Bravehearts: FTMs who cannot or choose not to medically transition

[Greyson]

Originally Posted by AtLastHome

No, don't see a call-out at all. or, mean-spirited in any way.

Actually, we are in agreement as to the fluidity of gender as well as differing modifications one might want to (or not) made. And there is the semantics tangle, too. I would use transcend rather than transgress or transition. Transsexual means this to me as well. Transcending (going beyond) the traditional gender binary. For me, within a 3rd gendered context, it is about this for many of us. What I feel happens often is that the 3rd gendered are lumped into some form of transition when that is not what is going on at all. Transgender theory/studies (along withTranssexuality constructs) seems like something that can promote understanding and hopefully, enlightenment. Especially for kids that fall somewhere on the gender spectrum and not within the traditional gender binary.

In thinking about body modification, hormone treatment and gender reassignment of birth records and name changes, I feel like this is as diverse as the individuals embarking on some or all of these journeys. I have listened both professionally and as a friend to these personal stories for 35 years now. I honestly can't say that I could put any kind of these thoughts into any kind of specific grouping. All are different in significant and personal ways.

Something that occurs to me as well is about butches that desire or have top surgery done and it really not being different overall than why women have done cosmetic breast surgery forever - whether its reduction or augmentation. It seems like it is simply about personal body alignment. Sure, for many, it is part of transitioning in some form than other people identifying along the gender spectrum.

Something else that comes up for me related to all of this is the almost non-existant conversations about MtF's. But, I guess this is for another thread! Just feels like we don't embrace the significance in gender theory of feminine transcendance in re-shaping the binary. There are lots of these same gender variables that relates to femmes as well. To me, it touches everyone.

Make sense?

Gender is both complex and fascinating and sometimes I wonder if I will ever have a complete understanding of it!

Also, I have to wonder if some of my sensitivity about the 3rd-gendered being relegated to trans status isn't more deeply related to my own negative dealings with non-queer lesbians that are transphopic and not related to this community at all.

Post Script- glad to see the actual definitions concerning gender posted!

Thanks for attempting to offer more clarification. All of this is very interesting stuff. I guess perhaps this discussion should go into another thread. ( I do not believe that all posts should be specific to the initial post starting the thread. But not all feel this way.)

I think the notion that perhaps some of your thinking could be related to some transphobic stuff is a very brave statement to make. Yet, shows you are open to thinking, exploring, learning, relearning. Thanks.

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by Greyson

Thanks for attempting to offer more clarification. All of this is very interesting stuff. I guess perhaps this discussion should go into another thread. ( I do not believe that all posts should be specific to the initial post starting the thread. But not all feel this way.)

I think the notion that perhaps some of your thinking could be related to some transphobic stuff is a very brave statement to make. Yet, shows you are open to thinking, exploring, learning, relearning. Thanks.

Have to catch-up with the newer posts... about thread intent and this discussion. No, don't want to derail.

The statements about the transphobic lesbians were about me getting very negative stuff from non-queer lesbians (mainly a couple across the street from me) about my being a butch and their mega-jump to I must be trans. Also, they are just plain transphobic (I always get an upset stomach when having trans friends over and they are around). But, I think we all have internalized homo, trans phobic histories. And yes, I have to look at what I am sensitive about here.

[Hack]

I find it interesting to see a thread that is about the courage not to transition, when in my own personal circumstance, I choose not to based on apprehension. My main worry being the impact on my career, which is a very high visibility job in the state where I live. A state, I may add, that is not exactly seen as cutting edge for gender expression/gay rights/queer rights.

Professionally, I use my female name. In the rest of my life, I go by Jake. I've lived in this skin, or sometimes this bubble, my entire life. I'm used to it. I know the landscape of my life better than anyone. I've been inconvenienced because of how I choose to live, but what is more important to me is that I made my choice for me.

And I think everyone in this community -- queer, trans, butch, femme -- is brave. In my opinion, some of the bravest people in this community are the femmes who stand alongside us, and in those lucky cases, who love us. As we are. As we choose to be. As we evolve. As we traverse the landscape of gender fluidity. They are the members of this community who have my utmost respect. And I also respect anyone who lives their life on their terms, according to their own code.

Jake

[theoddz]

Originally Posted by Hack

I find it interesting to see a thread that is about the courage not to transition, when in my own personal circumstance, I choose not to based on apprehension. My main worry being the impact on my career, which is a very high visibility job in the state where I live. A state, I may add, that is not exactly seen as cutting edge for gender expression/gay rights/queer rights.

Professionally, I use my female name. In the rest of my life, I go by Jake. I've lived in this skin, or sometimes this bubble, my entire life. I'm used to it. I know the landscape of my life better than anyone. I've been inconvenienced because of how I choose to live, but what is more important to me is that I made my choice for me.

And I think everyone in this community -- queer, trans, butch, femme -- is brave. In my opinion, some of the bravest people in this community are the femmes who stand alongside us, and in those lucky cases, who love us. As we are. As we choose to be. As we evolve. As we traverse the landscape of gender fluidity. They are the members of this community who have my utmost respect. And I also respect anyone who lives their life on their terms, according to their own code.

Jake

Jake, I also echo your sentiments here about the Ladies who stand by us being so very worthy of our highest respects and recognition. What many don't know is that these Ladies go through their own "transitions" and "journeys" to become who they are. This is a pretty significant thing, yet it's not widely known or often recognized because the part that always seems to be more "visible" (for lack of a better word) is the journey of the transman. Let me tell you, some/many of these women go through a hell of a transition themselves, towards finding out and then living who THEY are. They don't need us to define who they are.....that is THEIR journey, and every bit a part of who they are.

Thank you, Ladies.

~Theo~

[Julien]

Originally Posted by theoddz

Jake, I also echo your sentiments here about the Ladies who stand by us being so very worthy of our highest respects and recognition. What many don't know is that these Ladies go through their own "transitions" and "journeys" to become who they are. This is a pretty significant thing, yet it's not widely known or often recognized because the part that always seems to be more "visible" (for lack of a better word) is the journey of the transman. Let me tell you, some/many of these women go through a hell of a transition themselves, towards finding out and then living who THEY are. They don't need us to define who they are.....that is THEIR journey, and every bit a part of who they are.

Thank you, Ladies.

~Theo~

Theo,
thank you for recognizing the Ladies in our lives. I often wondered and have asked how do our Ladies identify themselves once we transition. I for one don't want them to lose touch with an important part of themselves. I, myself, am attracted to Queer Femme women. I have read that lesbian, bisexual women are not totally supportive the the transgendered person. I personally hope that is not true across the board. I am fortunate that I have found someone who is comfortable with her identity and accepts me for who I am and ultimately will become. I am in transition and will not do a complete FTM. I guess I am what one might call gender queer. I can pass as a male at times or at least be mistaken for a male. I do not pass all the time. I think that being in constant transition is taxing in some ways. But I'm mindful of how I interact with others and how I present myself. I feel the most comfortable with those who know I'm in transition. I am proud to be a transgendered person.