Being perceived as ditzy, flaky or shallow for being femme

[Star Anise]

After all these comments reminding me to be true to myself and "fuck 'em" if they can't accept me for who I am (which for the most part I tend to think) I am wondering exactly what got me into such an upset state the other night.

Possibly it is lingering loneliness and the fact that I am still recovering from a recent break up...

If I am really honest with myself, I will admit that I do sort of "lose myself" in relationships, as I shape myself for the other person, allow them define me. Then at some later point freak out because I don't know who I am any more.

This femme style, particularly the style I have when I am single seems the most "natural" to me, I always come back to it regardless of how I experiment. I could speculate that perhaps it is due to the fact that when I was a child, I was my mother's personal life size doll to dress as she saw fit. She set out my "outfits" for me right up to my early teens, and it was just so much easier to let her than to face her disappointment and sulking.

When I was invited to “play dates” I was dressed in a very “girly” dessert-like creation when the other kids wore t-shirts and jeans etc. I couldn’t play the rough games as it might ruin my good clothes so I would sit around like some fragile doll on the shelf.

Some might argue that perhaps this would cause me to rebel, and do the opposite now, dress butch and deny that part of my upbringing.
Or perhaps it is that I want to finally get to play in my “costume” and potentially get it “mussed up.”


I tend to think that everyone has an intentional expression with regards to their clothes, and I think that along with our personalities there are conditioned aspects from a myriad of external sources. Unless one is raised completely isolated, I don’t think anyone can claim to be wholly original and not influenced by any social construct.


In this respect I feel that largely throughout my life I have moved from one “uniform” or "costume" to the other. First it was my mother, then it was my peers who were very trend conscious, I went through the phase of attempting to masculinise myself and don what I thought was the “lesbian” uniform, then when I was exasperated by not fitting this form I chose femme and it was a style that seemed to represent me in deeper emotional ways.


So I guess essentially what I am trying to say is that it is somewhat ironic to be judged for my “uniform/costume” from someone who is also wearing their own self assigned “uniform/costume.”


Lastly


Thank you again for the wonderful responses, I was a bit self-conscious about how whiney the first post sounded, and I was no doubt seeking reassurance, but it was how I was feeling and I am grateful for those kind words.

[Quintease]

I'm another who believes that if they feel the need to put you down in order to build themselves up, fuck 'em off. The only person I dated who honestly believed that as a femme, I should be submissive, quiet and stupid, turned out to be an abusive con.

She lied to me throughout the relationship and patted herself on the back for being so clever when I trusted her. She assaulted me and convinced herself that my friends would consider her version of the story more credible than mine, they didn't. She was also intimidated by my sexual experience (I've been around ) so used to try to make me feel bad about it. All this had nothing to do with her butch identity or my long hair, and everything to do with the fact that she was an idiot.

Honestly, why waste your life with the worthless when there are really great people out there??

[TrixieSwizzle]

Originally Posted by Quintease

I'm another who believes that if they feel the need to put you down in order to build themselves up, fuck 'em off. The only person I dated who honestly believed that as a femme, I should be submissive, quiet and stupid, turned out to be an abusive con.

She lied to me throughout the relationship and patted herself on the back for being so clever when I trusted her. She assaulted me and convinced herself that my friends would consider her version of the story more credible than mine, they didn't. She was also intimidated by my sexual experience (I've been around ) so used to try to make me feel bad about it. All this had nothing to do with her butch identity or my long hair, and everything to do with the fact that she was an idiot.

Honestly, why waste your life with the worthless when there are really great people out there??

I think I know that butch!!! lol...do you think she moved to Illinois????

[Quintease]

Originally Posted by TrixieSwizzle

I think I know that butch!!! lol...do you think she moved to Illinois????

Lol, no. There are probably many versions of her dotted around the world. Growing up thinking the world owes them something and devoid of the ability to care for others.

[pinkajl]

Star, I'm going to gently suggest that sometimes when we find ourselves being treated in a particular way - a way that makes us feel uncomfortable because it is not in sync with who we know ourselves to truly be - well, that is a good time to step back for a moment and objectively do a self-assessment.

When I first came out, I was treated as the dumb grrl and many butches and gay men would not respect personal space boundaries. It got to the point where I literally did not feel safe going to a bar on my own, so I would bring a "chaperone" whose job it was to keep hands off of me.

Long story short, I had an incident that was the proverbial kick in the seat of the pants that forced me to take a long hard look at myself. By examining my childhood and patterns of adult relationships, I was able to identify and deal with some issues that I thought I had resolved long ago.

