Big Girl Love

[hippieflowergirl]

Originally Posted by Gemme

I'm conflicted with what you are saying, Kathlene. On one hand, I watch ANTM and have been very happy to see that Tyra has actively selected and promoted girls who do not fit the "model" stereotype. I loved that Whitney won her season too. So, in that particular situation, I think this is a wonderful thing.

However, I see your point that, even though it's a good thing (above), our viewpoint of what is and is not obese or normal or plus-size is very distorted.

I'm not someone who may be 'qualified' per se to discuss my personal body issues here (though I LOVED what June said about body issues coming in all sizes), but those who are struggling, please know that, no matter what you see around you, you are not alone.

hi Gemme-a-roo!

i think Whitney is drop dead gorgeous! i should be so plus sized! i'm glad that she won ANTM at a size 10 but i hate that she's called a "plus sized model" when she's 2 sizes smaller than the average american woman (who is typically a size 14. (i hear 12 to 14 is the median). the words posted under her photo arent mine. (hence the quotes)

having worked in high end fashion i've watched the sizes assigned to women's clothing fluctuate into something almost unrecognizable. some time in the early tomid-90s the fit standard we were used to downsized...in other words a size 12 became a size 10, a size 6 became a size 4 and etc. the sizing shift didnt take place globally by any means. so if you're a size 8 in the US you may not be a size 8 elsewhere. there is no single standard for women's clothing. men's clothing has something close to stability with regard to sizing because much of what they wear is based on waist and chest size in inches (in the US anyway) and sized that way (i.e.: jeans come in waist/length denominations like 36/34 and so on, jackets & suits are measured and/or tailored based on actual measurements rather than on random numbers like "size 8").

~~~~~~~~~

on other fronts....why fat? why is THAT so important? it's the same as having brown hair. or being short. or whatever. it's superficial. it has absolutely nothing to do with the worth of a person any more than gender, race, culture of origin, sexuality has.

so what's the scoop? are we so pathetic a species that we feel better about dragging others down in order to pull ourselves up than we do about tending to the cultivation of our own characters and leaving that of others alone?

really?

[Gemme]

Originally Posted by hippieflowergirl

hi Gemme-a-roo!

i think Whitney is drop dead gorgeous! i should be so plus sized! i'm glad that she won ANTM at a size 10 but i hate that she's called a "plus sized model" when she's 2 sizes smaller than the average american woman (who is typically a size 14. (i hear 12 to 14 is the median). the words posted under her photo arent mine. (hence the quotes)

Ah, Hell. I need new glasses. I saw the quotes, but didn't 'seeeeee' the quotes, yanno? Sight? One. Comprehension? Zip.

~~~~~~~~~

on other fronts....why fat? why is THAT so important? it's the same as having brown hair. or being short. or whatever. it's superficial. it has absolutely nothing to do with the worth of a person any more than gender, race, culture of origin, sexuality has.

so what's the scoop? are we so pathetic a species that we feel better about dragging others down in order to pull ourselves up than we do about tending to the cultivation of our own characters and leaving that of others alone?

really?

Um, yes. The human race has many good qualities such as the capacity to love, to have kindness and compassion, to protect fiercely and to maintain honor and integrity. Having said that, we eat our young, our families, our friends, our coworkers, our roommates as well as complete strangers.

Of course, this is a generalization and I realize that there are completely respectable people out there who don't make a practice out of putting others down or stepping onto the bent backs of others, but damn near everyone I know.....myself included....has done that to someone at least once. We may have thought it was justified at the time or maybe just didn't care, but that is how many function on a regular basis. How they evaluate themselves is based solely on their place in the hierarchy of wherever they are...work, home, church (the irony, right?)...and the appearance of someone who doesn't fit in that individual's world just so sticks out and attracts their negative attention like blood in the water for sharks.

That person may be brilliant (a heart surgeon, maybe) or honorable (Purple Heart recipient, perhaps) or beautiful (Miss USA, 1989, possibly) but if that person is super curvy, then that is all they see. So many people don't see past the exterior.

