The Purse: Unpacking Femme Privilege

[Medusa]

Nat kinda touched on this with an earlier post.

Age and Privilege in the Femme world.

Are younger Femmes more privileged in the B/F community than older Femmes? Or is that just an age thing in general?

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by Medusa

Nat kinda touched on this with an earlier post.

Age and Privilege in the Femme world.

Are younger Femmes more privileged in the B/F community than older Femmes? Or is that just an age thing in general?

I feel sexism gives them perceived privilege, Nat touched on it with the often older butch younger femme. I do think that it depends on the non femme person though, if they are valuing younger to better that's on them. I personally don't have and have not had an issue growing older as far as dating or fucking. I've enjoyed the company of younger femmes and older because when together and not around a *dating pool* of opportunities femmes bond and talk and share regardless of age. When in a group of Femmes it's really amazing how we all come together, you may have an occasional person who is not there for the bonding with femmes but more on the look out for a future dating prospect but I think those people weed themselves out quite early. So no I don't think they are more privileged per say though I do think they are more free to express themselves and have more ways to access and meet up other queers like themselves. I could be wrong though

[Julie]

Originally Posted by Medusa

Nat kinda touched on this with an earlier post.

Age and Privilege in the Femme world.

Are younger Femmes more privileged in the B/F community than older Femmes? Or is that just an age thing in general?

Maybe I am alone in my thoughts...

I feel (for myself) that I have WAY more privilege now as an older femme (gonna be a crone soon) then a younger femme. I have EXPERIENCE.

I have no doubt misogyny plays heavy in our community. Older butches lusting after younger femmes. But my internal self esteem knows and believes... What I got going on with this body, mind and soul and the years I have lived and the scars I have endured...

I have even experienced reverse ageism. I would NEVER date a young butch. Hell NO! What would we possibly discuss? LOL - see. Poor younger butches are shunned by older femmes like me.

Give me a seasoned butch with history and the know how - and I am a very happy older femme.

The only privilege I feel a younger femme has over me, is time. She has more time to live her life and experience so many more years of love and love making than I do. She has the privilege of making babies if she should choose. She has the privilege of wearing what she wants, that I (my choice) as an older femme would not wear. She has the opportunities to change her career over and over again, whereas - I am 50, and I know the work place is not as interested in me, as perhaps they might be in someone younger.

Julie

[dixie]

Originally Posted by Julie

Maybe I am alone in my thoughts...

I feel (for myself) that I have WAY more privilege now as an older femme (gonna be a crone soon) then a younger femme. I have EXPERIENCE.

I have no doubt misogyny plays heavy in our community. Older butches lusting after younger femmes. But my internal self esteem knows and believes... What I got going on with this body, mind and soul and the years I have lived and the scars I have endured...

I have even experienced reverse ageism. I would NEVER date a young butch. Hell NO! What would we possibly discuss? LOL - see. Poor younger butches are shunned by older femmes like me.

Give me a seasoned butch with history and the know how - and I am a very happy older femme.

The only privilege I feel a younger femme has over me, is time. She has more time to live her life and experience so many more years of love and love making than I do. She has the privilege of making babies if she should choose. She has the privilege of wearing what she wants, that I (my choice) as an older femme would not wear. She has the opportunities to change her career over and over again, whereas - I am 50, and I know the work place is not as interested in me, as perhaps they might be in someone younger.

Julie

I agree with this. For me, I feel that older femmes do usually have more advantages such as experience, respect, etc. Younger femmes may have more time for opportunities, but are sometimes viewed as "less than" or not taken as seriously, based solely upon age.

[Medusa]

Originally Posted by dixielady

I agree with this. For me, I feel that older femmes do usually have more advantages such as experience, respect, etc. Younger femmes may have more time for opportunities, but are sometimes viewed as "less than" or not taken as seriously, based solely upon age.

Dixieboo!

I hear you and experienced some of this when I was a 23-year-old Femme first signing up on the Dash site. I was head-patted by lots of older Femmes because "How could I possibly know anything about life" and also by older Butches who thought of me as a "party girl" or whatever.

