Friends of Bill W.

[Toughy]

I really wish this to be a place where everyone comes and shares.

We Agnostics.
Not everyone has a spiritual experience.
Not everyone believes in a higher power.
It is a power greater than ourselves.
Acceptance is the answer. And by not accepting people that don't have that experience or don't believe in God...is actually...well, i consider that limited and closed minded. I don't think that many people realize how they frighten people away from the rooms because of the God thing. God is written all over the book and in the steps so that is enough for some people to handle.
It is funny...i pray for them to see the light...
And i have to accept them.

I love the imperceptible sharp intake of breath when someone even voices that there might be ways to stay clean and sober other than the fellowships - shock, horror! Devilment makes me utter such at times

There has always been and will always be newcomers who will run screaming for the hills the minute a Higher Power or God is mentioned, they're looking for a excuse to run anyway, we can but hope that the seed was sown before they run.

Our program is there for everyone who has this disease we call addiction. The belief in a higher power is the cornerstone for all that follows, BUT....It is god as WE understand him. It is NOT....YOUR....general you's, version. It is a very personal thing and many struggle greatly to accept this concept so they can get on with the deal of working the steps.

Over the past month I've seen at least 12 newbies run, and I mean RUN out the doors after hearing these messages. What do I do? I run after them. And try to explain how it works for ME. But after sitting for 20 or so minutes in a room where the majority message is....you must do this, this way or you will fail....I'm just one more crazy person stalking them out of the room. An active addict is not going to have the ability to sort all this out. Remember how crazy headed you were when you first started. I didn't have a rational thought for 4 years for goodness sake. So how can these poor people reason out what I'm trying to say to them?

I read this thread fairly regularly. The above posts are about folks who are not doing well with the faith-based program of AA. The basic tenant of AA is a spiritual awakening is required for sobriety and the concept of powerlessness.

Perhaps those folks who leave AA (that is a very large number according to AA's own data) do not feel a spiritual awakening is needed/required for sobriety. There are secular programs out there. Secular meaning a spiritual awakening is NOT required for sobriety. Most secular programs do not have the powerlessness concept either.

If I am not mistaken, the first secular group started was 'Women for Sobriety, Inc' http://womenforsobriety.org . Another secular group is LifeRing Secular Recovery www.lifering.org I know that LifeRing and Women for Sobriety do not have the concept of powerlessness in their programs.

Maybe instead of trying to get them to come back in AA you might suggest they try a secular program. Or you could suggest they try LifeRing (or Women for Sobriety) plus AA.

Just some thoughts that have been running through my head after reading the above posts.