Outing our children...

[MsTinkerbelly]

School on defensive after telling parents their son is gayBy Sylvia Wood, msnbc.com

A school district in Utah is defending its decision to “out” a middle-school student as gay to his parents in light of safety and bullying concerns.

“The administrator did exactly the right thing,” said Rhonda Bromley, a spokeswoman for the Alpine School District in Lehi, Utah. “We are not going to back down. We take bullying very, very seriously.”

The Gay, Lesbian & Straight Education Network urged caution in these situations.

“Schools should not out LGBT students without their consent,” said GLSEN Executive Director Eliza Byard. “Outing a student not only violates their right to privacy, but also could compromise their safety. Parents can be notified of their child being bullied at school, but without disclosing their sexual orientation or gender identity.”

The situation started last week when the 14-year-old’s class at Willowcreek Middle School was assigned to create an advertisement about themselves to hang on the classroom wall. The boy wrote about being gay, Bromley said.

When the teacher approached him about whether he wanted to share that information publicly, the boy said he did. The teacher decided to involve the assistant school principal, who spoke with the boy and counseled him on talking with his parents.

The student was hesitant to approach his parents, but agreed “reluctantly” to let the administrator to speak with them, Bromley said. At the boy’s request, he was not present when his parents were told.

“The student chose himself to make his sexuality known in a variety of ways,” Bromley said. “And there had already started to be some negative feedback.”

“If there is the potential for a bullying or a harassment situation, it’s the responsibility of the school to step in and to make sure the student is safe,” she said.

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School districts across the country are struggling with anti-gay bullying in light of highly publicized cases involving teen suicides. In October 2010, the suicide death of two teen boys prompted U.S. Secretary of Education Arne Duncan to issue a call for action.

Their deaths followed at least three other suicides that year linked to “the trauma of being bullied and harassed for their actual or perceived sexual orientation was too much to bear,” Duncan said at the time.

“This is a moment where every one of us -- parents, teachers, students, elected officials, and all people of conscience -- needs to stand up and speak out against intolerance in all its forms,” he said.

Byard said it’s important for schools to deal with bullying and notify parents of any instances, without disclosing a student’s sexual orientation or gender identity.

"Taking away the choice for a LGBT student to come out on their own terms opens the door to significant risks, including harassment at school and family rejection," she said.

Andy Thayer, co-founder of the Gay Liberation Network, said family rejection is a real risk, and some young gay teens have found themselves homeless as a result.

The school "could very well have worsened that situation considerably," he said.

Bromley said the case at Alpine School District has drawn national attention, in part, because the student’s friends created a Facebook page, which has since turned into a an invitation-only group. The original page, which received more than 400 “likes,” asked students and supporters to write the assistant principal in defense of the student.

Bromley said some of the information on the original page was inaccurate, including the claim that the district suspended the boy. She said his parents chose to keep him home this week.

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“We’ve received many phone calls and emails from many people based on inaccurate information,” she said. She said the boy was never in trouble and the goal of the district was to keep him safe.

“The last thing we want is for students to think there would be some sort of consequence for this,” she said.

[MsTinkerbelly]

So, what do you think about the article? Do you think the School District did the right thing?

[MsTinkerbelly]

I have to get to work, but I'll be back later.

My gut reaction was "OMG, are they going to feed and house that child if his parents throw him out?"

[betenoire]

That was some serious overstepping on the school's part. Uncool.

I would have been angry had it been me OR my kid.

(And plus, it almost feels like "tattling".)

[Kobi]

Originally Posted by MsTinkerbelly

So, what do you think about the article? Do you think the School District did the right thing?

I keep reading the story over and over. It sounds to me like the young man outed himself in a number of ways within the school environment and was experiencing some negative repercussions as a result.

Having done so, he put the school in an unenviable position of being between a rock and a hard place.

Schools are expected to deal with bullying behavior and protect the safety and wellbeing of the student. The school did discuss this with the boy and I presume they explored the reasons for his reluctance to come out to his parents himself. The child did give permission even if it was reluctantly. The child is still a child, a minor.

I played this out in my head a bit.

Suppose the school just told the parents the child was being subjected to harrassment type behavior. My reaction as a parent would be to ask why. Why is my child being subjected to this? What is going on that my child has to deal with this negative behavior. The school is again caught between a rock and a hardplace. They have to continue to sidestep the elephant in the room thereby creating more drama and diversion and confusion. Hard to maintain this and does little to help anyone.

