OCCUPY WALL STREET

[Ebon]

Originally Posted by persiphone

i think farm subsidies elimination should be limited to gmo crops. that's my only wrinkle with what they've got down. otherwise.....WOOT!

Absolutely, we need local real food. Not GMO crops and not veggies from 2000 miles away.

[persiphone]

Originally Posted by Ebon

Absolutely, we need local real food. Not GMO crops and not veggies from 2000 miles away.

food. a topic near and dear to my heart. there are many problems with this direction even though i completely agree with you. i truly wish it were that simple. a few tidbits....

~farmers make up 1% or less (oh the irony) of all occupations in America. the number is so small that the word "farmer" isn't even listed on the census anymore.

~corps have addicted the public to A.) hfcs and B.) absurdly low prices for food (which is part of a whole slew of other hidden agendas that could take days to hash out)

~not all places in America CAN be farmed to supply local cities in towns

~importing. need i say more?

~farming to feed cattle, pork, etc. lots of issues surrounding that.

i mean, it goes on and on and on. i won't even get into farming practices themselves cuz that could take another week right there. the main thing is that the food supply is so severely fucked up on so many levels that it could take decades to clean it up. literally. however, i think gmo's are a good start. incidentally, one of the reason we can't export our food supply is because the rest of the world doesn't want our gmo garbage contaminating their food supply. but we never hear about THAT in the news. getting rid of gmos could help us export crops, which, would mean farmers could actually make a living. and that's just the beginning. that topic is so deep it makes my head spin and keeps me up at night.

[atomiczombie]

[Cin]

Occupy Wall Street's $435,000 In Donations Could Last The Winter
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/1...n_1019352.html

[Ebon]

Originally Posted by persiphone

food. a topic near and dear to my heart. there are many problems with this direction even though i completely agree with you. i truly wish it were that simple. a few tidbits....

~farmers make up 1% or less (oh the irony) of all occupations in America. the number is so small that the word "farmer" isn't even listed on the census anymore.

~corps have addicted the public to A.) hfcs and B.) absurdly low prices for food (which is part of a whole slew of other hidden agendas that could take days to hash out)

~not all places in America CAN be farmed to supply local cities in towns

~importing. need i say more?

~farming to feed cattle, pork, etc. lots of issues surrounding that.

i mean, it goes on and on and on. i won't even get into farming practices themselves cuz that could take another week right there. the main thing is that the food supply is so severely fucked up on so many levels that it could take decades to clean it up. literally. however, i think gmo's are a good start. incidentally, one of the reason we can't export our food supply is because the rest of the world doesn't want our gmo garbage contaminating their food supply. but we never hear about THAT in the news. getting rid of gmos could help us export crops, which, would mean farmers could actually make a living. and that's just the beginning. that topic is so deep it makes my head spin and keeps me up at night.

Yeah I watched a couple of docos about it and read about a bunch of shit that Monsanto did (like trying to put a patent on the pig). I didn't even think about places not being able to be farmed on, that's a good point. However, it seems like there is a lot of land outside of cities that can be used. Also there are lots of people doing urban farming for the little neighborhoods that they live in, I know of 3 here in Austin, plus 2 more farmers markets. I know not everyone can afford it but I think that the government should pitch in to help make costs lower for everyone when comes to natural non gmo foods for us to eat.

[Cin]

Naomi Wolf: how I was arrested at Occupy Wall Street

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...?newsfeed=true

[persiphone]

Originally Posted by Ebon

Yeah I watched a couple of docos about it and read about a bunch of shit that Monsanto did (like trying to put a patent on the pig). I didn't even think about places not being able to be farmed on, that's a good point. However, it seems like there is a lot of land outside of cities that can be used. Also there are lots of people doing urban farming for the little neighborhoods that they live in, I know of 3 here in Austin, plus 2 more farmers markets. I know not everyone can afford it but I think that the government should pitch in to help make costs lower for everyone when comes to natural non gmo foods for us to eat.

