Communication 101: The Good, The Bad, The Ugly

[Medusa]

...continuing this thought process.....


If I am Medusa in the above scenario, I might not feel good about trying to start a thread to commune with my Femme sisters (or even Butches who wear makeup) and having someone make a statement that feels like a value judgment.

If I am June in the above scenario, I might truly see wearing cosmetics as a problematic issue rooting from sexism and I might want my Femme sisters (or Butches who wear makeup) to look at what they are doing from another angle.

There could be a million explanations for the way that people feel the way they do but what would be a healthy way to look at it? When people give an opinion that is different than your own, do you internalize it? Does it matter if that opinion includes a value judgement (implied or overt)?

[Apocalipstic]

Maybe I would congratulate June on her natural beauty, but admit that I love cool makeup (when its not this hot out) and that for me cosmetics are about something I enjoy and continue on with the thread.

I think it is important to read carefully and equally important to think about cultural differences. Maybe in the Pacific Northwest makeup is viewed differently than it is in the South? Maybe the word "cosmetics" means something different. Maybe June has had a bad personal experience with cosmetics. Who knows.

I think not taking June's post personally is important. Yes, it night be insensitive of her to mention her natural beauty when we might need trowels of cover-up , but is it worth getting all bent out of shape?

Hell, June might just be having a bad day and not have meant anything at all by her comment.

(hoping we all know this is an example, not that I think June is insensitive )

[Medusa]

You immediately get 100 bonus points for the use of the word "trowels"!!!!

[Andrew, Jr.]

Medusa,

I apologise for not answering your question the way you meant for it to be.

I just think we all should celebrate each other. Life is hard enough. Why not just love and embrace each other as we are. It should be as simple as that.

Love,
Andrew

[DapperButch]

*Bump*

Ok, so I have nothing to say at the moment, but I didn't want this thread to get lost in the shuffle...

I am thinking if some noticed this thread, they would want to post, so I thought I would bump it up.

[Linus]

Originally Posted by Medusa

What GOOD communication skills can be employed in the above scenario?
What BAD communication skills were employed in the above scenario?
Do you see the potential for the ugly there?

I think that people who engage in conversations all have a responsibility to one another if they want to truly have a meaningful conversation. I, personally, am not a fan of drive-bys for this reason (unless they are funny and add levity to the conversation when things are too serious). Im also not a fan of "opinion bombs" where someone comes in to a conversation and drops their bomb and then refuses to come back and talk about why they feel the way they do.

I am WAY guilty of having shitty communication skills in some conversations. I have done the drive-by, the opinion bomb, the snarky one-liner, and the repetitive "here is my opinion" on a repeat record. It never really helped anyone hear me better. Imagine that.

I do think that people process information through their own filters and I have been seeing an incredible amount of personalization going on in some of the threads lately and an over-abundance of personal attacks. Im pretty tired of it and think that the conversations around here would be much better suited for growth and actual productive exchange if we could all learn to take off our "me me me" glasses and see the scenario as a whole, not just through our own lens.
One of the ways that I have been learning to do that in my own world is by replaying the scenario in my head but changing the characters and seeing if I feel any differently. Sometimes I do and when that happens it tells me that Im over-personalizing things.

I hope we can have a good conversation here and am interested to see what folks have to say!

Let's talk about it!

The sections I bolded are what I often see. Too often we look at threads and think to ourselves how this affects just OUR (aka ME! ME! ME! -- think gulls from Finding Nemo) point of view. Part of that, I believe, is that we really do want to be part of the community/conversation and can only really speak on our own experience and how it relates. But I think part of it is how the Internet has evolved and changed communication skills within society as a whole.

I certainly have done it but try to avoid it and try to actively listen. This means, to me, trying to envision someone's else's point of view as well as "actively listening" (e.g., asking for further clarification of their POV, asking them questions that might develop the question/thought/idea more, etc.)

Originally Posted by Medusa

...continuing this thought process.....


If I am Medusa in the above scenario, I might not feel good about trying to start a thread to commune with my Femme sisters (or even Butches who wear makeup) and having someone make a statement that feels like a value judgment.