Suppose the school did nothing and this child was so harrassed that he harmed himself. Then I can see the parents and a general outrage that the parents had a right to know the truth so they could take steps to protect their child.

Plus, I dont believe it is fair to automatically presume the parents will throw the kid on the street or have any negative reaction. That is one many possibilities. It is also possible the parents knew their kid was gay but were waiting for him to bring it up. It is possible getting this out in the open is a good thing rather than a bad thing.

As a parent, in a perfect world, I would love my child to have the freedom to come to me when he felt safe to do so. If he was unable to do it directly, I would prefer learning about it in a way other than rumor, innuendo, facebook, and the other hideous ways people try to hurt one another.

I dont know what the best course of action would have been. But I do know there are consequences to the decisions we make. If you are a minor who outed yourself at school and are experiencing problems as a result, the school is put in a position of having to respond in some way.

Plus, once you out yourself in a very public way, how is the school supposed to protect your privacy?

[Greyson]

I believe the school district's intention was the child's safety. IMO, part of the problem with many of our social ills is that "parents" do not take a committed and active part in the parenting, raising of their child. The system alone cannot give the young ones love, support, guidance, safety.

Adults were telling my mother I was gay when I was about 11 or 12 years old. I said nothing. I was just being a typical tween filled with angst. Again at the age of 18 I was outed but this time, I did step up to the plate and told my mom the truth, Yes I am gay. I like girls.

I suspect the school district is in a position of "Damned if you do; Damned if you don't." The young person's safety is the priority. How can one stay silent about the very reason the child is being bullied? The parents could spend years trying to provide safety for their gay son while believing the bullying is promted by something completely unrelated.

[The_Lady_Snow]

As a parent if any of my kids outed themselves at school before they had to me I would hope the school would make me aware of it so I know what to do for them. Same thing with anything that my child is doing at school that I SHOULD and DO have the right to know. I'm one of those pesty, nosy, up in your business kinda parents, I like to have open communication at all times via me, kid and school.

Then again I am also one of those parents who isn't gonna kick their kid out for hearing news of their kids sexual activities. I'm unsure on how one expects a school to handle something like this, if parents are unaware of the goings on of their children, and the Institution you are trusting each day as your kid enters its doors knows of something that could cause one's child harm I feel as the parent, provider, etc etc I do have the RIGHT to know. I get not all kids parents are like this and some may over react if that is the case then we are talking about a whole other subject on how CPS does not do enough in some cases (not all) when it comes down to how our children are treated, abused, and neglected in this country..

I don't feel the school did it out of any other intent than giving the parents the heads up on what may, has, can, will, could, happen considering how many kids are being harassed for being queer, gay, lesbian, transgender.

[always2late]

One question...did the school also notify the parents' of the bullies to tell them that their children are hateful and ignorant? Did they speak to those parents about what they can do to make their children better human beings? It would seem to me that if you want to prevent harassment, you should go to the source not the victim.

[dark_crystal]

i think if the child was comfortable enough at school(!) to put a sign on the classroom wall saying he was gay, but had not told his parents, that is a really good clue that the parents might not take it very well.

(although i personally would have loved it if anyone else in the world could have told my parents besides me. that was an ugly scene.)

Possibly the smarter thing would have been to bring the parents in and provide a safe space, with counselor present, in which the child could tell them himself

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by woodstock

One question...did the school also notify the parents' of the bullies to tell them that their children are hateful and ignorant? Did they speak to those parents about what they can do to make their children better human beings? It would seem to me that if you want to prevent harassment, you should go to the source not the victim.

Me personally and I've done this in the past, I get one sniff or hint my child is being harrassed, you bet your ass I am gonna be at that school, waiting, insisting that me, my kid, the kids, and the kids parent, along with school officials have a little talk, and it will be made clear if the child or children that are fucking with my kid continue to do so, I won't stop until something is done be it a charge, expulsion, change of school something better be done or it's gonna get publicly ugly... I feel in these particular times as parents of school age children it is our duty to show up at that school and make some noise...

[MsTinkerbelly]

Such great responces everyone...very thoughtful, and thought provoking as well.

Do I think the School District was wrong in outing the student...If the outing did not include bringing in the parents of the children doing the harrassing, then yes I think they were wrong. Maybe school wasn't the best place for this boy to come out, but with the attention being put soley on him as "the problem", I believe the the School District is sending the wrong message to the parents, school, community, and to the child himself.

He "agreed" to the school telling his folks? At 14 I did everything I was told to do by those in "authority"; that was the way I was raised. So did he agree because he thought it was the best option, or was it given as his only option to stop the harrassing?

