Casey Anthony - guilty, or not?

[Kobi]

Now that the jury is free to speak if they choose too, it will be interesting to hear them explain why they saw this the way they did.

It is disconcerting to see so many people judging them, accusing them, second guessing them without waiting to hear their side of the story. They were there, we werent.

They werent bombarded with the conjecture of every lawyer the media could find, the thoughts of all these legal pundits, the thoughts of anyone who wished to venture an opinion. They just had the facts presented in the court.

But somehow us armchair jurors know better? We somehow know the truth? We somehow are endowed with special powers to know what happened and who was responsible? And we know this beyond a shadow of a doubt?

I understand the anger at a perceived injustice. I understand wanting justice for this innocent child. I understand the many ways in which disappointment can be expressed. I'm also kind of familiar with that can occur after a case like this.

Justice isnt perfect. People arent perfect. Prosecutors make mistakes. Defense attorneys get lucky. It's life. It sucks. But its reality.

Emotions, running amok, in the name of justice leads to things like death threats, assaults, lynchings, war, and other vigilante actions.

Sometimes, taking a step back, and a deep breath leads to a cooler head, calmer emotions, and more rational thought.

Less drama, more thought....what a novel idea.

[The_Lady_Snow]

I'm perfectly ok shedding a tear and mourning the death of an innocent child, and glad we can all come in here together and do so if we wish without fingerwagging.

[Corkey]

And while I have respect for the law, I do mourn the loss of a truly innocent child.

[princessbelle]

Kobi,


With all due respect....

I don't believe people posting here that we feel that a murderer was set free by a "not guilty" verdict is equating in any way to death threats or lynching.

The jury made their decision based on what the law instructed. We all know this. Doesn't explain the why, just the how.

Some of us are upset due to the idea that a woman who killed her child is going to walk. Justifiably so.

Talking about this issues is healthy IMO. Communication with others, and not a singular thought of sadness held within, is how some of us deal with the dissatisfaction of our justice system which failed miserably IMO today.

Nothing unhealthy about discussion.

[Kobi]

Originally Posted by princessbelle

Kobi,


With all due respect....

I don't believe people posting here that we feel that a murderer was set free by a "not guilty" verdict is equating in any way to death threats or lynching.

The jury made their decision based on what the law instructed. We all know this. Doesn't explain the why, just the how.

Some of us are upset due to the idea that a woman who killed her child is going to walk. Justifiably so.

Talking about this issues is healthy IMO. Communication with others, and not a singular thought of sadness held within, is how some of us deal with the dissatisfaction of our justice system which failed miserably IMO today.

Nothing unhealthy about discussion.

princessbelle,

With all due respect, the woman was tried and found not guilty.

Even saying in your opinion that a "murderer was set free" is not healthy discourse. She was not proven to be a murderer. Saying she is one is deliberately inflammatory and drama provoking.

I have seen this dynamic run amok before under the guise of healthy discourse. I saw it when Michael Vick returned to the NFL and was praised by the President. Suddenly a man who was tried, convicted, and served his time needed to be raked over the coals in a very unnice way cuz people were disappointed with Obama's words on Vick.

I saw it with the "victims of the Superbowl". I saw it with bullying, saw it in "a site unexamined".

Ya'll have a thing for drama and anger. That isnt healthy discourse. Thats just drama and rage.

But we can agree to disagree.

[Queerasfck]

Originally Posted by Kobi

princessbelle,

With all due respect, the woman was tried and found not guilty.

Even saying in your opinion that a "murderer was set free" is not healthy discourse. She was not proven to be a murderer. Saying she is one is deliberately inflammatory and drama provoking.

I have seen this dynamic run amok before under the guise of healthy discourse. I saw it when Michael Vick returned to the NFL and was praised by the President. Suddenly a man who was tried, convicted, and served his time needed to be raked over the coals in a very unnice way cuz people were disappointed with Obama's words on Vick.

I saw it with the "victims of the Superbowl". I saw it with bullying, saw it in "a site unexamined".

Ya'll have a thing for drama and anger. That isnt healthy discourse. Thats just drama and rage.

But we can agree to disagree.

Well this seems like shit stirring to me. And very unhealthy behavior.

