It's Time to Boycott Arizona

[dreadgeek]

There were two more points I wanted to make on this subject.

1) A number of posters have suggested that anyone upset about SB 1070 should move to Arizona so that they can vote against the bill. There's only one problem: SB stands for Senate Bill. This was a bill passed by the Arizona legislature not by popular referendum. The critique several of us have leveled at the voters of Arizona has to do with them electing a governor and a number of state representatives who supported the bill and, in doing so, giving their explicit approval of that bill. Which leads to the core point: why on Earth should people not living in Arizona move there when 53.51% of Arizonans didn't bother to vote! The numbers I'm working with aren't something I pulled out of the thin air, those numbers are available on the web.

The numbers I used came from here: http://www.azprogress.org/content/vo...lowest-yuma-co

So it seems to me that the people who should be pushed to the polls aren't those of us who live outside of Arizona and have no interest in relocating but those who live INSIDE Arizona who were comfortable enough with the prospect of Ms Brewer being elected (she was appointed governor when Napolitano left for Washington) that they stayed home. Which is, as has been said a number of times now, a vote for whomever wins by default.

2) This idea that boycotts are bad. If you really believe that then you need to seriously question any reflexive admiration you might express for Rosa Parks or Martin Luther King, Jr. The reason why you know the name of Parks is BECAUSE her action of asserting her dignity and being arrested for it, precipitated the Birmingham Bus Boycott. Was the Birmingham Bus Boycott an attempt, as one poster has characterized the Arizona boycott, an attempt to kill the families of Birmingham Bus company workers? Martin Luther King came to national prominence *because* of the boycott. As I said a few days ago, I'm sure that if you had polled the workers and families connected to the Birmingham bus company in 1955 you would have heard that they were opposed to the boycott even if they thought that blacks should be able to sit anywhere. They would have said that there must be some OTHER way to get the bus company to change policy (without actually saying what that might be) and if blacks were just a little more patient one day, in the full measure of time, justice would be had.

While we're on that subject, boycotts and strikes work because business owners want to keep making money. They will change unjust policies or, in this case, lobby the government to do so. If Nevada passes such a law (and I hope that the Nevada legislature will learn from the lesson of Arizona) let them. And let Nevada face a tourism boycott. Nevada's economy rises or falls on tourism and tourism alone. Suck the tourism out and you've sucked all of the oxygen out of the Nevada economy. I think that as hotels in Vegas and Reno saw their bookings dry up and particularly as conferences moved from Vegas to other cities in, say, California or Utah or Oregon that the chamber of commerce would make their displeasure known to the legislature in a heartbeat. The bill wouldn't survive the ink drying.

There is a reason why plutocrats hate strikes and boycotts--they can be *very* effective. I realize that after 40 years of labor being decimated in America, we no longer realize what the Europeans do--that striking is an effective way to get business to behave itself--but perhaps we need to relearn that lesson.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Good lord!!


Why would any Latina/o move to a state where being one makes you a TARGET???

I don't understand your logic on this, the boycott SHOULD put a pinch on a State that is and has been allowing it to happen. They are slowly trying to white wash AWAY our cultures with this bill, their ugly no ethnic studies people NADA!

No one has said:

"die Arizonians die"

Now, should they suffer some consequences? Yes, this law is one step closer to ethic cleansing. That's where the frustration lies for me, how you can not see this is odd to me.

[I'mOneToo]

I know this is going to be a screwed up mess quote wise, because I do not understand the multi quote function. I may have to delete it if it's too messy, or there's always that ignore button for those who find it too cumbersome, aj i may pm you if you please
*****
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Actually no one has said or implied anything remotely like the idea that anyone should die. I will, however, reiterate that laws have consequences.


the consequences you mentioned, could cost lives. there is no need for casualties. how much acceptable collateral damage will you allow?

*****
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When anyone says "boycott a state" they are recommending bankrupting all of the residents.
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No, they are recommending putting pressure on the state of Arizona to change the law. The whole idea of a strike or a boycott isn't to ruin businesses, it is to put pressure on them. Right now, Arizona has a law that is explicitly racist and is an open invitation to racial profiling. It is meant to make a particular population feel unsafe and unwelcome and like second-class citizens. It is meant to intimidate citizens. That law must be repealed.


how do 'THEY' recommend putting pressure on a state? it's the state legislature that needs to make the changes, not the innocent citizens, second class, third class, steerage, everyone went down on the titanic, too. i understand the racist laws and their intended target, but everyone will get blood spatter on them before this boycott is through. no one here is saying that anyone deserves to feel unsafe or unwelcome. but a boycott, intimidates ALL of the inhabitants of the state. how does that resolve the situation? 6 million wrongs make a right? the laws must be repealed, yes i agree wholeheartedly. but 'THEY' won't do it successfully by boycotting anything/everything associated with arizona. people i know and love in the state, regardless of their color or immigration status, will be impacted negatively and unnecessarily.

