no children and have not raised any children).

[Medusa]

Im going to warn anyone who might read this article that its *extremely* disturbing. I was sickened.

Evidence of Female Genital Mutilation and sexual conpromise right here in the USA-->http://jezebel.com/5565895/cornell-s...te-6+year+olds

[Unndunn]

Originally Posted by Medusa

Im going to warn anyone who might read this article that its *extremely* disturbing. I was sickened.

Evidence of Female Genital Mutilation and sexual conpromise right here in the USA-->http://jezebel.com/5565895/cornell-s...te-6+year+olds

That is so disturbing. There is no reason for this surgery. I honestly can't believe it's being done, especially in the US. I feel sick just thinking about those poor girls and how this is affecting them now as well as in the future.

[Enigma]

Originally Posted by Medusa

Im going to warn anyone who might read this article that its *extremely* disturbing. I was sickened.

Evidence of Female Genital Mutilation and sexual conpromise right here in the USA-->http://jezebel.com/5565895/cornell-s...te-6+year+olds

Originally Posted by Unndunn

That is so disturbing. There is no reason for this surgery. I honestly can't believe it's being done, especially in the US. I feel sick just thinking about those poor girls and how this is affecting them now as well as in the future.

This loathesome surgical practice happens to little girls and boys ....and adults....because there is a lack of education, acceptance and respect for gender diversity and sexual expression.

My prayers go out to all the people, both here in the US and globally, who routinely have their bodies and self expression policed and invaded by others. It happens every day, in covert and blatant ways. It matters not what country or religion; conformity is demanded.

Hida Viloria is a spokesperson for the rights of children and adults to be free from the tyranny of medical intervention and social gender policing.

Here are parents who have had to fight the medical establishment to protect their little boy. My heart goes out to them and their son, Patrick.

[Enchantress]

A relevant albeit disturbing read. Dear God, why?

So Sad

[Enchantress]

So sorry, I didn't see your earlier post, Medusa! Forgive me!

[Soon]

"It's Tradition, I Had No Choice" Nellie's Story

[foxyshaman]

Originally Posted by DapperButch

So, now I am curious about this....does anyone here have a child who was not circumcised?

If so, what has the experience been like for you/your son?


(for the sake of self disclosure: I have no children and have not raised any children).

Dapper,

I do have a son who is uncircumcised who is now 20. I never had any problems with him keeping his penis clean. He never had an infection, never had any issues. He was tender when he first started to masturbate cause who knows anything about moderation and forskin care at a young age.

There was never any question in my mind to not have my son circumcised. The desensitivity issue was enough to convince me. If I even needed a final nail in the coffin of "NO" it was seeing the little board that the boy is strapped into to get circucised. I had also had sex with two males who had poor circumcisions done, one lost the tip of his penis and the other had to have it redone at 16.

My son has never complained to me that he was not done. There were never any issues in the change rooms (that I am aware of).

Anyway... just thought I would pipe in with my pennies...