Or maybe it's that they see a reflection of themself somehow and attack the other person because of their self-loathing in a twisted effort to eliminate or shrink whatever it is about them that they hate....or maybe I need to put down the psych book and stop thinking about what's in someone else's head. *shrug*

[Andrew, Jr.]

Jack,

You are one very lucky guy to have Medusa for a wife!

I am a very heavy guy. I used to be very thin, but I took steroids for a couple of years for pneum. and bronch., and the after effects of that. I gained all my weight then. I was always called fat. I know how demeaning it is. I know what it's like to be pointed at in public, or staired at. Not only am I fat, but a ftm and I'm slow, and it is very obvious to the public. Society sucks when it comes to weight issues. So does the medical community.

Personally, I like women with curves. They rock my world!

[HeartBreak Kid]

Phenomenal Woman ~Maya Angelou~

Pretty women wonder where my secret lies.
I'm not cute or built to suit a fashion model's size
But when I start to tell them,
They think I'm telling lies.
I say,
It's in the reach of my arms
The span of my hips,
The stride of my step,
The curl of my lips.
I'm a woman
Phenomenally.
Phenomenal woman,
That's me.
I walk into a room
Just as cool as you please,
And to a man,
The fellows stand or
Fall down on their knees.
Then they swarm around me,
A hive of honey bees.
I say,
It's the fire in my eyes,
And the flash of my teeth,
The swing in my waist,
And the joy in my feet.
I'm a woman
Phenomenally.
Phenomenal woman,
That's me.

Men themselves have wondered
What they see in me.
They try so much
But they can't touch
My inner mystery.
When I try to show them
They say they still can't see.
I say,
It's in the arch of my back,
The sun of my smile,
The ride of my breasts,
The grace of my style.

I'm a woman
Phenomenally.
Phenomenal woman,
That's me.

Now you understand
Just why my head's not bowed.
I don't shout or jump about
Or have to talk real loud.
When you see me passing
It ought to make you proud.
I say,
It's in the click of my heels,
The bend of my hair,
the palm of my hand,
The need of my care,
'Cause I'm a woman
Phenomenally.
Phenomenal woman,
That's me.

Peace and Love

[Medusa]

PREACH!

Every time I read this poem, I hear it being read back to me in Janet Jackson's voice in my head from the time I saw the movie "Poetic Justice".

One of my favorites!

[Leigh]

I just came in tonight to show My love for bigger women

To all the beautiful BBW ladies that rawk our world, thank you for simply being you

[Lynn]

I just have a couple of disparate thoughts after reading the thread and looking at some others, too.

1. This discussion is, for me, about self-image and self-validation. Someone who is "only" ten or twenty pounds overweight (or pick a number) shouldn't be maligned or dismissed for seeing themselves in this discussion. I don't think it's really about a number, per se, as much as a broader discussion of self-perception and how that affects how we are seen in the world. At 5'ish tall, I'd personally be quite pleased to be in a size 12, even though that would likely mean that, by all accounts, I'd still be significantly overweight. How big does big have to be to qualify to be able to relate to feeling self-hatred and experiencing the derision of others?

2. I haven't quite reconciled these two beliefs:
-We should not be criticized for having sexual and romantic preferences. Attraction is a personal thing and I have no right to judge others as I believe they have no business judging me.
-The inability or unwillingness to view me for who I am, not what I look like, is hateful and unacceptable.

3. As much as I think (in my brain) that it's very nice that some butches are posting things about how wonderful big femmes are, my guts tend to churn. Not sure why. Maybe something to do with the idea that this reinforces the idea that women are supposed to be shored up from the outside, by the validation and acceptance of others, rather than learning how to do this for themselves, from the inside out. I'd rather be engaged in an intelligent discussion about something I share with another person than to be told, kind of wholesale, that I am one of the rockin' big, beautiful women. Sorry. It makes me go "ewww," which I own as my problem.