*****
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Bankrupt people starve to death. It's hard to move an entire family to make a political statement -- just as it is difficult for everyone HERE to move TO arizona to make a political statement.
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No one is suggesting that people move to 'make a political statement'. I do believe it would behoove Hispanics living in Arizona to find the exits but that is not about making a political statement, that is about making sure that they are safe. Whites living in Arizona have no reason to move. Let them stay. As I said last night, an exodus is a boycott by another name. I think that Hispanics should leave the state of Arizona and move somewhere they will be welcome.

You said earlier in post #921, this:

"I am going to go out on a limb and suggest that the good people of the Birmingham Bus Company did not think that the Birmingham Bus Boycott was the answer for the problem of blacks sitting in the back of the bus. I'm going to also suggest that the good people of the Woolworth's company didn't think that a boycott of the Woolworth's lunch counter was the right way to deal with that manifestation of segregation. The targets of a boycott NEVER think that it's a good idea--that's kind of the whole point of a boycott is to motivate people to change the conditions that precipitate the boycott.

However, I'm all ears. If a boycott isn't the answer and a mass exodus of Hispanics isn't the answer, what is?"

I gave you my best solution, to fill the state with a majority of card-totin registered voters who could put the legislature's feet to the fire. It's not a bus company that's writing bad laws in AZ, it's not Woolworth's doing it either. If you say boycott the state, it sounds too large and too vague for people to grasp. But how does one boycott a legislature? Well, there are a couple of ways. Ringing the hook off the legislator's desk has usually proved fruitless -- but people can try that. What COULD work is already being done, which is involving the Department Of Justice and the US Supreme court to decide a couple of matters pertaining to the issue.

A boycott is defined as "a form of consumer activism involving the act of voluntarily abstaining from using, buying, or dealing with a person, organization, or country as an expression of protest, usually for political reasons."

An exodus is defined as "a journey by a large group to escape from a hostile environment"

I can't find any references showing the two are linked or any way similar. But for the sake of argument, if you do advocate hispanics finding the exits, what's to say they would be any safer in another state? i mean no disrespect, but i cannot figure out what state of the US, if any, has rolled out the welcome mat for hispanics, whether they are in the US legally or not. this is why i suggest to fill the state up with a majority of fair minded people who can push a recall of Brewer, for one who could strike down what she signed -- but I suspect her replacement would be a similar clone. if all hispanics leave Arizona, do they get to come back after the smoke has all cleared? if you say they are welcome in one of the 50 states, would it not be similar to the ghettos of WWII?

*****
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hmm... but why *aren't* we ALL moving *TO* arizona to register to vote as arizonans to change things?
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Why should ANY person of color put themselves in harm's way? If it were *just* this law, maybe you would have a point but it isn't *just* this law. There's the 'no teaching ethnic studies in school' regulation with its attendant 'no teaching if you have a 'thick' accent' provision. There's the billboards showing a Hispanic family as "the biggest threat facing our nation". And then there's this gem; on 3 Oct 2009 an interracial couple was walking through a park and a man came up to them and asked the black man what he was doing with a white woman. They walked on, he got into a car, followed them and shot them. She died, he lived. In 2009. Over interracial dating. In Arizona.

no one should be put in harm's way. i'm not saying people of a specific color should move to arizona and register to vote. i'm saying everyone eligible to vote regardless of color COULD move to arizona, to work to change the laws that need to be changed. by keeping a white moneyed elite majority, arizona will *never* be safe for people of color. or for anyone except the moneyed elite, really. just as school busing did not improve racial relations, neither will promotion of the busing of hispanics OUT (or however you propose to move them out) of arizona. the billboard you mentioned is meant to pander to the worst kind of fear, and that is the fear that the "HAVES" could lose the value of their property or their supposed 'supremacy'. the incident in october 2009, has been re-enacted in almost every state of the union in the past decade (or longer). those stories are told to instill fear. to keep people of color down. yes, sadly they are true. but if everyone of color leaves arizona in 2010, it's a win-win for the white supremacists of arizona, and a lose-lose proposition for every other state in the union, because the copy-cat laws will really get rolling across the country.

