Same-Sex Marriage Update

Toughy · 09-03-2010, 06:30 AM

Quote:

If we can welcome support from Ken Mehlman,

I dang sure don't want a big fat hypocrite like Ken Mehlman supporting any LGBTQI cause. He is a traitor. I don't welcome anything from him. I know I am not the only one in this community who feels this way.

I could care less about manic depression and marriage licenses. I do care that folks who are not gay are applying for marriage licenses. It just provides fodder for the right wing nuts. It sends a message that this is not about equal rights. In my mind it borders on mockery of equal rights.

MsTinkerbelly · 09-03-2010, 10:11 AM

One of the reasons equal marriage is so necessary....me

Kafka and the National Organization for Marriage
(Over my first few weeks here on the Prop 8 Trial Tracker, I’m going to reprint a few — just a few — prior entries from my blog at Waking Up Now. The story of Ron Hanby and Mark Goldberg is one that everybody ought to know. First, because it’s a wrenching story that should open all but the coldest of hearts. Second, because it shows we need full marriage equality on a national scale. And finally, because it demonstrates the nightmare world that NOM wants us to inhabit. — Rob)

by Rob Tisinai

Ron Hanby, struggling with depression, took his own life on October 2, 2008. Mark Goldberg, his partner of 17 years, battled Rhode Island bureaucracy for weeks before the state would release Ron’s body to him. Ron had no living relatives. The couple, however, did have:

wills
living wills
power of attorney documents
and a Connecticut marriage certificate (Rhode Island doesn’t permit same-sex marriage or even civil unions)
None of that mattered in Rhode Island. Mark spent every day of his immediate grief on the phone with state officials, trying to get his husband’s body out of the morgue. Finally, after four weeks, a state bureaucrat took a special interest and helped him get Ron’s body released.

One good thing came out of this: Rhode Island’s state legislators wrote a bill creating funeral rights for domestic partners. They passed it in a bipartisan show of humanity: 63-1 in the House, unanimously in the Senate. And the Republican governor vetoed it.

Now the National Organization for Marriage is urging legislators not to override that veto. Chris Plante (executive director of NOM-RI), has written to them:

[T]he proposed legislation simply is not necessary… The right of any person, without regard to sexual preference or relationship to the decedent, to serve as a designated funeral-planning agent is already expressly guaranteed by Rhode Island Law 5-33.1-4. That statute only requires a simple notarized form naming an agent.

Ah, yes, Rhode Island Law 5-33.1-4. Of course. And what can we say in return except:

Thank you Mr. Plante!

We keep hearing that same-sex marriage isn’t necessary, that we can secure civil equality by visiting lawyers and drawing up contracts. That’s false, but people don’t always understand that. Luckily for us, Mr. Plante has taken this argument into the realm of satire: Mark and Ron had wills, power of attorney, and an actual marriage license? Simpletons! They should have known to go to a notary and designate each other as funeral planning agents, pursuant to R.I. Law 5-33.1-4!

Franz Kafka wrote this kind of satire. The term “Kafkaesque” describes a world in which “characters lack a clear course of action, the ability to see beyond immediate events, and the possibility of escape. The term’s meaning has transcended the literary realm to apply to real-life occurrences and situations that are incomprehensibly complex, bizarre, or illogical.”

Compare that to Mark’s own description of what his life turned into:

I called the Police to our home where the death occurred and in two hours they performed their investigation, offered their condolences, removed Ron’s body and left our house. No one offered any information on what I was to do next. No phone number to contact the detective in charge, no information on where they were taking Ron’s body, no information on what I as his partner for so many years should do next.