I am also a parent, so I want to know everything happening with my child...but I was a safe person for my daughter to tell that she thought she was bi-sexual...did the School know what they could have done? The child is out of school this week...being "re-educated" by the parents and Church? I had a friend that was dragged from therapist to therapist in search of a "cure" when she was young; she tried to kill herself several times because her Mom said it was better to have a dead daughter than a gay daughter.

At what point, and in what circumstances should our children expect to be protected without feeling as though they have caused the bullying and harrassing?

[Gemme]

Our schools and classrooms have many tasks and responsibilities. Outing a child is not one of them.

There are a significant number of ways that that conversation could have been worded to let the parents know that bullying behavior was going on without revealing that information.

Someone mentioned that maybe it's not a good idea since the child was fine with peers knowing but not his own parents. I agree. I also think, in this day and age, that there's more to be worried about than if they are going to throw him out on the street. Families keep a lot of secrets.

How would those who were so gung ho about outing him feel if they found out that he'd had his ass beat for it? That he was thrown out? That his parents were sending him to a church ordered facility to de-gay him?

Inappropriate.

[greeneyedgrrl]

i've read the responses and the articles and i agree that the school was in a difficult position and probably did their best in the situation. could they have done it differently/better? i think they could have. i believe that there is a good possibility that the child was coerced (whether that was intent or not) into allowing them to tell his parents.

it seems that people are saying that because he came out publicly in one are of his life, that gives the school (or anyone else for that matter) the right to out him somewhere else? i disagree wholeheartedly with that. i am out in all areas of my life, but I get to choose to whom, where and how i come out. i also allow my daughter to choose with whom, how and where she comes out. she has never been out at school and has selected a few friends to be out to, and i fully support her choice.

i believe it's the same in this situation, the child knows better than anyone else where he feels safe. i believe they could talk to the parents about the bullying and even the content of the bullying without confirming or denying the child's sexuality. they could approach it from the standpoint that the child is being bullied based on other children's perception of him (it doesn't matter whether the perception is accurate), and make a plan for safety based on that.

i think that what the school did was better than sticking their heads in the sand, and i think the outcome would've been greatly improved if they had contacted an lgbt group like glsen prior to taking action. hopefully they will take this as a learning/growth experience and see it as an opportunity to do better next time.

[princessbelle]

Wow what a great discussion.

It is really hard to know how best to deal with this and at first glance and i went back and forth. But, after thinking about both ways and how to deal with it, i believe, like the ones that posted this already, the school did what they thought was best.

Like Kobi said, what if he had committed suicide due to the bullying and no one had told the parents, then who would be "up the creek". The teacher knew....it's either do something or stay silent. As with any profession, there is an inherent responsibility to step forward, even when it is uncomfortable or you are not sure if it is best. With good intensions, it is best practice not to stay silent when you feel someone may be in danger (talking about the bullying here).

What if those bullies had beat that kid to death or anything like that. Again, who would be the fall guy? The teacher who knew the "why" and did nothing.

As someone else said, the teacher could just say the child is bullied and left it at that, but I still feel it was good for the school to explain what they knew (as the child made it public at school). It may have been diff if the child had told a teacher in private or the teacher suspected. He didn't seem to want his parents to know but did want the school peers to know. It would have got back to the parents eventually anyway. Come on, like me, many have been on school boards and the PTO. Nothing is a secret.

IMO at least it is being discussed, handled the best that they (school officials) can. The child is a minor the ultimate responsibilty for that child is the parents and if they mess this up, the state.

I think the school did right. Again, MHO

[Kobi]

Ms Tink, you ask very pertinent and difficult questions.

I didnt get the impression from the article that this child was being singled out in any way. He made the decision to out himself in various ways. The school discussed his decision with him which to me is the supportive thing to do.

The school then acted when he started running into negative reactions. To me, that is protecting a child. I suspect, being 14, he didnt have a clue as to the potential consequences of his decision. The school did. And the consequences affect a lot more people than just this one child.

There is a lot here we dont know. As is common with news reports, things are written in such a way as to evoke a reaction with a paucity of necessary information to fully understand what all was involved and to form a considered opinion based on fact rather than conjecture.

For example, we dont know what actions the school took against those exhibiting the negative behavior. The fact they moved to protect this child as best they could in a no win situation makes me believe they do take bullying and protecting children from bullies seriously. Yet we do not know what specific actions they may have taken. Nor do we know exactly what negative reactions were occuring.