i absolutely agree. but the subsidies end up propping up huge gmo monocultures while the average joe farmer gets squeezed out by the gmo creators. and farming ain't easy. it's hard, back breaking work, unless you are mechanized and even then it's not all that easy. to grow food for a populace with out harming the soils and the environment, one needs to have a deep understanding of soils and how they work, the microbiological life it needs to be sustainable, the nutrients/minerals and all of THEIR cycles not to mention have impeccable timing of seasonal pests and diseases to just maintain whatever it is your growing to get it to harvest. i mean, it's not glamorous lol! and it's not profitable, either. farmers are not making millions. in fact, a lot of the average joe farmers left are deeply in debt just to keep the show going. and THEN.....you have to convince that same populace that eating seasonally is the way to go. do you eat only what's in season? i never have, but i've been working on it for the past couple of years. it's really hard! cuz dangit i want a strawberry in january.

in the utopia in my head everyone cooperates and farms pop all over place and farms in places that can grow strawberries in january in America do and send them to places in America where they can't. until then, people will continue to buy strawberries from some foreign country that were picked green and gassed on the way here to make them red enough for grocery stores across America.

[Sachita]

Originally Posted by persiphone

i absolutely agree. but the subsidies end up propping up huge gmo monocultures while the average joe farmer gets squeezed out by the gmo creators. and farming ain't easy. it's hard, back breaking work, unless you are mechanized and even then it's not all that easy. to grow food for a populace with out harming the soils and the environment, one needs to have a deep understanding of soils and how they work, the microbiological life it needs to be sustainable, the nutrients/minerals and all of THEIR cycles not to mention have impeccable timing of seasonal pests and diseases to just maintain whatever it is your growing to get it to harvest. i mean, it's not glamorous lol! and it's not profitable, either. farmers are not making millions. in fact, a lot of the average joe farmers left are deeply in debt just to keep the show going. and THEN.....you have to convince that same populace that eating seasonally is the way to go. do you eat only what's in season? i never have, but i've been working on it for the past couple of years. it's really hard! cuz dangit i want a strawberry in january.

in the utopia in my head everyone cooperates and farms pop all over place and farms in places that can grow strawberries in january in America do and send them to places in America where they can't. until then, people will continue to buy strawberries from some foreign country that were picked green and gassed on the way here to make them red enough for grocery stores across America.

Since agriculture is my passion I stay tuned to the issues. Since this thread is not specifically about that I will not go into all the details. But I will say that there is a LARGE % of the population who just care not to think about it. If they did we wouldn't supporting the food markets we do. The reality is they will turn a blind eye and people will feed their kids and pets processed foods without even reading the label or researching to see the effects of certain ingredients and GMO's.

But these same people rely on the government and agencies such as the FDA to allow it into our food systems. Are you kidding me? We have a huge fucking financial crisis due to political corruption. Do you think these same people give a rats ass if the FDA is honest or not? Do most people know that in a HUGE part of processed food is after growth of the weed killer Round-up? Corn, soy beans, canola, wheat, just to name a food. All genetically modified seed to to control weeds. its growing in the freaking plant and YOU are consuming it. If they are giving it to cattle as feed its in the beef and in milk.

But the good news is that there has a been a HUGE increase in farmers markets the past ten years. That people are becoming more conscious and wise about choices, HOWEVER we need to act fast. Do something about it. Stop dreaming and giving lip service. (this is people in general) Stop shopping at Walmart or at least not so much. Find your local farms ( www.localharvest.org ) go visit, talk, help, support. Support organics. Yes it cost more because of supply and demand. Shop wisely and eat less if you have to. Stop making excuses. Get together with a few friends one day a week and plants an organic garden together. If you can raise some hens. Find local food coalitions in your area and see how you can help and support. Shop local and stop spending money on unnecessary things. Trade stuff, barter, shop at good will. Be proactive and conscious.

Talk, talk talk, go to an occupy with a group of friends.

We can change the world if we all get on board and stop the fucking insanity.

