What makes a Butch "Butch"

[LaneyDoll]

Originally Posted by musicman

Nothing MAKES me butch I just am. It's what I have always been. If you put a dress on me I'd still be butch. I'd just be a really bad drag queen.

Musicman

Originally Posted by Cajun_dee

THIS.

It's like asking a tree what makes it a tree.

I agree! I cannot tell you "why" I identify as femme-I just do.

Additionally, I think it is easier to identify with someone based on their energy than it is their wardrobe. Yes, the wardrobe does provide clues but what if the clothes suit the situation more than they do the person? (I used to date a singer who donned what she referred to as "femme drag" to be in plays although she identified as "genderqueer.")

Just my random thinking...

Edit to add:

As far as this, "Can a Butch dress like a Femme and still be butch inside or is that just to weird," I think it is stereotypical to presume that one should present in a way that goes against their personal nature/style just because the world expects them to look a certain way.

[Quintease]

I dated an idiot once who yelled at me that she was too butch to wear a bikini top. I could understand if we lived in a society where women risked being bashed for wearing bikini tops, but we were going to a beach with a bunch of gays, none of whom really cared about ID. She may have thought she was being big and butch, but how comfortable can you be about your ID if you have to rely on rigid clothing rules to get your message across?

[Novelafemme]

Originally Posted by Quintease

I dated an idiot once who yelled at me that she was too butch to wear a bikini top. I could understand if we lived in a society where women risked being bashed for wearing bikini tops, but we were going to a beach with a bunch of gays, none of whom really cared about ID. She may have thought she was being big and butch, but how comfortable can you be about your ID if you have to rely on rigid clothing rules to get your message across?

I love my honey in a bikini...top and bottoms! Of course she played water polo for years so she has those broad swimmers shoulders. I appreciate the rainbow of varieties that butches can come in...ALL people for that matter! To me it is all about respect, both for yourself and others, and checking your judgement at the door.

[Quintease]

I too am a fan of bikini tops. Not that you get to see them much in this impossibly cold country that I'm in.

[starryeyes]

Yesterday when I was driving to work, I was at a stop light. I was looking arous and spotted a cute butch in a jeep. Short crew cut, baseball hat, sweatshirt... Typical bucth presentation. When the light turned green, she put her hands on the steering wheel, and her fake nails were longer and more glittery than mine. For a sec I was like... Maybe she wasn't a "butch"... But then I was like, you go! Be who you wanna be. If you wanna dress up like a femme one night and go out on the town, do it! If you wanna dress up in a suit and tie the next, do it! We only live once and the best part of life of self expression. No one can change who you are inside.

Hugs

[Novelafemme]

Originally Posted by starryeyes

Yesterday when I was driving to work, I was at a stop light. I was looking arous and spotted a cute butch in a jeep. Short crew cut, baseball hat, sweatshirt... Typical bucth presentation. When the light turned green, she put her hands on the steering wheel, and her fake nails were longer and more glittery than mine. For a sec I was like... Maybe she wasn't a "butch"... But then I was like, you go! Be who you wanna be. If you wanna dress up like a femme one night and go out on the town, do it! If you wanna dress up in a suit and tie the next, do it! We only live once and the best part of life of self expression. No one can change who you are inside.

Hugs

I love it!! Gender bending is so fabulous My property manager is a big butch and has long, red, gorgeous nails. I asked her about them once and she said it just feels good to her. 'Nuff said

[thedivahrrrself]

What makes a butch "butch" to me is whether or not he/she/hy ID's that way.

I know a ton of lesbians who wear mens' clothes, sport short hair, maybe even pack once in a while, but they are not "butch", and they generally resent the term.

Butch is that certain je ne sais quoi that cannot be defined, and it is different within each butch person. Some are "soft", most are hard, at least at one point or another , but there is something about them that makes them Butch, and they have usually almost always been or at least felt that way.

They could wear a dress and heels, but, at least in my experience, they usually can't walk for shit. LOL

Butches are like fine chocolates, each one unique, each delicious in their own way.

[Liem]

its not something I wear, its nothing i do
Be gracious
respect
pride
self care
belief
earn respect

[Just_G]

Originally Posted by Quintease

I dated an idiot once who yelled at me that she was too butch to wear a bikini top. I could understand if we lived in a society where women risked being bashed for wearing bikini tops, but we were going to a beach with a bunch of gays, none of whom really cared about ID. She may have thought she was being big and butch, but how comfortable can you be about your ID if you have to rely on rigid clothing rules to get your message across?

