2012 US General Election Discussions: Start to Finish

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by MsDemeanor

If you combine 8 and 10, the logical conclusion is that he believes his daughter should be denied health insurance coverage for life due to a pre-existing condition from birth. I doubt that he is capable of connecting the dots....

That's for sure! I was thinking this very thing. Then, there is Paul's "just let them die" stance due to not having insurance. Both of these stances just don't ring as respect for the sanctity of life these yahoos "appear" to believe so deeply in.

Between these two and Newt's total grandiosity about the whole damn election being about him is just nuts. I might have to tune into the debate Saturday to see if he goes postal on air versus Romney. Gingrich is something else- playing the "no going negative" sing song. He invented negative politics. After reading more about his mother's mental illness and the first marriage at age 19 to his HS teacher (Jackie) to which his mother said "raised him the rest of the way," I think his mental instability is quite clear.

And these people are running for president!

[Toughy]

So I am driving home from the VA listening to progressive radio....randi rhodes...and I hear 2 stories about Romney and Santorium and I had heard the Santorium one on Rachel last night.

Romney: He is taking his family on the 'great american road trip vacation' and they are going to take Seamus the Irish Setter family dog with them. Romney STRAPS Seamus to the roof of the vehicle....no not in a crate, actually just strapped down to the roof.........and drives off for vacation. Randi was not sure if the dog lived or not. But this kind of stupidity makes sense to me since Mitt (as an adult male Mormon) wears magic underwear.

Santorium: His wife had a stillborn 26 week old baby...that's 6.5 months...a sad thing for his family. Well, Santorium and wife leave the hospital by loading their other children (one as young as 2 yrs old) AND THE DEAD BABY, in mom's arms in the car and drive across Pennsylvania to grandma's house so grandma can hold and commune with the dead baby. Apparently all the kids got to hold and commune with the dead baby during the car trip. They have the dead baby with the family for about 24 hours before they take it to the mortuary.

I really wish the mainstream Republicans would take back their party. Not one of the Republicans in the race should be President. Even Jon Huntsman has been forced to take far right wing stances on things like abortion. And Jon Huntsman and Ron Paul are the ONLY Republicans in the race (past and present) who understand and believe evolution is the basis for life on this planet. The rest of them think their God created the world in 7 days and believe that is science.

I am getting tired of all of them. Let Nov come very very quickly.

[Julien]

Separation of church and state, what's that? Santorum's view. It is not a good thing.


http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/05/opinio...ss_igoogle_cnn

[Kobi]

This story doesnt do the interchanges justice. The local news had better coverage. I was especially pleased to see young metrosexual looking folks asking very pertinent questions for which the sanctimonious one had few useful retorts. They booed him right out of the building. Made me proud.

------------------------------------------------------

A crowd of mostly college-aged students at a New Hampshire town hall booed Rick Santorum when he compared gay marriage to polygamy. Santorum spoke at the College Convention 2012, a forum organized by New England College, which apparently drew a politically diverse crowd. BuzzFeed's Rosie Gray* transcribes the exchange between the student and Santorum:

"How you justify your belief based on these morals you have about all men being created equal when two men who want to marry the person that they love --"

Santorum cut her off and said "What about three men ... If you think it's ok for two, you have to differentiate with me why it's not OK for three."

The New York Times reports that people booed specifically when Santorum said "If you’re not happy unless you’re married to five other people, is that O.K.?” And some in the crowd booed again at the conclusion of the session. This is of course not the first time Santorum has caused conflict with his slippery slope-ish arguments. It also reminds us of Mitt Romney's very tense Q&A with the audience at a New Hampshire event Wednesday, where an Occupy Boston representative and a Chinese-American woman both asked Romney semi-hostile questions. With the Iowa caucuses over, it's "No More Mr. Nice Midwestern Crowd." More like "Live Free or Die" we suppose.

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/polit...arriage/47056/

[Kobi]

WARNING: Major sarcasm to follow. Try not to miss it


The Republican stuff to date has been kind of interesting to watch.

Romney, as my former governor, is just being himself....a fast talking used car salesman who is so slick most people dont even realize a lot of what he is promising is already in place. They also fail to remember Obamacare is just a federal enactment of the Romneycare he pushed thru this state i.e. mandatory health insurance, penalties for not having it, subsidies for premiums, cant be denied coverage etc. Of course Mitt rammed this thru without any mechanism in place to pay for it and then hightailed it out of the state. (It is a decent and affordable alternative to costly private insurance.) I see Mitt and I have the urge to duct tape his mouth shut just on principle.