[atomiczombie]

Obama Tops GOP Candidates in Wall Street Donations

New figures show President Obama continues to pull in huge donations from the financial sector, with more money from Wall Street this year than all other Republican presidential candidates combined. According to the Washington Post, Obama has raised a total of $15.6 million from banks and other financial firms, with nearly $12 million of that going to the Democratic National Committee. Republican frontrunner Mitt Romney has raised less than half that much from Wall Street, around $7.5 million. A top banking executive and Obama fundraiser told the Washington Post that reports of Wall Street antagonism toward Obama "are exaggerated and overblown ... [but] it probably helps from a political perspective if he’s not seen as a Wall Street guy."

Link:

http://www.democracynow.org/2011/10/20/headlines#4

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by atomiczombie

Obama Tops GOP Candidates in Wall Street Donations

New figures show President Obama continues to pull in huge donations from the financial sector, with more money from Wall Street this year than all other Republican presidential candidates combined. According to the Washington Post, Obama has raised a total of $15.6 million from banks and other financial firms, with nearly $12 million of that going to the Democratic National Committee. Republican frontrunner Mitt Romney has raised less than half that much from Wall Street, around $7.5 million. A top banking executive and Obama fundraiser told the Washington Post that reports of Wall Street antagonism toward Obama "are exaggerated and overblown ... [but] it probably helps from a political perspective if he’s not seen as a Wall Street guy."

Link:

http://www.democracynow.org/2011/10/20/headlines#4

From the time he wanted Tim Guitner (sp?)as Sec of Treasury, I knew he had a close relationship with Wall Street. Never have liked that "wiz kid." No way can I see him having one ounce of real understanding of the average wage-earner in the US. Yet, I also get that any candidate for president will have some strings with Wall Street.

Shit.... just had a pretty big earthquake jolt here in SF Bay Area! Whoa!!! Going to listen to news and see what is going on. Net not off, so I think I am safe. But WOW- big bang and shake. Today is the 20 yr anniversary of the Oakland Hills fires. And close to San Bruno gas pipe fires. Shit. Weird.

[Kätzchen]

Originally Posted by atomiczombie

Obama Tops GOP Candidates in Wall Street Donations

New figures show President Obama continues to pull in huge donations from the financial sector, with more money from Wall Street this year than all other Republican presidential candidates combined. According to the Washington Post, Obama has raised a total of $15.6 million from banks and other financial firms, with nearly $12 million of that going to the Democratic National Committee. Republican frontrunner Mitt Romney has raised less than half that much from Wall Street, around $7.5 million. A top banking executive and Obama fundraiser told the Washington Post that reports of Wall Street antagonism toward Obama "are exaggerated and overblown ... [but] it probably helps from a political perspective if he’s not seen as a Wall Street guy."

Link:

http://www.democracynow.org/2011/10/20/headlines#4

Thank you for this, AZ. Seriously.
But I gotta sit tight on my feelings about what I have to say because I want to make sure that I'm not filtering through some fucked up anger I already have about O'Bama (checking my bias for hidden prejudices, etc.)(whole other thread, maybe RZ it).

*Thank you*

~D

[persiphone]

Originally Posted by Sachita

Since agriculture is my passion I stay tuned to the issues. Since this thread is not specifically about that I will not go into all the details. But I will say that there is a LARGE % of the population who just care not to think about it. If they did we wouldn't supporting the food markets we do. The reality is they will turn a blind eye and people will feed their kids and pets processed foods without even reading the label or researching to see the effects of certain ingredients and GMO's.

But these same people rely on the government and agencies such as the FDA to allow it into our food systems. Are you kidding me? We have a huge fucking financial crisis due to political corruption. Do you think these same people give a rats ass if the FDA is honest or not? Do most people know that in a HUGE part of processed food is after growth of the weed killer Round-up? Corn, soy beans, canola, wheat, just to name a food. All genetically modified seed to to control weeds. its growing in the freaking plant and YOU are consuming it. If they are giving it to cattle as feed its in the beef and in milk.

