Head-Spinning Political Shit!

[iamkeri1]

Politics have always been intrinsic to the Catholic religion, but is no means exclusive to them. The truly dangerous part of any religious involvement is the ability of that institution to "evil-ize" that of which they do not approve.

Of the prohibitions in Leviticus (Old Testament of the Christian Bible) in which the prohibitions against homosexuality are included, many are no longer considered necessary or important. Pork is not prohibited to Christians, nor are shellfish. We are not restricted to a small number of steps to be taken on the sabbath, and no one has been stoned lately for adultery (well at least not in Christian oriented nations.)

Yet, selectively, for reasons more political than religious, the horror over the "abomination" of homosexuality is still in fashion. Persecution of homosexuals (and other sexual variants) is still justified by various religious institutions. "God hates homosexuality" is a phrase you will find written on protestors signs at any gay function. Many other groups; disables folks, welfare recipients, unemployed people, homeless people, and poor people in general face religious predjudice which seeks to marginalize them.

Religion as politics is dangerous, damaging, and destructive.

Smooches,
Keri

[iamkeri1]

My head has been spinning again over this Congressman Weiner sex scandal (if you can dignify it with that name.) I have always liked the congressman. He is pretty liberal, and her doesn't mind getting into it with conservatives. When the story first broke I was pissed at his stupidity. And of course I figured his first version was a lie, so I was waiting for the other shoe to drop. So far the only thing to drop has been more like a fuzzy sock. The worst they have on him so far is the belief that he sent a picture of his pee pee out on the internet to adult women with whom he was already being overly friendly. He will neither confirm or deny, because it is rumored to be the picture of a rather large (and attractive?) peepee, and he doesn't want to give up the "rep". The Democrats are calling loud and long for his resignation (Of course the Republicans are doing the same, but they are the opposition, that makes sense.)

What the man did was stupid, but certainly not unusual. (nor illegal per se) Almost all of my straight women friends have received an unsolicited pee pee picture from some man they are communicating with online.

Personally I think he should not resign. We need the liberal vote in congress, and I don't want to lose this representative who can push the Republicans around (a little anyway.)

Anyone else have a take on this subject?
Smooches,
Keri

[MsDemeanor]

I'm pissed at the democrats and their race to see who can throw him farthest under the bus. It's between him and the people who voted for him. The only appropriate response for a democratic representative to "do you think he should resign" is "when Vitter goes then I might consider it". As for the new republican scum tactic of demanding that democrats give back/away money that Weiner donated to them, the only appropriate response to the republicans is "let's take a look at your donations first".

IMHO, of course.

[dreadgeek]

Originally Posted by MsDemeanor

I'm pissed at the democrats and their race to see who can throw him farthest under the bus. It's between him and the people who voted for him. The only appropriate response for a democratic representative to "do you think he should resign" is "when Vitter goes then I might consider it". As for the new republican scum tactic of demanding that democrats give back/away money that Weiner donated to them, the only appropriate response to the republicans is "let's take a look at your donations first".

IMHO, of course.

The next time someone looks at you askance when excoriating the Democratic party for cowardice remind them of this--this isn't about principle. If it were about the principle of not cheating on spouses then the congress would be so completely denuded of men that both houses would put and observer in mind of the Michigan Women's Music Festival. This isn't even about political exposure because if the Republicans bring up Weiner's stupidity (and what he did was stupid, not the cheating but the thinking that he could get away with lying about the Twitter pics) the Democrats have six simple words they can use. They are: John Ensign, David Vitter and Larry Craig. No one called on them to resign and Vitter is still serving. No, this is simple cowardice. It's the only reason. What Weiner did is between him and his wife and has no bearing, what-so-ever, on his ability to conduct the Peoples' business.

Cheers
Aj

[iamkeri1]

I will go even further to say that I think the democratic response should be, "I (we) support Weiner. He is a Democrat. He is one of us. We all make mistakes. He has been legally elected by the people of New York. That's good enough for me (us). I (we) believe the situation will quickly be resolved in his favor. Now lets get back to solving important problems like balancing the budget without detroying medicare"

That's my 2 cents worth.
Smooches,
Keri

[BullDog]

Interesting perspective from a long time Republican politician in Florida:

http://www.chronicleonline.com/conte...-you-may-think

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by BullDog

Interesting perspective from a long time Republican politician in Florida:

http://www.chronicleonline.com/conte...-you-may-think

She is a Republican of the type and kind I remember prior to the religious right buying off the GOP.

[dreadgeek]

Originally Posted by BullDog

Interesting perspective from a long time Republican politician in Florida:

http://www.chronicleonline.com/conte...-you-may-think

This was a fantastic article! It doesn't articulate why I left the Republican party--to understand that one need do no more than look at how the GOP has increasingly used racist language and imagery to win election and how they have used anti-gay rhetoric and imagery to consolidate their political gains--but it does articulate why there is nothing that the Republican party, as currently constituted, could do to regain my vote.