Santorum, amuses me. He tries so hard to be sanctimonious. But all I can think of is he is fodder for a SNL skit on "Welcome to the Santitarium of Rick's Mind where the pretty colored pills can cure what ails you." He will play well in the Bible belt but, I expect, he will fizzle even quicker than Perry and Cain. People have real everyday concerns i.e. jobs, the housing crisis, the economic meltdown, the loss of savings and financial security, health care. Gay marriage, rehashing abortions, and the rest of the emotion/faith based stuff some republicans fall back on when they have nothing else of substance to offer, I expect will come back to bite them in the ass given the logistical issues of mere survival these days.

I like Ron Paul. He reminds me of Frank Perdue. I keep waiting for an advertisement of him espousing a "chicken in every pot". Seriously tho, I wouldnt vote for him but his economic stuff has some merit.

OMG I forgot Newt. When I think of Newt which is never, I see 3 witches hovering over a boiling cauldron. One says, "the recipe says add an eye of Newt. F*&^ it. I want this batch to be extra strong. Throw all of him in there!"

(End of sarcasm)



The person getting a lot of play here lately is Jon Huntsman. The Boston Globe has endorsed him, people around town are talking about him. Have to do some research cuz I dont know anything about him. Any one have any insights on where he stands on stuff?

Elections always worry me, more so during tough times. IMO, American voters are notorious for being un and undereducated consumers who have relatively narrow focuses when evaluating candidates during the best of times. They seem to have absolute tunnel vision during difficult times. This makes them very unpredicable and prone to vote with their emotions rather than their heads.

Kind of gives new meaning to....it was the best of times, it was the worst of times.

[Cin]

Originally Posted by Kobi

The person getting a lot of play here lately is Jon Huntsman. The Boston Globe has endorsed him, people around town are talking about him. Have to do some research cuz I dont know anything about him. Any one have any insights on where he stands on stuff?

Here is a little something about Jon Huntsman. I left out the obvious stuff like who he is, how rich he is, how like Romney he is etc. And concentrated on his ideas. And how the moderate label seems to mean that he’s not crazy like the rest of the Republican candidates but his ideas are eerily similar. That’s how they get ya, smoke and mirrors. You’re just happy to be able to vote for someone who doesn’t need to be committed. Anyway there are a few quotes, some of his platform, and, of course, commentary by yours truly.

“As governor of Utah I signed every pro-life bill that came to my desk,” Hunstman told the crowd. “I signed the bill that made second-trimester abortions illegal, and increased the penalty for doing so. I signed the bill to allow women to know the pain an abortion causes an unborn child. I signed the bill requiring parental permission for abortion. I signed the bill that would trigger a ban on abortions in Utah if Roe v. Wade was overturned.”

“I do not believe the Republican party should focus only on our economic life — to the neglect of our human life,” he said. “That is a trade we should not make. If Republicans ignore life, the deficit we will face is one that is much more destructive. It will be a deficit of the heart and of the soul.”

In 2004 Huntsman supported Utah’s constitutional amendment outlawing marriage for gays and lesbians, but then later strongly supported a 2009 initiative to allow civil unions.

Apparently most of Huntsman’s economic policy is tax reform. And most of it will hurt the working class and help the rich especially lowering the corporate tax rate from 35% to 25% and eliminating capital gains and dividend tax rates. He also claims to want to eliminate all tax deductions, credits, and loopholes. I guess that would hurt or help everyone equally depending on how you look at it. But I don’t see much there that will actually help the economy.

Huntsman claims to want stuff to be made in the US once again but he wants to open up trade even more. Free trade agreements are what make it so easy for companies to take their money, their business and their jobs offshore in the first place. We need huge tariffs not less or NO tariffs. If we don’t tax imports from US corporations who do no business in the US, the economy, the infrastructure and the country itself will continue with its downward spiral. No matter how many tax cuts we give businesses and corporations, no matter how much government money we make available to businesses and corporations it will not help the people in the US unless we force corporations to pay for importing goods into the US, which will either generate money for government spending or force corporations to stay and make stuff in the US which will create jobs at home. It’s not rocket science. It’s just logical. And to continue to say otherwise, which is what politicians/elected officals insist on doing is just outright lying.

Yet the meme continues to be that giving money and tax breaks to corporations and the rich will result in jobs for the rest of us. When clearly anyone with a coherent thought process can see that nothing even remotely like this is happening or has been happening. And unless some laws are changed it will continue to NOT happen. This throwing money at corporations and the rich and getting nothing in return has been the case for a very long time. And since it would be impossible to be in politics and not understand the idiocy of this oft regurgitated propaganda about this behavior resulting in jobs, I can only surmise it is a purposeful deceit that is willingly propagated in order to further the interests of the rich and powerful regardless of the result to the rest of us and to the country itself.