But the good news is that there has a been a HUGE increase in farmers markets the past ten years. That people are becoming more conscious and wise about choices, HOWEVER we need to act fast. Do something about it. Stop dreaming and giving lip service. (this is people in general) Stop shopping at Walmart or at least not so much. Find your local farms ( www.localharvest.org ) go visit, talk, help, support. Support organics. Yes it cost more because of supply and demand. Shop wisely and eat less if you have to. Stop making excuses. Get together with a few friends one day a week and plants an organic garden together. If you can raise some hens. Find local food coalitions in your area and see how you can help and support. Shop local and stop spending money on unnecessary things. Trade stuff, barter, shop at good will. Be proactive and conscious.

Talk, talk talk, go to an occupy with a group of friends.

We can change the world if we all get on board and stop the fucking insanity.

i actually work in agriculture and am studying some ag in college. i have worked next to migrant workers doing what they do and i've worked with farm owners doing what they do and i've done some consulting (just a little) on some specific farming practices. everything involving food is a passion of mine as well. i'm very passionate about the politics, ethics, practices, cooking, eating, etc of food. so i'm very aware of everything you're mentioning and then some lol!

the complexities i've pointed out involving the hurdles that live within our food supply (and all that that entails) are just a few things that most people simply aren't aware of. and that's ok, it just takes these kinds of conversations to make that happpen. kids aren't taught about food in school anymore. or anything involving ag for that matter. ag programs in colleges teach mechanized and chemical infused farming practices and how to fill out subsidy forms (i'm not kidding). it's amazing to me that my ag professors don't know what allelopathy is. but then they can't understand why grape vines are stunted near certain trees. and they really just don't know. we have become largely disconnected from our food on more than just the consumer level.

wheat is in a big battle right now because the gmo corps want to introduce gmo wheat and the wheat farmers don't want it because then they won't be able to export. i haven't updated myself in a few months on what the status of that fight is because i'm pretty swamped.

generally, but not exclusively, gmo's are a "Round-up ready" seed. so when the farmers spray Round-Up in their fields, the crop is resistant to the spray so that only the weeds die. They do that by taking an e.coli bacteria as a vector and transferring whatever DNA they want (in this case a gene coding that is resistant to Round -Up) into the e.coli and then the e.coli carries the DNA into the plant cells in the lab. additionally, there is a marker gene present in gmo's that are antibiotic resistant. the problem here is that DNA can be taken up by cells in more than one way. so, to have antibiotic resistant DNA litter floating about your body is bad bad bad.

but back to your point about blind eyes and such. i think that's valid. the first thing i hear out of a person's mouth when i say something like....buy organic....is that they can't afford it. and i believe them. i can't really afford it either. so i feel their pain. i recently went through a crisis where we lost everything and i decided when replacing everything in my kitchen to go gmo free and buy as much organic as i can. it was time to put up or shut up, i told myself. after eating cleaner for some time now, i have discovered that cleaner food fills me up faster and for longer. and the whole time i thought i was allergic to bread....i think i'm actually allergic to gmos. so while my grocery bill is a little higher and my grocery bag is a little lighter, it takes LESS clean food for me to feel nourished. and that was a huge thing for me. eating is such an intimate thing for so many people.

i went off on a tangent again. the point i wanted to make is.....the chips on the shelf today are not the chips i grew up on as a kid. the big mac of today is not the same big mac from 30 years ago. our food changed and we didn't. and now our food has made a lot of us sick and dependent on very expensive meds. so of course, when you live on minimum wage and you have diabetes....where are you gonna shop? not Whole Foods that's fo sho. i think it's less of a blind eye and more of an economic issue for lots of folks. not to mention....there are tons of places in America that don't have access to clean foods at all. we are lacking in choices. and it comes back full circle.

