2012 - What does it mean to you?

[NJFemmie]

What it means astrologically is ....

- A quincunx (150 degree aspect) between Jupiter and Pluto.
- A quincunx between Jupiter and Saturn.
- A central opposition (180 degree aspect) made between Jupiter and the Mercury/Venus conjunction.

The two quincunxes are almost exact, and have an orb of less than 1/2 of a degree. The quincunx between Jupiter and Pluto is exact at December 21 2012.

Pluto (The Energy of Evolution) is the planet of radical transformation, death and rebirth. (Pluto causes the disintegration of psychological blocks obstructing our evolutionary growth.)

Saturn (the Great Cosmic Teacher) is the planet of the earthly realm and of learning experiences, especially those of a more painful nature.

Jupiter (Ruler of all things philosophical) is also the planet of expansion (expanding the mind (higher mind) to superconscious realms and philosophy/expanding our physical horizons through long journeys). This is the focus of this alignment, the planet which receives the strong energy of the other planets involved. It also expands the energy of the other planets involved (especially Saturn and Pluto). This indicates transformational processes which can be emotionally painful.

Jupiter has a central place in this because it is the focal point of the energy. This indicates changes in our religious systems, beliefs, philosophical systems. These fall under Jupiter.

Also notable:

Jupiter squares (90 degree aspect) Neptune.
Neptune (The Ruler of all things "subtle") squares Venus.
Venus is in opposition to Jupiter (making this the central opposition).

Therefore Neptune, the planet of spirituality, ascension, confusion and floods is a crucial planet within this alignment. It rules all the processes of enlightenment.

What is interesting is that on that date, there will be an unusual astrological alignment combined with a rare galactic event.

Do I still think the world is coming to an end? No. But I think there are going to be some worldwide changes - and as previously mentioned - both individual and generational. Alignments like these have ushered in brand new eras, collectively changing the way humanity thinks, feels and interacts with one another.

I know I am making popcorn that day.

[dreadgeek]

Originally Posted by NJFemmie

Jupiter (Ruler of all things philosophical) is also the planet of expansion (expanding the mind (higher mind) to superconscious realms and philosophy/expanding our physical horizons through long journeys). This is the focus of this alignment, the planet which receives the strong energy of the other planets involved. It also expands the energy of the other planets involved (especially Saturn and Pluto). This indicates transformational processes which can be emotionally painful.

Please pardon my ignorance. How would we know this happened? What would a year where there wasn't a transformational process look like as opposed to the kind of event you're talking about? (Again, please pardon my ignorance but I'm presuming that you are talking about observable events so I'm curious as to what we should expect to observe.)

Do I still think the world is coming to an end? No. But I think there are going to be some worldwide changes - and as previously mentioned - both individual and generational. Alignments like these have ushered in brand new eras, collectively changing the way humanity thinks, feels and interacts with one another.

I know I am making popcorn that day.

Can you give me an example of this? Admittedly, astrology is FAR outside of my competency and I have some questions (which I'll spare you) about the mechanics of astrology (in other words how it's supposed to work). I mean, was the start of the European Enlightenment one of these periods? Were the planets aligned the same way when Rousseau, Burke, Smith, Condorcet, Paine and Hume were writing?

Cheers
Aj

[NJFemmie]

Please pardon my ignorance. How would we know this happened? What would a year where there wasn't a transformational process look like as opposed to the kind of event you're talking about? (Again, please pardon my ignorance but I'm presuming that you are talking about observable events so I'm curious as to what we should expect to observe.)

We wouldn't know this happened, because it hasn't yet. This in itself is a rare alignment and it is SPECULATED, based on the interpretations of the planets and their positions, that this may take place. Have others taken place? Yes, but the astrological alignments for other eras/changes are not exactly the same.

In astrology, the distant planets Uranus, Saturn, Neptune and Pluto have more of a generational effect. In other words, humanity as a whole. The inner planets have more of an individualized effect (like.. what makes a taurus a taurus, etc..)

Alignments are complex. As an example, in the early 1930's - a T-Square alignment in certain planets/signs (I think it was Saturn, Uranus and Pluto) was symbolic of an economic breakdown in Western economies (the Depression), which in fact, affected all countries. Also during this T-square, the Nazi regime flourished, and well, we all know what impact that made on societies all across the world.

