A straight girl enters the queer world...

LaneyDoll · 03-12-2012, 03:07 PM

Ok, there are a few things here that concern me so I am going to address them one at a time.
I am in purple as usual...

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddysKitten

She seems to lack so much of the basic knowledge, yet feels her 'love' for him, is enough.

Is love really enough? Is it possible to have love without basic understanding? The first time I dated a stone butch, I read and read and read so that I might better understand where she was coming from. Did it help? Who knows? Things did not progress b/c we were too different to date BUT we are still good friends, over a year later. And when she needs advice or wants a jolt of reality, she calls me.

I find she is caught up more in her 'love' for what he offers her, especially since as Daddy puts it, trans-men and butches have a way into a woman that a bio-male could never even begin to attempt.

Here again. Is this "love" enough? Does she really love him or is she in love with the way he treats her when things are good because then we come into my third concern...

The second part of my issue, is that her lover, is highly emotional, and takes a lot of things really really personal, that aren't meant to be.

It sounds to me like he is still struggling with who he is. If he has not accepted his self, then how can she?

Just my thoughts at first glance, they may change later after I have had time to think about this some more.

aishah · 03-12-2012, 03:11 PM

i love what laney said.

i wanted to echo that response to the "love" issue - to me, love, at least in a relationship, requires some sort of commitment. it's not enough to get caught up in the honeymoon feelings. if you are in a relationship with someone loving them means being committed at least to being empathetic and compassionate towards them, and to not making them feel disrespected and unsafe (or at least putting in the effort). so - being caught up in the warm fuzzy feelings is awesome, but it seems like there's not a lot of feeling of responsibility to the partner here...and that i find kind of disconcerting.

LaneyDoll · 03-12-2012, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aishah

it seems like there's not a lot of feeling of responsibility to the partner here...and that i find kind of disconcerting.

I agree! And it seems to be coming from BOTH sides. But I do not think it is based in a mean way, I think it is because he does not yet know himself and she does not know how to make his journey easier because of this.

Toughy · 03-12-2012, 03:35 PM

Just some questions (they don't require an answer) and thoughts that came to mind......

Why are you giving her advice? I rarely ever give anyone advice. I can tell them what I feel or think or question about a situation, how I would act in that situation, but that is the extent of it. I rarely ever say 'I think you should ______' (I am probably nitpicking the meaning of advice)

You seem to be putting more effort in her relationship than she is. I'm thinking it should be the other way around as others have said. To me, it speaks volumes about her real interest in her partner/boyfriend. A pro-active role in understanding the many facets of a person is required.

I also think that at times folks have a tendency to pigeon-hole someone. He is much more than a transman. For a relationship to work folks need to focus on the individual rather than the label/id. Seeking general information about trans folks is also a good thing.

edited to add cuz I forgot it:
I"m wondering why he is in a relationship. It sounds like he has a lot of work to do himself....it is hard to do that in a new relationship

DeviantDaddy · 03-12-2012, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toughy

Just some questions (they don't require an answer) and thoughts that came to mind......

Why are you giving her advice? I rarely ever give anyone advice. I can tell them what I feel or think or question about a situation, how I would act in that situation, but that is the extent of it. I rarely ever say 'I think you should ______' (I am probably nitpicking the meaning of advice)

.....

edited to add cuz I forgot it:
I"m wondering why he is in a relationship. It sounds like he has a lot of work to do himself....it is hard to do that in a new relationship

Hi Toughy,
When we speak to her in regards to the matters she brings us, it is rarely ever in a manner of... 'I think you should do this' and so forth. The only exception to that has been our suggestion to join discussion boards (such as this one) and read up on a lot of the information that is available to the public. And as far as the person she is seeing, I have considered the very same thing. In speaking to him there are plenty of red flags that I have picked up on but am not getting in the middle of. Everything we speak of we simply answer questions she directly asks us and other times we're just there to listen.

I am certain that the very reason she turns to us is given the slight similarities in our circumstances. My kitten was very much a heterosexual woman who only dated cis-gender males until she met me. So she feel s as though we would be the best people to turn to in regards to her questions and such.