I did, however, feel that I had privilege in the dating pool as a younger Femme because I felt like many Butches in my orbit objectified younger Femmes as sexier/more sexual or whatever. But I dunno if that was such a privilege, only being seen for sexual value. IMO now, not so much.

I have been witness to older Femmes being called things like "crusty" or having insults hurled about like "who'd want to fuck her old ass?" so I do think there are huge elements of ageism when it comes to us...but more than anything, this is residual from the ageism in the world at large and our community has proven that we are not immune to it.

I always try to keep in mind that there are Femmes older than me who "know things" and also Femmes younger than me who "know things" and that all of those experiences are valid, valued, and essential!

[Julie]

I believe the bottom line falls on ourselves.
We can allow ageism, sexism, misogyny and all the other negatives to influence our lives.

None of us are better than the other... As Medusa said (without quoting) We all bring something valuable to the table.

It is my hope always - that all of us are empowered by the Femme's we are and by one another. That we do NOT ever allow someone to get away with dis-empowering us.

And I challenge any person to call me "crusty." Perhaps though, it will be a great day in my life, when I have this descriptor thrown on me. It will mean, I have lived.

Julie

[princessbelle]

Originally Posted by Julie

I believe the bottom line falls on ourselves.
We can allow ageism, sexism, misogyny and all the other negatives to influence our lives.

None of us are better than the other... As Medusa said (without quoting) We all bring something valuable to the table.

It is my hope always - that all of us are empowered by the Femme's we are and by one another. That we do NOT ever allow someone to get away with dis-empowering us.

And I challenge any person to call me "crusty." Perhaps though, it will be a great day in my life, when I have this descriptor thrown on me. It will mean, I have lived.

Julie

Yes!!!

I have a hope as well. I sincerely hope that the young femmes do have more privilege than i had.

My hope is that *our* existance in this world is way more than self appropriating. I hope that we have, even in some small way, smoothed the path, added an additional stone on the yellow brick road, attended a gathering standing proud to be a femme, forged an accepting thought from others, signed at least one petition for human/femme/any ID's rights that actually helped broaden the world's acceptance. I hope that we have some how made the journey a tiny bit easier, a little more obvious that we exist, and have shined a little light toward the beautiful ID of femmes for the younger generation.

For all of the hard times *we* have shared, the fights for identifications and self-recognition, standing proud with our brothers/sisters and being heard, it was worth it for ourselves as well as providing a beacon for the young, ever evolving femmes.

Just as the ones before us have done and just as these femmes will do for the next generation.

That is my hope.

[CherylNYC]

Originally Posted by princessbelle

Yes!!!

I have a hope as well. I sincerely hope that the young femmes do have more privilege than i had.

My hope is that *our* existance in this world is way more than self appropriating. I hope that we have, even in some small way, smoothed the path, added an additional stone on the yellow brick road, attended a gathering standing proud to be a femme, forged an accepting thought from others, signed at least one petition for human/femme/any ID's rights that actually helped broaden the world's acceptance. I hope that we have some how made the journey a tiny bit easier, a little more obvious that we exist, and have shined a little light toward the beautiful ID of femmes for the younger generation.

For all of the hard times *we* have shared, the fights for identifications and self-recognition, standing proud with our brothers/sisters and being heard, it was worth it for ourselves as well as providing a beacon for the young, ever evolving femmes.

Just as the ones before us have done and just as these femmes will do for the next generation.

That is my hope.

I was thinking about this very thing just the other day after shopping in a vintage clothing store with a femme friend. We found a fluttery pink chiffon skirt with pink spangles, and it was her size. She really wanted to buy it, and we had a fascinating discussion about how very transgressive it would be for her to wear it. We called it 'the skirt one must not wear'. This skirt would have been sooooo off limits to any lesbian when I was in my twenties. Had I shown up to any of our events in such a thing I would have been the object of derision, and I probably wouldn't have gotten laid for the rest of the decade. Even though my friend is 10 years younger than I, she's certainly felt the judgement of many a lesbian for her interest in all things girlie. Not to the extent I would have of course, but enough. She ended up not buying the skirt, but only because she couldn't find a blouse that would match. When she put it back on the rack she commented that a 20 something femme with no idea that the skirt represented anything or was in any way transgressive would happily buy it and wear it for her Daddy, conflict-free.