[Dude]

then there's this pesky thing called justified anger
which to me is not about drama at all but real life

[Mister Bent]

Originally Posted by Kobi

Ya'll have a thing for drama and anger. That isnt healthy discourse. Thats just drama and rage.

To whom, exactly, does this refer?

[Semantics]

Originally Posted by Kobi

princessbelle,

With all due respect, the woman was tried and found not guilty.

Even saying in your opinion that a "murderer was set free" is not healthy discourse. She was not proven to be a murderer. Saying she is one is deliberately inflammatory and drama provoking.

I have seen this dynamic run amok before under the guise of healthy discourse. I saw it when Michael Vick returned to the NFL and was praised by the President. Suddenly a man who was tried, convicted, and served his time needed to be raked over the coals in a very unnice way cuz people were disappointed with Obama's words on Vick.

I saw it with the "victims of the Superbowl". I saw it with bullying, saw it in "a site unexamined".

Ya'll have a thing for drama and anger. That isnt healthy discourse. Thats just drama and rage.

But we can agree to disagree.

Why is it that people have to come in and try and parent other adults?

That's not really offering healthy discourse. It's silencing.

Originally Posted by Kobi

With all due respect,

Originally Posted by Kobi

Ya'll have a thing for drama and anger. That isnt healthy discourse. Thats just drama and rage.

I saw very little drama and rage and plenty of thoughtful discussion.

The drama I saw was someone (you) coming in and starting off a lecturing post with "with all due respect" and then accusing the rest of us (I assume that's what you meant by ya'll) of being dramatic and full of rage.

What's also strange is that you directed it at a member who is neither dramatic or full of rage, so it looks like you're just annoyed in general and may have been looking for an opportunity to get it off your mind.

I'm sure you can consider your opinion noted.

[Novelafemme]

Casey's actions after the fact can't be ignored. Someone dumped her body like trash. Someone drove around with her dead body in Casey's car. Someone put duct tape on her mouth. If it was truly an accident, she wouldn't have been out partying like nothing was wrong.

If your kid goes missing for 30 minutes and you don't report it you're a bad parent. 30 days and you go partying and never report it, you most likely killed her - sometimes written law sucks and common sense must take over.

[NJFemmie]

Originally Posted by Novelafemme

Casey's actions after the fact can't be ignored. Someone dumped her body like trash. Someone drove around with her dead body in Casey's car. Someone put duct tape on her mouth. If it was truly an accident, she wouldn't have been out partying like nothing was wrong.

If your kid goes missing for 30 minutes and you don't report it you're a bad parent. 30 days and you go partying and never report it, you most likely killed her - sometimes written law sucks and common sense must take over.

....even if it was an accident, and this body was dumped somewhere to maybe hide the fact that you are a negligent parent ....

Remember - Casey lied about having a job - she took it further to claim that this imaginary job gave her a promotion that would require her to work nights - just so she could go out and party. Cindy (her mother) expressed that she was getting a little tired of being used as a constant babysitter ... Casey didn't want to own up to her responsibility as a parent .... Casey had some decisions to make.

Originally Posted by Kobi

With all due respect, the woman was tried and found not guilty.

Even saying in your opinion that a "murderer was set free" is not healthy discourse. She was not proven to be a murderer. Saying she is one is deliberately inflammatory and drama provoking.

Ya'll have a thing for drama and anger. That isnt healthy discourse. Thats just drama and rage.

It doesn't take rocket science to do simple math. She may have been found not guilty, and for all intents and purposes, the jury says she is not a murderer. Why is it that most people in this country (and around the world) feel otherwise?

Yes, there are judgments, heated emotions, anger and disappointment in the way this case played out. Normally, I myself try not to let certain things get to me - and I don't consider myself a drama mama - but when it comes to baby and animal abuse - I go insane with anger - and admittingly, sometimes rage. But you know what? Expressing it is normal. Venting is normal. Sharing it is normal. What is unhealthy is not letting it out if it affects you in such a way. If you aren't affected by anything in the same manner as someone else, that's totally fine but I don't believe it necessary to tell someone to tone it down unless they are totally out of control and intentionally hurting someone else because of misdirected emotion. And I certainly don't think it's ok to tell someone how and what they should think, or how they should feel about it.

[princessbelle]

Originally Posted by Kobi

princessbelle,

With all due respect, the woman was tried and found not guilty.