[Sachita]

Originally Posted by Ebon

Yeah I watched a couple of docos about it and read about a bunch of shit that Monsanto did (like trying to put a patent on the pig). I didn't even think about places not being able to be farmed on, that's a good point. However, it seems like there is a lot of land outside of cities that can be used. Also there are lots of people doing urban farming for the little neighborhoods that they live in, I know of 3 here in Austin, plus 2 more farmers markets. I know not everyone can afford it but I think that the government should pitch in to help make costs lower for everyone when comes to natural non gmo foods for us to eat.

There's lots of great documentaries that have facts


Deconstructing Supper - On a personal quest to understand our food choices, acclaimed chef John Bishop travels around the world exploring where genetically modified crops come from, whether they may be harmful and what alternative options currently exist. Through interviews with farmers, scientists and activists, this thought-provoking documentary offers substantial insight into the nuts and bolts of global food production.

The Future of Food - Before compiling your next grocery list, you might want to watch filmmaker Deborah Koons Garcia's eye-opening documentary, which sheds light on a shadowy relationship between agriculture, big business and government. By examining the effects of biotechnology on the nation's smallest farmers, the film reveals the unappetizing truth about genetically modified foods: You could unknowingly be serving them for dinner.

Food Matters (one of my favs)- With a staggering number of Americans suffering from obesity and other food-related maladies, this film takes a timely and hard-hitting look at how the food we eat is helping or hurting our health, and what we can do to live (and eat) better. Nutritionists, naturopaths, scientists, doctors, medical journalists and more weigh in on everything from using food as medicine to the value of organic food and the safety of the food we consume.

Ingredients - Narrated by actress Bebe Neuwirth, this engaging documentary weighs the shortcomings of America's industrialized food system against a rising local-growth movement, whose proponents are shrinking the gap between farmland and dinner table. With chefs Alice Waters and Greg Higgins as guiding lights, growers, restaurateurs and consumers around the country, from Oregon to Harlem, New York, discuss their methods for bringing food production back home.

All of the above films are available on Netflix instant play. They are inspiring and they will also piss you off when you learn what big corporations and pharmaceutical companies are allowed to get away with. As you continue your research, that is any of this really matters to you, you'll see the hand our government has and how elections are really won or supported.

If you dare, watch them all and let's get a thread going on what we can do to help put an end to it. You wanna grow some food? I'll tell you how. In fact we have a thread on sustainability and growing. I can't think of the name right now but if you're interested hit me up.

[Ebon]

Originally Posted by Sachita

There's lots of great documentaries that have facts


Deconstructing Supper - On a personal quest to understand our food choices, acclaimed chef John Bishop travels around the world exploring where genetically modified crops come from, whether they may be harmful and what alternative options currently exist. Through interviews with farmers, scientists and activists, this thought-provoking documentary offers substantial insight into the nuts and bolts of global food production.

The Future of Food - Before compiling your next grocery list, you might want to watch filmmaker Deborah Koons Garcia's eye-opening documentary, which sheds light on a shadowy relationship between agriculture, big business and government. By examining the effects of biotechnology on the nation's smallest farmers, the film reveals the unappetizing truth about genetically modified foods: You could unknowingly be serving them for dinner.

Food Matters (one of my favs)- With a staggering number of Americans suffering from obesity and other food-related maladies, this film takes a timely and hard-hitting look at how the food we eat is helping or hurting our health, and what we can do to live (and eat) better. Nutritionists, naturopaths, scientists, doctors, medical journalists and more weigh in on everything from using food as medicine to the value of organic food and the safety of the food we consume.

Ingredients - Narrated by actress Bebe Neuwirth, this engaging documentary weighs the shortcomings of America's industrialized food system against a rising local-growth movement, whose proponents are shrinking the gap between farmland and dinner table. With chefs Alice Waters and Greg Higgins as guiding lights, growers, restaurateurs and consumers around the country, from Oregon to Harlem, New York, discuss their methods for bringing food production back home.

All of the above films are available on Netflix instant play. They are inspiring and they will also piss you off when you learn what big corporations and pharmaceutical companies are allowed to get away with. As you continue your research, that is any of this really matters to you, you'll see the hand our government has and how elections are really won or supported.