The 1960's was in itself an era ushered in by Saturn opposing Uranus and Pluto.

Each "era" has their own unique signature of planetary alignments and influences that have made them what they were/are. So, it's impossible to say what will EXACTLY happen - only speculate based on gathered information that has been accumulated over the centuries.

Can you give me an example of this? Admittedly, astrology is FAR outside of my competency and I have some questions (which I'll spare you) about the mechanics of astrology (in other words how it's supposed to work). I mean, was the start of the European Enlightenment one of these periods? Were the planets aligned the same way when Rousseau, Burke, Smith, Condorcet, Paine and Hume were writing?

Astrology may be outside your realm as much as quantum physics would be outside of mine. Honestly? I have NO idea (unless I sit and extensively research this) what alignments were in place during this particular time period and what plausible astrological effects to provide.

[dreadgeek]

Originally Posted by NJFemmie

Please pardon my ignorance. How would we know this happened? What would a year where there wasn't a transformational process look like as opposed to the kind of event you're talking about? (Again, please pardon my ignorance but I'm presuming that you are talking about observable events so I'm curious as to what we should expect to observe.)

We wouldn't know this happened, because it hasn't yet. This in itself is a rare alignment and it is SPECULATED, based on the interpretations of the planets and their positions, that this may take place. Have others taken place? Yes, but the astrological alignments for other eras/changes are not exactly the same.

In astrology, the distant planets Uranus, Saturn, Neptune and Pluto have more of a generational effect. In other words, humanity as a whole. The inner planets have more of an individualized effect (like.. what makes a taurus a taurus, etc..)

Alignments are complex. As an example, in the early 1930's - a T-Square alignment in certain planets/signs (I think it was Saturn, Uranus and Pluto) was symbolic of an economic breakdown in Western economies (the Depression), which in fact, affected all countries. Also during this T-square, the Nazi regime flourished, and well, we all know what impact that made on societies all across the world.

The 1960's was in itself an era ushered in by Saturn opposing Uranus and Pluto.

Each "era" has their own unique signature of planetary alignments and influences that have made them what they were/are. So, it's impossible to say what will EXACTLY happen - only speculate based on gathered information that has been accumulated over the centuries.

Can you give me an example of this? Admittedly, astrology is FAR outside of my competency and I have some questions (which I'll spare you) about the mechanics of astrology (in other words how it's supposed to work). I mean, was the start of the European Enlightenment one of these periods? Were the planets aligned the same way when Rousseau, Burke, Smith, Condorcet, Paine and Hume were writing?

Astrology may be outside your realm as much as quantum physics would be outside of mine. Honestly? I have NO idea (unless I sit and extensively research this) what alignments were in place during this particular time period and what plausible astrological effects to provide.

Well I appreciate your answering my questions. Thank you.

Cheers
Aj

[Cyclopea]

When people believe in totally unscientific things like astrology or tea leaves or evolution-denial how do they rationalize their belief? What do people get out of believing such things?

Who decides what attributes to give to planetary bodies? Who decided on the attributes of the planet Pluto after it was discovered in the 1930s? And what about Ceris, which we now know is a larger planet than Pluto? It all seems so random, like believing Noah kept dinosaurs on the ark.

I don't say this to insult anyone- I am genuinely curious how one makes that decision to believe. Is it just something in your "gut" that you just feel you have to go with, or how does that work?

[SuperFemme]

I'd like to take this moment to join together in an armageddon song?

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vo_0UXRY_rY"]YouTube- Aerosmith - I Don't Wanna Miss a Thing[/ame]

[NJFemmie]

We believe what feels right within. I think the original question was "what does it mean to you" - and those answers are not always going to be comprised of answers based on scientific fact, everyone's rationalization is going to be what feels right to them.

What do people get out of believing such things?

For me, it's illogical to think that everything is purely scientific and "logical". Because in reality, NO ONE REALLY KNOWS - they only know what they do know - and if the universe is infinite, so are the possibilities.

[SuperFemme]

I believe I thought NJ's sig line referred to the Yoruban Goddess until about one minute ago.

Ohhh. OCEAN.