Toughy · 03-12-2012, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeviantDaddy

Hi Toughy,
When we speak to her in regards to the matters she brings us, it is rarely ever in a manner of... 'I think you should do this' and so forth. The only exception to that has been our suggestion to join discussion boards (such as this one) and read up on a lot of the information that is available to the public. And as far as the person she is seeing, I have considered the very same thing. In speaking to him there are plenty of red flags that I have picked up on but am not getting in the middle of. Everything we speak of we simply answer questions she directly asks us and other times we're just there to listen.

I am certain that the very reason she turns to us is given the slight similarities in our circumstances. My kitten was very much a heterosexual woman who only dated cis-gender males until she met me. So she feel s as though we would be the best people to turn to in regards to her questions and such.

I hope you did not take my comments to mean something negative towards You or Your kitten. I was addressing what was said and none of it was personal......

I certainly agree there are red flags on both their parts.....and I am damn sure glad I am not either one of them <grin>

Soft*Silver · 03-12-2012, 03:52 PM

If I had someone who was calling me and crying to me hours at night, I would wonder why they are needing me so much and if I am the one to answer their needs at all. And I would then examine why I am buying into this neediness. What purpose is it serving me??

Frankly, by the way its being described, I think its all overboard, both in the primary relationship, and in the way its being handled outside of the relationship

I have friends...with whom I have deeply rich, long term, even profound friendships. When my friends go thru bad times, I am there for them but not when I shouldnt be. Sometimes being a sounding board or a shoulder to cry on is actually detrimental. To both the crier and to the "shoulder". Sometimes what they need isnt me...

to personalize it....If my sub had so much of a problem with me and was sobbing about how bad the relationship is over and over again, to someone else, 1) I would want to know why he was still in a relationship with me, since no one makes you a victim unless you put yourself in those positions (I am not talking about abuse here. Abuse is a different matter and thats all about hostage taking)

2) If my sub had no clue about our relationship dynamics and my "label" as a Being, why isnt he investigating, researching, getting involved, etc. so that he can know what loving and respecting me entails..not to mention doing so for himself!

3) If he "loves" me but doesnt know me, then I am gonna really suspect that there isnt love there but neediness. This is a pet peeve of mine..people who proclaim love LONG before it is a true factor. When people do this, it means there is a hole inside them that they want someone else to fill. This, is the ugly D word. Dependency. If I let our relationship continue when there isnt real love established, its not just his fault, its mine too, and so then its on both of our parts and thats called CO-dependency.

one more thing

Imma gonna end by saying this: those who try to fix other people's relationships, don't. In fact, often they either make it last longer than it should, or sometimes they make it break up sooner than it should, if at all! I am not suggesting we shouldnt be there for friends who need us...but needing us as friends and being needy as a friend, are two separate things...one is about love, the other about dependency.

TickledPink · 03-12-2012, 04:24 PM

When it comes down to it, the TWO of them will have to figure it out. There is no book, friend, forum, etc that can do that for either of them.

Perhaps the journey will be a great growing experience for each!

Well-wishes!

03-12-2012, 03:35 PM	#4
Toughy Senior Member How Do You Identify?: pervert butch feminist woman Preferred Pronoun?: see above Relationship Status: independent entity Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Oakland Posts: 1,826 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 4,068 Thanked 7,654 Times in 1,523 Posts Rep Power: 21474854	Just some questions (they don't require an answer) and thoughts that came to mind...... Why are you giving her advice? I rarely ever give anyone advice. I can tell them what I feel or think or question about a situation, how I would act in that situation, but that is the extent of it. I rarely ever say 'I think you should ______' (I am probably nitpicking the meaning of advice) You seem to be putting more effort in her relationship than she is. I'm thinking it should be the other way around as others have said. To me, it speaks volumes about her real interest in her partner/boyfriend. A pro-active role in understanding the many facets of a person is required. I also think that at times folks have a tendency to pigeon-hole someone. He is much more than a transman. For a relationship to work folks need to focus on the individual rather than the label/id. Seeking general information about trans folks is also a good thing. edited to add cuz I forgot it: I"m wondering why he is in a relationship. It sounds like he has a lot of work to do himself....it is hard to do that in a new relationship __________________ We are everywhere We are different I do not care if resistance is futile I will not assimilate www.butchfemmesocials.com/ Last edited by Toughy; 03-12-2012 at 03:37 PM.

