A straight girl enters the queer world...

[Quintease]

The first time I dated someone trans, I had a real problem acknowledging 'she' was a 'he'. I was a lesbian goddamnit! And lesbians didn't date men.
But I couldn't help myself, he was so amazing that I couldn't stay away.
It didn't help that at the time he was going through a period of discovery himself, so didn't have the confidence to fully come out.

I barely knew anything about trans, so it was invaluable to me that he took the time to talk everything through with me, to answer all of my questions, lend me books and even show me a video. It was an eye-opener which would never have happened had he been the sort to take my ignorance personally.

The second time I dated someone trans I thought I was down with the kids, I thought I knew. Of course I realised how ridiculous that was about a week later, particularly when I remembered that I was a lesbian.
Luckily my husband was happy to talk to me about anything and everything and even argue with me on occasion when our cultures clashed.

1. How important is the full understanding of trans-gender mentality and needs to be a complete partner to someone who is trans?

It's not important. What's important is she care about her partner and try to meet his needs and he do the same. In time she'll either learn on the job or he will terminate the relationship.

I find she bounces back and forth with her pronouns for him as well. Referring to him more as 'her or she' than 'him or he'. This tells me she really doesn't understand, or take this seriously.

She's probably trying to square up the two realities. If she's had a straight life up till now, none of this will fit the world she's been living in for most of her life. In time everything will start to make sense or else he'll get fed up with her and leave.

She leans on me, knowing my history as well, but I find myself at a loss to really 'knock' the information into her, to make her understand him as well as I understand my Daddy.

The two of you have different partners, different relationships. Understanding your relationship isn't necessarily going to help her with her own.

The second part of my issue, is that her lover, is highly emotional, and takes a lot of things really really personal, that aren't meant to be.

If he is not able to be a patience and tolerant educator, than she is not going to learn. Simples. He either needs to grow up or give up. Her 'manipulation' is probably the only way she knows how to defuse the situation. He feels bad, she gets a break.

[DeviantDaddy]

Well said, Quin.

[betenoire]

I guess I'm not clear on what it is about entering into this relationship that automatically "queers" your straight friend? Maybe the relationship "straights" her new boyfriend.

Afterall, gender and sexuality are not the same thing. An FTM may be queer, but he is not queer necessarily.

[Soft*Silver]

when I met my sub, he introduced me to a whole area of gay male sexuality that I had never even heard of. I introduced him to a whole culture of trans that he was unaware of. We both did ALOT of research as we got to know one another.

Learning about Oz when you are from Kansas, helps you date the lion instead of the farm hand you are use to...

[weatherboi]

I have been involved in discussions on this website in particular and have read conversations on the dash site that involved transmen and their responsibilities to themselves, their partners and their communities. It usually ends up in a conversation about our privilege and our responsibility to do more. I have always been ok with examining and owning up to it. Some of us do and some of us don't. This is true for all identities in my experience online. The OP's friend doesn't id as queer and doesnt even involve a transguy from our community so why even bring our(transguys on these forums) shortcomings or not, into it? Why is it that somebody elses struggle becomes an ok time for a member to shine a spot light on that? My proof is me, i am a feminist queer transguy that works hard on his shit. i can't speak for other ftm/transguys but my experience with my peers is some work harder than me. Lack of thread content doesn't equate transguys doing less work than femmes/people that partner up with transfolk, or there is less of an expectation on us, it just means we may process it differently or not.

Just to clarify, for me, because i have dealt with this same issue before, the sweeping generalization lies in the insinuation that lack of thread content somehow equates a lack of responsibility or accountability by transfolk/ftms/transguys on this forum or forums of past.

[BullDog]

Sweeping generalizations? How about phrases like demonizing transguys and butch vs trans? If two femmes happen to observe the same thing is it all of a sudden a femme conspiracy? Femmes against the world? Those are sweeping generalizations and very loaded and divisive language. In my book friends don't treat other friends like that no matter how much they disagree. I hope the matter can be cleared up because I do very much like you and have great respect for you and certainly do consider you a feminist.

I find the conclusions people are making about what gets discussed and what doesn't to be interesting to say the least. I am not going to comment on it any further.