As long as their electoral coalition is based upon nativism, xenophobia, coded appeals to racism, overt appeals to anti-gay bigotry, and theocratic leanings that give aid and comfort to the partisans of anti-science and anti-reason in society, the Republicans can't win my vote. The problem, of course, is that the very people who could get the GOP to rethink their current doom-ridden course have been expelled from the party.

Cheers
Aj

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by dreadgeek

The next time someone looks at you askance when excoriating the Democratic party for cowardice remind them of this--this isn't about principle. If it were about the principle of not cheating on spouses then the congress would be so completely denuded of men that both houses would put and observer in mind of the Michigan Women's Music Festival. This isn't even about political exposure because if the Republicans bring up Weiner's stupidity (and what he did was stupid, not the cheating but the thinking that he could get away with lying about the Twitter pics) the Democrats have six simple words they can use. They are: John Ensign, David Vitter and Larry Craig. No one called on them to resign and Vitter is still serving. No, this is simple cowardice. It's the only reason. What Weiner did is between him and his wife and has no bearing, what-so-ever, on his ability to conduct the Peoples' business.

Cheers
Aj

I agree unless there was contact with a minor and an exchange of sexual banter, etc. A story is floating around that one of the women he engaged in this behavior with is 17. If true, it really could blow up on a whole new dimension. Hopefully, not any criminal charges. From what I could discern from Wasserman-Schultz's appearance on Meet the Press yesterday, this new bit of information about a minor sent her to the side of asking him to resign.

Yes, like MsDemeanor, I am outraged at any GOP member even saying one damn thing about Weiner while Craig & Vitter remain in Congress. And it does look like his actual district constituents remain behind him to represent them. They are the ones to decide if they want to re-elect him. He does their district business- if they are happy with his work, he will remain in office. Sounds like he wants to run for NY CMayor- have no idea if this would really hurt his chances. NYC is a liberal city- who knows.

I do think that there is a possibility of Weiner having a form of a sex addiction- and I get really tired of people not recognizing that this can really mess up someone's life- no matter what they do for a living. His entering a treatment program might be a political ply, but maybe not. And if he is dealing with a sex addiction and wants to work through it, I say good for him.

I don't have any problems with sexting, phone sex, sexy or suggestive pics, etc. as many, many couples engage in this behavior. Consequently, doing so outside of marriage or a relationship could be a form of infidelity. Depends on the couple and how they set-up their relationship boundaries. On the other hand, it can be a very sexy way to interact with the one you love- especially when you have long absences. I am also tired of the right-wing “moral police” making this kind of sexual expression sound creepy and "abnormal." It isn't- but doing it as a high risk behavior that might ruin your marriage or get you fired, is the same as an alcoholic losing everything due to alcohol addiction. Again, I have no idea if Weiner is dealing with addiction. However, just his not thinking about the possibility that engaging with women online in social network sites COULD lead to interacting with someone under 18- IS risky behavior and not what I would expect of a someone with Weiner’s intelligence. Does not compute to me.

I think the Dems could have dealt with this differently and just stuck with "no comment." I didn't like that some were pouncing on Weiner before facts were uncovered. I keep reading tid-bits that some of this is due to Weiner not being all that well liked by his colleagues. He isn't much of a "team player". Actually, that is one reason I have always liked him- he would shake things up from a more progressive viewpoint.

I don't want to see the more progressive thinking House (or Senate) members leaving- Kucinich may be forced out due to re-districting and he is another very out spoken progressive member that we need in the House.

If there is no truth to the interaction with a minor, I think this will blow over and Weiner will remain in his seat. 2012 is far enough away that this won't have some of the effects that the whole Mark Foley thing did on the GOP during a general election.

Yes, whatever he and his wife have determined within their marriage to be OK, is their business. But he is a public figure and they ought to know that there are right-wing zealots all over the internet just waiting to catch a liberal or progressive member of Congress in some kind of scandalous behavior. This is where I see a lapse in judgment.

[dreadgeek]

Originally Posted by AtLastHome

I agree unless there was contact with a minor and an exchange of sexual banter, etc. A story is floating around that one of the women he engaged in this behavior with is 17. If true, it really could blow up on a whole new dimension. Hopefully, not any criminal charges. From what I could discern from Wasserman-Schultz's appearance on Meet the Press yesterday, this new bit of information about a minor sent her to the side of asking him to resign.

If Weiner sent a text to a minor then he's committed a crime and should, of course, resign and then be sent to trial. However, provided that he sent pictures to women who were of the age of majority in their location then what he did was his own private concern and the less I know about it the happier I'll be.