We dont know what the school discussed with this child, what his reaction was to it or what was fueling his "reluctance". They do, we dont. And given that this child chose to make an advertisement about being gay that he wanted publicly displayed in the school, but was reluctant to tell his parents, makes me think there is more to this story than meets the eye.

In the same vein, we dont know why his parents decided to keep him out of school for a week. Did they drag him off to a debriefing center? Need more than a week for that. Did they decide they needed some family time to absorb this and reconnect with one another? Did the school suggest, for his protection, that he remain at home while they dealt with the perpetrators and the potential for backlash while they did so? Dont know.

As someone who has often had to make difficult decisions in situations where others where unable or unwilling to protect themselves, this isnt something anyone acting in a professional capacity should take lightly. The risks are too high. Thus, if one is going to make an error, even after careful consideration of all the options, one should err on the side of caution. Deciding what is caution versus what is risk is often a judgement call.

What is confusing me in this particular situation, and this may just be because of the way the article is written, is whether the school was acting based on what was actually occuring or based on what could potentially occur.

[MsTinkerbelly]

Originally Posted by Kobi

What is confusing me in this particular situation, and this may just be because of the way the article is written, is whether the school was acting based on what was actually occuring or based on what could potentially occur.

I snipped a bit...

I also had a hard time with the wording of quite a bit of the story...from what I got from the story, PRIOR to his outing himself there had been some negative attention from his peer group in regards to his possible orientation. Was his outing of himself an attempt to call attention to the harrassment already occuring in a way that the School/School District would "have to do something", or a somewhat misguided attempt to give his peers a greater insight into the whole person he is, rather than the label they were attempting to give him?

I too wonder how the story will unfold, and if there will be anything further that is "newsworthy". I hope for his sake he has wonderful and loving parents, I did...but so many do not.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by Gemme

Our schools and classrooms have many tasks and responsibilities. Outing a child is not one of them.

There are a significant number of ways that that conversation could have been worded to let the parents know that bullying behavior was going on without revealing that information.

Someone mentioned that maybe it's not a good idea since the child was fine with peers knowing but not his own parents. I agree. I also think, in this day and age, that there's more to be worried about than if they are going to throw him out on the street. Families keep a lot of secrets.

How would those who were so gung ho about outing him feel if they found out that he'd had his ass beat for it? That he was thrown out? That his parents were sending him to a church ordered facility to de-gay him?

Inappropriate.

The part about being gung ho on outing him is where I think we fail our children by not being invested in them like we should be. (I bet if this was a dog story more folks would put their noses in it) If the child starts showing signs of abuse, or if he suddenly *disappears* ANY sign that the news was received in a negative way, as counselors, teachers, school workers neighborswe should pay attention to what is happening to our children. CPS, the Police, any official that has knowledge of a child that could possibly help any child out especially our gay youth since they seem to end up on the streets so much.

I also think that *facilities* or any kind of religion mumbo jumbo that is used in an abusive way, manipulative way, hostage forming way should be SHUT DOWN and they should be charged with some form of crime against the children..

No amount of electro shock praying is gonna take the gay away, we are who we are, the devices, methods, lies that are used to try to do so should be against the law.....

There's my rant on that thank you for listening

[Gemme]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

The part about being gung ho on outing him is where I think we fail our children by not being invested in them like we should be. (I bet if this was a dog story more folks would put their noses in it) If the child starts showing signs of abuse, or if he suddenly *disappears* ANY sign that the news was received in a negative way, as counselors, teachers, school workers neighborswe should pay attention to what is happening to our children. CPS, the Police, any official that has knowledge of a child that could possibly help any child out especially our gay youth since they seem to end up on the streets so much.

I also think that *facilities* or any kind of religion mumbo jumbo that is used in an abusive way, manipulative way, hostage forming way should be SHUT DOWN and they should be charged with some form of crime against the children..

No amount of electro shock praying is gonna take the gay away, we are who we are, the devices, methods, lies that are used to try to do so should be against the law.....

There's my rant on that thank you for listening

You may be right about the dog part.

I pretty much agree with your whole post. I just think the school should have handled it a little differently. I AM glad, though, that they were intent on helping him and not ignoring the issue of bullying. Very glad. Sadly, they seem to be in the minority on this subject.

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by MsTinkerbelly

School on defensive after telling parents their son is gayBy Sylvia Wood, msnbc.com

A school district in Utah is defending its decision to “out” a middle-school student as gay to his parents in light of safety and bullying concerns.