03-12-2012, 03:52 PM	#7
SoftSilver Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: femme Preferred Pronoun?: she Relationship Status: Married Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: rose cottage Posts: 5,594 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 8,948 Thanked 15,896 Times in 4,064 Posts Rep Power*: 21474858	If I had someone who was calling me and crying to me hours at night, I would wonder why they are needing me so much and if I am the one to answer their needs at all. And I would then examine why I am buying into this neediness. What purpose is it serving me?? Frankly, by the way its being described, I think its all overboard, both in the primary relationship, and in the way its being handled outside of the relationship I have friends...with whom I have deeply rich, long term, even profound friendships. When my friends go thru bad times, I am there for them but not when I shouldnt be. Sometimes being a sounding board or a shoulder to cry on is actually detrimental. To both the crier and to the "shoulder". Sometimes what they need isnt me... to personalize it....If my sub had so much of a problem with me and was sobbing about how bad the relationship is over and over again, to someone else, 1) I would want to know why he was still in a relationship with me, since no one makes you a victim unless you put yourself in those positions (I am not talking about abuse here. Abuse is a different matter and thats all about hostage taking) 2) If my sub had no clue about our relationship dynamics and my "label" as a Being, why isnt he investigating, researching, getting involved, etc. so that he can know what loving and respecting me entails..not to mention doing so for himself! 3) If he "loves" me but doesnt know me, then I am gonna really suspect that there isnt love there but neediness. This is a pet peeve of mine..people who proclaim love LONG before it is a true factor. When people do this, it means there is a hole inside them that they want someone else to fill. This, is the ugly D word. Dependency. If I let our relationship continue when there isnt real love established, its not just his fault, its mine too, and so then its on both of our parts and thats called CO-dependency. one more thing Imma gonna end by saying this: those who try to fix other people's relationships, don't. In fact, often they either make it last longer than it should, or sometimes they make it break up sooner than it should, if at all! I am not suggesting we shouldnt be there for friends who need us...but needing us as friends and being needy as a friend, are two separate things...one is about love, the other about dependency. __________________ Pole bachit, a lis chuye. The field sees, the forest hears

03-12-2012, 04:24 PM	#8
TickledPink Member How Do You Identify?: Queer Girly Femme Preferred Pronoun?: Miss Pink Relationship Status: Shacked UP Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: The Holt-Mason Chateau Decherd/I'm a NashVegas Girl! Posts: 1,041 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 586 Thanked 1,996 Times in 606 Posts Rep Power: 9218477	When it comes down to it, the TWO of them will have to figure it out. There is no book, friend, forum, etc that can do that for either of them. Perhaps the journey will be a great growing experience for each! Well-wishes! __________________ It's your book to write. Make it worth reading.

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03-12-2012, 03:11 PM	#2
aishah Member How Do You Identify?: queer stone femme shark baby girl Preferred Pronoun?: she, her, little one Relationship Status: dating myself. Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: dallas, tx Posts: 1,495 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 13,823 Thanked 6,439 Times in 1,288 Posts Rep Power: 21474851	i love what laney said. i wanted to echo that response to the "love" issue - to me, love, at least in a relationship, requires some sort of commitment. it's not enough to get caught up in the honeymoon feelings. if you are in a relationship with someone loving them means being committed at least to being empathetic and compassionate towards them, and to not making them feel disrespected and unsafe (or at least putting in the effort). so - being caught up in the warm fuzzy feelings is awesome, but it seems like there's not a lot of feeling of responsibility to the partner here...and that i find kind of disconcerting.