Ron had no next of kin other than me. I shared our Wills, Living Wills, Power of Attorney and Marriage Certificate to the Police Department, Medical Examiner’s Office and the Department of Health, but no one was willing to see these documents. The State Law stated that a two week search for next of kin must be done. The Medical Examiner’s office waited a full week before placing an ad in the Providence Journal. After no one responded they waited another week to send paperwork to the Health and Human Services Department listing Ron as an unclaimed body. During this four week process, I was on the phone every day trying to convince someone, anyone, that I was the person claiming Ron’s body. The same response came back to me every time; “It’s State law, our hands are tied, there’s nothing we can do”.

I attempted to place an obituary in the Providence Journal and again, I was denied because we were not blood relatives, and the Journal had to comply with state rules. GLAD, the Gay and Lesbian Advocacy and Defenders could not help me because our bond was not recognized in the State of RI. After four weeks an employee in the Department of General Public Assistance of Human Services took pity upon me and my plight. She reviewed our documentation and was able to get all parties concerned to release Ron’s body to me.

Mr. Plante and NOM look at this nightmare and say, No problem. Because, after all, Mark and Ron could have avoided it simply by following the instructions in Rhode Island Law 5-13.1-4.

I’ll make a deal with NOM: If they specify every law, every form, and every contract – in every state – that gay couples need to pursue in order to secure their rights as a couple, than I’ll do the same for straights. In fact, I’ll provide a complete and exhaustive list for straight Californians right now:

California Marriage License, Registration and Ceremony Information
Okay, NOM, your turn.

But I doubt NOM will return the favor. They don’t want us to have any rights and benefits of marriage. Mr. Plante is clear about his reasons for opposing the funeral rights law.

[T]he legislation in question is actually an exploitation of Mr. Goldberg’s tragedy by the homosexual-marriage activists in Rhode Island. Despite their claims to the contrary, these bills serve simply as “Trojan Horses” for homosexual-marriage. In California and Connecticut…courts found that when rights of domestic partners, under either that nomenclature or as “civil-unions,” were expanded…that the State must by extension fully recognize homosexual marriage…

As such, NOM – Rhode Island respectfully requests that you vote to sustain the Governor’s veto both to avoid creating unnecessary law and to not move Rhode Island closer to recognizing homosexual-marriage.

NOM doesn’t just oppose marriage equality. They don’t just oppose robust civil unions or watered-down domestic partnerships. They oppose anything that might constitute even the slightest formal recognition of our relationships. They want instead to send us running down a thousand different legal avenues in a labyrinth that they’re lobbying to turn against us.

Franz Kafka won a place in literature by creating a vivid and chilling world of bureaucratic brutality. That’s the world in which NOM wants us to live.

Soon · 09-03-2010, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MsTinkerbelly

[B][SIZE="3"]
One good thing came out of this: Rhode Island’s state legislators wrote a bill creating funeral rights for domestic partners. They passed it in a bipartisan show of humanity: 63-1 in the House, unanimously in the Senate. And the Republican governor vetoed it.

Infuriating.

SuperFemme · 09-03-2010, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toughy

I dang sure don't want a big fat hypocrite like Ken Mehlman supporting any LGBTQI cause. He is a traitor. I don't welcome anything from him. I know I am not the only one in this community who feels this way.

I could care less about manic depression and marriage licenses. I do care that folks who are not gay are applying for marriage licenses. It just provides fodder for the right wing nuts. It sends a message that this is not about equal rights. In my mind it borders on mockery of equal rights.

Ditto on Ken DOMA Mehlman.

Your last paragraph is exactly why I chose to post the article. It makes a mockery out of the thousands of us in honest, real long term relationships/marriages that want only one thing: equal rights under the law.

In this crazy mad world, my mind goes places it normally wouldn't. Like two straight men filing this case in hopes of taking it to court and perhaps settling it in a way that is disparaging to same sex couples? Which puts precedent on the law books.

Wolves in sheeps clothing are not imaginary beings.

Cyclopea · 09-03-2010, 05:07 PM

Toughy · 09-03-2010, 06:37 PM

mmmmmmmmmm was that ad a production of Meg Whitman or Carly Fiorny (spelling) vs their respective opponents in the last closed primary of either party in CA?