I was able to affirm to myself that (1) I am a strong woman and I do not *need* anyone to protect me, although what I want and desire is a different issue; and (2) I am an intelligent woman worthy of respect. Knowing this to be my fundamental truth, I began putting out an entirely different energy. To start with, I would walk into a room with my head held slightly higher and that immediately set a different tone for how I was treated.

As far as the intelligent part goes... I still sometimes get treated like a dumb grrl, but that really doesn't bother me too much anymore - mainly because I know the truth *and* I know I have the choice to walk away from the ignorance.

Anyhow, it sounds as though you may have already started a journey of self reflection, with how you spoke about your mom dressing you up a like a doll. Perhaps, instead of thinking of your clothes as your latest "costume/uniform" (which may be sending an unconscious message to others) you may want to think of yourself and your choices more authentically.

Please know this message is written with tender thoughts and hopes that tomorrow will bring you closer to a better place.

Pink

ps- I'm new to BFP, though many years ago I was on the b-f site.

[Star Anise]

Originally Posted by pinkajl

I was able to affirm to myself that (1) I am a strong woman and I do not *need* anyone to protect me, although what I want and desire is a different issue; and (2) I am an intelligent woman worthy of respect. Knowing this to be my fundamental truth, I began putting out an entirely different energy. To start with, I would walk into a room with my head held slightly higher and that immediately set a different tone for how I was treated.

I think this plays a big role in this situation. The initial post I made in a moment of supposed weakness, but I think that part of me realised that by exposing this weakness as such, in such a bluntly honest way would force me to confront other issues that may be lingering under the surface. How I feel about myself, or how I fear people will treat/perceive me as an extension of my own insecurities and how that possibly reflects back to me in the behaviour and attitude of others.

As far as the intelligent part goes... I still sometimes get treated like a dumb grrl, but that really doesn't bother me too much anymore - mainly because I know the truth *and* I know I have the choice to walk away from the ignorance.

Yes, I agree. It is the fact that I am insecure within myself that I could let the opinion of another impact upon me so profoundly. I am not a dumb ditzy girl, and I do not need to participate in that cycle. I do have the choice also to walk away.

Anyhow, it sounds as though you may have already started a journey of self reflection, with how you spoke about your mom dressing you up a like a doll. Perhaps, instead of thinking of your clothes as your latest "costume/uniform" (which may be sending an unconscious message to others) you may want to think of yourself and your choices more authentically.

This is definitely an interesting aspect, the process/journey of uncovering what is authentic. I tend to think though that most of our identities are to varying degrees fabrication, I am not so sure I gel with concepts of the true self. Though we may engage in habits, behaviour or presentation that is more authentic to ourselves than others.

It was going down this road that led me back to expressing myself in a more feminine way again, after attempting to "lesbianise" myself which I erroneously thought would occur by wearing a more masculine costume.

When I became less rigid upon myself, and observed the style and personality that I seemed to become without "trying" as such, I would become more femme. I am still sorting through how much of this is my mothers influence and how much is "authentic."

Please know this message is written with tender thoughts and hopes that tomorrow will bring you closer to a better place.

Pink

ps- I'm new to BFP, though many years ago I was on the b-f site.

Thank you for your contribution, and the respect towards my own possible interpretations of your thoughts.

[genghisfawn]

Tale as old as time...

Imagine a small city with more straight butches than queer butches, and most of the queer butches are straight.

A brainy, fun femme meets a single butch (into femmes! no wai!) and pitches some demure woo.

Then it happens... butch begins to talk down to femme. Femme is justifiably annoyed as it has become apparent that butch is either a bit of an airhead or is somewhat insecure. Femme responds politely but with as much mannerly wit as is possible without brow-furrowing or a big eff you.

Butch throws down with something downright insulting (my best yet, in response to a comment about how Saturday nights are more about the freedom of opportunity than the pressure of obligation... "That's a bit heavy for a Saturday night... Did you go to school or something?")

Femme smiles and thanks butch for the drink, but heads around talking to friends for awhile and leaves.

*cuddles up and sighs*

[Sachita]

I spent a lot of years escaping that great white lie. People that underestimate me- their bad. People who disrespect me on any level I don't give the time of day much less care what they think.

I dress for me. I celebrate my femininity because I want to and not to catch anyone. If someone wants me its because they value me for everything I am. Anyone who really has the privilege of really knowing me knows that I'm capable of anything. That's all that really matters to me any more.