If I am June in the above scenario, I might truly see wearing cosmetics as a problematic issue rooting from sexism and I might want my Femme sisters (or Butches who wear makeup) to look at what they are doing from another angle.

There could be a million explanations for the way that people feel the way they do but what would be a healthy way to look at it? When people give an opinion that is different than your own, do you internalize it? Does it matter if that opinion includes a value judgement (implied or overt)?

I try to acknowledge, internally, that not everyone has the kind of day I do. Most of my days are relatively happy -- although I do have my frustration days. I tend to post passively. This means, to me, that I write like I talk in the mood that I am (not always good since sometimes I think faster than I write and I forget to ask myself what I had said). Since I cannot read someone's body language over the internet (unless I do a video conference) I can only assume that they post neutrally unless it's obvious to me (e.g., June says "I'M STAMPING MY FEET NOW AT YOU FOR NOT GIVING ME A PRETTY POODLE EMOTICON! POUT!").

But if someone does respond in a way that is unexpected (at least in response to a post I put up) I step back and give it time before I reply. I try to avoid "reactionary" posts and will even avoid logging in for that purpose. After giving myself 24 hours (or more) to think about it, I may reply or not. I don't need the last word in. Sometimes, it's better not to.

As I learned in my support group we need to recognize the concept of "step up, step back" (i.e., if you haven't spoken, then speak up; if you've talked a lot, then step back to let others speak) as well as "check in, check out" (ask the original poster first before changing the topic and when the topic is done, let others know -- I may find a Question/Answer mod where people can ask questions and mark it as Answered when they get the answer that helps them).

I may have more thoughts on this but will step back for now.

[sharkchomp]

About 20 years ago I got off of work early in the morning (I worked third shift) and went home to change clothes before heading back out with my pals. I told my Mom that I was going to change my clothes. I assumed she knew I was going back out with my friends. She assumed that I was changing into my pj's and going to bed. Imagine her surprise when she got a phone call a few hours later about me being in the emergency room!!!

The keys word there was assumed. I see alot of people assume they understand a posters intent or what they actually mean and then they respond quickly. I'm sure we've all seen huge communication issues resolved simply because someone asked for clarification first. There are times when people just disagree and I think issues from that fall out can carry over into other threads.

I know for myself it can be hard to see beyond the ME ME ME type of thinking to see the whole picture. I think it can be difficult to do that sometimes.

~~~shark~~~~~~

[Chancie]

Example 1: Medusa posts a thread called "Cosmetic Tips for Femmes" and states that she would like other Femmes to come in and give their ideas and tips for make-up application.

The first post in the thread is June saying "I dont wear cosmetics because I feel that cosmetics are sexist and I dont need them due to my natural beauty."

I think June'y should mind her own beeswax and start a different thread about how the use of makeup and foot binding and girdles serve to control women in a patriarchal society.

Because if I want to read a thread about makeup, it's irritating to me when other members attempt to micromanage what they think we should all be discussing.

[Gayla]

Originally Posted by Chancie

Because if I want to read a thread about makeup, it's irritating to me when other members attempt to micromanage what they think we should all be discussing.

I typed out a whole long thing and then came back to see that you had said it all in one line. Well, two lines, I guess depending on screen size.

Yeah, a lot of threads start off as one thing and end up going off in tangents but there's usually something redeeming in the mix of it all. It almost never fails that someone comes in and tells us what we should be talking about rather then just contributing something to the conversation we're actually having. So yeah, I get kinda tired of being told we're doing it wrong.

I also think I often try so hard to not take things personally that I go so far in the opposite direction as to be really irritating. I know it often comes across as if I'm speaking for other people or absolutely everyone when it's really just me trying to understand without internalizing. I also find myself posting from a theoretical level more often then a personal level so I've been trying to change that yet find some type of balance. I also find myself so very conscious of wording things in ways so as not to be offensive to someone that my posts often end up water down to say not much of anything. Or, they end up with so many qualifiers that the point gets lost.