*****

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How can anyone EXCEPT a privileged individual expect *others* to make sacrifices to make america better, instead of taking the bull by the horns ourselves? the ONLY pro-active measures are votes, according to this thread. So... if you're not a registered arizona voter, GET THERE AND REGISTER.
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Except that sword cuts both ways. It is always people of color who have to exercise infinite patience. At each step in the last century, black people were told we had to wait. ONE day, but not today, we could go to any school. ONE day, but not too soon, we could live in any neighborhood. ONE day, but wait for it to come, we will be able to marry anyone we love. And on and on and on. Even today, if someone says something offensive it is always and forever people of color who are supposed to be patient, forbearing and understanding.

i hear you. i think the only thing african american people never hear is accusations that they are illegal immigrants. these days, it seems like everywhere i go, people complain about illegal immigrants. undocumented, workers and otherwise. surprisingly, some people who have made some of those comments to me were people of color other than hispanic. millions of americans are now out of work, and they point to everyone for blame -- but first, the ones who "took their jobs." When logic shows them that it's overwhelmingly true that corporations are opting out of using american workers and choose overseas labor instead, they still don't get it. there is a blind spot. i'm not asking anyone to have infinite patience. if (A) votes are the answer to changing arizona's laws, then (B) the fastest way to do that is to fill the state with residents who will vote to do the right thing.

Or, "vote early and vote often" as they once used to say in Chicago. I'm really surprised no one has suspected Brewer of having a 'fix' in the registrar's office, counting her ballots twice for every one of Goddard's.

*****


Votes have consequences or they should have. Arizona, a state in a democratic republic, elected people who passed a law that in 2010 makes a segment of the population second-class citizens. The state, by its democratic behavior, made a choice and yes it absolutely sucks that people who made another choice will feel pain because of it. They don't deserve it. But neither does the Hispanic mother deserve to have to fear being pulled over by a cop when she was just running down to get a few items at the grocery store and so doesn't have her birth cert on her. For that matter, neither does the Hispanic father who may have to hold it together while he is humiliated by some cop who asks him questions along the "so how long have you been in this country" line. You have not truly tasted of life's bittersweet tragedy until you have had to watch your father hold it in while his very dignity is assaulted in front of his family. They don't deserve it either.


i understand that this is a very emotional issue, and is the crux of the matter. no one in america is so superior that they have the right, just because they wear a badge, to speak condescendingly to a fellow human being. the state's democratic behavior voted a buffoon into office, she is a pawn who was put into office by big moneyed interests. but the state's democratic behavior has no say on sb1070. it's not a ballot initiative. every person who I know personally in Arizona is against SB1070 -- and they cannot undo it. Every one of them did not vote for Brewer, but she's there sitting in the governor's chair.

*****

I'm not talking about people in the country without proper documents or people who have overstayed their visa. I'm talking about people whose bloodlines have lived on the same patch of land since not long after the last ice age ended. They are citizens. I'm talking about people born here. They, too, are citizens. After the Civil Rights movement, I and many others thought, it would appear incorrectly, that we had at long last settled the issue in this country of whether you could make laws designed to make a group of people second-class citizens based upon race. Since Arizona has chosen to take a step backward, I think two things should happen until the state comes to its senses:

1) Every Hispanic person who *can* leave the state should give very serious consideration to finding a new zip code.

2) People should not vacation in Arizona, organizations should not have their conventions in Arizona.

The people who *own* the businesses in Arizona want to continue doing so. If they begin to feel the pressure, they *will* pressure their government to repeal the bill. That's how strikes and boycotts work. That's why they are used.



I really hear what you're saying. It's a huge step backwards. I understand too, about harrassing people of color simply because of their color. It has happened to members of my own family who live in Arizona and elsewhere. They are citizens too, some of them for generations and some of them are first generation, they all have 'papers' and now they have an added burden of having to carry a shitload of paper around but even larger than the wad of paper is the pervasive fear. This pressure you say business owners should put on the government to change the laws, how does one go about pressuring the government when the legislature is being driven by a corporate machine?

*****

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There was an article that came out a couple of days about about how next door in Nevada they are considering their own version of SB1070.

http://www.nevadaappeal.com/article/...ntProfile=1058 - "2 Nevada lawmakers to push for immigration law"

sooooo..... BOYCOTT ARIZONA and while you're at it, BOYCOTT NEVADA ... and BOYCOTT THE OTHER 20 STATES CONSIDERING SIMILAR MEASURES TO SB1070
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Any state that passes a similar law should have to fear the exact same set of consequences. Perhaps that would give them a moment of pause.


I'm afraid that the results of that could be widespread panic, not a moment of pause.


*****

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in case everyone is unaware, the latest racist policies of arizona are driven by a rigged corporate game. I'll be back with details of that, too. early in the thread, someone named dean robert hit it on the head.
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They may be driven by that and I think that a number of us are aware of it. However, that does not change, substantially, the effects on the ground. Racist laws should have consequences for states that pass them and NOT just the sole consequence that the ethnic minority targeted by them gets to live in fear.