I believe in lots of stuff because I choose to. Astrology being one of them.

End of the world predictions? Not so much.
I like surprises.

[dreadgeek]

Originally Posted by NJFemmie

We believe what feels right within. I think the original question was "what does it mean to you" - and those answers are not always going to be comprised of answers based on scientific fact, everyone's rationalization is going to be what feels right to them.

What do people get out of believing such things?

For me, it's illogical to think that everything is purely scientific and "logical". Because in reality, NO ONE REALLY KNOWS - they only know what they do know - and if the universe is infinite, so are the possibilities.

I read the question a bit differently. For instance, let's take, as a point of contrast, belief in a divine being (which I also see no reason to believe in). This can be a comforting belief. But what does one gain from believing, for instance, that a now extinct civilization (not the people but the civilization) predicted some ill-defined cataclysm? It's certainly not comforting NOR is there anything one can do about it. As another point of contrast, consider (if you're old enough) the response to fears of a nuclear war that dominated the (industrialized) world from 1948 until the early 1990's. Here there WAS something that could be done about it. Fear that Goldwater might be crazy enough to attempt to fight a nuclear war kept him from the Presidency and, quite possibly, prevented us from getting into one. Or consider the somewhat more remote possibility of a planet-killer asteroid out there. If we can spot it we MIGHT be able to divert it (it's essentially a physics/engineering problem). But if the threat is ill-defined (something will happen, who knows what) then what is the point? As I said yesterday it sells books and movie tickets but other than making Hollywood moguls and New Age gurus a little heavier in the wallet, what actual *good* does it do?

As far as everything not being scientific and logical, this depends upon what you mean. To give another illustration, I'll take something I mentioned in the paper I linked to yesterday. You are mostly empty space. Everything is. There is a non-zero probability that you could walk through a wall. However, because both you and the wall are macro-objects if you started *today* to try to walk through a wall and you attempted once every second to do so, you would have to wait until the universe were around a hundred billion years old before you had done enough attempts that it would have some probability of actually happening. We can, therefore, treat walls as solid objects that it is impossible to pass through.

What's more, there are things that are *conceivable* but so highly improbable that we save a great deal of time by treating them as impossible. For instance, there is no law of physics that prevents air from *spontaneously* re-inflating your tire when it goes flat. The process that deflates your tire is, in fact, time-reversible meaning that it is process-reversible. However, the statistical nature of the movement of molecules means that it is very *unlikely* to ever actually occur. (This, by the way, is one way of understanding the Second Law of Thermodynamics: e.g. entropy)

Lastly, I would have to say that the possibilities are not actually infinite nor is there any reason to take our *profound* ignorance about nature to mean that anything goes. It is simply true that, to the best of our knowledge, it is *impossible* to accelerate an object with mass to the speed of light through space-time. We can safely treat any claims that someone has built a device that can achieve acceleration to the speed of light as a false claim. The same applies for perpetual motion machines (any machine where it generates its own energy without any loss: e.g. 100% of the energy used by the machine can be used for work). To say that 'no one knows because the universe is infinite' is to treat the laws of physics as nothing more than just some localized, arbitrary caprices when, in fact, they are not.

I want to tack on another question: what is WRONG with the universe having limits on us? Why is it that people balk at that? Why does the universe 'owe' us perpetual motion machines, psychic powers, or a divine being that cares for us (but, interestingly, doesn't condemn us to hell). Why is it illogical for nature to be governed by some set of rules that are discoverable by any species clever enough to hit upon the idea of the scientific method?

It seems to me that this claim is actually somewhat testable. For instance, if there are psychic powers (whatever that might mean) then we should expect that these powers would exhibit SOME kind of behavior. For instance, Einstein came up with a clever suggestion about how to determine if psychic powers existed. If they are a field then they should fall off according to the inverse square law (just like every other field does) if they don't, in other words if distance from the source has no effect on strength, then they don't exist because *every other single field we have discovered* obeys that law. Now, alternatively, if psychic powers aren't subject to the inverse square law of fields then those who argue in favor of them have the burden of proof placed on *them* to explain the nature of these powers and why they are the exception.

This is just a matter of consistent thinking and an attempt to keep the cognitive dissonance to the absolute minimum possible.

Cheers
Aj