Trans Men and Butches Raising Femme Daughters.

[Arwen]

Originally Posted by tuffboi29

But to teach her how to be a womyn?

I wish to teach her to be a proud, independent, and respectable WOMYN.

I never understood how to be a womyn. I was never a "lady", although I attempt to teach her lady like qualities that I've observed from womyn (who happen to be femme).

I guess that would be my question. How would I accomplish that when I never truly understood it in the first place?

Honey, first you have to ask yourself if you are trying to fit her into your concept of what a woman is or isn't.

I really admire you for thinking about this for your daughter. I would say teach her to be a good human being first.

What Snow said had chops. You know? Be there for MJ. Listen to her. Make her know that you will always listen.

Hang in there.

[tuffboi29]

Originally Posted by Arwen

Honey, first you have to ask yourself if you are trying to fit her into your concept of what a woman is or isn't.

I really admire you for thinking about this for your daughter. I would say teach her to be a good human being first.

What Snow said had chops. You know? Be there for MJ. Listen to her. Make her know that you will always listen.

Hang in there.

Thank you Arwen.

I am more looking to help her develop into the womyn *she* sees herself as. The one she wishes to be. Tempered, of course, with not only respect, but self respect and self love.

[Jesse]

tuffboi,

I had my three little nieces for three years, each with so very different personalities and needs. One was a real life little feminine princess, another had seemingly strong butch characteristics, and the third was still a baby.

I say honor who they show you they are at that time and be open to changing and growing with them as they discover who they will be. Give her room to be who she needs to be.

Listen to them, truly listen and when you do not understand ask question and listen some more.

Tell her the truth as is age appropriate of course. Just know, they know if you are not truthful to them.

Give her a strong foundation of self, so that no matter who or what she will always know who she is and that she does indeed matter.

Let her know always how proud you are of her and that you are there for her.

[tuffboi29]

Thank you Jessie and everyone else.

I would really like to keep this thread going.

If there are any questions anyone would like to ask or anyone would like to share their own experiences about raising their little girls..the tough times and the good..the lessons they somehow manage to teach US..I would really love to share in those experiences.
Who knows? Maybe we'll all learn something new..

[Lynn]

It sounds like you are doing everything right. Establishing great communication and mutual respect is the foundation of a a positive parenting relationship.

It's always helpful to have positive role models and to keep up with the latest trends. But, I don't think you can teach her to be a womyn any more than you could be taught to be who you are, and how you express yourself, gender-wise. She has innate qualities that you can honor and nurture, but you won't make her who she is. At the same time, you will shape her values and teach her about what's important in life. That doesn't have to do with her femaleness or femininity, it has to do with who she is and who you are, as persons. Stuff like nails and hair are probably the easy things compared to things like how to treat others and how to be true to yourself.

If you tell her, "Shoes don't make the woman," you are imparting a value that isn't about shoes or women, it's about what's important in life. If you set some boundaries about what she can wear at the age of 8, you are teaching her some things about appropriate behavior. When she's 18, maybe she'll take those teachings into consideration! My daughter was given some outfits at that age that I called her "Peg Bundy" outfits. She could only wear them in the house. I don't think I clipped her wings by setting some limits. At 23, she is a creative, expressive, interesting person who wears what she wants.

Wishing you all the best!

[Galahad]

This is a great parenting, teaching, counseling, etc. book and will help you see some of the issues she's going to have to deal with very soon and hopefully help you see ways to help her through.
"Reviving Ophelia- Saving the Selves of Adolescent Girls"

[raising2alone]

Hi all,

This is an awesome topic, I too have a daughter, even though she is only 2, she is decidely feminine. She has a twin brother so it's a balancing act most of the time to nurture them both in whatever direction the day takes them. I must say it has been very enlightening thus far. We all learned in school about nurture versus nature and what pushes our little ones. I have to say it is very much nature to this point. Since I have two seperate genders, I buy toys that they just want, no thought as to if it is a truck or doll. They have equal access to all of them and they have truly gravitated toward what society would consider "gender specific" toys. My daughter loves dolls and my son cars and trains. Being FtM, I have to be careful not to add my own bias when they are playing . We all play with everything, from doll houses to trains, but left alone, they know what they prefer. My daughter is very nurturing and a caretaker and my son is a little self centered...ok, time for the ladies to chime in there...LOL.

Anyway, this will be a great thread to help me as my daughter ages and yes, she will travel many paths as will he and I am blessed already and will love them without judgement and totally unconditionally all of their lives. To me they were spiritual beings long before they came to this earth in their little bodies. I let them explore and ask questions already and they are little sponges.