“The administrator did exactly the right thing,” said Rhonda Bromley, a spokeswoman for the Alpine School District in Lehi, Utah. “We are not going to back down. We take bullying very, very seriously.”

The Gay, Lesbian & Straight Education Network urged caution in these situations.

“Schools should not out LGBT students without their consent,” said GLSEN Executive Director Eliza Byard. “Outing a student not only violates their right to privacy, but also could compromise their safety. Parents can be notified of their child being bullied at school, but without disclosing their sexual orientation or gender identity.”

The situation started last week when the 14-year-old’s class at Willowcreek Middle School was assigned to create an advertisement about themselves to hang on the classroom wall. The boy wrote about being gay, Bromley said.

When the teacher approached him about whether he wanted to share that information publicly, the boy said he did. The teacher decided to involve the assistant school principal, who spoke with the boy and counseled him on talking with his parents.

The student was hesitant to approach his parents, but agreed “reluctantly” to let the administrator to speak with them, Bromley said. At the boy’s request, he was not present when his parents were told.

“The student chose himself to make his sexuality known in a variety of ways,” Bromley said. “And there had already started to be some negative feedback.”


“If there is the potential for a bullying or a harassment situation, it’s the responsibility of the school to step in and to make sure the student is safe,” she said.

advertisementadvertisement
School districts across the country are struggling with anti-gay bullying in light of highly publicized cases involving teen suicides. In October 2010, the suicide death of two teen boys prompted U.S. Secretary of Education Arne Duncan to issue a call for action.

Their deaths followed at least three other suicides that year linked to “the trauma of being bullied and harassed for their actual or perceived sexual orientation was too much to bear,” Duncan said at the time.

“This is a moment where every one of us -- parents, teachers, students, elected officials, and all people of conscience -- needs to stand up and speak out against intolerance in all its forms,” he said.

Byard said it’s important for schools to deal with bullying and notify parents of any instances, without disclosing a student’s sexual orientation or gender identity.

"Taking away the choice for a LGBT student to come out on their own terms opens the door to significant risks, including harassment at school and family rejection," she said.

Andy Thayer, co-founder of the Gay Liberation Network, said family rejection is a real risk, and some young gay teens have found themselves homeless as a result.

The school "could very well have worsened that situation considerably," he said.

Bromley said the case at Alpine School District has drawn national attention, in part, because the student’s friends created a Facebook page, which has since turned into a an invitation-only group. The original page, which received more than 400 “likes,” asked students and supporters to write the assistant principal in defense of the student.

Bromley said some of the information on the original page was inaccurate, including the claim that the district suspended the boy. She said his parents chose to keep him home this week.

advertisementadvertisement
“We’ve received many phone calls and emails from many people based on inaccurate information,” she said. She said the boy was never in trouble and the goal of the district was to keep him safe.

“The last thing we want is for students to think there would be some sort of consequence for this,” she said.

From the above I am guessing that one or two negative comments from students were made and the school is worried that bullying WILL occur. If you notice no where does the article say that the child has been bullied.

Unless someone was going to call the parents of every child who gets "negative feedback" and who they assume will continue to get negative feedback, then no, I don't think this child's parents should have been contacted. The boy's thoughts and feelings are his own to share with who he wants, when he wants (including who he sexually desires). It was not the school's information to share.

I think it was the school's anxiety that this kid would end up being bullied/hurt and that the parents would be angry with the school for "letting this happen". I think they pulled the trigger early so the parents wouldn't hold them accountable. The problem is that taking this easy way out means that they took away a child's CHOICE to not share something with his parents until he was ready.

[greeneyedgrrl]

Originally Posted by DapperButch

From the above I am guessing that one or two negative comments from students were made and the school is worried that bullying WILL occur. If you notice no where does the article say that the child has been bullied.

Unless someone was going to call the parents of every child who gets "negative feedback" and who they assume will continue to get negative feedback, then no, I don't think this child's parents should have been contacted. The boy's thoughts and feelings are his own to share with who he wants, when he wants (including who he sexually desires). It was not the school's information to share.

I think it was the school's anxiety that this kid would end up being bullied/hurt and that the parents would be angry with the school for "letting this happen". I think they pulled the trigger early so the parents wouldn't hold them accountable. The problem is that taking this easy way out means that they took away a child's CHOICE to not share something with his parents until he was ready.

^^what hy said. i agree... and i want to reiterate that even if there was bullying based on his orientation, it could've been done without outing him. the focus should stay on the unacceptable (bullying) behavior, not on the orientation/whatever of the target.