Just wait..........2 years from now we will see two Republicans against each other for the same seat in general elections in CA. No Democrats allowed because 2 Republicans had the two top votes in the primary elections........

I say CA should ban Constitutional Amendment votes by the people until it passes both the State House and Senate and the current Governor signs it. Then it can go to the people for a vote. It works well in MA and many other states.

Cyclopea · 09-03-2010, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toughy

mmmmmmmmmm was that ad a production of Meg Whitman or Carly Fiorny (spelling) vs their respective opponents in the last closed primary of either party in CA?

Just wait..........2 years from now we will see two Republicans against each other for the same seat in general elections in CA. No Democrats allowed because 2 Republicans had the two top votes in the primary elections........

I say CA should ban Constitutional Amendment votes by the people until it passes both the State House and Senate and the current Governor signs it. Then it can go to the people for a vote. It works well in MA and many other states.

Yes brought to you by the "lovely" Ms Fiorina- good catch!

AtLast · 09-03-2010, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toughy

mmmmmmmmmm was that ad a production of Meg Whitman or Carly Fiorny (spelling) vs their respective opponents in the last closed primary of either party in CA?

Just wait..........2 years from now we will see two Republicans against each other for the same seat in general elections in CA. No Democrats allowed because 2 Republicans had the two top votes in the primary elections........

I say CA should ban Constitutional Amendment votes by the people until it passes both the State House and Senate and the current Governor signs it. Then it can go to the people for a vote. It works well in MA and many other states.

Right on T. I wonder how many ill-informed voters said yes to the CA open primary initiative passed that REALLY understood what it is!!! As in just plain stupid!

SuperFemme · 09-06-2010, 11:02 AM

Engle Rallies Against Gay Marriage in Calif.

Pastor Lou Engle's controversial ministry drew thousands of attendees on Saturday to protest gay marriage, abortion, and pornography on the steps of the California state capitol in Sacramento.

Engle's "TheCall to Conscience" included a 12-hour fast, the Associated Press reports. The rally was in part a protest of the recent court ruling striking down Proposition 8 as unconstitutional (the case is currently on appeal).

"If marriage is going to be upheld between a man and a woman, which we believe is the best for families and children and society, then right now, it seems we need divine intervention," Engle said in an interview with the AP. "That's part of the reason we're coming here, to pray, but also to take a stand and be a prophetic voice to stand for truth."

A recent Uganda rally starring Engle was featured in the September cover story for The Advocate.

http://www.advocate.com/News/Daily_N...lity_in_Calif/

suebee · 09-08-2010, 12:15 PM

An interesting time line of the evolution of same-sex rights in Canada.