I want to thank all of the women on here that will become role models if even through cyber space for my daughter as she continues to travel through her journey.....and my son as well. I do firmly believe it takes a village to raise a child so I need many villages . (Also thanking everyone that will post, we can all learn from one another to be sure ).

Peace and blessings all....

[Converse]

Many years ago I developed a relationship with a woman whose toddler, who had been living with her father overseas, came to live with us. She was the most magical child, her speech hadn’t properly developed and she hadn’t learned any English- she had been use to sleeping where and when she liked and ate the same way. A dental check up showed that all of her baby teeth were full of cavities as all she had known was candy and soda.

Her mother abdicated all responsibility, and so although I was happy to support the household so that the little one had a full time parent at home, in truth her raising was left to me. She was introduced to eating utensils and vegetables, a speech therapist, a bed with bedtime stories, the zoo, swimming lessons and surfing and joined the local baseball team – for Christmas she asked Santa for a tool belt like mine, and together we made house repairs and worked on the car. When she needed clothes I took her shopping for comfortable stuff- which in my mind could only be found in the boys sections.

One day her mother said “I’ve just been watching the child playing with her friend- she pulls out her friend’s chair and holds the door open for her. She doesn’t know how to do her hair, and she even walks like you. She has no interest in dresses or nice shoes or in anything remotely feminine- she is older now and you are not the right influence for her, its time for me to be a mother and for you to take a step back.”

I watched the Saturday baseball game be replaced with shopping at the mall, comfortable cargo pants be replaced with spray on jeans, and the sound of a drill replaced with hiphop music and chatter about spas and hair salons- she seemed happy.

The child found a new best friend, whose name was scribbled everywhere, on her school books and bag, I noticed she even had an imitation tattoo of the girls name on her arm. One day I picked them both up from the mall, the friend held open the car door for the child, then walked around the other side to let herself in-the friend looked at me and said “one day I’m going to get my hair cut short like yours and get a leather jacket like yours too and a truck like this one”, the child smiled at me in the rear view mirror.

Shortly afterwards the mother said she didn’t like the child’s new friend, and a little time later she emptied the house and the bank account and left to marry a man. On the phone I was told I wouldn’t be allowed to speak with the child or know where they had moved to, as the child needed to separate from me in order to bond with the new husband and become part of a normal family. I never saw her again.

How much is nurture and how much is nature, I guess we will never know- but I do know that when it was brought to my attention that I didn’t know how to raise a little girl I felt guilty that because I didn’t know about “girl” things I had somehow robbed her of becoming who she was suppose to be. But today, this is what I know, I know that I taught her that anything is possible, and that she was strong enough to do anything- and when I close my eyes and worry about the life she may be living right now- I remember that one day she will be old enough to make her own decisions, and more importantly strong enough to make them, regardless of what anyone has to say about it.

[Soft*Silver]

Originally Posted by tuffboi29

Thank you Arwen.

I am more looking to help her develop into the womyn *she* sees herself as. The one she wishes to be. Tempered, of course, with not only respect, but self respect and self love.

In raising my daughter I decided to give her a feminist upbringing. no pink toys. She got dolls and trucks. Building toys as well as baby buggies. I did not allow barbies.I thought they delivered the wrong message.
So what did my daughter want? Beg for? Cry for? Ask for at every gift buying occassion? I went to social anthropology professor and asked him what to do. (why him? Because he taught me that values are passed on thru the socialization process which occurs with unconcious integration of the culture's set of beliefs and values from birth to the day of death from everything they encounter through their senses, through their family of origin, their extended family, schools, churches, neighborhoods, peer groups, media, etc.) He explained I didnt need to exclude Barbie from her. I could give her Barbie, but i needed to explain that no woman has a waist that size nor has feet that stays like that, nor are women nippleless nor are men penis-less, and fashion doesnt make a woman, etc. I breathed a sigh of relief and soon my daughter had a barbie and within two years she had a pink room, and in five years she had 50 barbies. Did that make her a weak knot head? Hell no. She is a spit fire and could take on any chauvenist and has battled homophobia on playgrounds, transphobia in her classrooms as a student teacher and classism and racism in her first permanent kinderrgarten class. Barbie didnt do her in. She became her own woman by wanting what she wanted AND by me socializing her well. Its team work....

[greeneyedgrrl]

Originally Posted by tuffboi29

I am more looking to help her develop into the womyn *she* sees herself as. The one she wishes to be. Tempered, of course, with not only respect, but self respect and self love.

you don't have to know all things womon and femme, just keep supporting her and allow her to be who she is... just listen, she'll tell you!

it sounds like you're doing a great job helping her to be strong and confident.