If you dare, watch them all and let's get a thread going on what we can do to help put an end to it. You wanna grow some food? I'll tell you how. In fact we have a thread on sustainability and growing. I can't think of the name right now but if you're interested hit me up.

The only one of those I haven't seen is deconstructing supper. I'll check it out tomorrow if it's on Netflix along with that 1% doco.

[persiphone]

Originally Posted by Ebon

The only one of those I haven't seen is deconstructing supper. I'll check it out tomorrow if it's on Netflix along with that 1% doco.

and don't forget The End Of The Line. great flick. very depressing.

[Sachita]

Originally Posted by persiphone

and don't forget The End Of The Line. great flick. very depressing.

Is that the one about factory farming? Its too hard for me to watch these. I do, however drive and buy pasture grass fed meats. I don't eat meat often but when I do...

But you know a lot of people can watch the docs, cry, bitch and get upset but a week later still spend three days a week in a drive thru or buying steaks at sam's club. The truth is you love only the animals you can see and touch.

[SoNotHer]

Originally Posted by Ebon

Absolutely, we need local real food. Not GMO crops and not veggies from 2000 miles away.

Yes, we could, should, and will, and I would encourage anyone to start a garden at home (even a pot with a basil plant is a start) and look into permaculture and food forests and "edible landscaping." "Food forests" are already being created in places like Philadelphia, and permaculture is growing in presence and understanding = permacultures which allowed one California family to create enough food for itself on 1/10th an acre and be able to sustain itself financially selling food to upscale restaurants.

Industrial agriculture is highly problematic. 1) It is dependent on the petro-chemical cycle of propping up lifeless, ruined soil with fertilizers (petroleum based) and maintaining wide swaths of monocultures (like corn and soy) with herbcides/insecticides. It is therefore highly dependent on oil and oil prices, and is a large contributor to C02 emissions. 2) It demands high water use and contaminates water. 3) It promotes heavy soil loss. 4) It creates an unnatural representation of nature that is ripe for all of these conditions.

Permaculture works with the prevailing natural system and embraces, supports and promotes biodiversity, guilds of companion plants working together, and, frankly, a rich, beautiful and sustainable paradise. It also promotes social justice, sharing and planetary care.

Here is a good beginning, but there are many other videos available on You Tube:

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by SoNotHer

Yes, we could, should, and will, and I would encourage anyone to start a garden at home (even a pot with a basil plant is a start) and look into permaculture and food forests and "edible landscaping." "Food forests" are already being created in places like Philadelphia, and permaculture is growing in presence and understanding = permacultures which allowed one California family to create enough food for itself on 1/10th an acre and be able to sustain itself financially selling food to upscale restaurants.

Industrial agriculture is highly problematic. 1) It is dependent on the petro-chemical cycle of propping up lifeless, ruined soil with fertilizers (petroleum based) and maintaining wide swaths of monocultures (like corn and soy) with herbcides/insecticides. It is therefore highly dependent on oil and oil prices, and is a large contributor to C02 emissions. 2) It demands high water use and contaminates water. 3) It promotes heavy soil loss. 4) It creates an unnatural representation of nature that is ripe for all of these conditions.

Permaculture works with the prevailing natural system and embraces, supports and promotes biodiversity, guilds of companion plants working together, and, frankly, a rich, beautiful and sustainable paradise. It also promotes social justice, sharing and planetary care.

Here is a good beginning, but there are many other videos available on You Tube:

Container gardening at home is a really good way to have some fresh, organically grown produce and keep costs minimal. I am amazed at the amount of veggies I have been able to kick out with this. And you can plant winter veggies in containers, too. No way could I do in ground gardening with my arthritis (unless I had raised beds). I do live where there is a 2 x/week local farmers market closeby and that helps a lot.

I do understand that for some, their work hours and commute time might make it very difficult to do this- or any gardening. Some people just don't like gardening. But buying in season is helpful and buying from stores that do bring in local produce. Very small changes can make a big difference.