I’ve yet to see a politician running for president who seems to actually give a fat rat’s ass about the country.

Jon Huntsman purports to be a moderate republican. I think he is a wolf in sheep’s clothing. He is someone whose supposed politics will be such that voters may be able to tolerate them so he looks to be quite dangerous to me. Dangerous because he is just another potential political arm for big business like Obama is, but he is also a right wing conservative dressed up for public consumption and that could be even more costly in the end. It’s possible I could be just a paranoid conspiracy theorist. However, neither of those options are mutually exclusive.

Here is an article about Huntsman:
“'Moderate' Jon Huntsman Releases Right-Wing 'Jobs' Plan
http://www.thenation.com/blog/163098...wing-jobs-plan

“Huntsman, a former Utah Governor, positions himself as the sane, mainstream alternative to the wingnuts that make up the rest of the Republican field. But the plan is a compendium of conservative hobbyhorses.

The vast majority of his plan has nothing to do with creating jobs, at least in the short term. He focuses heavily on “regulatory reform,” which sounds like some non-ideological effort to streamline government but is mostly code for pandering to the Tea Party. Huntsman would repeal the Dodd-Frank financial reform bill and the Affordable Care Act. He would “Dramatically Rein In The EPA” and “Curb The Excesses”—meaning eviscerate the essential regulatory power— of agencies like the National Labor Relations Board. All of this will please the Koch brothers, but what it has to do with spurring hiring in the near future is unclear, especially since conservatives like to moan about business being unable to hire in a climate of uncertainty. What they mean by uncertainty, it turns out, is if a business owner doesn’t know if his top marginal income tax rate might go up by four points when the Bush tax cuts expire. The uncertainty of proposing enormous alterations to existing law is apparently no problem at all.”

[Novelafemme]

Since Kobi brought up Ron Paul, does anyone else feel comfortable sharing their thoughts on him with us? I am taking a serious look at him but have never voted any other way than a full Democratic ticket.

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by Toughy

So I am driving home from the VA listening to progressive radio....randi rhodes...and I hear 2 stories about Romney and Santorium and I had heard the Santorium one on Rachel last night.

Romney: He is taking his family on the 'great american road trip vacation' and they are going to take Seamus the Irish Setter family dog with them. Romney STRAPS Seamus to the roof of the vehicle....no not in a crate, actually just strapped down to the roof.........and drives off for vacation. Randi was not sure if the dog lived or not. But this kind of stupidity makes sense to me since Mitt (as an adult male Mormon) wears magic underwear.

Santorium: His wife had a stillborn 26 week old baby...that's 6.5 months...a sad thing for his family. Well, Santorium and wife leave the hospital by loading their other children (one as young as 2 yrs old) AND THE DEAD BABY, in mom's arms in the car and drive across Pennsylvania to grandma's house so grandma can hold and commune with the dead baby. Apparently all the kids got to hold and commune with the dead baby during the car trip. They have the dead baby with the family for about 24 hours before they take it to the mortuary.

I really wish the mainstream Republicans would take back their party. Not one of the Republicans in the race should be President. Even Jon Huntsman has been forced to take far right wing stances on things like abortion. And Jon Huntsman and Ron Paul are the ONLY Republicans in the race (past and present) who understand and believe evolution is the basis for life on this planet. The rest of them think their God created the world in 7 days and believe that is science.

I am getting tired of all of them. Let Nov come very very quickly.

I so agree- the field of GOP candidates is mind boggling. Why the hell the mainstream GOP puts up with this mess is beyond me. What bothers me the most is that a very small group of the Tea Party religious fringe does have the nation held hostage! Just the idea that they think it is OK to NOT act to create jobs due to beating Obama is insane! People are hurting and Congress could act.

Mainly, however, I have had it with the infiltration of religion upon personal rights and freedoms that have no business being handled by government, period. That is BIG government! And i am someone that values faith and spirituality. But feel it is personal.

I don't see much changing as the country is so divided and the order of the day is to be as mean spirited as possible. We are almost evenly split down the middle and just caught up in this whirlwind of hatred.

[Cin]

Originally Posted by AtLast

I so agree- the field of GOP candidates is mind boggling. Why the hell the mainstream GOP puts up with this mess is beyond me. What bothers me the most is that a very small group of the Tea Party religious fringe does have the nation held hostage! Just the idea that they think it is OK to NOT act to create jobs due to beating Obama is insane! People are hurting and Congress could act.

Mainly, however, I have had it with the infiltration of religion upon personal rights and freedoms that have no business being handled by government, period. That is BIG government! And i am someone that values faith and spirituality. But feel it is personal.

I don't see much changing as the country is so divided and the order of the day is to be as mean spirited as possible. We are almost evenly split down the middle and just caught up in this whirlwind of hatred.