It took me a day or two to realize that this reality for many young femmes, that they can express themselves without the judgement and conflict those of my generation experienced, is an awesome gift that we've given to them. I don't personally care whether or not any one of them recognises it as such. I'm quite certain that I took many things for granted when I was in my 20s, and those advances had been purchased in blood by my forebears.

I'm not sure what this has to do with femme privilege. Probably not much at all. My point is that whether or not we're privileged over butches, or any other stripe of our communities, we still face and fight our own battles. This is one battle that seems to have had a wonderful outcome.

[Angeltoes]

I'm curious as to why people feel uncomfortable about accepting a cup of coffee from a stranger. I have bought for and accepted various things from strangers.

[Toughy]

Originally Posted by Angeltoes

I'm curious as to why people feel uncomfortable about accepting a cup of coffee from a stranger. I have bought for and accepted various things from strangers.

cuz my momma didn't raise no fool.........laughin.........

don't take candy from strangers........

[Bèsame*]

It has come to pass unfornately that strangers, are not who they portray themselves to be. As much as we/I want to believe they are kind, no one really knows what lurks behind their motives. Most of us see and feel the flags, but some do not.

Originally Posted by Angeltoes

I'm curious as to why people feel uncomfortable about accepting a cup of coffee from a stranger. I have bought for and accepted various things from strangers.

[Angeltoes]

True, but I grew up a long way from Boise, Idaho in a really harsh environment and have yet to regret buying or accepting something so small from a stranger. If I'm chatting on line with someone and say 'I'll get this' and pay for their coffee it's just a simple gesture to be nice. So if I would do it to be nice, I can't see why others wouldn't.

Originally Posted by Uniqueswtfemm

It has come to pass unfornately that strangers, are not who they portray themselves to be. As much as we/I want to believe they are kind, no one really knows what lurks behind their motives. Most of us see and feel the flags, but some do not.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by Angeltoes

I'm curious as to why people feel uncomfortable about accepting a cup of coffee from a stranger. I have bought for and accepted various things from strangers.

I like my boundaries to be crystal clear with folks especially strangers, it's unfortunate that sometimes if not most of the time that when something is purchased it'll equate in their mind one "owes" them time, your attention, your gratitude.. *My* time is valuable, certainly worth much moré than a beverage.

That's how *I* roll not everyone may share this particular line of thought.

[Kätzchen]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

I like my boundaries to be crystal clear with folks especially strangers, it's unfortunate that sometimes if not most of the time that when something is purchased it'll equate in their mind one "owes" them time, your attention, your gratitude.. *My* time is valuable, certainly worth much moré than a beverage.

That's how *I* roll not everyone may share this particular line of thought.

Just to add to this line of thought:

This is how *I* roll, too.

Angeltoes, as you grow on your journey these days, you will find that you tinker with your own system of boundaries and you may even find that several experiences of your own, now or in the future, will sharpen your focus on where your boundaries will need shoring up or expansion - on any given day or time or even more specific, as defined by an event that is unique to your own experience.

My boundaries in the past were pretty open. Not so much anymore but to add specificity to my statement: I remain open minded but govern my boundaries judiciously with each event or circumstance that presents the opportunity to fine tune my boundary system... because this is how my stone rolls these days.

[Angeltoes]

But I do have clear boundaries. We're still talking about a cup of coffee, aren't we??

That's how you roll and that's fine. But personally, I do NOT think my time is worth more than the price of beverage because unless I'm working, my time is not for sale. I give it freely or not at all.

Originally Posted by Kätzchen

Just to add to this line of thought:

This is how *I* roll, too.

Angeltoes, as you grow on your journey these days, you will find that you tinker with your own system of boundaries and you may even find that several experiences of your own, now or in the future, will sharpen your focus on where your boundaries will need shoring up or expansion - on any given day or time or even more specific, as defined by an event that is unique to your own experience.

My boundaries in the past were pretty open. Not so much anymore but to add specificity to my statement: I remain open minded but govern my boundaries judiciously with each event or circumstance that presents the opportunity to fine tune my boundary system... because this is how my stone rolls these days.