Justice as fairness: we can do better than we are

[Apocalipstic]

Originally Posted by betenoire

Trafficking of children and women does happen in the US today, no doubt.

But, you know. To compare actual legal slavery which did happen in the US (out in the open, legally, socially acceptable, ENCOURAGED, in gigantic numbers - if I remember correctly there were over 4 MILLION owned slaves in the US at the time slavery was abolished) to modern-day sex trafficking in the US (which is hidden, illegal, and there are several actual task forces in your country devoted to finding and freeing these women and children) is just kind of....wow.

I mean, the biggest evidence of change in human nature is the fact that what was considered normal and okay then is not considered normal and okay now. You can't deny that.

I do agree that crucifying people along the freeway is frowned upon these days. Agree 100%.

However, there here and now is what matters. International slavery is a huge problem and one we try our best to sweep under the rug and ignore because in our eyes its not as bad as it used to be. In my book its worse. Why? We know better now.

We still are OK with war and torture and political killings and secret prisons and thats just the US government.

[betenoire]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

So one form of slavery out trumps the other? Really?

WOW they are selling GIRLS so men can dismember them for fun. You're right only one kind of slavery should count.

Are you intentionally misreading me?

The point is: there has been progress. What was once perfectly okay, legal, encouraged is now the sort of thing that your government spends hundreds of millions of dollars to try to stop. That's progress. That's evidence of a shift in what "normal" means. That's evidence that the people we were 200 years ago are not the people we are today.

The point is not: Brandy clearly thinks that sex trafficking is no big deal and that only one kind of slavery counts.

[Apocalipstic]

I think in some areas there has been progress in others not.

I will get it in my head that we value human life more than we did 100 years ago...and then I turn on the news.

[Cin]

Originally Posted by betenoire

Are you intentionally misreading me?

I don’t think anyone is purposely misunderstanding what is said here anymore than anyone purposely misunderstood when it was being said that people in the U.S. should take the time to consider what it sounds like to other people from other countries who also live in America when we say things like “This is America love it or leave it” and instead understood what was being said, despite explanations to the contrary, that the United States should change its name, perhaps even use its longitude and latitude address.

[Apocalipstic]

I totally get that looking at things differently is difficult. Change is difficult.

[Julie]

In history, there is *perhaps* not a single civilization which did not experience some type of slavery.
Even European Christians experienced slavery by Muslim Masters and during the Roman Empire - Or so, that is what history (tainted or not) tell us.

I come from a long history of slavery. My people have been enslaved for close to 6,000 years and most recently ending when Hitler lost his reign. Does this make me the oldest descendant of slaves? Perhaps -- BUT, we certainly do not know this to be true. We do not know the history of the other lands during this time and certainly not thousands of years before.

What about the enslavement of the Maya and Inca tribes (and the other indigenous tribes of nations)? How do we look through time and not imagine the civilizations being built hundreds and thousands of years ago - even notably in Egypt? Do we dare say, these great structures were built by the hands of willing men and women? I would be foolish to think not.

And today, while The United States and many other countries are fighting the war on Human Trafficking - this is still happening today. Not only in the USA, but in a bountiful of other nations. Women and Children are sold as sex slaves, workers and traffickers of drugs. Not by their own choice - but by the hand of masters who enslave and own them. Legal or NOT - you cannot dissect the word "Slavery," and make it work for one people and not another.

In some form or another - Most of us did not originate from the America's - Some of us were forced here as slaves and some of us came to escape slavery in our homelands. There are VERY FEW pure white people on this land, except perhaps the White Christian Europeans who landed here, only to take the land from the Indigenous people of this land.

I am Julie and I am the direct descendant of a very strong people. My people have survived thousands of years of slavery and slaughter - As have many of the people here. African and Latin Descent and Many others -- Even as stated above, those European White Christians, who later enslaved many of us.

Can we be ANGRY at the United States for even allowing the African slave trade? Damn right. It shames me beyond belief that this country in which I was born was so self-righteous and entitled. I am sure those in other countries feel the same shame as I do.

Julie

[Apocalipstic]

Snow, you have not gone wrong. What you are saying is true and you have incredible insight on this subject.

[ruffryder]

There will be a drug war if the latin countries got together. All of them will want to be the head honcho. You all are going to tell me there will not be? Look at El Paso Tx, Mexico border and look at Columbia. . not to mention Puerto Rico and Cuba. Drugs. I'm not being racist. I'm being realistic. Forget I said latin countries. That was brought up prior to my statement. I used it to make a point that no matter what countries you try and put together to live as one. There will be war.