That the country could be so divided when they are given a group of crazies to chose from and one sane incumbent, albeit relatively indistinguishable from a republican president, doesn't say much about the sanity of the country in general.

Although I suppose part of the problem is that corporate owned Madmen types frenetically and adeptly spin lies into reality with such success and regularity that most citizens wouldn't recognize the honest truth if it sat down with them at church and introduced itself. The other part of the problem is that most people are too apathetic, disinterested and just plain lazy to root out the truth for themselves and even if they did they are poorly prepared to decipher it from the propaganda. We've been buying the lies for so long the truth is buried so deeply you need experience in excavation to get to it. Selling the Republican snake oil to people is easier than pie at this point. The last piece is its all too overwhelming and depressing to fight, people feel powerless. Better to be blissfully blind cheerfully kicking at the same old enemies we have been taught for years are to blame for any and all our problems. The usual suspects like poor people, immigrants, homeless, jobless, terrorists, drug dealers, foreigners, atheists, queers, feminists, people of color and pretty much anyone who tries to pull the wool from our eyes are to blame. The power elite have done their jobs well.

And despite all the conservative complaints about big government they are prepared to continue to make the part of the government that infringes on our personal freedoms as huge as they can. The best government would be one that has a religious component. The only part of government they want to shrink is the part of government that demands equal treatment and that wants the corporations and the rich to pay their fair share, the part of government that feels a sense of responsibility for all its citizens and would spend some of government money (our money) on social programs and infrastructure. That's what they mean by small government.

[*Anya*]

Originally Posted by Toughy

So I am driving home from the VA listening to progressive radio....randi rhodes...and I hear 2 stories about Romney and Santorium and I had heard the Santorium one on Rachel last night.

Romney: He is taking his family on the 'great american road trip vacation' and they are going to take Seamus the Irish Setter family dog with them. Romney STRAPS Seamus to the roof of the vehicle....no not in a crate, actually just strapped down to the roof.........and drives off for vacation. Randi was not sure if the dog lived or not. But this kind of stupidity makes sense to me since Mitt (as an adult male Mormon) wears magic underwear.

Santorium: His wife had a stillborn 26 week old baby...that's 6.5 months...a sad thing for his family. Well, Santorium and wife leave the hospital by loading their other children (one as young as 2 yrs old) AND THE DEAD BABY, in mom's arms in the car and drive across Pennsylvania to grandma's house so grandma can hold and commune with the dead baby. Apparently all the kids got to hold and commune with the dead baby during the car trip. They have the dead baby with the family for about 24 hours before they take it to the..."

Every time I think that I have read and heard it all, something else about these right-wing lunatics just leaves me so flabbergasted, I barely have words to articulate how I feel!

Truly, what has happened to the United States of America? What ever happened to separation of church, state and insanity?? When are the citizens of this country going to wake up and take the USA back to the principles on which it was founded ( though by a bunch of white bio men)?

What indeed ever happened to the Rebublican party? Even my 87-year-old father who has voted the ticket in every election since he was 21, told me thinks all the Republican candidates are a bunch of idiots.

I used to be a political activist but got away from it while trying to live my life and support my family but also because I got so discouraged and felt so disenfranchised as a woman and as a lesbian in this country. I have 3 granddaughters. I worry that abortion rights will be chipped away to zero by the time it will matter to them.

I just feel so frustrated by all of it.

[MsMerrick]

Originally Posted by Toughy

Santorium: His wife had a stillborn 26 week old baby...that's 6.5 months...a sad thing for his family. Well, Santorium and wife leave the hospital by loading their other children (one as young as 2 yrs old) AND THE DEAD BABY, in mom's arms in the car and drive across Pennsylvania to grandma's house so grandma can hold and commune with the dead baby. Apparently all the kids got to hold and commune with the dead baby during the car trip. They have the dead baby with the family for about 24 hours before they take it to the mortuary.



.

Apparently, the lesson he wished them to learn, was that that, was what abortion did..... From what I heard this morning...

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by MsMerrick

Apparently, the lesson he wished them to learn, was that that, was what abortion did..... From what I heard this morning...

This just is so creepy weird- and I believe it was his way to make an anti-aborion point to his kids.

I wonder if his wife really wanted to participate in this- post stillbirth. My Mom had to carry a dead fetus full term and give "birth"- from what she said about this experience (I wasn't born yet), she experienced both accute and post-truamatic stress symptoms. My parents had a service for the baby- with only themselves in attendance. It was a very personal loss for them and it sounded like they needed to just have this be between the two of them. This just feels so controlling in terms of his wife being in any state to think through doing this. He is just creepy!