Its because people might look and say upon first : She isnt butch...when in fact, she is, but cant make that known to people without having a certain look that she might feel conveys her butchness.

If someone wants to wear a csrtain type of clothing to convey this, then leave them be and let them do what makes them one with how they ID.
Its not about what they where, it is about how what they wear makes them feel. If that makes her an idiot, then I am one proud idiot in all my butchness.
Just my .02

[luv2luvgirls]

I dont know what made me a butch... other than I was just born this way. If my mom put some frilly thing or dress on me as soon as I hit the door to go outside it came off.. I would run the hood neekid rather than wear frilly stuff, thats just how I was. I dont think you can lump us butches in a neat box like that,we have our own tastes and likes about everything *shrugs* even how we like to dress,or what type we are attracted to.

[Corkey]

I have nails most women would kill someone for, hard strong and chip free. Sometimes I let them grow to phenomenal lengths, sometimes I cut them down to nothing. They grow long in 1 week, keeping up is a chore and unless I'm writing a thesis they are pretty much not in the way. It has nothing to do with who I am.

[Parker]

Originally Posted by Corkey

I have nails most women would kill someone for, hard strong and chip free. Sometimes I let them grow to phenomenal lengths, sometimes I cut them down to nothing. They grow long in 1 week, keeping up is a chore and unless I'm writing a thesis they are pretty much not in the way. It has nothing to do with who I am.

Yeah - and I dont keep mine short because I'm butch - they just get in the way and make me crazy so I cut them down to nothing every few days.

[Quintease]

I have never had nails until now. So for most of my lesbian life I have not had nails or nail polish despite being femme. In fact a lesbian twigged me in a straight setting once, purely on the basis of my hands.

I'm femme and I walk like a man apparently. Somehow I can manage this even in heels, which I don't wear any more so I guess I walk like a man all the time now.

My hubby used to have long hair in his previous life, it was the only 'feminine' thing about him. Obviously now it's shortshort, but he still misses his hair sometimes.

Hair, nails, walk, none of it really has a 'gender'. Anyone can 'drink like a man' or 'cry like a girl'. Yet even though our gender attributes are all mixed up, we all still know if we're male or female/ masculine or feminine/ gay or straight. It's strange that we just know, it's strange that we need to have these distinctions. It's an interesting question. What is a butch if it has nothing to with hair, clothing or sex? What is it that defines her and contrasts her to a femme? I wish I knew the answer to that.

[Dude]

what makes a decent human being
that's the kind of thread that would feel new to me.
there may suddenly be a "need" to start a femme version of this thread
sigh (maybe there already is one?)

we all have our own types we are attracted to
and hopefully they evolve as we do (hopefully)
period.
the end.

I think threads like this set up more of a competition (undercurrent) amongst each other.
At the end of the day Who cares how you present ,just be ok with yourself ( an inside job )
Insecurities ,jealousy and in fighting. I've seen it, felt it and know it's true.
I could give a fuck who you (the general you) are dating ,because guess what, I don't want her.
That's not how I roll or the kind of human being I am.

I can count the butch friends I have on one hand.(after many years online
and in real life)
They are all secure in themselves and know I am not a threat to their relationships or "butch-hood" <eyeroll>
I could give a fuck what they wear swimming and would not diss them.
There is no weird (frat boy) butch posturing... I hate that more than anything. <puke>
Or leg lifting , a trait I've seen in all genders <ew>

I have (in my many years) been attracted to femme's with short nails and short hair <gasp>
brains, compassion, integrity and humor are hot.
("be about something")
It takes more than getting your nails done and hairs did to keep me interested. call me crazy
I have many a gay man crush based of their honesty first and their pretty eyes or a nice ass second.
Real allies in this life? I dig them. period.
on a bit of a roll today
pardon me

[~ocean]

"applauds" you Dude, very well said

[SweetJane]

Being butch or femme is not a matter of outward accoutrements (dress, hair, nails). And sometimes it isn't even a matter of self-identity. It is truly a matter of energy.

Many butches are indeed female-bodied; others find themselves along a range of trans-expression (whether they are still female-bodied or not). All of them generate male energy, whether in a swagger, a smirk, a look, a presence. It is an intrinsic part of their very core.

Put one of them in a dress or red nails. They're still butch.

For me, though, to see their delicious maleness transposed over a fleeting whisper of femaleness that sometimes passes across their faces is...... well....swoonable. It is a soft expression of vulnerability within a strong persona.