Where you and I differ on "the ground" aspect is that to me, the first order of business is do everything possible to reverse the law. Not engage in fear-mongering and telling people to leave the state and boycott anything/everything Arizonan. Unfortunately, reversing bad law takes time. But hasty decisions such as moving away, or wishing ill consequences on 6 million people is not the answer, for *me*. I understand you have your reasons, and I read them several times to really understand them and know there are no pat answers to a challenge of monumental proportions.

These links tell a little bit about who drove the campaign money machine for brewer, and why:

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/conten...igrants-profit

http://mydd.com/users/restore-fairne...mmigration-law

The states that are eyeing SB1070 are not doing it because they hate illegal immigrants, the Pollyanna in me believes it in my soul. But since they have learned that a majority of "white americans" have this knee jerk reaction to immigration, they go for the lowest common denominator which in this case, also happens to be the largest voting bloc. Whether it's a state bill or a voter initiative, the copy cats know their game better than we do. I can't remember what the statistic is, but in not too many years, whites will be in the minority in the US. During Clinton's presidency (when it looked like queers might actually gain the right to legally wed in a few states), we were blindsided with DOMA. This latest attempt to put people in their place is driven by the same thing: MONEY and PROPERTY RIGHTS.

The other states are probably being wooed by the same corporate interests that are cozy with Jan Brewer. It's all about $$$! I know there is much more truth to come out, and it will be too late for some people


******

[I'mOneToo]

Who decides the consequences? How severe? For whom?

I'm not saying anyone should suffer. In fact, I am saying no one should suffer. No one should have to feel targeted, or feel fear walking or driving or even being seen. Neither should anyone feel superior to anyone else.

I *do* see the frustration on everyone's part.

The most frustrating thing to me is, if all Latino/a's leave Arizona, and all the people of color leave... then that leaves a white only state. Isn't that ethnic cleansing too? Maybe I'm just seeing that completely wrong?

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

Good lord!!


Why would any Latina/o move to a state where being one makes you a TARGET???

I don't understand your logic on this, the boycott SHOULD put a pinch on a State that is and has been allowing it to happen. They are slowly trying to white wash AWAY our cultures with this bill, their ugly no ethnic studies people NADA!

No one has said:

"die Arizonians die"

Now, should they suffer some consequences? Yes, this law is one step closer to ethic cleansing. That's where the frustration lies for me, how you can not see this is odd to me.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Truth is until all the tentacles of systematic racism or any other ism are deeply embedded in white culture, oppressing POC will NEVER stop. So with that being the case this boycott is a voice, each protest is a voice keeping the fight for equality going.

Nothing when it comes to human and civil rights comes without some battle wounds be they economical or not.

Staying silent only kills us off faster.

[I'mOneToo]

Everything has a price, in the end. No one is advocating to kill anyone off faster than someone else, or to silence any one. At least, not me. I have to go for today, but thanks for your thoughts.

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

Truth is until all the tentacles of systematic racism or any other ism are deeply embedded in white culture, oppressing POC will NEVER stop. So with that being the case this boycott is a voice, each protest is a voice keeping the fight for equality going.

Nothing when it comes to human and civil rights comes without some battle wounds be they economical or not.

Staying silent only kills us off faster.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by I'mOneToo

Everything has a price, in the end. No one is advocating to kill anyone off faster than someone else, or to silence any one. At least, not me. I have to go for today, but thanks for your thoughts.

This law clearly marks a group of people for racial profiling, not a far cry for other monstracities to follow.

Make sense?

[Greyson]

Here is a link to the Los Angeles Times which has an entire series dedicated to the drug wars in Mexico, "Mexico Under Seige." The series began in 2008. I have not read every article.

I struggle with what is the answer, remedy to the current global economy and it's impact on humanity. Is there a remedy? Whatever it may be, I am convinced economics are tainted with beliefs that do not play fair. Is human nature capable of consistently playing fair? Can we really shed our fear and judgement?

I suspect that many of us believe we cannot make a huge differance in matters playing across the world stage. I refuse to accept that notion. One thought and action at a time. If nothing else, I can at least pause and extend myself beyond my own personal circumstances at times.

This LA Times series is graphic. You may choose to ignore what is happening right here in North America. I think it is at our collective peril to do so.


http://projects.latimes.com/mexico-drug-war/#/its-a-war

[Kätzchen]

* bump bump *

This forum thread on immigration concerns was once the hottest forum thread to read and participate in. Some of the members who posted here might not be around anymore but by commonly held knowledge on immigration concerns and such, one (myself included) can see how there has been literally not much progress toward fixing immigration policy.

I’m bumping this thread for others to read so people can map out and connect the proverbial dots, best as one can, concerning immigration concerns today— which is at best, the biggest flaw in policies affecting humans in our country and for others across the globe.


I myself mourn the loss of particular members, in the membership here, who no longer participate in very important conversations about policies affecting not only the LGBTQ+ family but also families of non-white composition.