09-03-2010, 10:11 AM	#2
MsTinkerbelly Timed Out - TOS Drama How Do You Identify?: ... Preferred Pronoun?: ... Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: ... Posts: 6,573 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 30,737 Thanked 22,907 Times in 5,017 Posts Rep Power: 0	From the Prop 8 Trail tracker One of the reasons equal marriage is so necessary....me Kafka and the National Organization for Marriage (Over my first few weeks here on the Prop 8 Trial Tracker, I’m going to reprint a few — just a few — prior entries from my blog at Waking Up Now. The story of Ron Hanby and Mark Goldberg is one that everybody ought to know. First, because it’s a wrenching story that should open all but the coldest of hearts. Second, because it shows we need full marriage equality on a national scale. And finally, because it demonstrates the nightmare world that NOM wants us to inhabit. — Rob) by Rob Tisinai Ron Hanby, struggling with depression, took his own life on October 2, 2008. Mark Goldberg, his partner of 17 years, battled Rhode Island bureaucracy for weeks before the state would release Ron’s body to him. Ron had no living relatives. The couple, however, did have: wills living wills power of attorney documents and a Connecticut marriage certificate (Rhode Island doesn’t permit same-sex marriage or even civil unions) None of that mattered in Rhode Island. Mark spent every day of his immediate grief on the phone with state officials, trying to get his husband’s body out of the morgue. Finally, after four weeks, a state bureaucrat took a special interest and helped him get Ron’s body released. One good thing came out of this: Rhode Island’s state legislators wrote a bill creating funeral rights for domestic partners. They passed it in a bipartisan show of humanity: 63-1 in the House, unanimously in the Senate. And the Republican governor vetoed it. Now the National Organization for Marriage is urging legislators not to override that veto. Chris Plante (executive director of NOM-RI), has written to them: [T]he proposed legislation simply is not necessary… The right of any person, without regard to sexual preference or relationship to the decedent, to serve as a designated funeral-planning agent is already expressly guaranteed by Rhode Island Law 5-33.1-4. That statute only requires a simple notarized form naming an agent. Ah, yes, Rhode Island Law 5-33.1-4. Of course. And what can we say in return except: Thank you Mr. Plante! We keep hearing that same-sex marriage isn’t necessary, that we can secure civil equality by visiting lawyers and drawing up contracts. That’s false, but people don’t always understand that. Luckily for us, Mr. Plante has taken this argument into the realm of satire: Mark and Ron had wills, power of attorney, and an actual marriage license? Simpletons! They should have known to go to a notary and designate each other as funeral planning agents, pursuant to R.I. Law 5-33.1-4! Franz Kafka wrote this kind of satire. The term “Kafkaesque” describes a world in which “characters lack a clear course of action, the ability to see beyond immediate events, and the possibility of escape. The term’s meaning has transcended the literary realm to apply to real-life occurrences and situations that are incomprehensibly complex, bizarre, or illogical.” Compare that to Mark’s own description of what his life turned into: I called the Police to our home where the death occurred and in two hours they performed their investigation, offered their condolences, removed Ron’s body and left our house. No one offered any information on what I was to do next. No phone number to contact the detective in charge, no information on where they were taking Ron’s body, no information on what I as his partner for so many years should do next. Ron had no next of kin other than me. I shared our Wills, Living Wills, Power of Attorney and Marriage Certificate to the Police Department, Medical Examiner’s Office and the Department of Health, but no one was willing to see these documents. The State Law stated that a two week search for next of kin must be done. The Medical Examiner’s office waited a full week before placing an ad in the Providence Journal. After no one responded they waited another week to send paperwork to the Health and Human Services Department listing Ron as an unclaimed body. During this four week process, I was on the phone every day trying to convince someone, anyone, that I was the person claiming Ron’s body. The same response came back to me every time; “It’s State law, our hands are tied, there’s nothing we can do”. I attempted to place an obituary in the Providence Journal and again, I was denied because we were not blood relatives, and the Journal had to comply with state rules. GLAD, the Gay and Lesbian Advocacy and Defenders could not help me because our bond was not recognized in the State of RI. After four weeks an employee in the Department of General Public Assistance of Human Services took pity upon me and my plight. She reviewed our documentation and was able to get all parties concerned to release Ron’s body to me. Mr. Plante and NOM look at this nightmare and say, No problem. Because, after all, Mark and Ron could have avoided it simply by following the instructions in Rhode Island Law 5-13.1-4. I’ll make a deal with NOM: If they specify every law, every form, and every contract – in every state – that gay couples need to pursue in order to secure their rights as a couple, than I’ll do the same for straights. In fact, I’ll provide a complete and exhaustive list for straight Californians right now: California Marriage License, Registration and Ceremony Information Okay, NOM, your turn. But I doubt NOM will return the favor. They don’t want us to have any rights and benefits of marriage. Mr. Plante is clear about his reasons for opposing the funeral rights law. [T]he legislation in question is actually an exploitation of Mr. Goldberg’s tragedy by the homosexual-marriage activists in Rhode Island. Despite their claims to the contrary, these bills serve simply as “Trojan Horses” for homosexual-marriage. In California and Connecticut…courts found that when rights of domestic partners, under either that nomenclature or as “civil-unions,” were expanded…that the State must by extension fully recognize homosexual marriage… As such, NOM – Rhode Island respectfully requests that you vote to sustain the Governor’s veto both to avoid creating unnecessary law and to not move Rhode Island closer to recognizing homosexual-marriage. NOM doesn’t just oppose marriage equality. They don’t just oppose robust civil unions or watered-down domestic partnerships. They oppose anything that might constitute even the slightest formal recognition of our relationships. They want instead to send us running down a thousand different legal avenues in a labyrinth that they’re lobbying to turn against us. Franz Kafka won a place in literature by creating a vivid and chilling world of bureaucratic brutality. That’s the world in which NOM wants us to live.