Damn...

[macele]

my first recalls of being emotionally attracted to women were teachers in 3rd and 5th grades. one teacher was sweet. the other was strict. it was about the way they treated me with a feminine way of affection and caring. these were some the first feelings that i had, .. knowing but unknowing to an extent, ... that i am a lesbian.

i've never changed a tire or changed the oil. i like sundresses. i'm quiet, ... i don't make a scene. what i do in life is preference. what we like to do or what we like to wear/appearance or how we act, ... varies. we are individuals. our personalities are attracted to what feels natural, at ease. or simply what we think makes us look good. whatever gets the groove on. choice and natural meet up to form indiviualism.

it's true, energy differentiates butch and femme. i am a lesbian butch. i was born with some masculine traits. not entirely. for example, i am an emotional person. the tears roll so easy. that's not thought of as masculine. a butch is a female with some maleness about her. just a woman with a bit of butchiness. and with that said, i'm under the impression that some femmes like it. that's a good deal from where i am.

[firegal]

Originally Posted by Dude

what makes a decent human being
that's the kind of thread that would feel new to me.
there may suddenly be a "need" to start a femme version of this thread
sigh (maybe there already is one?)

we all have our own types we are attracted to
and hopefully they evolve as we do (hopefully)
period.
the end.

I think threads like this set up more of a competition (undercurrent) amongst each other.
At the end of the day Who cares how you present ,just be ok with yourself ( an inside job )
Insecurities ,jealousy and in fighting. I've seen it, felt it and know it's true.
I could give a fuck who you (the general you) are dating ,because guess what, I don't want her.
That's not how I roll or the kind of human being I am.

I can count the butch friends I have on one hand.(after many years online
and in real life)
They are all secure in themselves and know I am not a threat to their relationships or "butch-hood" <eyeroll>
I could give a fuck what they wear swimming and would not diss them.
There is no weird (frat boy) butch posturing... I hate that more than anything. <puke>
Or leg lifting , a trait I've seen in all genders <ew>

I have (in my many years) been attracted to femme's with short nails and short hair <gasp>
brains, compassion, integrity and humor are hot.
("be about something")
It takes more than getting your nails done and hairs did to keep me interested. call me crazy
I have many a gay man crush based of their honesty first and their pretty eyes or a nice ass second.
Real allies in this life? I dig them. period.
on a bit of a roll today
pardon me

I hear you and agree on many of your statements. Ive had to remind myself that alot of these threads even amongst the controversy or undertones have folks reading/looking at them some of whom are brand spanking new to this site.Some of them growing,learning,maturing,absorbing.Who maybe need to hear both sides and/or need to hear someone else thoughts challenged.

I get reminded regularly that "its not always about you' which helps me realize somebody else may benefit from this convo.

[Dude]

Originally Posted by firegal

I hear you and agree on many of your statements. Ive had to remind myself that alot of these threads even amongst the controversy or undertones have folks reading/looking at them some of whom are brand spanking new to this site.Some of them growing,learning,maturing,absorbing.Who maybe need to hear both sides and/or need to hear someone else thoughts challenged.

I get reminded regularly that "its not always about you' which helps me realize somebody else may benefit from this convo.

I guess I should have been more clear with my post as I did not
mean any offense to the Original Post.
I do get there are people here of all ages and growing processes.
My post was not meant to minimize anyone but just an observation
I've had over the years.
I could almost bet in a day or so a "gold star butch" will appear who
is the greatest butch of all ( in their own mind) and I think that
kind of posturing is gross.
I like to think someone might get some comfort from what old goats have
to say as well.
I'm not trying to shut down the conversation at all, in fact.
I like to think there is room for everyone here and I have earned my seat here
as well, thanks.

[rande]

Some Butches feel ok "cross dressing," some don't. What makes a Butch butch is who they are, how they are within their own head and how they express that to the outside world.
Some use clothing as part of that presentation. In some cases it is ingrained deep enough to be beyond presentation....more part of the persona.

I feel much more comfortable in male attire. With the exception of the binder, I wear everything from the Men's department. And since the binder is kinda home-made, I guess that's "male attire" too.

But I am Butch because I feel the masculine energy surging inside me...undeniable....vivid. And because of how this energy is carried on into the outside world.

If I ever had to wear a dress, it would be long, loose and more like a robe...I'm not comfortable accentuating my "female" form. But that's just me.