Male ID butch vs. FTM??

Martina · 02-23-2011, 05:57 PM

There is nothing ridiculous about my hypothetical. How hypothetical is a man talking to a woman. I am sure I can walk out my door right now and see an instance of it.

What is ridiculous is the degree to which trans politics seems to want to go to deny that many trans people have male privilege.

i do not doubt that a cis-gender woman talking to a transman has cis-privilege or that she might hurt him accidentally. So you are saying because they both have privilege, that cancels something out and we shouldn't talk about it. Or that we shouldn't talk about it because transmen might feel shamed and they have enough on their plate? How will there be change then?

i am sure that a transman experienes his privilege differenty than a cis-gender man, but I won't experience his sexism differently if he enacts it. It will be the same. Nothing about his background or his struggles will make ME or other women immune from the effects of his behavior if he handles the privilege given to him without care. Even if he just accepts it as his right, he is doing harm.

i have no interest in surrendering my expectation that all men be aware of their privilege in a world as crushingly sexist is ours. i won't modify that expectation for any man. i don't think any of us should. It's not about the man or his background or his personal experiences. It's about the social world we live in.

i will never stop looking at male privilege just because there are other kinds of privilege out there. Is that what you are suggesting women do? That's how women find a way to live in the world, by seeing privilege for what it is and finding ways to navigate through it. That's how men learn to facilitate change and help empower women, through identifying privilege, by SEEING it first, and then finding ways to negate its effects.

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02-23-2011, 05:57 PM	#11
Martina Senior Member How Do You Identify?: * Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: * Posts: 4,999 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 13,409 Thanked 18,286 Times in 4,167 Posts Rep Power: 21474854	There is nothing ridiculous about my hypothetical. How hypothetical is a man talking to a woman. I am sure I can walk out my door right now and see an instance of it. What is ridiculous is the degree to which trans politics seems to want to go to deny that many trans people have male privilege. i do not doubt that a cis-gender woman talking to a transman has cis-privilege or that she might hurt him accidentally. So you are saying because they both have privilege, that cancels something out and we shouldn't talk about it. Or that we shouldn't talk about it because transmen might feel shamed and they have enough on their plate? How will there be change then? i am sure that a transman experienes his privilege differenty than a cis-gender man, but I won't experience his sexism differently if he enacts it. It will be the same. Nothing about his background or his struggles will make ME or other women immune from the effects of his behavior if he handles the privilege given to him without care. Even if he just accepts it as his right, he is doing harm. i have no interest in surrendering my expectation that all men be aware of their privilege in a world as crushingly sexist is ours. i won't modify that expectation for any man. i don't think any of us should. It's not about the man or his background or his personal experiences. It's about the social world we live in. i will never stop looking at male privilege just because there are other kinds of privilege out there. Is that what you are suggesting women do? That's how women find a way to live in the world, by seeing privilege for what it is and finding ways to navigate through it. That's how men learn to facilitate change and help empower women, through identifying privilege, by SEEING it first, and then finding ways to negate its effects.