Yes, like MsDemeanor, I am outraged at any GOP member even saying one damn thing about Weiner while Craig & Vitter remain in Congress. And it does look like his actual district constituents remain behind him to represent them. They are the ones to decide if they want to re-elect him. He does their district business- if they are happy with his work, he will remain in office. Sounds like he wants to run for NY CMayor- have no idea if this would really hurt his chances. NYC is a liberal city- who knows.

Two words, Rudy Giuliani---if Weiner runs for mayor, he'll be fine.

I do think that there is a possibility of Weiner having a form of a sex addiction- and I get really tired of people not recognizing that this can really mess up someone's life- no matter what they do for a living. His entering a treatment program might be a political ply, but maybe not. And if he is dealing with a sex addiction and wants to work through it, I say good for him.

Certainly, bully for him if he is sex-addicted. I am, however, a little less sanguine about the claims of sex addiction for every third pol who gets caught with his pants down. Just once, to break up the monotony, I'd like to see a politician admit the mistake and move on. No invocation of sex addiction, no talking about how he needs to get right with this or that god, just "I messed up. I let down my wife, I'm sorry. I let down my kids, my apologies. I let down my constituents who trusted me to keep my nose to the grindstone and not make stupid mistakes like this--and this was a stupid mistake" and then move on with their lives. It probably won't happen in my lifetime but it would be nice, just to break things up a bit mind you.

I think the Dems could have dealt with this differently and just stuck with "no comment." I didn't like that some were pouncing on Weiner before facts were uncovered. I keep reading tid-bits that some of this is due to Weiner not being all that well liked by his colleagues. He isn't much of a "team player". Actually, that is one reason I have always liked him- he would shake things up from a more progressive viewpoint.

Weiner is definitely the kind of liberal I think we need more of in elected office in that he is not afraid to actually stand up for something. It helps that he and I are on the same page on a number of issues.

I don't want to see the more progressive thinking House (or Senate) members leaving- Kucinich may be forced out due to re-districting and he is another very out spoken progressive member that we need in the House.

While I have no desire for the Democratic congressional delegation to get smaller, Kucinich is not my favorite liberal. I find him unrealistic on foreign policy--not just that I disagree with him, I can disagree with someone on foreign policy but still think they are realistic--in that he seems to be dealing with a completely different species of humans on a completely different planet.

Cheers
Adrienne

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by dreadgeek

If Weiner sent a text to a minor then he's committed a crime and should, of course, resign and then be sent to trial. However, provided that he sent pictures to women who were of the age of majority in their location then what he did was his own private concern and the less I know about it the happier I'll be.



Two words, Rudy Giuliani---if Weiner runs for mayor, he'll be fine.



Certainly, bully for him if he is sex-addicted. I am, however, a little less sanguine about the claims of sex addiction for every third pol who gets caught with his pants down. Just once, to break up the monotony, I'd like to see a politician admit the mistake and move on. No invocation of sex addiction, no talking about how he needs to get right with this or that god, just "I messed up. I let down my wife, I'm sorry. I let down my kids, my apologies. I let down my constituents who trusted me to keep my nose to the grindstone and not make stupid mistakes like this--and this was a stupid mistake" and then move on with their lives. It probably won't happen in my lifetime but it would be nice, just to break things up a bit mind you.



Weiner is definitely the kind of liberal I think we need more of in elected office in that he is not afraid to actually stand up for something. It helps that he and I are on the same page on a number of issues.



While I have no desire for the Democratic congressional delegation to get smaller, Kucinich is not my favorite liberal. I find him unrealistic on foreign policy--not just that I disagree with him, I can disagree with someone on foreign policy but still think they are realistic--in that he seems to be dealing with a completely different species of humans on a completely different planet.

Cheers
Adrienne

Yes, sometimes Kucinich can be out there.

Yes, I think Weiner sticks to his guns and like that about him. And YES, to a point I agree with what you say about him just saying "I did it, I apologize"- which I wish he had just done at the start of the whole matter. But, I guess the behavioral scientist in me wants understanding of sexual addiction and its negative effects in our society. It seems that most people just pass it off as psycho-babble when it is a real addiction and can really ruin someone’s life. There is some good neuro-physiological work in human behavior concerning propensity for in risk taking that might shed a lot of light on sex addiction behaviors.

But, I do understand how annoying it can get that so many politicians and celebrities get caught in some scandal, then say "I'm sorry, I have an addiction and I'm going into treatment for it." It has become standard operating procedure for damage control- which contributes to the proliferation of the general population simply hearing "I'm going into treatment" as "the big gun consultants tell me this will work in getting the public to forgive me."

Thus far, the claims of his involvement with any minor seem to be false and quite possibly a product of the very same right-wingers that police social network sites in hopes of catching liberals and progressives at something they can project as immoral in some fashion. I’m sure liberal/progressive folks do the same thing to uncover any conservative/far-right folks, too. The internet has changed the campaigning in may ways- some good, some ugly. I would exercise the utmost caution as a politician online.