Even saying in your opinion that a "murderer was set free" is not healthy discourse. She was not proven to be a murderer. Saying she is one is deliberately inflammatory and drama provoking.

I have seen this dynamic run amok before under the guise of healthy discourse. I saw it when Michael Vick returned to the NFL and was praised by the President. Suddenly a man who was tried, convicted, and served his time needed to be raked over the coals in a very unnice way cuz people were disappointed with Obama's words on Vick.

I saw it with the "victims of the Superbowl". I saw it with bullying, saw it in "a site unexamined".

Ya'll have a thing for drama and anger. That isnt healthy discourse. Thats just drama and rage.

But we can agree to disagree.

Kobi,

I was truly trying to be considerate when i responded to you and stick to the thread's OP.

However, you are wrong. We don't have to agree on anything.

Our United States Judicial System must adhere to strict guidelines especially in capital murdur cases. Being found "not guilty" is not the same as being found innocent. Many times due to information being withheld from jurors over mistakes on obtaining evidence and so forth, jurors have caused many people to be sent to jail who were innocent as well as some that are free that are guilty. That, is a fact.

I believe this woman killed her child. I have that right to believe that. It is not drama provoking at all. It is MY opinion. There are lots of opinions here.

What is unhealthy is belittling MY opinion, accusing ME of unhealthy discourse and saying "ya'll" have a thing for anger and drama.

Pretty sure we were doing fine before you told "us" to take a deep breath and have calmer emotions. Pretty sure i don't need someone else to tell me how i feel. Pretty sure my emotions were and are in check.

I'm just upset at what happened today. If you don't agree with what i say, so be it. At this point, I truly don't give a flying fuck.

As far as what you just said trying to rip me a new one?

I did not deserve that.

VERY UNCOOL.

I'm done with this little blah blah...

On with the topic....

[Dude]

a bumper sticker thought

If you're not outraged you're not paying attention.

[BullDog]

I do agree that our legal system- like all of our social institutions and culture- is racist. I have no doubt in mind that the way this case was discussed in the media would have been far different if the mother was a woman of color. The outcome of the case could have very well been different as well.

I do feel the jury was in a tough spot. The standard of Reasonable Doubt does need to be high to protect the innocent. People of color are also the most likely to be falsely accused of crimes.

I remember watching the O.J. Simpson case. I followed it quite closely. I was absolutely convinced he killed his former wife. To this day I don't understand how anyone could kill the mother of his children. However I also remember thinking to myself if I had been on that jury I don't know if I could have voted to convict him even though I was absolutely convinced he did kill her. There were too many holes in the case, too much evidence not handled properly, etc. It sounds like in this case there may have been too much reasonable doubt to convict her of first degree murder, but I also agree there should have been other charges other than first degree murder that she could have been charged with. I don't know what caused this. Several factors no doubt. I don't understand why she wasn't convicted of child abuse or manslaughter.

The Standard of Reasonable Doubt does get abused. On the murder trial I was on the man accused of murder had a rich father and he had two very talented attorneys. Weeks were spent going over this man's whole life story and how bad it had been for him. I think there should be limits to how much of a person's life story gets brought into play. We all have to be responsible adults, especially if we are the parent or guardian of a child.

Much of what goes on in a courtroom is actually quite theatrical. The cases don't come to trial for many months or many years. It's not hard for a talented attorney to cast doubt on what someone says on the witness stand. There's lots of back and forth between the attorneys which the jury is instructed to ignore. You can be in the courtroom for ten minutes and then told to leave and have that same thing happen several times in one day. It's all very choppy. Things are thrown out that you are supposed to pretend you didn't hear. Members of the jury are "courted" through eye contact, friendly smiles, etc. As a juror who is trying to do your job you just want to get down to the relevant facts. It can be quite frustrating.

I do think our legal system is quite flawed, but I have served on a jury and would do so again if called. I also vote. I do what I can. There are people in this world who do not have the legal and political rights that we have in the United States. As a white person I certainly do have rights and privileges that people of color do not have. I am not sure what can be done about our legal system. I do agree it is quite flawed, but part me still does believe in a jury system of some kind.

I do mourn for the loss of this child and for all children who are killed, harmed or neglected in any way. I support those who are expressing your outrage and grief. I do understand.