[DeviantDaddy]

Seems the thread has bit busy in my absence. Amazing how discussions can open the door to numerous opinions which in turn lead to more discussions. Thank you all for partaking in this and not only adding your views but also bringing up questions.

As for the butch vs. trans topic - it is disappointing to see that something like this is coming up. It is not our intention to have such topics come up where it seems as though we are trying to box people into groups of hy, he, she, etc. The notion of sweeping generalizations regarding dating, gender and orientation is simply, weak. Every person is different, every dynamic is different and rarely will you find that one couple's journey mirrors another's. There may be similarities but it is not the same for everyone.

When I got involved with kitten, I felt responsible for explaining to her the things that set me apart from cis-men. Because it was important to me that she understood that but she took it upon herself to go a step further, and research the b-f and trans community because she knew that it was something that I am part of. It is simply the way we as individuals feel when going into a relationship. If I were to get involved with someone who had a medical condition - I would research it to better understand it. Many times I have also researched communities, dynamics and interests that someone I was interested in was involved in.

As for the OP - this thread was called a straight girl entering the queer world. Because in her decision to get involved with this man - she has entered into a new terrain. Whether he identifies as heterosexual or queer. She has been questioning her orientation. I recall her coming to me when her interest was sparked and blatantly asking me - "I'm into him, very into him, does this make me a lesbian?"

Obviously it is a question I was not able to answer for her. Such a question is opening a can of worms. But before anyone assumes that labels are something we are trying to pigeon-hole them into, understand that this isn't our intention at all. This is simply a friend who has known nothing but the heterosexual lifestyle, privileges, customs and so forth. So this has taken her for a total head spin.

As for her partner. In my honest opinion, I think he is not stepping up as he should be. But then again, that is due to my own beliefs and sense of responsibility. Everyone is different. But to address some remarks that have been made - no, he doesn't seem to be actively involved in helping, teaching or guiding.

[DaddysKitten]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

She can't learn about him and what he's going through if he's going to deflect all the issues within him onto her because of her curiousity..

I wish both of them luck and you too sounds like you are trying to be a good friend to her..

Thank you very much, Snow.

Originally Posted by stepfordfemmeyyc

From my transguy-loving femme perspective, I don't think your friend is any less straight, nor should is it her duty to be informed--as long as she understands she is dating a man.

I would just like to clarify something, that has completely gotten out of context in this forum. I have never said anything about her identity. The title of this thread simply stated she was stepping out of the norm 'straight' relationship. She is still a straight girl as far as I am concerned, because title isn't important to me. I'm a straight woman, in love with a man. Genders, sexes, this and that means nothing to me. I am not discussing titles, because titles are way too vague in such a broad spectrum of alternatives. I also identify as a queer femme depending on the discussion, and how it is going. When I discuss my man, I'm a straight girl. When it is brought up, and people ask me how I can be 'straight' given the circumstances, I tell them that according to the straight populace, I would be a queer femme. But in our relationship, since he is a MAN to me, and I am his partner/woman/kitten, that I'm just a straight girl.

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

I'm still confused why the OP's friend is being presumed to be queer??

You and me both. I simply stated her issues with the full acceptance of all of this. ID really never came into it until someone else brought it up, unless, as stated above, they assume I was discussing title/ID, versus experience. But then again, other things have more easily been misconstrued. Perhaps I should go with solid statement, and not poetic and unique. 'Straight girl dates transman for first time'. I just like poetry better? *shrugs*


Anyhow, a lot of this has been blown out of proportion, perhaps some were silently offended, and for that I will apologize. But I remember my questions, curiosities, and lack of understanding, very clearly, and it was unnerving. I wanted to know about him, his struggles, the little things about his every day life, especially with him being pre-op and considered in the in-between category of man and woman.

There are a lot of concerns in a relationship of two very different understandings, and I feel, that being ignorant to those things, is lacking the eagerness or desire to truly know EVERY thing about your partner. How can you truly love someone without understanding the tiniest details of what makes them, who they are?

My questions, originally four pages ago, were based on the seeking of information to help her in her journey of learning. For the fact I did not want to be the be all, end all, to her understanding. I was reaching out to understanding, at least for the most part, individuals who might be able to offer some wisdom. For those of you who did offer such, you have my sincere appreciation.