09-03-2010, 05:07 PM	#5
Cyclopea Member How Do You Identify?: Butch Lesbian Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Exit Zero Posts: 1,267 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 1,694 Thanked 1,615 Times in 632 Posts Rep Power: 226200	couldn't help myself lol __________________ http://forum.axishistory.com/images/...arious/eye.jpg

09-03-2010, 06:37 PM	#6
Toughy Senior Member How Do You Identify?: pervert butch feminist woman Preferred Pronoun?: see above Relationship Status: independent entity Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Oakland Posts: 1,826 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 4,068 Thanked 7,654 Times in 1,523 Posts Rep Power: 21474853	mmmmmmmmmm was that ad a production of Meg Whitman or Carly Fiorny (spelling) vs their respective opponents in the last closed primary of either party in CA? Just wait..........2 years from now we will see two Republicans against each other for the same seat in general elections in CA. No Democrats allowed because 2 Republicans had the two top votes in the primary elections........ I say CA should ban Constitutional Amendment votes by the people until it passes both the State House and Senate and the current Governor signs it. Then it can go to the people for a vote. It works well in MA and many other states. __________________ We are everywhere We are different I do not care if resistance is futile I will not assimilate www.butchfemmesocials.com/

09-06-2010, 11:02 AM	#9
SuperFemme Timed Out How Do You Identify?: Permanently Banned 10/24/2010 Preferred Pronoun?: She. Relationship Status: Married (one of 18,000) Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Atascadero, CA Posts: 4,933 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 2,309 Thanked 7,108 Times in 2,327 Posts Rep Power: 0	This coming from the man who supports the death penalty for gays in Uganda. Engle Rallies Against Gay Marriage in Calif. Pastor Lou Engle's controversial ministry drew thousands of attendees on Saturday to protest gay marriage, abortion, and pornography on the steps of the California state capitol in Sacramento. Engle's "TheCall to Conscience" included a 12-hour fast, the Associated Press reports. The rally was in part a protest of the recent court ruling striking down Proposition 8 as unconstitutional (the case is currently on appeal). "If marriage is going to be upheld between a man and a woman, which we believe is the best for families and children and society, then right now, it seems we need divine intervention," Engle said in an interview with the AP. "That's part of the reason we're coming here, to pray, but also to take a stand and be a prophetic voice to stand for truth." A recent Uganda rally starring Engle was featured in the September cover story for The Advocate. http://www.advocate.com/News/Daily_N...lity_in_Calif/

09-08-2010, 12:15 PM	#10
suebee Member How Do You Identify?: TOWANDA! Preferred Pronoun?: Queen Bee Relationship Status: Good 'n married. Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Eastern Canada. But if I make a wrong turn at the lights I get stopped by a border guard. Posts: 1,499 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 2,355 Thanked 2,756 Times in 820 Posts Rep Power: 16450092	*An interesting time line of the evolution of same-sex rights in Canada.* __________________ "Compassion, in which all ethics must take root, can only attain its full breadth and depth if it embraces all living creatures and does not limit itself to mankind." -Albert Schweitzer

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